Family Forum / Marriage / Divorce / September 2004

Probably get the same here.  But then, you don't have to ask, do you?

Screw that.  You should get half the equity.

You have the kids, why should you pay support?

You put the house on a credit card or something?  Sheesh...

In california she'd be paying you $5k*0.4 - $1.8K*0.5 = $1200/month in
alimony.  Plus whatever in child support.

A noble goal.  Odds are, the mother will take the kids anyway even though she
tells you that she won't.  Lull you into a false sense of security.

Hire a lawyer.  Go to a paralegal and get cheap rates.  Don't know why you;d
want to agree to her terms.  You'll just regret it later.

John, sounds like you NEED spousal support, AND child support.  If you can't
afford an attorney, you might want to look into some pro bono advice, or see
if you can find an attorney that will take a real property lien on your
share of the equity in the house in lieu of retainer.  Another alternative,
if you can't do any of the above, at the least is to get a book from Nolo
Press on how to do your own divorce.  (Not sure if they're published outside
California, though.)

Otherwise, if things keep going the way they are, it looks like you're
getting scr--  Well, you know what I mean...

I hope you'll be able to find a better way through this.  You and the kids
deserve her carrying her fair share of their expenses.

Some comments on her "settlement" below.  Bear in mind that I'm in
California and don't know where you are located; laws and typical
settlements are different in each state.  My comments are simply based on my
observations over the last 20+ years and are not legal advice - I'm not a
lawyer, but it sounds like you really need one.

Laura

If the house is community property, you should be entitled to half the
value, either cash out of the house or in kind from other property
(including retirement, etc.).

Sounds like you need alimony.  How long were you married?

This is typical; the higher wage earner usually pays medical insurance in
addition to child support, especially if it's available through employment
at reasonable or no cost.

This isn't "equitable" unless you're being covered by her medical insurance.
And even then, I'm not sure...

You have the kids and she's the high wage earner?  On what planet would you
ever have to pay child support?

What is the time share?

< snip>

I'd suggest get some support from the wife.  Another option would be to
contact DCSS (Department of Child Support Services) and ask them to get
child support for you.  They'll do it at no cost to you.

Crap, I had to read that twice....  She makes more than you do.  She should
pay you alimony (spousal support in California) and child support.  She is
trying to give it to you with out the benefits of lube.

What State are you in?  You need legal help now.  Look at others
recomendations, I'm sure someone will tell you how to get low cost legal
help.

John, think man, think!  You will need legal help to get what is owed.  My
wife makes more than I do (ROTFLMAO), and she will have to give stuff up to
avoid paying ME child support.  Wait until your divorce is final to hit the
job market hard.

You said "The question is - any suggestions how I can get a home, keep the
kids on more then bread & water, and pay my debt off?"  Your answer is make
her pay.  She should pay per the same amount a man would pay in her
situation.  You said you get the kids.  Is that 100% custody? Her child
support would be huge in that case.  She can't just scrap the young ones!

Good luck, lurk a bunch, post a little bit.

Big RJ

John,

Please tell us what state you live in.  With that information, we can point
you to free legal entities that will assist you in the dissolution,
alimony and child support.

Most counties provide free legal services for obtainint Child Support
and some provide the same for alimony and the divorce.

If you live in California, I can point you to those sites.

b.

If somebody told you that investing $5000 could net you $20,000, would you
beg, borrow, or somehow scrape up the five grand?  Of course you would.
While I am not a lawyer, this strikes me as an instance in which spending
the money on a lawyer might bring you a good return on the money - like half
the equity in the house, child support, and alimony.  While I don't know
you, or anything about your situation except what you've posted, I can tell
you that if I were in your shoes I'd come up with the money for a lawyer if
I had to borrow it from my grandma.  I'd probably spring for a good lawyer,
at that.

Well, of *course* she WANTS that.  It isn't right for her to get it, though.
Here's where a lawyer could help you out a lot.  You should get half the
equity in the house, and it sounds like you should get rehabilitative
alimony.  Seems like the rule of thumb I've heard is that you would get
alimony for a number of years equal to half the duration of the marriage.
Like I said, though, I'm not a lawyer and don't really know...

She will carry the medical coverage, except

Who has custody of the kids?  Assuming both of you are acceptable parents,
you should go for 50:50 custody - in which case, why would you pay child
support?

We

Your property settlement should spell out exactly who gets what, if you are
dubious.

My goodness, how is it possible to have $150K credit card debt?  Is that a
typo?

Oh, I see - so no way on earth should you be paying child support - but
*she* should.  Again, here is a case where a lawyer can get you more money
that you spend on him.  With your income disparity, I'd expect your child
support to be pretty high - enough to make a significant difference in
quality of life for you and the kids.

If you are working 70 hours a week who is keeping the kids?

Yeah - collect alimony and child support.  Depending on what the debt was
for (are these joint credit cards?) either file bankruptcy, or, if the
credit cards are in her name alone, try to get the debt allocated to her.

Don't sign ANYTHING.  Talk to a lawyer pronto.  It might seem like an
expense, but in your case it might really be a good investment.

If what you said is authentic, you are a good heart people to keep the
kids close to their mom. It is a good hearted spouse who get robbed in
divorce. I suggest you work out with your wife -- Keep the kids, she
pays child support according to state laws, split the equity according
your contribution of the house. You have an option to have her pay
alimony. KEEP HER HONEST.

the important point is

1) if you keep the kids, she MUST pay child support.
2) Work out in writing, bring the case to non contest to court w/o
your lawyer (work for me)
3) be reasonable but not merciful for her, she seems to take advantage
of your heart, your weakness. It happened to me, I have been there, it
is me who paid ultimate price being a good hearted person.

If you don't get the agreement, use equity as collateral to pay a flat
fee for your lawyer. Do not sign off your house, it is your leverage.
You keep the kids, she has leverage to remarry, and reclaim them later
as you can't support the kids. Keep final decision in writing in
court.

My EX was very deceptive when we divorced, I lost my health, job, joy
of life  and 10 yrs of my life because I wanted my child to be full
and my good hearted ignorance. I didn't ask for alimony or waiving
child support as my EX offered, it even surprise her lawyer who knew
the whole history.

Have been there, have experienced that, now I licked my wounds.

Do not loose your leverage.

I forget to mention you need advice from family court clerk, they are
there to give deadbeat person legal helps or to deal with others
lawyers. You might not need lawyer after all. My EX lawyer tried to
rob both of us providing un-needed services (life plan after divorce)
and false advices and threaten to sue me when I told him that I told
my EX he tried to rob his client.

This lawyer charged $100 to copies of a 15 pages doc, EX spent
thousands for him, while I solely paid for my child his necessary
clothing, food, entertainment and education.

Follow-up to my status - well I am still alive.

My soon to be ex-wife have exchanged a new set of "what we want"
documents.

Almost all of the points are resolved except two (of about 40).

I WILL get the kids in join and shared custody.  That means 50/50!
Woohoo!  The rest I don't give a dang, but still things have worked
out much better then expected.  She is willing to part with some
furniture, let me have one of the cards, remove me from all her credit
cards, and mortgage.  As for the debt, now it's 40% of it I have to
pay, 60% her - but this will most likely change even further as the
process to remove me from the mortgage requires an appraisal.  The
equity will be split 50/50 and instead of forcing her out, I will
"cover the debt" with my portion of equity.  i.e. if the equity is
120, my share of 60K, instead of cashing out, will be deducted from
the debt.

How did this whole thing work out so nice?  Let me tell you it didn't
look good at all.  Until I realized that if I play nice she will just
mow me down.

Turns out in my state if the couple had sex within 30 days of the
court hearing, the divorce is thrown out completely.  There is no
test, or review or proof requirement.  simply one of the partners
saying "yes your honor, she pleasured me last week", is sufficient.
Mentioning this to my soon to be ex, almost blew her top off. <grin>

Second, after talking to some people, declaring bankrupcy would be an
other option, which in turn would make her 100% responsible for all
debts.  Again, she wasn't too pleased.

Third, the separation requirement is 6 months, at least in separate
beds.  As such I can simply say that I was in and out of the bed.  The
sleeping separation arrangement cannot be broken, or the 6 months
starts all over again!  Bing! hit the roof again.

Still, I hated "threating" her with these options.  I was as polite as
possible about it.

I still have a life front of me, where I must make sure my children
are sheltered, fed and educated.

I have a plan laid out which is - get a job that brings in at least as
much as the two others, but only work from 8a-5p.  Get a house to
rent/own within my means, and the final part is pay off the debt as
fast and soon as possible.

Question:  Is there any advantage of me filing for divorce, as opposed
to her?

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