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Family Forum / Marriage / Divorce / July 2005Poll: Lawyer's Bill
Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? Details on my divorce: o Mediator o Uncontested o 100% amicable o 6yrs worth of Stock Options o 401K QDRO from me to her o 1 child, minor, 4yo o 50:50 custody request o 2.5yrs of wish-washing, I figure that's worth $3-5k in errs o No property or other financial divisions needed by the court o That's it -------------------- total cost: +$18,000 (my new boat in '06!) Dear ex and I believe this is absolutely ridiculous as we agreed on everything. Lawyer had to figure some stock option stuff, but again, we believe the 20hrs he spent figuring my stock options was ridiculous. His original quote was a $5,000 divorce max. Please pass the Vaseline. (Oh, and the connection with her firm didn't work. Her CPA firm does his law firm's taxes, so the boss called the boss to cash in a professional courtesy... the lawyer claims I disputed the stock options. I see it differently, as does dear ex.) Wanna know what others paid for their divorces, from nasty to DIY, just to get a feel. If you don't mind posting that painful memory, that is... We go to court Friday. - Saul We filed our own, no lawyers involved. Total cost was about $100 in court fees. I recognize that this is a bit unusual though. We had no kids together and no disagreements on how to handle assets. Plus here in Indiana if it is uncontested it is pretty easy. Maybe a little too easy. Mike >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Saul Did you sign a fee agreement or at least have an hourly rate stated? Ask for an itemized billing showing the time spent in your case. If you believe that its clearly excessive, you can file a grievance with the bar association or the licensing agency in your state. =R= ---------------------- > Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Saul >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? >-------------------- >total cost: +$18,000 (my new boat in '06!) That does seem awfully high. Contested cases with lots of discovery and several days of trial can cost a lot less than that. I have trouble even imagining what the guy could have been doing for that much time in an uncontested case such as you have described, where y'all did a lot of the work yourselves. What kind of hourly rate are y'all paying? How many hours did he claim to have put in on this? Did the bill include a lot of work by a paralegal or legal assistant or similar? Examine the reported time usage carefully; that 20 hours for analyzing stock options sounds excessive to me, too. That would be 2.5 full days of 8 hours each! I'm talking with a lawyer friend today to find out if much has changed since I used to know about this stuff, then will be getting down to the grind of drafting our petition and so forth. We're hoping to work out everything ourselves and not have any expense but the filing fees. The main sticking point is the house - not that we are arguing over it, but neither of us can afford to buy out the other one's equity, and we are having a hard time figuring out what to do about it. BP Hourly rate of $285. Grievance is what we're thinking if he doesn't drop the bill. - Saul > >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > >-------------------- [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > BP >> >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? >> >-------------------- >> >total cost: +$18,000 (my new boat in '06!) You had no idea? The guy just kept adding up hours thinking you'd eventually pay up? He should have let you know what was going on, money-wise. That's only 63 hours of time at $285/hr. The sorest part is that dear lawyer kept racking it up w/o telling ex or me what was going on. His initial estimate was $5k, then he sent a $6k bill last week, another $7k this week, and says he has more b/c he hasn't figured July's cost yet. First we heard about all this was last week. We had NO idea, then BOOM, landmine, limbs flying everywhere. Summary of his bill: What hrs $$ --------------------------------- Settlement 30.5 $ 8,692.50 Stock 13.4 $ 3,819.00 Phone 11.0 $ 3,135.00 Research 2.9 $ 826.50 Custody 2.3 $ 655.50 Email 2.0 $ 570.00 Petition 1.0 $ 285.00 --------------------------------- Grand Total 63.1 $17,983.50 Anyway, I'm trying more to get a feel for what a divorce actually has cost folks. 30hrs on the settlement is nuts, and I didn't spend 13hrs worrying about my damn stock options. And can that dude ramble on the phone or what! Has anyone come close to this type of billing? Over an AMICABLE divorce? In any case, this should be settled Friday, so lemme say: Ladies, start your engines! ;) Truly it will be a day of celebration and numbed-out pain, like yanking a beloved tooth, and Saul's gonna cut loose in Dallas. - Saul > >> >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > >> >-------------------- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pay up? He should have let you know what was going on, money-wise. > That's only 63 hours of time at $285/hr. > Has anyone come close to this type of billing? > Over an AMICABLE divorce? In some places, unless you dispute a billing within short period of time, like 20 days, in writing, it is deemed to be accepted as stated. So, I would, at a minimum, suggest that as soon as your hearing is over, you hand him a statement which says: In your opinion (the both of you, if possible) believe that the billings are erroneous, there must be errors in the time records becuz as its simply not possible that that amount of time was spent on those items, that you want copies of the time logs to review, you would be willing to pay a reasonable fee, but not one which which appears to be clearly excessive, and would like to resolve this matter "amicably" without to resort to other forums. BTW, if you want to take this to court, you may need to have an expert witness (another attorney) willing to review the records and testify what a reasonable fee would be. =R= > In any case, this should be settled Friday, so lemme say: Ladies, > start your engines! ;) Truly it will be a day of celebration and > numbed-out pain, like yanking a beloved tooth, and Saul's gonna > cut loose in Dallas. "I'll alert the media." (from the movie "Arthur"). :-) 8:15AM CST, Friday, July 29, 2005, I should be in the process of finalizing my divorce. Thanks for the advice on the bill. We are formally disputing it and dear ex contacted another lawyer (the mediator is her lawyer, so it's her bill in the end). Next step is for me to go Ed Norton in the lawyer's office (Fight Club -- if you've never seen it, rent it tonight). Both sad and happy day. I'm a wreck today. Didn't think I would be, but there it is. I hit the gym hard, saw a cutie and had NO inclination to approach her (that's anti-Saul, as most of you know), even did sit-ups next to her without checking her cleavage while she bent backwards over the Pilates ball (God bless whoever invented that thing, btw, I need one in the BR at home, so many options for a pliant woman ;). Wish I'd found this group earlier than March of this year. It's been a rough 2.5yrs and everyone here's been a great help. It'll be nice to bury this and truly start over with someone else. Didn't think I'd need a moment of mourning, but I might've been wrong. I guess I'll have to mourn on the golf course and get drunk tomorrow afternoon. Dammit. Too bad there's not a Hooter's golf tourney tomorrow... AAAAGH! (there went a handful of hair) - Saul > > Has anyone come close to this type of billing? > > Over an AMICABLE divorce? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > "I'll alert the media." (from the movie "Arthur"). :-) >8:15AM CST, Friday, July 29, 2005, I should be in the process of >finalizing my divorce. Hope it goes well and smoothly for you. Prayers and good thoughts heading your way. BP >> Has anyone come close to this type of billing? >> Over an AMICABLE divorce? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > expert witness (another attorney) willing to review the records and > testify what a reasonable fee would be. =R= Why would the expert have to be an attorney if we're talking about how much time something should take? An administrator from a big law firm, especially one who has worked at several firms, would have as much or more expertise in the area. Also check the paralegal's time sheets to see who's doing the actual work. Divorces are relatively simple, even contested ones (same questions repeatedly, same law) and when I worked for a divorce firm the attorneys might spend an average of 6-10 hours on a case, plus court appearances. That firm charged a flat fee of $1,500 or so on average. > The sorest part is that dear lawyer kept racking it up w/o telling ex > or me what was going on. His initial estimate was $5k, then he sent a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Phone 11.0 $ 3,135.00 > Research 2.9 $ 826.50 Paying him to study law? > Custody 2.3 $ 655.50 > Email 2.0 $ 570.00 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Has anyone come close to this type of billing? Over an AMICABLE > divorce? There are ways to dispute fees. I'd be curious to see ALL of his timesheets myself. If he doesn't keep them, well... >>Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? >>-------------------- [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > it, but neither of us can afford to buy out the other one's equity, > and we are having a hard time figuring out what to do about it. Rofl ... I (guess) I am over $100K at this time. I have no idea what the cost for my ex is, but I'd think she is around $80K. Kid you not. I spent $50,000, and then got Legal aid thereafter. That was 18 months ago, so go figure, Got to be more than $100K. Ex was on aid since the beginning. A lot of dough, especially when my eldest says, "I don't have any money to buy ...." <Sigh> Divorce sucks. Ex is a b*tch. Ah well. Rambler [snip] >Wanna know what others paid for their divorces, from nasty to DIY, just >to get a feel. If you don't mind posting that painful memory, that >is... Paid an initial retainer of $1000. Had to pay another $150 or so after the fact. Ex and I drew up the agreement ourselves; my lawyer made one minor change -- his made none. My lawyer accepted the Nolo forms I'd already completed, which saved us some of the paper/paralegal costs that might have been tacked on otherwise. Barb $75. My ex retained an attorney, I didn't bother. Signed the paper that I wasn't going to be represented and wasn't showing up in court. We pretty much agreed on everything, his attorney filed all the paperwork and went to court for the 5 minutes it took to dissolve over 17 years of my life. I had another attorney read over the final decree and "bless" it for me, she charged me $75. I had to go to her house because her kid came down sick the day we had the appointment, and I don't think I was there more than an hour if that. She commiserated with my situation; her sister's husband had just done the mid-life crisis thing, leaving the sister and their 5 children. I don't remember exactly what he paid his attorney, maybe $1K or so if that. (She was a member of our church and could have discounted her fee for all I know.) But then again, my wedding didn't cost much either. $500 for the reception. Nothing for the dress, it was my mother's. I'd be surprised if the total for flowers, rehearsal dinner, wedding, reception, organist, invitations, photos, etc. came to more than $2K, and it could have been less than that, I just don't remember. What can I say, we're pretty cheap. :) -- Barbara Sz. > Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? god, sore subject! I wasn't even married and we were congenial, wrote out an agreement about house/kid/expenses, all nice and neat....and then in came the insane girlfriend and her demands and suddenly the ex was "My lawyer will be in touch" so....he wouldn't do mediation....bah...I don't even know what the final tab was, maybe $4000? sickening.... > $75. My ex retained an attorney, I didn't bother. Signed the paper that > I wasn't going to be represented and wasn't showing up in court. We [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? After dealing with this for 28 months: $11,000 for criminal lawyer to fight fake accusations STBX made about me $5,500 for divorce lawyer so far not to mention: $26,000 voluntary child support (not court ordered) $32,000 voluntary alimony Fortunately the state is paying for her mental rehabilitation after they realized she was totally insane a year ago or I'm sure I would have had to pay for that. None of the marital assets have been divided... it's a hot dispute. Plus she has the nerve to ask for some random $2000 in back alimony.(??) I can't help but think this: Cost of lawyers, $16,500 Cost of the STBX's lifestyle to support my kids and her new boyfriend living in our house: $58,000 Cost of not being able to contact my kids in any way for 16 months: $immeasurable The feeling of vindication as they dragged her kicking and screaming into the mental institution as I got my kids back.... PRICELESS. >$26,000 voluntary child support (not court ordered) >$32,000 voluntary alimony Voluntary isn't tax deductible. ROFLMAO!! Damn that's funny Slarty. In fact it's "Priceless"! > After dealing with this for 28 months: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > The feeling of vindication as they dragged her kicking and screaming > into the mental institution as I got my kids back.... PRICELESS. > Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? $0.00. That's zero dollars for lawyer fees. He walked out, the old ILYBINILWY excuse. No children involved. Did the researched and found the proper documents needed, typed up the documents, filed, waited for the court date, went (alone) to the court house, signed all the dotted lines. Total cost was the filing fees plus court costs which I paid just to get it over with... LoriMc >> Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > > $0.00. That's zero dollars for lawyer fees. Same here. $0.00. "Pro se" divorce (means literally, "for yourself" - from Latin) > Did the researched and found the proper documents needed, typed up the > documents, filed, waited for the court date, went (alone) to the court > house, signed all the dotted lines. Same, except we went together. > Total cost was the filing fees plus court costs which I paid just to get it > over with... > > LoriMc Same - except I'm not sure how much of a rush there was. It just was the way it had to be, I suppose. Total cost was maybe $75 - can't remember now. >>> Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Same, except we went together. Had him sign a notarized waiver so he didn't have to make a court appearance and I could go on my own. Emotionally I was a walking disaster, I didn't want anyone who had caused me so much pain near me... ever again. >> Total cost was the filing fees plus court costs which I paid just to >> get it over with... > > Same - except I'm not sure how much of a rush there was. It just > was the way it had to be, I suppose. Total cost was maybe $75 - > can't remember now. Wasn't any kind of a rush. Getting him to pay his half was not worth me having to contact him repeatedly, so I just paid for it and moved on. Came to a couple hundred dollars if I recall. LoriMc >>>> Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and I could go on my own. Emotionally I was a walking disaster, I didn't > want anyone who had caused me so much pain near me... ever again. Well, that makes sense, especially since it seems it was completely one-sided in your case, I gather, which has to be even worse. For me.... well, I'm still trying to figure out how I felt - and feel now, so I can't answer this too well. It's like .... Minestrone soup, or a stew - it's all mixed up. Can't make out the pieces.... Well, ok, I do know that when I did walked in there with her, it just felt a bit clinical - and a bit surreal. I don't know how to explain it. It was kind of like I was there, she was there, but - were we really there? And where is "there"? And, to top it off, for the 'coup de gras'....I'm thinking of the County Clerk Office, and how it all boiled down to a piece of paper, and "...thank you, good luck. Next customer???" >>> Total cost was the filing fees plus court costs which I paid just to >>> get it over with... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > having to contact him repeatedly, so I just paid for it and moved on. Came > to a couple hundred dollars if I recall. I can't remember how much it was for sure, but I don't think it was that high (sounds a little high over there!). As for the "moving on" part, I'm gonna plead the 5th. I'm not sure what this will cost be. but so far it's just the $1,500 retainer. All that we have to work out, I guess, is my pension and other retirement fund I have. The ex is saying she doesn't work, and can't work (something about being in to much physical pain) No kids involved (all grown). We were married 28 years and I left her 3 years ago, and am now finally getting a lawyer. I thought the $1,500 was high. Guess I better start saving :( >Poll on your divorce: How much was your lawyer bill? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Saul |
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