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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / October 2008Ping Vickie: WOW
Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The situations discussed were eerily similar to how you've described things at your home, right down to one of the games that was being discussed (WOW). Anyway, I didn't know if you had seen it. They even had a lady on there who had written a book called "Game Widow" or something along those lines. It was interesting.  SignatureLauri in WA > Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > had a lady on there who had written a book called "Game Widow" or > something along those lines. It was interesting. No, I missed it. From all the things I have read and heard, we were pretty much the poster family for what happens when a spouse is addicted to an online game. Though I was not the longest to hold on with all I had to not break up the family, I still find myself wondering how I was able to last as long as I did. A new patch just came out for WOW. I was sure I heard half the world groan because of it. We had a poker game recently at the house, and one of the men started the same time as my husband. This man is still playing hard, so he is going on, what, close to 5 years straight. Though he was a big guy to start, he has gained even more weight. He says he has no life and he mentioned taking his vacation time specifically during "big raid or instance times" or like when this new patch came out, for the game. I keep sporadic tabs on how much my son and husband play. It is also the first thing to go if grounding happens or grades slip for DS. And anytime my DH starts in on my son about his lack of "skill" I step in, no holds bar. It is annoying as hell when we go out as a family to eat and they talk (WOW) shop. In any case, we have come a long way. My heart goes out to those who didn't make it through or are still miserably stuck in this kind of horrible, married to a mentally invisible spouse, limbo. For DH, he is still slowly realizing the depth of what he put us through and how long it is taking us to completely recover from it, if that is even possible. What was Dr. Phil's recommendation to the couples and families? I am really curious. Vickie >> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Vickie Vickie, You may want to go to drphil.com and look up the current shows to see what he had to say. It may help. I had my little addiction in my early 20's with all the Legend of Zelda games and I realized then it was not good. I made a conscious effort not to even get into WOW or The Matrix online games. In addition, based on your previous posts plus my experience, I have told many of the woman here at work not to even let their kids and/or husbands get near these types of games due to their addictive nature. mon > >> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > >> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > get near these types of games due to their > addictive nature. Not sure how far back you have looked at my posts, but things have come a long way. So, I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I am an advocate myself in cautioning people against gaming. I can't seem to help myself but because of my experiences it is hard to sit back and watch things go downhill. Vickie >>>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >>>> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Vickie Yeah. Isn't it though? But, C'est La Vie, pour Le Age De Enlightenmente. >>>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >>>> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > Not sure how far back you have looked at my posts, but things have > come a long way. So, I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I was not around for you first round of posts, but it was pretty easy to get the gist of things from the posts that I have read. > I am an advocate myself in cautioning people against gaming. I can't > seem to help myself but because of my experiences it is hard to sit > back and watch things go downhill. You bet. I spoke with a co-worker just last week about her son who is about 19. She mentioned WOW and I cautioned her about the pitfalls. > Vickie mon > >>>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > >>>> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What an interesting thread. I just took a quick peek at some of your profiles. I wonder how many messages a day/week/month would constitute an addiction to this group? Is that possible? Trix > > >>>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > > >>>> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Is that possible? Possible....I suppose. But there is a huge difference between gaming and posting to a group. The world of online gaming does not quit. It is real-time. There is no, "I solved it!" moment. There might be a time you might think you are coming close to doing all you can do, when the company releases a new version/patch/ extention/addition. Also most players are involved in guilds or groups, which means they are counting on you at any given time to help them win the raid/ instance/fight. Winning a fight can take hours and you still may lose, which then your commrades and you decide to go for it again. Not on another night, mind you, but straight away. And there are always new fights to be fought. Other gamers are counting on you and if you stop showing, you pretty much are out of the group, which then limits all sorts of things to help you advance in the game. And it is not just a bunch of the same characters fighting. They all have special talents and if you go into a fight without a certain number of each "type" and learn the right rhythm and order to do the fighting in, you are looking at losing over and over. When I post to usenet, I sit when I feel like it or have the time and post. In between, my life goes on. If I have to get up to help my child do his/her homework, I can. In a gamers world you cannot. You cannot just get up and leave and come back when your real life slows down in a few minutes. The fight is over and you lost the loot and your gamer friends are pissed because you have probably lost it for them too. My DH would come home from work, would maybe eat dinner with us, then go straight to putting on headphones and checking out until 4am or so. We would walk by him a hundred times a night and he never looked up. And when we had a committment outside the home, he was anxious to get back. I hope I am getting across to you how severe this addiction can be. I suppose someone can get addicted to posting groups, but I am not sure it is as easy for that to happen. Vickie >>>>>>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >>>>>>> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] > And when we had a committment outside the home, he was anxious to get > back. Geesh. You DO realize how pathetic this is, don't you? Tell me it's not (yet another) sign of the times. > I hope I am getting across to you how severe this addiction can be. THAT (above) sounds damn severe. And maybe right up there with a drug or alcohol addiction. > I suppose someone can get addicted to posting groups, but I am not > sure it is as easy for that to happen. > > Vickie Not like the above gaming thing (and just as you pointed out). On Oct 22, 6:56 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Vickiewrote: > [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > Geesh. You DO realize how pathetic this is, don't you? Tell me it's not > (yet another) sign of the times. I guess not any more pathetic than other reasons spouses completely ignore one another. > > I hope I am getting across to you how severe this addiction can be. > > THAT (above) sounds damn severe. And maybe right up there with a drug or > alcohol addiction. Yeah. Alcohol and drug addiction can hurt the addict or someone else physically. With gaming addiction, I think of it more like gambling addiction. But in all the above addictions, people lose families, jobs, basically a life over this stuff. > > I suppose someone can get addicted to posting groups, but I am not > > sure it is as easy for that to happen. > > >Vickie > > Not like the above gaming thing (and just as you pointed out).- Hide quoted text - I dont think it would be like gaming addiction either, really. Vickie > On Oct 22, 6:56 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] > I guess not any more pathetic than other reasons spouses completely > ignore one another. Point taken. And that isn't all that uncommon either, is it. :-( >>> I hope I am getting across to you how severe this addiction can be. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But in all the above addictions, people lose families, jobs, basically > a life over this stuff. And often themselves in the process. >>> I suppose someone can get addicted to posting groups, but I am not >>> sure it is as easy for that to happen. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Vickie On Oct 23, 1:33 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Oct 22, 6:56 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] > > > Vickie Maybe a little bit of them is already lost, too, and the addiction seems to cover that up. I've been lost many a time, and tried many a remedy to cover up my feeling lost. In short time, I realized that they were cover-ups. After realizing, I sometimes opted to continue covering-up "for now," and other times opted to stop the "cover up" behavior. Even today, I may choose a short-term cover-up, knowing what it is and what I'm doing, and knowing that eventually (better sooner than later) I gotta resolve the "feeling lost" in a healthier way. So what is it that makes some people unable to move to that second step, the resolution of the "feeling lost" and better choices? I can only imagine a big abyss in front of them, one without a light at the end of the tunnel. :( I am grateful for being able to focus on light. > On Oct 23, 1:33 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 188 lines] > So what is it that makes some people unable to move to that second > step, the resolution of the "feeling lost" and better choices? Fear. Inertia. Lack of fortitude. Lack of self-confidence. (choose one or more of the above :-) > I can only imagine a big abyss in front of them, one without a light at > the > end of the tunnel. :( I am grateful for being able to focus on light. Light??? Is there a Light in the house??? On Oct 23, 8:17 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Oct 23, 1:33 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 199 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The lights are on But no one's home... "Vickie <lilliputianbizzare@gmail.com>" wrote, about WoW: > [A]nytime my DH starts in on my son about his lack of "skill" I step > in, no holds bar. I've never had this problem, but I was thinking back to the Olden Days, in the Before Time when computers were geeks only, and the game was called "Adventure", and it was entirely text-based. And I remembered that some people I knew who played adventure really got into it and acted out parts of it, with costumes and everything. One or two got so far into it that they joined the Society for Creative Anachronism, and learned to actually fight for real with quarterstaffs. ("quarterstaves"?) So I'm thinking about your remark involving "skill", and I'm wondering about signing the two of them up for fencing lessons, or Kung Fu, or something. Sure, it's all well and good that you can play your game. But can you use an *actual* sword? Can you break one of these: http://www.karatesupply.com/Rebreakable-Boards_p_13-593.html?gclid=CKfDx7n1uJYCF QVxFQodmGS4LA in one hit? If you can do the yellow one, sure, that's easy. How about the green/purple/brown/black one? If there's a Renaissance Festival near you, maybe you should take them and watch the jousting and look at the swords and armor and so on. You can find videos on-line for making chainmail; it's not particularly expensive or difficult. Maybe they could make father/son shirts of mail. In sum: find something that has to do with their hobby that does NOT involve sitting in front of a computer for hours on end. You might suggest (to both) that most girls like the big muscles that come with actually making and using things much more than the blobs of flab that come with sitting on one's butt all day. Also, here's a song you might like: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/fun/freestuff/audio/VIXY_AND_TONY_Rich Fantasy Lives.mp3 It's a free download. Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "Speech is conveniently located midway between thought and action, where it often substitutes for both." -- John Andrew Holmes > I've never had this problem, but I was thinking back to the Olden Days, > in the Before Time when computers were geeks only, and the game was called > "Adventure", and it was entirely text-based. I remember reading the source code to figure out how to get that last point for a perfect score. The game was deterministic so I would script my moves up to a point, watch it play to that point, then work it from there. Once I had a file to feed it that gave a perfect score every time I lost interest. To this day I'm not much interested in games with graphics. The effort put into the graphics is effort not put into game play IMO. Because of addictive patterns I make a point to limit my own computer play to under 2 hours per week. > And I remembered that some > people I knew who played adventure really got into it and acted out parts > of it, with costumes and everything. One or two got so far into it that > they joined the Society for Creative Anachronism, and learned to actually > fight for real with quarterstaffs. ("quarterstaves"?) Ah the SCA. Proximate cause of the first time I flunked out of college. Real hand made metal armor, wooden swords, camping. Folks moved to it from computer games? Wow. > So I'm thinking about your remark involving "skill", and I'm wondering > about signing the two of them up for fencing lessons, or Kung Fu, or > something. Sure, it's all well and good that you can play your game. > But can you use an *actual* sword? Can you break one of these: Except for the part about flunking out of college, it's some of the best and most fun exercise I've had. Resistance and aerobics, strength and flexability, lots of fresh air. The skills of hammering my own armor is not exercise free either but indoors and not so much fresh air near a forge. At an antiques flea market this weekend I saw two separate coal fired blacksmith forges. I confirmed they were both in working condition. I was checking out all the parts and prices when my wife hooked my arm and marched me out of that building ... > If there's a Renaissance Festival near you, maybe you should take them > and watch the jousting and look at the swords and armor and so on. You > can find videos on-line for making chainmail; it's not particularly > expensive or difficult. Maybe they could make father/son shirts of mail. Hiking in chain mail is as good exercise as running without it. Hiking in a local woods with chain mail, even better. > ... You might > suggest (to both) that most girls like the big muscles that come with > actually making and using things much more than the blobs of flab that > come with sitting on one's butt all day. If you'd like to explain that to my wife so she doesn't pull me away from the forge at the antique place next time we're there ... ;^) >"Vickie <lilliputianbizzare@gmail.com>" wrote, about WoW: >> [A]nytime my DH starts in on my son about his lack of "skill" I step [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >in the Before Time when computers were geeks only, and the game was called >"Adventure", and it was entirely text-based. LOL... "Adventure"??? You're really dating yourself, aren't you? But, then, I guess I am, too... xyzzy >> "Vickie <lilliputianbizzare@gmail.com>" wrote, about WoW: >>> [A]nytime my DH starts in on my son about his lack of "skill" I step [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > xyzzy "Adventure" ain't old. But "Hangman" (text based ascii) might be, you newager. On Oct 21, 11:19 am, Dr Nancy's Sweetie <kil...@elvis.rowan.edu> wrote: > "Vickie <lilliputianbizz...@gmail.com>" wrote, about WoW: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > they joined the Society for Creative Anachronism, and learned to actually > fight for real with quarterstaffs. ("quarterstaves"?) Heh. Like the people who took D&D very seriously? > So I'm thinking about your remark involving "skill", and I'm wondering > about signing the two of them up for fencing lessons, or Kung Fu, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in one hit? If you can do the yellow one, sure, that's easy. How about > the green/purple/brown/black one? I like the fencing idea. I will have to look into that one. > If there's a Renaissance Festival near you, maybe you should take them > and watch the jousting and look at the swords and armor and so on. You > can find videos on-line for making chainmail; it's not particularly > expensive or difficult. Maybe they could make father/son shirts of mail. They have made swords out of pvc piping and duct tape, so they are not unfamiliar with these ideas. When my DH was a teen he was invoved in something similar to a renaissance group. > In sum: find something that has to do with their hobby that does NOT > involve sitting in front of a computer for hours on end. You might > suggest (to both) that most girls like the big muscles that come with > actually making and using things much more than the blobs of flab that > come with sitting on one's butt all day. They have been lifting weights for the last 6 months together, so their bond is not *all* WOW. But it is their favorite topic of discussion. > Also, here's a song you might like: > > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/fun/freestuff/audio/VIXY_AND_TONY_RichFantasy Lives.mp3 > > It's a free download. Bummer. I couldn't get it to work. Vickie > Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > had a lady on there who had written a book called "Game Widow" or > something along those lines. It was interesting. The people they profiled were *very* extreme. Dr. Phil must be in a ratings war. >> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >> and saw that it was about video game addiction, so I watched it. The [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ratings > war. But aren't they all pretty much these days? That's why we have a plethora today of all this LCD (lowest common denominator) stuff. (Fortunately, there still is PBS, for the rest of us - as few as that may be). /end modesty >> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it >The people they profiled were *very* extreme. Dr. Phil must be in a ratings >war. I don't think they were too much more extreme than Vickie's husband. I guess the fact that Mr. V. still has his job and the other guys didn't was a sign that they were more extreme, but they did the same things that Mr. V was doing: Ignoring the family, ignoring the relationship, optiong out of parenting the kids, etc. I did think it was something she could relate to. Vickie--Dr. Phil was basically incredulous that these grown men would set aside their real lives, real kids, real wives in order to play with an avitar and interact with people that they would most likely never meet. One guy was a recovered gamer and now, with several months of gaming sobriety, he is amazed and embarrassed at how vested he was in the online life. (That was the guy that played the game till 4:30 AM on the day he was to get married, and who charged up $24k of game-related charges on secret credit cards). It was interesting. SignatureLauri in WA >>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > with an avitar and interact with people that they would most likely > never meet. Seems like Dr. Phil has been living in Hollywood too long, then, and is a bit out of touch with (some of) society these days. Alas, maybe it's better that way, however. See, one can remain more optimistic, and a bit less jaded about it, that way. > >>> Vickie, did you happen to see the Dr. Phil show today? I recorded it > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Alas, maybe it's better that way, however. See, one can remain more > optimistic, and a bit less jaded about it, that way. I know that Dr. Phil is very popular and his show is designed for "everyman", but I think his themes and problems are very realistic. I also think he points to good solutions. I haven't watched it for a while. Regarding gaming-- there are so many addicting distractions in people's lives that make them drop their responsibilities and follow some adolescent dream. I think everyone knows that. It happens especially with certain characters and in times of stress. Every man has his breaking point. Erin > On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:34:00 -0400, "dejablues" > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > optiong out of parenting the kids, etc. I did think it was something > she could relate to. My DH was/is lucky enough to set his own hours at work. Many days he would say he was working at home, but play, then catch up. But there was serious resentment over that. It turned into a good excuse to do even less. I would see him playing and would say I needed to get to the post office, and he would say he was just about done and needed to work, so he needed quiet and to take the kids with me. It was pretty bad, I think. > Vickie--Dr. Phil was basically incredulous that these grown men would > set aside their real lives, real kids, real wives in order to play [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > till 4:30 AM on the day he was to get married, and who charged up $24k > of game-related charges on secret credit cards). It was interesting. Damn. Yes, I think that when the gamers stop, go through their "withdrawl" and come out on the other end, they *are* really shocked. When DH was in it, he had no clue what my feelings were and what the family was going through. To him, it was like he played the game to unwind and couldn't get over the fact that I was such a bitch and rode him on it all the time. He had no clue about the psychological hurt the kids and I went through and how close I was to walking out the door. Like I said before, it hits him now and then. I don't expect him to spend his life trying to make-up for the lost time, not that he would, as he is not the type. I do like him to notice when the kids or I are not so trusting in something he says, that it was his fault he put the doubts in our mind. It is his responsibililty (if he desires) to slow down and take the time to reassure us. Vickie |
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