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Family Forum / Marriage / Divorce / February 2007Gary Chapman (Amy Grant's ex-husband) has seperated from his 2nd wife Jen
apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it there. this is where I read the news http://tinyurl.com/yn4lcj I assume it's true. no reason not to believe it. Amy Grant had an affair with country singer Vince Gill in the early to mid 1990s, and she divorced her husband, Gary Chapman, around 1997, and married her lover Vince Gill around 1999. Gary has been in a downward spiral, recently getting arrested for drunk driving IIRC. and now he and his second wife, Jen, have apparently legally seperated.. gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up so incredibly badly. > apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it > there. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up > so incredibly badly. Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these Christian freaks shove family values down everyone else's throat but have no idea what it means. They're so concerned about gays having kids with 2 daddies yet have no problems shuttling their bastard children back and forth between their real dads and stepdads. Amy Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man. > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's > very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man. Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There were big problems in the marriage that have nothing to do with another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only) thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was. nancy > > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of > > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > another man coming along. It's the first (and really, just about only) > thing I learned about Amy Grant, was how troubled her marriage was. Not only drinking issues, but drug issues as well. He's always been a punk .... think of him as Amy Grant's Kevin Federline or Bobby Brown, if you will. The sad thing is that she felt obligated to stay with him for so long (and kept popping out babies with him). She regretted marrying him almost as soon as the vows were said. Every interview with her through the years had an underlying theme about the difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one telling quote from every interview. > > > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of > > > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one > telling quote from every interview. Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message, it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. Lots of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair. As far as Amy Grant goes, I heard about her when she was 19, and was playing a small venue. She's pretty attractive, and at one point in the concert she put down her guitar and talked honestly about how lonely her life was and how she'd love to have a significant friend. I wasn't there but a friend who was recounted that after the concert it was 'standing room only' backstage as just about every single guy in the house wanted to help 'take away her pain.' lol. >> > > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of >> > > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > 'standing room only' backstage as just about every single guy in the > house wanted to help 'take away her pain.' lol. Amy Grant's career was founded on (and probably still grounded in) Christian music. If you were familiar with her body of work, you would understand how silly the accusations of hypocrisy are. She has recorded a lot of music that support on uphold general Christian values - but not song that espouse the message of hate that has become the backbone of fundamentalist, republican, Christians. I was a huge fan of hers through the mid 90s - and haven't listened much since her last contemporary pop album (non-christian). I often listen to one of her Christmas albums and the song "Up in the attic" still moves me, in spite of myself... I am not terribly religious (not affliated with any church) and I am a hawk when it comes to hypocritical behavior. I have never found her body of work, nor her behavior as an adult woman, to be hypocritical. Her core beliefs may be different from mind, but she seems focused on the message of Jesus - love... not the tyrannical retribution laden messages of Paul...  Signature-J ** Keeper of Bette Midler and Betty Buckley ** > Still, when she founded her entire career on her Christian message, > it's awfully hard to ignore the fact that she still had an affair. But aren't Christians forgiven for their sins? OK I'm being cynical. Temily > > > > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of > > > > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > of people live in very difficult marriages and regret their choice for > marriage, but that doesn't excuse an affair. It wasn't a sexual affair - they have both said in public that there was never even a kiss before she was divorced. I do agree that it was an emotional affair, though, and Vince acknowledged that it was "probably" an inappropriate friendship in an interview w/Larry King a couple of years ago. I believe them, because Amy is always blurting out things even to this day that someone wouldn't do if they were trying to hide or lie. She recently said something about how her love for golf has now considerably waned, and she's come to the conclusion that her golf obsession (during the latter part of her marriage) was mostly because she was "stalking" Vince at the time. >> > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of >> > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one > telling quote from every interview. Their pastor stated that their divorce was allowable because it was "biblical grounds". That means one or the other committed adultery. Supposedly Gary told Amy he would stop begging her to stay in the marriage, so she felt "released". Here are the links to their dualing interviews if anyone's interested. Both interviews are from 1999 or 2000. http://www.ccmmagazine.com/features/26.aspx?Page=1 http://www.ccmmagazine.com/features/1394.aspx >> Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has >> had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one > telling quote from every interview. You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly. I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out. nancy > >> Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has > >> had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > nancy I dont fault her for getting out or regrettig she married him in the first place. I do fault her for having an affair PRIOR to getting out of her marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I fault Gill too. >> You really nailed what I had read about their marriage. Exactly. >> I'd forgotten about the drugs, but I did remember what a flat out chore >> staying married was for them. I can't fault her for getting out. > I dont fault her for getting out or regrettig she married him in the first > place. I do fault her for having an affair PRIOR to getting out of her > marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I > fault Gill too. Well, life goes on. At any rate, I was responding to the 'she ruined Gary's life' thing. He has taken care of that all on his own. nancy > > >> Without getting into what's right, what's wrong, Gary Chapman has > > >> had major drinking issues long before Vince Gill showed up. There [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > marriage and I fault her for having an affair with a married man. Btw, I > fault Gill too. although I do fault her for ending her marriage, I can go along with what you said. it's far more reasonable than what the vast majority of Amy fans say and think. > > > Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of > > > redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? I love how these [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > difficulties in her marriage ... I could probably gather at least one > telling quote from every interview. she wasn't forced to marry him. they had a difficult marriage, so what. that didn't give Amy Grant the right to have an affair (sexual or of the heart) with another man, divorce her husband Gary, and get "married" to her lover, and wreck TWO families. >> apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it >> there. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's > very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man. Just because someone is a Christian does not mean that they are perfect! The fact that someone professes to be a Christian proves that they know that they are not perfect and that they need a savior. >Aren't Amy Grant and Chapman devout Christians living in the heart of >redneck country? Isn't she some Christian singer? No, they are false-christians, trinitarians. Pastor Winter SignatureApostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6? http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon > > apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it > > there. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's > very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man. I wholeheartedly agree with you. > > > apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it > > > there. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I wholeheartedly agree with you. As far as Amy ruining Gary's life... if he feels that way, and we do not know that...he (or anyone for that matter) should never let one person have that much control or power over your life to begin with. Beleive me, it is natural to feel hurt and be mad after a divorce, but you either pick youself up and get on with it or you wallow in it and then you are ruining your own life...not your ex! Wow u have some bitterness. Amy Grant was a christian singer ..whom as a Christain, I, do not agree with how she handled her personal life. If her heart was lusting after another man it was adultry whether there was premarital sex or not..so the Bible states adultry, premarital sex is wrong and so are homosexuals. Nobody can ruin somebody else life they chose to ruin their own life...i've learned that the hard way. I agree there are some Christians that are not very good examples or role models, but just like everything else don't stereotype everyone just because of somebody elses mistake...God grants forgiveness to those who confess, repent, and change their ways....Christains aren't perfect, nobody is, we all sin one way or another. >> apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it >> there. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Grant needs to keep her legs closed. She ruined this guy's life. It's >very hard to live it down having your wife cheating with another man. > apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it > there. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up > so incredibly badly. > apparently it was mentioned on Amygrant.com but I can't find it > there. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up > so incredibly badly. thats is soo true..What parents fail to realize is that their separation adversely impacts their kids.... Regards Mike, <a href="http://pakistan-gifts.com">Pakistan Gifts Store</a> also their actions matter too!!!! > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up > so incredibly badly. People divorce every day.Amy and Vince are very happy. Why feel bad for the kids? Their mother is happy and in a loving relationship. Gary has issues but there is no doubt they are loved e > > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up > > so incredibly badly. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Gary has issues but there is no doubt they are loved > e why feel bad for the kids? because their home was broken when Amy decided to break it up. so what if Amy and Vince are happy in their adulterous "marriage".... that doesn't mean Amy's kids are happy. Amy might be in a 'loving' relationship but its really nothing more than affair in my eyes, and in the eyes of many many real Christians. >Amy might be in a 'loving' > relationship but its really nothing more than affair in my eyes, and in > the eyes of many many real Christians. Why is it always those who define themselves as "real Christians" who are the most judgmental and sanctimonious? No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe him/herself as a "real Christian." > No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe > him/herself as a "real Christian." I remember once..a person said, "I am a christian because they I do good deeds, live a good life, never hurt anyone and basically treated others as I wanted to be treated themselves. I live a good christian life." And someone else piped up and said... I am a christian because I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for them and forgave me my sins. I've taken Jesus personally into my life and here is what the Bible says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 and "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16 And someone else said.. "I had to write whether i was a Christian or 'other' in a legal application, so I wrote that I was a Christian because i am a Catholic and i go to mass every Sunday". His friend said, "Yes, I'm anglican and I pray every night, so i'm christian". All had a view on what their belief of what being a Christian was, and who can say one is more right over the other? Temily they I Sorry about the confusion in 1st and 3rd person..i wrote it as 3rd originally and then changed it to 1st and forgot some bits! (before the gramarians come into force!) Temily http://christianparty.net/talmud.htm >> No "real Christian" (if such a thing could even exist) would describe >> him/herself as a "real Christian." [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Temily God. And what His word tell us, is that it is a true, living faith that matter. "For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." - Romans 4:3 SignatureAzaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved" <((>< <((>< <((>< "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - John 17:17 . >> > gotta feel bad for their kids when both parents (Amy and Gary) mess up >> > so incredibly badly. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > why feel bad for the kids? because their home was broken when Amy > decided to break it up. I can tell you from experience that it's the kids who suffer the most in virtually every situation. Adults make decisions that greatly affect their children but rarely ever consult them before hand. > so what if Amy and Vince are happy in their adulterous "marriage".... > that doesn't mean Amy's kids are happy. You are SOO right! I would bet a paycheck that the kids are really very unhappy. > Amy might be in a 'loving' relationship but its really nothing more > than affair in my eyes, and in the eyes of many many real > Christians. Yeah, I would have to agree with you. It's one thing to have a marriage that is in trouble but to compound that by having one or more affairs is really adding insult to injury. > I can tell you from experience that it's the kids who suffer the most in > virtually every situation. Adults make decisions that greatly affect their > children but rarely ever consult them before hand. And so they shouldn't either. If children were in the consultative process when a couple is divorcing it would be very messy. When the children grow up..they usually don't consult their parents either if they're going through a divorce. A divorce is between two people - the person and their spouse. Yes it impacts the children and every measure should be made to make the transition less painful, but it's a painful process for all concerned where all suffer in varying degrees. Temily temilyp@hotmail.com says... >When the children grow up..they usually don't consult their parents >either if they're going through a divorce. The last time my X wanted a separation I talked to Mom one of my uncles about it, (I wasn't going to play the 'separation' game, I would have filed for a divorce instead). A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was one of the first people I told about it. (it wouldn't have done much good to tell Dad about it, he had long since passed away). >A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was > one of the first people I told about it. Telling is a little different to consulting. But i know what you mean..It's probably more likely for grown kids to talk with parents about it than parents to talk with children...unless the children are grown i guess. Temily temilyp@hotmail.com says... >>A couple years later when I did file for a divorce, Mom was >> one of the first people I told about it. >Telling is a little different to consulting. But i know what you When the X wanted a separation, I did talk to Mom about it. When I told her about what I was trying to do to, her words were, "She knows how to make you dance. When you find out how to get her to dance, you've got it made." I never did find out what the key was. There weren't a whole lot of people I knew that were divorced whom I'd take any advice from. My parents were together 10 years and separated 20. My uncle was divorced. > There weren't a whole lot of people I knew that were divorced whom I'd take > any advice from. My parents were together 10 years and separated 20. My uncle > was divorced. Is that because you didn't know that many people that were divorced? Or because you don't think divorced people would give good advice? Or because they have been separated for longer than they've been together? Sometimes I wonder why people stay together when they're obviously not happy..so from a 'divorced' person's perspective...I wonder if it's because they're too lazy/scared/safe/insert whatever reason/ to make any changes? I don't think being divorced is the end of the world. It can be devestating at the time..but it can also be the beginning of something pretty fantastic! Divorce can be a new beginning! I just want to thank the woman my ex went with..because if they hadn't..i'd still be in an apathetic marriage and not as happy as i am now! Temily temilyp@hotmail.com says... >Is that because you didn't know that many people that were divorced? Or >because you don't think divorced people would give good advice? Or >because they have been separated for longer than they've been together? There weren't that many people I knew who were divorced and whose opinion had any credibility. There were a group of us who hung out together when I was a lot younger. I was the first one that got married and the last one that got divorced. I wouldn't necessarily ask them for any advice. 8-/ >Sometimes I wonder why people stay together when they're obviously not >happy..so from a 'divorced' person's perspective...I wonder if it's >because they're too lazy/scared/safe/insert whatever reason/ to make >any changes? In some respects its like the car you have. You know all the little bugs about it and how to get it to start on a cold night. Do you really want to trade it in for something that will eventually require work anyway but you don't know what the bugs will be when they creep in. Personally, if I had fewer kids, my marriage would have ended a whole lot earlier. There was no way in hell I was going to leave their upbringing to her alone. >I don't think being divorced is the end of the world. It can be >devestating at the time..but it can also be the beginning of something >pretty fantastic! Divorce can be a new beginning! Are you one of those damned optimists? 8-/ Divorce can be a lot of things, that is for sure. Nuclear energy can be that big mushroom cloud or it could be that thingy that supplies your city with electricity. >I just want to thank the woman my ex went with..because if they >hadn't..i'd still be in an apathetic marriage and not as happy as i am >now! I hear ya. I drank a toast to husbands and wives one time. If it weren't for them, Linda and I wouldn't have been able to get togther. >Do you really want to trade it in for something that will eventually require work anyway but >you don't know what the bugs will be when they creep in. You'd rather stick with the old bomb then? Even if it makes you as miserable as old boots! > Personally, if I had fewer kids, my marriage would have ended a whole lot > earlier. There was no way in hell I was going to leave their upbringing to her > alone. Oh yes. I can see your parenting together would have made a difference to the happiness of your home... > Are you one of those damned optimists? Well i do believe pessimism and feeling sorry for yourself in this world can be overturned with a good dose of optimism. Which is probably why i question the elective use of so many prescriptive drugs for adults and children. > I hear ya. I drank a toast to husbands and wives one time. If it weren't for > them, Linda and I wouldn't have been able to get togther. Sounds a bit skewiff, but that's your business. Temily temilyx@hotmail.com says... >You'd rather stick with the old bomb then? Even if it makes you as >miserable as old boots! Once I get a pair of boots broke in, I wear 'em 'til they fall off my feet. New boots are what makes me miserable. 8-) >temilyp@hotmail.com says... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >one of the first people I told about it. (it wouldn't have done much good to >tell Dad about it, he had long since passed away). I think what was meant, was having decision making power and not just advice giving power. SignatureAzaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved" <((>< <((>< <((>< "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - John 17:17 . I'm somewhat concerned that this entire thread is nothing but the sort of gossip explicitly condemned in Scripture. People are discussing the family matters of others for no decent reason I can see. No object lessons have been offered; no guidance from their situation has been suggested which might be of value to those reading. The thread seems to exist entirely to condemn someone else for how they handled their problems: either Ms Grant, for giving up on a marriage with apparently serious difficulties, or Mr Chapman, for failing to overcome his problems and causing those difficulties. Whichever side the posters have taken, they've all felt free to discuss and condemn what *should be* the private business of other people. Do those condemning Ms Grant and Mr Chapman really believe that it's okay to gossip about others just because those others have sinned? Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips[.]" -- Romans 1:28-29 Nicely put, Darren. Kitten > I'm somewhat concerned that this entire thread is nothing but the sort > of gossip explicitly condemned in Scripture. People are discussing the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, > strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips[.]" -- Romans 1:28-29 > Whichever side the posters have taken, they've all felt free to discuss > and condemn what *should be* the private business of other people. Do > those condemning Ms Grant and Mr Chapman really believe that it's okay > to gossip about others just because those others have sinned? I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter of course. If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's, family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no discussion. And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be what another person would call it! Temily > I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or > whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter > of course. Most of what I read here is when people themselves, often anonymously, bring up their own problems because they are seeking advice. That's not gossip, because (a) the people involved start the discussion themselves, (b) the discussion is intended to achieve some worthwhile end, and (often) (c) their personal details are omitted so they retain their privacy. The discussion of Ms Grant and Mr Chapman fails all three: (a) they are not themselves participating, (b) the discussion serves no worthwhile purpose, and (c) not only isn't there any privacy, but if it wasn't for them being famous the thread probably wouldn't have started at all. The most common adjective with "gossip" is "idle" -- the talk serves no productive purpose. And this thread of discussion has been almost entirely idle gossip. > If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's, > family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no > discussion. There will always be new people coming in to ask for suggestions. And if there's a lull, what's so bad about that? Better no speech at all than gossip. > And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more > acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be > what another person would call it! You have misunderstood my question: I asked "is it okay to gossip if the subjects are sinners?" to make people think about why they are doing it. One significant problem with gossip, in my view, is that it causes you to condemn the behaviour of other people, when our first Earthly duty is to improve ourselves. One participant said he was a "real Christian", and having done so was happy to condemn Ms Grant's sins -- without pausing at all to ask if he was himself committing the sin of gossip in posting his article. All gossip is about sinners, because everybody falls short some of the time. The Bible condemns gossip regardless of the moral worth of its subject. And yet self-described "real Christians" are happy to gossip at length as long as it's about somebody they don't approve of. Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?" -- Jesus > > I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or > > whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy > "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?" -- Jesus >> a great big AMEN to this excellent post !! >> I think in a forum such as this we 'talk' 'gossip' 'discuss' or >> whatever you want to call it other people's business just as a matter [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > no productive purpose. And this thread of discussion has been almost > entirely idle gossip. You miss the point that "they" are trying to make in making posts like this one. This post in not about gossip, it's not about worthwhile discussion and it's not about participation either. The whole point of this and many other posts like it is just to slam Christians and highlight how "sinful" and bad they are. Of course this arrogance and ignorance disregards what Christianity is all about but that doesn't matter to "them". >> If we only discussed ourselves (and no one else - ie spouses, ex's, >> family, people we know etcetc) i'd say after a while there would be no [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > if there's a lull, what's so bad about that? Better no speech at all > than gossip. I agree, better there be a lull than some of the trash that is being posted. >> And what we call a sin is anyone's guess. Some thing are more >> acceptable to some people..so what one person calls a sin may not be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the subjects are sinners?" to make people think about why they are > doing it. The answer is NO, it is never "alright" to gossip. > One significant problem with gossip, in my view, is that it causes you > to condemn the behaviour of other people, when our first Earthly duty is > to improve ourselves. You are correct but unfortunately, there are those who feel that they are superior and thus need no improvement. In their mind they want to improve everyone else rather than themselves. > One participant said he was a "real Christian", and having done so was > happy to condemn Ms Grant's sins -- without pausing at all to ask if he > was himself committing the sin of gossip in posting his article. It was wrong for anyone to "throw stones" at Amy Grant or Gary Chapman. I think there were plenty of unbeliever's who are also guilty as well. > All gossip is about sinners, because everybody falls short some of the > time. The Bible condemns gossip regardless of the moral worth of its > subject. And yet self-described "real Christians" are happy to gossip > at length as long as it's about somebody they don't approve of. Anyone can call themselves anything, it does not make it so.... <snipped> > the eyes of many many real Christians. Interesting. What is your definition of a "real Christian?" Kitten |
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