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Family Forum / Marriage / Divorce / April 2009



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Dudes "Fighting" for those Jobs in Grenoble ...Magna Carta Style

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♫♪ Turin ⚰ - 08 Apr 2009 02:50 GMT
http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/entry90.html

You'd never see this in the U.S., anymore.  Too bad, their aims were
so supply side, sycophantic.  Still, 26 points for style and 25 more
for method.

Too many Men, these days, are the products of union-busting, corporate
beta-male conditioning.  This has turned their entire way of thinking
into that of the drone who allows everyone else to make their
decisions for them.  Especially, the women.  And - ppppfft - weak,
little, piece of sh.t ...girls... in their lives.

I mean, what the f.ck....no f.cking respect in society, whatsoever.
That is, except for that insulting, counterfeit respect of everyone
stroking their egos and treating, talking to, and using them like dumb
f.cking slaves.  And, they've been conditioned (by capitalist Western
culture) into believing that this is, both, NORMAL and "patriarchal".

...Whu..??  In the original, real Patriarchal cultures, a female who
dissed her Father was in deep sh.t.  In ancient Israel, if your Father
simply spit in your little bitch's face, then you were ashamed for a
week; which, meant you were, both, avoided and shunned ...and, you
stayed away from people (like a leper) the whole time.  (Numbers
12:14)  Do Western culture's mouthy little princesses have anything
like that, codified into the culture to deal with..?  ...Right.

And, in ancient Israel, if some ...ppppfft... woman pulled their
version of a kick in the nuts on a Man (by reaching under his robe and
grabbing them) - if only to help out her own Husband, if he was in a
fight with another guy - then she had her f.cking hand cut off.  That,
plus an admonishment from God (in the scriptures) not even to show
pity her ...Ooh, that's cold.  (That was GOD.  :D)  (Deuteronomy
25:11-12).

Why?  Because, there was a psychology at work, there, of devaluation
and reinforcing the second class citizen status of women.  The guys
privates might as well have been sacred compared to a woman.  Those
were Patriarchal cultures.  Not, these Western cultures with their
whiny-a.s, passive-aggressive, victim-playing manipulation games which
females transparently get away with using in order to make rubber-
spine fathers, boyfriends and husbands accountable to her ...where,
they won't even obey the standard of EQUALITY.

...Say, like, where a 20 year old female hip-hop artist can end up by
threatening a 20 year old male hip-hop artist with four years in
prison because she struck him in his face while he was driving, after
nosing into his cell-phone and not liking what she found, then got
punched around with one hand for it.  When some cowardly pig-cop does
that to a kid, there's the same kind of silence that there, now, is
about Rihanna-Slut doing this to Chris Brown.  But, the (wrongly
defined, in both cases) authority relationship is different.

What happened with Chris Brown and Rihanna was not treated as a case
of equals, even though that is supposed to be the rationale.  It was
treated as a case of "Rihanna is worth more than Chris because she is
a female and he is a only male to be controlled".  A slave, because of
his gender ...to be disrespected, assaulted, and then, both, punished
and shamed if he dared respond to this higher ranking citizen class by
fighting back ...or, in any sort of an assertive manner.  It is, flat
out, class suppression.

These little sh.ts are everyone's toys.  Everybody winds them up, sits
back, and watches them go.  (Even a lot of traitor males, who gamble
that they don't require any bonds to their own sex.  Sure, not as long
as upsmanship and betrayal keep paying such a premium).  They always
think, act and bluster like they're making their own decisions.  But,
that's face-saving bullshit.

Proof is in the fact that these guys, here (getting back to the
Caterpillar union negotiations), go to all of this trouble for the
purpose of forcing negotiations simply to get the bosses to honor
their own original terms.  Omg...WTF's wrong here?  The purpose of a
union is to strongarm as many of your terms into the final agreement,
as possible.  Not, to remind your master of his/her promise to you.
Stupid f.cks.  Unions aren't worth sh.t, anymore.

...And, the biggest jokes, of all, are the momma's boys in the U.S.,
Britain and the other English-style countries, like Canada and from
"down under".  It's in the Celtic/pagan/witch origins that run through
these asinine cultures....

France: Caterpillar workers detain bosses

By Antoine Lerougetel
2 April 2009

Workers at Caterpillar's two plants in Grenoble, France, detained five
of their management team in their offices on Tuesday morning and held
them until 1 a.m. the next day. The workers have been on strike since
Monday.

On Monday, and again on Tuesday morning, management boycotted works
council meetings called by the unions to discuss a plan involving 733
redundancies out of the workforce of 2,800 at its Grenoble and
Echirolles sites. Earlier this year, US-based Caterpillar, the world's
largest maker of construction equipment, announced it would lay off
22,000 workers globally.

The French workers took the 5 management personnel hostage in order to
force the company to negotiate.

The Caterpillar workers' actions reflect deepening opposition among
workers in France to the attack on jobs and wages. Some 80,000 jobs
were lost nationally in February on top of 90,000 in January. The
latest estimate for the number of jobs that will be eliminated this
year is 400,000, though this figure is constantly rising. Two to three
million workers and youth participated in national demonstrations and
strikes in January and March to oppose the attack on jobs and social
programs.

The Caterpillar "bossnapping" is one of a series of similar actions
throughout France.

In February 2008 the workers at BRS in Devecey held their boss captive
because he had attempted to relocate all the machines in his factory
to Slovakia without informing them.

The following month, workers at the Kléber factory in Toul detained
two managers in order to obtain better redundancy terms.

In March of this year, the boss of Sony France was forcibly detained
at its plant at Pontons-sur-Adour. Two weeks later it was the turn of
the industrial manager of the 3M factory at Pithiviers near Orléans.
Both actions were attempts to obtain concessions from management over
redundancy terms.

On Tuesday François-Henri Pinault, the billionaire chief executive of
the retail and luxury group PPR, had to be rescued by riot police
after shop workers blocked his taxi for over an hour as he left a
meeting. They were protesting against the announced 1,200 job cuts at
his stores.

The German Continental tyre company is closing two plants in France
and another in Germany. Workers from the Clairoix plant near Paris,
incensed that the company had reneged on its promise to maintain jobs
until 2012 after workers had made considerable concessions in 2006,
burst into a board meeting in Reims March 16 and pelted their bosses
with eggs and shoes. The company was obliged to hold its Tuesday
central committee meeting 1,000 kilometres away in a hotel in Nice,
under strict security conditions.

On Monday, union delegates negotiating planned redundancies and
closures at the FCI Microconnections plant in Mantes-la-Jolie near
Paris held 2 of its directors in the meeting room for 4 hours until
the police intervened. The delegates were supported by 40 of the 150
workers who have been on a "preventive" strike and 24-hour picket for
6 weeks, in order to oblige the company to disclose its plans

The FCI directors had refused to give any guarantee of employment
beyond 2010. One of the workers said, "Life can't be reduced to
2009-2010. We have whole lives to live".

These actions reflect a developing class anger, fuelled by the multi-
million euro golden handshakes, bonuses and retirement deals for
France's top bosses.

The dispute at Caterpillar exposes the strategy of big business as
global capitalism plunges the world into depression.

The company makes large construction machinery in France and also
provides armoured vehicles for the British army and several other
countries. It produces the D9 armoured bulldozers that have been used
by the Israeli army to raze Palestinian housing.

Caterpillar's CEO James Owens was George W. Bush's nominee to an
advisory board for trade negotiations and is known for his ruthless
pursuit of profit through attacks on jobs and conditions. He was 181st
in the Forbes CEO incomes league for 2008, raking in $17 million. He
supported Barack Obama's Republican opponent John McCain in the race
for the White House. This has not prevented Obama from appointing him
to the Economic Recovery Advisory Board, tasked with restoring
profitability to big business through the destruction of the social
gains and living standards of the working class.

In January, in response to worsening economic prospects, Caterpillar,
which reported a profit of $3.5 billion last year, announced immediate
job cuts of 5,000, including 733 in France, and the ultimate
elimination of 22,000 positions worldwide. It predicts a 55 percent
drop in orders between 2008 and 2009.

Nicolas Polutnik, the general director of Caterpillar France, has
repeatedly asserted that the French plants can only be saved by the
sackings. He told the press, "It is absolutely necessary for us to
maintain the interests of the company under the threat of having to
deal with not just 733 job losses but all of them".

On Wednesday, management agreed to resume negotiations and offered to
pay the wages for the three days of strike action if the unions called
off the strike. Management is offering as severance 60 percent of a
month's wages per year worked, with a ceiling of €10,000.

The dispute also demonstrates the complete failure of the trade union
response to the mounting catastrophe facing the working class.

The delegates of the General Confederation of Labour (CGT), which is
close to the Communist Party, said they were maintaining their demand
for a €30,000 severance payment lump sum for all workers made
redundant, whatever their seniority, plus three months wages for each
year worked, and the pledge to keep the factory open.

As is clear from the concentration by the unions on the negotiation of
severance terms, they have no perspective for fighting the job losses.
Their bankruptcy is manifested by the "solemn appeal" to Sarkozy made
by the joint union committee at Grenoble on Wednesday morning. It
calls on the French president to request funds from the €500 million
European Fund for Adjustment to Globalisation for the victims of
sackings to "support the possibility of a rapid revival of our company
and of our subcontractors".

The appeal, read out to the press, requested that Sarkozy should get
the rules of the distribution of the fund changed so that they may be
used to finance a contract made with Caterpillar "in the form of a
loan". Currently the rules limit the use of the fund to subsidizing
the retraining of sacked workers.

The document goes on to state, "Without an effort by the American
group and the European Union no solution can be found for reducing
redundancies and letting those who wish to do so leave with dignity".

Sarkozy was quick to respond to the appeal of the Caterpillar joint
union committee, promising on Radio Europe 1, "I'm going to save the
plant. I will meet with the joint union committee since they appealed
to me for help. We will not let them down".

Workers at Caterpillar France should remember the promises made by
Sarkozy on February 4 last year to the steel workers at the Arcelor
Mittal foundry at Gadrange, where 575 were due to be sacked. These
same workers have now lost their jobs, and on Tuesday they
demonstrated, denouncing the "imposture and the treachery" of Sarkozy
and Arcelor's President Lakshmi Mittal.

Sarkozy declared, "Anyway, it's not my fault...if, as there's less
growth, there is less demand for iron."

Steeped in a culture of "defending" the interests of workers by
defending those of the employers and the political representatives of
capital, the unions advance the perspective that the way to oppose
unemployment is to help the capitalist class be profitable.

Only a struggle by workers at Caterpillar to break from the unions'
connivance with the government and the employers can result in a
successful outcome. Rejecting any deals based on accepting job losses,
workers must build independent organisations of class struggle in
their factories and workplaces, linking up with other workers across
national frontiers.

Such organisations must be armed with a programme for the socialist
reorganisation of the economy and the social ownership of plants like
Caterpillar to be run as public utilities under the democratic control
of workers.

-----

"So, it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to
guns, or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or
anti-immigrant sentiment, or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain
their frustrations."

~ Barack Obama, remarkably telling a truth that everyone has long
known about the coddled, overpaid DIRTBAGS, who - up until now -
everyone has been expected to flatter and pretend are wonderful, fair
people ...rather than, barely civilized savages, who require visible
demarcations of property in order to understand what a rule, or a law,
or a moral precept, is.

- - -

This has been another enlightening moment, with:

Turin

I have such sites to show you...
------------------------

http://www.myspace.com/turin_turambar      ∞
http://groups.google.com/group/Men_First/   ♂
http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/     ⚕

------------------------

"He who changeth, altereth, misconstrueth, argueth with, deleteth, or
maketh a lie about these words or causeth them to not be known shall
burn in hell forever and ever...."

-----
Masculist - 08 Apr 2009 19:08 GMT
> http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/entry90.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> as possible.  Not, to remind your master of his/her promise to you.
> Stupid f.cks.  Unions aren't worth sh.t, anymore.

Right you are Turin.  Unions now mostly serve women (feminists) in the
destruction of men and their families.  That's why the corporate guys
supported feminism...to break the unions.  Then with the acquiescence
of the feminists, they brought in a sh.t load of third world (Mexican)
workers to further weaken the unions.  T

We need a new kind of union.  Let's call it The American Union of Men
(AUM).  Sound good?

Smitty

> ...And, the biggest jokes, of all, are the momma's boys in the U.S.,
> Britain and the other English-style countries, like Canada and from
[quoted text clipped - 203 lines]
>
> -----
♫♪ Turin ♪♫ - 08 Apr 2009 21:20 GMT
> >http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/entry90.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> destruction of men and their families.  That's why the corporate guys
> supported feminism...to break the unions.

Yeah, you always say that.  But, then you always turn around and put
most of the blame on us Marxists.  The fact that Marxists are cooler
and better looking than capitalists, is no reason to come down on our
sociology.

> Then with the acquiescence
> of the feminists, they brought in a sh.t load of third world (Mexican)
> workers to further weaken the unions.  T

Of, course.  It's *always* the capitalists, behind the scenes.  Ninety
five percent of all issues that go on within their own borders,
because of their own policies, which would ostentatiously seem to run
counter to capitalist goals, they blame on us commies.

Feminism is probably the greatest example of this simplistic tarring.
Feminism and socialism are separate ideologies.  They often ALLY
themselves to each other for their separate agendas.

But, the feminist is inherently a capitalist.  She only USES the
socialist for her own ends and then throws him away, just like the
whore uses a Man.  Her definition of "socialism" is much closer to
"welfare state".  It's not the same thing as genuine socialism.

> We need a new kind of union.  Let's call it The American Union of Men
> (AUM).  Sound good?

I've seen your version of it.  You guys always take the sexist
approach and pretend that you're the kings and your homes are your
castles, while pretending that women's rights aren't factors that you
have to observe.  But, in the end, all that you accomplish is to allow
them to use/control you.

For example: Are you now ready to finally admit, publicly, what you
admitted, privately (in email
502761.66563.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com), in regards to your
daughter...?

You may as well, you know, because the truth is eventually going to
come out, from this end.  I've simply been setting my affairs in
order, in regards to certain women on my end, who played into that.
(Women, who are murderesses and pedophiles ...among other things).  Do
the right thing and the union shall be helping their fellow Men. ;D

- - -

Beloved of the Gods:

Turin

I have such sites to show you...
------------------------

http://www.myspace.com/turin_turambar/
http://groups.google.com/group/Men_First/
http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/

------------------------

"He who changeth, altereth, misconstrueth, argueth with, deleteth, or
maketh a lie about these words or causeth them to not be known shall
burn in hell forever and ever...."

-----

> Smitty> ...And, the biggest jokes, of all, are the momma's boys in the U.S.,
> > Britain and the other English-style countries, like Canada and from
[quoted text clipped - 205 lines]
>
> > -----
Masculist - 09 Apr 2009 18:01 GMT
> > >http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/entry90.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> Yeah, you always say that.  But, then you always turn around and put
> most of the blame on us Marxists.  

In 1969 I watched the feminists and their black identity slaves roll
over you marxists using your own bullshit.  I mean whose fault is
that?  Nixon?...well, maybe.

> The fact that Marxists are cooler
> and better looking than capitalists, is no reason to come down on our
> sociology.

<smile>  Yep, that's what it comes down to these days.  You poor
suckers are really on the ropes now.

> > Then with the acquiescence
> > of the feminists, they brought in a sh.t load of third world (Mexican)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> because of their own policies, which would ostentatiously seem to run
> counter to capitalist goals, they blame on us commies.

You commies are big boys, you can take responsibility for your own
actions.  It was the feminists and their sugar daddies who were able
to ignore the few marxists left in the unions.

> Feminism is probably the greatest example of this simplistic tarring.
> Feminism and socialism are separate ideologies.  

Tell that to E. Belfort Bax, the marxist who wrote in 1913 "The Fraud
of Feminism" for which he was rewarded by a total shunning of his
fellow marxists and sent to oblivion in "the movement".  He was the
leading American marxist before that book was published.

> They often ALLY
> themselves to each other for their separate agendas.
>
> But, the feminist is inherently a capitalist.  

Ain't that the truth!  Then why aren't you marxists attacking the
bitches?

> She only USES the
> socialist for her own ends and then throws him away, just like the
> whore uses a Man.  

Now you're taking responsibility Turin.  I'm proud of you as a fellow
ex marxist.

> Her definition of "socialism" is much closer to
> "welfare state".  It's not the same thing as genuine socialism.

Hmmm...it's been a long time since I talked to any real marxists since
most long ago were deballed by the feminists.  There was never many of
them anyway.  When I worked through the "Hall" in the early Seventies
in every industry and trucking dock in Buffalo, I met just one true
believing marxist.  He worked at the foot of one of those big molten
steel vats at Republic Steel.  I worked up above the vats on the cat
walks cleaning the new pollution control stuff.  Most of the workers
didn't give a sh.t about politics and knew the Union stuff had run
it's course.

I'm curious, what is "genuine socialism"?  Did you like my guaranteed
income proposal?

> > We need a new kind of union.  Let's call it The American Union of Men
> > (AUM).  Sound good?
>
> I've seen your version of it.  You guys always take the sexist
> approach and pretend that you're the kings and your homes are your
> castles,

We don't emphasize personal behavior but collective behavior.  It's
hard to be king of your castle if you can be thrown out of it at any
time without the kids and then raped by the government...if you know
what I mean.

> while pretending that women's rights aren't factors that you
> have to observe.  

Do we have a choice?

> But, in the end, all that you accomplish is to allow
> them to use/control you.

I think we men are all in that boat don't you?

> For example: Are you now ready to finally admit, publicly, what you
> admitted, privately (in email
> 502761.66563...@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com), in regards to your
> daughter...?

I forget what was in that email.  Send the quote.

> You may as well, you know, because the truth is eventually going to
> come out, from this end.  I've simply been setting my affairs in
> order, in regards to certain women on my end, who played into that.
> (Women, who are murderesses and pedophiles ...among other things).  Do
> the right thing and the union shall be helping their fellow Men. ;D

I always do the right thing and my "union" has been successfully
helping men since it's founding in 1986.

BTW, I love the musical notes by your name.  Very handsome.

Tom

> - - -
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>
> read more »
Andrew Usher - 09 Apr 2009 18:14 GMT
> > Feminism is probably the greatest example of this simplistic tarring.
> > Feminism and socialism are separate ideologies.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> fellow marxists and sent to oblivion in "the movement".  He was the
> leading American marxist before that book was published.

Was Bax really a Marxist or just a socialist? Of course, before 1917
there wasn't a clear difference.

> I'm curious, what is "genuine socialism"?  Did you like my guaranteed
> income proposal?

Hey, the guaranteed income is mine!

My definition of 'socialism' is the belief that men collectively have
a
primary responsibility for the social welfare of other men.

> I always do the right thing and my "union" has been successfully
> helping men since it's founding in 1986.

As far as I know, you haven't demonstrated this.

Andrew Usher
Masculist - 09 Apr 2009 19:17 GMT
> > > Feminism is probably the greatest example of this simplistic tarring.
> > > Feminism and socialism are separate ideologies.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Was Bax really a Marxist or just a socialist? Of course, before 1917
> there wasn't a clear difference.

You need to bone up on your history.  Bax was a protege of Marx.

> > I'm curious, what is "genuine socialism"?  Did you like my guaranteed
> > income proposal?
>
> Hey, the guaranteed income is mine!

I was the first tp propose it publically in the context of the men's
movement.

> My definition of 'socialism' is the belief that men collectively have
> a
> primary responsibility for the social welfare of other men.

Whatever.  I'm leery of it in any case.

> > I always do the right thing and my "union" has been successfully
> > helping men since it's founding in 1986.
>
> As far as I know, you haven't demonstrated this.

Humph.  You need to be more respectful.  How haven't I demonstrated
"it"?

Smitty

> Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher - 10 Apr 2009 01:25 GMT
> > Was Bax really a Marxist or just a socialist? Of course, before 1917
> > there wasn't a clear difference.
>
> You need to bone up on your history.  Bax was a protege of Marx.

Fine, but his anti-feminist ideas are just as valid for it.

> > > I'm curious, what is "genuine socialism"?  Did you like my guaranteed
> > > income proposal?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I was the first tp propose it publically in the context of the men's
> movement.

As I recall, your proof of this was a page that advocated the basic
income only as a possible suggestion secondary to your main goal
of imposing higher taxes on women and other things. Do you
have the cite - I looked for it in the e-mails and couldn't find it.

> > My definition of 'socialism' is the belief that men collectively have
> > a
> > primary responsibility for the social welfare of other men.
>
> Whatever.  I'm leery of it in any case.

Well I think this current economic problem demonstrates that there's
something fundamentally wrong with our system. Yeah, I know, I
probably shouldn't use the word socialism because it has so many
negative associations, but what else is there?

> > > I always do the right thing and my "union" has been successfully
> > > helping men since it's founding in 1986.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Humph.  You need to be more respectful.  How haven't I demonstrated
> "it"?

Sorry but I just don't believe that you have actually helped men.
That's
not a denigration as it doesn't seem as if anyone can.

Andrew Usher
Masculist - 10 Apr 2009 18:38 GMT
> > > Was Bax really a Marxist or just a socialist? Of course, before 1917
> > > there wasn't a clear difference.
>
> > You need to bone up on your history.  Bax was a protege of Marx.
>
> Fine, but his anti-feminist ideas are just as valid for it.

True.

> > > > I'm curious, what is "genuine socialism"?  Did you like my guaranteed
> > > > income proposal?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> income only as a possible suggestion secondary to your main goal
> of imposing higher taxes on women and other things.

True again.  Good work Andrew.

> Do you
> have the cite - I looked for it in the e-mails and couldn't find it.

It was in "The Masculist Trinity" which I published on the net around
2000 and discussed here aferwards.  You can find those discussions by
plugging in the Trinity in google groups search.

> > > My definition of 'socialism' is the belief that men collectively have
> > > a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> probably shouldn't use the word socialism because it has so many
> negative associations, but what else is there?

My approach is that there will always be some level of socialism but
that it needs to be masculist dominated and controlled instead of
feminist dominated as it is now.

> > > > I always do the right thing and my "union" has been successfully
> > > > helping men since it's founding in 1986.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> That's
> not a denigration as it doesn't seem as if anyone can.

Fair enough.  There is someone, probably the only one, who can help
men.  He's about to be remembered for dieing on the cross.  He's
called GOD.

Tom

> Andrew Usher
Meldon - 09 Apr 2009 18:23 GMT
> > > >http://turinturambar.fortunecity.com/blog/entry90.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 220 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

plendid posts all. There is much I agree with in this thread. I would
like to simplify come of the distinctions being made however. I see
evidence the left has simply attempted to decentralize power; noble
but flawed. That's the fems, the racials and the myriad of other
"special interest groups", unions, NGO's and so on. All this movement
did was to build more government and meta-government and the result
has been more restrictions and regulations. This is exactly what we
should not do.

So, I try to view situations as one of more government or less
government. More regulations or less regulations. More personal
authority or less personal authority etc. If the feminist
organizations began to rally for less government and more personal
responsibility, I might be inclined to support them. If a humanist
organization comes out rallying for individual liberty but want to
build regulations, I would be less inclined to support them.

Regardless, I see the argument shifting now. The divisions are about
to unify. If we're lucky, a united voice of the people will be heard
and things will begin to change at an individual level first, and
eventually creep through system.
 
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