Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Parenting
ParentingMothersSingle ParentsStep ParentsAdoptionTwinsSpankingChildren's Health
Pregnancy
PregnancyBreastfeeding
Marriage
MarriageDivorce
FamilyKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / April 2009



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

MA - Outrageous Injustice

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Dusty - 14 Apr 2009 06:43 GMT
http://mensnewsdaily.com/glennsacks/2009/04/13/globe-front-page-story-covers-fat
hers-families-lawsuit-outrageous-injustice-faced-by-supporter/


Globe Front Page Story Covers Fathers & Families' Lawsuit, Outrageous
Injustice Faced by Supporter

By Glenn Sacks, MA for Fathers & Families
Apr 13, 2009

"'For one divorced father of four...the crumbling economy has had
consequences beyond the emotional and financial.
"His $1,400 weekly support payments, plus additional expenses like health
insurance and tuition, had been based on a court judgment in 2007.

"The man works for a realty business, and since the real estate market has
frozen, his income has plummeted. Earlier this year he fell $23,000 behind
in what he owed, including attorney's fees to his ex-wife's lawyer. With his
modification petition still pending, he was handcuffed in court and put in
jail for 30 days...

"'Of the 45 guys I was in jail with," he said, "12 to 14 were probate cases.
So I know I'm not alone.'"

Joseph P. Kahn's front page story Amid layoffs, child support pacts fraying:
Stressed-out parents ask family court for help, relief (Boston Globe,
4/13/09) details the problems faced by child support obligors in the face a
bad economy. It is not uncommon for decent, loving fathers like the Fathers
& Families supporter quoted above to be punished or even thrown in jail
simply because they can no longer earn enough money to pay the child support
the family law system demands.

We suggest that you thoughtfully and responsibly:

 1) Write a Letter to the Editor of the Boston Globe by clicking
letter@globe.com or using their online form here. The shorter the letter,
the better chance it has of being published.

 2) Comment on the story on the Globe website by clicking here.

 3) Commend reporter Joseph P. Kahn for bringing attention to this
important issue--his email is jkahn@globe.com

Kahn also writes:

 The chief justice of the Probate and Family Court, Paula Carey, concurs,
noting that contempt citations have risen sharply in recent months as more
litigants have fallen behind on their obligations, whether employed or not.
Carey is particularly concerned about those who represent themselves in
court, either because they can't afford an attorney or because they believe
they can be their own best advocate.

 "Many don't understand that if they lose their jobs, they need to come
back right away and get [the divorce agreement] modified," said Carey.
Otherwise, she said, they're already in trouble because child-support
modifications are not retroactive to the date a job was lost or a similar
change in financial circumstances.

 Carey chaired a 12-member task force that reviewed the state guidelines
over a two-year period beginning in October 2006. Under federal law, states
must update their guidelines, which apply to married and nonmarried parents
alike, every four years.

 Spelled out in the new guidelines are a recognition that healthcare
coverage is vitally important to children's welfare and a commitment to
streamlining the process by which adjustments are made. The guidelines
establish minimum payments, set at $80 a month, but do not cap them at the
high end.

 The revamped guidelines already face a stiff legal challenge, however,
another reflection of tough economic times. This afternoon, Massachusetts
Superior Court Judge Linda Giles is scheduled to hear a lawsuit filed by the
Boston-based nonprofit Fathers and Families.

 The group contends that the guidelines unfairly burden noncustodial
parents financially and were unconstitutionally implemented by the courts,
not the state Legislature. According to the lawsuit, the new guidelines
sometimes double or even triple the support levels previously mandated,
causing further stress on splintered families.

 "We do the best we can to make sure that kids at least get the basics,"
said Carey, defending the current system. "That's not always easy to do,
especially at lower income levels." But, she said, "All of us understand
that when someone loses a job, there's a tendency to crawl into a hole - and
they shouldn't. We want to help them."

 ------------------------

 http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/13/amid_layoffs_
child_support_pacts_fraying/


 Amid layoffs, child support pacts fraying

 Stressed-out parents ask family court for help, relief

 Essex County Probate Judge Amy Blake: ''From a day-to-day perspective,
we've definitely seen an uptick'' in the number of divorced spouses seeking
changes to child-support arrangements. (Travis Dove for The Boston Globe)

 By Joseph P. Kahn
 Globe Staff / April 13, 2009

 A Massachusetts family court system that is strained during the best of
times and taxed with implementing new child-support guidelines faces another
challenge: divorced parents seeking relief from - or enforcement of -
support arrangements as their financial and employment situations
deteriorate.
 Although the probate court system, which has jurisdiction over
child-support cases, does not keep statistics on modification petitions,
judges and lawyers within the system say such filings have increased
noticeably in recent months as the ranks of the unemployed and underemployed
have swollen. Layoffs, cutbacks, and battered investment portfolios have
affected custodial and noncustodial parents on all ends of the socioeconomic
spectrum, along with tens of thousands of Massachusetts children.

 Nationally, the picture is just as grim, according to a survey released
last month by the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. The 1,600-member
group reports a 39 percent increase in the number of divorced spouses
seeking changes to child-support arrangements in a tight job market and
deepening recession.

 "From a day-to-day perspective, we've definite ly seen an uptick," said
Essex County Probate Judge Amy Blake, who practiced domestic relations law
for 15 years before her appointment to the bench last July. Although no
single factor explains the increase, Blake added, the economic downturn
clearly plays a role.

 The chief justice of the Probate and Family Court, Paula Carey, concurs,
noting that contempt citations have risen sharply in recent months as more
litigants have fallen behind on their obligations, whether employed or not.
Carey is particularly concerned about those who represent themselves in
court, either because they can't afford an attorney or because they believe
they can be their own best advocate.

 "Many don't understand that if they lose their jobs, they need to come
back right away and get [the divorce agreement] modified," said Carey.
Otherwise, she said, they're already in trouble because child-support
modifications are not retroactive to the date a job was lost or a similar
change in financial circumstances.

 Carey chaired a 12-member task force that reviewed the state guidelines
over a two-year period beginning in October 2006. Under federal law, states
must update their guidelines, which apply to married and nonmarried parents
alike, every four years.

 Spelled out in the new guidelines are a recognition that healthcare
coverage is vitally important to children's welfare and a commitment to
streamlining the process by which adjustments are made. The guidelines
establish minimum payments, set at $80 a month, but do not cap them at the
high end.

 The revamped guidelines already face a stiff legal challenge, however,
another reflection of tough economic times. This afternoon, Massachusetts
Superior Court Judge Linda Giles is scheduled to hear a lawsuit filed by the
Boston-based nonprofit Fathers and Families. The group contends that the
guidelines unfairly burden noncustodial parents financially and were
unconstitutionally implemented by the courts, not the state Legislature.
According to the lawsuit, the new guidelines sometimes double or even triple
the support levels previously mandated, causing further stress on splintered
families.

 "We do the best we can to make sure that kids at least get the basics,"
said Carey, defending the current system. "That's not always easy to do,
especially at lower income levels." But, she said, "All of us understand
that when someone loses a job, there's a tendency to crawl into a hole - and
they shouldn't. We want to help them."

 Gayle Stone-Turesky, an attorney who worked on the task force, says the
group was particularly concerned with protecting lower-income families.
"Even before the economy went south," said Stone-Turesky, "these people were
clearly struggling."

 According to many divorce lawyers, however, most cases going to court are
being brought by parents seeking lower payments because they've lost their
jobs or face foreclosure on their homes.

 Those getting regular support "are grateful to be getting it," said
attorney Marylinne Rice. "We're seeing more cases where both sides can't
afford" to keep up financially. In the past, she adds, when someone lost his
job, the argument to the court would be, "He's fully employable." "That's
gone by the boards," she said, although courts usually require proof that a
litigant has applied for work on a regular basis.

 Divorce attorney Fern Frolin estimates that calls to her office about
contempt and modification cases are running 25 percent above normal. She
likens today's economic downturn to the 1980s housing recession, when
divorcing couples were stuck with houses they could not sell.

 "That was tough, but this year it's not just housing, it's everything,"
said Frolin. One example, she says, is the small-business owner whose
backlog of accounts receivable - money owed to the company but uncollected -
makes his business appear healthy on paper, when in fact there's little
available cash to divide between parties. "You can't pay child support with
receivables," she noted. "I've never seen that before."

 For middle- and upper-income families, another financial pressure point is
investment vehicles like retirement accounts and college-tuition funds,
frequently regarded as communal property in divorce agreements. These funds,
normally expected to grow in value, are now being tapped for cash or
decimated by a sinking stock market, say observers like Boston attorney
Donald Tye. As a result, he says, many judges are adjusting court-ordered
private-school and college tuition payments to fall more in line with
state-college fees than with those charged by elite prep schools or Ivy
League colleges.

 Kelley Bothe, a Wellesley psychotherapist who runs support groups for
divorced parents, says the emotional havoc being wreaked on families is
palpable. One woman in her group is a stay-at-home mother suddenly forced
into the job market to help support her children. Two fathers are business
owners who are simultaneously coping with a bad business cycle and
devastating personal loss. Another is facing foreclosure on his home. Where
children are involved, the anxieties grow even more pronounced.

 "In any divorce, people worry about finances," said Bothe, "yet there's
often a shared goal to provide for kids in the way they're used to. But if
the income is suddenly compromised, parents wonder, How are we going to do
this and give our kids the lives they've had?"

 Beverly attorney Edmund Greene has seen both sides of the child-support
issue, legal and personal. Greene, divorced four years ago with a 5-year old
daughter, is petitioning the court to reduce his $360 weekly support
payments by half. His private practice has dried up, says Greene, and fully
a third of his income comes from unemployment while he continues to look for
full-time work.

 Meanwhile, Greene is helping other probate court litigants on a pro-bono
basis - including some who are fighting against proposed court-ordered cuts
in the child-support levels they receive. "These people can't navigate the
system by themselves," he says.

 For one divorced father of four who requested anonymity because his case
hasn't been settled, the crumbling economy has had consequences beyond the
emotional and financial. His $1,400 weekly support payments, plus additional
expenses like health insurance and tuition, had been based on a court
judgment in 2007.

 The man works for a realty business, and since the real estate market has
frozen, his income has plummeted. Earlier this year he fell $23,000 behind
in what he owed, including attorney's fees to his ex-wife's lawyer. With his
modification petition still pending, he was handcuffed in court and put in
jail for 30 days. A pretrial hearing on his case is scheduled for May.

 "Of the 45 guys I was in jail with," he said, "12 to 14 were probate
cases. So I know I'm not alone."

 Joseph P. Kahn can be reached at jkahn@globe.com
Dusty - 14 Apr 2009 06:56 GMT
The simple facts are this..  MA is one of the most extreme pro-radfem
states, er, Commonwealth's, in the country.  They flat out cannot stand
single fathers, married fathers nor even non-married fathers.  If it's a
father of any kind, cept for the cathloc kind that loves to play with alter
boys.. then they go by the watch-words of: "Distrust and Vilify".

MA "family courts will so rarely allow a downward modification that people
never know when they happen.  And often the amount involved is such a
pitance that it doesn't bear mentioning in the media (or anywhere else for
that matter).

The part where the reporter from the globe claims that even married and
non-married parents are subject to the law is a friggin' joke.  When was the
last time anyone ever heard of a married parent being dragged into court to
explain why they haven't spent 3/4 of their pay on little Johny of Susie??
When??  What millenium was it in??

Yupper, leave it to MA to "help" NCP's.. right into the slammer.
Chris - 14 Apr 2009 16:48 GMT
> http://mensnewsdaily.com/glennsacks/2009/04/13/globe-front-page-story-covers-fat
hers-families-lawsuit-outrageous-injustice-faced-by-supporter/

>
[quoted text clipped - 242 lines]
>
>  Joseph P. Kahn can be reached at jkahn@globe.com

A sick and sad commentary on the rapidly deteriorating moral condition of
this nation.
DB - 15 Apr 2009 02:58 GMT
When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues, it's
time for a new government!

> http://mensnewsdaily.com/glennsacks/2009/04/13/globe-front-page-story-covers-fat
hers-families-lawsuit-outrageous-injustice-faced-by-supporter/

>
[quoted text clipped - 242 lines]
>
>  Joseph P. Kahn can be reached at jkahn@globe.com
Peter Franks - 15 Apr 2009 03:09 GMT
> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues, it's
> time for a new government!

Incarceration should be reserved largely for the purposes of segregating
those that have demonstrated a tendency to maliciously and violently
harm society.  (Actually, those that have demonstrated a tendency to
harm society should be executed, but that is a topic for another
day/thread.)
DB - 15 Apr 2009 03:35 GMT
>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues,
>> it's time for a new government!
>
> Incarceration should be reserved largely for the purposes of segregating
> those that have demonstrated a tendency to maliciously and violently harm
> society.

Quite right, this is an abuse of authority!  No judge in this land should be
allowed to impute a set income when a Father has lost his job thru no fault
of his own. America should be embarrassed about preaching freedom and
liberty for all to other nations when it imprisons it's own citizens for
minor money matters.

Hell, they sure don't imprison the scumbags on Wall Street when they stole
all the money that we will have to pay back. Not only did they get rich,
they also got rewarded with more money from the same government that puts a
man in jail for not having the ability  to support his kids!
Chris - 15 Apr 2009 17:31 GMT
>>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues,
>>> it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> be allowed to impute a set income when a Father has lost his job thru no
> fault of his own.

That's how they justify their actions, by pretending that a lie is true.
That'd be like me burglarizing your home only to claim that you stole from
me and I am merely recovering my own property. Who could possibly fault me
for that? They make-believe so they can feel good about themselves. The
"child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.

> America should be embarrassed about preaching freedom and liberty for all
> to other nations when it imprisons it's own citizens for minor money
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> they also got rewarded with more money from the same government that puts
> a man in jail for not having the ability  to support his kids!
Moby@dick.com - 15 Apr 2009 18:13 GMT
> The
>"child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.

That and the lack of fathers paying support.
13th monkey - 15 Apr 2009 20:35 GMT
>> The
>> "child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.
>
> That and the lack of fathers paying support.

How many fathers with custody go to jail for running out of money at the
end of the month?
Moby@dick.com - 15 Apr 2009 23:00 GMT
>>> The
>>> "child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>How many fathers with custody go to jail for running out of money at the
>end of the month?

What's the pay differential between women and men?
Chris - 15 Apr 2009 20:56 GMT
>> The
>>"child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.
>
> That and the lack of fathers paying support.

Whether they pay such support or not, the industry still extorts them. Thus,
your claim is false.
Phil - 16 Apr 2009 14:30 GMT
>> The
>>"child support" industry is driven purely by emotion.
>
> That and the lack of fathers paying support.

Nope, just emotion. There is not one scintilla of sense in or about the
whole industry.
Phil #3
Kenneth S. - 15 Apr 2009 23:10 GMT
>>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues,
>>> it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>they also got rewarded with more money from the same government that puts a
>man in jail for not having the ability  to support his kids!

    I think it's a mistake to accept -- even in the interests of
keeping comments brief  -- the notion that "child support" goes to
support kids.

    "Child support" is money that the noncustodial parent
(virtually always the father) owes to the custodial parent, and she is
under no obligation to spend any of it on the children.  Furthermore,
there is plenty of evidence that state "child support" formulas are
rigged to maximize the amount of money going to the mother.

    The truth is that men go to jail for not having the ability to
pay money to their exes.  Divorce industry participants disingenuously
try to conceal this by saying that the money is owed to the children.
DB - 16 Apr 2009 00:43 GMT
The government is more of a threat to the American Male than any terrorist
group is!

>>>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues,
>>>> it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> pay money to their exes.  Divorce industry participants disingenuously
> try to conceal this by saying that the money is owed to the children.
Day Brown - 18 Apr 2009 02:10 GMT
> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money issues, it's
> time for a new government!
BE careful of what you wish for.
The order imposed by government supports the infrastructure agribusiness
depends on to plant, care for, and harvest. Without that, expect famine.

How to get rid of the government without having a population that knows
how to grow its own food is debatable.
Peter Franks - 19 Apr 2009 04:14 GMT
>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money
>> issues, it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> How to get rid of the government without having a population that knows
> how to grow its own food is debatable.

You have to be joking!

The intervention of government into agriculture has only caused problems
and created artificial shortages and inflated prices.

Farmers know how to grow crops, not government.

Are you a communist by chance?
Phil - 19 Apr 2009 15:13 GMT
>>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money
>>> issues, it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Are you a communist by chance?

Some people believe that without government force, individuals are
helpless. "It takes a village" is the mindset much like in Russia
between 1917 and 1995.
That is a very good example of government incompetence, one on which the
American public seems to demand we try to repeat. We're kinda stupid
like that.
Phil #3
Phil - 19 Apr 2009 15:08 GMT
>> When the government starts to imprison it's citizens over money
>> issues, it's time for a new government!
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> How to get rid of the government without having a population that
> knows how to grow its own food is debatable.

Total bullshit. Growing food is not a problem in America, never has been
except during the dust bowl days and only for a section of the country.
Government is the problem, not the solution in food as well as "child
support", which is anything but.  Demanding absolute government control
for every minor inconvenience has created most of the problems we have
today. Every government 'solution' simply creates more problems than it
solves, which it rarely does.
Without government intervention, my garden each year grows quite well. I
was raised on a farm with pigs, cattle, chickens and acres of crops;
foodstuffs to be sold to those lacking space, time or intelligence after
taking what was needed by the family,so I know quite well how to grow
anything that is suitable for the region in which I live. When and how
to plant is even explained on small packages of seeds. And we did it
without government control telling us what to grow or paying us not to
grow certain items to keep the price artificially high. Due to
government regulations, corporate farms are the norm along with
contaminated foodstuffs.

It works the same way in nearly every other area of life. Too much
government is worse than no government.
Phil #3
Day Brown - 19 Apr 2009 18:32 GMT
> Total bullshit. Growing food is not a problem in America, never has been
> except during the dust bowl days and only for a section of the country.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> government regulations, corporate farms are the norm along with
> contaminated foodstuffs.
Whatever gave you the idea I'm talking about a government solution? It
takes a village cause the village will have a few nightowls to keep an
eye on the surveillance gear and an ear on the dogs in case there are
intruders while you are asleep. The nuclear family farmhouse is a death
trap for any jackass SWAT team.

The village has enuf hands, that if the weather threatens, everyone can,
as I remember doing, get out in the field to haul the grain in before it
gets wet.

I was born in a farmhouse in 1939 that was still so crowded with kin
who'd lost urban jobs that I was born in the upstairs hall. Grandpa just
hooked up the team and plowed an extra acre of garden, and we all got to
eat homegrown veggies. But back then, before they lost the jobs in the
city, they'd grown up on family farms, and knew what the f.ck they were
going. I dont think the fat assed couch spuds today would know how to
grow turnips.

I remember county fair plaques on the wall for 45-48 bu corn/acre using
what we now call 'organic' methods. Agribusiness today doses the land
with Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potash. [that's a period; the trace
minerals needed for maximal mental development have been leached out
long ago] And with that, they get 155 bu corn/acre.

People are too goddamn crazy now to learn to grow their own food.
Phil - 21 Apr 2009 15:00 GMT
>> Total bullshit. Growing food is not a problem in America, never has
>> been except during the dust bowl days and only for a section of the
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> People are too goddamn crazy now to learn to grow their own food.

Not crazy, lazy. Society expects... demands actually, that government do
everything for them, including thinking. True, most people can't plant
anything more than their a.s in front of the TV and many children have
no comprehension of where meat and milk actually comes from other than
the store but it does not take a village to do sh.t. A village only
makes it more difficult, if not impossible, to do what needs to be done
because someone has to feed these leaches and they pass laws to make
their life easier and less real. We had dogs to take care of intruders
and guns if necessary. We didn't need someone to take care of our
business, especially the government. Today, we need a watchman BECAUSE
of the government, which is the village that demands we feed them for
doing a job we don't want and do not need done.
This is exactly how the child support industry came about and has taken
over the job of parenting, resulting in the village mentality that is
destroying America and free will around the world.
Instead of relying on family, we have "facebook" to network with
strangers who have even less of an idea about how to solve a simple
problem. This is all a problem with thinking the "village" is an
improvement.
Phil #3
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2010 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.