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elementary reading levels

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catsferrets - 06 Oct 2004 04:27 GMT
I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got my
first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
"behind" with her reading and needs extra support.  I am totally
stunned by this information.  The child involved is my third, and she
went into first grade reading better than either of her older siblings
at the same age (one of whom was identified as gifted, and the other
is an average A/B student) Actually, they were a little older as first
graders as they had winter birthdays, and my youngest just turned six
at the end of the summer.) My first grader does some sight reading
(has been learning since kindergarten), and to me is right on track.
I don't know how any teacher can identify a first grader as being
below level after only four weeks of school.   This teacher has only a
couple years of teaching experience (I think she is about 27) but
supposedly she is a reading specialist.  I would appreciate any input.
toto - 06 Oct 2004 06:26 GMT
>and the other is an average A/B student)

hmmmm..   I don't think of an A/B student as average.
C is the *average* grade.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
Donna Metler - 06 Oct 2004 06:27 GMT
> I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got my
> first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> couple years of teaching experience (I think she is about 27) but
> supposedly she is a reading specialist.  I would appreciate any input.

One thing to remember is that the level of reading expected of young
children has risen dramatically. Children are now generally expected to
leave kindergarten reading, and reading pretty fluently, because if a child
is not reading at a "proficent" level by 3rd grade, the school faces
sanctions (and so does the child).

As a result, a lot of tests are being used to locate children who are even
slightly behind and give them extra help early-the one my district uses is
DIBLES. It is very possible that your child just had a bad test day, or
didn't do well on one section. For example, if a child doesn't read
primarily phonetically, there is a section which they may do quite badly on,
as it involves nonsense words.

I'd suggest meeting with the teacher, finding out exactly what she means and
what she plans to do-and then going from there. I certainly would not panic.
toto - 06 Oct 2004 06:41 GMT
>I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got my
>first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>couple years of teaching experience (I think she is about 27) but
>supposedly she is a reading specialist.  I would appreciate any input.

Things keep changing in terms of what is expected of a child at
the beginning of first grade.   It *was* true that first graders were
not expected to be reading several years ago, but that is no longer
true.  

Now, children are expected to leave kindergarten knowing the
alphabet, recognizing 5-10 sight words (such as the, is, my, like,
and see) and knowing how to read some 3-letter, short vowel
words such as cat, run, and hop.

Scholastic publishes a book called 100 Words Kids Need to
Read by 1st Grade which you might find helpful — it contains
lots of fun, colorful activities for practice with sight words.

Did the teacher say what the problems were?  One thing that
often happens with kids is that they learn to decode, but they
don't always comprehend what they read.  That is a serious
problem that usually doesn't come up until 3rd grade, but which
might happen earlier as well.

Phonics skills are also expected in first grade, though I am
not sure how much is expected this early in the year.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
catsferrets - 06 Oct 2004 13:04 GMT
> >I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got my
> >first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> Phonics skills are also expected in first grade, though I am
> not sure how much is expected this early in the year.

  As I said in my original post, my daughter does some sight reading.
Also, her kindergarten teacher (same school, and it was a demanding
kindergarten program.) Yesterday in her homework, she read to me a
short book talking about "big" animals. "The giraffe at the zoo is
big", "the dinosaur is big", etc.  The last sentence was "The moose is
enormous"  She said to me, "Mommy, they should have said the dinosaur
is enormous, because dinosaurs are "huger" than mooses."  I think this
indicates that she has a good comprehension level.
  I requested further input from her teacher. I have found in the
past that because my girls are quiet and reserved, they don't always
let the teacher know what they know.
   Thanks for the book recommendation.  I will order it. It sounds
like a great resource.
Peggy - 06 Oct 2004 14:46 GMT
> I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got my
> first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> couple years of teaching experience (I think she is about 27) but
> supposedly she is a reading specialist.  I would appreciate any input.

Her teacher's a reading specialist, so is probably more keen on what to look
for in a 1st grader than the average teacher who's not a reading specialist.
~Peggy
Circe - 06 Oct 2004 16:51 GMT
> I probably will sound like an overly sensitive mom, but I just got
> my first grader's first interim report, and her teacher said she was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> a first grader as being below level after only four weeks of
> school.

Are you sure the teacher means she is below grade level for this term or
that she is below grade level for what would be expected at the end of the
year? I've seen teachers do their grading both ways--either grading the kids
based on the proficiency expectation that's in place for the end of the year
or grading based on a guesstimate of where they should be at the end of each
term in order to reach grade-level proficiency by the end of the year. If
the teacher is using the year-end method, then you'd *expect* your daughter
to be below the proficiency level now since it's only the beginning of the
year.

My impression is that teachers often identify kids who are completely within
the norms for their grade level as being "behind" if their skills are
towards the bottom end of the normal range. I know we saw this with my son
(second grader), whose reading aloud skills were identified as being on the
low side during the first week of school. Now, as it happens, the charts say
they are supposed to read 53-84 wpm aloud by the end of the first trimester.
My son was reading 54 wpm during that first week. Now, clearly, he was in
the "proficient" range for the end of the first trimester--to say nothing of
the first week of school--but was identified as having slightly low skill
levels. I'm convinced that this is because of the pressure on schools
created by NCLB and the incessant standardized testing. The idea is to push,
push, push in the early part of the year so that by the time they take the
tests, they're at or well above the proficiency levels being tested.

In your shoes, I wouldn't worry too much about this. Have your daughter read
aloud to you for 5-10 minutes each day. That alone should improve her skills
quite quickly.

Good luck and HTH!
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
"Compassionate Colonialism"

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
Byron Canfield - 07 Oct 2004 17:18 GMT
> Are you sure the teacher means she is below grade level for this term or
> that she is below grade level for what would be expected at the end of the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> to be below the proficiency level now since it's only the beginning of the
> year.

Nowadays, particularly known to the reading specialists, the term
"grade-level" has a hard and fast definition, and it correlates directly to
the point in the school year (decimal value) when the evaluation is
administered.

Signature

"There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary numbers and those who don't."
-----------------------------
Byron "Barn" Canfield
http://www.headsprout.com
"Where kids learn to read."

Tina - 06 Oct 2004 18:56 GMT
It is so interesting that you posted this, as my daughter, in first
grade, just got a lower than expected (by me) grade in reading/writing
on her interim.  But she's in a gifted school, and she's only just
turned five this summer.

I'm interested in reading the responses you get, and after talking to
my daughter's teacher, I'll post with any relevant things I learn.
Tina.
Robyn Kozierok - 06 Oct 2004 21:58 GMT
>My first grader does some sight reading
>(has been learning since kindergarten), and to me is right on track.
>I don't know how any teacher can identify a first grader as being
>below level after only four weeks of school.  

I agree that 4 weeks is a short assessment period, especially if
your child is shy about showing what she knows in novel situations.

Your best bet is to speak with the teacher and ask what is expected
of kids at this stage of first grade.  Does your daughter know
letter sounds?  It could be that the teacher has phonics-based
standards she is basing her assessment on, and is not giving "credit"
for sight vocabulary.

Anyhow, the only way to find out is to ask ;-)

Good luck,
--Robyn
catsferrets - 07 Oct 2004 04:18 GMT
I wrote a note to the teacher today, asking for feedback, and she
telephoned me this afternoon.  She told me that my daughter's end of
kindergarten testing put her stongly at the first grade level, but
that her first week of first grade, testing was "inconclusive". Some
of the tests she took had her in the 97th percentile, but some had her
below the 89th.  She and the other reading specialist thought she
appeared to lost a little bit of ground over the summer, and decided
to put her in "support"  to gain it back. She said she didn't think it
will be needed for too long, as she is getting right back up to speed.
I guess I should be happy to accept any individual tutoring that
comes along.  Still, I think the teacher was premature in labeling her
as being in need of support with the scores in the upper  80s to 90s.
Chris Himes - 07 Oct 2004 15:59 GMT
> I wrote a note to the teacher today, asking for feedback, and she
> telephoned me this afternoon.  She told me that my daughter's end of
> kindergarten testing put her stongly at the first grade level, but
> that her first week of first grade, testing was "inconclusive".

I agree that her tests scores hardly seem to indicate a problem, it
sounds like the teacher is being cautious.  We had a similar
experience with my son in 6th grade when he was given several reading
tests the first 2-3 days of school.  He did miserably on them and had
very inconsistent scores between tests, and this is a child who is
reading well above grade level. We got a note from his new teacher
that he should be recommended for support services that really
surprised us. Turns out he was so distracted by the new environment,
checking out who was in his class, and the excitement of a new school
that he just wasn't concentrating on the test.  Two weeks later he was
testing off the chart, so you might ask the teacher if they could
retest in a few weeks and see where she stands then.

Chris
Kirsty - 07 Oct 2004 21:31 GMT
> I wrote a note to the teacher today, asking for feedback, and she
> telephoned me this afternoon.  She told me that my daughter's end of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> comes along.  Still, I think the teacher was premature in labeling her
> as being in need of support with the scores in the upper  80s to 90s.

The teacher may be a reading specialist, but she doesn't seem so
expert in interpreting test statistics.  Gosh, I would be *so worried*
if my daughter was doing better than nearly 9 out of 10 of her peers
in her worst test result.  LOL!
Welches - 07 Oct 2004 21:49 GMT
> > I wrote a note to the teacher today, asking for feedback, and she
> > telephoned me this afternoon.  She told me that my daughter's end of
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> if my daughter was doing better than nearly 9 out of 10 of her peers
> in her worst test result.  LOL!
I'd have thought the worry was that she'd lost ground, not her postition in
the class.
Personally I'd like a teacher to treat them as individuals and say "that"
child has lost ground, we want to see why, rather than they're still doing
better than the average child so I don't bother with the reason.
It would have been nice of her to discuss it with you rather than just
saying she was worried though.
Debbie
LFortier - 12 Oct 2004 13:49 GMT
>>catsferrets@comcast.net (catsferrets) wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> saying she was worried though.
> Debbie

Yes.  Assuming that the teacher is concerned over lost
ground, that is a good thing.  My oldest started 2nd grade
reading at a third grade level finished the year in the same
place.  We were not told until the end of year conference
and were not happy.  Hard to tell though if it was a natural
plateau, or something else.

Lesley
Bruce Bridgman and Jeanne Yang - 08 Oct 2004 12:50 GMT
>I wrote a note to the teacher today, asking for feedback, and she
> telephoned me this afternoon.  She told me that my daughter's end of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> comes along.  Still, I think the teacher was premature in labeling her
> as being in need of support with the scores in the upper  80s to 90s.

It sounds like the concern isn't the actual score (80s versus 90s) but the
direction of her scores  - downward, which, no matter how high the original
score, isn't the way you want your daughter to go.  Be glad that your
daughter is getting extra help for now - it means that your teacher is
looking out for her.

Jeanne
catsferretskids - 27 Jan 2006 15:19 GMT
Wow! I had forgotten about this and ran across my orginal post today (I had
to change my name because I couldn't get into my catsferrets
account)<p>Thought you might want to know how it all came out.  I got a
callfrom the reading specialist a month or two after my last post.  She
said that my daughter was now testing above grade level so was no longer
eligible for services. I said - how could that be? If she needed services
to get to that level, wouldn't her skills decline if she left? The teacher
admitted to me that she probably shouldn't have been there in the first
place. She said my daughter was probably nervous in her first few weeks of
first grade so didn't test well. Of course by this time some damage was
done - she felt like something was wrong with her because she went to the
"special" reading class<P>
At the end of first grade she tested at mid 3rd grade level. Now in mid
second grade all I know is that she is in the highest level reading group
and is above grade level.<p>Also it turned out that almost every parent
had a problem with the first grade teacher.  She has developed a
reputation, and parents request that their children not be placed in her
class.  So it  wasn't just me being a sensitive mom.
Chris - 27 Jan 2006 15:50 GMT
> Wow! I had forgotten about this and ran across my orginal post today (I had
> to change my name because I couldn't get into my catsferrets
> account
The teacher
> admitted to me that she probably shouldn't have been there in the first
> place. She said my daughter was probably nervous in her first few weeks of
> first grade so didn't test well. Of course by this time some damage was
> done - she felt like something was wrong with her because she went to the
> "special" reading class<P>

We had a similar experience with my son in 6th grade, his first year in
middle school. They did some kind of reading tests the first few weeks
of class, and we received a letter that our son would need extra
services. I was stunned. He had always been at the top of his class,
reading books well above grade level for years, scoring highly on
standardized tests.  A few weeks later we received another letter that
he was being recommended for some gifted program.  Huh?  When I talked
to my son his explanation was that those first few weeks he was so
excited checking out who was in his class, what everyone else was
doing, etc., that he couldn't really concentrate on the timed test.

I think it just shows that teachers need to be really careful about
using just one observation or measurement to determine needs of
students. Lots of things can influence a young child on any given day.
Better to observe over a period of time first...

Chris
 
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