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Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / February 2006Cloth Diaper questions
I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ I'm going a little bonkers trying to get this figured out. If I convince dh I'll go the prefold route with covers. I want to get some Velcro covers, mostly for dh. Proraps seem to be a middle of the road price and get good reviews. I will live with pins and pull-up pant style covers ;-) Questions: Do Proraps really hold the diaper in place without pins? The Bummis Whisper Pant pulls up and looks higher quality but is it really worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest possible nylon pants that are more similar to what our mom's used? How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use them with each diaper? Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold diaper and cover? How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a few things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the whole shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come back and order again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me as a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free shipping.  SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 Oh my. Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry you're going to have to do or will you send them out? SignatureSue (mom to three girls) > I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me as > a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free shipping. > Oh my. > Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry > you're going to have to do or will you send them out? No...and yes the laundry is a little intimidating - to say the least! I'm sure I'll have to do a load every day. This will be a shock to my system as I do all my laundry on the weekends now. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > > Oh my. > > Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sure I'll have to do a load every day. This will be a shock to my system as > I do all my laundry on the weekends now. It's not a big deal. Seriously. I did 2-4 extra loads per week for DS. That was it! The biggest drag is having to wash the diapers multiple times - many times I would forget about them and I'd have a load waiting for its second wash. Once you get into the routine, it's a no-brainer. -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > It's not a big deal. Seriously. I did 2-4 extra loads per week for > DS. That was it! You have one child. She is having twins, plus she has two other boys, herself and her husband. That's nothing to sneeze at. Plus she will be working. SignatureSue (mom to three girls) > "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > It's not a big deal. Seriously. I did 2-4 extra loads per week for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Sue (mom to three girls) Ok, so you add an extra load or two for the second twin - big deal. And AFAIC, any kid over 10 and DH certainly can do their own laundry. -L. > > "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > > It's not a big deal. Seriously. I did 2-4 extra loads per week for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > And AFAIC, any kid over 10 and DH certainly can do their own laundry. > -L. It is when you add it on top of all the OTHER stuff you're doing twice! And her other two aren't over 10. The extra sleep deprivation alone is a killer -- I didn't wash my own diapers, and STILL felt like I could never get on top of all the laundry with a 3 yo and infant twins. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > Ok, so you add an extra load or two for the second twin - big deal. Again, Nikki has two other boys, a husband, herself, and soon-to-be twins. It's not adding an extra load of laundry. It may not be a big deal to you, but it would to me because I hate laundry. Everyone has their thing that they hate to do and this one is mine, so my views on it wil be skewed. > And AFAIC, any kid over 10 and DH certainly can do their own laundry. Her boys are 6 and 4, really not ready to be doing laundry on their own. Her husband definitely could help, but he works so will not be home part of the day. SignatureSue (mom to three girls) > It's not a big deal. Seriously. I did 2-4 extra loads per week for > DS. That was it! The biggest drag is having to wash the diapers > multiple times - many times I would forget about them and I'd have a > load waiting for its second wash. Once you get into the routine, it's > a no-brainer. Nikki is pregnant with twins and has two older boys. I know what Sue was thinking when she mentioned the laundry! JennP. >> > Oh my. >> > Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -L. Mine are out of diapers. We did disposable back when we lived with city pipes. We started with cloth, DS got a massive rash. We went back to cloth and my DH looked at me with exhausted eyes on change number a gazillion "Why are we doing this again?" Since I had not slept in a while, I could not remember. I would not choose cloth now with a septic though. Anyway, there is no real point to this little trip down memory lane. My sister did cloth with her twins with no problem except the funny looks and comments from her in-laws. "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message > No...and yes the laundry is a little intimidating - to say the least! I'm > sure I'll have to do a load every day. This will be a shock to my system as > I do all my laundry on the weekends now. I'll say it will be intimidating. I'm so buried in laundry all the time now, the thought of purposely adding more to my load is definitely not appealing. However, I can sympathize with your need to save money. I wonder though, if there is really a saving with having to do the extra wash, cost of water, detergent, fabric softener (if you use it), bleach, and your time with two babies instead of one. Something to think about anyway. SignatureSue (mom to three girls) > "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message >> No...and yes the laundry is a little intimidating - to say [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it), bleach, and your time with two babies instead of one. > Something to think about anyway. ack! no bleach! *never* use fabric softener on diapers! (it makes them less absorbant. don't use it on towels either) ho often you do diapers depends on how many you start with & how big your washer (or diaper pail) is. i did diapers twice a week, otherwise i started getting mildew in the diaper pail <ew!> lee Signaturewar is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength 1984-George Orwell > "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message >> No...and yes the laundry is a little intimidating - to say the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > you use it), bleach, and your time with two babies instead of one. > Something to think about anyway. I'm hoping that I will be able to wash them in the evening and dh will be able to throw them in the dryer later that night. The whole job thing is up in the air but he hopes to be working 2-11pm. He could put them in the dryer when he gets home. I don't do any laundry during the week right now unless it is bedding or coats or something. Dh usually does one load of his things. I do the rest on the weekends. I did try to figure out the savings given all the variables (I don't know how much it costs to dry a load though) and I think it will be substantial. It is my time that is going to be in very short supply. Our laundry is in the basement, our bathroom/bedrooms on a second level. The good news is that it is a decent basement (not a horrible unfinished dungeon like my old one ;-) but it definitely makes doing a load of laundry a little more then a 5 minute job, especially if lugging around two babies :-) I really wish we could get a washer/dryer on our second level, with the bedrooms/bathroom. I keep getting stressed out because it seems that I don't sit down from 7am-9pm as it is. How will I manage with two babies! I keep reminding myself that if all my time is used up now, it can't get any worse. Of course it *can* and *will* because I'll need to be up so much at night but that isn't forever...only feels like it ;-) I may be a little more hard hearted this time around though too, lol. I haven't talked to Steve about it yet. He'll hate the idea. I wanted all the numbers in order and my plan laid out first. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message >I did try to figure out the savings given all the variables (I don't know how >much it costs to dry a load though) and I think it will be substantial. Also consider how much your water bill will increase. My water bill right now with five people in the house is $100 a month, $1200+ a year. With raising of energy and electricity, it is also better to include those numbers too. Although, like you, I don't know how to calculate single usage of electricity. You might need to keep track of the gas and electric and see if there is a huge increase. If you have a gas dryer, that's cheaper, but I have an electric dryer, so it's more expensive for me to run the dern thing. I also used to do laundry on the weekends, mostly all day on Sundays. I have found that it is easier and keeps me more sane to do 3-4 complete loads a day instead of taking an entire day to do them. Also, unless you plan to really stock up on diapers, you're not going to be able to do laundry only on the weekends. Our washer/dryer is in the basement and since I have started working in the basement, I am finding that the laundry is about the only thing I can stay on top of now since I am right there, lol. > I keep getting stressed out because it seems that I don't sit down from > 7am-9pm as it is. How will I manage with two babies! I keep reminding > myself that if all my time is used up now, it can't get any worse. Of > course it *can* and *will* because I'll need to be up so much at night but > that isn't forever...only feels like it ;-) I may be a little more hard > hearted this time around though too, lol. Aww, well you will be busy, but I know you will get through it. You might need to be more on a routine/schedule, but that will come in time. My friend who had twins would feed the babies together at night even if one was asleep, she would wake them. They did this because she would have been up all night feeding if she didn't do it this way. This may or may not work for you, I have no idea, but I thought I would pass along a little piece of what worked for someone else. > I haven't talked to Steve about it yet. He'll hate the idea. I wanted all > the numbers in order and my plan laid out first. Yeh, anytime I want to change anything with our money, Joel needs to see the numbers also. Cloth diapers have changed so much that really they are not that bad, I just hate laundry so much that I wouldn't want the extra work. My views are definitely skewed though because I have three girls (as you know, lol) and they wear me out with all of the changing of clothes they do. They do their own now though, so it's a little better, but there is still a lot. Hang in there Nikki. I wish I lived closer so I could help you out. Will your aunt come this time? SignatureSue (mom to three girls) > Also consider how much your water bill will increase. My water bill > right now with five people in the house is $100 a month, We don't pay nearly what you do for water. Ours is 60/month but that includes sewer and garbage pick up. To get our bill to increase we have to tip the scales over the next 1000 gallons and we are a long ways from doing that. The electric dryer might be a different story though. I used to hang clothes on a line a lot but haven't since we moved to town, and of course don't in the winter time. Also, unless you plan to > really stock up on diapers, you're not going to be able to do laundry > only on the weekends. Can you imagine how many I'd have to have, lol. And the smell!! I think I would aim for a load of diapers a day and have enough so that I wouldn't have to have them out and put away each morning if you see what I mean. My friend who had twins would feed the babies together at night > even if one was asleep, she would wake them. They did this because > she would have been up all night feeding if she didn't do it this > way. I've heard this too! > Hang in there Nikki. I wish I lived closer so I could help you out. > Will your aunt come this time? Me too :-) My aunt can come down for as much as I need her in April and then we plan to have her down one week each month this summer. I might use one of those weeks and send the boys to her so they get a little bit of a vacation. They have never been gone that long but I think they would have fun. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message > >I did try to figure out the savings given all the variables (I don't know > how >much it costs to dry a load though) and I think it will be substantial. > > Also consider how much your water bill will increase. Washing diapers reasonably sensibly for one child uses the same or a lesser amount of water than one toilet trained child uses flushing. Power costs of a load of laundry, again with a reasonably efficient machine, are on the order of a few cents. Detergent - we use one third to one quarter of the "recommended" dose of detergent per load, so that added up to about one whole scoop per week, sometimes less. You just don't need to bleach and soak and scrub and rinse and wash and rinse again and again - that rigmarole wastes time and resources, it's a drowning hazard, and it's bad for the nappies. One five minute prewash for soileds, one normal wash cycle, hang out. Every time the numbers have been run in the past by entities other than Kimberley Clark and Proctor & Gamble and those they sponsor, the results come out financially vastly, vastly cheaper with reusable nappies. The difference narrows a little if you choose a large stash of new premium pocket or AIO nappies, but even then total costs are well under half the costs of single use nappies, even if you're only calculating for the first two years. And that's calculation is only using the cost of the single-use nappies themselves, not the single-use wipes or plastic bags or bin liners or gas for extra trips to the store ... If you're counting the hidden 'extras' on one side, be sure to count the other! One friend recently worked out, with her routine, that by not buying single-use nappies she was effectively being "paid" just over twenty dollars an hour for tossing on a load of laundry. Tax-free. (Bottom line for my family is - we use modern cloth for the health benefits, aesthetics, comfort, community, leakproofness, ease of use, and environmental benefits; more money in the pocket is just a nice side effect.) Lara Signaturewww.ozclothnappies.org www.modernnappies.org > > Oh my. > > Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sure I'll have to do a load every day. This will be a shock to my system as > I do all my laundry on the weekends now. If you can, look into the diaper service: at least where I lived, they gave "twin insurance": for a minimal fee, I could double a normal order. In the end, it was actually CHEAPER to use the service than it would have been to wash them at home (to say nothing of more convenient.) I loved-loved-loved the diaper service -- so much easier than even disposables, in my opinion -- we never had to go out to buy anything, no garbage to get rid of, it just magically appeared once a week. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > If you can, look into the diaper service: Ugh - I wish :-) There is no diaper service in my area :-P SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > > If you can, look into the diaper service: > > Ugh - I wish :-) There is no diaper service in my area :-P I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. FWIW, I had one freind who washed her own diapers with twins and maintained that the time she spent folding doapers out of the dryer was enjoyable and meditative. She said she really liked doing it while they were still warm, and always timed it for when the kids' Dad was home. She said there was just something soothing and relaxing about creating a huge pile of neatly folded white . . . SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > FWIW, I had one freind who washed her own diapers with twins and > maintained that the time she spent folding doapers out of the dryer > was enjoyable and meditative. She said she really liked doing it > while they were still warm, and always timed it for when the kids' > Dad was home. She said there was just something soothing and relaxing > about creating a huge pile of neatly folded white . . . Oh - great story :-) SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >> > Oh my. >> > Did you use cloth with the other boys? Do you realize all the laundry [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > order. In the end, it was actually CHEAPER to use the service than it > would have been to wash them at home (to say nothing of more convenient.) Someone told me that the chemicals used by diapers services are horrid for the environment, as bad as disposables in a landfill. I don't know if this is true, but it may be worth looking into. > I loved-loved-loved the diaper service -- so much easier than even > disposables, in my opinion -- we never had to go out to buy anything, > no garbage to get rid of, it just magically appeared once a week. > Someone told me that the chemicals used by diapers services are horrid for > the environment, as bad as disposables in a landfill. I don't know if this > is true, but it may be worth looking into. I don't think it's true -- in fact, one advantage of diaper service washing is that they *do* do the waste disposal properly (that is, to the sewers), which hardly any disposable diaper users do. Yes, *some* people dump stools in the toilet from disposable diapers, but not that many folks, and it's nearly impossible to do with runny stools anyway. What about hiring someone to come in and do laundry? I would think a responsible twelve-year-old could handle that for a small sum -- you could do the part with putting the diapers in the wash, if the kid or his/her mother felt icky about that part, and the kid could get them in the dryer and do the other loads of clothes. Or you could hire the kid as a sort of mother's helper for a few hours a week, and the laundry could just be part of it. Of course an older person could do it too, I just figured a kid would be cheaper and get some valuable babytending experience under your eye. --Helen S. >> Someone told me that the chemicals used by diapers services are horrid >> for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > people dump stools in the toilet from disposable diapers, but not that > many folks, and it's nearly impossible to do with runny stools anyway. The problem with disposables is not so much the stool as the gel. And I would not think that chemicals in the sewer is any environmental blessing. > What about hiring someone to come in and do laundry? I would think a > responsible twelve-year-old could handle that for a small sum -- you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > --Helen S. > "> > > The problem with disposables is not so much the stool as the gel. And I > would not think that chemicals in the sewer is any environmental blessing. The only "chemicals" the diaper services use are the same ones people use in laundry anyway (biodegradable detergents), and they're presumably able to use water more efficiently. I can't see that there's any greater environmental impact than you get from using reusable clothes instead of disposable ones, or china instead of paper plates, and I've never heard any reputable environmentalist say that you should do those things, except perhaps in an extreme drought situation. --Helen > I > just figured a kid would be cheaper and get some valuable babytending > experience under your eye. I did hire a "mom's helper" when my kids were babies: a pre-teen who came in for a few hours after school twice a week. When she turned 12, I paid to send her to a babysitting class. When she was in college (locally) she was still babysitting for me! So, for me, it worked out really, really well. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you guys choose that over disposable. I'm not asking rudely lol, I promise, to each her own I say, I'm just curious. :) My daughter is almost 2 and it looks like we will be working on potty training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another kid maybe it's something I'll think about. >Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth >diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you >guys choose that over disposable. I'm not asking rudely lol, I promise, >to each her own I say, I'm just curious. :) Where else can you "butt in" if you can't for a diaper question! ;-) >My daughter is almost 2 and it looks like we will be working on potty >training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another >kid maybe it's something I'll think about. I used disposable, too, ever-so-long-ago (he's 13). The washing of the diapers kind of offset the ecological advantages, or that was the information back then, so I went for disposables. Nothing against cloth diapers - curious what the arguments are now. Banty > Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth > diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you > guys choose that over disposable. I'm not asking rudely lol, I > promise, to each her own I say, I'm just curious. :) Cloth is much less costly, both financially and environmentally. In all other respects I found disposables vastly superior! Fewer and faster changes (especially on squirmy toddlers), fewer blowouts, fewer changes of top clothes, less laundering, no rashes because their bottoms were never really wet in a disposable, no need to change a very young infant during night feeds unless he'd pooped... I started out with cloth with my first children but by the time I had two in them it was very easy to make the transition to disposables and never look back - except when I examined the bottom line on our supermarket dockets! I think I put #3 in a few cloth nappies (some muslin as well as towelling) when he was less than a month old because he was born in high summer and was wearing pretty much only a nappy and singlet most of the time. I had mountains of laundry, anyway, so a few nappies made little difference. Other than that he was always in disposables and they were sooo convenient. > My daughter is almost 2 and it looks like we will be working on potty > training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another > kid maybe it's something I'll think about. Some people really love cloth and all power to 'em, I say. :) Tai > Cloth is much less costly, both financially and environmentally. In all > other respects I found disposables vastly superior! Fewer and faster changes > (especially on squirmy toddlers), Correct. > fewer blowouts, Never had a blow-out in cloth. > fewer changes of top > clothes, Not an issue. Very rarely even have a leak - in fact have had more leaks with our limited use of dispos. > less laundering, Yes, but diaper laundry isn't a big deal -at MOST 3 extra loads a week, and that's uncommon. > no rashes because their bottoms were never really > wet in a disposable, DS has never had a rash in cloth. >no need to change a very young infant during night > feeds unless he'd pooped... I'd change them anyway, so that point would be moot for us. I didn't realize people left their kids in peed diapers for multiple pees until recently. I don't regret using cloth what-so-ever. We have used dispos on planes (and briefly while waiting for an order of covers) and have had them leak terribly, but that's probably because we aren't using them right. I hate the things. As for why cloth - the studies which show an equal environmental impact between cloth and dispos were funded by the big diaper companies and do not take into account the resources used to produce dispos. The mfr. of plastic and synthetic fiber is *incredibly* water-intensive (moreso than producing cotton), and it produces a lot of non-recyclable waste. Besides that - do you really want your child's poop - which is an organic waste by-product, and can be easily handled by any municipal sewer system - to be entoumbed in plastic in a landfill, forever? The thought of little plastic-wrapped poop sausages in a landfill forever (think Diaper Genie) was enough to sway me away from dispos indefinitely. <shudder> -L. > > Cloth is much less costly, both financially and environmentally. In all > > other respects I found disposables vastly superior! Fewer and faster changes [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Never had a blow-out in cloth. Wow! You were lucky. All of mine had an occassional blow out, but DS only had a BM about once a week, from infancy on. I'm not sure there was anything on earth that would have prevented some of those from being blow outs . . . > > fewer changes of top > > clothes, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Yes, but diaper laundry isn't a big deal -at MOST 3 extra loads a week, > and that's uncommon. Depends on how much you hate doing laundry . . . > > no rashes because their bottoms were never really > > wet in a disposable, > > DS has never had a rash in cloth. One of mine did, but the diaper service just added a rinse to her diapers to change the pH, and the rash went away. On the other hand, my son (who has very sensitive skin) developed a rash whenever he had to be in disposables. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > > Never had a blow-out in cloth. > > Wow! You were lucky. All of mine had an occassional blow out, but DS > only had a BM about once a week, from infancy on. I'm not sure there > was anything on earth that would have prevented some of those from being > blow outs . . . May have been because he was FF and not BF. He tended to be constipated rather than loose, much of the time. I only remember one instance where he got poop on his clothing. <snip> > > DS has never had a rash in cloth. > > One of mine did, but the diaper service just added a rinse to her > diapers to change the pH, and the rash went away. On the other hand, my > son (who has very sensitive skin) developed a rash whenever he had to be > in disposables. A friend's daughter developed a wicked rash immediately after birth - they eventually tracked it down to the disposables, which even unscented, were too caustic for her. I kept telling her I'd lend her some cloth to see if the diapers were the problem - she just wouldn't try them, until finally, she had exhaused everything else. And lo and behold, a couple days in cloth and her DD was fine. Poor little thing. My DS has incredibly sensitive skin - had eczema from the time he was about 3 weeks old (which is now 99.9% gone). I wonder if dispos would have caused him problems, too. We both just liked the thought of cloth so much better than dispos, from long before he was even here, so for us, it was a natural choice. -L. > A friend's daughter developed a wicked rash immediately after birth - > they eventually tracked it down to the disposables, which even > unscented, were too caustic for her. I kept telling her I'd lend her > some cloth to see if the diapers were the problem - she just wouldn't > try them, until finally, she had exhaused everything else. And lo and > behold, a couple days in cloth and her DD was fine. Poor little thing. Sounds like my son. Bleeding diaper rash before we ever left the hospital with him. For a little while we were using up disposables while out, and cloth at home, and that's when we finally found the connection. One woman told me, "Cloth's too messy, I'd never use it!" I explained the allergy problem. "Well, just use cortisone!" So, a steroid that adults are supposed to use for no more than ten days at a time, put on the genitals of an infant multiple times a day, every day, for three years. Yeah, THAT's a FABULOUS idea. I had to chase my rolling eyeballs across the street. Michelle Flutist > > > Never had a blow-out in cloth. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > constipated rather than loose, much of the time. I only remember one > instance where he got poop on his clothing. Nope -- totally breast fed, and exclusively so until he started solids at 8 months. Just a kid who presented diaper bombs several times a month. I swear, there were times cleaning him up I think it would have been easier to just burn the clothes! > > > DS has never had a rash in cloth. > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > so much better than dispos, from long before he was even here, so for > us, it was a natural choice. The one of mine with eczema had problems whenever we had to put him in disposables for a short time, so it wouldn't surprise me. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > > May have been because he was FF and not BF. He tended to be > > constipated rather than loose, much of the time. I only remember one > > instance where he got poop on his clothing. > > Nope -- totally breast fed, and exclusively so until he started solids > at 8 months. Sorry, I meant that my DS was FF and so never had blow-outs. IIRC, BF babies tend to have looser stools. > Just a kid who presented diaper bombs several times a month. I swear, > there were times cleaning him up I think it would have been easier to > just burn the clothes! Humm...could it have been food allergy? I have noticed that if DS is allergic to a food, he will have a purge. Hasn't happened often, but the couple times it did happen, it was the same food. -L. > > > May have been because he was FF and not BF. He tended to be > > > constipated rather than loose, much of the time. I only remember one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sorry, I meant that my DS was FF and so never had blow-outs. IIRC, BF > babies tend to have looser stools. Right. > > Just a kid who presented diaper bombs several times a month. I swear, > > there were times cleaning him up I think it would have been easier to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > allergic to a food, he will have a purge. Hasn't happened often, but > the couple times it did happen, it was the same food. I don't think so -- as I said, this was his pattern from infancy on. For him, "regular" meant a BM every 4 to 7 days. He was never constipated, never had problems of any sort -- he just stored it up. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > Just a kid who presented diaper bombs several times a month. I swear, > there were times cleaning him up I think it would have been easier to > just burn the clothes! This reminds me of one of mine :-) I did actually throw away his clothes once. We were out. I can't even believe the mess he made. He must have been about 3mos old. I threw away his clothes, his blanket, used all my wipes, and most of their paper towels. I so needed a bathtub. Anyway, I cleaned everything up, tied up their garbage and immediately went to tell someone they needed to get in their and take their garbage out! It can be truly awe inspiring the amount that can come out of such a tiny thing ;-) He was a mess with poop, even as an older kid. I remember using dh's knife to cut off his jeans and underwear once in the back of the truck. Ugh. The other kid was less messy but went at least twice, some times three times a day until he was 4yo so I was equally glad when he finally trained. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >> Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth >> diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > other respects I found disposables vastly superior! Fewer and faster > changes (especially on squirmy toddlers), fewer blowouts, Actually, having used both, I found cloth keeps in blowouts much better-and #2 only went once a week, so they were majorly big too. I found that with washable you might get wee down the leg if you hadn't changed them in time, but disposables you got poo up the back (and sometimes down the leg) which I never had with cloth. fewer changes of top > clothes, Why? less laundering, no rashes because their bottoms were never really > wet in a disposable, #1 had nappy rash once-when we were on holiday and using disposables. #2 never had nappy rash. Both have sensitive skin, #2 has quite bad excema, although #1s is mild. I think that's a misconception a lot of people have. The sudocrem I got for #1 is hardly used. no need to change a very young infant during night > feeds unless he'd pooped... Neither of mine ever went at night after 2 months anyway. Another advantage can be that they potty train easier. #1 was easy-trained in 1 week at 22 months, and hardly had an accident after that. #2 harder-she took closer to 2 weeks at 2 years. And there's something very satisfying about seeing the line full of nappies...! Debbie >>> Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth >>> diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > changed them in time, but disposables you got poo up the back (and > sometimes down the leg) which I never had with cloth. Mine were skinny babies once they were past their newborn plumpness so I don't know if that made a difference to how likely they were to leak but all three had quite different bowel movement habits. Skin type, body shape, bowel habits, diet and maybe even the climate seem to influence how well each type of nappy works for a bub. With cloth, I always seemed to have a finger up their leg to check for dampness and changed them immediately. I had more leeway with disposables and they rarely got full enough to leak before they'd been changed. That mostly happened at night when they were ready to move up to the next size. > fewer changes of top >> clothes, > Why? I found that the wee was more likely to wick up the singlet or body suit and down the pants legs with cloth. > less laundering, no rashes because their bottoms were never really >> wet in a disposable, > #1 had nappy rash once-when we were on holiday and using disposables. > #2 never had nappy rash. Both have sensitive skin, #2 has quite bad > excema, although #1s is mild. I think that's a misconception a lot of > people have. The sudocrem I got for #1 is hardly used. I was writing of my experience with both kinds of nappies and why I preferred disposables and not suggesting everyone would have the same as mine. Some of my friends had rash problems with disposables and/or cloth or even with one particular brand of disposable. One of my sons has mild eczema but fortunately not in his nappy area. I rarely used creams - maybe some vaseline if it looked like one was having frequent runny bowel motions due to illness. We had a container of a zinc powder on hand to use if they looked slightly pink and that seemed to be sufficient. > no need to change a very young infant during night >> feeds unless he'd pooped... >> > Neither of mine ever went at night after 2 months anyway. Mine peed several times each night, asleep or awake, until they were 4, 7 and almost 5. They rarely had runny motions after two or three months old and it would usually peel off relatively easily with either kind of nappy unless we hadn't used a liner with cloth. > Another advantage can be that they potty train easier. #1 was > easy-trained in 1 week at 22 months, and hardly had an accident after > that. #2 harder-she took closer to 2 weeks at 2 years. All mine were in disposables by training stage (28 months, 28 months, 35 months) and it took a few days only but I agree that children are more likely to day train earlier in cloth nappies. They are so much more aware of the discomfort of being wet. My mother is quite convinced of this... ;) > And there's something very satisfying about seeing the line full of > nappies...! Oh yes...and they smell wonderfully of sunshine on cotton when you bring in those warm crispy armfuls of them! Tai > > And there's something very satisfying about seeing the line full of > > nappies...! > > Oh yes...and they smell wonderfully of sunshine on cotton when you bring in > those warm crispy armfuls of them! I sometimes wonder if I'd havc felt differently about washing diapers if I HAD been able to hang them outside. With #1, I lived in a third story apartment with no balcony or other place to hang stuff. With the twins, I lived in a condo with an absolute ban on hanging clothes outside to dry. (Seriously -- I got a nasty letter from the board when my kids draped wet towels over the porch rail to dry when they'd been out playing in a kiddie pool. A clothes rack on the patio would have been grounds for a stiff fine, as one neighbor discovered. Apparently having clothes drying outdoors makes the place look low class, don't you know...) SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care >> > And there's something very satisfying about seeing the line full of >> > nappies...! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > clothes drying outdoors makes the place look low class, don't you > know...) What a pain. Where me and dh lived as students officially had that rule. I strung up a clothes line across the balcony and never had a complaint. Maybe you could have suggested that clothes drying indoors might make the place damp?? Debbie >>Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth >>diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you >>guys choose that over disposable. I'm not asking rudely lol, I >>promise, to each her own I say, I'm just curious. :) [snip] > no rashes because their bottoms were never really > wet in a disposable, [snip] We had rashes in disposables. We also had the occasional leak of the water-asorbent gel from inside the disposable - even with premium brands. The cloth-kid potty trained much younger then the other two. SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three > Cloth is much less costly, both financially and environmentally. In all > other respects I found disposables vastly superior! Fewer and faster changes > (especially on squirmy toddlers), fewer blowouts, fewer changes of top > clothes, less laundering, no rashes because their bottoms were never really > wet in a disposable, no need to change a very young infant during night > feeds unless he'd pooped... I found most of that to be the opposite. I had fewer blowouts in cloth, many fewer rashes, cloth vs. disposable has no difference in speed, and cloth reeks less. And in cases where baby had had a bowel movement without being wet, disposables have a habit of pulling all the moisture out of it, making it hard to get off the skin...more difficult for boys. Michelle Flutist > Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth > diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another > kid maybe it's something I'll think about. 1 - Generally, cloth diapers are greener -- they use no petrochemical products, and they don't end up in landfills. Disposable diapers take forever to biodegrade -- and the plastic on the outside never does! Plus, there is concern in some areas about the amount of human fecal matter that ends up in the landfills; when you use cloth, that stuff goes into a septic system or sewage system designed to deal with it. 2 - For some kids, it's easier on their skin 3 - If a child DOES have a problem with their skin, you can put a cloth diaper on with no cover and they get more air to their skin without the risk of poop on the carpet. 4 - Personally, I found it more asthetically pleasing. There's something about a disposable diaper that feels to me like putting a baggie on a baby. But then, I grew up as the oldest in a large family, had a large extended family, and did a lot of babysitting -- I probably changed about a bazillion cloth diapers (with pins) by the time I was 15. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth > diapers? Answering just for me, I decided to use cloth diapers with my second child for environmental and aesthetic reasons. I think I may also have had some delusions that this might make him potty-train earlier - well, so much for that idea! Environmentally, I liked the fact that so much was in my hands. I could make washing decisions that minimized the impact of my child's diapers; I wasn't at the mercy of diaper companies who claimed that packing the disposables more tightly in the bags was something of an environmental coup. (No, I'm not kidding, I saw that on a diaper package once.) I also felt better knowing that all the human waste in our house was going where it belongs, into the sewer. Our township burns its waste in an incinerator and has said that disposable diapers pose a challenge, because they just don't burn well - adding both to the amount of ash, which is already a waste disposal problem, and the potentially dangerous substances in it. Aesthetically... well, would you wear disposable underwear? Women complain that disposable sanitary pads "feel like a diaper", and that really got me to thinking about what disposable diapers must feel like for a baby or toddler. If I don't like the feeling a few days out of the month, that was an argument against choosing something similar for my baby to wear all day and night, every day, for two years or more. There's also something just so pleasing about piles of soft, fluffy, clean white cotton diapers, and some of the diaper covers out there are just too cute. And I liked how, when I cuddled my baby, he didn't "rustle" - no noise from the plastic on the outside of the diaper, just a cute poofy big butt that was good to fall on when he was learning to walk. I didn't keep track of the money, but I expect we saved quite a bit. That was a nice benefit, but not a major reason for us. All in all, I wish I'd've stuck to my guns and chosen cloth for my older son. I was considering it, but listened to too many other people and too much diaper-company propoganda rather than my own instincts that time... - Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (12) and Robert (6) cindy@nethelp.no ****** Bærum, Norway Bilingual Families Web Page: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html > Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth > diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another > kid maybe it's something I'll think about. I'm doing it for $$ reasons. I think I'll save substantially. I'm worried about the extra laundry as I think I'll have to do a load a day, which equals 7 extra loads a week for diapers, not including the addition of their regular laundry (which would probably be only one load of clothes and one load bedding/blankets/etc.). I plan to do it for the first year. If we like it I'll buy some AIO's I think for the second year. I hope I get the bonus of earlier trainers with cloth. My other boys trained very late. On the flip side if these guys train late as well, I'll have saved even more money! SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >> Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth >> diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of their regular laundry (which would probably be only one load of clothes > and one load bedding/blankets/etc.). i have no idea where to put this, so picked here :-) unless your washing machine is tiny (and i imagine it isn't), there's no way on god's good earth those bubbas will make a full load of nappies every day!!!! (not on normal days, anyway, & not even working in tandem). like lee, i had the reverse problem - they seemed to just sit around in teh bucket for days until i was forced to wash them because they were about to reanimate and walk away by themselves. as time went on, there were fewer & fewer every day & the problem of getting to wash them without there being a full load got a bit chronic. (i think by that stage i was rinsing them & just putting them in with the other clothes to wash, it was just getting silly & would have taken weeks to create a FULL load of nappies!) certainly, disposables last much longer before needing to be changed, so one uses even fewer of those, but one really doesn't use hundreds of cloth nappies per day, or anything like that :-) i'd be inclined to think that with 2 babies going at it, you'd certainly need to do a load every 2 days until they're older, but every day just seems rather unlikely to me unless they're going to be the sort who simply must poo after every feed, or something. my eldest used cloth (the little one did too until i realised it was making his eczema a misery - so that was the end of that & the end of my cloth nappy experience) & he's 10 now, so it's possible i just don't remember correctly, but i know at that time we had quite a small washing machine & i'm really quite certain i was washing them every 2-3 days in a full load, (& by the time he was using them less & less, as i say, less often than that). the machine i have now is twice the size, probably about the size of yours since you have a family of 4+. since saving money is your motivation, you have to consider that, henceforth, you won't be washing any half-loads or any of that! ;-) i used cloth nappies with safety pins & plastic pants & that was that. i have no clue why some people think cloth nappies are rocket science. they're just not. :-) (i thought i'd add that in - the "cloth nappies are rocket science, argh, it's all sooooooo incredibly hard i'll just buy a truckful of huggies" squad just boggles my mind.) having said that, with kid#2 using disposables after the Great Eczema Realisation, of _course_ they're easier. they're easier than an easy thing, so i suppose that makes them very easy indeed :-) klyie > unless your washing machine is tiny (and i imagine it isn't), No, lol. It is huge. I can pick the size load of course so the water wouldn't be an issue but it still takes electricity to run a load. there's > no way on god's good earth those bubbas will make a full load of > nappies every day!!!! I wasn't thinking a full load would be generated, just that I'd run out if I didn't do a load every day. I could just buy more but I hated to invest that much. If I find some second hand then I'll go that route :-) I changed about 10 diapers a day with my other kids in the beginning because they were poop machines. I was thinking of ordering 3 dozen and that wouldn't last me two whole days but would give me enough leeway that I wouldn't be crazy about getting the load turned around. having said that, with kid#2 using disposables after the Great > Eczema Realisation, of _course_ they're easier. they're easier than > an easy thing, so i suppose that makes them very easy indeed :-) LOL - that is my dh's view. I think he'll go along with it since I promised no pins :-) SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >> unless your washing machine is tiny (and i imagine it isn't), > > No, lol. It is huge. I can pick the size load of course so the water > wouldn't be an issue but it still takes electricity to run a load. as much electricity, unfortunately! less water, but everything else is the same. > there's >> no way on god's good earth those bubbas will make a full load of >> nappies every day!!!! > > I wasn't thinking a full load would be generated, just that I'd run out if > I didn't do a load every day. ok, but you have to balance the cost of electricity in doing that, with the one-off expense of getting a few more in the first place, iyswim. it's just purely a waste of energy and money (& your valuable time) to wash small loads daily when you don't need to. of course we all do it _sometimes_ but as a general rule you're throwing money away to do that. I could just buy more but I hated to invest > that much. If I find some second hand then I'll go that route :-) I > changed about 10 diapers a day with my other kids in the beginning because > they were poop machines. I was thinking of ordering 3 dozen and that > wouldn't last me two whole days but would give me enough leeway that I > wouldn't be crazy about getting the load turned around. i had 3 dozen for one baby. for twins i'd be wanting more than that (4 doz if not 5), partly because as helen says, you can't really predict which days you'll need spares. ime they were simply not very expensive, and the covers even cheaper, and cloth nappies are so mind-bogglingly useful for so many things & for so many years afterwards, i personally would not consider 5 doz a waste, or excessive, or anything like that. after it's all over, the ones still in good condition can be sold & the others finish their lives usefully in other ways. i was about 15 before the last of the nappies my mum had for us finally died of old age & were all gone :-) if i were you i'd probably have 4 doz ready before they're born, & be willing to get another dozen later if we were constantly running out. > having said that, with kid#2 using disposables after the Great >> Eczema Realisation, of _course_ they're easier. they're easier than >> an easy thing, so i suppose that makes them very easy indeed :-) > > LOL - that is my dh's view. I think he'll go along with it since I > promised no pins :-) afaic, pins are where it's at once they start getting mobile!! i had various other thingies, but all were useless once mobility became an issue (which doesn't mean ALL other thingies are useless on mobile babies, but everything _i_ had bar pins had a limited useful life, but the pins did not - they've certainly withstood the test of time). pins are dead easy too! (and like the nappies, are useful approximately forever afterwards). many people don't know (any more) - if a pin's not going through easily, stroke it through your hair (NOT pointy end first!! <g>). when i heard this i said to my friend (who told me the trick) "that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard." she was right, though :-) (so i hope i apologised!) klyie > i had 3 dozen for one baby. for twins i'd be wanting more than that > (4 doz if not 5), partly because as helen says, you can't really [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > afterwards, i personally would not consider 5 doz a waste, or > excessive, or anything like that. Well that is good to know! I'll probably up the quantity then, it seems that a lot of people have posted that they have 4-5 dozen for even one baby. > afaic, pins are where it's at once they start getting mobile!! i had > various other thingies, but all were useless once mobility became an > issue Ohh -- see I don't have a problem with pins either. If I could do it at 12 I should be able to at 37 ;-) We'll have to experiement a bit. > - if a pin's not going through easily, stroke it through your hair > (NOT pointy end first!! <g>). when i heard this i said to my friend > (who told me the trick) "that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever > heard." she was right, though :-) (so i hope i apologised!) klyie No Kidding! I've never heard it either. I'll have to try it when no one is watching, lol. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > > i had 3 dozen for one baby. for twins i'd be wanting more than that > > (4 doz if not 5), partly because as helen says, you can't really [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ohh -- see I don't have a problem with pins either. If I could do it at 12 > I should be able to at 37 ;-) We'll have to experiement a bit. Check into Snappis. Pins can open accidently and poke the baby - for me they just aren't safe! I never had an issue with a Snappi and AFAIC, they are one of the best inventions for cloth diapering. -L. > > > i had 3 dozen for one baby. for twins i'd be wanting more than that > > > (4 doz if not 5), partly because as helen says, you can't really [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -L. I've used diaper pins on MANY babies over lots of years: as the third oldest of about 50 first cousins, with my youngest brother and sister (I was 16 and 18 when they were born, and changed a lot of diapers), as a much-in-demand babysitter in my teens and early 20's, and with my own three kids. I never experienced a diaper pin accidentally opening and poking the baby, nor did I ever poke the baby accidentally while changing them. (Poked myself once or twice -- but that's why you keep your hand between the diaper pin and the baby until the pin is closed.) Diaper pins are made differently than regular safety pins, and don't accidentally open. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care >> > > i had 3 dozen for one baby. for twins i'd be wanting more than that >> > > (4 doz if not 5), partly because as helen says, you can't really [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >Diaper pins are made differently than regular safety pins, and don't >accidentally open. Ditto. Also, we used to keep a cake of soap on the diaper table and if we didn't want to (or couldn't) close the pin while it was waiting to be re-inserted, we stuck it in the soap. This also lubricated it which is what the stroking through the hair thing also does. The thing I was always most afraid of was the baby picking up and maybe swallowing the pin (not the pin coming undone), so I always closed them (can be done one handed) as soon as I took them off. grandma Rosalie Our diaper service order for twins was 140 per week when they were small, and we did run out sometimes, so we definitely did do more than ten diapers a day per baby occasionally. (Those annoying times when you change the baby after one poop and then they have another nickel's worth in a fresh diaper ...) I should think twenty diapers plus assorted wraps would indeed be about a load of laundry, or close enough. In any case, with a family full of laundry-producers there would always be something else one could throw in -- some people object to washing anything but diaper-y stuff in the same load, but the babies' clothes are likely to get pee and poop on them anyway, there's no real reason not to put them in. Mind you, I never had any of those babies who go down to one poop a week or anything. --Helen > Can I butt in with a question? What is the advantage to using cloth > diapers? I don't know much about it. I'm just curious about why you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > training soon, so it's moot for me now. But if I ever do have another > kid maybe it's something I'll think about. Honestly, it's a matter of personal preference. I don't think there's actually an advantage to one method over the other. The environmental impacts are there but I don't think they're significant (hence, the debate). I've used both with both children because daycare demanded disposables. With DD, we used diaper service while with DS we washed the diapers at home. We switched fully to disposables with DS - the washing of diapers wasn't working for us - especially with me working outside the home. DD did potty-train earlier (18 months for BM, 22 months fully) than DS (not yet at 2 1/2 years old). I put that down to the intrinsic difference between DD and DS, not to the type of diapers we're using because by 18 months DD was mostly in disposables. She trained herself at daycare without any input or knowledge from us. Jeanne > Someone told me that the chemicals used by diapers services are > horrid for the environment, as bad as disposables in a landfill. I > don't know if this is true, but it may be worth looking into. To be honest, I'm not really overly concerned about the environmental affects. I'm just concerned about my pocket book at this point. If it wasn't so skinny I'd be using disposables ;-) SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > If you can, look into the diaper service: at least where I lived, they > gave "twin insurance": for a minimal fee, I could double a normal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > disposables, in my opinion -- we never had to go out to buy anything, > no garbage to get rid of, it just magically appeared once a week. Yeah, we had a diaper service with our first child, when we lived in a city that had one. It's really nice. Michelle Flutist > I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest possible nylon pants > that are more similar to what our mom's used? All I can tell you is what we did and we are *very* satisfied with our choices. I bought 4 dozen small and 4 dozen medium diapers - Chinese Prefolds - from weebees.com. I bought the least expensive diapers they had. I also bought 12 small Bummis snap covers and 12 Medium Bummis snap covers - I initially started out with 8 but ordered more. I LOVE the Bummis snap covers! We use them with the Snappis fasteners - I think I bought 10 or so since we tend to lose things around here. I bought a few Diaperwraps covers at the grocery store as well - they were less expensive, but didn't hold up as well. The Bummi's mediums fit my son until he was about 19 months old. I temporarily went to dispos but then ordered some large covers and am now back to cloth. I LOVE cloth! > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? Initally 10-12, sometimes more. We bought 48 and washed diapers every 3-4 days. The small ones all fit in the washer, so it's really easy. > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? I reused the covers if they weren't too soaked with pee. Once they were used a couple of times, they get too pee-soaked and so I'd switch them out. So I went through 3-7 or so per day, sometimes less. I just washed covers with his clothing. > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use them > with each diaper? Never bought either. Never needed them! > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold > diaper and cover? IMO, it's a huge waste of money. I was able to get all of my diapering supplies for around $350.00 -in 2004. > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to > accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) You have to change them when they wet - it's not like a disposable that wicks away the moisture. > Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a few > things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the whole > shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come back and order > again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me as > a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free shipping. That's what I did - I just took a chance on Chinese prefolds, Bummis and http://www.weebees.com and I was *sooo* glad I did! We recently ordered Large covers and are still using cloth. I will NEVER regret my decision to do so! Another great benefit is you can resell them (diapers and wraps) on eBay for almost what you pay for them! One thing I will mention is to follow the washing instructions supplied with your diapers. Do not ever use bleach as it will ruin your diapers *very* quickly. We pre-swished poopy diapers in the toilet, wrung them and stuck them in a bucket, or into the Diaper Champ with the peed diapers (which went directly into the Champ.) I did 2 washes in Arm & Hammer Free detergent, the second wash being HOT with A&H washing soda added. I double rinsed and added vinegar to the final rinse. My dipes came out clean and fresh smelling every load. :) Good luck - I don't think you will regret your choice. -L. >I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mostly for dh. Proraps seem to be a middle of the road price and get good > reviews. I will live with pins and pull-up pant style covers ;-) I did prefolds and velcro. > Questions: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? about 7/8 at newborn level, 4ish at older > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? 6 at newborn (tried 4 but it wasn't enough) 4 once they were on solids. > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use > them > with each diaper? Didn't use them at all. > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold > diaper and cover? Don't know. > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to > accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) Every 2-4 hours usually. I didn't use them overnight. It depends on how much they wee really. I had to change #2 more than #1. > Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a few > things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the whole > shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come back and order > again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me > as a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free > shipping. If it helps: I had 18 small prefolds (up to 3-6months), 18 large prefolds and 6 shaped prefolds (which did up to about 16 months). I reckoned on washing the nappies every other day. It's a very satisfying sight, nappies drying on the line!!! :-) And they both potty trined reasonably early, so it probably saved a few nappy changes there too! Debbie > "Nikki" <kavanagh@iw.net> wrote in message >> How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? >> > about 7/8 at newborn level, 4ish at older That doesn't sound two bad. I'll want to do less laundry as they are older because I'll be back to work. I don't want nekkid babies if I miss a day for some reason :-) >> How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? >> > 6 at newborn (tried 4 but it wasn't enough) 4 once they were on > solids. Oh - that seems a more reasonable number then what the sites say. I'm so glad I asked here! > If it helps: I had 18 small prefolds (up to 3-6months), 18 large > prefolds and 6 shaped prefolds (which did up to about 16 months). That does help. I was figuring on buying 3 doz of each size (but will have two babies). I > reckoned on washing the nappies every other day. It's a very > satisfying sight, nappies drying on the line!!! :-) I don't have a line. Maybe I'll get one for nice weather though. I used to have one and used it a lot. I expect I'll be washing diapers in the dark half the time though, lol. > And they both potty trined reasonably early, so it probably saved a > few nappy changes there too! That would be a huge bonus. I used disposables with my other boys. They were both over 3yo before they trained. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > > I'm going a little bonkers trying to get this figured out. If I convince dh > I'll go the prefold route with covers. I want to get some Velcro covers, > mostly for dh. Proraps seem to be a middle of the road price and get good > reviews. I will live with pins and pull-up pant style covers ;-) I like Proraps, but I much prefer the snap style to the Velcro. > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold > diaper and cover? No, t he fancy ones cost a fortune, especially when you consider you have to wash the cover and diaper together, which you don't always have to do with prefolds and wraps. Generally, I like to go with 4-8-4 diapers, 8 covers, and 4-5 dozen for newborn. > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to > accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) 10-12 a day to start. Michelle Flutist > Generally, I like to go with 4-8-4 diapers, 8 covers, and 4-5 dozen > for newborn. Jeepers that is a lot. :-) I did a dummy order that would hopefully cover the sizes for the first year. 3 dozen diapers each for two sizes. 16 covers (some wrap, some cheap pull up w/pins style) in both sizes and then I included two fuzzi buns for overnight or long trip use. That was $340. Maybe I should chuck the FB idea and order more newborn size diapers! Do the Proraps snap covers hold the diapers in place without pins? Dh will not fiddle with pins I don't think. I saw those snappies - maybe he'd go for those :-) This is for two babies. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > the Proraps snap covers hold the diapers in place without pins? Dh will > not fiddle with pins I don't think. I saw those snappies - maybe he'd go > for those :-) Yeah, they work exactly the same was as the velcro, except with snaps. They hold up much better for washing. > This is for two babies. Ouch, I didn't catch that right away. I think with twins, I'd be tempted to do half disposable and half cloth, or have the hubbie do the laundry if he's available. On my fifth kid, currently sleeping in my lap, most of our cloth were worn out and we have a lot of laundry to do so we finally gave up the cloth. However, more than one of my children has had an actual allergy to disposables, and if that had happened again we would have done it again. Michelle Flutist >I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest possible nylon pants >that are more similar to what our mom's used? I can't answer the wrap question, as we never had them. >How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? I got diaper service for the first month or 6 weeks. It helps a LOT if there is such a thing in your area. For a newborn, I got 90 a week. Mostly pee, although my dd reports that her new baby (born December 27, 2005) has had only about 4 or 5 diapers since birth that did not have some poop. This baby also objects violently to being in a dirty diaper and escalates the volume until you change her. After the first couple of weeks, the number decreased. >How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? I used plastic pants, and didn't need but about 3 when they were newborn. >Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use them >with each diaper? I didn't use liners because I couldn't count on the baby to poop on schedule. They would always poop when there was no liner. >Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold >diaper and cover? > >How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to >accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) You have to change cloth as often as you change disposable or the kid will get diaper rash. I had cloth Birds Eye diapers which you fold according to how big the baby is and not the prefolded ones. I had about 4 dozen. I would do a load of diapers every other day, and I hung them out to dry on the line, but it would be quicker to use the dryer - I just didn't have one at that time. On alternate days, I did either baby clothes or family wash. I did not wash either the baby clothes or the diapers in with any other family wash, and I double rinsed the diapers using soap (I used Ivory Flakes if you can get that now) with 20 mule team Borax. NO FABRIC SOFTENER, as that will reduce the absorbency of the diaper. >Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a few >things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the whole >shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come back and order >again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me as >a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free shipping. grandma Rosalie > I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > road price and get good reviews. I will live with pins and pull-up > pant style covers ;-) I used towelling squares (and some brushed cotton ones) that I folded myself with pins/stretchy fasteners and plastic pants. I tried velcro covers but there was always more leakage with them, plus they were expensive and took longer to dry. Later I made some velcro towelling nappies that had a tongue which folded up to give a 'disposable' effect and they were great. (Nappy/diaper construction techniques have moved on considerably in the last 15 years!) > Questions: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest > possible nylon pants that are more similar to what our mom's used? Personal taste, but I reckon not. Some bubs are more inclined to get rashes in nylon pants so it's a matter of experimenting and seeing what suits their bottoms. > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? Newborns, 8-10. It depends how often they poop - some do almost every nappy. Cloth has to be changed more often than disposables, ime. > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? 4ish, depending on the poop ratio, Sometimes the outside of the velcro covers would get to wet to use again which isn't so much of a problem with nylon over pants. > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you > use them with each diaper? I used flushable liners and would wash wet-only ones to reuse them and flush poopy ones. Saved a lot of rinsing that way. > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the > prefold diaper and cover? > > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to > accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) With twins that's all you're going to be able to do, I suspect. You might be able to get a daily shower in there somewhere but don't count on it! :) > Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a > few things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the > whole shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come > back and order again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk > will be paid for me as a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with > larger orders and free shipping. Think about using disposables at night, especially if you mainly have wet nappies then. They will last through the night in them, usually. As for washing them, I dumped them all into a bucket of pre-soaker, ran them through a cold rinse first and then put them through one normal wash cycle using the family's laundry powder. I'm pretty sure I used a cold cycle unless there were a lot of poopy nappies in the bucket. Then I line-dried or used a dryer depending on the weather. I liked to put a load through every two days at least. Tai > I also posted on mkp but forgot to cross post :-/ > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do Proraps really hold the diaper in place without pins? We used velcro wraps and yes, they held the diaper in place without pins. Never used pins. > The Bummis Whisper Pant pulls up and looks higher quality but is it really > worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest possible nylon pants > that are more similar to what our mom's used? We got some wool wraps - I forget what they're called - they were expensive but we got about a dozen of them from my SIL. I bought more off EBay. > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? We had diaper service - they estimated about 10-12 a day for newborns. After a while, we got 70 diapers a week and then maybe 60 diapers a week. But we never fell below that level. > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? 6-8. Four is just too few especially if the baby has a few explosive poops. > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use them > with each diaper? No liners. Liners never made sense to me when I saw newborn poop. I sewed some doublers (flannel and Malden Mills fleece) and used them at night. > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold > diaper and cover? Never used them. > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money but I want to > accomplish something besides nursing and changing diapers :-) Whenever the baby was wet or dirty - every 2 hours? > Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to get just a few > things before buying the whole shebang but I think I'll get the whole > shebang and hope for the best. I'll never get time to come back and order > again, and if I order all at once I think a big chunk will be paid for me as > a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger orders and free shipping. > Questions: > > Do Proraps really hold the diaper in place without pins? yup! > The Bummis Whisper Pant pulls up and looks higher quality > but is it really worth the extra money versus just getting > the cheapest possible nylon pants that are more similar to > what our mom's used? i used the pullup kind (with side snaps) most but the Bummis wraps are wonderful. > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per > day? i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size i think > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby > per day? maybe 2 or 3. they only need changing if they get poopy (Boo never had blowouts) > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? > Do you use them with each diaper? nope. they're handy if the kid tends to really pee a lot at once, & at night, but not all the time > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better > then the prefold diaper and cover? way easier! if you want to convert a disposable user to cloth, get the all-in-ones! get some for when you're out shopping or travelling anyway. you'll be glad you did. > How often do you change cloth? I need to save the money > but I want to accomplish something besides nursing and > changing diapers :-) same as disposables, when they're wet &/or dirty. > Thank you in advance!! I know it probably makes sense to > get just a few things before buying the whole shebang but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as a gift. Yay :-) I also get discounts with larger > orders and free shipping. where are you looking? i bought most of mine at green mountain (www.greenmountaindiapers.com) OTOH, if you want my old cloth diapers, let me know! i have a 50 gallon tote full of newborn to toddler cloth diapers, wraps, all-in-ones, wipes & carry bags (waterproof nylon for changes on the go) oh, & if you go with prefolds, get the Snappi fasteners. much better/faster/easier than pins, at least until they get mobile. lee Signaturewar is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength 1984-George Orwell > i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size i >think That's why I thought the non-pre-folded ones were better. You just folded them to fit. You didn't have to have different sizes. grandma Rosalie > > i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size i > >think [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > grandma Rosalie You also have the advantage of being able to fold them differently for boys or girls, putting the extra padding where it will most likely be needed. As a teenager when my youngest brother and sister were born, I did a LOT of diapers -- changing them, folding them, washing them, hanging them to dry. While I DID want to use cloth on my own kids, I wasn't interested in dealing with the washing and drying part if I could avoid it. (What was most interesting was that my brother had extremely sensitive skin, and his diapers had to be hung outside for the UV treatment. He was born in January, in Superior, WI. Frankly, there's not a lot to be said for hanging diapers on the line when it's below zero; we'd bring them back in after a couple of hours, and stack them in a corner until they thawed enough to hang them over the indoor line. We didn't have a dryer.) This, by the way, is another advantage of using a service: as the kids get bigger, you just have them deliver the new size. The service I used even had a premie size, and went up to VERY large. I could also get cloth training pants when they got old enough for that. SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care >> > i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size i >> >think [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >in a corner until they thawed enough to hang them over the indoor line. >We didn't have a dryer.) The sun is great for bleaching and that kind of thing. I didn't actually believe that diapers would dry if they were frozen, but they will. It's kind of hard on them though. I hung diapers outside in Norfolk in the winter - not as cold as Wisconsin, but very very windy. I didn't need to bring them inside to dry some more, but I did have a folding drying rack which came in handy quite a few times even after I had a dryer. >This, by the way, is another advantage of using a service: as the kids >get bigger, you just have them deliver the new size. The service I used >even had a premie size, and went up to VERY large. I could also get >cloth training pants when they got old enough for that. I only used the diaper service for the first few months when they were using a LOT of diapers. One other possibility that you might consider is to wait to use cloth diapers until they are bigger and won't grow out of them as fast or use quite so many. I also used disposables when I was going out for the day so I wouldn't have to bring a wet or messy diaper home with me. grandma Rosalie > The sun is great for bleaching and that kind of thing. I didn't > actually believe that diapers would dry if they were frozen, but they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > folding drying rack which came in handy quite a few times even after I > had a dryer. Eventually, even frozen, they will dry, but it takes a long time -- a couple of days when it's well below 0. Wind helps, but it was often very still when it was that cold. We didn't have enough diapers to wait that long! SignatureChildren won't care how much you know until they know how much you care > One other possibility that you might consider is to wait to use cloth > diapers until they are bigger and won't grow out of them as fast or > use quite so many. I'm not ordering any newborn size. Just the small that go up to 15lbs. If they are born very tiny I'll just use disposables until they fit into the diapers. My other boys gained so fast that newborn stuff only worked for a couple of weeks. SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >> One other possibility that you might consider is to wait to use cloth >> diapers until they are bigger and won't grow out of them as fast or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >diapers. My other boys gained so fast that newborn stuff only worked for a >couple of weeks. I never had a baby that was less than 8 lbs so newborn stuff didn't get worn much at all. OTOH one of my grandchildren wasn't over 20 lbs until she was older than 14 months. grandma Rosalie > You also have the advantage of being able to fold them differently for > boys or girls, putting the extra padding where it will most likely be > needed. You can do that with prefolded diapers. Michelle Flutist >> i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size >> i [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You just folded them to fit. You didn't have to have > different sizes. i think we have a miscommunication here :) the "prefolds" are the flat diapers, except they're thicker in the middle than the old single layer bird's eye diapers. i think they have 4 layers in the middle, but my kid is 5.5 years & it's been awhile ;) you can fold them in a bunch of different ways. i usually did thirds & opened out the 'wings' on the backside to wrap around to the front. i liked the different sizes because it's a PITA to get a huge diaper on a newborn, especially if you've never dealt with a baby before... i made Tom change diapers for the first 3 days because i'd never changed a diaper in my life. lee Signaturewar is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength 1984-George Orwell i usually did > thirds & opened out the 'wings' on the backside to wrap around > to the front. I've had minimal expereince with cloth. As a teen I babysat for a baby that was in cloth. This is how I was taught. We used pins and plastic pants. i liked the different sizes because it's a PITA > to get a huge diaper on a newborn, That is my thought too! SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 >>> i don't remember. i had 2 dozen each newborn & infant size >>> i [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >think they have 4 layers in the middle, but my kid is 5.5 >years & it's been awhile ;) We had those too, but I didn't think of them as pre-folds, and I never folded them much but OTOH, my babies were all over 8 lbs. The ones I was talking about were shaped - they weren't flat. Maybe they were called 'fitted' (like a fitted sheet). > you can fold them in a bunch of different ways. i usually did >thirds & opened out the 'wings' on the backside to wrap around [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >first 3 days because i'd never changed a diaper in my life. >lee grandma Rosalie > OTOH, if you want my old cloth diapers, let me know! i have a > 50 gallon tote full of newborn to toddler cloth diapers, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > better/faster/easier than pins, at least until they get > mobile. No kidding!!?! That would be great. How much do you want for them? My reply email address should work just fine. :-D SignatureNikki Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06 > Do Proraps really hold the diaper in place without pins? I don't have any experience with that brand, but I can say that in my experience Velcro-type diaper covers do indeed hold the diapers in place without pinning. One bit of advice: if you have the chance, get the covers in colors or prints. That way, when you're in a hurry to take a load of diapers out of the washer and toss them into the dryer, you can see the covers easily and pull them out. Most covers, maybe all?, are not supposed to go in the dryer. > The Bummis Whisper Pant pulls up and looks higher quality but is it really > worth the extra money versus just getting the cheapest possible nylon pants > that are more similar to what our mom's used? Personally, I stayed away from the pull-up types. You need to fasten the diaper in place somehow, and using the Velcro covers just seemed simpler. Also, erm, well. I changed the diapers of smaller cousins and nephews before I had kids of my own, and they all seemed to use nylon pants, and I hated the way they felt. Stiff, crinkly, and just slick and unpleasant to the touch. Plus, part of the point of using cloth diapers is that they breathe, right? Maybe the nylon pants *do* breathe, but they sure felt like they didn't... > How many diapers did you find you needed for one baby per day? For newborns, you need to change with every feed, so 8-10 per day. When they get older, it's a lot more variable. Some kids pee a tiny bit relatively often and want to be changed every time. Others hold it back until the reservoir is tip-top full, so you have wetter diapers but fewer changes. > How many wraps/covers did you find you needed for one baby per day? In the newborn stage, again, with that mustardy breastfed poop, the cover got hit about every other time. That would be 4-5 changes of wrap per day. As the baby gets older, he'll poop less often, and in time as other foods are added to his diet the stool gets solid, too. I think I was averaging one dirty wrap per day after a while. Otherwise I'd keep two in circulation, because the inside would frequently be damp when I changed him (I had one of those kids who would be dry one minute and completely soaked the next). So one would be left on the changing table to dry while he was wearing the other one. (Only one of my kids used cloth, looking back I wish both had!) > Are diaper doubles or the extra liners necessary as a rule? Do you use them > with each diaper? I found diaper doublers to be useless, though I only tried one type and not for long. Once the baby was sleeping through the night, I'd put him to bed with two diapers and a fleece cover. He'd wake up with a sopping wet diaper, but his pajamas and bed would be dry, at least. Once he was passing solid stools, I liked the flushable liners - I put them in every diaper because I never could predict which one would be pooped in. But they certainly weren't necessary. For those liquidy early stools they would be useless, but they come out so nicely in the wash anyway. > Are the Fuzzi Bunz (and similar) really that much better then the prefold > diaper and cover? I'm not sure what Fuzzi Bunz are. Are they fitted, or all-in-ones? I had some fitted diapers, thinking they could be for when other people were changing diapers. Hah! Didn't work. They'd find the hidden emergency disposable stash and use that. I did use them sometimes, but I found I kept coming back to the prefolds - the fitted diapers just seemed to take so long to dry, and they weren't that much easier once I had the hang of prefolds. Never tried all-in-ones. Do get good prefolds! Someone gave us some patterned ones, really cute, but they had six layers of cloth in the middle instead of eight. The kid peed right through them. Urg. They did make cute spit-up rags though. > How often do you change cloth? As I said, a lot in the beginning, after that it depends on the child's habits. - Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (12) and Robert (6) cindy@nethelp.no ****** Bærum, Norway Bilingual Families Web Page: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html |
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