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Family Forum / Parenting / Adoption / November 2004Wondering
I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole picture since I didnt read each and every post.  SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? > Some of the posts I read didnt sound too friendly towards birth parents, > especially the birth mothers. Of course maybe I wasnt getting the whole > picture since I didnt read each and every post. LOL, oh dear. I see that we haven't given you the best impression, eh? Well, the group is for adoptees, birthmom, adoptive parents, etc. However, it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free to join in :) Signature--------- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Thanks Robyn, Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need support' stage. I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the other side. For the most part my adoption experience was a positive one so the subject is one I enjoy discussing. Problem is that in the real world birth parents rarely admit to having released a child, most adoptees I have met are adults and the fact they are adopted is as boring to them as the fact I wasnt and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth parents, some even feel like we are the enemy. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free | to join in :) > Thanks Robyn, > Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fact I wasnt and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth > parents, some even feel like we are the enemy. Dear BaD a.s Me... Take note that some news readers delete any and all text (when formatting replies] which falls below " -- " ...just as you have the -- above your signature. I was able to cut/paste Robyn's reply to your initial post...it appears below. I find that I prefer to see the text to which one is responding...it helps with continuity in the discussion/thread. I'm astonished that you've reached the point of not needing support now that your child is all of 9 years old. My daughter will be turning 41 next year and I still enjoy the support of everyone touched by adoption - positive or negative...hell, even middle of the road. Could you please expand on these statements: >...Problem is that in the real world birth parents rarely admit >to having released a child... AND, >...and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth >parents, some even feel like we are the enemy. AND, >I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the other side. I'll look forward to your reply. pb... | >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | >for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] | Resident Witchypoo | #1557 | > Thanks Robyn, | > Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] | everyone touched by adoption - positive or negative...hell, even | middle of the road. When I went through my adoption initially there was no support. My other children didnt know, my family didnt want to talk about it, the father was not supportive, and there are still no support groups or anything like that for birth parents near where I live. I did not have friends, family or others who were understanding or willing to try to be understanding of what I was going through. So... I just dealt with it. It ate me up so badly for awhile until I got to the point that I had to just let go. I decided that I had to have the attitude that I did what I did for the right reasons and that is all I can control. Whether it turned out bad or good for my child I did the best I could and worrying and crying would solve nothing. I have to believe, until proven otherwise, that I chose wisely when choosing a family and that he/she is loved, cared for and totally happy with the family provided them. I accept that I will probably never know anything about my child above what I learned through the adopt. process. I do not plan on ever meeting my child either. When I released him/her for adoption I released him/her totally. I am open to meeting my child someday but am not hopefull and definately not going to initate contact. You say your daughter is 41? Are the two of you in contact? | Could you please expand on these statements: | | >...Problem is that in the real world birth parents rarely admit | >to having released a child... Birth parents I have met only admitted to being birth parents after I told them I was and still it usually took some time. 90% of the b-moms I have met are either ashamed of their choice or too hurt by it to want to discuss it openly. | AND, | | >...and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth | >parents, some even feel like we are the enemy. I have met and made friends with some wonderful adoptive parents. But even they were iffy in the beginning about how or what to say to me. I think many feel I might burst into tears at the mention of my child or that I am like a movie of the week and am viciously hunting my child down to take back or something like that. Many a-parents I have met just want to cut all ties with the b-parents. I think out of fear. Fear of them coming back or sticking their nose where it no longer belongs. | AND, | | >I am just facinated by the experiences of those on the other side. Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again. (hopefully!) I guess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if that is the right word for it. And since I had only minimal contact with the adoptive family for my child I am interested in hearing about the experience from their point of view, how do they see thier childs b-mom, what do they tell their child about her etc.. P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out. I have given all medical information and written out everything I could imagine my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before they get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what I provided. Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the boy next door. I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with their family. BaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | I'll look forward to your reply. | [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] || Resident Witchypoo || #1557 >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com >Date: 11/25/2004 4:35 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <Lcspd.32434$fY.83@bignews3.bellsouth.net> < snip > > Since I will probably never see or talk with my child again. (hopefully!) I >guess talking to other adoptees is a kind of replacement. Not sure if that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be >mean. I don't think your being mean, just perhaps a little naive. >I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their >adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out. That's a myth. It's natural for adoptees to want to "seek out" their birthparents regardless of the "happy" life they may have had with their adoptive family. Even abused and/or neglected children who have been adopted out foster care often want to reconnect with their biological parent(s). Does that surprise you? >I have given all medical information and written out everything I could imagine >my child might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she >would not have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before >they get a chance to find me?) There are a few adoptees here that have found tombstones at the end of their search. I think that's a tragedy. I know of a birthmom (in her 60's) who finally mustered up the courage to search for her son, only to find that he had died of heart failure two years earlier. It goes both ways. I think many, if not all, the adoptees on this newsgroup who have reunited with their birthparent(s) will tell you that they have no regrets, even if their reunification wasn't all they hoped it would be. Just be open to the possibility that someday you might feel differently than you do now. Hopefully, it won't be too late. >The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept while >preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To never >hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made a good choice and that he/she >didnt need anything more than what I provided. It could simply mean that your child searched but couldn't find you. It could mean that he delayed his search out of some misplaced loyalty to his adoptive parents. It could mean that he's waiting for you to search for hm. It could mean many things, but it almost never means that he's forgotten he has another mother out there... somewhere. >Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or >something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the boy >next door. I doesn't really matter, people will talk anyway. But you seem to be overly secretive, even about his/her gender. If faced with a real opportunity for a reunification down the road, would you turn him away? >I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with >their family. What you don't seem to understand is that you've already "interfered" (your word). Whether you become reunified or remain imaginary, he can no more forget about you than you can forget about him. If you're somehow worried that his adoptive parents would fear his reunification, don't be. From a purely selfish aparent perspective, I'd rather "compete" with real flesh and blood than some fantasy ghost any day. "Compete" is the wrong word, but you know what I mean. Adoptive or birthparents who approach reunion with contempt or hostility towards each other (read Ms. Scarlett) gain nothing. They just put their child through hell. I hope your son's adoptive parents will encourage him to search some day. I hope that you will be receptive to your son should he find you. Dad | >Subject: Re: Wondering | >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] | out foster care often want to reconnect with their biological parent(s). Does | that surprise you? Oh no not at all. I am not adopted but never really knew my birth father other than a few bad childhood memories. Still I sought him out and sure enough he was still bad. | >I have given all medical information and written out everything I could | imagine [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | finally mustered up the courage to search for her son, only to find that he had | died of heart failure two years earlier. It goes both ways. I think it would be so sad to end a search like that. I hpe that if my child searches for me that they find whatever answers they are looking for. I feel as though I owe that much. | I think many, if not all, the adoptees on this newsgroup who have reunited | with their birthparent(s) will tell you that they have no regrets, even if | their reunification wasn't all they hoped it would be. | | Just be open to the possibility that someday you might feel differently than | you do now. Hopefully, it won't be too late. I am open to meeting my child someday. I simply dont 'live' for it. Or a better way to put it is that I dont expect it. That way I am not dissapointed. As I said I feel that no contact in the end is a good sign too. | >The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, letters, diary I kept while | >preg and other stuff to help my child in the future with questions. To never [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | It could mean many things, but it almost never means that he's forgotten he has | another mother out there... somewhere. Oh (K) wont have a search. (K)'s parents know everything there is to know about me and how to contact me. They are very open with information about me. THey would never stand in the way of a reunion. In fact they offered several times in the beginning for me to visit but I declined. They are wonderful people. | >Oh and I say he/she because I dont want to let some identifiying event or | >something slip and someone say oo that is the girl down the road or the boy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | secretive, even about his/her gender. If faced with a real opportunity for a | reunification down the road, would you turn him away? I would never turn my child away. I only hope that (K) doesnt expect too much of me. I do not consider myself her 'real' mom. I do not and can never have that bond that they will develop over years of growing up. Of course adoptmom cant have the bond I do either. Guess were both the real mom in different ways. I guess I am overly protective of the information. I have always been very careful not to do anything to interfere with their family in any way that was unwanted. After all who knows, the adoptive parents my post here??!! | >I would never want to do anything to interfere or mess with | >their family. | | What you don't seem to understand is that you've already "interfered" (your | word). Whether you become reunified or remain imaginary, he can no more forget | about you than you can forget about him. I just do not want to do anyting to disrupt what they have. I have no place in (K)'s life right now other than as the person who gave birth and the one who gave (K) the family he/she has right now. Right now mom and dad should and are the main people. I wont detract from that until I am contacted after the age of 18. | If you're somehow worried that his adoptive parents would fear his | reunification, don't be. From a purely selfish aparent perspective, I'd rather | "compete" with real flesh and blood than some fantasy ghost any day. Oh the adoptive parents are wonderful they would totally support a reunion. They have one other adopted child and are also wonderful with his mom. They offered and she accepted visits with him. (I declined) I couldnt have asked for a kinder more loving family. | "Compete" is the wrong word, but you know what I mean. Adoptive or | birthparents who approach reunion with contempt or hostility towards each other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | Dad I know they will be and if I see my chld again I will be over joyed. I do feel that (K) may seek us out because I have other children, her siblings. As I said the search wouldnt be a long one. I know all about them. They know all about me and the adoption worker does too. I have also included a letter of consent to contact with my adoption papers. It is up to (K) in the future to decide on the course for our relationship, if any, when the time is right. | >Subject: Re: Wondering | >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] | | Dad PS I take it that you are an adoptive parent? Personally I think you guys are great! I have so much respect for couples who have that much love to give to a child. I cant imagine my life or my childs life without the wonderful family she has now. I was a foster parent for a few years (to one child) and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent. I love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt. I still love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a troubled teen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to me over and over that they dont see how I did it, releasing my daughter. Well that is how I feel about aparents. >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com >Date: 11/25/2004 10:15 PM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <Tbxpd.60797$IQ.29818@bignews6.bellsouth.net> < snip> >PS I take it that you are an adoptive parent? We have an adopted son (15) and daughter (12). >Personally I think you guys are great! I have so much respect for couples >who have that much love to give to a child. I cant imagine my life or my >childs life without the wonderful family she has now. Oh, somehow I think you would have managed just fine. >I was a foster parent for a few years (to one child) What happened to her? >and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent. I'm not sure if I understand. If you now have the capacity to be a good parent and the confidence and support in place to go along with it, what's the big deal? >I love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt. I think you sell yourself short. >I still love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a troubled >teen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to me >over and over that they dont see how I did it, releasing my daughter. Well >that is how I feel about aparents. I'm trying to understand the apparent contradiction in that statement. Pun intended. Dad | >Subject: Re: Wondering | >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | | Oh, somehow I think you would have managed just fine. Oh I know my child would not have had near as good a life with me as with the adoptive parents. Had it been a differnt time and situation I would have been OK. | >I was a foster parent for a few years (to one child) | | What happened to her? She was a wonderful girl. Had so much potential but came from a terrible background. We struggled with her for almost 3 years but the situation got to the point that she was adversely influencing our other children, had made false claims of abuse and neglect (all obviously false to the investigators but none the less stressfull), and at the end of her stay with us my husband and I were sleeping in shifts so we could watch her door because of the threat to run away or to cause physical harm to one of our children. I struggled with the decision but felt that in the end I had to do what was best for my own children and my marriage. She ended up back at home with her mother. | >and I have to admit I know I could never be an adoptive parent. | | I'm not sure if I understand. If you now have the capacity to be a good | parent and the confidence and support in place to go along with it, what's the | big deal? Just like some people arent cut out for step parenting (or some for parenting period!) I do not have it in me to welcome into my life permenantly a child that was not my own birth child. When I was single I wouldnt even consider a date with someone with kids. I just know myself. I wouldnt be mean or anything but I dont think I could. My children are so precious to me. I am afraid I would not feel the same with an adopted child. | >I love my children dearly but I dont have whatever it takes to adopt. | | I think you sell yourself short. Maybe I just know my limits. Of course adopting a child has never been a consideration for us so its not like I have even faced the possibility. | >I still love my foster daughter dearly (as much as one can love a troubled | >teen--just kidding) but I cant imagine adopting. People have said to me [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | | Dad Well, I could love, nurture, support and provide for my foster child. I wanted to do those things for her but at the same time I knew I was not her parent. I encouraged her to work on her family relationships (the ones that were semi-healthy). My place in her life was not the same as a birth or adopted parent. I truly loved being a foster parent but the stress of an older, troubled child was too much with us still have very impressionable and naive children at home. You have to consider too that I am through having children. I have no desire to go through the infancy, toddler, stages again. I enjoy my teens and am totally wrapped right now in that aspect of parenting. In my book, adoptive parents 'ROCK' as my kids would say. I believe some people are just special that way. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** > P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be > mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their > adoptive family then they will have no need to seek me out. I see you have fallen prey to one of the most common adoption myths. The quality of life with the adoptive parents has *nothing* to do with whether or not an adoptee seeks or does not seek their bparents. Lots of adoptees with a positive adoption experience search just as lots of adoptees with a negative adoption experience do not search. >I have given > all medical information Medical information is an ongoing, ever changing thing. It is not a one time, static thing. and written out everything I could imagine my child > might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would not > have to look to me for an answer (after all what if I pass away before they > get a chance to find me?) The adoptive family has tons and tons of photos, > letters, diary I kept while preg and other stuff to help my child in the > future with questions. To never hear from my child, IMHO, means that I made > a good choice and that he/she didnt need anything more than what I provided. You would be wrong in that assessment. Kathy 1 Adoptee who did not search, who's bmother/bfather searched. >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "kat" katlat24seeifthishelps@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Kathy 1 Great post, Kathy. I totally agree. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown | > P.S. By saying I hopefully wont see my child again I am not trying to be | > mean. I feel that if he/she has a fullfilled and happy life with their [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | with a positive adoption experience search just as lots of adoptees with a | negative adoption experience do not search. My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and complete that he has no need to know me. If he does search...not much a search really...then I will be overjoyed to answer quesitons, be a part of his life, and hopefully have a relationship with him. | >I have given | > all medical information | | Medical information is an ongoing, ever changing thing. It is not a one | time, static thing. Fortunately I keep in contact with the adoption worker. She is no longer a worker there but continues to follow 'her' families. I update her regularly on not only medical issues that may arise but things of interest in the family that my child may want to know someday. If there is a birth or death I call her...stuff like that. | and written out everything I could imagine my child | > might wonder about or want to ask me at some point so that he/she would [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | Kathy 1 | Adoptee who did not search, who's bmother/bfather searched. Who knows how she will feel. I have friends who are adopted and some searched and found, some searched and didnt find, some never wanted to search. She will decide when she is old enough and her parents will support her with it. Bad writes of her birth son: >My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and >complete that he has no need to know me. >> <snip> Bad, this sounds to me as if you either feel you are not worthy of his future attention and caring or that you have bought into one of the many adoption myths, the myth that happy and fulfilled adoptees will never feel a need to know birth relatives. Either way, your statements sound sad to me. Perhaps you and your son will not be drawn together one day, but perhaps you will. If that becomes your reality, I hope you will be able to accept him into your life without feeling unworthy or worrying that his life must not have been good enough. P2P | Bad writes of her birth son: | [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | | P2P No, I have just left it up to my child to decide if a future relationship will take place. My wish that she has a fullfilled and happy life regardless of whether we ever meet. I hold no expectations for the future with her but also would be over joyed to meet her some day. Why would I feel unworthy? I was actually told by the adoption agency to expect her to look for me. According to statistics I have read (for ex. a study that reviewed estimates abroad and in the United States Muller & Perry, 2001) suggest around 50% of adoptees search for their birth families. This varies by study of course but from what I have seen ,that appears reliable, I have about a 50/50 chance of seeing my child again. Im Ok with that. I am not hanging on to some hope that the day she turns 18 ill get a knock on the door. I prepared for it but if it happens it happens. If not then thats OK too. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** Hopefully, if she does choose to connect with her biological roots you will have left her a trail she can find. Raymond > | Bad writes of her birth son: > | [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > OK > too. | Hopefully, if she does choose to connect with her biological roots you will | have left her a trail she can find. | | Raymond Not a problem since she has every bit of information about me there is to know. I contact them with every move, phone number change, cell phone numbers, etc. Not much of a mystery for her to figure out. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | > | Bad writes of her birth son: | > | [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] | > OK | > too. I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I know there is a large hole in the fabric of my being. I would like to know who I am. I seek nothing other than that knowledge. Why? I have no idea. The two people who caused me to come into this world (I prefer the term bio-parents) are, in all probability, dead. I expect, at some time, the young lady that you brought into this world will ask her own questions. Since she apparently has all the information about you she may not feel the need to look you up. I expect it is different for each of us. Raymond >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "sylak" sylak@adelphia.net [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Raymond Good post, Raymond. Here's an essay by Abigail Lovett you might enjoy. She's my hero. http://www.adoptionforum.org/Library/Articles/an_adoptees_advice.htm ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown |I cannot speak for anyone but myself but I know there is a large hole in the | fabric of my being. I would like to know who I am. I seek nothing other than [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Raymond I expect it is different. I think it is a shame that all adoptions dont continue on with with eventual reunion of all involved (except of course in abuse situation etc). even if only briefly and out of curiousity. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** Time for a breather, Bad a.s. Below you will find refs to: 1. he 2. his 3. two instances of THREE dots, as in the elipse, which has been a part of my online writing since 1991 -- as opposed to the TWO dots you just posted which has been used by another regular poster to this ng. Looking to confuse folks, Bad a.s? You got your whip out a bit too soon for the main feature, dear. > My hope is that he does not search. I want his life to be so full and > complete that he has no need to know me. If he does search...not much a > search really...then I will be overjoyed to answer quesitons, be a part of > his life, and hopefully have a relationship with him. pb... >Thanks Robyn, >Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >fact I wasnt and adoptive parents feel uncomfortable talking to a birth >parents, some even feel like we are the enemy. G'day Bad a.s. This aparent will be happy to lay down her guns and chat. Welcome to alt.a, our own weird little corner of the universe. Julia Mum of 8 kids: 2 homemade daughters and 5 sons and a daughter imported from Korea, Taiwan and India. WOW! 8!!! Awesome! I have half that many at home. Dont see how you do it. Arent they great though? I dont enjoy anything in life as much as I enjoy being a mom. BaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** | >Thanks Robyn, | >Glad to hear it. My child is 9+ yrs old so I have well passed the 'need [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | Mum of 8 kids: 2 homemade daughters and 5 sons and a daughter imported | from Korea, Taiwan and India. > >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it is NOT a support group - more of a place to vent and discuss. Feel free > to join in :) I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child out of her mind ". Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be in your best interest to let me see my child ". Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? As if you just merely gave birth, thats a derogatory term created by the adoption industry to minimize the natural mothers importance, in the eyes of adopters. The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . See Adopters like to use this word against you as in " She's just your birthmother, I,m your real mother". When the fact is your that kids natural mother. Have a sense of entitlement to your child if your worried enough about where he is at. Good Luck Scarlett | > >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is only | > > for adoptees? adoptees and adoptive parents? are birth parents welcome? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | I find it amazing that any natural mother can simply " put her child | out of her mind ". Oh my child is never out of my mind. I love (K) dearly and (K) is no more or less my child than my other children are who are not adopted. It is just that I am at peace with my decision. When I went to court and made the final decision to release (K) for adoption I did not just release physical custody. I turned it all over to (K)'s parents. They are the ones up at night with the fevers, they are the ones who hear the cries from a skinned knee, they are the ones who will get the stomping or slammed doors during the teen years. I also released to them the right to be called (K)'s mommy and daddy. They are the ones who will watch the kindergarten graduation with pride, who will help with the christmas play costume, etc. I did my part in being a mom who loved my child enough to realize that in order to the best for my child adoption was the answer. I gave my child the best I was capable of at the time...just like I do with my other children. | Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". | First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why | not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? | Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be | in your best interest to let me see my child ". NO WAY would I ever consider that. They are (K)'s parents. I gave up my rights to step into that parenting role with (K). I would imagine that that kind of thing would be an adoptive parents nightmare. I do know all about them. I kow where they live, their names, jobs etc. However it is their role in (K)'s life to be the parental figures. I chose them for that role. For now my role was to continue a pregnancy that was extremely difficult to go through with. To stay healthy for (K) and to give birth to (K) and then to make the decisions that would give my child all the things I desired for it. | Second of all what is with the natural mothers here, still using the | archaic term "birthmother and firstmother " ? Whats that all about ? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | Good Luck | Scarlett I am (K)'s birth mother, mom, biological parent, natural parent or whatever you want to call it. I gave birth to my child and I provided the things a parent should. A home, a stable family, enough food to eat, access to a good education, clothing, etc etc. (K)'s parents physically provide these things but I provided them by choosing adoption and choosing them as parents. I am no more or less important to my childs life than the adoptive mom is. If it werent for my choice to give birth instead of abort then (K) would even be here. Now thats a pretty big deal. What I did is something that neither of (K)'s a-parents could do. On the other hand they physically raise (K). They provide her with all of her needs. They fill a role in her life I was not able to fill (K). (K) is lucky to not only have parents who biologically are linked to (K) but to also have adoptive parents who are linked to (K) in a different way. We both provided (K) with things the other couldnt and together have produced a lovely and well loved child. PS I dont find any of those terms derogitory. In fact natural mother sounds silly to me. Naturally I am (K)'s mom becausse I gave birth to (K) but the adoptive mother is naturally a mother too since she is her legal child and she has chosen to take on the role of mother to a child. SO I guess if I am a natural mom then so is (K)'s mom. >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com >Date: 11/25/2004 3:20 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <xTspd.58719$IQ.46948@bignews6.bellsouth.net> >PS I dont find any of those terms derogitory. In fact natural mother sounds >silly to me. Naturally I am (K)'s mom becausse I gave birth to (K) but the >adoptive mother is naturally a mother too since she is her legal child and >she has chosen to take on the role of mother to a child. SO I guess if I am >a natural mom then so is (K)'s mom. Scarlett's going to revoke your birthmom membership for that one. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown | >Subject: Re: Wondering | >From: "BaD a.s Me" badassme@bellsouth.com [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | | Scarlett's going to revoke your birthmom membership for that one. CRAP! And I just had my card laminated! SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** Ah yes, the birthmom union. Almost as bad as the adoptee union. L. > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >out of her mind ". > I note the quote marks, what are you quoting from? I haven't seen anyone here say that they put their child out of their mind. I can assure you that there is very small minority who can and do do that. >Its so far in denial to assume that "your child is in good hands ". >First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I thought you said that you do understand the difference between your and you're, obviously not though. So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who willingly gives up the child to an adoptive mother who is married to the man who provided the sperm. In this case who is the natural mother, who are the natural parents? Isn't the term natural mother somewhat meaningless really? Robin > > > > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Robin Robin, I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is no notice stating proper grammar is a must . This is a public message board. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your just being a hypocrite . Whats really a shame is you lack material for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the others. I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm sure. Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers here , will respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same complaint gets really boring. Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett >>So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is >>fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . >Scarlett In other words, in this case, yeah, it's a pretty meaningless term. In point of fact, although the egg would carry the genetic information of the donor mother, it would share the blood, literally, of the gestational mother in utero, and spend nine months in the gestational mother's biorhythmic ecology, experiencing her heartbeat, etc, experiences that I've seen natural mothers say is of paramount importance to bonding with their children. This reminds me of "Every Sperm is Sacred", or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. There is nothing "natural" about discourse on the terms of motherhood and relinquishment, it is a construction, a battle over representation. For that matter there isn't anything "natural" about discourses on nature. On the one hand I believe that people should define themselves experientially and autonomously; I don't have a problem with mothers who relinquished taking charge of how they are represented. On the other hand, I feel that essentialist terms like "natural mother" are reactionary, indeed mothers who relinquished used to be called the "natural mothers" up til the sixties, and could hardly be said to have benefited much by the term. In part this was because the term "natural" was denigrated in those days, and in today's society "natural" is a value-added phrase denoting quality and authenticity. This is all fluid, though, and can change fairly quickly. Ron Ron > >>> So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which >>> is fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Ron Yep, I don't have any problem with people calling themselves whatever they want. But if a particular class can't accept and agree on a single non-pejorative name for itself then it can't expect the rest of us to. From now on I'm simply going to refer to my egg holder as Jean, then if anyone asks, who's that? I'm simply going to say she "my egg holder" and leave it at that, comfortable in the knowledge that the authoritative Ms Scarlett has approved it as term for any women who carries a child in her uterus from blastocyst to partition, but who does not continue to nurture him or her through to adulthood. Robin > >>So suppose one woman, the genetic mother, provides the ovum, which is > >>fertilized in vitro and implanted in to a gestational mother who [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Surmised quite well. Every aspect was cover in your post . From the emotional to scientific. Nice to have an intelligent perspective. Scarlett > > Ms Scarlett wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >>Robin >> >Robin, > > I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you > can get the meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > respect originality in its purest form . And repetition of the same > complaint gets really boring. I'll give you the same answer to that as I once gave to guy we used to call MoRon Ron. If it's not important to you, then it's not important to you, Ms Scarlett, but, to most of us, constantly typing "your" when what you mean to say is "you are" or "you're", marks you out as a person who is too bone idle and feckless to bother to learn a few simple rules. You might just as well wear a big badge saying 'Ill Educated Yob' or even 'TROLL'. For those of us who have learnt to read at a speed that no longer allows for lip movement, proper punctuation makes a great deal of difference to readability. We all occasionally accidentally leave out an apostrophe, that is a result of typing at a speed that can't keep up with the our own speed of thought, that is what is known as a 'typo'. Mistakes of omission and commission, repeated over and over again, are not 'typos', they are a clear sign of a person who is not sufficiently astute to understand the rules. You can bet a person who doesn't understand the simple rules of punctuation and grammar, won't understand a more complex argument, and we've seen you prove that here over and over again in the last week or so. > Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the owner of the > egg. She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only > obtained through blood relation. That is the natural mother . How the egg is > grown is meaningless . If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow > anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down to the "egg holder". That's > nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . Scarlett Ok then, as I'm not all that keen on the phrase, natural mother, I shall in future refer to Jean (my genetic and birth mother) as my "egg holder" in all future conversation. But I'm sure from tomorrow morning onwards every time I slip my breakfast egg in to it's egg-cup. I shall collapse in an uncontrollable fit of laughter. Robin > Ms Scarlett wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] > > Robin Guess if I ever catch up with my "sperm donor " as some of our past participants have referred to all natural fathers, I shall have to call him Milt. Robin > Ms Scarlett wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] > > Robin Robin, Where exactly are these rules that you are writing about ? Not only are you B0RING ME to death. Personally you have taken it upon your self to attempt to annoy me with grammar flames. If my posts are too hard for you to read, you do not have to read them. Seems as though you have the problem, not me. Thats like saying "my arm hurts when I burn it with a cigarette", Well then don't burn it with the cigarette. And if it's too labor intensive to read my posts don't. Because crying like a bitch about it, just makes you look bad. Dad has the ability to make me laugh and Robyn actually makes sense at times and there are others here who shine through for their witty sarcasm and comments. You just come across as a nag and a bore. Your the poodle amongst the pitbulls . Now if you want to insult me, pick on something a little better than grammar, quit making up ettiquette rules and write something witty . Its not so hard, Dad and Robyn and the others seem able to manage that. Why can't you ? Sit back and watch how the big kids do it and then follow suit. Grab a hold of a limb and quit nipping at the heels , poodle girl . Straighten yourself up and stop crying and , like a baby, over grammar. Everyone gets my point and I have several posts here to prove that . Waaaaaaaaa. Careful Robin if the crying continues, I,ll have to put something in your mouth. I have just the pacifier for you. Scarlett >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) >Date: 11/26/2004 1:03 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <54767e41.0411261203.321cf6@posting.google.com> >Robin, > Where exactly are these rules that you are writing about ? Try Emily Post: Q: I cant spell worth a dam. I hope your going too tell me what to do? A: Don't worry about how your articles look. Remember it's the message that counts, not the way it's presented. Ignore the fact that sloppy spelling in a purely written forum sends out the same silent messages that soiled clothing would when addressing an audience. Not only >are you B0RING ME to death. but what? > Personally you have taken it upon your self to attempt to annoy me >with grammar flames. So what? > If my posts are too hard for you to read, you do not have to read >them. You're posting in a public forum. If you don't want people to read them, why are you posting them? > Seems as though you have the problem, not me. > Thats like saying "my arm hurts when I burn it with a cigarette", >Well then don't burn it with the cigarette. And if it's too labor >intensive to read my posts don't. But they're so witty and intelligent! Because crying like a bitch about >it, just makes you look bad. Rut row, Robin's a bitch! > Dad has the ability to make me laugh when you're not fantasizing about his dick and Robyn actually makes sense >at times when you're not fantasizing about filling her up with your snap-on tools >and there are others here who shine through for their witty >sarcasm and comments. You just come across as a nag and a bore. Oh dear. Nag nag nag, Robin. Your >the poodle amongst the pitbulls . Can we all laugh at that one? Now if you want to insult me, pick >on something a little better than grammar, quit making up ettiquette >rules and write something witty . Boo hoo Its not so hard, Then when are you going to start? >Dad and Robyn and the others seem able to manage that. Why can't you ? Because this seems to annoy you the most? >Sit back and watch how the big kids do it and then follow suit. Grab a >hold of a limb and quit nipping at the heels , poodle girl . Poodle girl? ROFLMAO >Straighten yourself up and stop crying and , like a baby, over >grammar. Everyone gets my point and I have several posts here to prove >that . Waaaaaaaaa. Careful Robin if the crying continues, I,ll have to >put something in your mouth. I have just the pacifier for you. Ok Robin, run like hell. Now she's fantasizing about you, and she was talking about smegma earlier. Run Robin Run! >Scarlett ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >>Subject: Re: Wondering >>From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) [quoted text clipped - 131 lines] > > Oh that's what she was trying to say, smegma, cheesy knob rot in English school boy language, I thought she was on about some sort Swedish household appliance manufactured my Smeg. I wondered how in her strange fantasy world anyone could get a fridge or a cooker stuck to their dick. Robin >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Robin Harritt ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos >Date: 11/26/2004 1:41 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <30pinlF2v6uuuU8@uni-berlin.de> >Ok Robin, run like hell. Now she's fantasizing about you, and she was talking >about smegma earlier. Run Robin Run! >Oh that's what she was trying to say, smegma, cheesy knob rot in English >school boy language, I thought she was on about some sort Swedish >household appliance manufactured my Smeg. I wondered how in her strange >fantasy world anyone could get a fridge or a cooker stuck to their dick. > >Robin I have a feeling that Scarlett isn't on close personal terms with soap and water either. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown <snip> >> Ok Robin, run like hell. Now she's fantasizing about you, and she was >> talking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Robin Oh, dear. What an unbelievable nest of images this kind of language builds! I do believe I'm happy that the kitchen and I no longer have any kind of relationship ;-) pb... >> Ms Scarlett wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 170 lines] > > Scarlett Just what exactly do you have against Robyn? Marley >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) >Date: 11/26/2004 1:06 AM Eastern Standard Time >Message-id: <54767e41.0411252206.642fcea4@posting.google.com> < snip > >Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the >owner of the egg. >She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only >obtained through blood relation. >That is the natural mother . How the egg is grown is meaningless . My mother, the test tube. >If a woman can produce an egg healthy enough to grow anywhere, >thats her baby. Ummm, you're forgettng the natural father. >So it all boils down to the "egg holder". >That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . < chuckle > Diane, I think you released this trainee too soon. Dad "Scarlett West" <Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Now, pertaining to your question. The natural mother would be the > owner of the egg. > She is, the carrier of the genes, and other shared qualities only > obtained through blood relation. > That is the natural mother . She is also the biological mother - which is the term I prefer. Everybody gets the right to call the players what they want to. >How the egg is grown is meaningless . Hardly. Without that ability it is nothing more than an egg. Care for an omelet? If > a woman can produce an egg > healthy enough to grow anywhere, thats her baby. So it all boils down > to the "egg holder". Nope. Despite your attempt to portray the bmother as the be all and end all, that's not the case. > That's nature. Whoever produces the egg is the natural mother . *Your* definition. Not everybody's definition. Nobody died and made you Queen. Kathy 1 > Scarlett >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) >Date: 11/25/2004 11:06 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <54767e41.0411252206.642fcea4@posting.google.com> > Robin, >I hope you can do better than grammar flame. It is apparent, that you >can get the >meaning of what's written, otherwise why bother posting things >directed at me ? I don't see any rules of formality here and the is >no notice stating proper grammar is a must . Are you as slovenly in real life as you are in your postings? This is a public message >board. No it isn't. It's a newsgroup. I have looked at a few of your own previous postings with >errors, but really could care less to mention them. So unless >everything you have ever written in your life has been perfect, your you're >just being a hypocrite . A typo here and there is usually ignored. What you've done is come in here and sneered at another's (lack of) education, when you can barely string two sentences together coherently. Well, that and some creepy pornographic and snap-on tool references, but that's another flame issue. >Whats really a shame is you lack material >for proper flaming. Is the "best" you can do ? Nah, we're just warming up. > I mean its not like everyone else has been grammar flaming me. Wow >you've something original there ! Let's try and use a little more >imagination next time. Stop stealing flaming material from the >others. Yeah, Robin! Stop stealing our flame material. Wait a minute...that's what adoptees do! With ACS and all! Carry on! >I have other qualities that you can flame on besides that, I'm >sure. Does your labia flap? That's always good for a flame or two. >Plagiarism is not an admirable quality. I can assure you, your peers >here , will respect originality in its purest form . Eh, you can't assure him of anything. I always respect a good fuckfest in its purest form. And how many ways can you use the word "f.ck" in an original way? I think we've covered most of them at one time or another. And repetition of >the same complaint gets really boring. Wah. To you, maybe. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown > >Subject: Re: Wondering >>From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > you're Not to mention that the correct expression is "couldn't care less". Signature--------- Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 > Does your labia flap? That's always good for a flame or two. HOLD ON A SEC! Is this "flap" a noun or a verb? Makes a f.cking big difference, ya know! <beg> pb... >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: "pb..." woodlark-99@newsguy.com [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >pb... Oh my. Patty said the f-word. LOL ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is >> >only [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Good Luck > Scarlett What are you--a NCFA troll? Marley >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) >Date: 11/25/2004 2:53 PM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <54767e41.0411251353.7333c040@posting.google.com> >The term "birthmother" and " firstmother" is actually considered >offensive and demeaning to all natural mothers . If you have a problem with it, don't use it. My birth mother prefers it. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Giftofpeace1@hotmail.com (Scarlett West) [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >First of all if you have an address as to where you child lives, why >not go there and check up on him, with them knowing about it ? Why bother letting them know about? After all, they stole him through adoption. You would be entirely within your rights to sneak through the back door and snatch him back. Free him from the bondage of slavery that is adoption. Break his shackles and rescue him from that deep dark dungeon. He'll be forever grateful. >Or knock on the door, look then in the eye and tell them " It would be >in your best interest to let me see my child ". Yes, and be sure not to blink. Practice your most intimidating snarl in the mirror before you go. His fake parents will tremble in fear at the sight of you, just like those parental wanna bees did when Scarlett busted down the door of the courthouse. Dad >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is >> >only [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Good Luck > Scarlett What makes you think we care what you think about what terminology we use for our parents? My birthmother and birthfather didn't and don't mind the terminology, it is only the outer lunatic fringe that cares. KL | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | >> >only [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] | | KL I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child calls me. I really just want her to be comfortable with it. This makes about as much sense to me as arguing over what a chld calls their grandparents. I call one grandfather, the other pee-paw. One is granny and the other is Joann. My granny was called --granny granny--woo woo--granny--and alot of other stuff by her grand chldren and grgrand chldren. In fact this whole thing reminds of the Dr Suess movie. Thing one and Thing two...Thing two says that his name in no insenuates (sp) he is inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is > | >> >only [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > | KL > |KL Never said you "cared" . And personally could "care" less about your opinion. You natural parents obviously were unaware of of the adoption industry labels placed upon them. But as I see, being oblivious must run in the family. And for your term " lunatic fringe" how many times have you assocoiated with that ? There are plenty of names we can call you, but some are more fitting than others. Just ask your natural mom. > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > inferior to Thing one. In fact he will accept Thing A, King Thing, Super > Thing, Chocolate Thunda! or Ben. ITs really kinda funny if youve seen it. For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" only used in a derogatory sense. Most adoption groups use the term "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . Many from the previous generations are not aware, that this is improper language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , consider the term an insult. But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. Scarlett >> | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group >> is [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" > only used in a derogatory sense Gee, thta must be why CUB used "birth parents." . Most adoption groups use the term > "natural mother". I used to use "natural" in the context of bio and still do on occasion, but people like you made me stop using it. I like "original" myself. But it also may be the area you are from . Many from > the previous generations are not aware, that this is improper > language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , > consider the term an insult. CUB invented the term. Take it up with them. > But as times change and just as previous derogatory terms are no > longer used and deemed incorrect, its a matter of information. The > majority internet groups have already stopped using this term out of > respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. > Scarlett Why use any term other than breeder for female and male, bio and adoptive aparents (or any other kind of parents) at all. "Mother" and "father" are nothing more than sentimental terms for a biological function. As we childfree call ya'll" Moo and Duh. Marley Marley opines: >I used to use "natural" in the context of bio and still do on occasion, but >people like you made me stop using it. I like "original" myself.> I do, too, because "extra crispy" is way too greasy. P2P > Marley opines: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > P2P Bwwwaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bmoms. The the white meat. Marley Scarlett rants about the word "birthmother": > Most mother's I know , >consider the term an insult.>> Oh. I think I can guess who you hang out with. Could it be the "One and Only Center of the Universe First and Most Important Mothers Who Gave Birth to a Child that Was Ripped From Their Arms by the Conspiracy of Evil Unnatural Baby Snatchers Coalition"? P2P > Scarlett rants about the word "birthmother": > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > P2P There you go again! Givin' all the credit to dem lousy "Conspiracy of Evil Unnatural Baby Snatchers Coalition!" Sheesh, Woman -- when are ya gonna start givin' dem Cat-O-Licks some of the credit they so richly deserve...eh? pb... | > | >> >I have read some of the posts here and am wondering if this group is | > | >> >only [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] | than others. | Just ask your natural mom. In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms they use in replying. If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing her situation. We were taught to accept the terms she felt comfortable using. After all it wasnt about us but about her. So I guess each person should use the terms they are most comfortable with and respect that others may not be comfortable with the same ones. | > I gotta wonder what the big deal is. This is honestly the first time I have | > ever heard anyone complain about it. I couldnt care less what my child [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | For the past few years I have seen "birthmother" | only used in a derogatory sense. I have tried but can imagine how bmom can be derogitory. Most adoption groups use the term | "natural mother". But it also may be the area you are from . LOL, not sure how to take that. Lets see, I live in and am originally from what is considered a boarder state, (neither union or conf) however I have lived out west, up north and further south. My child was adopted by a family who lives in the south west. In all the places I have been I have pretty much heard the same terms used for adoption and those involved. Many from | the previous generations are not aware, ROFLOL, really not sure about this one. While I am not a teenager anymore I am certainly not ancient. I am only in my 30's. I assume you thought me older because I do have a number of children but let me assure I was a child bride. (16) and a child mother (18). Besides my childrens age group use the same terms about adoption as I do, and most others I have heard. My mothers generation did talk some about adoption. In fact some of her friends were adopted but it seems that the subject was quite hush hush and an adoptee generally found out about the 'status' at an older age-teens or adulthood. My grandmothers generation...well I can only go by how my granny was with my adoption and it was an embaressing subject for her. I should never mention it. "People didnt talk about such things" that this is improper | language when refering to natural mothers. Most mother's I know , | consider the term an insult. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | respect. A google search shows its being used with more frequency. | Scarlett I wonder, you seem so pationate about the terms 'natural-mother' and 'adoptive-mother' being used correctly. Would it be proper for (K)'s mom to call her the adopted-child and the other her natural-child? If one is the natural-mother, and I think I get why you use natural, what then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being derogitory towards the adoptive family? SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** > | "BaD a.s Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message > news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > In training to working with expectant mothers I was taught to use the terms > they use in replying. So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is > 'correct' or considered 'acceptable' by some is irrelevant when discussing [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being > derogitory towards the adoptive family? | > | "BaD a.s Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message | > news:<wzxpd.60866$IQ.51455@bignews6.bellsouth.net>... [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] | | So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much. After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in contact with some of 'my ladies' and in fact recently recieved a new picture of 'my boy'. I first met his momma the day I told her she was probably preg. and followed through pregnancy, delivery, stayed in the hosp. with her and we'eve been friends ever since. She says we share her son, LOL. I made some wonderful friends and am blessed to still keep in touch with them. Oh and it wasnt counselling preg. women. I talked with more non preg women than preg ones. I was not a licensed counselor. I was only there for support and information, referalls if needed and basically just a bouncing board for their concerns. I didnt direct women in which way to go or give them advice I simply was there for them when needed. Mostly they just wanted someone to voice their concerns or fears too who wasnt family or friend. Sometimes I shared personal experiences that I had if it related to what they were talking about and they shared theirs with me. That room was basically just a safe, confidental place to cry, shout, laugh, yell, be angry, happy, sorry, make decisions and change your mind and then be able to leave, hopefully feeling more sure about your situation and with some idea of how you might handle it. Very rarely I met with couples. When that came up my husband, also took training courses, met with us. It seemed to put the guys more at ease and hubby could relate to issues I couldnt. It was a great experience but eventually I became so attachec to some of the girls and women and their situations that it became more of an emotional experience than it should have been on my part and because I began to feel as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I know to a 15 yr old that is ancient. | If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. | > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] | > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being | > derogitory towards the adoptive family? > | "BaD a.s Me" <badassme@bellsouth.com> wrote in message > news:<A1Lpd.117123$Tq1.16899@bignews1.bellsouth.net>... [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > as though my age interefered with building a trust. Im in my 30's and I > know to a 15 yr old that is ancient. oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise? Were you allowed to let them know how adoption worked for you and how blessed your own experience has been through chosing adoption over say, abortion? How many mothers would you have supported in this way and can I ask how many in your estimation would have ended up chosing adoption, abortion, or keeping their babies? Sorry for all the questions. Were you working as a volunteer for a family planning clinic or something of that nature or did you work independantly from home? Di > | If she refers to her fetus as it, then we say it too. > | > If she says give the baby up we do too. Whether the term she uses is [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > | > then makes the other mother the un-natural-mother? Isnt that being > | > derogitory towards the adoptive family? > > >> >>| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? >>| >> >>Not anymore. I spent a few years doing that and enjoyed it very much. >>After I moved to another state I chose not to do it any more. I am still in [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >Di > Don't be sorry for asking those questions Di, I'm sure a number of inquiring minds would like to know. Robin >Subject: Re: Wondering >From: Robin Harritt ninguém@não.hoje.agradecimentos >Date: 11/28/2004 5:16 AM Mountain Standard Time >Message-id: <30ttsaF34565nU1@uni-berlin.de> >>oh right. When you say you weren't a consellor do you mean you were >>more of a support person for women considering adoption or otherwise? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Robin Yep. ------------------------- A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" -----Unknown | >>| So you are involved in counselling pregnant women? | [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] | | Robin Oh and while I mainly worked out of the home I did take work home on many weekends by answering the 24 hr line from home. SignatureBaD a.s Me **My opinions might have changed but not the fact that I am right!** |
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