Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / January 2004

Thanks :)

Yep, in Charlotte's class every student has to keep a laminated paper apple
on a tree (with velcro).  It comes off if they've misbehaved.

Someone on that thread.  If my school offered that form, I'd be looking for
another school!

In 23 states, it is legal and though I believe it has decreased in
frequency, it is still done in plenty of schools in

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Wyoming

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Really?  Cos it surprised and horrified me.  I think it's really wrong and I
can't imagine giving a teacher or school administrator permission to do
that.

Good, my home state is on the list!

I take it you missed this California attempt to return paddling to the
schools there.

California only outlawed corporal punishment statewide in 1986
and in 1996, an assemblyman tried to reinstate it.

http://www.corpun.com/ussc9601.htm

Los Angeles Times, 19 January 1996
Major Disputes Over Corporal Punishment

By Diane Seo, Times Staff Writer

Remember the days when unruly kids at school were
punished with a good old-fashioned swat on the behind?
Those days may soon be here again if an Orange County
legislator has his way.

Assemblyman Mickey Conroy (R-Orange) has proposed
bringing corporal punishment back to California schools
after a decade-long absence, alarming many people but
also winning praise from those who believe a good
spanking can do a child good.

"Today, kids are getting away with everything," said Lisa
Van Tassell, whose child attends Jeane Thorman
Elementary in Tustin. "Something's got to be done to
get children's respect back. As long as the paddling is
well supervised and doesn't go overboard, I would support
it." Kids, however, gave a thumbs-down to the idea.

"If it happened to me, I would go right to the phone and
call my mom or dad, and I know they wouldn't like it," said
Portia Moss, a seventh-grader at A.G. Currie Middle
School in Tustin.

The corporal punishment bill has advanced to the
Assembly Appropriations Committee after clearing the
Education Committee on Wednesday. Since 1986, state
public school educators have been banned from using
corporal punishment, the moderate use of physical
force by a teacher or principal to maintain discipline.

But Conroy's bill and his companion measure that calls
for paddling of juvenile graffiti vandals have been
embraced this year by Republicans, who hold a majority
in the Assembly. They see the return of spanking and
other forms of assertive discipline as a return to basic
education practices.

The corporal punishment bill would not require school
districts to reinstate paddling but would allow schools
to adopt corporal punishment policies if they choose.
Under the provisions of the bill, school employees
could paddle students only if another adult is present
and if they get prior written permission from a parent.

"Mickey's appalled by all the violence going on in public
schools and believes the violence has skyrocketed
since corporal punishment was banned," said Patrick
Joyce, an aide to Conroy. "He believes corporal
punishment is one thing that can be used to restore
discipline and give kids a sense of accountability."

Some people, however, are appalled that California
could return to the days when a teacher or principal
could whack a disobedient student for mouthing off,
getting into a fight or engaging in other naughty behavior.
Some educators said that even if the state allows them
to administer corporal punishment, they have no plans
to do so.

"I'm a 20-year veteran of the Marines, but even I don't
see paddling as being able to solve any problems,"
said Charles Milligan, principal at Spring View Middle
School in Huntington Beach. "If we brought it back, I
don't think it would change anything."

But other school officials say corporal punishment has
its merits and a place at school, as long as parents
give their consent.

"A lot of times, if the punishment is swift and brings the
issue to a conclusion, it can be effective," said Tom Meiss,
varsity football coach at Foothill High in Tustin. "I have no
doubt or reservation saying it's an effective form of
discipline, but I'm just not sure how parents would feel.
A lot of parents probably spank their own children, but
they may not be anxious to have someone else do it."

While some parents support the idea of corporal
punishment, others fear educators would abuse their
rights to spank a child.

"I can't even imagine a responsible adult thinking of
reinstating paddling," said Sueanne Pacini, a parent at
Andersen Elementary in Newport Beach. "I don't think
corporal punishment belongs in the school or in the home
. . . . What a waste of time and money to put a bill like
this through."

While walking home from Currie Middle School, seventh-
grader Cecilia Davis cringed at the thought of being
whacked at school.

"No one should be able to hit you except your parents,"
Cecilia said. "I think if teachers started hitting kids, some
kids would hit the teacher back."

Wendy Flores, an eighth-grader at Currie, said she would
rather be suspended than spanked.

"I think it's embarrassing to be hit in front of the class
and have marks on your body," she said.

Don Keller, principal at Kazuo Masuda Middle School
in Fountain Valley, remembers paddling students while
he was an administrator with the Long Beach Unified
School District in the early 1980s.

"I had mixed emotions about it then," he said. "At the
time we were using swats for everything from truancy
to other infractions. With some kids, it was effective.
For others, it was not."

Keller, who also was paddled in school, believes reinstating
corporal punishment wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing,
although he knows it is not regarded as the politically
correct way to discipline students.

"People who are pro-corporal punishment are seen as
Neanderthals," he said. "If it were returned to the schools,
I would use it sparingly because it's something that could
be abused."

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

...>

So did I!!!  Last spring my then 6th grader did an afternoon "paddling"
program that involved kayaks and canoes!  Before my son started he was
excited by kayaks, but then decided he liked canoes better --- even the
racing canoes that  require precise balancing.

The worst thing about that was the lack of parking by the lake when the
weather got better as spring turned to summer.

Most paddlings don't take place in preschools or kindergartens, but in
upper elementary and middle school.

As for the no touching, I too think it's sad, but I understand why
teachers are especially loathe to touch kids when they can be accused
of inappropriate touching at the drop of a hat.  This is especially
true for male teachers.

We don't have a no touching rule in our preschool, but we don't help
with wiping on the potty and we always have more than one teacher
present in the classroom as well.  Kids do sit on our laps and get
hugged in the classroom certainly - after all these are 3 to 5 year
olds, not little adults.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits