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Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / April 2008Are My Step Daughter's Bad Habits Normal? Please help!
Hello all, I would be MOST greatful if someone can help me with an ongoing and often heated debate about my step daughter's (age 9) bad habits. She's constantly putting her fingers in her face, month etc.. scratching from the nose down and often has a lot of dirt built up around her face at the end of her day. Most days she's been coming home from school with head lice (nits) - although not for the past two weeks (yay!). But she's had worms twice in the past 6 months as a result of this habit. Last week, on the first day visting her dads she got a gastro bug and was violently sick and with diarreah. My step son (age 8) hasn't had these issues on a regular basis. She resents me for asking then telling her to close her month when she eats food. She resents me for pointing out that she's putting her figures in her mouth again etc... My question is, "Is this normal". My partner is telling me this happens all the time with kids and is very common. I know that kids DO get these things from time to time, but ARE hibitual parisites and germs due to bad habits normal? My step son never gets anything like this. It is not normal to me. My childhood and any friends of mine have never had it this often. I have a 7 week old daughter who may catch these things and and would then need to be put into hostpital. I have to be very fearful of her now because because I don't want the baby to get any of this. I watch her like a halk are the baby. The living situation is very uncomfortable now for all of us. I am being seen as very mean etc... It's really horrible. This has caused a very bad strain on our household and I just need to know if this is normal? Please help! Thanks. Hi -- I'm willing to bet that there are other issues here, not just bad personal habits. I'd consult with her pediatrician about the health issues, and probably with a child psychologist or social worker as well. She's likely to be feeling insecure with the new baby, possibly new living situation (you don't mention how long you've lived with your partner), and may have issues related to her other parent as well. Poor personal habits are common still in children her age, but the frequency of parasites and disease suggests that you're not seeing everyting that's going on. My two cents, --Beth Kevles bethkevles@gmail.PUT-THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. >Hi -- > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >frequency of parasites and disease suggests that you're not seeing >everyting that's going on. Or simply not addressing everything the parents need to address. Sounds like the lice and other problems are being passed around in the household. If there are no lice, there's nothing for scratching to exacerbate, and it may well dissappear. I recommend posting to alt.support.step-parents, also. Banty > In article <480f5e89$0$306$b45e6...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>, Beth Kevles > says... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Banty Hi Banty, I will try and post there as well - thank you! By the way - none of us have had head lice at all and none of us have had the worms or the gastral bug that she had. It's just her. The habits have always been there, but the recent frequency suggests that it is NOT normal amongst other families and there is definatley somethign else going on! Thanks for your help! Daniel zzzdanielfsp@gmail.com schrieb: > By the way - none of us have had head lice at all and none of us have > had the worms or the gastral bug that she had. It's just her. The > habits have always been there, but the recent frequency suggests that > it is NOT normal amongst other families and there is definatley > somethign else going on! Head lice are not a hygiene problem though. Gastro bugs are probably not really a hygiene problem either. It just gets passed around a lot during the colder months, especially lice do because kids wear hats and coats and the (stupid little) beasts come wandering around that way. Her immune system might be weaker than that of your step son and that's why she catches the gastro bugs and other things more quickly. So yes, go see your pediatrician and see what you can do for her immune system. cu nicole On 23 Apr, 17:16, Banty <Banty_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote: > In article <480f5e89$0$306$b45e6...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>, Beth > Kevles [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Banty Hi Banty, I will try and post there as well - thank you! >By the way - none of us have had head lice at all and none of us have >had the worms or the gastral bug that she had. It's just her. The >habits have always been there, but the recent frequency suggests that >it is NOT normal amongst other families and there is definatley >somethign else going on! I suspect you may well have had worms. You don't usually see the worms, it's the itching that gives it away. About 10-20% of children aged under 10yo have worms at any one time, according to my treatment packet. Certainly #1 has had them, at times so frequently, that I've been tempted to treat her regularly without waiting for it to get itchy. When you treat one person in the household, you are meant to treat all, because the chances are that others have it, and if you don't treat then there's a good chance of re-infection. It is sort of an indication of poor hygene, but it really is unbearably itchy, so I wouldn't really blame a 9yo for scratching. Keep the nails short, encourage her to wear pants or pyjama trousers in bed so scratching is less tempting. If the itchiness is unbearable, then I've found with my children that a large blob of thick cream (sudocream thickness) on the anus provides good relief. Nits are not a sign of bad hygene either, more likely that there's others in her class who are reinfecting her, a frequent problem in some schools. Make sure you use the leave on for an hour stuff, not the 10 minute stuff, as that doesn't work very well, and often will cause reinfection as not all the eggs are killed off by it. Fine toothcombing the hair frequently shoulf help this too. Scratching and illnesses are something that some get more than others, so I wouln't cite that as your ss hasn't had these things then it's definitely poor hygene. In my household generally #1 doesn't get ill more than mildly, rarely, #2 gets frequent illnesses varing from mild to pretty rough, and #3 gets ear infections badly(this has been the case since babyhood). However poor hygene doen't help. Scratching could be excema, in which case creaming the skin may help. It could just be a bad habit, in which case a reward system should help. I think the eating with mouth open/fingers in mouth is a reasonable thing to expect a 9yo not to do. I'd suggest as you've got into a bad position with it, then rewarding not doing it might be the way to go. Sticker chart is the typical one, with a prize if you get a certain amount. If she does the habit, then a quiet, "please could you", followed by a reminder of the prize should start off helping. Hope that helps. Debbie On Apr 23, 7:02 pm, "Welches" <debbie.welc...@SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> wrote: > <zzzdaniel...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hi Debbie, Thank you very much for your email. It's difficult to spend the sort of time replying to everyone who has offered their help & advice. I think you had some really good ideas there. I'd just like to say that the itching isn't on her anus, although when she's sleeping her mom thinks she does. What's happening is she's habitually (often without realizing) scratching her face - from the nose down. Sometimes it's so much that she diggs into her skin. It's here that causing the worms to be injested. this is all down to really poor hygiene. I know that 9 year olds do this but I don't know of too many that are always getting things as a result. The nits DO come from school. She's gotten better at not putting her head together with the other girls she plays with. It must have been difficult for her but what I think did it was that the word got out around the school that some of the girls had nits. So now she prides herself on 'not' putting her head near her friends and 'enjoys' the nit free status. I am looked at really horribly for saying anything or pointing it out to her when she does this. One thing that I did not mention anywhere (becuase it wasn't the question at hand) was that the kids have seen their mom & dad being violent at an early age. They do not seem to have any respect for adult athority. Their mom had a really hard time finding baby sitters because they would always wind up the sitters so badly that they refused to come back - ever! Since this came to light I have been much more strict with them and they have even thanked me saying, "I'm glad your strict, it's what we need". Their dad was never strict (apparntly) but with me, they do have more stability. ...it just when I have to point out things that embarras them (her). Anyways, thanks very much for your time. I think things will get better. Her mom has agreed that something does need to be done now. I like to reward scheme you mentioned. I will try that. Best wishes, Daniel >On Apr 23, 7:02=A0pm, "Welches" <debbie.welc...@SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> >wrote: >> <zzzdaniel...@gmail.com> wrote in message >Thank you very much for your email. It's difficult to spend the sort >of time replying to everyone who has offered their help & advice. Again, this is not email - you are posting to a worldwide forum, sort of like a bulletin board that the world can read and post to. This is a discussion group. You might have susbscribed and 'see' this as a series of emails in your inbox. But there is no expectation that you reply individually to each post as if they were individual letters. Theres nothing really wrong with doing that, either, but there's no expectation. Banty On Apr 23, 7:02 pm, "Welches" <debbie.welc...@SPAMntlworldPLEASE.com> wrote: > <zzzdaniel...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:68b82e33-f840-4fc7-9f2b-f382b1f2ac15@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On 23 Apr, 17:16, Banty <Banty_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote: <snip>> > Hope that helps. > > Debbie- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi Debbie, >Thank you very much for your email. It's difficult to spend the sort >of time replying to everyone who has offered their help & advice. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >know that 9 year olds do this but I don't know of too many that are >always getting things as a result. Are you talking about threadworms? I'm guessing you don't know the life cycle of them if you are. I'm not meaning to be patronizing, if I've misread what you have said. Sorry if you mean ringworm. If she's got that you need to get the cream treatment, if it gets on the scalp it can cause hairloss, which might be something to talk to her about, to help her avoid scratching Basically threadworm eggs are so small you don't see them.When someone has worms, they come out of the anus at night to lay their eggs. The movement of the worms causes intense itchiness, so the person scratches. This picks up the eggs under their nails. They then suck their fingers and the eggs are swallowed starting the cycle again. The reason why you treat everyone in the house is that some of the eggs may fall off the infected person's fingers round the house and someone else can pick them up. Obviously this can be happening at school too. >The nits DO come from school. She's gotten better at not putting her >head together with the other girls she plays with. It must have been >difficult for her but what I think did it was that the word got out >around the school that some of the girls had nits. So now she prides >herself on 'not' putting her head near her friends and 'enjoys' the >nit free status. Good start! Keep encouraging her and do praise her for doing this. >I am looked at really horribly for saying anything or pointing it out >to her when she does this. <grin> Yes, my older 2 give a great glare when I remind them something they should be doing. Try grinning back at them. >One thing that I did not mention anywhere (becuase it wasn't the >question at hand) was that the kids have seen their mom & dad being [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >(apparntly) but with me, they do have more stability. ...it just >when I have to point out things that embarras them (her). Try getting "Calvin and Hobbs-Revenge of the babysat". May make them seem tame in comparison! >Anyways, thanks very much for your time. I think things will get >better. Her mom has agreed that something does need to be done now. >I like to reward scheme you mentioned. I will try that. Good luck. Hope all improves. Debbie > Are you talking about threadworms? I'm guessing you don't know the life > cycle of them if you are. I'm not meaning to be patronizing, if I've [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > fingers round the house and someone else can pick them up. Obviously this > can be happening at school too. I believe what you are describing is called pinworms also. That can be hard to get rid of! I've dealt with it before. And you're right that the whole family has to be treated. You scratch your butt unknowingly while asleep so it's very easy to spread it. Wash hands and bottom first thing out of the bed, wear tight undies to bed and wash them when you get up each morning(this helps prevent the worms/eggs from getting on the bed or anywhere else, helps them stay confined to the underwear). Vasoline helps the itching at night also. Marie > Hi -- > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would > like me to reply. Hi Beth, Thank you so much for getting back to me. We've been living in the same house/terrace since last August but I've been with their mother for two years. I was renting just a room in London were we all stayed on the weekends. It was cramped and we went through various adjustments etc... but we all seemed really ok with each other. But my step daughter 'still' had these habits. We weren't doing too badly until the baby came which has taken all of our time. however, we had encouraged the kids to interact with the baby. We may have missed out on a few things with them. ...this easter break they were pretty much unshaperoned when outside out of site due to the new baby. They were cocky, arrogent, they ignored us and showed off a lot in front of their friends etc... I dont' doubt it has something to do with their lives and the new baby. ...I'll only add that I have always been resented when telling them to close their mounths when chewing food. And I only began doing this sincd we all moved in toegether and started eating, like a family, at the dinner table. I've had many arguments with their mother for not teaching them these habits at an earlier ege. I will consult with our church and try to find someone for my step daughter to talk to. Kids are hard to open up! They rarely ever know themselves why they do what they do. My main thing to do was to find out if the frequency of this is normal or not. I gather from you email, that these regular occurances are not normal and I now can try and move forward with their mother and trying to address what is behind all of this. Best wishes, Daniel On Apr 23, 12:37 pm, zzzdaniel...@gmail.com wrote: > My main thing to do was to find out if the frequency of this is normal > or not. No, that's not the "main" thing. What fraction defines "normal"? Is your step-daughter OK if 1%, 5%, or 25% of other kids have the same problem? Once upon a time, before Joseph Lister http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lister , it was "normal" for surgeons not to wash their hands before operating, and lots of people died from infections. As others have said, you need to push your daughter to adopt better hygiene, for her own sake, for her family, for and her classmates. > On Apr 23, 12:37 pm, zzzdaniel...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > As others have said, you need to push your daughter to adopt better > hygiene, for her own sake, for her family, for and her classmates. Hi, Thanks for your reply! It's not so much the percentages that I'm using for evaulating. The argument I was having was weather what my step daughter is getting is considered normal. You are right that the end goal is to improve her hygiene. She may have a weaker immune system but she get's these worms or other 'internal' because she keeps scratching her face and putting her fingers in her mouth. My highest concern has to be for the baby who is only 7 weeks old. These talks have helped me quite a bit though! My plan to get everyone in the house to use better hygiene habits but I first needed to point out or 'prove' that there are in fact issues with this. Thanks very much, Daniel >These talks have helped me quite a bit though! My plan to get >everyone in the house to use better hygiene habits but I first needed >to point out or 'prove' that there are in fact issues with this. I have to say here that if I lived with a child who chewed with his/her mouth open, I would *insist* that he/she learn to chew with it closed. That is just something I won't put up with. My neice comes to spend the weekend, and she sits there smacking her mouth for 30 minutes and I HAVE to say something to her. She has never even been told at her house that it's rude to eat in that manner! Also, I feel the need to say that just because you are a step-father does not mean you have no say in anything. My husband was step-father to 2 of my children before he adopted them(no father in the picture at all though) so I say this with my experience in mind. Everyone knows how important father figures are, to both girls and boys, so I feel it's important that you be more than some guy who lives in the same house they grow up in. Some of the problems may stem from problems with the situation, I don't know enough to say much about that, but being a step-parent doesn't mean you're a nobody who doesn't deserve to help parent these kids. When I was growing up, my mom's step-mother was my closest grandparent and the one I went to when I had problems. I felt safest with her and she wasn't even "blood" but she was every bit family as my grandfather. Marie >>These talks have helped me quite a bit though! My plan to get >>everyone in the house to use better hygiene habits but I first needed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to say something to her. She has never even been told at her house that > it's rude to eat in that manner! It really depends. DS would eat with his mouth open. When I told him to eat with it closed, he would do it for a short time and look like he was having difficulty. I asked his pediatric dentist, who told me the way the jaw formed, it is difficult for some children to eat with their mouths closed until they develop more, so I let the matter drop and he is much better at it now that he's older. I would make sure the child isn't chewing the way she is because of a medical/dental issue before making it a huge issue. > Also, I feel the need to say that just because you are a step-father does > not mean you have no say in anything. My husband was step-father to 2 of > my children before he adopted them(no father in the picture at all though) > so I say this with my experience in mind. It depends on how old the children are when step-parent steps into the picture and how long the step-parent is around before taking over and if the other parent is still in the picture. >> Hi -- >I dont' doubt it has something to do with their lives and the new >baby. ...I'll only add that I have always been resented when telling >them to close their mounths when chewing food. Which is why you leave it to their mother to do that. >And I only began doing >this sincd we all moved in toegether and started eating, like a >family, at the dinner table. I've had many arguments with their >mother for not teaching them these habits at an earlier ege. So you had an issue on that before. What did you think would happen. Really - post to the step-parents group. Theyre the ones with the experience, from all viewpoints. >I will consult with our church and try to find someone for my step >daughter to talk to. Kids are hard to open up! They rarely ever know [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >not normal and I now can try and move forward with their mother and >trying to address what is behind all of this. That wasn't an email, that was a Usenet post viewable by the whole world. Just to make sure you know that.. The regular occurances of lice isnt normal - the whole household needs to address that. Things like getting a intestinal virus is completely normal. Having not-great personal habits at that age is normal (but needs to be worked on). Having increased problems due to large changes in the household, which your step kids had no choice in and they have lost attention (as you admit) and resources because of it, is also completely normal. That's what Beth was addressing. That would be difficult for a mature adult to deal with, let alone a child with few coping skills. Really - post to the step parenting group. Banty > Things like getting a intestinal virus is completely normal. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Banty Exactly agree. Also - check with the ped. If her mouth is always open it might be because it is hard to breath with it closed. > > Things like getting a intestinal virus is completely normal. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hi, Thanks for your reply. We will definately put more attention on all of the issues. Not being able to breath very well hadn't occurd to me, however, I have seen her also close her mouth and hasn't had any problems. ...but I will bring it up with their mom and look into it further. Best wishes, Daniel >Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >She resents me for pointing out that she's putting her figures in her >mouth again etc... On the way home, it occurred to me that possibly these two things (and generally being run down) could be connected to allergies. Have you brought this up with your pediatrician? This should be simple to evaluate. Banty "...I am looked at really horribly for saying anything or pointing it out to her when she does this." You mentioned that you are viewed as being 'mean'. I doubt that you are mean, but it doesn't hurt to examine the way you try to correct your step-daughter. First of all, you mentioned several bad habits, and there are probably just as many that you didn't mention. Which makes me wonder if maybe she is hearing WAY too much, 'You shouldn't do this, stop doing that, etc.' Also, maybe she thinks that all you are really saying is 'Don't do (such and such) because I don't like it.' And if she resents you at all, then she is not going to stop just to please you. Your concern about the bad table manners has to motivated by concern for her welfare more than by the 'eww, not at my table' factor (although I sympathize with you - it stinks to prepare a meal and then have to see/hear crude behavior during the meal). Poor table manners, if not corrected, can lower a person's social standing in their adult life. My mom insisted on proper table manners, and we kids were pretty cooperative, but had our moments. A big motivator my mom used was telling us about the charm school she had attended as a girl. She made good manners seem glamorous, and in our best interest. The scratching... it sounds like a nervous habit. When I was little, my home had a lot of tension at times. I had a hair-twirling habit.... I'd take a bunch of my hair and wrap it around and around until my finger was wound up tight. It made alot of snarls in my hair. Some kids have more benign habits, like rubbing a soft favorite blanket.... or they channel their stress into a hobby like drawing. If I could travel through time and be a sort of 'fairy godmother' to my childhood self, like some nice aunt, I think when I saw the girl twirling her hair, I would distract her instead of chiding. Try to draw her out, and don't even mention the scratching. This is what you do with toddlers when they are doing something they shouldn't do, but it works with anyone. If you see her sitting on the couch, scratching her face, call to her in a friendly tone, and draw her into something that you can share together. Tell her your arms are sooo tired from holding the baby, and ask her if she'd do you a favor and help with her little sister. That's 2 or 3 birds with one stone!: 1.)she stops scratching 2.)she feels good about helping, and feeling good brings her stress-level down 3.) she bonds more with the baby 4.) 9-yr-old girls really are an AWESOME help with babies!!! And it will be easier for you to see her as a great person in your life instead of a huge responsibility with tons of problems that were caused by the former marriage, etc.. Forgive me for my writing style - I tend to GIVE DIRECTIONS. I love little girls, and I wish I had more of them in my life (see my screen name, lol). I think you have a great opportunity to help a stressed-out little girl, and build a lifelong relationship in the process. Good luck! |
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