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Family Forum / Parenting / Parenting / May 2008DS 4 1/2 but uncomfortable in current school
My son has become bored in current school and is acting out in a way which makes me feel I don't want him to go back there next year as I have decided to send him to a private school for K-8 the following year. He was tested and while very bright this K-8 school feels he could use another year before going to their school. Being it is so late in the year to get into another school around here and even finding one which is not cost-prohibitive and he is technically the right age for public K, I was thinking maybe to send him to public K (which is half day in our town)...and then move him over to the private K the following year. The time in school, pre-K or K would be about the same yet he would get more structure. Does anyone think this is a good idea, bad idea and why? I'd appreciate the input. being pragmatic, if his current school isn't working and his future school won't have him yet then public K seems a reasonable option. Just one thing, when was he tested/interviewed by the private school, maybe he's made a developmental leap and if they looked at him again he would be ready. The other thing to consider is what if public K doesn't work out, will you be able to just pull him out, or is it needed as part of how you managed childcare, will pulling him out have a bad effect on him? Cheers Anne > being pragmatic, if his current school isn't working and his future > school won't have him yet then public K seems a reasonable option. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheers > Anne You bring up good points. I'm less worried about my time right now...I just want to do what is right for him developmentallyand since K in my town is from 9-11:30 w/ basically more structure than pre-K and in line with his current learning abilities...it seems like it could be a good fit. If I pull him out because it isn't working I will have to make sure I have other options lined up for him...to occupy his time both socially and cerebrally. Gosh. When I was growing up pre-school was unheard of...now so many decisions! This is stream of consciousness writing (you are privvy to my internal dialogue!) > My son has become bored in current school and is acting out in a way > which makes me feel I don't want him to go back there next year as I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Does anyone think this is a good idea, bad idea and why? I'd > appreciate the input. Maybe he's too young or unable to cope with his current school and that's why he acts out. He could also lack discipline. I would wait till next year and put him in public school. There is no difference between private and public. It's the parents that make the difference between a smart high achieving kid and an unitelligent kid who acts out in class. Regards... " There is no difference between private and public." I think a huge difference is that the public schools have all the kids whose parents don't make the effort, and therefore the teachers are more harried and spend more time with discipline issues. M2M, maybe you could just keep him home a little longer? You mentioned the 'acting out', but you didn't give any details. > " There is no difference between private and public." > > I think a huge difference is that the public schools have all the kids > whose parents don't make the effort, and therefore the teachers are > more harried and spend more time with discipline issues. It all depends on the area. Of course, private schools have the option of kicking out unruly kids, but I'm not sure how often they do that. After all, it is money, unless the kid is so unruly that other parents threaten to pull their children out. Some private schools are great, but the concern around here is if you put your kid in private school only for a few years, will the child be behind when s/he goes to public school? Surprisingly, around here, the answer is yes. DH went to private school until his parents found out SIL's teacher didn't like math and therefore chose not to teach it. The school backed the teachers choice, so they took DH and SIL out and SIL was behind the next year in math. DH's family is full of teachers and their opinion is that private schools are not all that just because they are private. > M2M, maybe you could just keep him home a little longer? You > mentioned the 'acting out', but you didn't give any details. People who spend the money for private school are not typically the kind of people who let their kids run wild. I do think I am right: public schoolteachers spend a lot more time with discipline. My boys go to public schools. When I don't like how things are going for a certain kid, I homeschool them. > People who spend the money for private school are not typically the > kind of people who let their kids run wild. I do think I am right: > public schoolteachers spend a lot more time with discipline. > My boys go to public schools. When I don't like how things are > going for a certain kid, I homeschool them. Assuming if that was true (which I doubt), it is up to you as a parent to go over your child's studies to make sure he/she understood today's lesson plan. So if you were to do that on a daily basis, then it wouldn't matter if your kids were in a private or public school. I think, as parents, we should hold the responsibility of our child's education instead of blamming our kid's behavior and poor performance on schools, teachers, ADD or whatever. If your sweet little angle f.cked up today, you will have to seek out the sins of the situation instead of blaming the devil. Regards... > > People who spend the money for private school are not typically the > > kind of people who let their kids run wild. I do think I am right: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > lesson plan. So if you were to do that on a daily basis, then it > wouldn't matter if your kids were in a private or public school. That's an unrealistic standard, and I don't think it is necessary. In the U.S. lots of immigrant families from Asia have parents whose English may be poor and education limited. I don't know how well they can monitor what is being taught, but they do value education and they impart that attitude to their children. The parents may be working in dry-cleaners and convenience stores, but that's not what they want for their kids. > That's an unrealistic standard, and I don't think it is necessary. In > the U.S. lots of immigrant families from Asia have parents whose [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dry-cleaners and convenience stores, but that's not what they want for > their kids. Absolutely, at the information meeting for our local public school we were the only white family there and we're not Americans, the balance was not at all representative of the mix of the area, which does have a high proportion of Indians, but it did suggest that across the rough economic status (one of the poorer areas of the district, but it is a rich district) of the area that education might be valued more by some ethnic groups over others. The preschool we use is very close by and there isn't any others particularly close, it's a Christian school and the children are a mix of local children, i.e. Indian, other than us and one other family and white Americans that travel a significant distance to us it and it's a popular school, the waiting lists are about the same length as the actual class sizes, so those Indian parents are not just going there because it's there, they are choosing it and often making a significant effort to choose it. If you look closely, you can see how the superficial involvement and interest and what not seems different, but they wouldn't be there and paying to be there if they didn't think it was important for them to be there. Cheers Anne > > > People who spend the money for private school are not typically the > > > kind of people who let their kids run wild. I do think I am right: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > That's an unrealistic standard, and I don't think it is necessary. You gotta be kidding! >In > the U.S. lots of immigrant families from Asia have parents whose [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dry-cleaners and convenience stores, but that's not what they want for > their kids. And that is fine, as long as they make time for their kids to go over their study materials. I have first hand experience of what you describe as my parents came to this country when I was only 2 years old and they spoke very little English at the time. Regards... > People who spend the money for private school are not typically the > kind of people who let their kids run wild. I do think I am right: > public schoolteachers spend a lot more time with discipline. > My boys go to public schools. When I don't like how things are > going for a certain kid, I homeschool them. Do you pull them for a year and then return them later? How do you homeschool them "when you don't like how things are going" vs all the time? Hi, again -- Why shouldn't you be sure of the curriculum at a different preschool? Go in and ask lots of questions! Then choose the program you think will work best. Alternately, get in touch with your local homeschooling community and see if parents there are trying to solve the kinds of problems you're experiencing with school. I know many homeschool families which had problems keeping their bright kids stimulated, and so homeschooled for one or several years, then returned to a more traditional educational environment when that looked as though it would work better for their child(ren). We are fortunate that, where we live, there are excellent choices in both public and private schools, so we've gone from a very stimulating preschool through public magnet programs to a whole-child oriented private school, and who knows what will come next? GO ASK about the curriculum! --Beth Kevles bethkevles@gmail.PUT-THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. > > " There is no difference between private and public." > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > all, it is money, unless the kid is so unruly that other parents threaten to > pull their children out. Therre are good and bad public and private schools at all levels from elementary school through college. If a family thinks there are private schools that are better than the public ones, but it is reluctant to pay for private schools for all grades K-12, the question is in which grades private schools offer the most value. Some books on educating gifted children say it makes more sense to pay for private school in junior high and high school, because there is less difference in what is taught in the earlier grades between public and private schools. > Therre are good and bad public and private schools at all levels from > elementary school through college. If a family thinks there are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > difference in what is taught in the earlier grades between public and > private schools. seems like that is common in the UK, with the highest number in private school being the 14-16 age group. It drops off a little at 16-18, I think because private schools are often smaller and don't have such a wide range of curriculum offerings, my mum teaches in private school, they tend to lose around a quarter of their students going from pre 16 to post 16, almost all to the local sixth form college and gain a handful 5-10% of the new total who either want to do subjects that the local colleges hasn't performed well at in the recent past. The class size is indesputably smaller, not just because there may only be a handful doing a given subject but also by choice, aiming for around 10 per class and averaging less than that. No idea about the pattern of when most people go in this part of the US (WA), but having chosen private K for DS, class size was the main factor, this choice probably has the side effect of removing some of our other concerns, but a lot of those concerns would likely have been much diminished anyway had the class size been comparable. Cheers Anne > " There is no difference between private and public." > > I think a huge difference is that the public schools have all the kids > whose parents don't make the effort, and therefore the teachers are > more harried and spend more time with discipline issues. You haven't seen the public schools in my city. I live in a very expensive area where most of the parents are very educated and in high paying positions. The kids are very competitve because most of the parents actually are involved in the success of their children. http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Irvine-California.aspx#7 Which goes to prove my point. If, as a parent, you are involved with your children, then it wouldn't matter if they are in a poor public school or a high priced private school. The education material is usually the same. > M2M, maybe you could just keep him home a little longer? You > mentioned the 'acting out', but you didn't give any details. Agreed. Especially since kids usually act out of boredom later on in school. Regards... agsf_57 <agsf_57@yahoo.com> wrote in news:490a27c0-a4f1-4de6-b643-c20c5ae003ea@u6g2000prc.googlegro ups.com: > Which goes to prove my point. If, as a parent, you are > involved with your children, then it wouldn't matter if > they are in a poor public school or a high priced private > school. The education material is usually the same. actually, no, it's not. each district has different educational "goals"/materials/educated teachers. also, i prefer my child receive a "classic" education, which includes music, art, drama, elocution, foreign language, etc., not just "teach to the test" coverage of reading & maths, with barely a smatter of science or history (he's in 2nd grade this year) in order for my son to reach *my* educational goals for him, he attends a private school & i also teach him additional things such as cooking & woodworking at home. lee <he wants an arc welder...>  SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. > agsf_57 <agsf...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:490a27c0-a4f1-4de6-b643-c20c5ae003ea@u6g2000prc.googlegro > ups.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > things such as cooking & woodworking at home. > lee <he wants an arc welder...> And my point is you could teach them these things without a private school. Satar agsf_57 <agsf_57@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1c92e5b7-9635-4d17-897e-0d509a6f29db@f36g2000hsa.googlegr oups.com: >> agsf_57 <agsf...@yahoo.com> wrote >> innews:490a27c0-a4f1-4de6-b643-c20c5ae003ea@u6g2000prc.goog [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > And my point is you could teach them these things without a > private school. and *my* point is that if you want your kids to be educated, *you* have to teach them... so *why* are we paying so damn much for so damn little? babysitting? if i have to teach my kid anyway, i might as well homeschool & not waste his time with busywork, right? i can cover the entire public school day curriculum in less than 3 hours, giving my kid lots more time for interesting extracurricular activities. so why do i send him to private school? because i live in a rural area with NO other kids for miles. while i'm not so fond of social interaction, it doesn't mean my child isn't. basicly i'm paying for social networking on the elementary level. why can't i use the local public school for that? because it's infested with people whose religious persuasion doesn't mesh with mine & i don't want my kid shunned for not being part of "god's army". seriously. lee <they have church & state issues> SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. > between private and public. It's the parents that make the difference > between a smart high achieving kid and an unitelligent kid who acts > out in class. I don't think you meant to, but it sounds like an insult to OP. Kids acting out in class is not always because of parents who don't care. Kids who act out are not necessarily unintelligent. > > between private and public. It's the parents that make the difference > > between a smart high achieving kid and an unitelligent kid who acts > > out in class. > > I don't think you meant to, but it sounds like an insult to OP. No intention of anything. > Kids acting > out in class is not always because of parents who don't care. Actually I disagree. If the child acts out in class, then the situation needs to be analyzed and responded to. > Kids who act > out are not necessarily unintelligent. Maybe "unitelligent" was a poor choice. How about lethargic? Regards... Hi -- It would probably help if you explain just HOW your child is acting out in class, a little bit about what the class is like, and how the class for next year would differ from the current class if he attends his current school, or if he attends the public kindy. If you have access to a play-based curriculum with lots of hands-on learning offered, that's usually the ideal situation for a 4 1/2 year old. A desk- and worksheet-based curriculum is usually a poor choice for this age group (although a good teacher can make it work). "Acting out" can have as many different definitions as it has causes. Do you mean hitting other kids? Talking out of turn? Wandering around th classroom at circle time? And as for causes ... Your child may need more sleep, or more physical activity at or after school, or more stimulation, or help with social issues, or it could be an early warning of hyperactivity, or .... or ... or... There are many possibilities! If you care to share more information you may get more helpful, targeted responses. I hope these thoughts help, --Beth Kevles bethkevles@gmail.PUT-THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. > Hi -- > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would > like me to reply. Thank you Beth. Comments which are discussing intelligence, or lack there of, laziness on the part of the child or the parent or lack of involvement by the parent or such or bringing in the public or private debate are off point. The question is about between age 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 what is the best environment for him. One option I considered was putting him in public pre-K rather than remaining at his current school where he seems to be 'bored' and as such is acting up in school. I'm not worried about child-care management. I am concerned about keeping him involved with other children in a structured way. I'm not worried about his education, he's well above normal. I am worried about his level of stimulation. When he is stimulated, he is engaged and there is no 'acting out.' Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will once, again, be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him with K for one year before he goes to his private school? (I'd appreciate not debating public vs private) Thanks. >> Hi -- >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >involvement by the parent or such or bringing in the public or private >debate are off point. That's a great way to handle that stuff - just point out that they're off point. Now, this is a discussion forum and you can't (and shouldn't try) to stop it, but you don't have to jump into it. >The question is about between age 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 what is the best >environment for him. One option I considered was putting him in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >level of stimulation. When he is stimulated, he is engaged and there >is no 'acting out.' You're concerned about switching him out since you plan to come back? I don't think that is a big deal. You don't know (none of us do) exactly how the various options would work out. There are lots of decisions like this in raising kids ;-) But if the public K is by accounts of others in your neighborhood reasonable, I'd just go for that. >Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will once, again, >be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him with K for one year >before he goes to his private school? (I'd appreciate not debating >public vs private) I take it this current program in his prospective private school? I'm wondering - if he so evidently needs challenge, why does the private school you plan advise that he wait a year? Do they advise that for a high percentage of kids? Especially, do they advise that for a high percentage of boys? Because that recommendation does not jive with your description. You know, having somewhat higher test scores from sitting an older set of children to the test at some future grade, a better education does not make. This might not be the last mismatch between reality and the philosophy of the private school you've chosen, either. Just something to consider. Banty > In article <fe980c51-64f6-4cbc-8428-82c4b116c...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > M2M says... [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > - Show quoted text - They have a fairly strict October 1 cut off and my son is late December. I'm not concerned about this. I've been to this school several times and it is wonderful for a variety of reasons, very welcoming and no matter when I go through the school , scheduled or not, the kids in every classroom are vibrant, happy and engaged. As far as a new school's curriculum. The problem I face it is so late in the year...many of the schools I would consider are already filled up...there aren't many choices or, alternatively, very expensive choices I do not have the luxury to consider...nor are they necessarily right. This is why the public K option came up...... I've considered keeping him home next year and integrating a lot of non-school based programs instead of pre-school and a few programs....that's why I was curious about others' experiences. >> In article <fe980c51-64f6-4cbc-8428-82c4b116c...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.= >com>, [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] >welcoming and no matter when I go through the school , scheduled or >not, the kids in every classroom are vibrant, happy and engaged. OK. That sounds great. >As far as a new school's curriculum. The problem I face it is so late >in the year...many of the schools I would consider are already filled [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >non-school based programs instead of pre-school and a few >programs....that's why I was curious about others' experiences. The public K (any K program I think) is all about making a transition from home to school, while giving some early skills. He might be bored whatever you do. If your other preferred options are already closed, what's to distinguish between your remaining options? That's the main question, I think. There's no reason *not* to go the public school option - you can back out later and keep him occupied at home best you can. No loss to that path. Banty > In article <24c5d84c-267f-4e8b-8738-2a7d5b91b...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > M2M says... [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] > > Banty I'm actually off to the elementary school today to learn about it and keep the option open. And if he is bored the following year in K or they think he is ready they are totally amenable to putting him the first grade. The more I'm thinking about it my husband and I may consider multiple 'programs' outside of pre-school, get a handle on what they learn in pre-k (technically have him eligible for enrollment) and start gearing his education towards the curriculum....just blue-skying....and through the programs incorporate playdates from the new friends he will make, etc. for more socializing...the only thing is I think he will feel strange not being in 'school' while everyone else is. Just typing out loud. In article <24c5d84c-267f-4e8b-8738-2a7d5b91bd18@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > They have a fairly strict October 1 cut off and my son is late > December. I'm not concerned about this. I've been to this school > several times and it is wonderful for a variety of reasons, very > welcoming and no matter when I go through the school , scheduled or > not, the kids in every classroom are vibrant, happy and engaged. Well, that could mean that the school is a fantastic place. It could equally mean that anyone who isn't kept happy and engaged by the work has been "encouraged to leave". I am very suspicious about the appearance of engaged kids on the one hand and the lack of enthusiasm to deal with your little guy on the other. SignatureChookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ >>Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will once, again, >>be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him with K for one year [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the > private school you've chosen, either. Just something to consider. At least here, several private schools automatically shuffle most of their 5 yr olds into "junior kindergarten", so as to make their students look better down the road. Now that may be all well and good (since most of their kids are a year older in each grade, the teachers presumably adjust for the developmental level of having their Ks effectively be 1st graders both in curriculum and age, and so on up), and it looks good to have such great AP class participation (of course most of the kids are doing college work as HS seniors-if they were public schooled, they'd BE IN COLLEGE!), and so on, and I'm sure it doesn't hurt for a 20K a year school to get an extra year out of each child. So, in that case, there would be little difference between a Public school Kindergarten and a private school Jr. Kindergarten as far as curriculum and expectations go, and it may be that he WOULD be challenged in his current school because the expectations would change. It's also not uncommon for gifted kids to be deemed socially immature in the early grades, not because they're immature, but because they simply don't know how to show that they have different needs appropriately yet. I'm in the process of reviewing teacher recommendations for an "Enriched" summer program, and invariably, the kids who are being recommended are bright, compliant "joy in the classroom" little girls. However, when I observe in the classroom, the kids who come to me and talk about high level concepts and seem to be the ones who really would benefit by a more challenging program are often not recommended by their teachers, and the usual reasons are things like "He can't even sit still in group time. Why would you want him?" or "She's always off in space somewhere-why would you want her?". > >>Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will once, again, > >>be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him with K for one year [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Donna, You hit the nail on the head. He doesn't know how to show he has different needs and his needs are not necessarily being recognized. The teacher is more concerned he 'puts on a face' when he doesn't want to do something mundane while everyone else is compliant and 'gives in abundance.' The classroom he is in is girl-dominant, slightly younger, a significant portion of children where English is the second language and one child who needs one teacher all the time. The dynamics are off. The other day my son wanted to stay for Little Scientists (I was opting to bring him to the park each Wednesday instead after lunch bunch in order to have him spend a few hours in the park integrating with new kids running, playing ball. He started to cry and said, "But they are going to learn new things and I'm not." So, what is your recommendation? >> >>Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will once, again, >> >>be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him with K for one year [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > >So, what is your recommendation? HELLO! NOT to be shuffled off in yet another year of kindy because your particular school wants him older. Really, think through your whole plan again. Maybe you really shouldn't be so sold on this one private school. Batny > NOT to be shuffled off in yet another year of kindy because your particular > school wants him older. > > Really, think through your whole plan again. Maybe you really shouldn't be so > sold on this one private school. Yeah, even if the private, full day K covers more than the public, half day K, it's very unlikely that a kid who's already acting out in boredom isn't going to be bored out of his mind repeating kindergarten. The private school may will have an earlier cutoff date and policies that encourage academic red shirting so that they, on average, deal with fewer behavioral issues and fewer struggling kids, but that may not meet the needs of a significantly brighter than average kid who missing their age cutoff by only a couple of months. Even a school that has a lot of other great things going for it may not meet the needs of a child whose situation is outside the norm. I don't know how outside the norm your child is, if at all. But if he is significantly outside the norm and he is experiencing the all too common side effects of that, you may need to be evaluating prospective schools with a different set of criteria that you might have first thought. Best wishes, Ericka >> NOT to be shuffled off in yet another year of kindy because your particular >> school wants him older. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >need to be evaluating prospective schools with a different set >of criteria that you might have first thought. Yeah. Although it may be late to fix it for the next year. At this point, with this information, I'd say consider unschooling him and homeschooling him for that intervening year, making sure his experiences are rich. While investigating schools for the following year, that he find a good first grade and further. Banty >>It's also not uncommon for gifted kids to be deemed socially immature in the >early grades, not because they're immature, but because they simply don't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >are things like "He can't even sit still in group time. Why would you want >him?" or "She's always off in space somewhere-why would you want her?". That was me - "off in space somewhere". I even got sent to outpatient psychiatric evaluation for being "off in space somewhere". And talking back to a teacher once. Banty > It's also not uncommon for gifted kids to be deemed socially immature in the > early grades, not because they're immature, but because they simply don't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are things like "He can't even sit still in group time. Why would you want > him?" or "She's always off in space somewhere-why would you want her?". Elementary school report cards evaluate a student on two dimensions, behavior and academic progress. I wonder if students who are not so well-behaved get penalized in both areas. My son, justifiably, got several "needs improvement" grades regarding behavioral goals such as paying attention in class, and on *all* of the academic criteria he got the middle grade "meets expectations", even though "exceeds expectations" (E) on most of them (according to my wife and me, having observed him). When my wife asked his teacher why he did not get any E's, she pointed to his behavior. Of course, kindergarten report cards have low stakes, but since we are going to transfer him to another school eventually, trying to retain his accelerated placement (he started kindergarten at 4), we'd like the report card to reflect where he is. An advantage of standardized tests is that allow one to separate academic achievement from behavioral matters (not that behavior is unimportant) and that they are independent of the teacher. M2M <sgaylec@gmail.com> wrote in news:fe980c51-64f6-4cbc-8428-82c4b116c605@l42g2000hsc.googlegr oups.com: > Therefore, do I seek out another pre-school where I will > once, again, be unsure of the 'curriculum' or challenge him > with K for one year before he goes to his private school? > (I'd appreciate not debating public vs private) a good preschool should allow you to observe a classroom in session & be willing to discuss what they teach & how. my fear would be, if you send him to public kindy & then put him in the private school kindergarten, that he would be bored repeating the material. if he goes to the public kindergarten, will the private school allow him to progress to first grade if he is ready? lee SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. >> > between private and public. It's the parents that make the difference >> > between a smart high achieving kid and an unitelligent kid who acts [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Actually I disagree. If the child acts out in class, then the > situation needs to be analyzed and responded to. Yes, but how does it mean that they are acting out because of parents who don't care? The parents may be actively trying to analyze and respond to the situation. Kid still acts out. We get posts on that here. The parents care (not always, but kid acting out does not always equal parent doesn't care). >>> between private and public. It's the parents that make the >>> difference between a smart high achieving kid and an unitelligent [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Regards... Or how about responding to inappropriate methods of instruction or discipline? > My son has become bored in current school and is acting out in a way > which makes me feel I don't want him to go back there next year as I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Does anyone think this is a good idea, bad idea and why? I'd > appreciate the input. Friends of mine have done something similar as a way of red-shirting. The only issue I saw was that their daughter was very bright and ended up being very bored by repeating Kindergarten in the private school. The parents often complained that the private K teacher wasn’t challenging her enough, which I thought they should have been better able to anticipate. If he’s bored now, you might be in the same situation again when he repeats K. Even if it's in a different school, they'll still be working on a lot of the same things. That being said though, we're considering doing something similar. My son is also 4 1/2 and misses the public school cut-off for K this year. He's so ready for school though. We may put him in private K this fall, where they are more flexible on age. We eventually want him in public school, so the following year we would enroll him in public K and then have to petition to move him to 1st grade if we get backing from the K teacher after she's had a few weeks to observe him. Annie > Friends of mine have done something similar as a way of red-shirting. > The only issue I saw was that their daughter was very bright and ended [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > son is also 4 1/2 and misses the public school cut-off for K this > year. I live in Massachusetts, and most school districts say on their web sites that they have a strict age cut-off, usually that a child be 5 by September 1. My wife called our local public elementary school, and they said they will test students for early admission, but that they would not conisider my son, who was born in July (we want to advance him nearly a full year). Maybe the hard cut-off is really January 1 if parents push and the child tests well. I think our local school district is a bit dishonest in how it presents its admission policy. If the actual policy is that they will consider kids with October birthdays for kindegarten, if they test well, they ought to put that in writing, on the web and elsewhere. Maybe your school district's age cutoff is less rigid than it appears. > He's so ready for school though. We may put him in private K > this fall, where they are more flexible on age. We eventually want > him in public school, so the following year we would enroll him in > public K and then have to petition to move him to 1st grade if we get > backing from the K teacher after she's had a few weeks to observe him. The superintendent of our school district wrote in an email that age cut-offs apply to kindergarten and 1st grade, but that there is no official policy for entrance to 2nd grade. If your district is similar, you may need to send your child to private school for KG and 1st grade. > Annie > I think our local school > district is a bit dishonest in how it presents its admission policy. > If the actual policy is that they will consider kids with October > birthdays for kindegarten, if they test well, they ought to put that > in writing, on the web and elsewhere. Maybe there is a fear the policy was published as x, but y if test scores acheived there would be a fear of a huge burden of testing and a climate change to it being instead of "passing in", but "failing out". I suspect that complete openness on the availability of testing for birthdays in the following few months, would be badly received by the general public and the costs would be significant, perhaps a discreet testing program for those that ask is preferable to a rigid sticking to the earlier cutoff. The UK seems to stick to it's cutoffs with absolute rigidity, to the extent that twins born either side of midnight the relevant night would be in separate year groups. Redshirting is almost non existant and only seems to happen if there has been significant illness, international relocation, that kind of thing. Acceleration is fractionally more common, but still almost unheard of in the public system (may have changed in the very recent past) and mostly limited to private schools and then often only by taking a jump at age 11, by passing a purely academic exam. Overall it seems UK and US schools have similar results, both worse than mainland Europe, so on that basis there doesn't seem to be an arguement for either rigidity or flexibility working particularly well over a whole population. Base on a school year change of 31 Aug in the UK, I deliberately planned my kids to have spring/summer birthdays, may sound crazy, but it seemed to make sense, they'd have to be crazy bright and early developers for acceleration to be beneficial, I was less concered about emotional and social immaturity, but wanted to avoid being too close to the date either. I don't know how that would have panned out if conceiving them had gone any differently, I doubt I'd have decided to take a break, but after producing one on 28th May, decided that time of year was so ideal we'd aim for it again and managed to have the 2nd with the same due date as the first. So far it seems to have worked out quite well, our first is a boy and we do have a few concerns about maturity, but they aren't big ones and if we have a 3rd I would attempt to engineer things the same way, not wanting to be pregnant in the summer rather helps that! Cheers Anne > Overall it seems UK and US schools have similar results, both worse than mainland > Europe <snip> I'm not sure that's true, looking for example at the results of TIMSS at http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2005/2005005.pdf . Some states have given a procedure by which it's possible to test into a higher grade or enter K early. Unfortunately, I'm in one where the cutoff is set by state law, not only for K but for 1st grade as well. Which is why my DD (who misses the cutoff by about 6 weeks) is going to a private school which has Kindergarten for pre-K. We'll be looking closely next year, as will her teachers, to decide whether to enter her in K at 4 1/2 or whether to wait until she meets the legal cutoff for the public schools (and the stated ones for private schools). If we do that, she'll stay in private until at least the start of 2nd grade. From what I've seen, while many private schools will do this "off the books" almost no parents choose to even ask about it. It's a lot more common to hold your child out a year than to try to enter them early, and one of the schools we considered warned me that they could put her in K early, but their average kindergartener was 6 turning 7, so she'd be very young indeed in that school. The one she's going to doesn't seem to have as much redshirting going on, so she'd hopefully have a few kids in the class who would be within 3-4 months of her birthday, which really isn't a big stretch at all. It's pretty common here, in fact, for kids who are eligible for K to do a year of K at a private school and then one at a public school so that they'll do well in the public school when they get there, or to do a "pre-K 5" class privately which is essentially Kindergarten, but not called that. Parents are so worried about their child failing the reading test in 3rd grade that basically they're retaining their child in K proactively. And then, of course, the kindergarten teachers HAVE to provide higher level work in K, because the kids are so old! Heaven help the poor kid who just barely made the cutoff who's parents didn't get the memo. > Base on a school year change of 31 Aug in the UK, I deliberately > planned my kids to have spring/summer birthdays, may sound crazy, but > it seemed to make sense, they'd have to be crazy bright and early > developers for acceleration to be beneficial, I was less concered > about emotional and social immaturity, but wanted to avoid being too > close to the date either. Only just saw this and am curious - I'm not quite following why you felt that time of year would be a particularly beneficial time to be born wrt school? All the best, Sarah Signaturehttp://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell >> Base on a school year change of 31 Aug in the UK, I deliberately >> planned my kids to have spring/summer birthdays, may sound crazy, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that time of year would be a particularly beneficial time to be born wrt > school? I suspect it depends on your assumptions about your children's relative cleverness. A clever child, who is one of the youngest in the class, is not going to be bored in the same was as a clever child who is one of the oldest in the class. OTOH, one of my friends deliberately planned to have a child who was going to be one of the oldest: unfortunately, the child was born early, and was one of the youngest. FWIW, two of our children have been the youngest in their classes, and for them it has worked out well. But they haven't reached the teenage years yet... SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >> Base on a school year change of 31 Aug in the UK, I deliberately >> planned my kids to have spring/summer birthdays, may sound crazy, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that time of year would be a particularly beneficial time to be born wrt > school? She wanted them to be young-ish relative to their classmates, but not the youngest in the class. She didn't want to have kids on the older side with a developmental advantage perhaps putting them in a position where they'd be bored and she'd be having to consider accommodations (like acceleration) to keep them engaged and challenged at school. That said, I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning because a child bright enough to really require acceleration has probably got much more of an advantage than just a few months' developmental head start. On the other hand, I've sent one gifted kid with an August birthday off to school who probably still would have benefited from an earlier birthday on the social/emotional/ developmental front even though it wasn't necessary on the academic front. DD will start kindy next year with a summer birthday, so she'll also be on the young side in her class. I'm not totally sure how it will pan out for her. She's clearly cognitively ready, and is more mature than her brother was in some ways, but she's also still very wiggly and may have a few issues with fine motor control. Our situations have been complicated by ADHD issues, which does make a difference and obviously doesn't apply in all cases. Best wishes, Ericka > She wanted them to be young-ish relative to their classmates, > but not the youngest in the class. She didn't want to have kids on > the older side with a developmental advantage perhaps putting them > in a position where they'd be bored and she'd be having to consider > accommodations (like acceleration) to keep them engaged and challenged > at school. I think it could also backfire because the child may not be gifted and actually struggle because of being younger and not quite ready for the material. A few months can make a difference in such cases. > > Base on a school year change of 31 Aug in the UK, I deliberately > > planned my kids to have spring/summer birthdays, may sound crazy, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that time of year would be a particularly beneficial time to be born wrt > school? Conception, and not having a miscarriage, are hit-or-miss things, and deciding that only some months are suitable for conception will increase the chance that a couple has fewer children than it wanted. I think more intelligent children should start school earlier, but I also think the risk of not having as many children as one wanted is more serious. In the U.S. is that it saves a little money on taxes to have a child before January 1, because you can claim an extra dependent, may be eligible for the earned income tax credit, and can contribute to a tax- advantaged college savings plan a year earlier. IN my case, I was just glad to finally be pregnant, and to get through a pregancy with a living baby-even though it put DD on the wrong side of the school cutoff date. We're tentatively planning to send her to a private school for K-1 to get around the cutoff date problem, then come back to public school where there's more support for GT students after that point, since it looks extremely likely that she'll need it. There's nothing that the public school would do for her before 3rd grade that the private one won't do, since it's all done in class until 3rd anyway. I do have one friend who successfully planned BOTH her children so she gave birth very early in the summer. As a result, she didn't take one day of maternity leave with either pregnancy, and in both cases, went back to teaching in the fall. Her husband hadn't been successfully employed for some time, she had grandma locally as backup when DH did find jobs, and she was the only health insurance and stable income, but having married relatively late, did NOT want to wait to have children. SignatureDonna DeVore Metler Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor) >IN my case, I was just glad to finally be pregnant, and to get through a >pregancy with a living baby-even though it put DD on the wrong side of the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the only health insurance and stable income, but having married relatively >late, did NOT want to wait to have children. There are a LOT of April babies among the teachers at my school. The reason? We get six weeks of paid maternity leave, which takes an April mom pretty much to the end of the quarter, so she'll have almost five months at home with the baby before returning to teaching. If we had 12 weeks of maternity leave, I'm sure there would be a bunch of March babies. :-) One teacher has three kids with birthdays within a week or so in April. My twins were due in early April, but showed up in Feb. Well, at least I tried..... >>IN my case, I was just glad to finally be pregnant, and to get through a >>pregancy with a living baby-even though it put DD on the wrong side of the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > My twins were due in early April, but showed up in Feb. Well, at > least I tried..... Paid maternity leave? Must be nice. Ours is paid only as long as you use existing sick leave. >>>IN my case, I was just glad to finally be pregnant, and to get through a >>>pregancy with a living baby-even though it put DD on the wrong side of the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Paid maternity leave? Must be nice. Ours is paid only as long as you use >existing sick leave. I think they define it as sick leave. You don't get it if you adopt a kid, for example. No paternity leave. You don't get any extra if the six weeks extends into a vacation (not many summer babies around here!). Also, we don't acrue sick days, and aren't limited to a certain number per year. Instead, we have a pretty flexible sick leave policy that has the overall effect of having teachers take fewer days off. (Can't hoarde sick days and then take a long vacation, as you can at some other schools.) > I live in Massachusetts, and most school districts say on their web > sites that they have a strict age cut-off, usually that a child be 5 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Maybe your school district's age cutoff is less rigid than it appears. Our school district is very rigid on the cutoff date. We have talked to the principal and she has said there’s no way to test him for early admission. The daughter of a friend of ours is highly gifted, missed the date by one day, and was unable to get into K. They are the ones that actually gave us the idea of starting in private K and petitioning later. That’s what they had to do. > The superintendent of our school district wrote in an email that age > cut-offs apply to kindergarten and 1st grade, but that there is no > official policy for entrance to 2nd grade. If your district is > similar, you may need to send your child to private school for KG and > 1st grade. I think that’s our district’s official policy as well, but as I said, we know someone that’s already gone this route, so we think it would work. We’re still undecided though. Given how many boys are redshirted anymore, we could end up with DS being almost 2 full years behind his classmates. Even though he's big for his age and appears to be on the same track as his brothers (both are in full-time GT classes), I worry about the social dynamics of being so much younger than everyone else. Annie In article <5d9114e6-56d8-47cd-bf23-3b496261fd95@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > My son has become bored in current school and is acting out in a way > which makes me feel I don't want him to go back there next year as I > have decided to send him to a private school for K-8 the following > year. He was tested and while very bright this K-8 school feels he > could use another year before going to their school. Well, I hear alarm bells ringing right now. If he's bright enough, why are they keen to hold him back? What is their real record (actual numbers, as opposed to what they say they will do) wrt early entry, curriculum compaction and other forms of acceleration? The school might be excellent for the compliant and/or moderately gifted child, but not at all a good fit for a child who is more highly gifted than that, who requires some individualisation of learning. > Being it is so late in the year to get into another school around > here and even finding one which is not cost-prohibitive and he is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Does anyone think this is a good idea, bad idea and why? I'd > appreciate the input. If the problem is lack of intellectual stimulation, then two years of learning the same material is never going to be a good choice. SignatureChookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
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