Family Forum / Pregnancy / Breastfeeding / August 2006

I think most women who say things like this are women who don't really
want to breastfeed.  Because they know that it's best, and their
doctors encourage them to try, they 'try', but quickly find lots of
good reasons to stop. (And, in turn, many peds, while they do give
lip-service to 'breast is best', are perfectly happy to encourage such
women to stop if they have any difficulties. "Well, you tried your
best. Not all women can breastfeed and your baby will do fine on
formula. Here are some samples to get you started.)

I knew I was going to breastfeed. Couldn't think of a damned reason not
to, and dozens of reasons to do it.  So I did. (Of course that's not
denying that SOME women have a hard time, but the great majority can
succeed if they want to and have good help and advice.)

Naomi

I find the 'try and see' attitude, in general, to be very successful
for me. For nursing, I would have been overwhelmed to say, "I will
nurse for the first 2.5 years of my child's life" -- breaking it into
pieces, such as "I will get through nursing and pumping today -- all I
have to do is pump 20 oz.  today at work, and nurse tonight, then
evaluate tomorrow," made it work for me (to reach the 2.5 year mark).

Ditto drug-free labor ("just have to get through next 10 minutes
without drugs"), saving money ("only x amount per day, every day"), and
other long-term goals. I think for me, the thing I need to do is attain
low goals and keep building on them; setting the bar high with a
long-term mindset I typically find really depressing. YMMV.

Caledonia

try and see worked for me.
i had some very militant breastfeeding friends and i bristle at the
thought of being talked into and guilted into things. i knew i wanted
to breastfeed but i didn't want the friend who was breastfeeding her 4
yr old to get too cozy with my plan.
i told everyone i was going to try for 6 months, then see how it went.
it turns out my daughter was born with severe heart defects, had
surgery at 5 days and was hospitalized for 2 weeks. there were lots of
opportunities for doctors or nurses to convince me that formula was
best for any number of reasons but no one tried and i continued with my
plan. (btw, this is not to say they didnt accidentally on purpose screw
up and give her formula when i wasnt around. i chalked it up to
laziness in not checking her file and time saving in their busy days)
my friends also had the good sense to back off and not pressure me.
we had no problems with breastfeeding. no latch issues, no supply
issues, no contrary doctors. at 6 months, things were going well so
there was no reason to stop. i decided to try to continue and see how
it went. maybe go till i returned to work.
at 9 months i returned to work. my body and my baby both adjusted
quickly to an evening and mornings schedule. no pumping, homo milk
during the day.
with her 1st birthday came a second surgery. i wasn't going to take
away one of the few comforts i could offer her during her hospital
stay, so breastfeeding continued.
at 19 months it stopped working so well for me. i disliked being
undressed in public by a hungry toddler. that was my personal line. i
decided to wean her using the same try and see method. i'd cut out the
second morning feed and the second evening feed. that went fine. so i
cut the first evening feed. still fine. so i cut the morning feed. also
fine. the last to go was the nurse to sleep feed, but one day i skipped
it in our evening routine. she went happily to sleep. and that was the
end of our breastfeeding, no turning back.
so at every step, i had an idea of what i wanted but none of it was
ever etched in stone. it wasnt baby-led, but it was baby-accommodating.
if at any point she'd objected, i would have altered my path.
wait and see worked for us. but i know what you mean. i agree with you
though, a lot of people who approach breastfeeding with a wait and see
attitude are giving themselves and easy out or a planned escape hatch.
nancy

I'm entirely 100% convinced you are correct, I was exactly the same, when
other people I knew who were having babies were buying bottles and
sterilisers just in case and had a supply of formula cartons, all I had
bought was breastpads and nipple cream. I was going to breastfeed and that
was that. I also knew that with 24hr supermarkets that if there was a
genuine emergency, with the exception of midnight to 11am and 5pm to
midnight on a Sunday we could have formula and a bottle available within
half an hour, but I figured that having to go out and get it was enough of a
buffer if we did go through a difficult patch. My experience of
breastfeeding has been a bit wierd, problem free for 6 weeks, couldn't see
what all the fuss was about, then everything under the sun thrown at us
after that, but here we are, I'm feeding number 2 at the moment who is
currently 14 months, no plans to stop.

Anne

De-lurking here.  While I knew that breastfeeding was good, I was kind
of ambivelent about it prior to having DD but after doing alot of
research decided that I should definitely try.  (If it makes a
difference I was an older first time mom (38 when DD was born).

What I found to be more constructive was to commit to small goals
rather than just leave it as vague as "I'll try and see" and I'd offer
that as a suggestion to anyone starting out with that attitude.  

I had read and heard enough that the first six weeks especially is often
difficult so to decided that no matter what I would nurse for 6 weeks
and then evaluate.  I did have a fairly low point at about 2 weeks
with a bleeding and painful nipple but got really good assistance from
the LC at my pediatricians office and got through it.

Once I got past the six week growth spurt, things were easier
and so set the goal to make it three months and then evaluate.  At
three months I set the goal to six months.  By the time I got to six
months, switching to formula seemed like a lot more bother and I set
my next goal to 1 year.  

At a year I didn't bother setting a goal and she ended up weaning at
24 months.   I never would have thought I'd have nursed anywhere that
long when we first started ( 2 years seemed like an eternity starting
out).

I do think this is *generally* a less successful approach to nursing.

I'm about to make a slightly strained analogy so bear with me and suggest a
better one if you can.  If a teenager believes, from his family or on his
own, church, whatever, that alcohol is bad, wrong, etc. and he WILL not
drink, he's less likely to never take a first drink.

Now -- is alcohol bad and wrong?  I don't think so.  My kids won't grow up
with that message, and I would expect some naughtiness to ensue in the
teenage years.

So some of us start with the idea that nursing is the only way and formula
is a bad idea.  Maybe those few of us who fail, fail the emotionally hard
way.  But I'd bet more of our babies are nursed for longer.

The fact is, given the opportunity, nursing works out very well the vast
majority of the time.  Like birth.  It cannot be otherwise.  We are mammals.

I never contemplated weaning an infant.  I'm contemplating weaning some
toddlers on a daily basis, but I digress.

That was pretty much my attitude when my DD was born. I was a first-time mom
who knew only the very basics of b/fing (mainly the various b/fing holds and
many of the benefits of b/fing). Most people I knew IRL had b/fed for six
months or less. I was determined to try b/fing DD and was just hoping to
make a go of it for at least a short time. In preparation for her coming
home from the hospital, we hadn't bought any formula, but we did take the
formula samples home with us "just in case." At first, I had set a goal of
b/fing for at least a month. After I met that goal, I moved it out to three
months. Once my supply and her demand evened out (at around 3-4 months or
so), and things got *much* easier, I knew that we would be b/fing for a long
time to come (I had no idea back then that we would be going until after she
turned three!).

I must say that things were *very* difficult when she was a newborn. She
never seemed satisfied with my supply and would scream at the breast on a
nightly basis. (Out of desperation, we did give in a couple of times and try
a bottle with formula, but fortunately for us, she refused all bottles.) She
also had reflux. I started lurking in here and gathered tons of information.
I really believe that this group is what "saved" me. I think an awful lot of
people just don't have the support and/or information they need to establish
and maintain a good b/fing relationship. I certainly wasn't expecting it to
be so hard in the beginning, and without the information I received from
this group, I might very well have thrown in the towel early on, not knowing
how much better and easier things would get just a short time later.

Now that I'm expecting twins, it's a whole other ballgame. Of course I'm
going to try to b/f them exclusively, but we'll see how it goes.

Mary

When I was first pg, I really didn't want to breastfeed tbh. There was a
hole lot of reasons, and I just wasn't into the idea. I bought bottles,
sterilisers etc, but no formula as I wanted to wait til nearer the
birth. Then, when I turned 6 months pg, my milk arrived, which freaked
me out, as I really didn't expect it to. However, once I got over the
shock, I decided my body obviously knew what it was doing and I would
give breastfeeding a try, and when DD was born, that's exactly what I
did. I'm glad I was never determined though, as (partly thanks to the
midwife at the hospital who told me not to let Jessica snack, and that
she must have set feed times from birth!) the first few weeks were so
tough and I had to express and eventually supplement. Had I been
determined, I would have felt a total failure, which the community
midwife tried to make me feel like the next day anyway. My back hurt
from feeding in the wrong position, my hand hurt from hand expressing
(my manual pump was useless) and I didn't know to "sandwich" behind the
nipple when my boobs were really big and engorged and she was too little
to feed.  Having now worked through all these issues, I'm happily
breastfeeding totally. I'm aiming for 6 months, and will see where we're
at when deciding to continue - If I go on further than that, fantastic,
but if I'm supplementing again by then, then I know I'll have at least
have given her the best possible start. As for when I have #2, I'll have
a better idea of what I'm doing, but I still won't set my expectations
too high.

Interesting question though :) I've enjoyed reading other people's
replies :)

Lucy

I think "try and see" can mean very different things coming from
different people. Lots of responses mention setting specific goals
before giving up, sometimes very short goals. I think that's a
realistic way of really TRYING. Lots of folks mean by "try and see"
that they aren't going to go on with breastfeeding unless they find
it's really far easier than they thought, which is quite a different
matter. It's like saying "I'm going to put my foot in so that I know
whether the water is too cold before I decide whether to swim." Well,
you can't always tell by just putting your foot in. It's more realistic
to say "I'm going to get wet all over and swim a stroke or two before I
conclude that it really is far too cold, because I know it almost
always seems cold just at first." Whether you do the latter by going in
gradually, or diving off the dock, is probably more a matter of
personality than anything else.

In my case, I started off with twins, so I knew there might potentially
be some difficulties and complications. I told myself that I was going
to do my darndest for a specific period of time (six weeks, barring
medical emergencies), and then if I did have to give up, I would know
absolutely that it hadn't been my fault, I'd given it everything I had
in me at that time, and thank goodness formula is reasonably safe these
days. If I'd had a singleton first, I don't think I would have thought
so much about the "what if I have to use formula," because singletons
are less risk and less stress, so it was inherently less likely that
I'd need to go that way. I'd probably have been more inclined to just
muddle through without setting any specific goals (which might or might
not have worked out as well, dunno).

It depends on whether they're coming from the perspective that there's
a choice to be made at all, really, as if it were a matter of which
school district to buy a house in. To me, the process went something
like, well, if you can breastfeed, the obvious thing is to breastfeed.
If you can't breastfeed, then the obvious thing is to give formula.
What choice?

Of course I'm exaggerating for effect there; in real life there are
gray areas, centering on what "can't" might look like in your
particular situation.

--Helen

That worked for me but then I meant it.  I really was going to try.  I
wasn't just saying to get people to back off.

That's me!  I told DH I would BF for two months
and that was it.  I told him I would never pump
at work, that's just not me.  I bought formula
before I had the baby.  Who knew I'd nurse
and pump Pillbug for 17 months and am now on
month 14 with Rocky???

Pediatrician, this newsgroup, and the pumpmoms
mailing list made all the difference!

-- Anita --

Just remembered, SIL lending me her pump
also made a big difference.

-- Anita --

My daughter was early and tiny (4lbs) so was put straight on formula
and taken to high dependancy unit. She only had a brief few hours stay
there before coming to me, but hospital were more biased towards
continuing her on formula than getting me to feed. Was day 3 before
eventually got somebody to sit and show me how to feed her (I did ask
for help but kept getting forgotten, and what with it being first baby
and all a big shock i didn't push it, but with hindsight i should
have). Started feeding her a few minutes before each feed then
following up with formula. This carried on for first few months. By
week 14 i had weaned her completely off formula and onto breast. But
first 6wks were hard. Kept thinking "would be much easier to just stick
with formula", but perservered.
For me, best way was to take it one day at a time. Not nice to think
when you have a newborn "right, 6mths of breastfeeding to come" as is
very daunting. But day by day is a good approach. I am proud that i
stuck with it and weaned her off formula. I have just weaned her off
breast completely, she is 15mths.
So many people I speak to say "oh, it was too hard for me" and had
given up by the first day. I think that some people do have reasons why
they can't feed, but i think that in some cases the reason "too hard"
is used when really mums want to say " i prefer to bottle feed". Mums
shouldn;t feel bad for picking formula because it suits them.

Personally I don't think you can make general statements about anyone's
level of commitment because there are so many factors involved in each
person's decision you can't cover them all in one blanket.

For me I said I would try to bf but not get stressed about it if it
didn't work. As it turned out I fought through cracked and split
nipples, horrible let-down pain, bad latch, sleepy baby, late milk
coming in and more to get to where I am now. But had you asked me
before whether I would have gone that far I would have been doubtful as
I don't do pain well:). What got me through was m yown bloodymindedness
and good advice, what hacked me off was militancy and bad advice.

Jeni

Breastfeeding hurt for almost the first two weeks. I had to really
clench my teeth whenever my son latched on.  One nipple even bled in
the first week when he bit down accidentally when I was trying to
withdraw, and my sister-pediatrician said, keep on breastfeeding
through the pain. When my son had a stomach virus and kept pooing after
each feed, my sister said, keep it up, breastfeeding is his first line
of defense. So I had been conditioned to breastfeed and there was no
alternative.  I think that because of that, I continued. Now
breastfeeding is the best part of my day.  He has just turned one and I
can't pump enough milk at work to feed him so I am trying formula out
of necessity.  But I will still pump and then BF when I get home. I
really enjoy it!

Well, I agree with the others that it really so depends on the person
and the experience.  Before you have kids, it is sooo hard to have any
idea what it's really going to be like, esp. when you get conflicting
reports all over the place!  And of course, it *is* different for each
mom/baby(babies).  You can get this idea in your head of what it's
going to be like, and so much of it just flies out the window once you
actually have a baby!  I've read so many stories about moms who
expected this instant bond via bf, and were disenchanted when it wasn't
this purely magical experience.  Or the moms who were just willing to
give it a try - and when it worked, it was suddenly, well, a magical
experience.  And when things don't go smoothly - is it perceived as a
challenge to overcome, or as an insurmountable thing and a good reason
to quit and go to bottles?

Of course, good advice and good support are crucial, as well as
attitude - but it's sometimes hard to know what will motivate someone.
(Confession - one of my motivations was to do better than my SIL who
started combi-feeding very early on through lack of support -
competitive nature strikes again!)

Irene

This actually makes me quite sad.  There's a lot of pressure out there
for younger people, in that so many of them have conflicting messages.
They were most likely bottle fed, so they've likely got the parents
giving "good enough for you" messages.  But then there's a lot of
pressure out there to breast feed - complete with the overtones of
"you're a failure if you don't", combined with the "crunchy earth
mother" overtones.  Honestly, I think that the impression that
breastfeeding is for "hippies", might be doing the most harm.

I really never considered bottle feeding as an option, simply because
it's such a pain - I didn't have a dishwasher when my first was born,
and the thought of trying to get that many bottles clean and sterile
made suffering through any amount of thrush pain much more attractive.

Education is definitely an issue, but I think just seeing it first hand,
and talking about it with a currently breastfeeding mother is the best
kind.

On a somewhat related note, I've been horrified lately, with the recent
heat wave, and our just average 90 degree days, to see just how many
women fix up a bottle and leave it in the stroller with the baby, for
HOURS.  I've even seen a few on the bus (a 45 min. trip for me, and they
were already on) who have one bottle in with the baby, and 2 or 3 more
underneath, just sitting there, curdling.  BLECH!

A simillar topic has been discussed on a Midwifery list I subscribe to.
I have permission to post this from the owner, but I thought it said it
all...

I too wondered why breastfeeding seems so difficult and stressful for
so many women....... especially once I'd worked with indigenous women
and saw how easy they seemed to find it.  So trying to figure it out, I
noticed a few differences. 
 
Indigenous women have alot of exposure to breastfeeding as they have
extended family groups with large families.  They don't speak of
'trying' to breastfeed, it seems they don't even question their own
ability that they will be able to do it.  In my experience it is rare
to see problems, and they are often associated with separation from
their baby (ie prems/sick). Other things I noticed is that indigenous
women never look at the clock, there is never the comment   "I only fed
5 minutes ago... " they totally feed on demand and don't put feeds off
until they've eaten lunch, or the visitors have gone or whatever.  They
aren't ashamed of their breasts or even self-conscious.  For the
midwife.........it's blissful! 
 
We encourage women to be instinctive with birthing their baby, maybe we
should do the same with breastfeeding?  (just thinking out loud)

/end quote.

Jo

As a mom and as an educator I have seen a definite correlation between
the attitude 'I'll try' and quickly giving up on breastfeeding. Sure
there are some mom's who have the 'I'll give it a try' attitude and end
up with a successful breastfeeding relationship and some mom's who are
determined to make it work no matter what who end up formula feeding.

On a personal note, when I was pregnant with dd#1 I planned on
breastfeeding. I read nothing, prepared nothing just planned on
nursing. I had been breastfed, all my neices and nephews were
breastfed-it's how you fed a baby. I had an unplanned C-section ), they
brought me dd when she was 4 hours old, I latched her on and that was
that. I had some sore nipples but no other issues.
Now I'm not saying that being ignorant of possible breastfeeding
problems is the key to successful breastfeeding but I do wonder how
much the fact that I was so totally relaxed and not anxious about
nursing my dd impacted how well it went. I think a place somewhere in
the middle is the best place to be. Educated but not anxious.

On my due date bulletin board (may 2006) there are approximately 20
regular posters. There are three of us still nursing. :-(

Oh, I totally had the, "It WILL work" thing going for both my kids. Had
I wavered at all, neither would have been breastfed--it was too dang
painful the first week the first time, and just flat out HARD the
second time. But I was raised to know that babies have a right to be
nursed, even when it's not fun, and stuck with it because it was the
thing to do. It chaps my nipples to hear people going off on how
extended nursing is for the mom's benefit--it frankly drives me up the
wall almost as much as my toddler's teeth, but my toddler *needs* my
milk to an extreme degree, and so I put up with biting, pinching and
pulling happening at every damn feed because she needs it. Or rather, I
deal with it, I dont' really put up with it, but it keeps happening
anyway. If it were all about what makes me feel good, this child would
not be allowed within 10 feet of my breasts. But it's worth it, because
she's catching up on some of her milestones, her hearing is improving,
she's doing *so* much better than anyone could have predicted, and I
strongly suspect that breastfeeding has a lot to do with it. So we
persist, pinchy grabby bity baby and all.

I enjoyed nursing my older daughter for about 2 years of our 6 year
nursing relationship. I tolerated it gracefully for about 3 1/2 years
of it. And I spent about 6 months at various times feeling like playing
keepaway with the boobie.

With dd2, I enjoyed it for about 4 blissful weeks when she was not
biting and I was not weighing her and she had no teeth and I didn't
have to pump and she seemed to be nursing well most of the time without
choking and gagging. She's 17 months old. I spent 4 1/2 months teaching
her to nurse, 1 month enjoying it, 1 month panicking because she had
learned to latch about as well as I thought we could get and still
wasn't gaining, 2 months being vaguely depressed that she gained better
on supplemental coconut milk than on breastmilk, and then the biting
started. So doing the math, that's 1 month of "rather pleasant" and 16
months of, "Because she needs it"...and counting.

Nothing, NOTHING could have prepared me for this nursing
relationship--but it's *still* better than formula, especially for this
baby. I strongly suspect she'd have been hospitalized multiple times if
she'd been formula-fed, due to aspiration.