Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / January 2009

Let it be!

A comment of truth??  Oooh kay...

Let me get this straight... If you say you've been married a little less
than 4 years, but in 3 years the sex has been less than 100 times?  I don't
know who keeps track of those kinds of things but...3 years is a little less
than 1100 days.  180 or so of those days in 3 years are probably what many
women feel as "off limits" where they are menstruating.  That leaves a
little less than 920 days in 3 years.  That is an average of about one day
with sex in every 9 or so days.  You said, though, something about 3 times
in the last 12 months.  So let's take a year off, and 3 times of sex, so
that's more like saying in 3 years, there's been 100 times of sex but the
last year was only 3 times.  That gives me, using quick math in my head, 730
days in 2 years (since we're excluding the last year as there's only been 3
times) take away 180 or so days of menstruation and that's 550 days that are
more likely for sex... For an average of sex every 5ish days, excluding this
last year but including 2 years before.
That doesn't seem like poor you being so neglected sexually...

I am a Christian. And I must say that there are still some things that
I do not agree with in the way that Christianity observed in practice.

One of the things that I do not agree with is "no sex before
marraige". Now, to be sure, don't get me wrong here. I do not believe
in indiscrimitate sex and the plethora of sleeze and debauchary that
goes on all to frequently in todays society. No. However, the FACT of
the matter is that in any long-term relationship there *is* a
physical/sexual component. To completely ignor that part of the
equation *before* marraige is utterly absured, in my opinion.

*Before* two people get married they have every right to experience
each other physically and sexually, and to know what they are in for
should they get hitched for the lang haul.

Too many "religious" types try to push the crap on us that #1) No sex
before Marraige, #2) Once married, sex is only for "procreation", and
3) as soon as you are married "When will you be making babies, babies
babies!!????" (ie: new members of the chruch that can increase it's
numbers and therefore the churches influence).

There are not may people who would buy a car without a test drive.

To make the decision to commit to a person, you need to know them -
and that includes in the biblical sense. WIthout knowing how you and
your prospective partner will be sexually, before marriage, is kind of
like marrying a stranger - just a bad idea. It askes you to make a
critical, life affecting decision, without all the facts and
information required to make an informed decision. It borders on
trickery and/or deceit. IMHO.

And, unfortunately, it has led you to your currect perdicament. And
this is a double wammy for a Christian because if you were to divorce
your wife merely on the fact that there is enough sex in the
relationship you are gonna likely take it on the chin - to the point
where you are likely going to have to go to another church, and
possibly switch Christian demoninations to get away from the
persecution that most certainly awaits you.

My first marraige failed, and for many, many reasons. But in the ashes
of my first marraige I learned alot of things. Generally there are 4
accepted reasons for a divorce - the "4 A's":

Abuse,
Affair,
Addiciton,
Abandonment

From the informaiton you provided, the first 3 do not apply. The 4th -
Abandonment - *may* apply, but based on what you said it is iffy.

A link on Christian Dhvorce:

http://christiandivorce.1hwy.com/

Just Google a bit and you will find lots of info.

As husband and wife, you have a duty to one another to consider and
cultivate each others happiness. If a couple learns to put each others
happiness first, then a lot of things just take care of themselves.
You have raised an issue, and by your own account even though you have
both discussed this issue, nothing has changed.

Many years ago I was in a relationship. This relationship was very
satisfying on all levels, and had the potential of going long-term.
However, there were 2 or 3 significant issues that needed to be
addressed. I discussed those with that woman 3 times over a 2 year
period. Despite all promises of how things were going to change, not
one thing changed. In the end, I had to realize that actions speak
louder than words. That woman had no intention of changing whatsoever,
and by saying one thing and doing another, she was duplicitous. I was
not prepared to take the relationship any further. I broke it off. And
it was the toughest thing I have ever done - it ripped my guts out.
But it had to be done.

This freed me to seek a better relationship. Indeed, I am now with my
soul mate! I am fortunate indeed.

God did not intend people to live an a shell of a marriage. The
marital relationship is supposed to be a haven of love and abundance
with God's blessing.

SO...

You have a lot of thinking to do. Are you prepared to be honest with
yourself - *painfully* honest? Are you prepared to do what it takes to
either make things work, or to end the marriage and move on? It is a
rough road either way. And it will test your faith.

To give you an idea, in my first marraige I knew there were problems
at the 7 year mark. I spent 6 additional years trying to make it work
before the marraige imploded. I take marraige seriously, and I do not
believe in "serial monogamy" to the continuous marraige - divorce -
remarraige ala Hollywood.

I gave it all I had. And when I was finally able to b e honest with
myself and see the real truth, it became obvious what needed to be
done. And oddly, in the end, it was less painful to divorce than it
was to stay in a very bad marraige.

God's speed.

Let me be transactional and stark about this.

1) Whether or when your wife wants to have sex is up to her.

2) Whether you want to stay married under the current circumstances is
  up to you.

That is, there is something wrong here, and your options are solve it,
leave, or live with it.

What is wrong is hard to say.  Maybe your wife dislikes sex, and maybe
that could be changed.  Maybe you "aren't doing it well" and that
could be changed.  Maybe it is something else.

You aren't going to have a very good chance of addressing this problem
unless you can talk about it, and this tends to be _very_ hard to talk
about, so almost certainly I'd recommend couples counseling.

You have to be able to say in a safe situation (this is part of what a
counselor can provide) that sex is important to you, and your not
happy being in a marriage where sex is so irregular.  Your wife needs
to be able to talk about what is going on with her, in such a way that
she has to think harder about what is going on than the knee-jerk
reaction "all you care about is sex."

If the two of you could work this out on your own, that would be very
surprising to me.

So if I were you (and I haven't been, but I've been in a somewhat
similar situation), I would talk to my wife about the need for couples
counseling, find a counselor, schedule an appointment and ask her to
come with me.

In the meantime there are a couple of marriage books you might find
interesting/helpful.  I'd suggest Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage" and
Harley's "Fall in Love, Stay in Love."

Truth as I see it. There is likely a dynamic that has developed. And there
is not enough information to see what it is. It is likely that neither of
your conscious minds would be able to articulate what it is. Pwer struggle?
Resentment? Hidden sexual fears and issues? I do sense a tad of tit for tat,
you get the cuddle and I get some sex... But who knows.

So. Solution. Get thee to marital counseling. Ask her to come. Tell her you
love her, if that remains the truth, and want the best marriage in the
world. Tell her you want to find some help with this stuff before too much
resentment kicks in, if you can. (So she does not get defensive about you
taking off on her.) If she won't go, go alone.

Seek out counselors of repute at your church, if you have access to an
employee assistance program, a referral from yrou doc...

Best wishes.

You say you have talked about it, but have you asked her *why* she keeps sex
so low on the priorities list?
Maybe she doesn't know herself and needs to find the reason so she can
figure things out.
If it winds up that she just has a lower libido than you and not something
else like self conscious body image, needing more romance, not happy with
the performance, etc, you both need to find a good medium and decide what
you can live with to stay married.

Vickie

Please, answer Xorra's questions--which are some of the same questions
many of us would ask you.

Does your religious views? If so, how does she respond to her biblical
obligation to be submissive to you? Note: I Do Not accept that rule
nearly as literally as many church folks.

________________________
Whatever it takes.

I think your options are limited, unfortunately.

Do you know if your wife enjoys sex at all?  Does she orgasm when you do
have sex? It sounds like she feels affection and welcomes non-sexual contact
from you so clearly she doesn't dislike you - a fairly common reason for not
wanting to have sex with someone.

Did she ever have desire for you? Sometimes, even if desire is present
initially, it can be squashed by continually bad sex and, in effect, may
have been trained out of her where you are concerned.  Are you able to
communicate honestly enough with each other to rule that out as the reason
for her reluctance?

You say you have talked and we can guess what you've said to your wife but
what was her response to you?  If she simply lacks the desire for sex and
there aren't external reasons for that (work stress, health problems, past
trauma) then she's not actually broken, you two will always be incompatable
sexually.

Frankly I don't think you have much hope of ever having a satisfactory sex
life with your wife. Unless she is willing to see this as a problem for you
both and want to change your situation you don't have any chance at all.
Adding to my pessimism is that if this truly is a libido issue rather than
the inevitable result of several years of unenjoyable sex then making
herself available more often to accommodate you isn't going to work all that
well for either of you, given the disparity of your current sex drives.
You'll both know she's bored by the chore sex has become and you won't have
the sense of shared pleasure that is so important in an intimate
relationship.

See if you can get your wife to go to joint marriage counselling with you.
Trying to talk about this on your own hasn't been working for you but it
might help to have a neutral and trained third party guide your discussion
of this very sensitive problem.