 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / July 2004ignoring rude behavior
When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was working lots and I had DS most of the time, so he did not do it to his dad. I haven't heard "shut up" for 8 months. Now, DS does this squinty eye, pointing finger deal. I'm also ignoring this behavior. Seems to be working, but the behavior is not completely extinguished because it bothers DH so that he reprimands DS; but he has not disciplined DS, just yells at him. Being yelled at is probably the attention DS is looking for. DS doesn't do it much to me, but he does it lots to DH. DH doesn't like it when I tell him how to parent. I've told him what works for me to no avail. Should I just continue ignoring the behavior and also let DH handle it his own way? Also, what to do when DS does this to grandparents? Should I tell them the method I'm using that has worked in the past so they can equally ignore him and not think I'm ignorant of DS's behavior, or should I resort to discipline when it involves others; which I think will undermine my ignoring technique, since he will know it bothers me. > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither > positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was working [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > which I think will undermine my ignoring technique, since he will know it > bothers me. ---------------- Leave him the hell alone, his gestures aren't your business, or imitate him back at him and giggle, drives them crazy! Steve toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". Well that's a behavior that I don't ignore and have had pretty good success with saying to them that we say be quiet. I don't let the girls say rude things and it has pretty much worked for me. I don't get upset, but just say quietly without emotion that we say be quiet. -- Sue (mom to three girls) > toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Sue (mom to three girls) this is the sort of thing that needs nipping at the start -- establishing norms of kind treatment to each other is really important in the home -- and it is easy to deal with with small children -- and very difficult when they are older language is behavior -- telling Mom to shut up is not very different than slapping Mom -- tone of voice is behavior of course the children have to be treated with the same kind tone and respect so you aren't modeling ugly behavior back to them -- but by insisting on nice tone of voice you don't have to prevent them from airing legitimate grievances -- immediately disciplining for snot mouth -- but also then opening the floor to discuss frustrations generally works > > toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > in the home -- and it is easy to deal with with small children -- and > very difficult when they are older I know everyone is shocked I just ignored it, but ignoring is something that worked very well as demonstrated by the fact that it has not been in his vocabulary at all for many months since I've ignored it. He really wasn't doing it to be rude, as I don't think he knew what rude was, but he was trying to elicit a response and didn't get it, so he is very much over it. As such, I do believe I nipped it in the bud by ignoring it straight from the beginning. Now, if he was much older, I might have another response, since he would clearly be doing it as a sign of disrespect. > language is behavior -- telling Mom to shut up is not very different > than slapping Mom -- tone of voice is behavior Some people on this ng have suggested ignoring foul language and I see this as very much the same thing. It can be extinguished by not giving a response. I can attest to the fact that it works for my toddler. DH's response is to tell DS to stop his behavior, which only escalates his behavior, because he is doing it for attention. What punishments would you suggest? Telling him to stop does not work. If ignoring it worked then neat! I am not patient enough to wait it out.. Though if Bonnie did start telling people to Shut up I would have to talk to DH about it since he says that all the time drives me crazy.. I even tell the cat be quiet;) Tori  SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04 > > > > toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > behavior, because he is doing it for attention. What punishments would you > suggest? Telling him to stop does not work. >> > toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> in the home -- and it is easy to deal with with small children -- and >> very difficult when they are older Actually it isn't easy or more difficult - it is just different. A toddler or very young child without much language and who is home or in a controlled environment a lot of the time, you can do the ignoring VERY effectively. You can do it when they are older too, except that it will be harder for YOU, and you may have better success with other methods. >I know everyone is shocked I just ignored it, but ignoring is something that >worked very well as demonstrated by the fact that it has not been in his [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> language is behavior -- telling Mom to shut up is not very different >> than slapping Mom -- tone of voice is behavior Well at the age that this behavior was occurring, it might be somewhat the same as hitting Mom (or the dog or another child) but slapping Mom at that age wouldn't be the same as slapping Mom if he was 5 or 10 or 15 years old. The hitting and the saying 'shut up' is an attempt to have some interaction and basically trying different things out to see what happens. It's later in the child's life that disrespect and rudeness issues come into it. >Some people on this ng have suggested ignoring foul language and I see this >as very much the same thing. It can be extinguished by not giving a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >behavior, because he is doing it for attention. What punishments would you >suggest? Telling him to stop does not work. I don't suggest punishments. I would suggest that if explaining the problem to your dh doesn't work that you need to do something like give ds (and probably dh too) a time out - which is sort of the same thing as ignoring. If it was me, I'd just get up and walk out of the room whenever dh was interacting with ds in this way. As long as dh doesn't completely lose it when you do that. Basically ignoring dh and ds both. Or maybe just turn my back. [I understand that some students got their professor to lecture with his back to them by giving him positive feedback for turning toward the blackboard and negative feedback (obviously not paying attention) for facing them. So this kind of thing can be very effective, although it will take a bit longer.] grandma Rosalie > Actually it isn't easy or more difficult - it is just different. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it will be harder for YOU, and you may have better success with other > methods. I agree. > Well at the age that this behavior was occurring, it might be somewhat > the same as hitting Mom (or the dog or another child) but slapping Mom [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > what happens. It's later in the child's life that disrespect and > rudeness issues come into it. Agreed again. > I don't suggest punishments. I would suggest that if explaining the > problem to your dh doesn't work that you need to do something like [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > (obviously not paying attention) for facing them. So this kind of > thing can be very effective, although it will take a bit longer.] Thanks. I told DH about making the pointing into a fun game and he tried it this morning, laughing and tickling him for a few seconds. DS got more upset because DH wasn't reacting like he was expecting. DS came to me complaining that DH was tickling him. I told him it was because he thought DS was being funny when he was pointing at him. Amazingly enough, DS decided he wasn't going to point at DH anymore. Let's see how long that lasts. :-) The ignoring is working for me. The tickling may work for DH. I think I can handle 2 parenting techniques without walking into another room (though I will if something really annoying comes up), just didn't know how others handled differences in discipline. >>>toypup <toypuppy@comcast.net> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > behavior, because he is doing it for attention. What punishments would you > suggest? Telling him to stop does not work. if it works I wouldn't argue with it -- but your child will soon be in settings where this sort of thing WILL be reinforced whether you would like it to be or not -- so you may need to be more proactive about tone of voice and language as he gets older the thing I regret most about my own childrearing is that I didn't deal with this in my son when he was very young -- it is nigh onto impossible to deal with when they reach their early teens -- the time to establish norms of civility is well before age 10 > if it works I wouldn't argue with it -- but your child will soon be in > settings where this sort of thing WILL be reinforced whether you would > like it to be or not -- so you may need to be more proactive about tone > of voice and language as he gets older I do believe in nipping these things in the bud. If my methods do not continue to yield results in a timely manner, I will change my approach. That's what parenting is all about. > the thing I regret most about my own childrearing is that I didn't deal > with this in my son when he was very young -- it is nigh onto impossible > to deal with when they reach their early teens -- the time to establish > norms of civility is well before age 10 Maybe he would be impossible to deal with as a teen regardless. Some of them seem to just need to go through a phase. >the thing I regret most about my own childrearing is that I didn't deal >with this in my son when he was very young -- it is nigh onto impossible >to deal with when they reach their early teens -- the time to establish >norms of civility is well before age 10 U.S. schools, at least, seem to very rigid these days, so I guess parents have no alternative but to try to raise children who will be angels in middle school. But plenty of children who rebel in their tweens grow up to be people who act roughly the way their parents, aunts and uncles acted. I think that, overall, the best way to produce polite children is to be a polite parent. Besides, the fact that tweens are often annoying is an important survival trait. In an emergency, tweens can get by pretty well on their own. If your 12-year-old daughter is with you and an Al Qaeda bomb kills you, your spouse and everyone else in the house, then your line ends there. If your 12-year-old daughter has run away to live in another town, maybe she'll survive to pass her rebellious genes on to beautiful grandchildren. > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither > positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was working > lots and I had DS most of the time, so he did not do it to his dad. I > haven't heard "shut up" for 8 months. Wow, no way would I let one of my kids say "shut up". > Now, DS does this squinty eye, pointing finger deal. I'm also ignoring this > behavior. Seems to be working, but the behavior is not completely [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > him what works for me to no avail. Should I just continue ignoring the > behavior and I would not ignore the behaviour. I'd tell him to stop it personally. >also let DH handle it his own way? How would you like your husband telling you how to do things? My husband has his way of handling things the kids do, and I have mine. I let more things slide than he does. Otherwise I'd spend all day saying "no", "stop it" - lol. >Also, what to do when DS > does this to grandparents? Should I tell them the method I'm using that has > worked in the past so they can equally ignore him and not think I'm ignorant > of DS's behavior, or should I resort to discipline when it involves others; > which I think will undermine my ignoring technique, since he will know it > bothers me. Just let them know he's doing it, tell them what you do *and* what your husband does, and let them decide which way to handle it. > > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither > > positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I would not ignore the behaviour. I'd tell him to stop it personally. I know DS and telling him to stop would just escalate the behavior. This is demonstrated by the difficulty DH is having with DS giving him the squinty eye ATM. He always tells DS to stop and it just gets worse. OTOH, DS very rarely does it to me, because I ignore it. Now the squinty eye thing I would probably do back and then do a bought of tickling because 1. it will get old after a while. 2. I dont have the energy to get mad over squinty eyes;) Bonnie was doing this annoying shhh thing for a while when we would talk so we started playing shhh back and forth and she rarely does it anymore unless she is being goofy in the car.. usualy if a song is on the radio;) Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Anna or Xavier due 10/17/04 > > > > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > eye ATM. He always tells DS to stop and it just gets worse. OTOH, DS very > rarely does it to me, because I ignore it. > Now the squinty eye thing I would probably do back and then do a bought of > tickling because 1. it will get old after a while. 2. I dont have the energy [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tori Squinty eyes doesn't bother me. I do it and Lewis actually learned it from me. When I was little I did it and said "see mine eyes" apparently. But "shut up"? Totally different IMO. > Now the squinty eye thing I would probably do back and then do a bought of > tickling because 1. it will get old after a while. 2. I dont have the energy > to get mad over squinty eyes;) Bonnie was doing this annoying shhh thing > for a while when we would talk so we started playing shhh back and forth and > she rarely does it anymore unless she is being goofy in the car.. usualy if > a song is on the radio;) I tried that once in the beginning and it turned out to be fun. I was afraid it would become too fun, but that's something to think about and it may work equally well. I suppose he would probably stop doing it when he's frustrated because it would be associated with being fun and friendly instead of confrontational. This is probably more in line with my parenting style. >>>When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither >>>positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > eye ATM. He always tells DS to stop and it just gets worse. OTOH, DS very > rarely does it to me, because I ignore it. 'telling' is never adequate to control behavior in small kids -- you have to tell once so they understand the behavior you want stopped, then you need to follow up consistently with some sort of consequence for the bad behavior. and giving the squinty eye is as obnoxious a behavior as yelling shut up or swearing or just being snotty when talking to Mom. as I said before -- if ignoring works at home -- great -- but when it doesn't, you have to follow through. And Mom and Dad really need to decide what is acceptable and then be consistent with each other. >and giving the squinty eye is as obnoxious a behavior as >yelling shut up or swearing or just being snotty when talking to Mom. What is "giving the squinty eye" anyway? Either my kids don't do it (they do lots of other snotty things though, I'm afraid!), or I don't recognize it under that description. --Helen >I know DS and telling him to stop would just escalate the behavior. This is >demonstrated by the difficulty DH is having with DS giving him the squinty >eye ATM. He always tells DS to stop and it just gets worse. OTOH, DS very >rarely does it to me, because I ignore it. It sounds as if, in some areas, DH doesn't relate that well to either you or your son. Your son is reacting to the relationship problem by pushing DH's buttons. Maybe, then, the best thing, if the relationship problems are fairly limited, is to let your son and DH work things out for themselves. If DH has serious people problems, then maybe you need to get counseling, with or without DH, to figure out how to protect your son from DH's people problems. SignatureAl Bell's Bell Jar - http://users.vnet.net/allbell/belljar.html * "I'm just crazy about it." - Sylvia Plath Featuring: "Terror at 30 Rock (or: The Peacock Had Fangs)" allbell@vnet.net *NOTE CHANGE IN ADDRESS > >I know DS and telling him to stop would just escalate the behavior. This is > >demonstrated by the difficulty DH is having with DS giving him the squinty [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > or without DH, to figure out how to protect your son from DH's people > problems. DH has absolutely no people problems. He relates very well to people, is well liked by most everyone. He works in a position that is evaluated by survey and is one of the highest ranked by the patrons. He is also popular among colleagues. This is the only issue he is working on with DS and it's rather minor in the scheme of things, though it needs to be worked out now rather than later. That hardly qualifies him as having serious people problems worth protecting DS over. >DH has absolutely no people problems. He relates very well to people, is >well liked by most everyone. It sounds as if, in a lot of ways, your DH is not just a good father but a heroic father. But, in this particular case, it sounds as if your son is normal and DH has the problem. If your DH yelled at your son once or twice for making rude faces, well, everyone's human. And, once in awhile, maybe yelling about that sort of thing works. If your DH said, reasonably calmly, something like, "That's annoying," "That's rude," "That makes me angry," or, "It looks as if you're really angry at me," that would be cool. If your DH is actually yelling at your son regularly about preschool silliness, then that seems not great. Your DH is a grownup who puts your son into bed every night and probably does all sorts of other necessary stuff that bugs your son. If your son wants to rebel once in awhile by making faces at your husband, well, why shouldn't he? It seems as if that's a fairly peaceful way to express anger. > >DH has absolutely no people problems. He relates very well to people, is > >well liked by most everyone. > > It sounds as if, in a lot of ways, your DH is not just a good father but > a heroic father. He really truly is. But, in this particular case, it sounds as if your son > is normal and DH has the problem. By the responses I've gotten WRT ignoring DS's behavior, I feel the majority of folks here would agree with how he is handling the situation. I am feeling a bit defensive about my methods, but I feel ignoring works, at least for now. If DS doesn't stop doing it to me by the end of the month, I will change tactics. As it is, he doesn't do it much to me. He does it often to DH and he sometimes forget I don't respond and tries it on me. If DH could get his end under control, the behavior will be extinguished. > If your DH yelled at your son once or twice for making rude faces, well, > everyone's human. And, once in awhile, maybe yelling about that sort of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If your DH is actually yelling at your son regularly about > preschool silliness, then that seems not great. He doesn't do that. > Your DH is a grownup who puts your son into bed every night and > probably does all sorts of other necessary stuff that bugs your son. If > your son wants to rebel once in awhile by making faces at your husband, > well, why shouldn't he? It seems as if that's a fairly peaceful way to > express anger. I guess, except most people think it's rude, including DH and I. > Should I just continue ignoring the behavior and also let DH handle > it his own way? That is what I would do. Also, what to do when DS does this to grandparents? > Should I tell them the method I'm using that has worked in the past > so they can equally ignore him and not think I'm ignorant of DS's > behavior That is exactly what I would do. If they don't ignore it then I'd let them handle it however they want as long as it wan't abusive. -- Nikki Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3) >> Should I just continue ignoring the behavior and also let DH handle >> it his own way? > > That is what I would do. Well, you've told your husband already. He chooses not to take your advice. He has that right. Now you need to ask yourself: are you just trying to be helpful to your husband, or does it somehow bother you, or cost you, or hurt you that he does it the way he does? If you're just trying to be helpful: let it slide. Your husband will choose his way. If it hurts you or something: then you need to explain to your husband how it harms you and why you need him to change. And how you feel about it. At a time when he's relaxed and open to listening. Also, listen to his point of view too. Then possibly he may be convinced. Repeating yourself won't help. Ignoring works sometimes. A mistake I made as a parent was latching onto a few techniques or principles and over-applying them. Ignoring may not work in another situation: with a different child, when the child is older, when other people are also involved and don't ignore it, or when the child's purpose is not just to get attention. I see nothing wrong with squinting. I feel that people have a right to their facial expressions. (Except very aggressive ones.) Whether gentle correction works depends a lot on the relationship between parent and child: how much the child enjoys teasing or bothering the parent. This also varies depending on the child's mood, what's happened lately (e.g. being told "no" a lot) etc. By gentle correction I mean saying things like "we don't point at people" or "I feel bothered when you squint like that". If the child's purpose was to bother the parent, these statements are encouraging to the child. Often they're helpful, though. I hope you won't try to apply the ignoring technique to all misbehaviours, and especially that you won't try to get everybody else to ignore all misbehaviours, too. I think that will just lead to a child who either doesn't know the rules of polite society, or believes he is above those rules. How about using virtue words such as "consideration, courtesy, patience" etc. when praising or gently correcting the child. I find these sorts of words make a big difference: the child perceives it as more of a learning experience and less of just someone trying to control him/her. -- Cathy > Well, you've told your husband already. He chooses not to > take your advice. He has that right. Now you need to ask > yourself: are you just trying to be helpful to your husband, > or does it somehow bother you, or cost you, or hurt you that > he does it the way he does? It doesn't bother me. I just wonder if it makes the behavior more difficult to extinguish from my side, hence my question to the group. It doesn't hurt me, either. > Ignoring works sometimes. A mistake I made as a parent was > latching onto a few techniques or principles and over-applying > them. Ignoring may not work in another situation: with a > different child, when the child is older, when other people > are also involved and don't ignore it, or when the child's > purpose is not just to get attention. My parenting style is rather flexible. Therefore, I don't think I'll get into that rut. If something doesn't work within a reasonable amount of time, I must conclude it doesn't work and move on. > I hope you won't try to apply the ignoring technique to all > misbehaviours, and especially that you won't try to get > everybody else to ignore all misbehaviours, too. I think > that will just lead to a child who either doesn't know the > rules of polite society, or believes he is above those > rules. I don't consider ignoring misbehavior to be ignoring misbehavior, IYKWIM. It has a purpose. There is logic behind it. If it does not work, I move on. Yes, I do use more active corrections for other behaviors. I ignore "shut up" because he is doing it to get a rise out of me, not because he is intentionally being disrespectful. It doesn't get any response, so he stops. If it didn't stop, I would have to rethink my strategy. > How about using virtue words such as "consideration, > courtesy, patience" etc. when praising or gently correcting > the child. I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, but it will be a few years. It's taken me months to teach him "please," though I use it all the time and he can parrot it. Asking him "what's the magic word?" only gets the answer "magic word" after much thought. He finally got it at Grandpa's, but it took forever. toypup wrote in <_66Fc.11966$Oq2.3518@attbi_s52>: > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's > not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, > but it will be a few years. It's taken me months to teach him "please," > though I use it all the time and he can parrot it. Asking him "what's the > magic word?" only gets the answer "magic word" after much thought. He > finally got it at Grandpa's, but it took forever. We had that: I could not get the oldest to say please at all. He finally got it during a week when he saw his older cousins every day: he was about 21 months. Obviously hearing Mummy and Daddy say it was just another wierd things grown-ups do, but when a 4yo said it, it was a child thing. SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's > not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, > but it will be a few years. It's taken me months to teach him "please," > though I use it all the time and he can parrot it. Asking him "what's the > magic word?" only gets the answer "magic word" after much thought. He > finally got it at Grandpa's, but it took forever. I don't ask my kids "what's the magic word?" anymore cos their answer once was "abracadabra" - lol. I say "what do you say?" and they say "please". And they don't get what they want till they say it. > > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's > > not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I say "what do you say?" and they say "please". And they don't get what > they want till they say it. Depending upon how old the child is, I had more luck with saying "Say please." Or, when they were younger, I'd say it for them. They all caught on well, and are good with those particular parts of manners. meh SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > > > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's > > > not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Depending upon how old the child is, I had more luck with saying "Say > please." That worked for DS, but he was only parroting. I wanted him to actually learn it. He had no idea what he was saying when he parroted. I suppose that's how learning starts, but I wanted him to figure it out and use it regularly or when reminded. It took many months before I could just say "milk <pause>" and he would say "please." Before that, there was dead air silence, frustration and a puzzled look. > > > > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. > He's [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > "milk <pause>" and he would say "please." Before that, there was dead air > silence, frustration and a puzzled look. I think that's kind of my point: at some point, they get it, and until then waiting for them to say please, or giving them hints but not actually telling them what you want, is just frustrating for the kids. My kids definately seemed to get it -- at probably about the same age -- but without the frustration or "game" of me waiting for something and them not quite knowing what it was I was waiting for. meh SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care >> Depending upon how old the child is, I had more luck with saying "Say >> please." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >"milk <pause>" and he would say "please." Before that, there was dead air >silence, frustration and a puzzled look. It begins with parroting what you say to them. If you say please every time you ask them for something they do eventually *get* it. Of course it takes time. I think my dgd thought that *more please* was all one word for quite a while, but now that she is almost 2, she understands the idea though she doesn't always say the *please.* -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits Someone wrote: >> I don't ask my kids "what's the magic word?" anymore cos their answer once >> was "abracadabra" - lol. >> >> I say "what do you say?" and they say "please". And they don't get what >> they want till they say it. I agree with you. I think "what do you say?" is usually more respectful. "What's the magic word?" can be humorous, but once it's been said so many times it's no longer funny, I think a more low-key question is better. (Maybe in some families it's an in-joke and keeps on being funny -- then it's fine to keep using it.) -- Cathy > > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's > > not very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I say "what do you say?" and they say "please". And they don't get what > they want till they say it. That method is frustrating to the poor child who is trying so hard to say the correct word but doesn't know what it is. > That method is frustrating to the poor child who is trying so hard to say > the correct word but doesn't know what it is. No it's not, they know what they're supposed to say, they just forget to say it. > > That method is frustrating to the poor child who is trying so hard to say > > the correct word but doesn't know what it is. > > No it's not, they know what they're supposed to say, they just forget to say > it. Maybe your children. DS truly wanted to say whatever it was. He just couldn't figure it out. > > That method is frustrating to the poor child who is trying so hard to say > > the correct word but doesn't know what it is. > > No it's not, they know what they're supposed to say, they just forget to say > it. According to toypup, up to a certain point the child just gave back "dead air, silence, frustration and a puzzled look". That was my experience watching kids who are below a certain age and being asked to "say the magic word" or asked "what do you say?" I figure if you ask that, and they give back confusion and dead air, they really HAVEN'T learned it yet -- and the child will be better supported in that learning by telling them what to say instead of waiting for them to remember. meh SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care >> I say "what do you say?" and they say "please". And they don't get what >> they want till they say it. > > That method is frustrating to the poor child who is trying so hard to say > the correct word but doesn't know what it is. Not if it's done right. If the child hesitates and seems to be thinking, I wait a short time (a second? more if the child doesn't seem to mind trying to think of the answer and has a chance of getting it) and then tell them the answer. I believe this is a good way to get them to learn. When someone is trying to think of the answer and someone tells them, they're much more likely to remember it than if you just tell them when they're not particularly interested. The length of the wait is calculated to reduce frustration. It can be very short. -- Cathy It's taken me months to teach him "please," though I > use it all the time and he can parrot it. Asking him "what's the magic > word?" only gets the answer "magic word" after much thought. He finally got > it at Grandpa's, but it took forever. When a child comes up to me and says "I want a..." I say I want a million dollars and a trip to Bermuda. I dont understand I want, can you please ask nicely? They *usualy* catch on and ask with a please. Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier due 10/17/04 >When a child comes up to me and says "I want a..." I say I want a million >dollars and a trip to Bermuda. I dont understand I want, can you please ask >nicely? They *usualy* catch on and ask with a please. On the one hand, in the real world, maybe this approach is a necessary evil and works great for many people. On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry at Jane or asked, "What's the magic word?", I'd think John Smith was being ruder than Jane Doe. I think a better approach is to play videos that feature polite children (maybe get children hooked on Will Robinson from the old Lost in Space??), play games that involve manners (maybe a souped up version of Mother May I) and just tell your children, when they're old enough to understand, why manners are important. > On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite > request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry > at Jane or asked, "What's the magic word?", I'd think John Smith was being > ruder than Jane Doe. I agree. What's a polite way for an adult to remind another to say please? Is there a polite way? How about: "Um -- are you making a request?" "I don't understand -- are you asking me to do something?" "You know, it really makes a difference to me to hear the word 'please'". "You seem to be in a hurry. I know you'd normally say 'please'". "You'd like me to do this for you?" Would any of these work? If there is a polite way, the same politeness can be extended to children as soon as they're old enough to understand what's going on. No point trying to be subtle with a kid who's just starting to learn the language. -- Cathy >>On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite >>request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I agree. What's a polite way for an adult to remind another > to say please? Is there a polite way? There is no polite way for an adult to correct another adult's manners. One might make exceptions in some situations for very close relatives/friends (spouses, parents, etc.) who are so close that you can discuss the *really* delicate issues with them. That's not to say you can't *react* to people's poor manners. Certainly, unmannerly people often don't endear themselves to others, and that's going to have repercussions. You just can't presume to instruct another adult in how to behave. Best wishes, Ericka > There is no polite way for an adult to correct another > adult's manners. One might make exceptions in some situations [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - even if you *know* they have heard and understood you. It's just an automatic thing with them. Drives me INSANE. I now "what" them back in self defense. ME: "Where is the stapler?" THEM: "What?" ME: "What?" THEM: "What?!" ME: "What!!" THEM:"WHAT?!?" ME: "Please don't 'what' me. It drives me nuts. I asked, 'Where is the stapler?'." THEM: " What? Oh yeah, the stapler ..." Even when I've had this conversation with a given 'whatter' several times, and they are aware that they do it, they just can't seem to stop themselves. It's like, those kids that, like, say 'like' all the, like, time. They just can't, like, help themselves. eggs. > The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. > Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - > even if you *know* they have heard and understood > you. It's just an automatic thing with them. Drives me > INSANE. I now "what" them back in self defense. I tend to do this. The reason is, although I have *heard* the question, it does not necessarily mean that I *understood* it. If I have not been previously engaged in conversation and someone just comes up and asks me something totally unrelated to what I have been thinking about, it just takes me more time than probably most people for the question to "sink in" -- more time than is customarily expected for a conversational response. I just can't 'switch gears' instantly. So, to fill the time where the person is looking for some acknowledgment that I have heard them and my being able to up with an answer to the question, I often say, "what". Is there another word that could serve that purpose and wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it does annoy my DH too. SignatureCheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 10 months >>The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. >>Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it > does annoy my DH too. In my experience, engaging eye contact is by far the best way to let that person know you have heard them. Mary Ann >>>The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. >>>Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - >>>even if you *know* they have heard and understood >>>you. It's just an automatic thing with them. Drives me >>>INSANE. I now "what" them back in self defense. My dh does this all the time. But I'm not sure that he has heard and understands me. He's a little deaf, and if he is thinking about something else, he doesn't hear. It DOES drive me crazy. But sometimes I have to do the same thing because I'm a little deaf too, and I can't always understand the words that someone is saying even though I can hear them. >> I tend to do this. The reason is, although I have *heard* the question, >> it does not necessarily mean that I *understood* it. If I have not been [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it >> does annoy my DH too. Say "Well..", or "um".... and look as though you are thinking. >In my experience, engaging eye contact is by far the best way to let >that person know you have heard them. Would not work for us. One of the reasons that we can't hear is that one of us is not looking at the other one - sometimes because we are in another area. One of the things I find myself doing is prefacing a new start of a conversation by saying "OK?" This leads dh to say "What does that mean?", but at least I know he's heard and is listening to me. grandma Rosalie >> The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. >> Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it >does annoy my DH too. I don't tend to say "what" and haven't seemed to have irritated anyone (at least now who has let on...), but I do know what you mean. I tend to concentrate quite a lot on what I'm doing at any given time, and to switch gears is hard. I even get a headache sometimes when I'm adsorbed in some activity requiring concentration, and someone walks up for a light chat. I say "come again?" apologetically when I haven't gotten what a person wants to say. But, in all fairness, folks - that's what names are for. To address people. As in "Hi, Karen......have you been able to check that..(fill in the space)." Consider the possibility that the "what"-ers are having to live with "walk-up-and-yammer"-ers or even the "I-am-present-you-should-automatically-pay-attention"-ers. Banty > I don't tend to say "what" and haven't seemed to have irritated anyone (at least > now who has let on...), but I do know what you mean. I tend to concentrate [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Banty It's not the occassional, situation appropriate "what's" that bother me - it's the serial "what"-er's who use it all day long. When we were first out of college, we used to share house with a guy who "what"-ed so gratuitously that everyone would just say "what!" to him when they wanted his attention, instead of "John", his actual name. He knew he had a problem with it, but just couldn't help himself. Poor guy! eggs > in "Hi, Karen......have you been able to check that..(fill in the space)." > Consider the possibility that the "what"-ers are having to live with > "walk-up-and-yammer"-ers or even the > "I-am-present-you-should-automatically-pay-attention"-ers. Well said. How about approaching a known "whatter" with "Excuse me -- I would like to ask you something." and then waiting for a response and eye contact. Oops. I suppose they'll just take that as another invitation to say "What?" -- Cathy > > in "Hi, Karen......have you been able to check that..(fill in the space)." > > Consider the possibility that the "what"-ers are having to live with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Cathy As a "what"-er, yes, I'd say it probably would! I don't just say "what?" -- I usually say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry; what was that?" or even "Um . . . were you talking to me?" But if I'm really focussed on something I'm doing, I honestly don't HEAR what someone says to me. Even if they say my name first, it may take me a bit to shift my processing to tend to what they are saying. Sometimes, what they said somehow catches up -- THEN I am liable to give the response that drives people nuts, as in, "What? -- oh, um, it's in the bedroom." Since I frequently work at home, when I'm well focussed on my work I try to avoid interruptions; but I live with lots of other people, who may be talking to each other, so it isn't all that uncommon for someone to talk to me for several sentences before I realize they are talking to ME and stop tuning them out -- then I have to make them repeat everything. Sometimes my kids have used this to their advantage. "But I DID tell you I was going out!" We had to establish a rule that unless I made eye contact and SAID something, I didn't hear it, and they couldn't claim to have told me. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > them and my being able to up with an answer to the question, I often > say, "what". Is there another word that could serve that purpose and > wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it > does annoy my DH too. I think what people are looking for is a full sentence. I say, "I'm sorry, what did you say?" > > them and my being able to up with an answer to the question, I often > > say, "what". Is there another word that could serve that purpose and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think what people are looking for is a full sentence. I say, "I'm sorry, > what did you say?" What? :-) I'll try that. Thanks. I'll also suggest to people this happens with frequently that they use my name to get my full attention prior to making their statement/request in the first place so they won't have to repeat themselves at all. SignatureCheryl S. Mom to Julie, 3, and Jaden, 10 months > I'll try that. Thanks. I'll also suggest to people this happens with > frequently that they use my name to get my full attention prior to > making their statement/request in the first place so they won't have to > repeat themselves at all. From now on (except for the post where I just quoted Banty) I'm going to try to remember to do this in a way that implies that it's my responsibility. Not "You should start by using my name or something ..." but "I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said. I have trouble hearing if someone starts talking to me when there was silence up to then. You could try starting by getting my attention using my name or something, if it bothers you." -- Cathy >I just can't 'switch gears' instantly. So, to fill the time > where the person is looking for some acknowledgment that I have heard > them and my being able to up with an answer to the question, I often > say, "what". Is there another word that could serve that purpose and > wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it > does annoy my DH too. How about "excuse me?", or "hmmm...", or "just a second!", or "I beg your pardon?", or even, "Sorry, what did you say?". There are many alternatives ... including the one where your husband and I just get over it, I guess! eggs. >> The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. >> Ask them any question, and they just say "what?" - [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that could serve that purpose and wouldn't drive you as nuts? That > would be good to know since I know it does annoy my DH too. Hunter is only 5yo old be he 'whats' constantly. It is sooo frustrating. It seems to be a bit of a processing lag with him as well. I would prefer and 'um' and a pause :-) -- Nikki Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3) > I tend to do this. The reason is, although I have *heard* the question, > it does not necessarily mean that I *understood* it. If I have not been [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > wouldn't drive you as nuts? That would be good to know since I know it > does annoy my DH too. I tend to do this, too. If I'm busy thinking about something else when someone starts to talk, I tend to miss at least the first half of the first sentence. This reminds me of a conversation I had with my French teacher back in grade 10: me: What are you supposed to say in French if you didn't hear what the person said? Do you say "quoi"? teacher: Pardon? [with French pronunciation] me: I said, what are you supposed to say if ... teacher: Pardon? me: [blush] It turned out that the French word "pardon" was more polite or appropriate than "quoi" which is the same as "what?". You can do the same in English: instead of "what?" you can say "pardon?" or "pardon me?" You can go a step further. I'm finding that people don't react well to me saying "Pardon?" in French -- they tend to assume I don't know any French and switch to English. My French teacher says it's better not to say "Pardon?" but instead to say either: "Pourriez-vous repeter la question s'il vous plai^t?" or "Pourriez-vous reformuler la question s'il vous plai^t?" These mean two different things. The first means I didn't hear the question and would like it repeated. The second means I heard the question but didn't understand it and would like it repeated using different words. It's polite to give a bit of information like that. If you just say "what?" it could mean many things: it could mean you disagree with the person. It could mean you're appalled that they would presume to interrupt you at a time like this. ("What?!!") It could mean you're disturbed to hear that the stapler is missing. It could mean you didn't hear the question and would like it repeated. It could mean you heard it wrong (sounded like they said "where is this tapler?"), so repeating the same words probably won't help. If you need time to think, I think it's more polite to say "Just a minute ...". As in: "Just a minute ... oh, the stapler. You want to know where the stapler is? um -- I last saw it in the livingroom." or "Just a minute ... OK, now what was it you wanted to ask me?" This tells the person to wait and then to repeat it. The word "what" is still there but it's clear it doesn't mean you're shocked or your disagree. If you want the person to repeat it, I think it's more polite to say "Could you repeat that please?" or "I'm sorry -- could you repeat that please?" If you just missed part of what they said, it works better emotinoally -- even if it takes more time -- to let them know which part. "Could you repeat that last word?" or "You're looking for the what?" or "what did you say about the stapler?" I think it's a good idea to tell someone close to you that you need time to switch your attention (as I do) and that you'll miss the first part if they suddenly start talking to you. You can suggest that the person always being with something like "Can I ask you a question?" or "Would you like to hear a joke?" or "Excuse me -- " or your name and then waiting for you to say "yes?" etc.; something with no content except to get your attention. I now feel however that it's not fair to expect the other person to always remember to do that. I think it's good to suggest that they do that, and explain that it takes you time to switch, but then if they do just start talking, to say something like "excuse me -- I missed the first part of what you said", with a smile, as if you're taking full responsibility. The fact that you had asked them to start with a lead-in should just lead to them forgiving you for missing that first part. (But not necessarily for saying "What?!") I also think it's OK to say "I can give you my full attention in 10 seconds" or 2 minutes or 10 minutes or after dinner ... but not after too long a time. And then of course you have to remember to approach them and give them your full attention. -- Cathy That's what DS was doing for a while, it was really annoying. Then I "what" him back and he's doing it less now, when he realized how frustrating it is to repeat himself. I've also caught him with reverse psychology telling me verbatim what I just said. Me: I'm going to go upstairs now. DS: what? Me: What? DS: what did you say? Me: What? Did I say something? DS: yes. you did, you said you were going upstairs now. Me: What? What is my biggest peeve is when people do this in groups, you're both making eye contact, but the other person wants you to keep repeating yourself so you look like an idiot, and them still saying "what?!" right in the middle of your repeating... ?! > The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. Ask them any > question, and they just say "what?" - even if you *know* they have heard > and understood you. It's just an automatic thing with them. Drives me > INSANE. I now "what" them back in self defense. > The ones that drives me nuts are the "what?" people. Ask them any > question, and they just say "what?" - even if you *know* they have heard [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > eggs. One thing about that is I am a whatter.. not all of the time but if you do not make sure I have your attention before you speak to me I lose part of the question or hear something else sometimes and it does not make any sense. Then I would say What and you would assume i was being rude. Sometimes it helps to say my name and make sure I am looking at you BEFORE you ask for something including a stapler. Try this with the coworker that annoys you with the whats. Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier due 10/17/04 > One thing about that is I am a whatter.. not all of the time but if you do > not make sure I have your attention before you speak to me I lose part of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you ask for something including a stapler. Try this with the coworker that > annoys you with the whats. I don't have a co-worker that annoys me with the 'whats', that was just a generic example. I'm a stay at home mom. I'm talking about people you are in the middle of a conversation with, and they say "what" to you every second sentence, as a mental placeholder, or maybe when you ask a question and you know they hear you, but they say "what" anyway. e.g.: ME: "Hey, Bob? Do you know where the umbrella is?" Bob: "What? Oh, it's near the door." Don't get me wrong, I use 'what' too. It's a fine and dandy word! I've got nothing against it. It is, however, the "what" *abusers* that anoy me. eggs. > I don't have a co-worker that annoys me with the 'whats', that was just > a generic example. I'm a stay at home mom. I'm talking about people [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ME: "Hey, Bob? Do you know where the umbrella is?" > Bob: "What? Oh, it's near the door." ah ok... sometimes I am slow;) Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier due 10/17/04 I'm talking about > people you are in the middle of a conversation with, and they say > "what" to you every second sentence, as a mental placeholder, or > maybe when you ask a question and you know they hear you, but they > say "what" anyway. My son does that excessively. I had his hearing tested even. I think it is a processing dilemma some of the time and he says 'what' to sort of hold his place in the conversation until he can work through the information he just got. An adult doing that is one thing but a 5yo half the time looses his own train of thought during that little interval and really does need it said again, or said in a simpler way or something. It can be exhausting for me and even him at times. -- Nikki Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3) > An adult doing that is one thing but a 5yo half the time looses his own > train of thought during that little interval and really does need it said > again, or said in a simpler way or something. It can be exhausting for me > and even him at times. You can try to teach him to say "repeat please?" or something instead of "what?". When he says "what?", instead of repeating, you can say "Would you like me to repeat that?" or "Say could you repeat that please." -- Cathy >> An adult doing that is one thing but a 5yo half the time looses his >> own train of thought during that little interval and really does [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you can say "Would you like me to repeat that?" or "Say could you > repeat that please." Actually it is the conversation as a whole that frustrates me, not the rather abrupt 'what'. As long as it takes him to spit things out sometimes anything longer then one word would likely send me straight over the edge, lol. I can see how a more polite word/phrase would be a positive for adults or for Hunter as he gets older. -- Nikki Mama to Hunter (5) and Luke (3) > I'm talking about people > you are in the middle of a conversation with, and they say "what" to you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > eggs. I don't think the umbrella example is an abuse of the word "what" - unless you think people should say "pardon?" or something instead when they don't hear. I think in the umbrella example, what happened is that Bob heard some sounds but didn't understand them. He then did what he usually does when he doesn't understand: he said "what?". That seems reasonably appropriate to me. Some part of his mind then realized what the sounds must have meant, and he answered. The length of time it takes to decode and understand a sentence is unpredictable. If all you have is some sounds you haven't been able to make sense of yet, then perhaps "what?" is appropriate. It could take all day before you suddenly realize "Oh, she meant "umbrella", not "um -- Brella"!" It could take an infinite length of time. The trouble with using a more polite phrase at a time like that is that part of your mind is still busy trying to decode the sentence. If you say "excuse me, could you be quiet a minute while I try to figure out what you just said?" or "excuse me, could you repeat that please?" then your mind becomes full of the sentence beginning "excuse me?" and you no longer have a hope of figuring out that other one. I figure I have a short-term memory for an apparently meaningless string of sounds or words that's about 6 to 8 words long or so. It's like a tape recorder. If I get a chance, I can replay in my mind what the person just said, and often understand it -- though I didn't understand it when they first said it because I was busy thinking about something else. However, to do this I need (1) the other person to stop talking to give me a chance, and (2) not to be composing sentences myself. Otherwise that short-term memory gets wiped out. It can't go into longer-term memory until I've either made sense of it, or repeated it a number of times. Within a couple of seconds it's gone. Perhaps one of the major functions of the word "what?" is to get the other person to be quiet for a bit so one can think. This suggests another possible approach to a "whatter": speak slowly, don't overload them with information, and maybe get them curious before giving them information. Maybe like this: "There's something I'm looking for -- I'm looking for a stapler." This (if it works) gets the person curious about what you're looking for before you say the word "stapler." That way, when you say it, they're ready and listening for it. They make room for it in their mind before it comes. You can put in short pauses, to give the person time to think, and try to carefully time them so they aren't taken as invitations to the other person to speak (or they'll say "what?"!) -- Cathy > The length of time it takes to decode and understand > a sentence is unpredictable. If all you have is some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "umbrella", not "um -- Brella"!" It could take > an infinite length of time. When my dh says something to me and I dont understand what he said and I give the "huh" or "what" I like to tell him what I thought he said. Sometimes it is pretty far off from what he said. I have also told him not to talk to me when we are walking and he is in front of me. He tends to mumble though and unless I am focasing on him I have no idea what he is talking about. Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier due 10/17/04 > There is no polite way for an adult to correct another > adult's manners. ... > You just can't presume to instruct another adult in how > to behave. I disagree. For example, a correction of manners can be expressed in the form of a request, implying that it's a specific requirement of the person making the request rather than a failing of the other person. -- Cathy >> There is no polite way for an adult to correct another >>adult's manners. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > specific requirement of the person making the request rather > than a failing of the other person. That's different. That's not giving someone a manners lesson (which you have no business doing). That's making a request. Now, you can cross the line, in that you can simply rephrase a manners lesson as a request (we routinely do that when instructing children in manners, of course). If you do that, it's just as rude. For instance, even if it bugs you that a co-worker holds her fork like a weapon, saying, "Would you please hold your fork properly so that I can enjoy my dinner?" is still beyond the pale. No matter how it's phrased as a request, the bottom line is still that you're playing mommy and telling someone to mind their manners. Telling your spouse that you feel taken for granted and ordered about when he doesn't say "please" would be much more valid. Best wishes, Ericka > > On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite > > request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Would any of these work? Yikes; they're all much ruder than the original adult who, we were told, made the request politely but without specifically saying "please." I don't think there is a "magic word." If someone asks me for something with a questioning tone and nice language, such as, "Would you mind passing me that napkin?" I consider that polite, even more so than a statement, if deadpanned, like "Please pass the napkin." > If there is a polite way, the same politeness can be extended > to children as soon as they're old enough to understand what's > going on. No point trying to be subtle with a kid who's just > starting to learn the language. >> > On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite >> > request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > you mind passing me that napkin?" I consider that polite, even more so > than a statement, if deadpanned, like "Please pass the napkin." I agree with this. However, there are also times when someone makes a request that sounds as if they're taking the other person for granted. "Let me use your lawn mower for a week." or whatever. Eventually you have to stop just saying "but of course" or whatever the polite response is. -- Cathy >> On the other hand, if Jane Doe, an adult, made a reasonable, polite >> request to John Smith and forgot to say please, and John Smith got angry >> at Jane or asked, "What's the magic word?", I'd think John Smith was being >> ruder than Jane Doe. >I agree. What's a polite way for an adult to remind another >to say please? Is there a polite way? To clarify: I understand that the parent-child relationship is different from a normal adult-adult relationship. If you're rushing to keep a baby out of the street, you do what you can to protect the baby. You don't start by consulting Miss Manners. If your child is a lot ruder than other children his/her age, then you have to do something about that, just as you would have to do something if your child were unusually clumsy or unusually slow to learn to talk. So, what I'm saying applies mainly to what I'd do about children who are behaving roughly the same way their peers are behaving and getting along reasonably well with other children their age. My guess is that, if I saw most of the folks who've posted in this thread with their children in real life, I'd think they were doing a good job of teaching manners. Occasionally asking, "What's the magic word?" is not a capital offense. I'm just saying that it bothers me when adults expect toddlers to meet unreasonably advanced behavior standards, or when adults are unreasonably rude or condescending when they're trying to teach children manners. >"You seem to be in a hurry. I know you'd normally say 'please'". I think this is the best of the responses you suggested because it implies that the child is a great, polite child who just forgot to say please. My personal preference would be not to say anything about "please" at all to a child who makes an effort to say "please," even if s/he often forgets. A child who sometimes says "please" is already on the right track. If a child seemed not to understand the point of saying please, I'd say, "Saying please makes you sound nicer." If a child were really angry about the idea of saying please, I wouldn't yell at the child or nag the child because of that. I'd just explain that the child might have to adopt conventional manners at some point or accept the consequences. > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's not > very good verbally. Sure, if I use them, he'd eventually learn them, but it > will be a few years. It's taken me months to teach him "please," though I > use it all the time and he can parrot it. Asking him "what's the magic > word?" only gets the answer "magic word" after much thought. He finally got > it at Grandpa's, but it took forever. If the child isn't very good verbally, he just may not know what you mean when you say "What's the magic word?". Too much jargon/oblique for a very young child. When DD was 2 or 3 (even 4), if she didn't say "Please" when she requested something, I would tell her that she needed to say "Please" because she needed to be polite. Asking her "What's the magic word?" would just resulted in a bewildered look of "NOW what is she saying?". DH and I also made sure we used please, thank you and you're welcome whenever we made requests of each other. Jeanne My inlaws actualy pick on me because I say "yes please" and "thank you" and "no thank you" even when it has to do with a card game. I made a concious effort to do this when I was pregnant with Bonnie... DH does not always remember his pleases and thank you's but at least on of us is a good influence;) Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier due 10/17/04 > > > I could use them, but they would have no effect, at least not now. He's [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jeanne > When I was on bedrest, DS started saying "shut up". I gave it neither > positive nor negative attention and he stopped. At the time, DH was working [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > which I think will undermine my ignoring technique, since he will know it > bothers me. I "ignore" #1 by saying so. I'd say "I can't hear those words, I can only hear please be quiet". Then ignoring it if repeated. that way she knows what she can say for the same effect, but I don't have to react. #1's saying "what?" at the moment if she hasn't heard, which I find irritating, and I'm using this, She'll usually then repeat my phrase "pardon", or "I'm sorry I didn't hear you". If she's trying to be irritating then she'll repeat "what?" loudly, so I'll ignore it and she then doesn't get to hear what I've said (which irrritates her). I'd be consistant even if the grandparents disagree. Debbie I can't remember a time when my little boy (2 1/2) could not use his manners. Atleast once he could talk he has used "please" and "thankyou" and even "you're welcome". When he was little and could not talk we used the words for him, we would say "here you go now you say thankyou" and we did not freak out or become dissappointed if he didn't say it, we just had to be patient. And he did catch on. Every once in a while I will catch him not saying it on his own, but I don't act surprised or with hold anything cause that only makes him madder and I have gotten to where I do not want anymore negativity than I have to have, I still give him what he needs only I say "you're welcome" and often times gently say "thankyou" where he would need to and he will often just pick up after that. Kids just need to be reminded sometimes, there is so much going on in their lives that they need a little help and should not be treated like they are "BAD". I hate the terms like "you're being a bad boy" or "you're being naughty" I do not like to use these with my kids as I remember them being used on me and I could never discern when I was being bad or when I was being good, so all the time I thought I was bad. I didn't have much positive reinforcement needless to say, very neglectful parents. Anywho, I think that the ignoring technique has worked for me, even though I did not know I was using it, in keeping negative activity from occuring where in my case as well my husband reacts to the activity, where I would prefer to not provoke it further. And for me as well I have told my husband what works for me, but either he thinks I what he is doing is not harmful or he does not understand what I mean. But for me, I am living through the "terrible twos" where my little baby is turning into a little man (as I like to call him. I too have the "squinting and pointing and sometimes he yells "NO" I am going to give that tickle technique a try. Thanks all. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2010 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.