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Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / January 2006



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Senior-itis?

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Zipadee - 30 Jan 2006 20:38 GMT
I realize most people here have much younger kids but maybe some
of you have advice about my daughter, a high school senior.

DD turns 18 next month. She has already been accepted to a good
college.She seems to be slacking off a lot in her school work. All
along she has been a very good student. She would keep track
of her  schoolwork and get it done on time. I haven't been involved
in making her do homework ever. I would help when requested but
didn't check it over or get into details. And that was fine.

I can't decide if I should continue to let her deal with it herself,
suffering any drops in grades that result, or if I should get more
involved and insist that she cut back on some of her outside
activities so she has the time to do the schoolwork and also
sit with her at times and help her make a schedule to get things
done even if she doesn't like them.

She seems stressed over the issue to me. Most of the time, if I
ask her if she has enough time to do her homework, she gets
all defensive and yells and says she does. This morning she said
she didn't feel well so I let her stay home and sleep. When I spoke
to her mid-day she was doing schoolwork.

She did go to her part-time job (which she says by her choice
and not because I made her) and before she left she told me
she had gotten a call from someone at school telling her about
more work she had to do.I think she's feeling both overwhelmed
yet uninterested in doing the work.

Suggestions from anyone who has been through this either
as the parent or the teen would be helpful. (I didn't slack off
in high school as a senior, I was too much of a goody-goody.)
I find it hard to talk to her because she interprets
ANYTHING I say as criticism no matter how helpful I try to be.

-- Zip
bizby40 - 30 Jan 2006 21:36 GMT
>I realize most people here have much younger kids but maybe some
> of you have advice about my daughter, a high school senior.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> sit with her at times and help her make a schedule to get things
> done even if she doesn't like them.

What would the consequences be?  Sometimes acceptance
to college is dependant on maintaining a certain grade point
average.  You might want to check that out.

Also, how low are they dropping?  Is she in any danger of
not graduating?

If the answers to the above are that her college acceptance
is safe and she's not in danger of failing, I'd probably just
stay out of it.

Bizby
Cathy Kearns - 30 Jan 2006 21:53 GMT
> I realize most people here have much younger kids but maybe some
>  of you have advice about my daughter, a high school senior.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> I find it hard to talk to her because she interprets
> ANYTHING I say as criticism no matter how helpful I try to be.

Last year my niece graduated from high school.  She was accepted to a state
college in April of her senior year. Given her grades her last semester they
withdrew her acceptance.  She is now doing junior college part time while
working retail.  She is a very smart girl, but it's hard to dig out after
getting accepted and rejected.
sascherb@juno.com - 30 Jan 2006 22:18 GMT
I think that a certain amount of "letting it slide" occurs in the last
semester of high school.  It can be perfectly normal.  When I was in
high school we would joke about "the senior slide" anytime someone got
an undesirable grade.
That being said, if you think that your daughter is stressed about
school it could be something more.  Is it possible that she is feeling
overwhelmed by the changes ahead?  The thought of leaving high school
friends and life behind for the "grown up" world of college can be
terrifying.  This is especially true for kids who aren't extremely
outgoing, or who aren't completely sure of what career path they want
to follow.   You can try asking her how she's feeling stressed or
nervous WITHOUT bringing up homework.  That way you aren't criticizing.
Or it might just be that she is feeling strapped for time with a job
and extracurricular activities.    If that is the case, I wouldn't
force her to quit anything, she's bound to resent you if you do.  You
might suggest she cuts back on some activities, and praise her for
making a mature decision if she does, but remember this is the age of
"I'm almost 18!  You can't tell me what to do!", and as long as her
grades don't slide too much, I don't think you should interfere.
Now you can take my advice with a grain of salt because I don't have
kids this age, but I do have a brother is a senior in high school, and
I was a senior a mere eight years ago.

Sarah
Zipadee - 31 Jan 2006 02:27 GMT
> Last year my niece graduated from high school.  She was accepted to a state
> college in April of her senior year. Given her grades her last semester they
> withdrew her acceptance.  She is now doing junior college part time while
> working retail.  She is a very smart girl, but it's hard to dig out after
> getting accepted and rejected.

Wow. How much did her grades slide that they rejected her?

My daughter and I talked tonight. Managed most of the conversation
reasonably without her yelling. I said if she was finding that she
didn't
have enough time to get schoolwork done that she should decide to
cut back on either the part-time job or the social activities and that,

for now, I would leave that decision to her. If things really get to be
a
problem, the decision won't be hers...

-- Zip
Ericka Kammerer - 31 Jan 2006 02:43 GMT
>>Last year my niece graduated from high school.  She was accepted to a state
>>college in April of her senior year. Given her grades her last semester they
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Wow. How much did her grades slide that they rejected her?

    Different colleges have a different criteria,
but it probably says in her admission offer that her
offier is contingent upon submission of her final grades.
Some large percentage of college applicants have A
averages.  If her grades essentially drop below the
grades of the accepted students pool, she's definitely
in danger of having her offer withdrawn.

Best wishes,
Ericka
Cathy Kearns - 31 Jan 2006 03:52 GMT
> Wow. How much did her grades slide that they rejected her?

She got a "D" in one class.

One of our friends tell the story of his son getting into his east coast
prestigious alma mater.  Then he got a bad case of senioritis and his grades
slacked off (but not as low as Ds).  The alma mater pulled their acceptance
despite his father's alumni status, donor status, and doctorial thesis board
membership.

The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
too much, and they were no longer welcome.  It's devestating because at this
point there is no backup plan. This is one of those things that seems to
have gotten more strict since I went to college.
dragonlady - 31 Jan 2006 04:36 GMT
> > Wow. How much did her grades slide that they rejected her?
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> point there is no backup plan. This is one of those things that seems to
> have gotten more strict since I went to college.

It can be even worse than just this:  when my brother applied to
graduate schools, one that turned him down said it was because his
grades had seriously dropped his senior year in high school -- that in
spite of his undergrad record.

It's worth knowing.

Signature

Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

eliz_reid@yahoo.com - 31 Jan 2006 17:12 GMT
> The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
> summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
> too much, and they were no longer welcome.  It's devestating because at this
> point there is no backup plan. This is one of those things that seems to
> have gotten more strict since I went to college.

Eek.

Just out of curiosity, what's the rationale for this?  If the kid has
gotten good grades for all of high school, clearly they can do the work
and the problem is senioritis... so why withdraw admission?  

Beth
dragonlady - 31 Jan 2006 17:23 GMT
> > The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
> > summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Beth

According to the letter my brother got (from a first tier graduate
school) his dropped grades in his senior year of high school indicated a
willingness to quit trying when the end was near.  There was also
something in the letter about not being devoted to learning for the sake
of learning, but rather studying for the sake of grades.

Personally, I think it's wrong, but then, I'm not at a top college
looking for ways to differentiate between the many, many applicants who
qualify to get in.  If there are tens of qualified applicants for every
available slot -- and that's a conservative estimate! -- using this one
additional piece of information makes some sense.  By withdrawing this
admission, I suppose they can offer admission to someone else who didn't
give up on studying during their senior year.

(I also never suffered from "senioritis", and none of my kids got good
enough grades to get into a top tier college, so this has never been
personal for ME.)

Signature

Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Banty - 31 Jan 2006 18:21 GMT
>> The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
>> summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>gotten good grades for all of high school, clearly they can do the work
>and the problem is senioritis... so why withdraw admission?  

Maybe it correlates pretty well with difficulties in college.

Banty
eliz_reid@yahoo.com - 31 Jan 2006 19:05 GMT
> >> The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
> >> summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Maybe it correlates pretty well with difficulties in college.

If true, that would make a certain amount of sense.

Beth
Ericka Kammerer - 31 Jan 2006 18:46 GMT
>>The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
>>summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> gotten good grades for all of high school, clearly they can do the work
> and the problem is senioritis... so why withdraw admission?  

    Because they see senioritis as a lack of commitment
that is inconsistent with what they expect out of their
students, who are supposed to be in it for learning's sake.

Best wishes,
Ericka
eliz_reid@yahoo.com - 31 Jan 2006 20:01 GMT
> >>The dean of admittance from UC Santa Cruz said every year they have to send
> >>summer letters to tons of students to tell them that their grades dropped
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> that is inconsistent with what they expect out of their
> students, who are supposed to be in it for learning's sake.

That just seems so harsh to me... I mean, I'm motivated by love of my
job to some extent, but I'm also motivated by the fact they pay me.  If
they stopped paying me, I'd be less motivated!  In my memory, an awful
lot of the work I did in high school had little to do with pure love of
learning and much more to do with needing to do it and get it done so I
could go to college, and after the 'payoff' had been received I
definitely got less interested, although I don't think my grades
dropped to any huge degree.

I guess I should be glad my university didn't know that.  :-)

Beth
Ericka Kammerer - 31 Jan 2006 23:31 GMT
>>    Because they see senioritis as a lack of commitment
>>that is inconsistent with what they expect out of their
>>students, who are supposed to be in it for learning's sake.
>
> That just seems so harsh to me... I mean, I'm motivated by love of my
> job to some extent, but I'm also motivated by the fact they pay me.

    Well, but when you've got a long list of applicants
who'd love to get in who aren't letting their grades slide,
it becomes a more challenging question.

Best wishes,
Ericka
toypup - 31 Jan 2006 03:07 GMT
> Suggestions from anyone who has been through this either
> as the parent or the teen would be helpful. (I didn't slack off
> in high school as a senior, I was too much of a goody-goody.)
> I find it hard to talk to her because she interprets
> ANYTHING I say as criticism no matter how helpful I try to be.

I had severe senioritis in high school.  My calculus class grades reflected
that.  I went from A's at the beginning of the quarter to F's at the end.
Luckily, that averaged out to a C and I passed.  My grades had been good
until then and I had already been accepted and the acceptance wasn't
withdrawn.  I agree with Bizby.  If the acceptance to college is not in
peril, stay out of it.
Rosalie B. - 31 Jan 2006 05:28 GMT
>> Suggestions from anyone who has been through this either
>> as the parent or the teen would be helpful. (I didn't slack off
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>withdrawn.  I agree with Bizby.  If the acceptance to college is not in
>peril, stay out of it.

My niece got senoritis, and her admission to a prestigious
Pennsylvania university was withdrawn and she ended up going to
Carnegie Mellon instead which was her second choice.  She had been a
really good student until then and I think it was her calculus grades
that dropped also.  This was particularly bad in her case because she
applied to the engineering school.

grandma Rosalie
Zipadee - 31 Jan 2006 15:52 GMT
> My niece got senoritis, and her admission to a prestigious
> Pennsylvania university was withdrawn and she ended up going to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> grandma Rosalie

Carnegie Mellon is still an excellent school. But by the time final
grades came out and her original first choice withdrew her
acceptance, wouldn't she have turned Carnegie Mellon down
as well as any other schools that had admitted her?

My daughter got into her first choice early decision so she
didn't apply elsewhere anyway.

I guess I'm going to need a lot of patience for the rest of this
school year!

I did put one restriction in place though. Her school has a
very flexible PE requirement and there are lots of ways to
fulfill it (PE class or a team sport or verifyable outside activities).

She does it by going to a gym at least twice a week. She hasn't
been doing so lately so I finally told her if she didn't get back to
doing that, possibly by reducing her work hours, then she was
going to have to do it Friday and Sat nights when she'd rather
be socializing. It IS a graduation requirement (and I
am paying for the gym) so she has to do it.

-- Zip
dragonlady - 31 Jan 2006 15:53 GMT
> Suggestions from anyone who has been through this either
> as the parent or the teen would be helpful. (I didn't slack off
> in high school as a senior, I was too much of a goody-goody.)
> I find it hard to talk to her because she interprets
> ANYTHING I say as criticism no matter how helpful I try to be.

Unless she really seems headed for self-destruct, since she's managed
herself so far, try to trust her to continue to manage herself.  If
things seem really bad, since she's not taking advice from you well
(which is pretty common at this age) you might see if you can get her to
sit down with someone else who is skilled at working with older
adolescents -- a few sessions with a therapist who works with
stress-reduction techniques might be helpful.

I'd add two things:

First, since she's viewing you as critical right now, as much as
possible, you might try to stick to only really affirming sorts of
statements.  Things like, "I know things are really stressful for you
right now -- but I have every confidence that you'll get through this."  
I know how hard it can be to do that -- but it's important.  (Of course,
there's always the chance that she'll just view that as more pressure.)  
As long as you let her know that you are available for help if she wants
it -- it may be that she just needs you to listen to her, in which case,
that's all you can do.  Under some circumstances, I've been known to ask
outright:  "Is there something I can do to help, or do you just need me
to listen to you right now?"  (And if the kid says, "I just need to
complain to someone," I accept that and just listen.)

Second, since she's already been admitted to a college, she's ALSO
getting ready to leave you.  It's pretty common for kids in this
position to start the process early, by fighting with their parents.  I
know my son was pretty difficult to get along with once he knew he'd be
leaving.  At a moment of calm -- when we were getting along -- I told
him that I knew part of his job was to make it easier for me to let him
go away by making himself hard to get along with, but that I wished he
weren't so good at it!  (This made him laugh -- you have to know exactly
what you can say to each kid.)  Then, whenever he started to fight with
me, I'd just remind myself (quietly) that he was just doing his job.  
And he eventually developed a sense of humor about the whole thing, as
well.

Signature

Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Zipadee - 31 Jan 2006 19:02 GMT
> Unless she really seems headed for self-destruct, since she's managed
> herself so far, try to trust her to continue to manage herself.  If
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> adolescents -- a few sessions with a therapist who works with
> stress-reduction techniques might be helpful.

She actually asked a few weeks ago if she could talk to a therapist.
I found her one, we managed to find a time she could go, and she
went. She decided not to continue - said talking about things
made her feel worse. I offered to find her a different therapist if she
didn't like that one but she wasn't interested.

> First, since she's viewing you as critical right now, as much as
> possible, you might try to stick to only really affirming sorts of
> statements.  Things like, "I know things are really stressful for you
> right now -- but I have every confidence that you'll get through this."
> I know how hard it can be to do that -- but it's important.  (Of course,
> there's always the chance that she'll just view that as more pressure.)

Good idea. I'll try that.

> As long as you let her know that you are available for help if she wants
> it -- it may be that she just needs you to listen to her, in which case,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> know my son was pretty difficult to get along with once he knew he'd be
> leaving.

Oh this kind of thing (independent from the schoolwork issue) has been
going on for awhile now and I recognize that. That's what
it is when she flies off the handle if I request that she clean up
after herself in the kitchen. I know that one job high school seniors
have is making their parents glad (or, at least, not too sad) that
they will be leaving.

-- Zip
 
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