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Family Forum / Parenting / Adoption / December 2006



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Interesting column: "Hoopla shouldn't surround adoption"

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lenona321@yahoo.com - 14 Nov 2006 11:06 GMT
I've always agreed with the basic premise of this column, which was
printed this week. What's fascinating about this, I think, is the last
three paragraphs.

Lenona.

Hoopla shouldn't surround adoption

Long-standing readers of this column know that I believe no hoopla
should or needs to be made concerning adoption. I am convinced that
many of the standard recommendations dispensed by so-called "adoption
experts" are silly, pointless, and even counterproductive. These
include repeatedly telling the child in question, before he's even able
to talk, that he is adopted, referring to the adoption at every
possible opportunity, singing "you're adopted" songs to the child when
he's a baby, and the like. My recommendation is to treat adoption as a
small deal, which all but ensures that it will never become a big one.

According to one adoption professional who was once infuriated at my
heresy, I am recommending an approach that could result in "trauma" to
a child who discovers, on his own, that he was adopted. This is not
just far-fetched, but also an example of the general tendency among
mental health professionals to dumb-down the definition of trauma to
include any and all disruption of some baseline emotional state. Trauma
is not mere upset; it is prolonged suffering. I propose that a child
who becomes truly traumatized at the discovery that he was adopted was
already emotionally fragile for other reasons.

I am not, by the way, advocating that adopted children not be informed.
I simply believe they should not be told until it is either necessary
or they are old enough to truly comprehend the implications, ask
intelligent questions, and participate in a rational discussion of what
it means.

Once upon a time, people did not think that adoption was a big deal.
There were children who, for sundry reasons, had been or had to be
separated from their parents, and there were parents willing to take
them in and raise them as their own.

No one thought that this increased a child's risk of later problems,
and there is no evidence that it did. Today, however, adoption-babble
includes words and phrases like "attachment disorder," "bonding
issues," and, of course, "trauma" - all of which greatly increase the
likelihood that adoptive parents will tread on eggshells. It is almost
always the case that these eggshells eventually crack and beasts
emerge.

One such beast is the adopted teenager who suddenly decides, in the
throes of the "Poor, poor pitiful adopted me" soap-opera, that all of
her problems would be solved if she could find and go live with her
"real" parents. Every single time adoptive parents have asked my advice
concerning this adolescent drama, they have affirmed that they followed
the standard advice and made the adoption a Big Deal from day one.

Some parents recognize the babble for what it is. One such adoptive mom
recently told me, in an email, that she and her husband have never sat
down with their daughter to have the "Big Talk." The child knows she is
adopted. No effort has been made to hide it from her, but the subject
is not brought up unless "it is relevant to what is going on or being
discussed." That's eminently sensible. The adoption is not taboo, but
neither is it The Sole Source of Meaning in the Child's Life.

I have a friend who did not discover that he was adopted until he was
19 years old, and even then quite by serendipity. When he asked his
parents why they never told him, they answered that it made no
difference to them. And that was that.

The explanation was satisfactory, and my friend went on to become a
highly successful professional, but more important, a truly decent
human being.

Again, never telling the child is not my recommendation, but I offer
the story as evidence that when molehills are treated as molehills,
they are likely to remain molehills.

JOHN ROSEMOND
(the)duckster - 14 Nov 2006 12:48 GMT
> I have a friend who did not discover that he was adopted until he was
> 19 years old, and even then quite by serendipity. When he asked his
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> JOHN ROSEMOND

I have a nine year old daughter adopted from China and I find it hard to
believe that a child goes through its life not asking "how did I get here?"

Mine starting asking about growing in my tummy when she was about four or
so.  At that time I felt obliged to explain to her that she grew both in
another women's tummy as well as my heart.

That simple explaination of course had to be elaborated on as she grew more
aware of things.  Might have had to do with the fact she doesn't look like
us, but still I can't fathom a 19 year a young man finding out for the first
time he was not of his parent's flesh.

I will say that at this writing even though she says I'm not her original
mom, offers to go back to China someday to find her family get a big nyet
from her.  She doesn't even want to go back for the Olympics with Chinese
friends.  Raises hell everytime I mention it.

Who knows what lives in the minds of our children.

(the)duckster
J. - 14 Nov 2006 14:16 GMT
A little background on the modest Mr. Rosemond, whose opinions are
based on the type of rigorous study we've come to appreciate so well
here on a.a.

While he does make a few valid points, I suspect that his final
anecdote is far from representative.  I can't imagine why one would not
have told his 19 year old son of his adoption before he discovered it
for himself.

J.

About John Rosemond

Professional Credentials

John Rosemond has worked with families, children, and parents since
1971 in the field of family psychology. In 1971, John earned his
masters in psychology from Western Illinois University and was elected
to the Phi Kappa Phi National Honor Society. In 1999, his alma mater
conferred upon John the Distinguished Alumni Award, given only once per
year. Upon acceptance, he gave the commencement address.

>From 1971-1979, he worked as a psychologist in Illinois and North
Carolina and directed several mental-health programs for children.

>From 1980-1990. John was in full-time practice as a family psychologist
with Piedmont Psychological Associates in Gastonia.

Presently, his time is devoted to speaking and writing. John is
syndicated in approximately 225 newspapers nationwide. He has written
eleven best-selling parenting books. He is also one of America's
busiest and most popular speakers and most certainly the busiest and
most popular in his field.

Rosemond.com...in touch with common sense.

http://rosemond.com/index.php?action=website-view&WebSiteID=389&WebPageID=9926

> I've always agreed with the basic premise of this column, which was
> printed this week. What's fascinating about this, I think, is the last
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> JOHN ROSEMOND
lenona321@yahoo.com - 27 Nov 2006 20:35 GMT
I always like reading valid criticisms of Rosemond, despite my being a
fan, but this one is suspiciously vague to the point of making me think
the author is more interested in whining than in making any valid
points.
Lenona.

Roanoke Times:

Rosemond should stick with what he knows

John Rosemond's Nov. 13 column, "Don't make adoption into a big deal,"
is condescending and offensive to anyone who has ever been involved in
the adoption process.

He puts down the adoptive parents who have educated their infant
children by teasing that they have just been singing "you're adopted
songs at every possible opportunity," and he states that people
traumatized by finding out later in life were "already emotionally
fragile for other reasons."

Rosemond also claims that long ago adoptions were due to "sundry"
reasons with "willing" adoptive parents to the rescue, while today's
adoptees sing a "poor pitiful ... me" song.

Give me a break! Using terms like "sundry," etc., only magnify the
sensitivities that he insisted on down-playing.

My adoption 40 years ago did not happen due to "sundry" reasons. My
parents were not just "willing" to adopt me, but wanted me due to their
inability to have children and, yes, they educated me before I could
speak.

I am thankful, for both my adoptive parents and my biological parents
faced a difficult decision. Adoption is very complex for all involved,
and not all individuals handle the situation equally.

SUSAN HUGER
BUENA VISTA
Lilmtncbn - 28 Nov 2006 18:07 GMT
On Nov 27, 1:35pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I always like reading valid criticisms of Rosemond, despite my being a
> fan, but this one is suspiciously vague to the point of making me think
> the author is more interested in whining than in making any valid
> points.
> Lenona.

Damn those whiny adoptees!  They should just STFU and let Rosemond tell
them how they are supposed to feel.  The nerve of those little bastards!
Robin Harritt - 28 Nov 2006 18:26 GMT
> On Nov 27, 1:35�pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I always like reading valid criticisms of Rosemond, despite my being a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Damn those whiny adoptees!  They should just STFU and let Rosemond tell
> them how they are supposed to feel.  The nerve of those little bastards!

Can someone tell me WTF is Rosemond, just for the benefit of us non Americans?

Robin
(the)duckster - 28 Nov 2006 18:52 GMT
Lilmtncbn wrote:

> On Nov 27, 1:35?pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I always like reading valid criticisms of Rosemond, despite my being a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Damn those whiny adoptees!  They should just STFU and let Rosemond tell
> them how they are supposed to feel.  The nerve of those little bastards!

Can someone tell me WTF is Rosemond, just for the benefit of us non
Americans?

Robin

John Rosemond is a well-known child psychologist.  He has a no-nonsense
style and considers most child centered theories of the last 30years to be
psyco-babble spouted by pseudo-social workers and others who consider
themselves experts in the same field.

If you google him, you'll get a ton of links.

(the)duckster
lenona321@yahoo.com - 28 Nov 2006 19:55 GMT
> Can someone tell me WTF is Rosemond, just for the benefit of us non
> Americans?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> (the)duckster

Well-known in a relative sense. That is, he's well-known in the
Southern states and the Midwest, but not in, say, areas like Los
Angeles or New York City. (He VERY seldom gives seminars in the
Northeast in general.) I mentioned him to syndicated columnist Miss
Manners (Judith Martin) and she had never heard of him.

His stances on politics and religion tend to irritate me, but
thankfully, he usually keeps them separate from his child-rearing
columns. One book of his is titled "Because I Said So!" (it's a
collection of selected one-page columns), but at the same time, he
likes to say "I am not the anti-Spock." (He feels Spock's been
misinterpreted a lot and given a bad rap.) He made Dr. Laura furious in
2000 when he told the mother of a 4-year-old, in effect, that her son
is quite old enough to be in an after-school program so she can work
outside the home, whether the boy approves or not, and that in general,
she should start making the boy revolve around her, not the other way
around. (JR and DL tended to agree on a lot of things otherwise - I
don't know whether she approves of him anymore.)

"Teen-Proofing" and "Parent Power!" are other books of his I'd
recommend. I suspect Brits would approve of him.

Lenona.
(the)duckster - 29 Nov 2006 12:04 GMT
> > Can someone tell me WTF is Rosemond, just for the benefit of us non
> > Americans?
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Lenona.
I've never read any of his views on religion or politics, but the local
paper carries his column and he comes through at least once a year on a
speaking tour, usually sponsored by one of the mega churches.

(the)duckster
J. - 29 Nov 2006 13:27 GMT
Can someone tell me WTF is Rosemond, just for the benefit of us non
Americans?

Repost:

About John Rosemond

Professional Credentials

John Rosemond has worked with families, children, and parents since
1971 in the field of family psychology. In 1971, John earned his
masters in psychology from Western Illinois University and was elected
to the Phi Kappa Phi National Honor Society. In 1999, his alma mater
conferred upon John the Distinguished Alumni Award, given only once per

year. Upon acceptance, he gave the commencement address.

>From 1971-1979, he worked as a psychologist in Illinois and North
Carolina and directed several mental-health programs for children.

>From 1980-1990. John was in full-time practice as a family psychologist

with Piedmont Psychological Associates in Gastonia.

Presently, his time is devoted to speaking and writing. John is
syndicated in approximately 225 newspapers nationwide. He has written
eleven best-selling parenting books. He is also one of America's
busiest and most popular speakers and most certainly the busiest and
most popular in his field.

Rosemond.com...in touch with common sense.

http://rosemond.com/index.php?action=website-view&WebSiteID=389&WebPa...
Atalanta - 30 Nov 2006 01:43 GMT
> I've always agreed with the basic premise of this column, which was
> printed this week. What's fascinating about this, I think, is the last
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> he's a baby, and the like. My recommendation is to treat adoption as a
> small deal, which all but ensures that it will never become a big one.

I'm guessing that, as an adoptee, and after almost 40 years of
involvement with "adoption groups" and interviewing or knowing hundreds
of adoptees  and their parents - I know a few  adoptees and their
stories.

I know exactly one person who took the so-called "hoopla" route - and I
see her quite frequently.  Has this suddenly changed in the world that
Rosemond inhabits?

Anyway - he's just being belligerent.

> According to one adoption professional who was once infuriated at my
> heresy, I am recommending an approach that could result in "trauma" to
> a child who discovers, on his own, that he was adopted. This is not
> just far-fetched,

unfortunately - I know way more people who found it traumatic to find
out "on their own."  The reason behind that should be obvious to a
psychologist (which, despite credentials, I'd say that Rosemond is not
- not in this viewpoint, anyway).  Secrets are usually kept when
something is shameful.  Do you think Rosemond could figure out the rest
of the "trauma"?

I don't think anyone is saying that kids are screwed for life if this
happens to them - but why go against years of anecdotal and researched
opinion and risk the trauma?

Kids need to be told - and this whole thing about "when they can
understand" is, pardon me, bullshit.  Passive language ability far
outstrips active language ability - so a kid will be wondering long
before they ask - and some kids, especially the less verbal ones, never
will.  So we screw them over by not telling them?  Give me a break.

It should simply be mentioned - on occasion - the way a bioparent
mentions what the weather was like on the day a baby was born or how
they felt when they first saw the baby.  Don't people have photo albums
anymore?  My kids were interested in pictures of people by age 6-9
months (especially pictures of babies - and by 12 months, specifically
interested in pictures of themselves).  At 12 months, both my daughters
enjoyed looking at their baby pictures - and I told them as a story,
about the day that they were born.  Had they been adopted, I would have
told them about the day we "got them."  That's what my parents did -
and while you can probably fashion a better phrase than "got you," it
never bothered me.  I LOVED that story as a kid - and asked for it
every once in awhile, and got more details.  It was not traumatic.

I was 15 months old, btw, when my parents told me the "story" of how I
came to be with them - while we were looking at photos.  I heard it
again a year later, under similar circumstances.  No big deal - was
quite proud of my special status, actually.

but also an example of the general tendency among
> mental health professionals to dumb-down the definition of trauma to
> include any and all disruption of some baseline emotional state. Trauma
> is not mere upset; it is prolonged suffering. I propose that a child
> who becomes truly traumatized at the discovery that he was adopted was
> already emotionally fragile for other reasons.

See above.  Now Rosemond is the one dumbing things down.  Amazing.

It's not a trauma if it's not a secret - but if it's treated like a
secret, there can be a reason.  Try this story:

A woman calls me at 11 at night.  Her six year old son has just
discovered he's adopted (how?  by asking his older sister some
questions - who knows how it was delivered, but now he's in the kitchen
asking his mom questions, and she calls me (whispering), "What do I say
now?")  I didn't do the "I told you so" thing right then (I wanted to).
I just gave her a few late night tips on what to say to Sam.  She
wanted permission, since Sam really likes me, to start out with,
"Atalanta is adopted too."

An hour later (midnight), she calls again, "He wants to know if that's
why his skin color is different too?"

Not the best way to deal with adoption issues, thunk?

Rosemond is an idiot.

> I am not, by the way, advocating that adopted children not be informed.
> I simply believe they should not be told until it is either necessary

It's necessary the instant they are whisked away from their biomoms.
Duh.  It's immediately NECESSARY - so stupid head Rosemond ends up
advocating (without his left brain knowing what his right brain is
doing, actually) telling a newborn????

> or they are old enough to truly comprehend the implications,

Well gee - I'm gettin' pret' darn old, now and I still don't "truly"
comprehend all the implications.  Indeed, just today when asked my
cancer risk so I could determine whether to spend extra health
insurance money for the "cancer plus plan" I thought about how much I'd
like to know about the two grandparents who died young.  I bought the
cancer plus plan.  I wonder what the implication of that truly will be
for my budget.

ask
> intelligent questions, and participate in a rational discussion of what
> it means.

Completely stupid approach.  It can be a warm and fuzzy convo, too -
need not be all rationalista.  What is he raising, anyway?  Human
children or robots?  Moms and dads need to be encouraged to trust their
instincts - and not to wait much past two or three.  Not to use some
psychologist's notion of "rational discussion."  Bleh - when the
feelings around adoption come up, that's the last thing a kid wants.
Bleh, bleh, quadruple bleh.

> Once upon a time, people did not think that adoption was a big deal.

Untrue - and since it is, that's why he puts it in fairy tale terms.
ALL cultures that have adoption - especially ones with high adoption
rates STILL consider it "a big deal" - perhaps not psychologically, but
in many other ways.  Still - I gotta say, as a person who has visited
many cultures (like Bali) where adoption or fostering is "no big deal"
that I sure wouldn't want my kids raised in the primitive type of
consciousness and averbal ignorance that prevails in so many places.  I
like civilization, myself.  I like enlightened intelligent beings (not
merely rational ones).  I like open, emotionally expressive, creative
people - and the cultures where "adoption is no big deal" (or
fostering, or whatever) are medieval.

> There were children who, for sundry reasons, had been or had to be
> separated from their parents, and there were parents willing to take
> them in and raise them as their own.

Yep - and people used to eat each other, and people used to have the
right to kill their family members instead of going through the state,
and people beat their kids, and my dad got whipped with barbed wire and
blah blah again.  So?

> No one thought that this increased a child's risk of later problems,
> and there is no evidence that it did.

It's unlikely that evidence of anything would be gathered if no one is
thinking about it.

Today, however, adoption-babble
> includes words and phrases like "attachment disorder," "bonding
> issues," and, of course, "trauma" - all of which greatly increase the
> likelihood that adoptive parents will tread on eggshells. It is almost
> always the case that these eggshells eventually crack and beasts
> emerge.

He must know a lot of eggshell treaders - which is an entirely
different issue.  Deal with that, Rosemond, don't go pretending to be
an expert on adoption.

So - people who were on eggshells with their kids make monsters?

> One such beast is the adopted teenager who suddenly decides, in the
> throes of the "Poor, poor pitiful adopted me" soap-opera, that all of
> her problems would be solved if she could find and go live with her
> "real" parents. Every single time adoptive parents have asked my advice
> concerning this adolescent drama, they have affirmed that they followed
> the standard advice and made the adoption a Big Deal from day one.

I've never seen this - ever.  I do research in this area, as well - and
have, for years (in addition to being an adoptee).  He's just nuts.

> Some parents recognize the babble for what it is. One such adoptive mom
> recently told me, in an email, that she and her husband have never sat
> down with their daughter to have the "Big Talk."

Who said anything about the Big Talk?  I thought there were adoption
songs and balloons?  What is he talking about?

The child knows she is
> adopted. No effort has been made to hide it from her, but the subject
> is not brought up unless "it is relevant to what is going on or being
> discussed." That's eminently sensible. The adoption is not taboo, but
> neither is it The Sole Source of Meaning in the Child's Life.

I think I know what he's trying to say - but he sure doesn't.

> I have a friend who did not discover that he was adopted until he was
> 19 years old, and even then quite by serendipity. When he asked his
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> highly successful professional, but more important, a truly decent
> human being.

Yeah - but one who knows way less than he could about the "nature" side
of the nature/nurture question.  I sure hope this isn't someone I know
- now in his early thirties (very successful by economic standards, a
doctor) who refuses to mention or see his biomom (who would love to
meet him).  I don't think that's decent or healthy, myself.

> Again, never telling the child is not my recommendation, but I offer
> the story as evidence that when molehills are treated as molehills,
> they are likely to remain molehills.

Yeah - that's the same thing incest perps say.

A.
lenona321@yahoo.com - 29 Dec 2006 17:57 GMT
Here's Rosemond's follow-up:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/living/health/16318254.htm

Lenona.
Marley Greiner - 29 Dec 2006 19:12 GMT
> Here's Rosemond's follow-up:
>
> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/living/health/16318254.htm
>
> Lenona.

This is worse than the original!  I need to go sharpen my ax now!

Marley

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http://bastardette.blogspot.com
http://theoconia.blogspot.com

Kathy - 30 Dec 2006 18:47 GMT
> > Here's Rosemond's follow-up:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> http://bastardette.blogspot.com
> http://theoconia.blogspot.com

LOL!  I'll help you carry it.

This Rosemond and amom clone sound an awful lot like the adad who shall
not be named on this ng.

"I had expressed my view on so-called "open" adoption, and the adoptive
mom agreed. "The (person or persons who contributed directly to the
child's genotype) need to move on,"

Kathy
Marley Greiner - 30 Dec 2006 18:57 GMT
>> > Here's Rosemond's follow-up:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Kathy

Carry your title of genotype proudly, Kathy.

Marley

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