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Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / July 2004



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Need Comments on Situation

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WiseSarah - 04 Jul 2004 13:33 GMT
OK, I have a situation that I'm asking for the group to comment on or give
their opinions.

The short story verison...I had a relationship with a girl(yes Sarah Wise
is NOT a woman). Girl gets pregnant, and boy (that's me) decides to leave
after child is born. Fast forward to the present, 15 years later. Child
trys to call me. I get the message and call the Mom. Exchange few words,
but that's all. Later, me being the sneaky git actually manage to find her
email address and try to initiate a dialogue for offering support and
wanting to see my son. Mom really says nothing to this, and now due to
something I said (or maybe she got all the information she needed to know)
now is antagonistic (no I don't really blame her, but the fist few emails
showed some civility).

Question: What do I do now?

If you can see of the things I posted in the past, the mother claimed to
have filed for support 3 times, but never followed up on it and never had
to use public assistance (up to now AFAIK). So there's a good chance the
bloodhounds are already on the loose.

Even if they are not,I know maybe the stupidest thing I could possibly do
is to file the order myself (and also use that for paternity
establishment). The thing is from reading on the CS subject, even if I
were to do this - nothing really guarantees me that I still will ever see
my son. For all I know there could already be irrevocable damage to any
relationship I could have with my son. It's just that I'm at a point where
I'm twisting in the wind and really have no idea of what to do...sort of
like the same situation I found myself in so many years ago.

I know that there may be some people who would like nothing more than to
label me as some uncaraing monster. You can say that, but if you believe
that hurts, try living with 15 years of guilt if you can. The thing is
that I can't figure out what went wrong in our relationship from her side.
I'm almost left with the feeling that once the child was born, that was it
for us. I lost a girlfriend and gained a son. Sad thing is that I wanted a
family more than anything but I lost that somewhere along the way. I do
know the one thing that really made it apparent for me that something was
up was her sending me the certificate of live birth with no information
listed under the father of the child.

So, let me know what you think or any advice you can offer. So much is
already gone in the past but there might be something to salvage for the
future. I feel that one glimmer of hope is the only thing that I can hold
onto at the moment.
PattymacI - 04 Jul 2004 14:19 GMT
>From: "WiseSarah"

>If you can see of the things I posted in the past, the mother claimed to
>have filed for support 3 times, but never followed up on it and never had
>to use public assistance (up to now AFAIK). So there's a good chance the
>bloodhounds are already on the loose.


If she never used any form of public assistance, it's unlikely you would be
held responsible for back support.  But it also depends on how far she went in
pursuing support and the state she lives in.  Please see an attorney that
specializes in support issues before you take any action.  And then do whatever
is necessary to see your child.

My brother died last December, never meeting the daughter that was born when he
was 17.  This beautiful child contacted my mother when she turned 18 and wanted
to meet her father so badly.  My brother refused to meet with her because his
wife became hysterical when he told her that.  She had never let him tell their
children about their older sister. It made no sense to us because he had told
her when they started dating that he had a child when he was a teenager.

After my brother died, his wife told us that the one thing she regretted was
not allowing him to see his child.  But of course it's too late.  And he never
met his two granddaughters.  We thought the children he had with his wife
didn't know about this child but their older daughter told us that he told her
when he knew he was terminal.  In January she asked us to arrange a meeting and
they are now best friends!

I know I got off on a tangent here but I want you to realize that you have two
issues here and you need to act on each.  

1.  Protect yourself.  See a competent attorney.  Even if you have to borrow
the money.  

2.  Make contact with your child.  You may have to wait until the child is 18
if the mother takes legal action to prevent this.  But do something now.  My
brother was only forty-three when he was diagnosed with cancer.  Maybe he had
always planned to look for his daughter when his  other children were grown up.
He never got that chance.  

Pattymac  
Bob - 04 Jul 2004 15:33 GMT
> OK, I have a situation that I'm asking for the group to comment on or give
> their opinions.
>
> The short story verison...I had a relationship with a girl(yes Sarah Wise
> is NOT a woman). Girl gets pregnant, and boy (that's me) decides to leave
> after child is born.

She could have used "the pill" but nothing similar was available to you.
She could have used a dozen other BC methods, but nothing similar was
available to men.
She could have gotten an abortion, but it's only "a woman's right to
choose."
She and she alone **chose** to bear a child.  Her choice, her
responsibilty.

> Fast forward to the present, 15 years later. Child
> trys to call me. I get the message and call the Mom. Exchange few words,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> now is antagonistic (no I don't really blame her, but the fist few emails
> showed some civility).

Yep, her choice, but 15 years later you are still being forced to be
"responsible" for the outcome of her exclusive choice.

> Question: What do I do now?
>
> If you can see of the things I posted in the past, the mother claimed to
> have filed for support 3 times, but never followed up on it and never had
> to use public assistance (up to now AFAIK). So there's a good chance the
> bloodhounds are already on the loose.

Get her address.  You may need to dump the body in a swamp.  Find a good
swamp (bay, abandoned well, mine shaft, pig sty, etc.) just in case.

> Even if they are not,I know maybe the stupidest thing I could possibly do
> is to file the order myself (and also use that for paternity
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I'm twisting in the wind and really have no idea of what to do...sort of
> like the same situation I found myself in so many years ago.

A DNA test is required before paying $0.10.  If she was f.cking you she
was probably f.cking two or three more that she didn't tell you about.
Meet the kid, and take a DNA sample kit with you -- mouth swab.

> I know that there may be some people who would like nothing more than to
> label me as some uncaraing monster. You can say that, but if you believe
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> future. I feel that one glimmer of hope is the only thing that I can hold
> onto at the moment.

Good luck

Bob

Signature

When did we divide into sides?

"As president, I will put American government and our legal system back
on the side of women."  John Kerry, misandrist Democratic candidate for
President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/

[Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All
posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

WiseSarah - 04 Jul 2004 16:07 GMT
..please, not in THIS conversation. That's the last thing I need anyone to
see is your usual "ranting", especially if someone who knows the mom (or
she, herself) is monitoring this and figures out who I am.

I'm done with blame about who got pregnant...we were both young and dumb
at the time. And even though we had a similar scare early in our dating
life that didn't stop us enough to use the precautions we should have. And
even though I tried to mention abortion at the time of that scare, if I
suggested it after it really did happen I only said it once and we never
gave it any thought thereafter. I only thought that we would have the
"traditional" family...sad to say, we got that - just on the other side of
the percentage.
Don - 04 Jul 2004 17:15 GMT
When I first started reading here I thought Bob had some good points and was
a bit of comedian.  I certainly hope he does not believe some of his
rantings.  He loses all credibility when he comes out with dumping bodies in
swamps, approving of child porn and some other really far out fringe
unbelievable stuff he has posted.

So far out that I am beginning to wonder if he is here as a plant from NOW.

> ..please, not in THIS conversation. That's the last thing I need anyone to
> see is your usual "ranting", especially if someone who knows the mom (or
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> "traditional" family...sad to say, we got that - just on the other side of
> the percentage.
Bob - 04 Jul 2004 17:54 GMT
> When I first started reading here I thought Bob had some good points and was
> a bit of comedian.  I certainly hope he does not believe some of his
> rantings.  He loses all credibility when he comes out with dumping bodies in
> swamps, approving of child porn and some other really far out fringe
> unbelievable stuff he has posted.

Sorry Don, your old tired capitulation has gotten men where we are
today.   Our families are destroyed.  Our possessions are taken.
Millions of us are either living as slaves or have already been sent to
their concentration camps.

> So far out that I am beginning to wonder if he is here as a plant from NOW.

As long as men are wusses who capitulate to the feminazi oppression, NOW
has won.  Why do you advocate and support their program of feminazi
domination of men?  Why do you criticize and try to silence a MAN who
won't be dominated by them?

Bob

>>..please, not in THIS conversation. That's the last thing I need anyone to
>>see is your usual "ranting", especially if someone who knows the mom (or
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>"traditional" family...sad to say, we got that - just on the other side of
>>the percentage.

Signature

When did we divide into sides?

"As president, I will put American government and our legal system back
on the side of women."  John Kerry, misandrist Democratic candidate for
President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/

[Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All
posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

WiseSarah - 04 Jul 2004 16:13 GMT
And another thing...that's the one thing that I'm angriest about (even
though I still love her). She really seems to have no care in the world if
I ever see my son or not. She yelled at me (in one of her emails) that it
wasn't her responsibility to track me down - yet she managed to move all
over the state (a different one than I live it, which only compounds the
complications in this) and expected me to somehow find her before my son
called me. Also the fact that my son could call me, and I never got
contacted by her, the state or anyone for that matter. She didn't even
deign it necessary to hire her own attoney to come get her money.

So I have to assume that it's not about the money for her at all. And
personally for my standpoint, even though I would have to work like a dog
for most of his college life (depending on arrears, if any) - it's not
about the money for me. I couldn't take that fact that I would be nothing
more than a meal ticket and a visitor to my son 15 years ago...yet now I
pray to just be able to spend an hour with him - even if that means I'll
probably never see him after that.
Beverly - 04 Jul 2004 17:27 GMT
I've got a couple of comments that may help you make a decision, but
are drawn upon personal experience rather than legal knowledge.  I
can't tell you that you wouldn't be opening a can of financial worms
and you may want to look into the laws in the child's state of
residence regarding the ordering of back child support once paternity
has been established.  Even then, laws can be misinterpreted and
"bent" depending on the judge's mood.  Given that you knew you had a
child for the past 15 years and never attempted to support it, I can't
say a judge isn't going to nail you to the wall.

That said, it is unclear whether the boy attempted to contact you due
to his desires or his mother's.  I am told (by professionals) that
girls are much more likely to seek out absent parents than boys.  This
was in connection with my locating my biological parents (I am
adopted) whereas a half-brother I have has not... so it may be
different in non-adoptive situations, but another personal experience
of mine "fits the mold" (see further comments).  If contact was due to
the boy's desires, then it would be a pity for you to walk away;
however, Mom may get a "bug up her ***" if she has to share his
affections.  Then again, the status quo may be okay with her.  There
is no way to know until it is too late.  If it is due to the mother's
desires, she may have been fishing for information in order to
initiate a fourth attempt at getting support.  You may know shortly if
this is the case.

My eldest son was born into a similar situation.  His father ordered
me to get an abortion, which I could not fathom doing (I'm not saying
this part is similar, just sharing how it went down).  Instead, I
realized that we could both have what we wanted if I assumed full
responsibility for my son and never asked my son's father to BE one.
It has worked out quite well as my son is now 20 and his father's life
has been affected as THOUGH I had an abortion.  Of course, once my son
was born, a third person's desires entered the equation and, as soon
as my son was old enough to handle the situation as it was, I gave him
all the contact info he would need to contact his father.  He never
did... just didn't care to.  HAD he, I had no intentions of doing
anything differently than I already had.  I made my choice and felt it
was a good one.  Your son's mother may think similarly... but she may
not.

I also have a 15 year old son.  Although he has free reign to contact
his father, I suspect his will would be strong enough to do so even if
forbidden (which it never has been; however, he contacts girls he is
forbidden to contact).  Since there is no restraining order forbidding
you from contacting your son, you may wish to make sure he knows HOW
to contact you IF he desires and then leave it in his hands.  He may
choose to call you without his mother ever knowing.  What your son
truly wants will be made known by his actions.  BE PREPARED, however,
to answer uncomfortable questions such as why you were never part of
his life either physically or financially. His mother may or may not
have used lack of child support as an excuse for denying him and he
may harbor resentment.  I hope not, but it is possible.  He is
probably not old enough to understand the situation as it stood... or
what a single man goes through went presented with the phrase "I am
pregnant and you are the father."  Let's hope he never does.  I know
MY 15-year-old son has never faced anything so dire and has no
experience to draw from in order to understand completely.

I can't tell you that you should feel no guilt, but I can tell you
that you are unable to turn back time.  NOTHING you do today (even if
court-ordered to pay back child support) is going to change what
happened yesterday.  You simply can't change history, so you're going
to have to get past the guilt and live in the present.  You have a
15-year-old son who MAY wish to know you.  Do you want to comply with
that and, if so, are you willing to take anything that comes along
with that?  That is how it stands today.

Good luck... to both you and your son.

>OK, I have a situation that I'm asking for the group to comment on or give
>their opinions.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>future. I feel that one glimmer of hope is the only thing that I can hold
>onto at the moment.
WiseSarah - 05 Jul 2004 21:36 GMT
I can't tell you that you should feel no guilt, but I can tell you
that you are unable to turn back time.  NOTHING you do today (even if
court-ordered to pay back child support) is going to change what
happened yesterday.  You simply can't change history, so you're going
to have to get past the guilt and live in the present.  You have a
15-year-old son who MAY wish to know you.  Do you want to comply with
that and, if so, are you willing to take anything that comes along
with that?  That is how it stands today.

You know, that's exactly the problem that I'm facing right now. I could
care less about the money for all it's worth. I know it doesn't make up
for what I missed. I just hope that somehow something can be repaired so
he doesn't mirror his father's life in any way.

The thing is after making that point to the mother she's staying real
quiet - which makes me really think that this is just a charade she's
playing out for a "fishing" expedition. I really hate to think that, but
I'm almost left with no choice to think otherwise. But again, I keep
running into the same thing - if my son did really manage to call me, why
couldn't she have tried earlier if she just wanted money.

I just don't really know if there's anything left that I can really do. I
did send my son a message for his birthday, not much else I could do.

ME wrote: It's taken so long to finally get to say this to you, and I hope
that one day I might get the chance to say it in person.

Happy Birthday Son.

Love,
ME

Her reply:
>Subject: You don't deserve these
>Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:26:31 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I want you to know I find your self-pity obvious, annoying, and even
offensive.  But, I gave these same pictures to CULTIST, so I thought you
might like to have them too.

The CULTIST in question is an ex-boyfriend of her's that I guess she found
on the rebound from me. She said that he was pretty much the father that
apparently I couldn't have been...at least for a few years until he
decided to go join a religious cult, split from her, and leave the state.

It's actually extremely funny - she claimed that she had been converted
(to some religion) which made it a lot easier to come to her decision
about making me want to leave. Then the boyfriend that she wanted goes and
finds religion and leaves her. Karma does have a wonderful sense of irony,
don't it...

But anyway, after you get a response like that what more is there really
to do?

(P.S. What I didn't deserve were pictures of my son playing in the school
band on parade. She says that she sends the cultist pictures regularly of
him out of respect for their past relationship. You'd think I'd get a
phone call sometime within 15 years for making our son possible...)
WiseSarah - 09 Jul 2004 23:06 GMT
Alright, a small update.

Basically I think we've gotten our bickering with each other out of the
way. Still I'm no closer than I was before, but she did clear up some
things for me.

It was my fault. It was all my fault. I think my words, no matter how
insincere they were long ago hurt her beyond anything I could have even
contemplated. I would have been less of monster if I just ripped the heart
out from her chest and stomped up and down on it.

I guess this is the the sentence I condemned myself to when I decided to
speak before I thought about what I was saying. Maybe if I had decided to
support my son earlier  I wouldn't have to look forward to life without
him.

A tragic lesson to learn with a terrible price to pay for.
 
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