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Family Forum / Parenting / Adoption / September 2008Adoption Abuse Documentation Project Needs Your Participation
If YOU or SOMEONE YOU KNOW has been adopted AND abused, we'd appreciate it if you sent them our way. Our main purpose is to show the world there are many of us - http://adopted-abused.com This project is attempting to show abuse in adoption is not an isolated incident, by collecting data on unreported abuse cases. * Adoptees who have been abused can register anonymously and do not have to name their abusers. * EVERY ADOPTEE that registers adds weight and presence to a problem that gets no recognition. * It's also an opportunity for Adoptees to share their stories and provide data about this population for future research. With your participation, we can reach critical mass and give this issue a voice. Thank you, admin@adopted-abused.com > If YOU or SOMEONE YOU KNOW has been adopted AND abused, we'd > appreciate it if you sent them our way. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > admin@adopted-abused.com What about bio kids that get abused? No organization for them?  SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. On Aug 6, 5:04�am, suki...@gmail.com wrote: > If YOU or SOMEONE YOU KNOW has been adopted AND abused, we'd > appreciate it if you sent them our way. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > ad...@adopted-abused.com I don't deny that some/many adoptees have been abused. But it seems to me that your very effort to collect this information demonstrates the lack of data to support your implied premise, i.e., that the incidence of abuse of adoptees is higher than among biological children. If it was presented as a hypothesis, that would be one thing; but simply seeking support for your pre-existing conclusion is another. J. to all: this is a documentation project. this isn't a lawsuit or a criminal trial. there might be only a handful of us - those of us who exist would like to know how many others are out there - we are an especially vulnerable population because there is a huge potential for abuse whenever a child is handed over to people they don't know - and because of how assimilation is accomplished, there is good reason for us to suspect we may be under reported at a higher rate - we just want to see how many will stand up and be counted. asking people to not take their stories to the grave with them is the only way i can think of to find out. we are a distinct population worthy of survey. many surveys are conducted by an anonymous volunteer population. these are not meant to be counted as hard evidence. but they are still of interest and can still provide revealing and valuable information about the way adoptions were handled and how they can be handled better. that is in everyone's best interest, no matter what side of any raging adoption battle you are on. some of us did not report anonymously. some of us reported the names of our abusers. others requested i include and encourage anonymous registration because their abusers can still wreak havoc on their lives, so i complied. i know some of them and they are still too afraid to register. if you read our stories, you'll learn about the kind of pressures and circumstances that cause under-reporting among adopted children. we'd already been through the adoption process and been thrown to the mercy of adults acting on our behalf. we had no reason to think those in power would do a better job placing us a second time around if we reported when we were minors. if bio abused kids want to start a documentation project about their childhood abuse, they are certainly welcome to do so. and to the fourth poster: if your mother told you she was raped as a child, you wouldn't ask her to prove it. nor would you tell her to "get a life." nor would you call her a liar and say she has no credibility. or maybe you would. this is a reflection on you, the way you treat people in public forums. to all of you who replied thus far: this wasn't a call to you, but a call to those who have been adopted and abused. i honor those that have posted their stories - they are resilient, brave and beautiful people who've had to deal with amazing challenges and yet prevail. that's all i need or care to say further about this. > to all: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vulnerable population because there is a huge potential for abuse > whenever a child is handed over to people they don't know - Oh please. Lots of bio kids get abused by people they do know. I'm adopted and was verbally abused by my mother. Big deal. Doesn't have anything to do with the fact I was adopted. I know bio kids that got beaten with belts. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. On Aug 7, 4:36 am, ad...@adopted-abused.com wrote: > to all: > this is a documentation project. > this isn't a lawsuit or a criminal trial. From the website: "Intuitively, YOU KNOW adopted children are abused more than biological children. But there's no proof: because there's no record, your abuse never existed - only the ones that kill or die seem to count. Help us change the statistics to reflect reality by registering (either anonymously, under pseudonym, or real name)" Sure sounds like a "documentation project" to me. > there is a huge potential for abuse whenever a child is handed over to people they don't know - and > because of how assimilation is accomplished, Assimilation - or more commonly referred to as "Stockholm Syndrome" on similar forums. Ring a bell? > if bio abused kids want to start a documentation project about their > childhood abuse, they are certainly welcome to do so. And if they used their findings as a platform to advance the ridiculous notion that biological families are more abusive then adoptive families, then they would be subject to similar ridicule. > i honor those that have posted their stories - they are resilient, > brave and beautiful people who've had to deal with amazing challenges > and yet prevail. I've learned some valuable insight during my time reading and posting on PPL. There are indeed resilient, brave, and beautiful people whose stories need to be heard. That much is true. In high school, I used to make deliveries to a battered women's shelter from a local food bank. Because I was a male, I would enter the locked lobby after I was buzzed in, place my delivery on the floor outside a second locked door, then exit the lobby before someone picked up my packages. My signed receipt was received through an outside mail slot. As an adoptive parent, this is what it feels like reading and posting to PPL. > that's all i need or care to say further about this. Some things need no further discussion. Dad On Aug 7, 4:36 am, ad...@adopted-abused.com wrote: > and to the fourth poster: if your mother told you she was raped as a > child, you wouldn't ask her to prove it. nor would you tell her to > "get a life." nor would you call her a liar and say she has no > credibility. or maybe you would. this is a reflection on you, the > way you treat people in public forums. Asking for verification is not the same as calling someone a liar. Do you think anonymous birthmothers should have the kind of clout they do in keeping records closed? I don't. I think anonymity undermines credibility - and it should. On Aug 6, 6:04 am, suki...@gmail.com wrote: > * Adoptees who have been abused can register anonymously and do > not have to name their abusers. Let me see now. So all you have to do is say you're an adoptee who has been abused, or that you know someone who has been? No identification required, no proof, no nothing. Zilch, zero, nada. Just a nameless claim with nothing to back it up at all. Brilliant. That's REALLY going to get you a long way. > * EVERY ADOPTEE that registers adds weight and presence to a > problem that gets no recognition. Not if they're anonymous. Anonymity = no credibility. > * It's also an opportunity for Adoptees to share their stories and > provide data about this population for future research. Data that includes ANONYMOUS reports? Get a life. If you want to be taken seriously at all you're going to need empirical evidence to back up your claims. On Aug 6, 3:04 am, suki...@gmail.com wrote: > If YOU or SOMEONE YOU KNOW has been adopted AND abused, we'd > appreciate it if you sent them our way. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This project is attempting to show abuse in adoption is not an > isolated incident, by collecting data on unreported abuse cases. Curious as to why you would post this request on a newsgroup. Wouldn't an adoptee's list be a better place for your survey? Color me skeptical of your motivations. Kathy > * Adoptees who have been abused can register anonymously and do > not have to name their abusers. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ad...@adopted-abused.com > Curious as to why you would post this request on a newsgroup. > Wouldn't an adoptee's list be a better place for your survey? I don't think it's unreasonable to have posted this request here. After all, it is an adoption news group. My only concern is the anonymity issue. Anonymous reports, however true, can't be considered as *proof* of anything. Just so long as they are put into a separate category, I don't see anything negative about this project. Why so many negative responses? Abuse in adoptive families happens and is a completely unstudied phenomenon, while it in fact is a double whammy for those who experienced it. The adoptive family was supposed to be a safe place. What would otherwise be the reason to place children in a strange family? Attention to that subject and the work done to create a website where people can register and share their story deserves appreciation instead of scorn. Despite some of the pissy remarks made here, I hope many adoptees who have experienced abuse in their adoptive family will come forward and speak up. > Why so many negative responses? This alt.a It's a tradition ;-) > Abuse in adoptive families happens and is a completely unstudied > phenomenon There are studies on abuse of children in the care of unrelated adults that conclude that those living with foster or step parents (step parent adoption) are more likely to be maltreated. I posted about one just recently. However, it would be interesting to go into the adoption scenario more thoroughly. > while it in fact is a double whammy for those who > experienced it. The adoptive family was supposed to be a safe place. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > people can register and share their story deserves appreciation > instead of scorn. I understand that it's important that abused adoptees tell their stories, and I think setting up a website for them to do so is laudable. But I don't have to approve when anonymous testimony is supposed to be part of "proof". The website states " . . . there's no proof: because there's no record, your abuse never existed." From that alone it would seem that at least one of the goals of this website aims is to supply proof. Anonymous testimony would seem to be in direct contradiction to that. "Help us change the statistics to reflect reality by registering (either anonymously, under pseudonym, or real name)" You can't convincingly change statistics with unsubstantiated reports. I'd feel exactly the same way about a group of mothers who'd surrendered, if they'd said such a thing. > Despite some of the pissy remarks made here, I hope many adoptees who > have experienced abuse in their adoptive family will come forward and > speak up. I hope so too, and that they have the courage to identify themselves. On Aug 8, 12:02 am, kippaherr...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Why so many negative responses? > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > I hope so too, and that they have the courage to identify themselves. While I agree with you that an anonymous story cannot be verified and therefore has less impact on a statistical level, I believe it certainly serves a purpose. I didn't create this website, so I can't speak for its owner, but as a means to help people come forward to share their story the option to post anonymously makes it easier for people to do so. Not everyone is in the position to tell of abuse in public. For some the repercussions on their daily life are just too big to afford such a thing. Still their narrative is both worth reading and can be a motivation for others to come forward. Of course an anonymous post can not be guaranteed to be real, but I'd be surprised if many anonymous stories would turn out to be fake. The more people come forward the easier it becomes for others to contribute their story too. Some who posted anonymous before, may even change their mind and reveal their identity after some time, supported by the other stories told. So yes I agree with you as PROOF an anonymous story cannot really count, but in the setup of the adopted-abused website I see value in the option. > On Aug 8, 12:02 am, kippaherr...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > an anonymous post can not be guaranteed to be real, but I'd be > surprised if many anonymous stories would turn out to be fake. I'm not so confident. When people are desperate to get their agenda across some may be less than scrupulous. The Ontario privacy commissioner claimed that she was deluged with letters from hoards of anonymous birth moms who were terrified that open records would destroy their lives. Colour me skeptical. > The more people come forward the easier it becomes for others to > contribute their story too. Some who posted anonymous before, may even > change their mind and reveal their identity after some time, supported > by the other stories told. I see that. > So yes I agree with you as PROOF an anonymous story cannot really > count, but in the setup of the adopted-abused website I see value in > the option. Well, I think people who require anonymity for their well being would better off telling their stories in a support group rather than in one that has "changing statistics to reflect reality" as its goal. IMO the two just don't mix. Putting anonymous reports into a separate "support" category might be a solution. > Why so many negative responses? Maybe, because speaking as an adoptee, I don't need anyone thinking that we're f.cked up. I don't want people to think that because I'm adopted, I've been abused - or was more likely to have been abused. Bad enough with all the morons thinking I've got a primal wound, I feel this, that and the other - and if I insist I don't, I'm "in denial". Or, my personal favorite, that because I'm adopted, I'll want to kill my adoptive parents when I grow up. That one really slays me (pun severely intended). So, no thanks. I don't want to perpetuate anymore stereotypes, thankyouverymuch. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > > Why so many negative responses? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > If you can't be a good example.... > You'll just have to be a horrible warning. Wow those are a lot of hangups. So it's better not to speak of being f.cked over, because other people might think we are f.cked up. I've long ago given up living up to other peoples expectations. It didn't do me any good. Whether you want to adhere to a primal wound is entirely up to you and even if you would reject the idea out of denial that's entirely your cross the bear. I see it as an intersting theory that has not been put to the test. And as I prefer fact finding over cover-up, I'd very much like to see it put to the test. I don't know in what circles you move, but so far I've not heard of anyone claiming that because of the work of David Kirschner adoptees were being pigeon holed as potential serial killers. The fact Kirschner points out that adoptees seem to be over-represented in the serial killer population is an interesting fact and if true shouldn't be denied, yet needs to be studied better, to see what mechanisms have contributed to that. Looking away and saying it ain't so or trying to make a travesty of it is not going to change the findings. Either debunk the theory and show that adoptees are not over-represented in the serial killer population and all his work is one big falacy, or accept the facts and do something with it. I wonder why you actually responded to the message, for a happy adoptee you come off as being very angry. PS. I posted before as poundpup, changed the screen name to better reflect my identity On Aug 8, 12:07 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "poundpup" <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > If you can't be a good example.... > You'll just have to be a horrible warning. >Wow those are a lot of hangups. Except, despite what some charming adoption counselors told me, I don't have them. And despite what you may think, I actually am quite happy. Mind you, I didn't hear all this adoptee bullshit until I was the ripe old age of 39. While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people that insisted that it applied to all. That's what I take issue with. Don't like my opinion? Don't read my posts. And I'll reply to whom and when I want. I know we adoptees are supposed to shut up and be grateful, but that's yet another stereotype I'd like to see thrown in the sh.tter. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people that > insisted that it applied to all. That's what I take issue with. I see no one insist on abuse applying to all adoptees, so again this is figment of your own imagination, but I guess you enjoy stealing someones thread to ramble about your own issues. It's a free world. I can't stop you from doing that. > While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people > that > insisted that it applied to all. That's what I take issue with. >I see no one insist on abuse applying to all adoptees, so again this >is figment of your own imagination, but I guess you enjoy stealing >someones thread to ramble about your own issues. It's a free world. I >can't stop you from doing that. Oh wah. Can't handle it when someone doesn't dance to your tune, eh? SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > > While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people > > that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Robyn Silly adoptee, you're just in denial. Kathy On Aug 8, 2:01 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "niels" <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Robyn >Silly adoptee, you're just in denial. WHAT?!?! How DARE you! ;) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > On Aug 8, 2:01 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > -- > Robyn I know. There are NO words! ;-) Kathy > While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people that > insisted that it applied to all. That's what I take issue with. I see no one insist on abuse applying to all adoptees, so again this is figment of your own imagination, but I guess you enjoy stealing someones thread So people own threads now do they? Can I sell mine? I could use some extra cash. Kathy 1 >> While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people > that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > extra > cash. LOL - Me too. I'm going on vacation on the 17th ;) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > > "niels" <poundpup@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message news:efeef394-4c29-4d0e-a0ee-11f637fb8a91@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > >> While it may apply to some adoptees, what pissed me off were the people > > that [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > LOL - Me too. I'm going on vacation on the 17th ;) Where to? I'm jealous wherever it is lol No vacations for us this year - our youngest daughter is getting married Sept. 6. Between that and the multiple car/trucks repairs this summer (not to mention the cost of gas!) our budget is busted ;P Kathy 1 >> > "niels" <poundpup@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message snip >> > I see no one insist on abuse applying to all adoptees, so again this >> > is figment of your own imagination, but I guess you enjoy stealing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > multiple car/trucks repairs this summer (not to mention the cost of gas!) > our budget is busted ;P Bummer! This is our first vacation in two years. We're going to spend the 17th through the 20th in Cape Cod - Then going up to Freeport, ME to meet the birthdad, two bio sisters and one bio bro <gulp> ;) Now, as a "stereotypical adoptee", should I be happy about that or not? Will my primal wound finally be healed? What about my attachment disorder? So many issues, so little time ;) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > >> > "niels" <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Primally RAD, dahling. J. On Aug 8, 5:11?pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "kat" <katla...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - >Primally RAD, dahling. Woohoo! :) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > > Why so many negative responses? > > Maybe, because speaking as an adoptee, I don't need anyone thinking that > we're f.cked up. I don't want people to think that because I'm adopted, > I've been abused - or was more likely to have been abused. Speaking as a reasonably non-stupid human being (non-adopted), I take issue with anyone being told that "intuitively" they *know* something. How does the person who's telling them that know what they know ? ;-) It's quite a presumption. However, I don't see why telling the truth about abuse (whether adopted or not) should be in itself be stigmatizing. Speaking out directly and straightforwardly should be destructive of stigma. Or so I think. Much depends IMO on the way in which the facts are expressed. On Aug 7, 6:07 pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "poundpup" <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > we're f.cked up. I don't want people to think that because I'm adopted, > I've been abused - or was more likely to have been abused. >Speaking as a reasonably non-stupid human being (non-adopted), I take >issue with anyone being told that "intuitively" they *know* something. >How does the person who's telling them that know what they know ? ;-) >It's quite a presumption. Ed Zachary ;) >However, I don't see why telling the truth about abuse (whether >adopted or not) should be in itself be stigmatizing. >Speaking out directly and straightforwardly should be destructive of >stigma. Or so I think. >Much depends IMO on the way in which the facts are expressed. Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm adopted therefore I'm abused, etc. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm adopted therefore I'm abused, etc. I would hope you don't succeed in creating this stereotype, which no one suggested and is only a figment of your own imagination. > Exactly. �I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm > adopted > therefore I'm abused, etc. > > I would hope you don't succeed in creating this stereotype, which no > one suggested and is only a figment of your own imagination. Would that it were Robyn's imagination. While no one has suggested it in this thread, there certainly are those in the world who see all adoptees as damaged goods, potential ticking little time bombs, about to explode into the world, or so crippled by adoption as to be worthy only of our pity. One such fanatic used to pass through here regularly, to post links to her collection of alleged "statistics" on adoption and adoptees. She (or someone else) recently posted a link here to that compendium of useless information. I'd dig it out and post it to this thread, but see no purpose in furthering its distribution. J. > Curious as to why you would post this request on a newsgroup. > Wouldn't an adoptee's list be a better place for your survey? must respond to that - is this how you get sucked in? i thought this was an adoption group for adoptees. i have never been here before and only posted because a fellow adoptee told me it was a place to go. it was not my intent to seek anyone's approval, or to gain credibility by posting here. it was only my intent to find other abused adoptees like myself. this documentation project was modeled on a similar project to collect data from women about unreported sexual assault, because sometimes their rapist has access to terrorize them, has leverage over them, or their cases were too complicated or evidence was destroyed. and there is a tendency to re-traumatize victims after they report and justice too often is not served even if they do, or worst case the victim is accused of libel: the result is more grief. as a result, many women deal with their rape in fear, silence and isolation to avoid further trauma, which diminishes the scope of the problem or the attention it deserves for prevention and justice, and allows a climate where the problem can continue to be perpetuated. crimes go unreported for a reason. but when people do come forward and nothing is done and the reasons persist, then anonymity and not reporting is the only option for many. the abused adopted person is analogous, except they were children at the time of crisis. hand in hand with adjusting to new circumstances, given no other choice, they were manipulated, exploited, or used as an outlet for parents needs. they had no one to turn to and completely dependent solely on their abusers, the ones who were supposed to be their protectors. increasing the monitoring and protection of an especially vulnerable population of children should be everyone's concern, even new adoptive parents. in fact, i would argue responsible and loving adoptive parents should want to weed these bad parents out as much as we adoptive children do. our stories tell much about how abuse in adoption comes to fruition, and there is much to learn from our lives. any of us who come forward change the complexion of the current climate for the better. nobody claimed this was official. nor can it pass itself off as official. it proves only that we are not isolated incidents. it IS a separate category. it is about coming out of the closet so the public can recognize that it is a problem. it allows the public to get a glimpse at some heretofore hidden information to help improve the current situation, and at the same time arresting some of the abused adoptee's freakish isolation. as for statistics, most statistics cited in the world today are debatable. the statistics we challenge are the ones that say it's not a problem and brush it under the rug. for us, it was a most devastating way to begin our new life of opportunity and hope. we have exceeded the statute of limitations. we have outgrown the physical evidence. we didn't think we had recourse as children, we are without recourse now. this is probably the most and closest thing we'll ever get to our day in court or justice. the semantical arguments about the website's intro text is just that. if the public thinks it is weak, then it is weak, and that's okay. if you scoff at it, you can choose to not visit or deride it. but if the empowerment in it offers some solace for those of us who missed our chance to seek justice, then i'm willing to take your slings and arrows. and what makes this website different and so powerful for me and those who choose to participate, is that we are divorcing it from the derision and divisive personal politics and hate mongering of this adoption climate. we are the first, second, and third wave of adoptees all grown up. it's all coming out of the woodwork now as we get comfortable expressing ourselves. for some of us, it took many years of struggle to be able to talk about our stories. some of it isn't pleasant. but we do it so nobody else has to go through what we did. of course we've developed opinions during the course of this, but opinions can be taken or ignored. the point is not to cry on each other's shoulders. it dosn't even have a mechanism for that. it is just our stories, revealed, and that is the site's strength. >> Curious as to why you would post this request on a newsgroup. >> Wouldn't an adoptee's list be a better place for your survey? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > by posting here. > it was only my intent to find other abused adoptees like myself. Note to yourself: Lurk before you post. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > <suki...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > Robyn Getting back to reading this thread today.......... glad I read ahead, Robyn Of course, anyone is free to post anything they want here, but with that responsibility, don't expect everyone to buy your story. Kathy > > Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm > > adopted [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > J. Seconding what J said. And when those carrying these prejudices are, for instance, teachers or other people who are entrusted with the care and handling of kids, they strengthen the biases of others. >> > Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm >> > adopted [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > for instance, teachers or other people who are entrusted with the care > and handling of kids, they strengthen the biases of others. Or, in my experience, some adoption counselors. That's what really burned my biscuits - Their encouragement to think of yourself (adoptees) as damaged goods and the only thing that would heal you was being reunited with your biological family. 'Cause let me tell you, out of all the adoptees in my discussion group that had reunited with their birthfamilies, it was only a positive experience for one of them. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. On Aug 8, 2:32 am, "rkb...@pacific.net.sg" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote: > > > Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm > > > adopted [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You're right about this, Rupa. Kathy My sincere apologies for the audacity I had to comment in this news group. I now understand alt.adoption is intended to serve just its own inbreeding banter and bash. I will not disrupt your playgrounds ever again. I wasn't aware it was incrowd only. > My sincere apologies for the audacity I had to comment in this news > group. I now understand alt.adoption is intended to serve just its own > inbreeding banter and bash. I will not disrupt your playgrounds ever > again. I wasn't aware it was incrowd only. cry baby, cry........bye-bye Don't forget to take your snot rag with you. Kathy > > My sincere apologies for the audacity I had to comment in this news > > group. I now understand alt.adoption is intended to serve just its own > > inbreeding banter and bash. I will not disrupt your playgrounds ever > > again. I wasn't aware it was incrowd only. Sarcasm (yours) aside, I hope you and others will continue to post here regardless of the sniping. And others too. At the very least it's a place where opinions can be aired without being censored (though they might be ridiculed), and at most it's a venue for valuable discussion. Once you cut through the crap, that is. Of course, not everyone cares enough to bother. Their prerogative. On Aug 8, 10:27 am, niels <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote: > My sincere apologies for the audacity I had to comment in this news > group. I now understand alt.adoption is intended to serve just its own > inbreeding banter and bash. I will not disrupt your playgrounds ever > again. I wasn't aware it was incrowd only. >cry baby, cry........bye-bye > >Don't forget to take your snot rag with you. Cookie snot rag? ;) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > On Aug 8, 10:27 am, niels <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > Robyn I am up to my elbows in cookie snot. More like gold fish snot though. My 20 month old g-daughter is in my care while mom recuperates from giving birth yesterday to my sixth grand child..another g-daughter for our family! WhooHooo! Kathy. > > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Poor widdle goldfish. You should hide the tank when she's there. ;-) And woohoo! Congrats! > > > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks to you, and all for the congrats. Beaming grandma here. She is just beautiful! Kathy On Aug 8, 3:13 pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > -- > Robyn >I am up to my elbows in cookie snot. More like gold fish snot though. >My 20 month old g-daughter is in my care while mom recuperates from >giving birth yesterday to my sixth grand child..another g-daughter for >our family! WhooHooo! Egad, congrat-u-friggin-lations! :) SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. On Aug 8, 3:13 pm, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > -- > Robyn I am up to my elbows in cookie snot. More like gold fish snot though. My 20 month old g-daughter is in my care while mom recuperates from giving birth yesterday to my sixth grand child..another g-daughter for our family! WhooHooo! Kathy. Congrats! My eldest is planning on starting a family as soon as they move into their new home. I can't wait! Kathy 1 > > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > I am up to my elbows in cookie snot. More like gold fish snot though. > My 20 month old g-daughter is in my care while mom recuperates from > giving birth yesterday to my sixth grand child..another g-daughter for > our family! WhooHooo! Congrats, Kathy... six times over. Six more little Ku's running around this planet. Kinda scarey, if you ask me. :) Dad > > > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > I am up to my elbows in cookie snot. More like gold fish snot though. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dad Hey now! Just call us the Ku-Klan. Thanks...... ;-) Kathy > My sincere apologies for the audacity I had to comment in this news > group. I now understand alt.adoption is intended to serve just its own > inbreeding banter and bash. I will not disrupt your playgrounds ever > again. I wasn't aware it was incrowd only. Excellent - Door, a.s, I'm sure you know the routine. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. >Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm >adopted >therefore I'm abused, etc. > >I would hope you don't succeed in creating this stereotype, That'll be simple as I wasn't abused. Duh, moron. Obviously I don't follow stereotypes. SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > >Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm > >adopted [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Robyn This is the problem with these lunatic fringe banterings. It's either all or none, You're either with them, or labeled against them. There is little respect shown for the other adoptees such as yourself who were NOT abused. Kathy > This is the problem with these lunatic fringe banterings. �It's either > all or none, You're either with them, or labeled against them. �There > is little respect shown for the other adoptees such as yourself who > were NOT abused. > > Kathy I never got my promised pony. Who do I kill--er complain--to? Abuse! Abuse! > > This is the problem with these lunatic fringe banterings. It's either > > all or none, You're either with them, or labeled against them. There [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I never got my promised pony. Who do I kill--er complain--to? > Abuse! Abuse! Go down hallway one, make a left, and see the door which reads: anonymous adoption cops. Kathy > >Exactly. I just want it to become yet another stereotype, i.e., I'm > >adopted [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If you can't be a good example.... > You'll just have to be a horrible warning. That's is funny, because you are such a stereotype. On Aug 8, 4:00 am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote: > "niels" <pound...@poundpuplegacy.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > If you can't be a good example.... > You'll just have to be a horrible warning. >That's is funny, because you are such a stereotype. Oh really. Care to explain your opinion, Nymshitter? SignatureRobyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 If you can't be a good example.... You'll just have to be a horrible warning. > <lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes, I do care to explain my opinion, I will even use real words, nymshitter? wtfever. You may or may not be aware that the vast majority of the larger world functions without the knowledge of alt.a. Billions of people neither know nor care about alt.a. These people also don't know about adoption forums, adoptee rights and reform, and for the most part could give not give a rat's a.s. Many educated Americans don't even know that an adoptees OBC is sealed. I told my ex 6 years into our relationship that my OBC was altered, he declared that was impossible, "you aren't allowed to lie on government documents" Despite having a graduate degree, and having been all over the world, he had never visited adopto-land. It didn't come up, he knew I was adopted and in a relationship with my natural family, but it had not come up. He was shocked. Just as many of the state legislators were. Do you think these individuals will know about some 'stereotype' of adoptees as victims of abuse? About David Krichner? (sp?) About the adopted/non-adopted status of serial killers? About that Lori Carawhatever? That stereotype doesn't have a wide enough audience to BE a stereotype. Serial killers are not fascinating to me, but I do know that the overwhelming majority of them are male. Does that make you look at every male as a probable serial killer? pssshaw. Serial killers are very rare in our society, adopted or otherwise. Adoptees not so much. As I said before, I know a lot of adoptees, I know a lot of males. I have known exactly 0 serial killers. That is nothing you have to worry about. If I were to have the luxury of being given a random sample of adoptees, not the self-selected group who are interested in adoption rights, which is a very small subset of the adoptee population. Myself included, I did nothing in adoption reform until my child was nearly 16, as being a mother was a more pressing concern, and truthfully, adoption still doesn't take a tremendous time out of my day. So, If I got to pick a random adoptee up by the ear, no screening, and ask let's make it a him, how adoption had affected his life, the likely answer I would get is, "I am not damaged goods, I am fine, adoption is fine, I am fine, I am fine, I am fine" Then as per usual we get to see this individual behave in ways the belie his assertion. You know the meta-message whole thing. I said this myself as a teenager, "how could adoption affect me, I have never known any different?" Which may be true for some people, it may be true that some human infants are intrisically hardwired to not have the normal biological needs of the average infant, usually, we call these people pathological, i.e. http://www.word-power.co.uk/books/the-empty-soul-I9781879816169/ You may feel quite clever to joke about terms like "the Primal Wound" you may find it insulting to feel a label like that addressed to your being, it is insulting. No one likes to think of themselves as less than. You may claim that you are not "damaged goods" I just had an argument myself in real life with my partner, who resents the role that adoption plays in my life and asserted that I am not "damaged" I disagree with him, and you. I also don't think there are two bins to throw people in, damaged, and not damaged. Who is not damaged in some way by the simple act of living? You want to disrespect people who were abused as "damaged goods" Well maybe they were damaged by abuse, whether or not adoption was involved. That doesn't make them discards. Lots of wonderful people have been abused, and worked very hard to overcome early abuse and contributed greatly to their world. Every person, that I have ever met, has something they work to overcome. The biggest argument against adoption, is really child development texts. Read them, they don't refer to adoption, but place what we do know about the human infant in relation to our current knowledge and it is obvious. Read A General Theory of Love, a book that has nothing to do with adoption, and yet everything to do with adoption http://www.amazon.com/General-Theory-Love-Thomas-Lewis/dp/0375709223 Or don't. I will not claim that you are in denial, how could I know your heart? Perhaps you are so insensate that adoption did not effect your development. Perhaps you came with different wiring, maybe you are an indigo child? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children It just seems a bit odd, that you would be so unusual a human, but who knows? I don't. Carry on. > <kippaherr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > If you can't be a good example.... > You'll just have to be a horrible warning. I agree with not wanting to being further stigmatized by adoption, that is why in real life, I don't tell anyone. I haven't told people for a good fifteen years, and I hear what they say to me about adoptees. The stigma is very real whether you like it or not, and I for one do not. I have enough to deal with, without outsiders deciding I am overly needy, or overly aloof due to my adoption status. Which real kids do every day. Unless you are physciologically different than the normal human infant, you were impacted by your adoption. You don't need to read adoption literature, or ascribe to Primal Wound to understand this. If you doubt it, read about the physiological needs of human infants who aren't adopted. There is no disagreement about the importance of attachment and the first 6 months of life. Babies need their mothers and fathers, always have, always will. That doesn't mean all mothers and fathers are capable of raising their babies, but many more were than those who were not given the option to. No one has ever suggested that all adoptees are time bombs, very few are. There are very few serial killers statistically in the world, adopted or otherwise. I know lots of adopted people in real life, and I have never met a serial killer. It is very hard for most adoptees to talk about being abused, if they were, as they grow up in a culture that tells them they are lucky to be alive, and be taken in by adopting parents. From the time they can walk. While I agree there are a lot of things about this request for information, the anonymity, the self-selection, I do think it has value as it is a much dismissed reality of adoption. Certainly not all adopted children are abused, but I would argue that adoption brings a whole level of experience that is ripe for abuse that simply doesn't exist in the biological household. I know an adoptee who was born of mixed race, who remembers as a very young person, 2 or 3 being in the center of her adoptive relatives while they guessed where she came from, while demanding her to perform a series of acts stereotypically assigned to the races they were guessing at. Pretty gross. I think the intuitively comment is fair, when you come into a family as a mystery, you are suspect. I know adoptive parents who are sensitive and caring, and intuitive, but to deny that there is a difference, is so wrongheaded in my opinion. Of course there is a difference, it is different, and it makes the adopted child more vulnerable. Yes, lots of bio kids are vulnerable too. The big difference is, if you are a kept kid, you don't grow up being told that you are lucky to be alive, subtext, you don't deserve to be alive. I was a teenage mom, my child was never told that. He was born well after abortion was legal, and I was born after abortion was legal. The general consensus, in North America, by those who aren't part of the dreaded triage, is that if you are adopted, it is because your parents didn't want you to be born. That is just true. That is a weight to grow up under. It is not fair or right, but how many things are? The insane pressure to pretend that we can lose everything a person has to lose, our families, our identities, and adopt the pretense "as if born to" that lasts a lifetime, and be happy about it, is one of the most absurd, "Emperor has no clothes" notions ever. Nevertheless the social pressure this notion puts on an adoptee, who must themselves adopt it for survival, is great, and I do feel even in anon. situations, story telling is valuable. It is a start. This newsgroup is very hostile, and I know that and expect it. I can't help but wonder, the allegiance to lack of investigation into how adoption effects individuals on an andectodal level, and empirical one, what need that sates in the frequent posters? The word inertia springs to mind. On Aug 8, 2:11 am, joymadse...@yahoo.com wrote: > > <kippaherr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 123 lines] > > - Show quoted text - and oh p.s. That whole adoptee as serial killer doesn't bother me a bit. I have never wanted to kill anyone, don't even put snail poison in my garden, and have refused to kill mice. The fact that some adoptees are serial killers has nothing to do with me as person. I do believe it has something to do with the act of adoption. That should be looked at, instead of blind-eyed. We should be invested in making that different. The fact that some adoptees are serial killers has nothing to do with me as person. I do believe it has something to do with the act of adoption. If that were the case then there would be no non-adopted serial killers. Kathy 1 > <joymadse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kathy 1 > <joymadse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kathy 1 ummm, no it doesn't work that way. didn't you guys have to take critical thinking at school? You know where they explain logic and agrumentation and how A may equal B but that doesn't neccessarily mean B = A, that kind of thing? Think harder. On Aug 8, 11:03 am, "kat" <katla...@hotmail.com> wrote: > <joymadse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kathy 1 ummm, no it doesn't work that way. didn't you guys have to take critical thinking at school? You know where they explain logic and agrumentation and how A may equal B but that doesn't neccessarily mean B = A, that kind of thing? Think harder. While home environment no doubt plays a part in creating a serial killer it does not imo, mean that adoption per se plays a part in the creation of a serial killer except to the extent that it is obviously a component of the home environment. Kathy 1 On Aug 8, 12:11 pm, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > > <joymadse...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ummm, no it doesn't work that way. You're quite right. It doesn't. However, I don't believe it is *the act of adoption per se* that is the reason for a higher incidence of killers in the adoptee population. I think the reasons are much more complex than that, and include David Kirschner's theory that there's a sub-group of at-risk adoptive families that are unwilling or unable to recognize that adoptees have two identities and that these families "don't validate their children's need to know and and deny or not really confront the complex issues of rejection, abandonment, loss, identity, and sometimes buried, dissociated rage." > didn't you guys have to take critical thinking at school? Me? Nah. Glan Afon Grammar? You've got to be kidding. On Aug 8, 12:11 pm, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 8, 11:03 am, "kat" <katla...@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ummm, no it doesn't work that way. You're quite right. It doesn't. However, I don't believe it is *the act of adoption per se* that is the reason for a higher incidence of killers in the adoptee population. Great minds think alike ;) I think the reasons are much more complex than that, and include David Kirschner's theory that there's a sub-group of at-risk adoptive families that are unwilling or unable to recognize that adoptees have two identities and that these families "don't validate their children's need to know and and deny or not really confront the complex issues of rejection, abandonment, loss, identity, and sometimes buried, dissociated rage." I would go with *might* include as obviously not all adoptees who find themselves in that situation become serial killers. As you noted the reasons are complex. Unfortunately way too many people prefer to focus on a single cause (in this case adoption) when looking for answers to a problem. Based on Joy's posting history here I tend to think she falls in that category. Kathy 1 > didn't you guys have to take critical thinking at school? Me? Nah. Glan Afon Grammar? You've got to be kidding. >The fact that some adoptees are serial killers has nothing to do with >me as person. > >I do believe it has something to do with the act of adoption. That >should be looked at, instead of blind-eyed. I don't believe it has something to do with the act of adoption. I do believe it has everything to do with a child having severe attachment disorders - with not making deep and lasting emotional connections to others from early childhood. If the child does not develop emotional connections they cannot develop empathy. My reading of many books on serial killers (a strange obsession, I know, but I love reading about them) shows similar troubled childhoods and histories of poor attachments. A child who grew up to become a serial killer was a pitiful kid who got screwed over by the adults in his life. That child may, on occasion, have been adopted but that doesn't mean that the adoption is to blame. Correlation, even if demonstrated, doesn't equal causation. The damage might have been done to the child long before he came into the adoptive family or the adoptive family might have contributed to it - but I feel the real culprit is a lack of attachment, a history of abuse and a genetic predisposition. Julia > >The fact that some adoptees are serial killers has nothing to do with > >me as person. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Julia I disagree, the whole you will be cared for and parented IN EXCHANGE for your identity. I think it is a big deal. No, not every adoption falls within these parameters, but most do. Again, look at how important identity is to non-adoptees, I recently saw a show with a black man talking about how he couldn't know his ancestors because of slavery, where they were, where they came from, and this upset him, Jesus, I wasn't allowed to know my own name or mother. He was asking for reparations, I am just asking for simple human dignity. Look at the whole Bourne Identity (sp?) series. Identity is huge, but abstact. Personal identity is an issue that needs much more investigation, adoption screws you pretty hard in that arena. Although, I am not anti-adoption, I mean sure the permanent gaurdian idea is great in theory, communism is great in theory, but where are we going to get all these alturistic souls that want to only give with no return? Certainly not from my neighborhood. On Aug 8, 3:11 am, joymadse...@yahoo.com wrote: > I think the intuitively comment is fair, when you come into a family > as a mystery, you are suspect. Of course we should all, as individuals, be able to think as we like. However, the comment is really nothing more than an assertion: "Intuitively, YOU KNOW adopted children are abused more than biological children." Personally, I take exception *anyone* being TOLD that they KNOW something, especially when the person telling them that needs for them to believe it. It's a presupposition that takes for granted that *all adopted people* will feel this way, thereby almost hinting that you're lacking in some way if you don't. Besides, prefixing it with "intuitively" takes it out of the realm of reason and puts it into that of feeling. I think that is rather tricky. Nobody like's to think of themselves as unfeeling, or lacking in intuition. It seems to me to be a way of covering bases. Like, even in the absence of evidence, we *know* the truth through intuition. So let's gather some evidence - it doesn't really matter if it can't be fully substantiated because it's known intuitively anyway. Maybe if it were framed differently such as as a question, "Do you like many others, feel intuitively that adopted children are abused more than biological children? " . . . But then that wouldn't be a credo. >Certainly not all adopted children are abused, but I would argue that >adoption brings a whole level of experience that is ripe for abuse >that simply doesn't exist in the biological household. <snip> I tend to agree with you, although I feel the word "ripe" is overstating it. I do believe adoption is accompanied by extra stressors and that it is more complicated than bio parenting, therefore it requires more from the parents. An adoptive parent has to be able to become attuned and really connected to a child who does not reflect their own genes, and unless a parent has come to terms with that (and can feel totally comfortable with that difference) then it makes it hard for the child to measure up to expectations. As my bio related children have grown I have found it fascinating to watch their similarities increase. I am in the interesting position of parenting two sets of adopted bio siblings, as well as two unrelated adopted children and two half siblings who were born to me. In adolescence and young adulthood I can see my biologically related kids developing along quite similar paths. I don't believe that genetic tendencies necessily lead to increased difficulties, but I do now see genes as more important than I used to. The adoptive family has to be able to stretch a bit more than the bio family because we have to give our children more room to grow in unfamiliar directions. >I think the intuitively comment is fair, when you come into a family >as a mystery, you are suspect. Not necessarily. I have totally enjoyed sitting back and watching the mystery of my adopted children unfold. I love that they have taken our family down an unfamiliar path - bringing things previously foreign (pardon the intended pun) into our home, such as their musical talents. This doesn't have to be a negative thing. >I know adoptive parents who are sensitive and caring, and intuitive, >but to deny that there is a difference, is so wrongheaded in my >opinion. Of course there is a difference, it is different, and it >makes the adopted child more vulnerable. <snip> I agree. I believe it is a necessary component of preparation and screening of PAPs that they really understand the difference. There is NO difference in my love for, or my attachment to, the children who came into our family through adoption rather than birth. However, they are certainly not mini mes, and we all would have been set up for failure if we tried to make them into clones. The same also applies to our bio kids but not to quite the same degree. All kids benefit from parents who can take a step backwards and celebrate diversity. Julia > Why so many negative responses? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > have experienced abuse in their adoptive family will come forward and > speak up. <yawn> Kathy On Aug 7, 9:10 am, kippaherr...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Curious as to why you would post this request on a newsgroup. > > Wouldn't an adoptee's list be a better place for your survey? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Just so long as they are put into a separate category, I don't see > anything negative about this project. It's not unreasonable to post anything here. Free country. If legit, I think he may have received a better response from an adoptee support group though. As for any discussion which has ensued because of this thread, that's good. I particularly love Robyn's responses regarding stereotypes.. Joy, another adoptee, comes across as preaching to the choir though. It's nothing most of us, if not all, don't already know. Kathy > On Aug 7, 9:10 am, kippaherr...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Kathy Preaching to the choir? I definetly don't see this newsgroup as people I share a point of view with. Interesting that you ascribe us to be sharing a belief system. On Aug 8, 9:09 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Aug 7, 9:10 am, kippaherr...@hotmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - Show quoted text - :::::::::::drum roll:::::::::::: Let the games begin, the 'lunatic fringe' has now entered the building. Kathy > On Aug 8, 9:09 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry it is me, joy, I didn't realize I was posting under my gmail account. So, I just went from "preaching to the choir" someone who states the obvious to the know it alls, to the lunatic fringe. The inconsistencies in your own expression don't bother you a bit do they. Every time I come to this site I am reminded of people who like to slather their car with bumper stickers as a way to avoid original thought, and then fancy themselves witty. It is so pointless. Okay here are some goodies for you "I refuse to have a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed" "The weather was here wish you were beautiful" It is like a preservation of history here, nothing has changed since 1990 for you all, this should be a noted and historic site, suspended animation in real time. Life in the spin cycle. <lavendar.cromwell@gmail.com> wrote in message Every time I come to this site I am reminded of people who like to slather their car with bumper stickers as a way to avoid original thought, and then fancy themselves witty. It is so pointless. I wonder why you do continue to come to this ng. I think the reason you and Jackie cross swords so much is that you have much more in common than you would care to admit. A love of argument for argument's sake and a huge need for attention comes to mind as being two of those things. Kathy 1 > <lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kathy 1 Exactly. Why does she need to compete with BN? Same thing; attention seeking narcissistic Kathy On Aug 8, 9:26 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Aug 8, 9:09 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > - Show quoted text - No, I got it right the first time. You're preaching to the choir. If you truly knew how well schooled your audience is on the issues, you'd know this already. Kathy On Aug 8, 9:26 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > On Aug 8, 11:18 am, Kathy <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > - Show quoted text - No, I got it right the first time. You're preaching to the choir. If you truly knew how well schooled your audience is on the issues, you'd know this already. Kathy Joy has been here all of five minutes in the lifespan of this group yet she thinks she knows everything about us. It is doubtful she has googled alt. a's extensive past and prefers instead to post sh.t that is deliberately meant to provoke so that she gets the attention she so obviously craves. Hmmm where have we seen *that* behavior before? Kathy 1 Kathy 1 > On Aug 8, 9:26 am, lavendar.cromw...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > - Show quoted text - They are both so much alike, it is uncanny. Maybe seperated at birth? Kathy > > "Kathy" <Meagan...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes, you are right, it is highly unlikely that I have googled your past postings and read your "history" I would even say it is a sure bet. I find it adorable that you even think it is a remote enough possibility to mention. You may be well-schooled in adoption, but you hide your education so well, one might assume it was information sealed under government order. I really don't find my posts to be "preaching" Idk, mostly hostile, yes. What am I preaching? I googled it: If someone preaches to the choir, they talking about a subject or issue with which their audience already agrees. ('Preaching to the converted' is an alternative form.) We are not in agreement, so this is a misused idiom in this context. Again the insult, "separated at birth" another antiquity. So useful, so handy, so comfortable. I would agree that my posts for the most part have been provocative, that is the attraction of the unmoderated forum. Perhaps, in your history, there have been thoughtful, interesting posts. I will take your word for that. I am glad it gives you some comfort. |
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