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Family Forum / Marriage / Divorce / January 2005and sons
the boot is on the other foot. my 17 yo son is here for the weekend - its *her* time with him but he wants to see me before I go off for 3 weeks. So he bought a paper and there was in the paper an article saying that Queen (the old pop group) would be appearing in the local thingy where these things happen and tickets would be on sale tomorrow. He phoned the box office and they said the paper was wrong - they were on sale today, and since the morning they had soold 12,000 tickets and had 400 only left. Dad - will you lend me 50 quid till friday when I get paid ? So we jumped in the car, called in his friend's house to collect his money for a ticket for him and went and bought tickets for them. He was so pleased and proud, he phoned his mum to tell her. She ridiculed him. All evening both my daughter and her mum phoned him telling him it wasn't Queen but was a tribute group. Apparently there is some guy standing in for Freddy Mercury (who I'm told is dead) but it *is* the real group. It says everywhere that they are including on the tickets. From here they looked like they were working as a team trying to put him down. Motive - jealousy - by the time they can buy tickets there will be non left. He works Saturday and Sunday in a shop and this is *his* money he's spending and its really the first time he's doing stuff like this. I think she could have shown more empathy and understanding of how he feels. Maybe I'm taking too seriously what is just family rivalries but he was very upset about it and when his mother phoned to say goodnight he wouldn't speak to her. He says he's staying here while I am away. So should I take advantage like his mother has ? I won't. I will tell him he should forgive her. But I think its time she grew up and opened her eyes. bogey > Maybe I'm taking too seriously what is just family > rivalries but he was very upset about it and when his [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I won't. I will tell him he should forgive her. No don't. He has the right to feel how he feels. > But I think its time she grew up and opened her > eyes. She is since a long while an adult. Forget about her but let your boy see what he is seeing and let HIM be the judge off it. > bogey  Signaturehttp://www.altsupportdivorce.org http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenos/home_page/divorce.htm >She ridiculed him. All evening both my daughter and >her mum phoned him telling him it wasn't Queen but >was a tribute group. Apparently there is some >guy standing in for Freddy Mercury (who I'm told is dead) >but it *is* the real group. It says everywhere that >they are including on the tickets. not only is Freddy dead, but also gay. i LOVED Queen, one of my favorites back in the 70's, especially for their live performances. Their visuals were awesome. My 18-yr old likes Queen, too, they were his favorite for awhile before he discovered Jefferson Airlplane (he's very into retro). I bet he'd jump at the chance to go to this show! >>She ridiculed him. All evening both my daughter and >>her mum phoned him telling him it wasn't Queen but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > discovered Jefferson Airlplane (he's very into retro). I bet he'd jump at the > chance to go to this show! Not sure how Freddy's being gay is relevant. what she said that upset him so much was that the seats he had bought were rubbish and he wouldn't be able to see anything. Xenos - I read your post too and I agree. bogey "Bogart" <Bogart@here.there.com> wrote... | what she said that upset him so much was | that the seats he had bought were rubbish and | he wouldn't be able to see anything. Someone ought to tell this woman that she's behaving like a miserable little child and its time to grow up. But that would be a waste of breath. [R] >Not sure how Freddy's being gay is relevant. He died of AIDS. > Joe St. Lucas wrote: > > Not sure how Freddy's being gay is relevant. > > He died of AIDS. Right before he died it was officially announced he was gay. I thought "No! Ya think?!?". I've always liked him/them, though I never got to see them perform live. Their new singer is Paul Rogers from Free/Bad Company/The Firm fame. I like him, too, but to me, Freddie Mercury was Queen. He was the soul and voice and the driving force that set them apart from other bands. I have a hard time picturing this, but the band members all claim it's fantastic. >>Not sure how Freddy's being gay is relevant. > > He died of AIDS. how is that relevant ? I really do not see how either being gay or dying of aids is at relevant to playing in a pop group. Should I dissuade my son from going to see the group ? Should he shun gay people or people that get AIDS ? bogey > >>She ridiculed him. All evening both my daughter and > >>her mum phoned him telling him it wasn't Queen but [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Not sure how Freddy's being gay is relevant. He died of AIDS. It was very sad :( > >She ridiculed him. All evening both my daughter and > >her mum phoned him telling him it wasn't Queen but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > discovered Jefferson Airlplane (he's very into retro). I bet he'd jump at the > chance to go to this show! Last I heard Robbie Williams was standing in for Freddy in Queen appearances. I love Queen! > the boot is on the other foot. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > bogey Tell him to forgive her, but not to let her get away with treating him like that. He needs to stand up for himself, not just lay there and take it. Otherwise, she wins and will continue to treat him that way. Perhaps your DD will see how badly they are both being treated if he finally stands up to her. She may be afraid to stand up to mom and that is why she sides with her. I'm glad you have him there with you. Cheryl Bogey, Her behavior will speak for itself as a stark contrast to your supportive role in securing the tickets. Good for you for helping him out. : ) I'm sure he will have a great time! http://www.queen.itsakindamagic.com/ donna "Bogart" wrote "Motive - jealousy" That is true of all the issues you have with her, Bogey....at least in my opinion. She is very jealous of you in about every regard. It's her problem. It's just impacting the kids, but she is clearly jealous. Denise > "Bogart" wrote "Motive - jealousy" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Denise Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Rambler > Rambler wrote: > Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. That's the irony. People who leave because they're not happy are quite often just not happy people to begin with. Their quest never ends. The Dave© said > > Rambler wrote: > > Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. > > That's the irony. People who leave because they're not happy are quite > often just not happy people to begin with. Their quest never ends. They're always looking for that magic thing that will make them happy. Casey >They're always looking for that magic thing that will make them happy. My husband has a magic thing that makes me happy. :-) mL said > >They're always looking for that magic thing that will make them happy. > > My husband has a magic thing that makes me happy. > :-) Geez ... we all know. I'll admit that I would never have guessed that a big screen TV could make a woman that happy. ;-) Casey > Casey wrote: > > My husband has a magic thing that makes me happy. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'll admit that I would never have guessed that a big screen TV could > make a woman that happy. ;-) I thought it was the mop and bucket he got her for Mother's Day last year. >I thought it was the mop and bucket he got her for Mother's Day last >year. ------- You laugh... Every mothers day I did ask for a new major appliance, like a good vaccuum cleaner (I mean a GOOD one), or ask for something that I need replacing that might cost more than I'd pay for it normally. But then again, that was because I am cheap. Deb. >I'll admit that I would never have guessed that a big screen TV could >make a woman that happy. ;-) Well, last night we watched Brad Pitt on it... >The Dave© said >> > Rambler wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >They're always looking for that magic thing that will make them happy. Barring some pretty extreme circumstances, the phrase "I'll be happy after/if ..." is one to run away from at speed. Naturally this is the voice of hard experience. I did observe that as the laundry list of my now-ex's "I'll be happy after ..." or "I'll be happy if ..." got satisfied, she got steadily unhappier. After the last very big one (a house, with gardenable yard and some other qualities) was satisfied, she got very much less happy, very quickly. To swipe a phrase, people are about a happy as they've a mind to be. SignatureRobert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences > Robert Grumbine wrote: > Naturally this is the voice of hard experience. I did observe that > as the laundry list of my now-ex's "I'll be happy after ..." or "I'll > be happy if ..." got satisfied, she got steadily unhappier. After the > last very big one (a house, with gardenable yard and some other > qualities) was satisfied, she got very much less happy, very quickly. Were we married to the same woman? >>The Dave© said >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > To swipe a phrase, people are about a happy as they've a mind to be. Being there/doing that ... I mean been there, done that. Rambler >>> The Dave© said >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Being there/doing that ... I mean been there, done that. You hang in there Rambly! LoriMc > Rambler >>>>The Dave© said >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > You hang in there Rambly! Thanks LoriMc! As posted elsewhere, same old same old. You know, I think I've vented the feelings here before many times, so there really is nothing new. God is certainly trying to get a bunch of messages through to me, and I am just not picking up that big clue phone. So sadness on the one hand, resignation on the other, fear on the third and hope on the fourth. And dya know, it was over asking a series of questions, followed by escalation in a six hour period. Go figure. When I typed the email on Monday morning, I *never* in my wildest dreams anticipated that it would lead where it lead by Monday evening. Wimmin! Bah! <sigh> ... I blame Yoop and The Dave squarely for this! Rambler > Rambler wrote: > Thanks LoriMc! As posted elsewhere, same old same old. You know, I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > phone. So sadness on the one hand, resignation on the other, fear on > the third and hope on the fourth. *nods in understanding* > And dya know, it was over asking a series of questions, followed by > escalation in a six hour period. Go figure. When I typed the email > on Monday morning, I never in my wildest dreams anticipated that it > would lead where it lead by Monday evening. Wimmin! Bah! > > <sigh> ... I blame Yoop and The Dave squarely for this! Hey now... > > Rambler wrote: > > Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. > > That's the irony. People who leave because they're not happy are quite > often just not happy people to begin with. Their quest never ends. Yeah, they need to look within to find Happy. >>> Rambler wrote: >>> Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yeah, they need to look within to find Happy. Yea, but maybe the well went dry... > >>> Rambler wrote: > >>> Whch is funny, because she left to be happy. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yea, but maybe the well went dry... Maybe it's the matter of perception.... Or maybe it's something needing medication. >> "Bogart" wrote "Motive - jealousy" >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Rambler She was always jealous of my travel. But she could have done it. bogey >>> "Bogart" wrote "Motive - jealousy" >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > She was always jealous of my travel. But > she could have done it. Again, Bogart, "things that make *you* go 'hmmmm!'" Rambler >>> Things that make you go hmmmmmm. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Rambler well actually originally I meant jealousy of my son not of me - she would have wanted to go to that concert too but it was too late to get tickets. bogey I think it is MORE about the fact that you took an interest in your son's interests... noticed when he really wanted to do something... and jumped in... ready to do battle to get the tickets and it sounds as if you both had alot of fun ... The inbetweens, the tideous facts... in the end do they really matter? The spontansous fun you both had - will be well remembered... :) Deb >He was so pleased and proud, he phoned his mum to tell her. > >She ridiculed him. <snip> >Maybe I'm taking too seriously what is just family >rivalries but he was very upset about it and when his >mother phoned to say goodnight he wouldn't speak to >her. He says he's staying here while I am away. Ok, this is just me, and it's probably strongly based on my own dysfunctional family history, but I think that about the worst thing that a parent can do is ridicule a child and make him feel small and stupid. However old he is. >So should I take advantage like his mother has ? > >I won't. I will tell him he should forgive her. >But I think its time she grew up and opened her >eyes. Yup. But one of the things that I've really learned here is that a lot of us are spending a lot of time hoping that our spouses or ex-spouses will behave in some way that they just haven't ever. That they'll grow up and understand. And maybe it will happen, but there sure is nothing that we can do to speed up the process... if it ever does happen. And so the only thing that you can do is be there and help build up that self-esteem that she's trying to kill. And try to make him understand that when she does that, it's about *her*, not about *him*.... which is really difficult to internalize, but it's all you can do. Nina _____________ "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer." -Albert Camus Bogart said > Maybe I'm taking too seriously what is just family > rivalries but he was very upset about it and when his > mother phoned to say goodnight he wouldn't speak to > her. He says he's staying here while I am away. > > So should I take advantage like his mother has ? No, you shouldn't take advantage of the squabble ... but it's not your problem to fix either. He and his mom need to work out their difficulties together without you being in the middle. > I won't. I will tell him he should forgive her. Maybe. Maybe not. My own two cents worth is to be neutral about their "disagreement", offer advice if he wants it, but don't get wrapped up in it yourself. I think that's what he needs from you the most right now. > But I think its time she grew up and opened her > eyes. Yeah, but it ain't gonna happen. Casey > Bogart said > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Yeah, but it ain't gonna happen. Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, when I read your post only one word popped into my head. Starts with a "B",...ends with an "H". > Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, > when I read your post only one word popped into my head. > Starts with a "B",...ends with an "H". I haven't a clue. Bush ? Balderdash ? Brush ? Honest - I can't think of one that applies bogey >> Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Honest - I can't think of one that applies You're not as crude as me apparently. The word was "bitch". I've tried to avoid using it since my recent overuse but it just seemed to fit as you were describing your ex's words to her son. >>>Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I've tried to avoid using it since my recent overuse but it just seemed > to fit as you were describing your ex's words to her son. I think he knew that. Rambler (British dry sense of humor) >>>> Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Rambler > (British dry sense of humor) No I didn't. I realised people would think I was being sarchastic but honestly I didn't know what was meant. bogey >>>>> Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>>> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > was being sarchastic but honestly I didn't > know what was meant. The word "honest" was my clue. >>>>>>Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>>>>when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > The word "honest" was my clue. Well, sheeit. I could have typed Bogey's exact answer. word for word, and meant a completely different thing. Honest. Rambler >>>>>>> Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>>>>> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Rambler projection Rambler, projection. bogey >>>>>>>> Lotsa good thoughts from everyone Bogey, but you know me, >>>>>>>> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > projection Rambler, projection. Way too many layers in this conversation for me to follow it. Rambler (and how is Australia?) > Rambler > (and how is Australia?) Things that also make you go 'hmmmmmm...' Rambler >> Rambler >> (and how is Australia?) > > Things that also make you go 'hmmmmmm...' > > Rambler not there yet - leave Wednesday bogey >>> Rambler >>> (and how is Australia?) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > not there yet - leave Wednesday Still going 'hmmmm...' lot of travel to that part of the world. Rambler >>>> Rambler >>>> (and how is Australia?) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Rambler so what does that mean ? (and don't just reply hmmmmmm). bogey Rambler said > > projection Rambler, projection. > > Way too many layers in this conversation for me to follow it. I personally wish that the word "projection" had never been uttered in this group. It seems to be used as a projectile way too often. Casey > Rambler said > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Casey Whenever I see the word "projectile", I think of my ex's projectile vomiting while pregnant, and no I wasn't projecting it would happen, I was too busy trying to get the hell outta the way. >> Rambler said >> > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > while pregnant, and no I wasn't projecting it would happen, I was too busy > trying to get the hell outta the way. Circle left. Dodge. Parry. >when I read your post only one word popped into my head. >Starts with a "B",...ends with an "H". You have a word in your vocabulary other than one that starts with "B" and ends in "T"? >> when I read your post only one word popped into my head. >> Starts with a "B",...ends with an "H". > > You have a word in your vocabulary other than one that starts with "B" and > ends in "T"? (Seems dubious). Oh jeez -- this being Google and all, I'm not sure how it's going to come out but - I'm tacking this onto Casey's post about this being a squabble between your son and his mum. He's old enough now to learn how to stand up for himself with his mother - without your intervention. I know how hard this is, having been thru very similar episodes with my own son and his dad. Offer advice if asked - hands off otherwise. Barb Oh jeez -- this being Google and all, I'm not sure how it's going to come out but - I'm tacking this onto Casey's post about this being a squabble between your son and his mum. He's old enough now to learn how to stand up for himself with his mother - without your intervention. I know how hard this is, having been thru very similar episodes with my own son and his dad. Offer advice if asked - hands off otherwise. Barb Oh jeez -- this being Google and all, I'm not sure how it's going to come out but - I'm tacking this onto Casey's post about this being a squabble between your son and his mum. He's old enough now to learn how to stand up for himself with his mother - without your intervention. I know how hard this is, having been thru very similar episodes with my own son and his dad. Offer advice if asked - hands off otherwise. Barb Oh jeez -- this being Google and all, I'm not sure how it's going to come out but - I'm tacking this onto Casey's post about this being a squabble between your son and his mum. He's old enough now to learn how to stand up for himself with his mother - without your intervention. I know how hard this is, having been thru very similar episodes with my own son and his dad. Offer advice if asked - hands off otherwise. Barb >> So should I take advantage like his mother has ? > >No, you shouldn't take advantage of the squabble ... but it's not your >problem to fix either. He and his mom need to work out their >difficulties together without you being in the middle. He can see the difference. Mom tried to drive a wedge between Dad and I. By the time I graduated I was barely on speaking terms with her. I got along with Dad just fine. There wasn't a 'generation gap,' even though he was 39 when I was born. Mom and I still don't see many things eye to eye. Never will. I'm 49 now and she's 72. My own kids have mixed feelings about their mother. When I told everybody I was getting a divorce, two of them told me they didn't know how I lasted this long. I got divorced after 27 years. >>>So should I take advantage like his mother has ? >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > was getting a divorce, two of them told me they didn't know how I lasted this > long. I got divorced after 27 years. thanks Icarus bogey >thanks Icarus There's nothing easy about this. My parents separated when I was 5 and I don't think I ever got over it. Up 'til the day Dad died, my brother and I often talked about "maybe they'll get back together now... Dad's health is failing, maybe...." They were married 10 years and separated 20. It wouldn't be until after I grew up some to realize how futile those hopes were. My ex-wife also came from a broken home. Her father would have very little to do with his first couple children. I had it a lot easier, my Dad lived down the street. He was never too busy to listen to my ramblings whenever I'd wander over to see him. His brother used to call me "Arab" because it meant "wanderer." To some extent I think that's part of the reason my ex and I stayed together as long as we did. We never should have had children. But its a little late after the fact. As it is, we can only live with the decisions that we have made. > Nearl J Icarus wrote: > My own kids have mixed feelings about their mother. When I told > everybody I was getting a divorce, two of them told me they didn't > know how I lasted this long. I got divorced after 27 years. After my now-ex-wife and I split I had almost a dozen people over the next several months tell me they were happy for me. And many of them were people that I didn't know were paying attention. >He works Saturday and Sunday in a shop and this is >*his* money he's spending and its really the first >time he's doing stuff like this. I think she could >have shown more empathy and understanding of how he >feels. When I bought my first car, Mom wasn't real thrilled with the idea. When Dad came by to visit, she said guess what he just did. Dad asked me what I bought, I told him. (it was a '65 Mustang Fastback). He said good for you. Mom gave him the funniest look. > Nearl J Icarus wrote: > When I bought my first car, Mom wasn't real thrilled with the idea. > When Dad came by to visit, she said guess what he just did. Dad asked > me what I bought, I told him. (it was a '65 Mustang Fastback). He > said good for you. Mom gave him the funniest look. I find this so funny... and familiar. |
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