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How old for strollers?

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Donna Metler - 31 Dec 2005 06:14 GMT
We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
strollers-and since many of these kids were climbing in and out, running
around, etc, I don't think there was a physical need for it! It's hard
enough to deal with a stroller with a baby-I can't imagine pushing a child
who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
reasonable?

Signature

Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

Hierophant - 31 Dec 2005 06:21 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
> And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

Who cares?  If the kid enjoys it and the guardian enjoys it why would
there be a problem?
toypup - 31 Dec 2005 06:57 GMT
>> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
>> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Who cares?  If the kid enjoys it and the guardian enjoys it why would
> there be a problem?

I agree.  If it's not affecting OP, it's not her business.  If she doesn't
want to push a stroller with an older child, then she can refuse to do it,
but she shouldn't judge others who don't mind doing it.

FWIW, I think most strollers go up to 40 pounds and umbrella strollers go up
to 30.  There are some heavy duty strollers that go much higher.
Donna Metler - 31 Dec 2005 17:05 GMT
> >> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> >> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> FWIW, I think most strollers go up to 40 pounds and umbrella strollers go up
> to 30.  There are some heavy duty strollers that go much higher.

Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going to
be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
dealing with the stroller and my daughter's only a year old.

I'm more interested as to why parents would find it worth the nuisance for a
child who can obviously walk-because right now, I'm definitely looking
forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.
Nan - 31 Dec 2005 17:08 GMT
>Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going to
>be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
>dealing with the stroller and my daughter's only a year old.

You could always get an umbrella stroller.  They're more lightweight
and easier to stow in a trunk than other strollers.

>I'm more interested as to why parents would find it worth the nuisance for a
>child who can obviously walk-because right now, I'm definitely looking
>forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
>responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

We don't go to many places that require a lot of walking, but many
parents do.  Even older kids can get pretty tired while out walking
for a long period of time, like at a theme park or fair.
I'd prefer the stroller over carrying, or listening to my almost 6
year old complaining constantly!

Nan
Anonymama - 31 Dec 2005 17:20 GMT
> I'm more interested as to why parents would find it worth the nuisance for a
> child who can obviously walk...

Because I can walk further than my child can. If you have the right
stroller, it's not a nuisance.
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Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006

Quoting, for users of Google Groups:
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Banty - 31 Dec 2005 17:42 GMT
>> FWIW, I think most strollers go up to 40 pounds and umbrella strollers go
>up
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
>responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

Is it the weight of the stroller?  Or possibly the handles being the wrong
height for you?  Or maybe the one you have isn't so well built?

Or maybe another adult in your household can take some of the stroller-pushing
duty?  ;)

Banty
Banty - 31 Dec 2005 17:52 GMT
>>> FWIW, I think most strollers go up to 40 pounds and umbrella strollers go
>>up
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Or maybe another adult in your household can take some of the stroller-pushing
>duty?  ;)

Ah, Donna - I just recalled your medical history.  Maybe something lighter, like
an umbrella stroller, or a well-built smaller conventional stroller will work
better for you.

Or maybe your daughter will need to develop more walking independance sooner
than most others.  After all, our parents managed without strollers so much
(although there were some around then).  No sin in that.

Banty
enigma - 31 Dec 2005 20:03 GMT
> Or maybe your daughter will need to develop more walking
> independance sooner than most others.  After all, our
> parents managed without strollers so much (although there
> were some around then).  No sin in that.

i don't know about your parents (or grandparents) but mine
had baby buggies (perambulators) when we were little. my
grandmother (now almost 101) still has the wicker buggy she
had for my mom as a baby.
strollers are a fairly recent innovation, since the mid-70s
at least.
but i do think buggies were only good up to 3 or 4 years
old... of course, people rarely walked that far with kids back
then either.
lee
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war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

Beth Kevles - 31 Dec 2005 17:51 GMT
Hi --

I think we gradually gave up the stroller over time, and by the time my
youngest was 4 1/2 or 5 had given it up completely.  We also graduated
from a heavy-duty one to a $14 umbrella version by the time the younger
was about 3.

The reason we retained the stroller so long was for longer outings when
the kids got too tired to walk, but were too large for me to carry
easily.  (I, too, get tired on those very long walks.)  So, for example,
I'd use it when going on the LONG walk for groceries.  By the time we
were ready to return home I had one child in the stroller holding a bag
or two of groceries, two bags hanging off the handles of the stroller,
and another child complaining beside me that he was too tired to
walk. :-) We also brought it along in the car or on the metro for
outings that involved lots of walking, such as trips down to the museums
at the National Mall in DC.

Switching to the umbrella stroller was a BIG help.

--Beth Kevles
 bethkevles@aol.com
 http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
 Disclaimer:  Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
 advice.  Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE:  No email is read at my MIT address.  Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.
Cathy Kearns - 31 Dec 2005 18:28 GMT
> Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going to
> be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
> dealing with the stroller and my daughter's only a year old.

We pretty much gave up strollers when the girls were around 2 or 3.  They
started walking, or preferred riding in the wagon when we were going to the
grocery store.  If they are used to walking they can walk pretty far.  I
remember taking them to Disney world when the youngest was 4.  She, and her
five year friend would wander around Disneyworld holding onto the hammer
loops on my capenter's shorts.  Note, they may be able to walk far, but not
fast.  I think some folks prefer the strollers so they can get to where they
are walking faster.  And when they are on the ground they seem to be able to
check out more interesting stuff, so that takes even longer.  I was the type
that if we set aside 2 hours for the park, and it took 30 minutes to walk
the half block to get there that was fine, cuz the girls were doing what
interested them on the way there.
bizby40 - 31 Dec 2005 19:01 GMT
>> >> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw
>> >> quite
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

The good news is that it is highly individual, and when it takes
more effort than it is worth to *you*, you can always stop
doing it.

My kids are almost 3 years apart, and gave up the stroller
at the time time.  My oldest was highly clingy, and would
throw fits if her little brother was allowed in the stroller and
she was not.  They were far enough apart in age that we
never bothered with a double stroller.

What that ended up meaning was that when I went out by
myself, it was usually somewhere like the grocery store
where I'd have a cart.  If DH was with me, we usually
took 2 strollers.  And that covered most really long things
like trips to the Zoo or amusement park.

Bizby
seasidestitcher@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2005 19:41 GMT
I used an umbrella stroller as long as I could.  Sometimes they poop
out while shopping.  Then you can sit them down with some juice and a
snack , then you can keep going.  It is very convenient.  That is why I
switched to a smaller stroller.  Those bulky strollers can be a big
pain.

Going anywhere for a long period of time is the perfect excuse for a
stroller.  Amusement parks, beach/boardwalk, out shopping, sightseeing,
etc. Not only can they sit when they get tired, you are not constantly
running after them when they try to wander.  Even the best behaved
child will wander when something catches their eye.

Also, they are great to hold packages and a drink.  Boy did I miss that
comvenience when we did away with the stroller.  Having to carry my
packages after 12 years was a major pain!!  LOL
Di
dragonlady - 31 Dec 2005 21:01 GMT
> > >> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite
> a
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

I understand that -- and it will vary from kid to kid.  With some kids
(or combinations of kids -- you only have one, which makes a
difference), lugging the stroller along is, ultimately, LESS work than
trying to cope with a child (or children)  who is too tired to walk
another step.

For that matter, it will vary from adult to adult:  I had two different
types of strollers (one fairly portable, one not so much) for different
circumstances. and didn't mind hauling them about.  As others have
pointed out, it also gave me something to haul some stuff when we were
shopping.

If you find the stroller a PIA, you'll probably stop using it MUCH
sooner than someone like me, who didn't mind it so much.  (There are
folks who NEVER use one, as they find them a royal nuisance in general.)

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Penny Gaines - 31 Dec 2005 22:15 GMT
> Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going
> to be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

We stopped using it regularly when my youngest was nearly three.  The
main impetus was moving to somewhere with a very steep hill.

Like others have said, we still used it ocasionally when we had long trips
put, although I can't remember when we stopped.  

Signature

Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

grandma Rosalie - 02 Jan 2006 20:13 GMT
When my oldest two were little, I didn't use the stroller all that much
except for places like Disney when the little one could nap in it while
we continued on.  I have pictures of my ds at about 6-8 months (the
youngest) being pushed in the stroller by his next oldest sibling (2.7
years older) when we went on outings.

We had the type stroller that could be made into a double with one
older kid sitting in the back, but it was probably more equivalent to
the umbrella type strollers of today because it wasn't very heavy and
in those days we didn't have a real car seat option.

We often went where strollers would not be possible like National Park
trails, and my kids didn't get carried, they walked.

Some of my grandchildren are the same way and they don't ride in
strollers much, but their parent will often have the stroller to carry
all the 'stuff' you have when you have kids.

And then there is one granddaughter who seemed determined to be carried
everywhere when she was 2 or 3.

But eventually, her mom (dd#3) used to walk the older child to school
with the little one in the stroller, but pretty soon she didn't take
the stroller anymore and the little one walked twice as far as the
older one (to and from school twice a day) and was consequently more
fit.
Caledonia - 31 Dec 2005 22:46 GMT
> > >> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite
> a
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
> dealing with the stroller and my daughter's only a year old.

Our old stroller (one of those all-in-one types where an infant car
seat snaps into it, circa 1998) was a battleship. Fast forward to 2003,
where I purchased a jogging stroller that weighs about 1/3 as much and
can carry 2x as much -- definitely worth it for us.

> I'm more interested as to why parents would find it worth the nuisance for a
> child who can obviously walk-because right now, I'm definitely looking
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

DD2 (almost 3) can walk well and do fair distances, but when we walk
DD1 to school it's 2 miles each way (uphill each way, too, in the
driving snow, barefoot...). She could walk there slooowly, but most
likely couldn't make the trek back in any amount of reasonable time.
The jogging stroller means that I *can* walk DD1, since without it I'd
just have DD1 ride the bus all the time given that it'd be too tricky
to manage DD2.

Caledonia
toto - 01 Jan 2006 00:52 GMT
>I'm more interested as to why parents would find it worth the nuisance for a
>child who can obviously walk-because right now, I'm definitely looking
>forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
>responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

Older children get tired - I know we used the stroller when the kids
were 3 or 4 though not at school age.

I think every situation is different.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
dejablues - 01 Jan 2006 01:07 GMT
> > >> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite
> a
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

My stroller was a waste of money because I rarely used it. I'm not a
mall-shopper or neighborhood walker, and once the kids could stand, they
just wanted out of it anyway.
Ericka Kammerer - 01 Jan 2006 01:19 GMT
> Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going to
> be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

    It depends on how *far* your child can walk.
At the moment, I rarely take a stroller for my 2.5yo;
however, we're rarely walking any long distance.  If
we go to the playground, it's a short walk home.  Most
other places I'd have the freedom to leave when she
got tired of walking.  If I were to take her out for
a day, though, whether that was to the zoo or out for
a day of shopping or whatever, I would definitely need
to bring the stroller unless I was prepared to carry
her a lot of the time.  She's not anywhere near able to
walk all day.  Not only that, but if she's on foot we
have to have the time to explore every nook and cranny
at her pace.  If I need to get through some errands
quickly and efficiently, odds are I'm going to need
to sit her down and give her something else to occupy
herself with while I make tracks.
    So, depending on your lifestyle, it probably
won't be long before you can do a lot of things without
a stroller, but it will probably be a long time before
you can do *everything* without a stroller.

Best wishes,
Ericka
Sue - 01 Jan 2006 13:54 GMT
"Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
> Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going to
> be stuck lugging the battleship around! I'm already sick and tired of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> forward to the day when my daughter can start taking on some of the
> responsibility for her own transportation from place to place.

Big kids get tired too Donna. And having a place for them is nice. My friend
has a big child and people mistaken him for being older than he really is.
It's frustrating when people are so judgemental. Remember, you might not
have the whole story as to why people use strollers for older children.

Also, other reasons would be medical conditions. I have a daughter with a
medical condition that makes her tire very easily. You wouldn't know it by
looking at her, so at first glance people could wonder why an older child
needed a stroller, but she used a stroller for a long time if there was
going to be a lot of walking.
Signature

Sue (mom to three girls)

Donna Metler - 01 Jan 2006 16:35 GMT
> "Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
> > Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm going
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> needed a stroller, but she used a stroller for a long time if there was
> going to be a lot of walking.
I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers who were
between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their age toddlers or
have medical conditions-not when you're talking about literally thousands of
children (and please remember that I work with young children for a living,
so I'm pretty attuned to a child's developmental age, not just their
physical size-there are definite apparent differences between, say, a large
3 yr old and a small 5 yr old)  I've done walking field trips with preschool
and young school-aged groups, so I know that many children of that age range
can walk for pretty long distances if they choose to do so.  I wasn't saying
it was wrong that they'd do so-I was wondering WHY they'd bother if a child
could walk on their own. Apparently, there are reasons, and they're reasons
which are perfectly logical. No judgement intended.

> Sue (mom to three girls)
dragonlady - 01 Jan 2006 21:44 GMT
> > "Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
> > > Not offending, exactly, more like wondering just how many years I'm
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> could walk on their own. Apparently, there are reasons, and they're reasons
> which are perfectly logical. No judgement intended.

Personally, I haven't read any of what you've written as judgemental,
just questions.

However, there are so MANY people who ARE  judgemental about this --  
"LOOK at that woman putting that child in a stroller when he's obviously
strong enough to walk on his own.  What kind of a mother IS she?" --
that this is one of those topics that can make people get a bit prickly.

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Sue - 02 Jan 2006 09:43 GMT
"Donna Metler" <dmmetler@xxxbellsouthxxx.net> wrote in message
> I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers who were
> between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their age toddlers or
> have medical conditions-not when you're talking about literally thousands of
> children

Of course not. I was just giving you scenerios that perhaps you have not
thought of because your post was about not understanding why older children
might need a stroller.

>I was wondering WHY they'd bother if a child could walk on their own.

Many kids can walk short distances on their own and some cannot.

>Apparently, there are reasons, and they're reasons which are perfectly
logical. >No judgement intended.

None taken. You asked for reasons and I gave you two. :o)
Signature

Sue (mom to three girls)

Nikki - 03 Jan 2006 15:35 GMT
> I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers
> who were between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> school-aged groups, so I know that many children of that age range
> can walk for pretty long distances if they choose to do so.

The key is if they choose to do so :-).

I never used a stroller for my babies and can't really figure out why people
do.  I had one which was a giant hassle.  It was much easier for me to carry
them.  I did carry them *a lot* until they were 3yo or so.  When I wanted a
stroller (and no longer had one) it was when they were to big to carry and
very loud in their complaining and slow in their walking!  I do have a wagon
for walks to the park (which really is a little to far for a 4yo to get home
from if you stay playing or swimming long) but it isn't so hot for loading
into the trunk if I'm going somewhere not home, lol.

Signature

Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

dragonlady - 03 Jan 2006 15:59 GMT
> > I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers
> > who were between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> from if you stay playing or swimming long) but it isn't so hot for loading
> into the trunk if I'm going somewhere not home, lol.

I suspect you'll want a stroller for Thing One and Thing Two . . . it's
much harder to carry two at once!  (Though someone does make a twin
front-carrier:  it's sort of two that zip together, so two people can
carry one each, or, when you're the only one there, one person can carry
both.  I also managed one with a front carrier and one with a back
carrier, but only a few times and not for long distances.)
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Banty - 03 Jan 2006 16:25 GMT
>> > I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers
>> > who were between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>I suspect you'll want a stroller for Thing One and Thing Two . . . it's
>much harder to carry two at once!

She'll be better balanced, though...  ;)

Banty
dragonlady - 04 Jan 2006 02:17 GMT
> >> > I don't believe for a second that 90% of the children in strollers
> >> > who were between the apparent ages of 4-6 were either large for their
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Banty

I don't know about that -- I think I found caring for twins left me
feeling pretty unbalanced . . .

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Nikki - 03 Jan 2006 17:43 GMT
> I suspect you'll want a stroller for Thing One and Thing Two . . .
> it's much harder to carry two at once!

LOL,  I can imagine!  I definitely plan on getting a stroller this time
around.  I hated carrying the infant car seats and didn't have one for
Hunter or in the beginning for Luke.  I did end up getting one for Luke when
he was nearly three months old for various reasons but I have a hard time
carrying them.  I can carry the baby alone for much longer and with much
less discomfort.

(Though someone does make a
> twin front-carrier:

I saw that on line.  It didn't look very comfortable.  The two sling thing
didn't look very comfortable either.   I do think I'll try and get a sling
or a pouch or something so that for around the house I can carry one in that
and the other without a sling or maybe they'll cooperate and only want
holding at different times - HA ;-)

Signature

Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

Irene - 03 Jan 2006 18:21 GMT
> > I suspect you'll want a stroller for Thing One and Thing Two . . .
> > it's much harder to carry two at once!
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> and the other without a sling or maybe they'll cooperate and only want
> holding at different times - HA ;-)

I haven't seen that, but what I have seen is people wearing one on the
front and one on the back, either with mei tai's and/or wraps, more so
than ring slings or pouches.  Ds was a bit too heavy for me to try
that, but I did do a bit of pushing ds in the stroller while wearing dd
in the sling - but ds has gotten too big for me to push him in a
stroller nowadays, esp. if I'm also carrying dd on the front.  (I
*might* be able to do it if dd was on my back - but I've found that
simply not bringing the stroller ends up easier since then ds can't beg
to be pushed in it.)

I've also found that ds begs to be carried *only* when dh is with us.
If it's just me, he'll walk a lot further without complaining. ;-)

Irene
dragonlady - 04 Jan 2006 02:16 GMT
> > > I suspect you'll want a stroller for Thing One and Thing Two . . .
> > > it's much harder to carry two at once!
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> simply not bringing the stroller ends up easier since then ds can't beg
> to be pushed in it.)

Alas, that approach doesn't work with twins.  

> I've also found that ds begs to be carried *only* when dh is with us.
> If it's just me, he'll walk a lot further without complaining. ;-)
>
> Irene

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Irene - 04 Jan 2006 16:19 GMT
> > I haven't seen that, but what I have seen is people wearing one on the
> > front and one on the back, either with mei tai's and/or wraps, more so
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Alas, that approach doesn't work with twins.

Which part?  I think I listed about 3 or 4 ideas up there!

I did peek at the Twins forum at www.thebabywearer.com for ideas, since
this seems to be coming up a lot lately, and some people also suggested
ring slings or pouches for a front carry combined with a mei tai or
wrap for a back carry.  I think I envision the front & back mei tais
most because one of the twin moms there has her avatar picture that
way.

Irene
dragonlady - 05 Jan 2006 04:59 GMT
> > > I haven't seen that, but what I have seen is people wearing one on the
> > > front and one on the back, either with mei tai's and/or wraps, more so
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Which part?  I think I listed about 3 or 4 ideas up there!

Carrying a preschooler while ALSO wearing twins, is the vision I was
getting  --  I had to bring the stroller, and just deal with my older
child begging to ride in it.  

> I did peek at the Twins forum at www.thebabywearer.com for ideas, since
> this seems to be coming up a lot lately, and some people also suggested
> ring slings or pouches for a front carry combined with a mei tai or
> wrap for a back carry.  I think I envision the front & back mei tais
> most because one of the twin moms there has her avatar picture that
> way.

I know I've seen pictures of it, but, frankly, the weight alone would
get to me fairly quickly.  Carrying two newborns, maybe -- but by the
time they're 15 or 20 pounds each, carrying them around starts to be
real work!   I can't imagine "wearing" twin toddlers.

> Irene

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

toypup - 05 Jan 2006 05:00 GMT
> I know I've seen pictures of it, but, frankly, the weight alone would
> get to me fairly quickly.  Carrying two newborns, maybe -- but by the
> time they're 15 or 20 pounds each, carrying them around starts to be
> real work!   I can't imagine "wearing" twin toddlers.

Yes, wearing one toddler is tough.  I got my daily workout that way.  I
can't imagine wearing two toddlers.  And it gets hot wearing a kid -- all
that body heat in a warm climate.  Two kids would be murder.
Irene - 05 Jan 2006 16:06 GMT
> > > > I haven't seen that, but what I have seen is people wearing one on the
> > > > front and one on the back, either with mei tai's and/or wraps, more so
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> getting  --  I had to bring the stroller, and just deal with my older
> child begging to ride in it.

Aah - I hadn't actually meant carrying the pre-schooler at the same
time as twins.  That would be an extreme emergency sort of thing!  That
simply was what worked for my particular situation best, since normally
ds *could* walk the distance I was willing to also walk - and I could
carry him for a short while if absolutely necessary, while also
carrying baby.  If I had twins, I probably would use my stroller a lot
more.

> > I did peek at the Twins forum at www.thebabywearer.com for ideas, since
> > this seems to be coming up a lot lately, and some people also suggested
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> time they're 15 or 20 pounds each, carrying them around starts to be
> real work!   I can't imagine "wearing" twin toddlers.

Well, I think that's something you would have to work up to, as far as
developing the right muscles.  And I don't think it's something most
people do on a regular basis, tbh.  I know enough people who carry 30
lb toddler/preschoolers (mostly in mei tais or wraps), so that's
similar to two 15 lb toddlers, I would think.

Irene
Nikki - 05 Jan 2006 16:56 GMT
>> I know I've seen pictures of it, but, frankly, the weight alone would
>> get to me fairly quickly.  Carrying two newborns, maybe -- but by the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> lb toddler/preschoolers (mostly in mei tais or wraps), so that's
> similar to two 15 lb toddlers, I would think.

Yaybut whose toddlers are 15lbs? lol  Not mine and I'm assuming these next
two guys will be about the same but perhaps they will be smaller?  I know
you were talking in general and not to me specifically, I just got a chuckle
out it ;-)  I also know there are beautiful 15lb toddlers but it would be
decidedly odd coming from these two parents ;-).

Mine were 18lbs and 20lbs at 6mos and by the time they were toddlers (18mos)
they were 25lbs and 27lbs.   That would be 50lbs of squirming toddler
hanging off me while interacting with two bigger children.  No thank you
regardless of the handy slings/packs available ;-)

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Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

Irene - 05 Jan 2006 18:04 GMT
> >> I know I've seen pictures of it, but, frankly, the weight alone would
> >> get to me fairly quickly.  Carrying two newborns, maybe -- but by the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> hanging off me while interacting with two bigger children.  No thank you
> regardless of the handy slings/packs available ;-)

Lol.  Since dd didn't hit 20 lbs until 18 months, I forget that's not
exactly normal!

Irene
dragonlady - 06 Jan 2006 01:35 GMT
> >> I know I've seen pictures of it, but, frankly, the weight alone would
> >> get to me fairly quickly.  Carrying two newborns, maybe -- but by the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> hanging off me while interacting with two bigger children.  No thank you
> regardless of the handy slings/packs available ;-)

Chances are good that they'll be somewhat smaller at birth, but catch up
quickly!  (My twins were 6 lbs 5 oz and 6 lbs 10 oz -- smaller than my
sigleton by about a pound, but still good sized babies!)

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Nikki - 06 Jan 2006 15:25 GMT
> Chances are good that they'll be somewhat smaller at birth, but catch
> up quickly!  (My twins were 6 lbs 5 oz and 6 lbs 10 oz -- smaller
> than my sigleton by about a pound, but still good sized babies!)

I know, I'm bracing myself. :-) Mine were both well over 8lbs and in my mind
that is what a newborn should look like.  The tiny guys look postively
breakable, lol.  Of course I don't really want to carry around 17-18lbs of
baby anyway ;-)

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Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

dragonlady - 06 Jan 2006 01:34 GMT
> > > > > I haven't seen that, but what I have seen is people wearing one on
> > > > > the
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Irene

Sure, but my kids weren't small.  I would have been the one trying to
carry TWO 30 lb toddler/preschoolers!

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Circe - 03 Jan 2006 18:29 GMT
> LOL,  I can imagine!  I definitely plan on getting a stroller this time
> around.  I hated carrying the infant car seats and didn't have one for
> Hunter or in the beginning for Luke.  I did end up getting one for Luke
> when he was nearly three months old for various reasons but I have a hard
> time carrying them.  I can carry the baby alone for much longer and with
> much less discomfort.

The thing I had when Vernon was a baby that I really loved was the stroller
that the infant car seat can attach to. That was SUCH a lifesaver. If he was
asleep in the carseat, I could just take the seat out, plop it in the
stroller, and go (and often come back) without ever waking him up. I am
pretty sure that Graco makes a duo tandem stroller with this feature. You
can put both car seats into the stroller. You might look into that.
--
Be well, Barbara
Boliath - 03 Jan 2006 19:15 GMT
>>LOL,  I can imagine!  I definitely plan on getting a stroller this time
>>around.  I hated carrying the infant car seats and didn't have one for
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> --
> Be well, Barbara

Snap N Go, great things for twins, my best mate has 9 month old twins,
the most valuable things to her when they were teeney tiny were the
boppies, she swaddled them and propped them up in them, papasans, and
the snap n go stoller that took the 2 car seats.
Nikki - 03 Jan 2006 20:52 GMT
>>> LOL,  I can imagine!  I definitely plan on getting a stroller this
>>> time around.  I hated carrying the infant car seats and didn't have
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> boppies, she swaddled them and propped them up in them, papasans, and
> the snap n go stoller that took the 2 car seats.

I'll have to look for that for sure!  Thanks!

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Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

bizby40 - 03 Jan 2006 19:22 GMT
> The thing I had when Vernon was a baby that I really loved was the
> stroller that the infant car seat can attach to. That was SUCH a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with this feature. You can put both car seats into the stroller. You might
> look into that.

Yeah, I *loved* that thing.  They didn't actually make them, AFAIK
when DD was born, but right around then someone came out with a
stroller frame that could be used with many different brands, including
ours.  My SIL had a huge stroller that had a snap-in feature for the
infant car seat, but our little frame couldn't have weighed more than
a pound or two and folded flat.

Bizby
Anonymama - 03 Jan 2006 16:21 GMT
> I never used a stroller for my babies and can't really figure out why people
> do.

I didn't have a car until my son was two.
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Nikki - 03 Jan 2006 17:36 GMT
>> I never used a stroller for my babies and can't really figure out
>> why people do.
>
> I didn't have a car until my son was two.

Well I didn't say that very well :-)  It makes a lot of sense for some
people to have them but I could carry them for quite a long time and when I
went to purchase things, I always had the car.  I also didn't walk for
exercise.  If I had I would have wanted a stroller for sure.  Even most
people like me have them around here, which is perfectly fine.  I didn't
even have a car seat I could carry Hunter in but they are quite common and I
did have one for Luke, which I purchased when he was 3mos old already.  I
found that a) he actually slept in the car and it was nice to take him out
without waking him up b) I could set him down to help the toddler where for
the first three months I had to hold him in my arms while helping Hunter
which was kind of a PITA.  Circumstances change.

I'm definitely getting a stroller this time.  We'll be on the go more with
two bigger kids and I'll have two babies.   I can't imagine it will be very
convenient to be carrying two around, lol.

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Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

MsLiz - 31 Dec 2005 06:57 GMT
> > We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> > few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Who cares?  If the kid enjoys it and the guardian enjoys it why would
> there be a problem?

I kept my daughter in one for as long as she'd stay in it.  She was
always very  big for her age too and it was funny to see her it.  For
one, it provided a place for me to bring stuff like food, my purse,
bottled water, jackets, etc.  Two, it was great exercise for me to push
her up hills.  The only thing that I can imagine that the OP is worried
about is that the child should be getting the exercise?  I suspect that
kids who are overweight are not overweight because of sitting in
strollers a couple of times a day.  Or perhaps the OP is worried that
people will laugh???  We got a big kick out of it in my family, about
what a lug I pushed around.  She turned into quite the toothpick, as
did I when I was pushing her around.  Oh yeah...one more benefit.
Since she was so big...it helped me in that I didn't have to carry her
when she got tired!
-L. - 31 Dec 2005 07:22 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
> reasonable?

Until the child is able and willing to respond to verbal commands which
are mandatory for safety.  For some this occurs early - 2ish, for
others not until 4 or 5 ish.  Anything over 5, I'd  think it would be
unnecessary.  Or at least I can't think of any circumstance where a
stroller would be required.

-L.
enigma - 31 Dec 2005 13:02 GMT
>> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego,
>> and I saw quite a few children who looked to be school
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> least I can't think of any circumstance where a stroller
> would be required.

ever spend the day at the zoo or out wandering around
somewhere doing touristy things? even 5 &6 year olds get tired
of walking fairly easily & a stroller is usually easier than
carrying a kid that age.
it's certainly not "required", just easier :) in our case, we
often use a wagon instead of a stroller for pretty much the
same purpose. we spend much of the summer at Renaissance
fairs, & it's easier to make a wagon look more "period" than a
thouroughly modern invention like a stroller, too... although
i suspect a stroller takes up less room in the car.
lee <trust me, a 4 year old gets real tired during a 9 hour
stint at Faire>
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freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

LAdezio@gmail.com - 01 Jan 2006 02:19 GMT
> in our case, we
> often use a wagon instead of a stroller for pretty much the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> lee <trust me, a 4 year old gets real tired during a 9 hour
> stint at Faire>

I see a lot of wagons used for child transport at faire, too.  It *is*
less jarring to see a wagon than it is to see a stroller being pushed
by someone in Elizabethan court gear <g>.....

(So glad mine are waaaaaaay past that stage.....)

Out of curiosity, what faires do y'all do?  

Leah
enigma - 01 Jan 2006 03:13 GMT
>> in our case, we
>> often use a wagon instead of a stroller for pretty much
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> (So glad mine are waaaaaaay past that stage.....)

if you put yours in strollers or even a wagaon, i bet you'd
get stares! :)

> Out of curiosity, what faires do y'all do?

Sterling NY & Vermont mostly. i want to get back to Tuxedo
(also NY), maybe this year. might try to get to Maine too (it
was on hiatus last year)
i refuse to go back to King Richard's in MA (even though it
was where i started out working). thier gate & food policies
are not something i want to deal with.
lee <PA & CT have good faires too>
LAdezio@gmail.com - 02 Jan 2006 04:24 GMT
> >> in our case, we
> >> often use a wagon instead of a stroller for pretty much
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>  if you put yours in strollers or even a wagaon, i bet you'd
> get stares! :)

At 20 and almost 16, you betcha!  :)

> > Out of curiosity, what faires do y'all do?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> are not something i want to deal with.
> lee <PA & CT have good faires too>

For me, since moving to PA a few years ago, the bulk of 'season' is
split between PARF and Tux (having grown up and lived in NJ, Tux was
'home' and is still my 'mothership' <g>).  I've done Sterling once, but
it's a bit of a schlep to drive from here.  I was on cast at NJRK for a
few seasons a few years back and really need to work MDRF back into the
schedule because it's such a shopper's paradise! <g>

I want to get at least one weekend at CT in, since a good friend is one
of the show's managers.  King Richard's is one I skip.  I don't hear
much good about it as far as their policies go, like you've mentioned.

My almost 16 year old is bugging me to do one of the Florida shows --
the Pirate fest in Key West, at the very least.  All it takes is time
and money......  ;)

Leah
dragonlady - 02 Jan 2006 07:09 GMT
> >  if you put yours in strollers or even a wagaon, i bet you'd
> > get stares! :)
>
> At 20 and almost 16, you betcha!  :)

Due to a problem with my knees, I usually use an electric cart when I
hit the grocery stores.  (Lots of turns and I just don't get along.)

If my younger (just turned 20) daughter is with me, she MUCH prefers to
take a wheelchair and push ME around.

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enigma - 02 Jan 2006 13:20 GMT
dragonlady <mehouck@removepacbell.net> wrote in
news:mehouck-3D69C1.23102301012006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.co
m:

> In article
> <1136175855.541567.185210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> cart when I hit the grocery stores.  (Lots of turns and I
> just don't get along.)

i'm having really bad pain in my feet when i get up in the
mornings & come from a family history of arthritis... need to
get that checked soon, but i forsee travel difficulties in a
few years.

> If my younger (just turned 20) daughter is with me, she
> MUCH prefers to take a wheelchair and push ME around.

there's an old wicker wheelchair at one of the local antique
stores (i live right off 'antique alley' in NH) that i'm
considering buying & refurbishing for eventual use...
i really hope i don't end up needing it as Sterling is *very*
hilly & i'm NOT giving up my faires! :p it's not really
conducive to electric chair use either. i may start
petitioning the owners now to allow me a goat cart ;)
(actually i should just buy the faire... that would keep me
busy)

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war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

dragonlady - 02 Jan 2006 17:03 GMT
> > Due to a problem with my knees, I usually use an electric
> > cart when I hit the grocery stores.  (Lots of turns and I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> get that checked soon, but i forsee travel difficulties in a
> few years.

If you're having severe pain in your feet when you FIRST get up, I
suggest having yourself checked for plantar fascitis (I'm probably not
spelling that right, but the  doctor will know).  It isn't a form of
arthritis, but a form of tendinitis, iirc.

Hurts like hell.  But treatable -- I suffered with it for a long time,
but once I got over it, it never came back (unlike arthritis, which is
ongoing).
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Sidheag McCormack - 02 Jan 2006 18:32 GMT
> Hurts like hell. But treatable -- I suffered with it for a long time,
> but once I got over it, it never came back (unlike arthritis, which is
> ongoing).

You were quite lucky, or else picked very good treatment that I'd like to
know about - plantar fasciitis is notoriously hard to treat and prone to
come back, actually. I still have mine from time to time - err - 6 years
later, despite treatment and doing exercises conscientiously. What
treatment did you have, may I ask?

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
Banty - 02 Jan 2006 19:08 GMT
> > Hurts like hell. But treatable -- I suffered with it for a long time,
> > but once I got over it, it never came back (unlike arthritis, which is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Sidheag
>DS Colin Oct 27 2003

You didn't ask me, but I do (did?) have it since four years ago, and what has
kekp me from suffering further from it was:

1. Initial cortisone injections (for inflammation) in the beginning of treatment

2. Religious (every day!) use of custom orthoses provided by the podiatrist or
wearing Birkenstocks

3. Losing 25 pounds

Banty
dragonlady - 02 Jan 2006 20:38 GMT
> > > Hurts like hell. But treatable -- I suffered with it for a long time,
> > > but once I got over it, it never came back (unlike arthritis, which is
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Banty

You and I DO have a lot in common!  (The cortisone injections didn't
help me.)
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dragonlady - 02 Jan 2006 20:38 GMT
>  > Hurts like hell. But treatable -- I suffered with it for a long time,
>  > but once I got over it, it never came back (unlike arthritis, which is
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Sidheag
> DS Colin Oct 27 2003

Sure -- I'd been through my regular doctor AND a podiatrist, had
orthotics and several other treatments, when I changed primary care
physicians to a Family Practice MD who was ALSO a certified homeopath.  
The treatment that worked for me was a homeopathic one:  specifically,
Rhus Tox, if memory serves (it's made from the poison ivy plant.)  
However, homeopathic remedies are highly individual:  one of the reasons
the doctor thought that one was the best for me, for example, is that I
have an extremely bad reaction to poison ivy.  Once in a blue moon, my
heel will still start to hurt just a little, but as long as I keep
wearing Birkenstocks (the only shoes I wear these days) it goes away
quickly.  (Once in a while, I put on good sneakers for something -- but
I can't wear them for very long without my knee starting to hurt.)

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I actually believe in homeopathy --
but for this and a few other things, it WORKED, and I never knock
success.

If I am ever able to find another MD who is also a homeopath, I will
probably go back to seeing someone like that.  I think that was some of
the best medical treatment I got.
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Sidheag McCormack - 02 Jan 2006 23:22 GMT
Dragonlady  writes:

> To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I actually believe in homeopathy --
> but for this and a few other things, it WORKED, and I never knock
> success.

Indeed! However, maybe you have to have a certain level of acceptance to
even try something: for me homeopathy is just *so* implausible that I can't
see myself spending time and money on it, even in the presence of an
ongoing problem. (Not that the PF is, really - but it does stop me doing
things like going walking in such a way as to *have* to walk many miles to
get back, with no possibility of bailing out if my foot picks that day to
get bad.)

I did let my physio do acupuncture on me a few times; he said he reckoned
that worked best on people who didn't believe it was going to! However, it
didn't help me, and not sure I'd try it again.

The single best thing for my PF is the wooden rolling pin I keep under the
bed for rolling my foot on if it starts to play up. That and calf stretches
usually sort it out reasonably quickly when it comes back these days. I am
also very careful about what shoes I wear.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
dragonlady - 02 Jan 2006 23:26 GMT
> Dragonlady  writes:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> see myself spending time and money on it, even in the presence of an
> ongoing problem.

It helped that this guy was ALSO a board certified family practice MD:  
I knew for certain that nothing he'd suggest would hurt me, and was
willing to try just about anything by then, since none of the other
things had worked.  Since he WAS an MD, this was covered by my insurance.

As I said, for several problems people in the family had, homeopathy
helped.

This was an odd clinic:  they had several MDs, but also a massage
therapist and and acupuncturist and several other so-called alternative
medicine practitioners.  He referred DH for acupuncture for two
problems:  one was chronic pain in a shoulder he'd dislocated several
years earlier, the other for mild high blood pressure.  His shoulder
stopped bothering him, and his blood pressure went down.

What can I say?  We moved away, and I haven't found a similar clinic
here in California, which surprised me -- here, the alternative folks
seem well distanced from the MD's.  And, if I have to choose one or the
other, for now, at least, I stick to mainstream medicine.

>(Not that the PF is, really - but it does stop me doing
> things like going walking in such a way as to *have* to walk many miles to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> DS Colin Oct 27 2003
>
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enigma - 02 Jan 2006 13:49 GMT
>>  if you put yours in strollers or even a wagaon, i bet
>>  you'd
>> get stares! :)
>
> At 20 and almost 16, you betcha!  :)

i remembered they were at least teen age. i didn't realize
the older was 20 already :)

>> > Out of curiosity, what faires do y'all do?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> into the schedule because it's such a shopper's paradise!
> <g>

i'm in NH. Maryland is a bit out of range, but i've heard
great things about it.
is there just one Faire in PA? quite a few of the Sterling
regulars got to a PA faire, but i didn't think it was PARF. i
consider Sterling my 'home faire', even though i started out
working at KRF in Carver.
Tux is closer to us than Sterling, but we don't have
relatives near there (although Grandma is selling her summer
home in Sodus Point, so we won't have a place close to
Sterling either unless i buy the faire or buy another farm in
that area...)
i've heard nothing bad about the CT faire. i really want to
get down there. now that Boo is 5, he travels much better & he
copes with out-of-routine things better (he's somewhere on the
autistic spectrum, but very high fuctioning).

> My almost 16 year old is bugging me to do one of the
> Florida shows -- the Pirate fest in Key West, at the very
> least.  All it takes is time and money......  ;)

when is the Pirate Fest? my parents are bugging us to come
visit them in FL & we could drag them to a Faire... they live
near Tampa/St.Pete & i think there's a faire there too,
sometime in the winter?

lee
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freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

LAdezio@gmail.com - 03 Jan 2006 05:05 GMT
> >>  if you put yours in strollers or even a wagaon, i bet
> >>  you'd
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>  i remembered they were at least teen age. i didn't realize
> the older was 20 already :)

He just turned 20 last month.  (Understand that I am in complete denial
about being old enough to have a 20 year old, y'understand... <g>).  YS
turns 16 next month.  Oy.

> >> > Out of curiosity, what faires do y'all do?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>  i'm in NH. Maryland is a bit out of range, but i've heard
> great things about it.

Maryland is *beautiful*.  Hilly, like Sterling, but it's in this
heavily wooded area that really makes you feel like you're in a village
in the middle of a forest.  Some of the best garb shopping
around...great pubs (including steamers, oyster shooters and shrimp), a
wide selection of really good, reasonably priced food and lots of fun
entertainment.  Lots of activities for kids, too.

>  is there just one Faire in PA? quite a few of the Sterling
> regulars got to a PA faire, but i didn't think it was PARF.

There is a faire in the Pittsburgh area, and a fairly new one near
Scranton called Endless Mountains, but that one's just gone to a few
weekends and is still fairly small.  There's a few single weekend
'faires' (ones run by groups like Lions' Club and whatnot and are more
'faire-ish' than real Faires....) around.

i
> consider Sterling my 'home faire', even though i started out
> working at KRF in Carver.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Sterling either unless i buy the faire or buy another farm in
> that area...)

When we go to Tux, we stay at the Homewood Suites in Mahwah, NJ.  I can
usually get a one bedroom suite (with a pullout sofa)..and if
necessary, a rollaway will fit, so you can get 5 in there easily, for
$99.00 per night, which includes full breakfast buffet in the mornings.
Full small kitchen and grills in the pool area.  Full size washer and
dryer, which is perfect for rainy days when you need to get mud out of
garb.  With breakfast, it's a pretty good deal...and it's only about 15
minutes or so from site.  At minimum, we go opening weekend, Labor Day
weekend and my birthday weekend (usually the weekend after Labor Day,
since my birthday's the 11th).  The rest of the season's pretty much
reserved for PARF -- since it's only about an hour from my house, we
'commute' back and forth.

>  i've heard nothing bad about the CT faire. i really want to
> get down there. now that Boo is 5, he travels much better & he
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> near Tampa/St.Pete & i think there's a faire there too,
> sometime in the winter?

I think Pirate Fest is in November, but don't quote me on it.  BARF
(which, IIRC, is in the Tampa area -- Bay Area Renaissance Faire) runs
in February and March, but I don't know the exact dates.

Leah
dragonlady - 31 Dec 2005 16:21 GMT
> > We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> > few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> -L.

Not "required" -- just handy.

Heck, if you look at it from some perspectives, a stroller is NEVER
"necessary"  -- some folks never use them at all -- they are a
convenience.  And in some families, and in some circumstaces, it
continues to be convenient to use a stroller well past the age of 5.
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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

toto - 01 Jan 2006 00:58 GMT
>Heck, if you look at it from some perspectives, a stroller is NEVER
>"necessary"  -- some folks never use them at all -- they are a
>convenience.

With my own kids, I used a backpack until they were around 3.
Both my kids were light weight though.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
-L. - 01 Jan 2006 18:50 GMT
> Not "required" -- just handy.
>
> Heck, if you look at it from some perspectives, a stroller is NEVER
> "necessary"  -- some folks never use them at all -- they are a
> convenience.  And in some families, and in some circumstaces, it
> continues to be convenient to use a stroller well past the age of 5.

Kids generally can't walk distances until 4 or 5 though, that's what I
was getting at.  A 5 year old can be expected to walk, with breaks, on
an excursion for 4 hours or so.  

-L.
postfromjan@mailinator.com - 31 Dec 2005 18:07 GMT
> Until the child is able and willing to respond to verbal commands which
> are mandatory for safety.  For some this occurs early - 2ish, for
> others not until 4 or 5 ish.  Anything over 5, I'd  think it would be
> unnecessary.  Or at least I can't think of any circumstance where a
> stroller would be required.

My 5-year-old occasionally rides in a jogging stroller while I jog. We
haven't come up with any other way for her to come with me. We tried
having her ride her bike or scooter, but she goes too fast for the
first 10 minutes and much too slow for the next 50 minutes.

Just wanted to point out a circumstance. :)

My 2 year old rides in an umbrella stroller for long walks but we never
bring it anywhere with us in the car or on trips.

Jan
dragonlady - 31 Dec 2005 08:39 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
> reasonable?

However old works for you and your family.

I know I used the twin stroller longer than I thought I would.  It was
sometimes a place for the kids to sleep, and a place for them to ride
when they were too tired to walk (and I couldn't carry them both).  It
was certainly safer than trying to hang onto three kids (the two of them
and their sister).

I also know at least one family with a child with some physical
challenges who use the stroller on days when things just may be too much
for him;  it's an oversize stroller, and he's about 8 and sometimes gets
some weird looks.  But you never know what it is you are looking at --
you may be seeing a child who doesn't require a wheel chair, but has
some condition that makes what you might think of as "normal" physical
activity just too difficult.

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Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

enigma - 31 Dec 2005 12:48 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and
> I saw quite a few children who looked to be school aged
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> pushing a child who is that big and heavy. So, for those of
> you with older kids, how old is reasonable?

depends on the child & the parent, oh, and the weight limit
of the stroller.
i never used a stroller with my son, but at 5 he still wants
to be carried everywhere. i can see where having a stroller
would be a LOT easier than carrying him (and he's only 37
pounds. lots of 5 year olds are heavier).
i do have a backpack which still fits him as far as weight,
but at 5 he *does* want to be up & down, able to run over &
look at something more closely, etc., so the backpack is
pretty worthless. taking it on & off every 2 minutes is a real
pain.
lee
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war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

Barbara - 02 Jan 2006 02:38 GMT
SNIP
>  depends on the child & the parent, oh, and the weight limit
> of the stroller.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> pain.
> lee

Have I mentioned that I envy those of you with smaller kids?  One also
preferred being carried to the stroller, but without checking the Baby
Book, I'd guess he was Boo's weight by age 2.  Long distance carrying
wasn't for us much past that age!

We wound up buying a jogging stroller after our big, workhorse stroller
died, and One was over the weight limits for most regular strollers
anyway.  At the time, our sitter enjoyed walking about 1-1/2 miles with
him (and other kids and sitters) to a local nature center, where the
kids ran around and played for a few hours about once a week.  Walking
there, yes.  Walking back  -- just wasn't happening!  We also used it
when we were walking places where there was a good chance of him
falling asleep (eg, Friday evening services during the summer -- I just
wasn't up to carrying a 40-something (or more) pound sleeping kid 3/4
mile).

As my name says, I only have one kid.  But I DO see a lot of older kids
climbing into their sibs' strollers for a break when they're tired, or
just because it somehow seems like fun to them.  Maybe the OP was
seeing some of that as well.  Otherwise .... it just plain old doesn't
bother me to see older kids in strollers.  YMMV

Barbara
Ericka Kammerer - 31 Dec 2005 14:16 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
> reasonable?

    I think it depends on your kid and what you're doing.
Are you sure these kids were school-aged?  There are a lot of
big preschoolers out there.  Some may have brought a stroller
as much as a cart for stuff as for transporting the child.
(Hey, I missed my stroller for shopping long after the kids
didn't need it anymore.)  Or maybe they were out for a long
day of walking and at some point the kids would be unable to
walk anymore.  (It may be tough to push a bigger kid in a
stroller, but it might be even harder to carry them.)
Or maybe they still needed a bit of a nap in the afternoon
and the stroller afforded them the opportunity to do that
when the time came.
    At any rate, I don't think there's any age that's
unreasonable.  The only thing I think is unreasonable is
keeping a child strapped in all the time in order to keep
them out of trouble when the kid obviously needs to get
in some running around.

Best wishes,
Ericka
Banty - 31 Dec 2005 14:16 GMT
>We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
>few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
>reasonable?

I used a stroller with my son until he was about five, for things like theme
parks and fairs.  Of course he was able to get up and run around, the question
is - can he walk around the whole time.

A good stroller can carry a larger child and wheel easily.  They're also good
for packages  ;)

I can understand some beefs about it, though - a lot of strollers clog things
up and not every stroller-driver seems able to detect the positions of nearby
tender heels!

Banty
Anonymama - 31 Dec 2005 17:18 GMT
> So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
> reasonable?

My tall three-year-old still rides in one. When we go for walks we take
it along, and he can climb in if he gets tired or we're in a hurry. We
also have a jogging stroller that he'll be using as long as he fits in
it.
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Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006

Quoting, for users of Google Groups:
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=14213&topic=250

Sidheag McCormack - 31 Dec 2005 17:48 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite
> a few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> child who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids,
> how old is reasonable?

Are you sure it isn't just that kids older than yours look huge? Mine is
2y2m, has been able to climb in and out of his pushchair and run around for
quite a long time, but still definitely needs it because he can't walk *far
enough* to do without it. IOW, climbing in and out and running around
definitely isn't proof that there isn't a physical need for it! In fact we
need it more now than when he was younger, because he's too heavy for me to
carry (with or without a sling) for very far. We do short outings without
it, but there's always the risk that he'll have had enough - and if he's
not willing to walk, my choices are wait or carry him... My expectation is
that we'll use it less and less over the next 6 months or so, but will
probably still own it for occasional use this time next year.

I think the most difficult time for managing Colin plus the pushchair was
actually around the time he was beginning to walk, because he was heavy
enough for it to be difficult but still, he needed to be carried on buses
etc. when I was also trying to carry the pushchair. These days provided I
lift him up the big step he can walk along the bus, climb onto a seat, etc.
by himself which is a *big* help.

Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 31 Dec 2005 21:03 GMT
I have three kids, now all long out of the stroller phase. I used a
stroller into the kindergarten years - at least to age 5.

What I found was that when you go anywhere on foot with a toddler or
preschooler you have two problems.

One is all the junk you end up carrying with you - the snacks and
drinks, the jackets and hats, your purse, the handiwipes, maybe
diapers, toys, the quart of milk and loaf of bread you picked up, lord
knows what else. The stroller was a great place to stash all that - I
had a heavy duty one with big knobby tires so it could handle uneven
terrain and get pushed across the lawn at the park etc. It also had
space underneath it to carry cargo.

The second problem you have is that into those years, kids get tired.
They get cranky. They don't want to walk. They want you to carry them.
They pitch a fit, go all floppy, refuse to move.  I dunno about you and
your back, but I can't carry 40 pounds of kid home from the park 5
blocks, as well as the sandtoys and the other junk, plus hold another
kid or two by the hand.  I also didn't like having to cut short my
shopping, our visit to the zoo or the amusement park or the county fair
because a young child gets tired of walking. As long as a kid would fit
into a stroller, it was a godsend!

We took our family to Disney World in 2003, our youngest was 5, the
middle one was 9 and the oldest was not quite 12. We rented a stroller
there, and it was a very smart thing to do. Not only did it mean we
didn't have to lug all kinds of junk in our arms, on our backs etc. but
there is a LOT of walking there, and the 5 year old really would not
have survived if she couldn't have ridden a lot of the time. I think
we'd have been there two hours, and she'd have been ready for a nap,
miserable etc. and we'd have had to go back to hotel. The kind of
strollers they have for rent the 9 year old could fit into (he was very
slight and skinny) and we were constantly having to tell him to get out
of it, it was for his little sister! He would have been quite happy to
have been pushed around.

Mary G.
cara - 01 Jan 2006 01:13 GMT
> We just got back from our winter vacation to San Diego, and I saw quite a
> few children who looked to be school aged still being pushed around in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> who is that big and heavy. So, for those of you with older kids, how old is
> reasonable?

Depends on the situation - my 5 year old rarely uses a stroller, but
when we did disney world last summer she was in and out of it.
Sometimes if we walk to the park the 2 girls (ages 2 and 5) double up in
the (single) jogger for breaks. I've never used a big lugging heavy
stroller, though, once the kidlet is big enough, its straight into a
nice easy to push/steer small stroller - we got a hand me down maclaren
that is *heavenly*!!!

cara
Akuvikate - 02 Jan 2006 22:55 GMT
We use ours seldom enough now that we probably won't be using it much
by then.  However apart from the distance that many have mentioned, I'd
like to second the efficiency aspect that a few have pointed out.  I
sometimes walk to pick the 2 1/2 year old Bug up from preschool.  It's
a 20 minute walk by myself, 45 minutes to an hour coming back with her
just because there are so many interesting and wonderful things to stop
and look at and touch and do on the way home.  At times I need to go
out and run a few errands efficiently without having to keep her little
hands off of everything.  That's when the stroller (or sling) is
indispensible.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 2 and 1/2
 
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