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Family Forum / Parenting / Adoption / September 2004Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum
Can I drop off my grandma too? http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/editorials/stories/MYSA091304.06B.baby moses2ed.6d8a6839.html Editorial: To help older children, extend Baby Moses law Web Posted: 09/13/2004 12:00 AM CDT San Antonio Express-News The parents of an 11-month-old boy abandoned at a local fire station last month probably won't face criminal charges — and they shouldn't. They obviously could not or did not want to care for the child, so they turned him over to someone they thought would protect his best interests. The boy's father and another man dropped off the child with a bag packed with diapers, food and a toy at a fire station on Gembler Road. Because of his age, the toddler was not covered by the Baby Moses law, which allows parents to abandon infants less than 60 days old at designated locations without criminal prosecution. But he should have been. After all, he was uninjured and left in a safe place. It is far better for a child to be abandoned at a designated location — in this case, with trained medical personnel — than to enter the child welfare system as a result of abuse or neglect. In the best of all possible worlds, unwanted children would be placed for adoption at birth, but that does not always happen. Children often undergo years of suffering, abuse and neglect before the state removes them from dysfunctional families. Family court dockets are overcrowded with children taken into emergency custody by the state. The purpose of the Baby Moses law was to reduce the number of newborns tossed in Dumpsters or abandoned in unsafe places. It should be expanded. This is not the first time a parent has tried use the law to abandon an older child in San Antonio. Last summer, a 23-year-old mom tried to leave her 2-year-old son with firefighters. She was turned down because of the child's age. Clearly, there is a need for a system that allows parents to easily and safely relinquish custody of older children they cannot care for without fear of prosecution. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > Can I drop off my grandma too? > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > It is far better for a child to be abandoned at a designated location - in > this case, with trained medical personnel - than to enter the child welfare > system as a result of abuse or neglect. Since when are these the only two options available to parents who can't care for their children? What is wrong with these people who only see two options when confronted with the problem of unwanted children. Are they that narrowly focused when confronted with problems in their own lives? Hmm I really hate my job. I guess the only two options are to continue working there or kill myself. Hmmm I don't think I love my husband any more. I guess the only two options are stay married or kill him. Hmmm I can't care for my children any more. I guess the only two options are abuse them or abandon them. > In the best of all possible worlds, unwanted children would be placed for > adoption at birth, but that does not always happen. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Clearly, there is a need for a system that allows parents to easily You betcha. Getting rid of your kid should be as "easy" as getting rid your old clothes at Goodwill. and safely > relinquish custody of older children they cannot care for without fear of > prosecution. Since when have parents who voluntarily relinquish their parental rights been prosecuted? Kathy 1 "kat" <katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com> wrote > Since when have parents who voluntarily relinquish their parental rights > been prosecuted? > > Kathy 1 I don't think they are. But from years of reading this ng, I think the issue is that the parents remain financially responsible for whatever arrangement is put in place -- for instance, foster care -- unless they are unable to pay. Since this is likely to be considerably more expensive than raising the child at home, this is not an option most troubled parents seem willing to consider. I suppose if they could find someone willing to take on that responsibility -- i.e. adoption, then there would be no problem. Perhaps adoption agencies should put out ads for toddlers, not just newborns. OTOH, the person trying to "haven" the kid may have been trying to put it out of harm's way, if there was an abusive family member they didn't want to turn in. Without going through the rather visible process of relinquishing the child. Who knows? A lot of people have no good way to analyze things. They operate on poor information and sometimes, a lot of emotional and financial pressure. Rupa > > Since when have parents who voluntarily relinquish their parental rights > > been prosecuted? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > arrangement is put in place -- for instance, foster care -- unless > they are unable to pay. If they terminate their rights I don't think they are financially responsible for foster care or adoption related expenses. What about border babies? Do they go after the parents for money if they terminate their rights? Since this is likely to be considerably more > expensive than raising the child at home, this is not an option most > troubled parents seem willing to consider. Are they responsible financially though if they terminate their parental rights? Why would that be any different than if they terminated their rights to make way for the child to be adopted? > I suppose if they could find someone willing to take on that > responsibility -- i.e. adoption, then there would be no problem. If the child is in the care of CPS due to the parents terminating their parental rights wouldn't that be the same thing? The child is now availabel for adoption. > Perhaps adoption agencies should put out ads for toddlers, not just > newborns. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > didn't want to turn in. Without going through the rather visible > process of relinquishing the child. Nothing if more "visible" than a two year old who suddenly "disappears" from a family! Kathy 1 > > > Since when have parents who voluntarily relinquish their parental rights > > > been prosecuted? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > babies? Do they go after the parents for money if they terminate their > rights? I don't think they go after them. Marley many years ago when I was a caseworker I had a woman who desperately wanted to stay on medicaid as she did not have to do any paperwork, she just showed her card. She was eligible for medicare but that involved doing paperwork to compute her spenddown. I wonder if this abandoning kids at "safe havens" isn't the same sort of thing. If someone chooses to give up thier child for adoption isn't there usually some sort of paperwork done? Another question, are parental rights automatically severed with abandoned kids? If the kid is dumped by one parent without the knowledge of the other, what then? It seems that if you are going to bring kids into this world you should take some level of responsibility and simply dropping the kid off at some designated collection point ain't it. I'll put my soapbox away and go back to sitting quietly in the corner again. Raymond > > > > Since when have parents who voluntarily relinquish their parental > rights [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Marley >many years ago when I was a caseworker I had a woman who desperately wanted >to stay on medicaid as she did not have to do any paperwork, she just showed >her card. She was eligible for medicare but that involved doing paperwork to >compute her spenddown. I wonder if this abandoning kids at "safe havens" >isn't the same sort of thing. The easy way out of the problem.. A decision she may regret for the rest of her life. >If someone chooses to give up thier child for >adoption isn't there usually some sort of paperwork done? Another question, >are parental rights automatically severed with abandoned kids? If the kid >is dumped by one parent without the knowledge of the other, what then? In North Dakota a person has one year to safe haven the child.. One year.. South Dakota is six months.. (unless things have changed) > It >seems that if you are going to bring kids into this world you should take >some level of responsibility and simply dropping the kid off at some >designated collection point ain't it. Yes! Its horrible.. Its an insult to women who have relinquished properly.. Or have done the responsible thing.. Its an insult to many.. No respect and no help for the one most in need of it.. >I'll put my soapbox away and go back >to sitting quietly in the corner again. > >Raymond Oh Raymond can I come and sit next to you.. Jackie Jackie: If you don't mind a cynical old curmugeon who is not above talking to himself, by all means drag your seat over to my quiet little corner. Raymond > >many years ago when I was a caseworker I had a woman who desperately wanted > >to stay on medicaid as she did not have to do any paperwork, she just showed [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Jackie >Jackie: > >If you don't mind a cynical old curmugeon who is not above talking to >himself, by all means drag your seat over to my quiet little corner. > >Raymond The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. I tend to piss some people off.. Who knows why? Your name.. I did not name my bson.. Did not think it was right.. The women (foster mom) named him Raymond (in Florida (1965) the babies had to go to three months foster care).. I have lived with that name for a lot of my life.. But when bson contacted he had never heard that name.. He had a bunch of other names.. Weird.. But it is very nice to sit with someone named Raymond.. Talking to oneself is accepted.. Jackie >> >many years ago when I was a caseworker I had a woman who desperately >wanted [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >> Jackie >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. >I tend to piss some people off.. Back one day, and already a victim.. >Who knows why? oh brother.. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown I guess I only have a small inkling of some of the interpersonal differences between members of this group so please understand if I do not take sides. Life is too short to spend much of it drawing lines in the sand. Raymond > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum > >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" > -----Unknown >I guess I only have a small inkling of some of the interpersonal differences >between members of this group so please understand if I do not take sides. >Life is too short to spend much of it drawing lines in the sand. > >Raymond > Umm...I hope you fit Jackie's model of the ideal adoptee who only dotes on his birthmother and has little more than a passing interest the rest of his natural family, if so you'll be cosey in that 'quiet little corner' with her. A strong believe that all adoption is slavery, or another Holocaust even, and that the USA is the pit of all evil, should help you get along just fine with Jackie as well, but won't endear you to most of us who have more realistic views on adoption and what's right and wrong with it, Dian excepted of course. Robin Robin: I have little interest in endearing myself with anyone nor do I wish to antagonize anyone. I was abandoned, adopted, raised by good people, have kids, grandkids and a pretty good life. I have only known one set of parents. I have been working on finding out who I am. Sadly I was born in a state that feels it must protect adoptees fom thier own history. I was also adopted in a state with the same wierd sort of laws. As I have posted before, I know where all the information is, I simply have not figured out how to get it free. I have no great need to be reunited and this is rather mute anyway since I cannot gain acces to the records which would allow me to find out if either parent is even alive at this time. We are all different with different stories to tell. Merely because I do not understand the anger or bitterness of another person does not make them wrong. I should also point out that I am a little dumb with this i'net stuff. For all I know all the posts on this newsgroup could be coming from one or two people using different aliases. I simply visit to learn and maybe rub elbows with others that have similar backgrounds. Raymond > >I guess I only have a small inkling of some of the interpersonal differences > >between members of this group so please understand if I do not take sides. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Robin >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >parents. I have been working on finding out who I am. Sadly I was born in a >state that feels it must protect adoptees fom thier own history. As were adoptees in 45 other states. I was also >adopted in a state with the same wierd sort of laws. As I have posted >before, I know where all the information is, I simply have not figured out >how to get it free. Why does it have to be free? I mean, ideally, that would be great, but if it's just the fact that you need to pay to get it, why not just pay? Is the fee prohibitive, or is it the principle of the thing? >I have no great need to be reunited and this is rather >mute anyway since I cannot gain acces to the records which would allow me to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Raymond Actually all the posts in this newsgroup are generated by one person. Deer. We are ALL Deer. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown Dear ALL deer: No, it is not a matter of money. I have already invested a fair amount on this venture but rather of people who are much smarter than me protecting me and my birthparents from some horrible fate. If it were only money this search would be done. Thanks for getting back to me and be advised it will soon be deer season here. ;-} Raymond > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum > >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" > -----Unknown >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Raymond Thanks for clarifying. I didn't understand the "free" reference. Have you tried to petition the court? After 4 years, I finally did it and found my bfamily 2 years ago. P.S. I think Rupa is Deer this week. LOL ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown I have done much more than petition the court. I will spare you the details as it fills a four inch thick binder other than to say I ain't done yet. Is my foggy old brain playing tricks on me or is there really a bit of happy insanity in this group? That is not a bad thing. Raymond > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum > >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" > -----Unknown >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Raymond We all suffer from ACS. It's inevitable. LOL ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown Raymond I am backing off now.. Sorry I got you involved.. Jackie >Raymond I am backing off now.. Sorry I got you involved.. > >Jackie I doubt Raymond has been dragged into anything--he knows how to handle himself with dignity and aplomb. However, it's probably best that you go back to simply playing cheerleader at adoption.com until you can grasp exactly why you piss the people here off. Nancy >>Raymond I am backing off now.. Sorry I got you involved.. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Nancy There are times when a cheerleader is all that is required.. And Patty.. If showing my anger has brought me to this.. I accept it.. These folks are folks I do not want to know.. I will follow the ones who have left before me... And I will not slam the door.. Jackie >>>Raymond I am backing off now.. Sorry I got you involved.. >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > These folks are folks I do not want to know.. I will follow the ones > who have left before me... And I will not slam the door.. Um, what?  Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > >>Raymond I am backing off now.. Sorry I got you involved.. > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And Patty.. If showing my anger has brought me to this.. I accept > it.. Anger can be beneficial if used constructively. You don't appear to use it constructively though. > These folks are folks I do not want to know.. That's a good thing (as Martha would say). I dare say the feeling is mutual. I will follow the ones > who have left before me... And I will not slam the door.. Does that make a difference? Kathy 1 -- GET A COLONOSCOPY: Don't Die of Embarassment > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > So what? http://Go_f.ck_yourself_Jackie@who_cares.harritt.net << http://Go_f.ck_yourself_Jackie@who_cares.harritt.net >> LOL. Did you get a new webcam, or what? whoever ----------------------------------------------- that's the "C-for-coffee" sign, right? ><< http://Go_f.ck_yourself_Jackie@who_cares.harritt.net >> > >LOL. Did you get a new webcam, or what? > > Nah, that was just a one off short-term video message to Jackie. I'm not really a webcam fan, I probably unconsciously scratch and pick my nose too much, bound to forget that I'm being watched, but they can be useful sometimes. BTW did you notice that when Jackie first joined forums.adoption.com she used to use a crow as her avatar? Robin >I doubt Raymond has been dragged into anything--he knows how >to handle himself with dignity and aplomb. Of course. He's a Vulcan. whoever ------------------------------------ only half-caf, myself Okay, who made the Vulcan connection?? That is a story in it's own right. Raymond > >I doubt Raymond has been dragged into anything--he knows how > >to handle himself with dignity and aplomb. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ------------------------------------ > only half-caf, myself >Okay, who made the Vulcan connection?? That is a story in it's own right. No big leap of reason involved; I googled you. But in accordance with alt.adoption's long tradition of off-topicism, I'm sure a number of us would be happy to hear the story of how you became Sylak the Vulcan. And while we're chatting, did you ever find out who owned those buildings you were asking about? Were you found on the doorstep of the one in Manhattan? Your adoption story seems unusually interesting. (For the cynical, I am not being sarcastic.) We could use a few more Vulcans in this newsgroup. whoever ------------------------------------------ live long and drink lots of coffee Good heavens, I've been Googled. The Vulcan story would take an evening and a six pack or two to get through. I don't think using bandwidth here is really appropriate. As for the building I was looking for, I assume you are referring to the one in Miami, that was one of my b-dads addresses just after WWII. As to the question of my being left on a doorstep, almost but not quite. Actually I was left with some people my b-mom rented a room from in NYC. She simply went out one day and never came back. The folks I was left with apparently knew she wasn't coming back as they turned me over to NYPD the same day. I may have also tried checking on that address. I did locate it on a map. My situation does seem a little different from most but the issues are pretty much the same. I would like to know who I am but legally I am not allowed to know. I am far from done. Raymond >Good heavens, I've been Googled. It can happen to anyone. >The Vulcan story would take an evening and a six pack or two to get >through. I don't think using bandwidth here is really appropriate. Believe me, in this newsgroup, nothing could be more appropriate, especially if Christopher Walken figures in it somewhere. >As for the building I was looking for, I assume you are >referring to the one in Miami, No, the one in Manhattan. West 27th Street, I think you said elsewhere? Is that where you were left? Is the building still standing, and if so, have you been there? Or is that the place you say you've located on a map? I once visited the "Maternity Home and Infant Asylum" from which I was adopted. The building was still open though no longer used for that purpose. Many traces remained of its former function. It was fascinating -- tangible evidence that I really came from somewhere and wasn't just drawn up on paper. >My situation does seem a little different from most but the issues are >pretty much the same. I would like to know who I am but legally I am not >allowed to know. I am far from done. I imagine the emotional issues may differ from those of someone whose mother was in a maternity home or someone who was taken into foster care because of neglect. Well, maybe more like the latter. But you are correct that the legal issues are similar. It's ludicrous that a grown taxpayer can't receive his own records merely because the state, many years ago, pretended to turn him from one person into another. It's like transsubstantiation or some damned thing. whoever --------------------------------------------- into transcaffeination I had looked up several addresses. I have not been to visit any of them as yet. I simply don't have the time a this point in my life to go running around checking out items I have not yet verified. The NYC address is correct, and yes, I believe that is where I was left BUT there are 5 boroughs (counties) in NYC and I believe more than one of the address I had been looking for. In other words the actual location could be in one of the other four boroughs. I need to verify which NYPD precinct got the call to figure which part of NYC it was. When things in my life slow down a bit I plan to visit all of the places I have identified as holding different bits of my life. Perhaps a personal visit will shake loose information that correspondence has not. To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? Raymond >snip > To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? WHAT?!? Blasphemy! :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >>snip >> To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DEMAND .... A.... SACRIFICE!!!!!! Who is Christopher Walken, indeed???!!!! deer...the original >>>snip >>> To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Who is Christopher Walken, indeed???!!!! I knew you'd flip your wiglet when you read that :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Who's head are your planning to remove, pray tell? If it is me then it would be off with HIS head. I honestly do not know who this person is. I just don't watch much TV or movies I am afraid. I am willing to be enlightened. Raymond > >>snip > >> To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > deer...the original >If it is me then it >would be off with HIS head. I honestly do not know who this person is. I >just don't watch much TV or movies I am afraid. I am willing to be >enlightened. and you call yourself an adoptee.... sheesh.... someone else will have to explain who Christopher Walken is to this poor misled *poser* adoptee... I am just too....well....too traumatized to do anything else tonight except perhaps rock quietly in a corner... How do we expect to EVER have any possibility of open records or equal rights for adoptees if we have people claiming to be adoptees saying things like... Who is Christopher Walken? I mean, we might as well just go back to 1959 at this point. I am truly shocked. deer...the original I think I am beginning to see my problem. I do not follow the politics of adoption and I simply do not remember names anyway. I have quietly been fighting my own little battle here for many years utterly ignorant of the larger battles outside my little world. This is one of the reasons I have ventured into this realm (alt.adoption) of rapscallions. I express no disrespect, only my own ignorance. Raymond Raymond attempts to explain how anyone on this earth could ask "Who is Christopher Walken": >I think I am beginning to see my problem. I do not follow the politics of >adoption and I simply do not remember names anyway. I have quietly been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Raymond Raymond, some people here are funnin' with ya. Did you see the movie "Deerhunter" back in the early eighties? Christopher Walken met a bad end in a game of Russian Roulette. http://www.ojai.net/swanson/ P2P No, I did not see the movie you referenced. I really don't do movies. Thus far Mr Walken has been described as the "patron saint of AA" and as the "mascot of AA". I think I have finally got the idea that this gentleman has been instumental in some very positive ways in helping adoptees. Thanks for the information. Raymond > Raymond attempts to explain how anyone on this earth could ask "Who is > Christopher Walken": [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > P2P > I think I have finally got the idea that this gentleman has >been instumental in some very positive ways in helping adoptees. Yes, Raymond he has. If it were not for Mr Walken, I would not even be an adoptee. deer the ever grateful deer...the original > > I think I have finally got the idea that this gentleman has > >been instumental in some very positive ways in helping adoptees. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > deer > the ever gratefu You mean....??????? Marley > deer...the original It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am sorry but I do not know who Christopher Walken is. I really don't! Raymond > >snip > > To be continued. Ummm, who is Christopher Walken? > > WHAT?!? Blasphemy! :) > It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am > sorry > but I do not know who Christopher Walken is. I really don't! > > Raymond Hon, I'm sorry, but I simply have to ask where you're from and how old you are :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Robyn: Suffice it to say I am over 50 and live in northern Vermont. Vermont is that little New England state that sits between Massachusetts and Quebec. I rarely watch the popular media as I have little faith in thier reporting. I also watch very little TV and never go to movies. I also know nothing about sports.I just don't have time for it. Why is this such an issue? Raymond > > It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am > > sorry [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hon, I'm sorry, but I simply have to ask where you're from and how old you > are :) > Robyn: > > Suffice it to say I am over 50 and live in northern Vermont. Vermont is > that > little New England state that sits between Massachusetts and Quebec. I know, dear. I don't live that far away (New Jersey) and am well aware where Vermont is located. Heck, I've even been there :) I > rarely watch the popular media as I have little faith in thier reporting. > I > also watch very little TV and never go to movies. I also know nothing > about > sports.I just don't have time for it. Why is this such an issue? LOL, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Christopher Walken is a very popular movie actor and a favorite of many of the regulars here. It's just hard to imagine that you hadn't heard of him. No biggee. Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Robyn: Just for the record, my knickers have never been in a twist :-}.Thanks to the good natured responses from members of this forum I now have a pretty good idea of who Mr Walken is. From what I have been told it would seem to me it is a biggie. I need to remember to take notes. Raymond PS: may I ask to which part of Vermont you have been to? > > Robyn: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > popular movie actor and a favorite of many of the regulars here. It's just > hard to imagine that you hadn't heard of him. No biggee. >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Raymond LOL Raymond, a lot of stuff here is tongue in cheek. You'll be a newbie until you've been here 6 years. I've got 6 months to go and then I'm an old-timer. Just go with the flow and don't take everything so literally. ;-) ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >>From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > old-timer. > Just go with the flow and don't take everything so literally. ;-) Damn, I've got three years to go :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > Robyn: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > PS: may I ask to which part of Vermont you have been to? Afraid I don't remember - It was over 20 years ago. Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >Robyn: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I have to say, if someone put whole chart of actors up on the wall and asked me to point at Christopher Walken, I couldn't. Perhaps it's a cultural thing with me, what with being British and never going to see them new fangled talkies (my adoptive family really were a bit like that). Robin >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Robin Harritt robin@not.never.ever [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Robin Ok, now it's your turn to be voted off the island. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >Robyn: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Raymond Walken is the patron saint of alt.adoption Julia >> > It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am >> > sorry [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Hon, I'm sorry, but I simply have to ask where you're from and how old you >> are :) Julia: Thank you. I now understand the chagrin of the core members here. For better or worse I have focused on my situation and simply have not spent much time in the bigger arena. I am working on it. I am not untrainable. Thanks again. Raymond > >Robyn: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >> Hon, I'm sorry, but I simply have to ask where you're from and how old you > >> are :) >Walken is the patron saint of alt.adoption > >Julia I'm surprised no one has given Raymond a sample of Mr. Walken. "WHEN I WAS doing Batman Returns I had a house and was living very quietly, reading the tabloids from the supermarket. One day there was this picture of Elvis as a middle-aged woman with great big knockers. The story said he had changed himself into a woman. So I just took it from there. I invented this story where he's not dead, he's in limbo with his twin brother. So I stuck him in the play, only his brother is a little younger a better looking and he hates him. And he's trying to get out of limbo. Finally he decides to come back as a woman who works in a diner and is married to an overweight truck driver. That was the last scene I came out in drag with great big boobs, and my husband was sitting with his feet up watching TV and drinking a beer. I did it eight times a week, and six times it was funny and twice it wasn't. Doing the Elvis play was the hardest thing I ever did, but I noticed that immediately afterwards so many things were easier. I've had a couple of times like that, where you just get so scared and so defiant of being scared...Every time I got really scared I'd say to myself, "Who cares? That's the way it goes." I must say that saved me. Because when I thought, "Oh my God, my friends are gonna come, and I'm 50-something years old, and the critics are coming..." then I thought, "Who gives a f.ck?"" Walken to Lawrence Groebel in "Greetings from Planet Showbiz", Nov 1998 Movieline. J. Reply to jmhjmd at aol. > >Walken is the patron saint of alt.adoption > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > J. Boy, I never heard that one before. One of our students did a Twilight Zone episode where he played Jesse Garon. I enjoyed St. Christopher dancing with Madonna a few years ago in a music video. Marley > Reply to jmhjmd at aol. This seems to be very informative for me. Thanks for posting it. It certainly represents a way of approaching life. A big turning point for me was when I was no longer afraid to say "I don't know". It must be an age thing. Raymond > >Walken is the patron saint of alt.adoption > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Reply to jmhjmd at aol. > It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am sorry > but I do not know who Christopher Walken is. I really don't! One strange looking dude (but a pretty good actor). He was also on the boat the night Natalie Wood drowned. I don't see the attraction myself. Kathy 1 (just another poser adoptee) --- GET A COLONOSCOPY: Don't die of embarrassment. >Running The Asylum >From: "kat" katlat24@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Kathy 1 (just another poser adoptee) Apparantly, in my absence, some folks have been allowed on this newsgroup who need to leave and get some education... Christopher Walken is the entire cornerstone of Bastard Nation...there would not even be a BN and all adoption records in America would be closed permanently if it were not for Mr. Walken. Dare I say, Mr Walken is the Messiah of adoptees. I am shocked and dismayed. What has AA come to? deer who wonders who was left in charge deer...the original > >Running The Asylum > >From: "kat" katlat24@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Apparantly, in my absence, some folks have been allowed on this newsgroup who > need to leave and get some education... LOL I've been here since 1996 (under various email addies). I've seen all the fawning and gushing and it hasn't changed my opinion one iota. I'm just uneducable in this area I guess. ;) > Christopher Walken is the entire cornerstone of Bastard Nation...there would > not even be a BN and all adoption records in America would be closed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > deer > who wonders who was left in charge I don't think anybody (even tim) has ever been in charge. We've all pretty much run amok since Day 1 ;) Kathy 1 >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Raymond He's our mascot. LOL ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > It would seem I have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest. I really am sorry > but I do not know who Christopher Walken is. I really don't! > > Raymond That's okay. I said the same thing a few years back. People on this newsgroup gently took me aside and whispered, "Shhh....Google!" Rupa Who still wouldn't recognize C. Walken on a dark night in stormy weather. "sylak" <sylak@adelphia.net> wrote Is > my foggy old brain playing tricks on me or is there really a bit of happy > insanity in this group? That is not a bad thing. > > Raymond You're at the receiving end of years of in-jokes...but no one has ruled out the insanity, either. Rupa (Currently not Deer) lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn) wrote in > P.S. I think Rupa is Deer this week. LOL Who? Me? Couldn't be. Rupa Deer Watson >. Thanks for getting back to me and be advised it will >soon be deer season here. ;-} > >Raymond Not to worry, Raymond...we are Holocaust-surviving, aggressive, ex-slave deer... raised in the pit of all evil...and so we nearly always take the hunter aka (insert your choice of word: evil birth whore, baby stealer, uninformed adoptee or celesta) and ground our sharp-witted antlers into their flabby tummies. Now who is this silly Robin person? someone email me a quick bio... deer...the original >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: deerwatson@aol.com (DeerWatson) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Now who is this silly Robin person? >someone email me a quick bio... Bwaaaaaaa! ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >Now who is this silly Robin person? >someone email me a quick bio... > > http://robin.robin.org/thisisme/ Robin >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Robin Harritt robin@not.never.ever [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Robin I never can get that darn thing to work. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >>Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >>From: Robin Harritt robin@not.never.ever [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > You need to have QuickTime. It can be made to work with other media players but I've forgotten how code it for Windows Media player. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/ Robin > >Now who is this silly Robin person? > >someone email me a quick bio... > > > http://robin.robin.org/thisisme/ > > Robin He's our Rockin' Robin. Marley >> >Now who is this silly Robin person? >> >someone email me a quick bio... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > He's our Rockin' Robin. Hey, better him than me (I LOATHED that song) :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Hey, better him than me (I LOATHED that song) :) > Umm...I've never been particularly fond of the song. And it seems to be get used a lot as a .wav file on some the most horificaly badly designed websites on the Internet. Robin > >> >Now who is this silly Robin person? > >> >someone email me a quick bio... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Hey, better him than me (I LOATHED that song) :) Try sharing your name with Davy Crockett's gun--or a Besty Wetsie doll. That's why I changed my name. Marley >> >> >Now who is this silly Robin person? >> >> >someone email me a quick bio... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Try sharing your name with Davy Crockett's gun--or a Besty Wetsie doll. > That's why I changed my name. LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you fly south for the winter" jokes were pretty tolerable ;) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > >> >> >Now who is this silly Robin person? > >> >> >someone email me a quick bio... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you fly > south for the winter" jokes were pretty tolerable ;) Boy, that never occurred to me. I always thought Robin was a nice name The first Robin I ever ran into was a character on Guiding Light. She was Claudia's daughter and Meta's granddaughter, and I think later adopted by Dr. Fletcher. She grew up on the show and was played by various actresses including dancer Zina Bethune. If I remember correctly, she as eventually run over by a truck. Marley > LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you fly > south for the winter" jokes were pretty tolerable ;) Except that robins don't, I think. Neither the British nor the US ones... I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. Enjoyed it enormously, except for one bit: Becky Sharp is handed a huge blue&gold macaw, and told it comes from India...but it's actually native to S. America. Rupa >> LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you >> fly >> south for the winter" jokes were pretty tolerable ;) > > Except that robins don't, I think. Neither the British nor the US > ones... I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the ones in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) > I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. > > Enjoyed it enormously, except for one bit: Becky Sharp is handed a > huge blue&gold macaw, and told it comes from India...but it's actually > native to S. America. Ack, I hate it when they make screw ups like that. I remember watching some TV show as a kid and they were using a pair of ocelots and saying they were leopard kittens :P Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) > English robins stay put as far as I know, however we do get Scandinavian and Russian robins migrating to Britain to escape the harsher winters there. I would quite like to migrate for the winter. >>I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >leopard kittens :P > I remember some cartoon when I was kid, about a penguin in the Yukon, that always annoyed me some. Robin > >>>LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you > >>>fly [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I would quite like to migrate for the winter. How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? Marley >> >>>LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do >> >>>you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? Anything like African and European swallows? ;) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Marley > It depends on whether the information on their leg rings is written in Swedish or Russian. You can't tell a Russian or Swedish robin from an English robin unless they are involved in an ornithological study and have been ringed. American robins are an entirely different species though. Robin >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? > >Marley Um, have we morphed into a Monty Python movie??? hehe deer...the original > >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > hehe LOL, I was attempting to steer it in that direction :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > deer...the original Were your referring to the *Flying* circus? Deerupa >> >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Were your referring to the *Flying* circus? And now for something completely different....... :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > deer...the original Were your referring to the *Flying* circus? Deerupa >Were your referring to the *Flying* circus? > >Deerupa I was referring to... Arthur: So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through-- Soldier #1: Where'd you get the coconuts? Arthur: We found them. Soldier #1: Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical! Arthur: What do you mean? Soldier #1: Well, this is a temperate zone. Arthur: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land? Soldier #1: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? Arthur: Not at all. They could be carried. Soldier #1: What? A swallow carrying a coconut? Arthur: It could grip it by the husk! Soldier #1: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut. Arthur: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here? Soldier #1: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right? Arthur: Please! Soldier #1: Am I right? Arthur: I'm not interested! Soldier #2: It could be carried by an African swallow! Soldier #1: Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow. That's my point. Soldier #2: Oh, yeah, I agree with that. Arthur: Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?! Soldier #1: But then of course a-- African swallows are non-migratory. Soldier #2: Oh, yeah... Soldier #1: So, they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway... [clop clop clop] Soldier #2: Wait a minute! Supposing two swallows carried it together? Soldier #1: No, they'd have to have it on a line. Soldier #2: Well, simple! They'd just use a strand of creeper! Soldier #1: What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers? Soldier #2: Well, why not? deer...the original deerwatson@aol.com (DeerWatson) wrote > I was referring to... > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Soldier #1: What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers? > Soldier #2: Well, why not? Fabulous! It's perfect. Rupa >How do you differentiate between Scandanavian and Russian robins? > >Marley By their accents, of course. J. Reply to jmhjmd at aol. >>I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the ones >>in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) Which is why you frequently see robins on British Christmas cards but never on American cards. The American robin and the British robin are two entirely unrelated species. The American robin is a thrush whose red chest reminded British immigrants of the bird they left behind them, so the particular bird got named robin. More than you wanted to know I'm sure. Linda > >>I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the ones > >>in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Linda No, it's important I think to get our fauna right. I think Deer should state what species of deer we are. Anterupe >> >>I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the >> >>ones [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I think Deer should state what species of deer we are. Well, I know for a fact that I'm on occasion definitely a mule deer ;) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >I think Deer should state what species of deer we are. > >Anterupe Holocaust-surviving, aggressive, ex-slave deer... how is that? deer...the original >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Robin Harritt robin@not.never.ever >Date: 9/21/2004 1:03 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <2rb55fF18md2bU1@uni-berlin.de> < snip > >I remember some cartoon when I was kid, about a penguin in the Yukon, >that always annoyed me some. Chilly Willy, if memory serves me correctly. I thought he was cool, so to speak. Dad >I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact >that the ones in the US do migrate down south for the winter Most do. The American robin, actually a very large thrush, covers an enormous range on the North American continent, and many of them live so far south that they don't have to migrate. Your robins and mine -- those in the northern mid-Atlantic region -- do migrate. Annoyingly, again this year, the goddamned lousy crows ate the little robins in the nest outside our bedroom window before they fledged. I f.cking hate crows, dirty scavenging self-centered things, bent on getting their "needs" met even at the expense of the young. whoever ------------------------------------ cheerily, cheerily, coffee >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: reveohw@aol.compromise (fiend) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >whoever I got pecked in the head last week by a woodpecker that seems to have laid claim to the area around our garage. Hubby laughed his a.s off and called me a "peckerhead" for a few days. Until it attacked HIM, of course. Then he put the fake owl doodad out there to scare it away. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >>From: reveohw@aol.compromise (fiend) [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > put > the fake owl doodad out there to scare it away. LOL! Oh my, sorry :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >Annoyingly, again this year, the goddamned lousy crows ate the little robins >in >the nest outside our bedroom window before they fledged. I f.cking hate >crows, >dirty scavenging self-centered things, bent on getting their "needs" met even >at the expense of the young. the bird triad... crows, robins and fledglings.... but which is which???? deer...the original >>I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact >>that the ones in the US do migrate down south for the winter [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > even > at the expense of the young. I actually like crows (except, of course, when I see them flying by with a fledgling in their beaks - ack), but they got almost wiped out in my neck of the woods from that Nile virus. Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: reveohw@aol.compromise (fiend) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >they don't have to migrate. Your robins and mine -- those in the northern >mid-Atlantic region -- do migrate. Turdus migratorius, or something close like that. Moving poop. Dad > >> LOL, totally understandable. I guess that "where's Batman" and "Do you > >> fly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the ones > in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) Sensible birds. I know someone named Cuckoo, except that she doesn't spell it that way. I'm not sure if it's a nickname or not, but it's what she goes by. And one of my closest friends has a nickname that means parrot. Fortunately, she has a dignified given name to go by at work... Rupa On: 9/21/04 6:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time <snip> >I can't speak for the robins in Britain, but I know for a fact that the ones >in the US do migrate down south for the winter :) <snip> As an avid bird watcher of many years, I beg to differ, RobYn with a "y". It's been my experience that not all robins migrate. Gary PFC BFB > On: 9/21/04 6:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > As an avid bird watcher of many years, I beg to differ, RobYn with a "y". > It's been my experience that not all robins migrate. Well, the ones that visit the northeast of the US absolutely do migrate. I know that for a fact. Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 On: 9/25/04 10:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time >Well, the ones that visit the northeast of the US absolutely do migrate. >I know that for a fact. Please accept my apology, RobYn with a "y". I should have clarified my statement with a "here in Ohio" proviso. Gary PFC BFB > On: 9/25/04 10:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Please accept my apology, RobYn with a "y". I should have clarified my > statement with a "here in Ohio" proviso. No problemo :) One of the sure signs of spring here is when you spot your first robin :) Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. Didn't you think the ending was awfully rushed and they made Betsy Sharp much nicer than she should have been? I liked Collateral better. whoever ----------------------------------------------- no more caffeinated than I should be > >I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > whoever Clearly a sympathetic take on Becky, I agree; but then again, I don't know how well the movie would have worked with an unlikeable nasty protagonist. I feel Witherspoon's performance made the movie. The ending...well, yes. At the time, I felt that was the point: That she was marrying him because he presented a better option, and so there was no need to hesitate. All that pageantry as they ride the elephant into the fort in Jaipur was a pure Mira Nair flourish, just having fun with the 'exotic India' thing. And yet one is left with the feeling that the story of her second marriage might well be as complex as that of her first. Ob.alt.a content: Both for Amelia and Becky, sending their kids to people who promise them better lives is depicted as a ... surrender. Rupa >Clearly a sympathetic take on Becky, I agree; but then again, I don't >know how well the movie would have worked with an unlikeable nasty >protagonist. I feel Witherspoon's performance made the movie. It would have been a challenge had Sharp been portrayed as the calculating bitch I recall from Thackeray. On the other hand, though, the makers of Collateral had no difficulty getting us to enjoy Cruise's appalling Ted-Bundyesque character. And to tell you the truth, Witherspoon's chin really bothered me, and I may have been a bit intolerant of the entire movie as a result. Superficial of me, I know, but there it is. >The ending...well, yes. At the time, I felt that was the point: That >she was marrying him because he presented a better option, and so >there was no need to hesitate. She didn't marry him in the book, did she? There's an example of the blunting of the character. But what bothered me more about the last half-hour of the movie was that the pace, which had been leisurely, suddenly became vertiginous. Time to wrap this thing up! Wrap! Wrap! Wrap! was my impression. >All that pageantry as they ride the elephant into the fort in Jaipur >was a pure Mira Nair flourish, just having fun with the 'exotic India' >thing. I enjoyed that, and I was intrigued by how India was always present in the background throughout the movie, especially in the art direction. I'd like to see more of that kind of pageantry from Nair. Of her movies, I've seen Salaam Bombay, Mississippi Masala, and Monsoon Wedding; I liked them all but I'd like to see what she could do with a fairy-tale type of story, set in India of course. I've seen too many damn English fairy-tale movies. The "Indian" stuff in Vanity Fair could have risen up and swamped the "English" stuff altogether and I'd have been tickled pink. And orange. And fuchsia. And crimson. And embroidered all over with gold thread. >And yet one is left with the feeling that the story of her second >marriage might well be as complex as that of her first. Well, in the book, I think she runs through all his money and leaves him with a social disease, or something. More recent readers, I hope, will correct me. >Ob.alt.a content: Both for Amelia and Becky, sending their kids to >people who promise them better lives is depicted as a ... surrender. As it is. And the better lives aren't presented as all that great, either. whoever -------------------------------------------- I'd even drink tea for 120 minutes reveohw@aol.compromise (fiend) wrote > She didn't marry him in the book, did she? There's an example of the blunting > of the character. Yes, you're right. She exploited his weakness, and inherited money from him... "Three months afterwards Joseph Sedley died at Aix-la-Chapelle. It was found that all his property had been muddled away in speculations, and was represented by valueless shares in different bubble companies. All his available assets were the two thousand pounds for which his life was insured, and which were left equally between his beloved "sister Amelia, wife of, &c., and his friend and invaluable attendant during sickness, Rebecca, wife of Lieutenant-Colonel Rawdon Crawley, C.B.," who was appointed administratrix." But what bothered me more about the last half-hour of the > movie was that the pace, which had been leisurely, suddenly became vertiginous. > Time to wrap this thing up! Wrap! Wrap! Wrap! was my impression. Now that I think about it, yes. The movie is basically over after the confrontation with Rawdon. > >All that pageantry as they ride the elephant into the fort in Jaipur > >was a pure Mira Nair flourish, just having fun with the 'exotic India' [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and I'd have been tickled pink. And orange. And fuchsia. And crimson. And > embroidered all over with gold thread. Have you seen any of the Bollywood productions? I'm not sure if they have them subtitled, but they're quite lavish. Not sure if they're exactly *artistic*, though. Were you thinking "Far Pavilions" ? > >Ob.alt.a content: Both for Amelia and Becky, sending their kids to > >people who promise them better lives is depicted as a ... surrender. > > As it is. And the better lives aren't presented as all that great, either. True. In the book, though, the boys live "happily ever after." (By way of Cambridge.) Rupa > >Clearly a sympathetic take on Becky, I agree; but then again, I don't > >know how well the movie would have worked with an unlikeable nasty [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ted-Bundyesque character. And to tell you the truth, Witherspoon's chin really > bothered me. I noticed it. But that's all. > and I may have been a bit intolerant of the entire movie as a > result. Superficial of me, I know, but there it is. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > She didn't marry him in the book, did she? You're right. I've just checked. He died, leaving her and Amelia two thousand pounds between them from life insurance that Becky had enviegled him into getting. Becky thereafter hung around in Bath and Cheltenham (continuing to call herself Lady Crawley even though she was not), where 'a very strong party of excellent people consider her to be a most injured woman. She has enemies. Who has not? Her life is an answer to them. She busies herslf with works of piety.' Surely that is scathing, and it's that scathing quality I found wanting in the movie. There's no sense of her plotting and scheming. She's represented as merely opportunistic, and excuses made even for that. For instance, after Rawden finds her in Steyne's arms and discovers that she has accepted money from him, Becky pleads that she has travelled a difficult road. He replies that he has travelled with her. She then pathetically says something like "Ah, but you do not know where I have been before." That kind of pissed me. All she says in the book is 'I am innocent', at which point Rawden walks out of her life. Rh. > >All that pageantry as they ride the elephant into the fort in Jaipur > >was a pure Mira Nair flourish, just having fun with the 'exotic India' [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > -------------------------------------------- > I'd even drink tea for 120 minutes > > >I saw Mira Nair's Vanity Fair last night. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > know how well the movie would have worked with an unlikeable nasty > protagonist. I feel Witherspoon's performance made the movie. I thought Witherspoon had a touch of the minx, but not enough of the vixen. I wished she'd been badder and sharper and more brittle. I was a tad disappointed because my sense of Becky Sharp is that she has a refined sense of the weaknesses of the other inhabitants of 'Vanity Fair', knows how to exploit them and has no scruples about doing so. In fact, I didn't think that the movie sucessfully communicated the extent to which this was a corrupt greedy society, and that blunted the satirical edge as well as undercut the comedic aspects of the story. Still, I enjoyed the movie, and didn't leave with that 'waste of time and money' feeling one sometimes has. > The ending...well, yes. At the time, I felt that was the point: That > she was marrying him because he presented a better option, and so > there was no need to hesitate. More like because there was no better option, IMO. I read it as a defeat of sorts, but one which could be turned to her advantage when the opportunity presented itself. > All that pageantry as they ride the elephant into the fort in Jaipur > was a pure Mira Nair flourish, just having fun with the 'exotic India' > thing. I liked that, and thought it was a liberty well taken. Did you notice that Becky's original trunk, initialed R.S, was on the back of the elephant, making the point that she carried her baggage with her. I also liked how Joss was transformed from a silly fool into a silly potentate! > And yet one is left with the feeling that the story of her second > marriage might well be as complex as that of her first. > > Ob.alt.a content: Both for Amelia and Becky, sending their kids to > people who promise them better lives is depicted as a ... surrender. Good point. Although it seems to me that they surrendered from very different motives and to different pressures. Rh. > Rupa >> >> >Now who is this silly Robin person? >> >> >someone email me a quick bio... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Try sharing your name with Davy Crockett's gun-- "Bang went Old Betsy..." A few years ago I was shopping in China at a store that had Chinese Muzak. The song they were playing sounded vaguely familiar, but I couldn't place it until the chorus, which went: "DAVEY, DAVEY CLOCKETT..." :-) or a Besty Wetsie doll. >That's why I changed my name. > >Marley > >. Thanks for getting back to me and be advised it will > >soon be deer season here. ;-} [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > deer...the original What brought you to our humble alt.adoption, Deer. Of course, you may be C*leste, . Marley >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "Marley Greiner" maddogmarley@worldnet.att.net [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Marley Silly woman. I invoked her. We're all Deer. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn) wrote > >What brought you to our humble alt.adoption, Deer. Of course, you may be > >C*leste, . > > > >Marley > > Silly woman. I invoked her. We're all Deer. Hordes of us. Or was that herds?. Deerupa >Robin: > >I have little interest in endearing myself with anyone nor do I wish to >antagonize anyone. That's good, this is not a support group. It is at times. a place where people come to let off some steam. >I was abandoned, adopted, raised by good people, have >kids, grandkids and a pretty good life. I have only known one set of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >before, I know where all the information is, I simply have not figured out >how to get it free. You mean get access to it free of any monetary charge? Or do you mean get it unsealed? When you say you were 'abandoned' that usually means you are a foundling, is that so? If that is what you mean, then does either the state or whatever agency arranged your adoption, actually have very much information that it could give you even if it wished to do so? >I have no great need to be reunited and this is rather mute anyway since I cannot gain acces to the records which would allow me to find out if either parent is even alive at this time. We are all different with different stories to tell. Merely because I do not understand the anger or bitterness of another person does not make them wrong. There are very few people here who are 'bitter', as far as I can see just two, occasionally people are quite justifiably angry, anger is healthy, bitterness isn't. >I should also point out that I am a little dumb with this i'net stuff. For all I know all the posts on this newsgroup could be coming from one or two people using >different aliases. Have you been hanging with loonies on alt.adoption.issues? >I simply visit to learn and maybe rub elbows with others >that have similar backgrounds. You might be more sure of finding that if you were to try a spesalised group for adoptees, you'd need to go look on Yahoo or MSN groups or http://forums.adoption.com where posts are censored or moderated as they call it. Robin Yes, by abandoned I mean that I was foundling. Because they could not track down either parent I was not actually adopted until I was nearly 3. They were able to figure out who the b-parents were through a third party who had known my b-mom. Over the last 30 years I have scatched up a numer of pieces but there are still a lot of holes. I will continue the effort. Raymond > >Robin: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > >I have no great need to be reunited and this is rather mute anyway since I cannot gain acces to the records which would allow me to find out if either parent is even alive at this time. We are all different with different stories to tell. Merely because I do not understand the anger or bitterness of another person does not make them wrong. > There are very few people here who are 'bitter', as far as I can see > just two, occasionally people are quite justifiably angry, anger is > healthy, bitterness isn't. > > >I should also point out that I am a little dumb with this i'net stuff. For all I know all the posts on this newsgroup could be coming from one or two people using > >different aliases. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Robin >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Raymond Good luck to you! ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > Robin: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > others > that have similar backgrounds. Just remember not to annoy your birthmother if she doesn't want anything to do with you. Jackie gets upset if ungrateful adoptees want to know any personal information because the birthmother comes first and has suffered the most. Just so you know. Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Raymond I don't recall asking you to take sides. I was responding to a post from Jackie. :-) ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >I don't recall asking you to take sides. I was responding to a post from >Jackie. :-) Well, I say...let's take sides. Okay...all the smart people over here with Jackie and me Everyone else...over there with Robin. deer...the original >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Raymond I hear ya! Welcome, and hopefully nobody will expect you to take sides. >> >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >> >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" >> -----Unknown Kathy, born Renee Karyn Racine Baltimore, Here I come > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum > >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Back one day, and already a victim.. The supportive, encouraging, thing over on adoption.com must be wearing a little thin. Not enough opportunity to engage in that "anger" that she so loves or complain about how badly everyone treats her. > >Who knows why? > > oh brother.. No doubt and yet she claims she has great insight to impart to potential birthmothers. Too bad she doesn't use that insight when it comes to her own behavior. This post is a perfect example of how she lobs a grenade and then sits back and plays dumb and innocent. Kathy 1 > >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum > >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Back one day, and already a victim.. Problem is, y'all keep responding to that f.cking f.cked-up nutcase. Killfile her. steve >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Steve White steve@spam.me.never [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Problem is, y'all keep responding to that f.cking f.cked-up nutcase. >Killfile her. I can't help it. She keeps changing her posting addy and falls out of my killfile. The rest is just ACS. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown Jackie: I have absolutely no idea why I was named Raymond. It was my b-name. My middle name and last name were changed but since I was 3 when finally adopted they did not change my first name. Eventually I will figure it out. The adoption issue is one that evokes emotions and too often when one cannot deal with those emotions they get angry. Be glad they throw only tomatoes. Raymond > >Jackie: > > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > >> > >> Jackie >Jackie: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Raymond Raymond I hope you get your answers.. Its good to have full circle.. All the best to you.. Jackie >> >Jackie: >> > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >> >> >> >> Jackie > The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. > >I tend to piss some people off.. > >Who knows why? > Anyone who's been here more than five minutes. Robin > > The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Robin The fact that she can't seem to figure it out (as she claims) doesn't speak well of her power of observation. Of course I believe she knows exactly why (in fact actively pursues it) and is merely playing the role of the "innocent". Kathy 1 >>Jackie: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. > I tend to piss some people off.. Oh jeeze - It starts already <rolls eyes> Signature__________ Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: Jackie somewhere@aol [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. Only when we're feeling nice. Otherwise you must not enhale much of the stuff we are throwing. >I tend to piss some people off.. >Who knows why? Awwww, poor poor misunderstood Jackie. >Your name.. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>> >compute her spenddown. I wonder if this abandoning kids at "safe havens" >>> >isn't the same sort of thing. Must have missed this post Raymond. I think that is a very interesting point. I would venture to say that some of the cases that is exactly what happens. >>> The easy way out of the problem.. >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>> >>> Jackie Kathy, born Renee Karyn Racine Baltimore, Here I come > >Jackie: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The trouble is Raymond some people here throw tomatoes at me.. > I tend to piss some people off.. 'Tend'? Ha! And that from someone who's lobbed more than a few juicies in her time. Let her who is without sin cast the first tomato. After all, you've been away. So it's almost like a new beginning. Allow me to congratulate you on a great start. > Who knows why? Aw, the pathos. Stanch my bleeding heart. It seems that when you aren't being overtly insulting you're being insinuating. Like now, for instance. Too many of your remarks are in a similar vein (the jugular, with a twist of lemon, and a large shot of self-pity). I hope you find it a sustaining diet. Rh. > But it is very nice to sit with someone named Raymond.. Talking to > oneself is accepted.. > Jackie > > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >> > >> Jackie >>Jackie: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Who knows why? Martyrdom has never become you, Jackie. Occasionally you have insightful things to say, but they always seem to get lost in the self-pity you spread on top. Too bad... Nancy >Your name.. > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>> >>> Jackie > If they terminate their rights I don't think they are financially > responsible for foster care or adoption related expenses. What about border > babies? Do they go after the parents for money if they terminate their > rights? I'm not sure. I think if the parents cannot pay, or if the baby is adoptable and adopted, the government doesn't look to the parents. I wonder if it varies from state to state - or perhaps even County to County? > Are they responsible financially though if they terminate their parental > rights? Why would that be any different than if they terminated their rights > to make way for the child to be adopted? I think because the adopting parents take on the full financial responsibility for the child, it's not an issue. It's the logic by which a man must pay child support for his baby if its mother is raising it, but not if they both relinquish their rights to another couple. He can't get out of his payments merely by relinquishing his parental rights; someone else (say the mother's new husband) has to take them on. > If the child is in the care of CPS due to the parents terminating their > parental rights wouldn't that be the same thing? The child is now availabel > for adoption. I rather suspect the issue is whether the child is assumed to be adoptable. > Nothing if more "visible" than a two year old who suddenly "disappears" from > a family! True. But if it's done quickly, without much fuss, it possibly can be explained away. "She's gone to live with...(some relative)." I don't know if relinquishing a toddler is that seamless. And in some situations -- for instance, if the toddler's father is someplace in the mother's past, and it's the new boyfriend who is potentially abusive, then the mother may not even be able to relinquish if she can't track down the father and get his consent. Rupa >Subject: Re: Gak! The Inmates Are Running The Asylum >From: rkbose@pacific.net.sg (Rupa Bose) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >wonder if it varies from state to state - or perhaps even County to >County? Yes, the family is responsible, if it has any assets. And CPS will threaten them, especially if the child is not a good and easy candidate for adoption. Certainly CPS has threatened many adoptive parents who have tried to terminate their parental rights to children who were a threat to the other children n their home. They don't bother going after poor people. Roberta mom to Juliette, 8, adopted from China lilmtncbn@aol.com (LilMtnCbn) wrote > Can I drop off my grandma too? Depends, I think. You're under no legal obligation to care for her, AFAIK. If she's destitute, the State may take on the job. There are some state-run Old Peoples' Homes. Rupa Can't figure out how to send a Letter to the Editor to these guys; they've hidden it pretty well. steve > Can I drop off my grandma too? > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > and safely relinquish custody of older children they cannot care for > without fear of prosecution. Steve White wrote: > Can't figure out how to send a Letter to the Editor to these guys; > they've hidden it pretty well. > > steve This should get the job done: letters@express-news.net pb... >>Can I drop off my grandma too? >> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>and safely relinquish custody of older children they cannot care for >>without fear of prosecution. |
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