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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / July 2009Irrational response to copycats
Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery instead of my childish response (loathing)? I give people their due if I intend to take something they have done and try to mimic or recreate it. I make sure they know that their idea has inspired me. Totally serious here. This is something I really hate about myself and do not want to pass on to the kids. Thanks for any good adivce. Vickie > Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. > Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery instead of my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Vickie How about an example? Because it seems to me in a way almost everything we do is "copying" something we've seen/heard etc...(ie, our language!) but I know you mean something else...what type of copycatting bugs you? On Jul 6, 1:31 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. > Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery instead of my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Vickie How about an example? Because it seems to me in a way almost everything we do is "copying" something we've seen/heard etc...(ie, our language!) but I know you mean something else...what type of copycatting bugs you? ____________________ Well doll, this is going to get pretty petty and ugly fast if I go into specifics. And I mean that about myself! I can refer to my kids ideas for school projects. I get really clear with them to keep quiet about subjects they have chosen because others who are without ideas tend to jump on really unique ideas which I think discredits my kids' imagination. Even more specific, ugh, is my SIL and BIL, who live down the street. My father in law (the one I dislike so very much) drives a competitive edge to everything between my son and his step-grandson. My son plays drums and recently received a kit for his birthday. His cousin now received one. My son decided on a dwarf hamster awhile back, low and behold his cousin has one. (Ours was murdered by our cat :-( ) I wanted a pond in our backyard....love the sound of water. DH had no opinion and because of that I received little help. I did well for the little experience (nil) I had in such a task. 6 mths later we are invited to look at their beautiful master-crafted koi pond. (gag) Our living area had an old brick fire box, so DH did some skillful remodeling with marble and matched the new mantle with new crown modeling. Guess what they did? Bleh! And more and more petty stuff like that. I just like my own stuff. The stuff that makes me ME, that makes us Us. Let them have their own interests, their own desires and ideas. And for goodness sake, don't pass it off as if you came up with it on your own when it so obviously did not! Told you! I am horrid! Just want to get rid of these feelings but haven't found a way....(yet?) Vickie > On Jul 6, 1:31 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > specifics. > And I mean that about myself! I don't see it as petty and ugly-- > I can refer to my kids ideas for school projects. > I get really clear with them to keep quiet about subjects they have chosen > because others who are without ideas tend to jump on really unique ideas > which I think discredits my kids' imagination. I don't think that's so bad. I think it reflects, in part, a school system which doesn't have the time or resources to allow for "collaboration" to lead toward "original ideas." I also think it reflects kids "copycatting" their parents, who often begin conversations about school projects with, "Well, what are your classmates doing"? It's part of that competitive nature you once posted about among today's parents. Heck, if we let our kids come up with and then create their own projects, it might not be *as good as* the neighbors, which means the child isn't *as good as* the neighbors child, which means, of course <dripping irony> that the parents are not *as good as* the other parents. > Even more specific, ugh, is my SIL and BIL, who live down the street. > My father in law (the one I dislike so very much) drives a competitive edge > to everything between my son and his step-grandson. > My son plays drums and recently received a kit for his birthday. His cousin > now received one. Did the cousin truly want one--was he inspired by your son's interest? If so, OK; if not, Ick, and what a waste of money. > My son decided on a dwarf hamster awhile back, low and behold his cousin has > one. (Ours was murdered by our cat :-( ) Same comment as above... > I wanted a pond in our backyard....love the sound of water. Me too! DH had no > opinion and because of that I received little help. I did well for the > little experience (nil) I had in such a task. 6 mths later we are invited > to look at their beautiful master-crafted koi pond. (gag) Ahhhh...one-upmanship? I would pee in it. :) > Our living area had an old brick fire box, so DH did some skillful > remodeling with marble and matched the new mantle with new crown modeling. > Guess what they did? Bleh! Yup, I'm starting to think this has a lot to do with them and not much to do with you at all. Why do you think they need to do this? > And more and more petty stuff like that. > > I just like my own stuff. The stuff that makes me ME, that makes us Us. > Let them have their own interests, their own desires and ideas. Don't hit me, but you can't control them, just you. Keep doing what you want to make you YOU. It sounds like they are either jealous or just really admire your choices, which would then be a compliment to you? > And for goodness sake, don't pass it off as if you came up with it on your > own when it so obviously did not! You may find opportunities to "correct" this "passing off" in the future, which doesn't help the annoyance today. > Told you! I am horrid! > Just want to get rid of these feelings but haven't found a way....(yet?) NOT horrid. But I would ask you, why do you think it bugs you so much? I don't speak from a lot of experience here. I don't possess much that anyone else wants, and I don't want much of what a lot of ppl possess. I live in a pretty tired house in a really tired neighborhood and drive a 7 year old vehicle. But certainly I've seen things at others' homes that I want---ummmm, let me think----OK, not at their homes. What I see are cool neat new techno-gadgets and want them, too--but often it's b/c it will make my job more efficient and effective. Fill > Vickie On Jul 6, 3:53 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "phelbooth" <phelbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > specifics. > And I mean that about myself! I don't see it as petty and ugly-- > I can refer to my kids ideas for school projects. > I get really clear with them to keep quiet about subjects they have chosen > because others who are without ideas tend to jump on really unique ideas > which I think discredits my kids' imagination. I don't think that's so bad. I think it reflects, in part, a school system which doesn't have the time or resources to allow for "collaboration" to lead toward "original ideas." I also think it reflects kids "copycatting" their parents, who often begin conversations about school projects with, "Well, what are your classmates doing"? It's part of that competitive nature you once posted about among today's parents. Heck, if we let our kids come up with and then create their own projects, it might not be *as good as* the neighbors, which means the child isn't *as good as* the neighbors child, which means, of course <dripping irony> that the parents are not *as good as* the other parents. > Even more specific, ugh, is my SIL and BIL, who live down the street. > My father in law (the one I dislike so very much) drives a competitive [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cousin > now received one. Did the cousin truly want one--was he inspired by your son's interest? If so, OK; if not, Ick, and what a waste of money. > My son decided on a dwarf hamster awhile back, low and behold his cousin > has > one. (Ours was murdered by our cat :-( ) Same comment as above... > I wanted a pond in our backyard....love the sound of water. Me too! DH had no > opinion and because of that I received little help. I did well for the > little experience (nil) I had in such a task. 6 mths later we are invited > to look at their beautiful master-crafted koi pond. (gag) Ahhhh...one-upmanship? I would pee in it. :) > Our living area had an old brick fire box, so DH did some skillful > remodeling with marble and matched the new mantle with new crown modeling. > Guess what they did? Bleh! Yup, I'm starting to think this has a lot to do with them and not much to do with you at all. Why do you think they need to do this? > And more and more petty stuff like that. > > I just like my own stuff. The stuff that makes me ME, that makes us Us. > Let them have their own interests, their own desires and ideas. Don't hit me, but you can't control them, just you. Keep doing what you want to make you YOU. It sounds like they are either jealous or just really admire your choices, which would then be a compliment to you? > And for goodness sake, don't pass it off as if you came up with it on your > own when it so obviously did not! You may find opportunities to "correct" this "passing off" in the future, which doesn't help the annoyance today. > Told you! I am horrid! > Just want to get rid of these feelings but haven't found a way....(yet?) NOT horrid. But I would ask you, why do you think it bugs you so much? I don't speak from a lot of experience here. I don't possess much that anyone else wants, and I don't want much of what a lot of ppl possess. I live in a pretty tired house in a really tired neighborhood and drive a 7 year old vehicle. But certainly I've seen things at others' homes that I want---ummmm, let me think----OK, not at their homes. What I see are cool neat new techno-gadgets and want them, too--but often it's b/c it will make my job more efficient and effective. _____________________ I really insist my kids come-up with their own ideas for reports and projects. Say if they are to do a report on an African animal, I would help them get a good site to give them a list on the internet to choose from, but it is up to them to choose which one interests them. Why do a report on something you have no interest in?? Even just among the three of them they want their own unique ideas. (Though it would be so much easier to have a younger one revisit the same topic the older one did!) As far as I know, my son's cousin had no interest in either drums or hamsters. Something else that comes to mind is a friend of mine, her son is of an age as mine, and she comes right out and says, "wow, R really seems to enjoy that, I bet S would too". And then I have no qualms at all! In fact I am more than happy to give her all the info I obtained to have her son do the same (with whatever it is my son is doing/enjoying). Pee in the pond? LOL. I have no idea what my BIL and SIL's copying says about them or why they do it. I'm more the type to turn away from a certain idea because it was not my own. For whatever reason, I can't see it as a compliment at all. Why does this bug me? Probably some childhood thing. I have always been this way. In fact, a remember doing something quite bad to a girl in elementary school because she copied me. 2 rosaries worth of bad! Maybe it is unfixable. Vickie > On Jul 6, 3:53 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 149 lines] > > Vickie I'm glad that's how you facilitate your kids' learning, Vickie. Interesting about the different response to your friend from that to BIL and SIL (and cousin)...of course I don't know them, but it does sound like classical not just "keeping up with the neighbors" (or in this case, family) but "one-upmanship." Any ideas why they might need to do that? And, since you can't control that...outside of endless rosaries to fix your rotten soul for being bugged by this (why are you? you elude that, referencing childhood, but why these two people? but not your friend?)...what might you do to un-bug? Cuz it's really just kinda a waste of negative energy, and I know you don't need me to tell you that (obviously you know that, in this post you as much as say so)... I have an Idea! In counseling, I remember once learning that it's really hard to just "stop" negative things that you don't like doing yourself--that you need a "replacement"--so, is there something you could do every time you feel this bugged-ness to replace it with (if not positive thing) something not-negative? Like, maybe, tell yourself that every time you feel bugged about this, you're going to look in the mirror and make atrocious faces at yourself until you laugh? (Someone else jump into this thread. I'm in babble mode. Tooth doesn't hurt tho!) On Jul 6, 4:46 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "phelbooth" <phelbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] > > Vickie I'm glad that's how you facilitate your kids' learning, Vickie. Interesting about the different response to your friend from that to BIL and SIL (and cousin)...of course I don't know them, but it does sound like classical not just "keeping up with the neighbors" (or in this case, family) but "one-upmanship." Any ideas why they might need to do that? And, since you can't control that...outside of endless rosaries to fix your rotten soul for being bugged by this (why are you? you elude that, referencing childhood, but why these two people? but not your friend?)...what might you do to un-bug? Cuz it's really just kinda a waste of negative energy, and I know you don't need me to tell you that (obviously you know that, in this post you as much as say so)... I have an Idea! In counseling, I remember once learning that it's really hard to just "stop" negative things that you don't like doing yourself--that you need a "replacement"--so, is there something you could do every time you feel this bugged-ness to replace it with (if not positive thing) something not-negative? Like, maybe, tell yourself that every time you feel bugged about this, you're going to look in the mirror and make atrocious faces at yourself until you laugh? (Someone else jump into this thread. I'm in babble mode. Tooth doesn't hurt tho!) ______________________ It is a waste of energy! I think I don't mind helping my friend because we both let each other know when either of us has come up with something great and give credit to the person for doing it. And because of that, the few times it doesn't happen, its cool. I will try your mirror technique. It is easy for me to crack myself up. :-) If anything it will save my teeth from all the gritting I do when slipping down the petty slope. I don't think anyone else is very much interested in my character downfall, so I appreciate the responses from you. Glad your tooth is pain-free for the moment. One thing about that Vicodin though; it can stop you up, if you get my drift, so drink your water and eat some fiber! By the bye, I just saw my son off to his grandparents. He's taking a plane to Iowa for a week. A big deal for him...and me! I might have hugged and kissed him a bit too much during the goodbyes! Hope he has fun. Vickie > On Jul 6, 4:46 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 220 lines] > > Vickie You sound just like me in that you can crack yourself up easily. I find the mirror-exercise really helpful with certain annoyances. I can enter the bathroom all angry or teary-sad and by using the mirror always crack a smile and let it go. Iowa, eh? I think he'll have fun. There are a lot of good, clean rivers to tube down in Iowa! On Jul 6, 5:53 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "phelbooth" <phelbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 232 lines] > > Vickie You sound just like me in that you can crack yourself up easily. I find the mirror-exercise really helpful with certain annoyances. I can enter the bathroom all angry or teary-sad and by using the mirror always crack a smile and let it go. Iowa, eh? I think he'll have fun. There are a lot of good, clean rivers to tube down in Iowa! _______________________________ Yeah I can go into giggle fits over the most trivial of stuff. I tell ya though, yesterday, I was in such a complete downer, no mirror was going to get me out of it. Today, so far better. Yep he's in the Hawkeye State. DH's relatives are there. Don't think he is rafting but he is going on Lake Rathbun, just boating I think. At Great Grandma's yesterday with "a bunch of people I don't know!". Lol. Vickie (snip) > I have an Idea! In counseling, I remember once learning that it's > really hard to just "stop" negative things that you don't like doing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (Someone else jump into this thread. I'm in babble mode. Tooth doesn't > hurt tho!) I'd jump in if I could. I think it is a good question that Vickie is asking. Although the sort of thing she describe doesn't happen to bother me, the general question of "how do we not get bothered by stuff other people do that doesn't actually affect us" is a good one, and is often difficult. Vickie, it seems like in order to stop being bothered by this, you may need to learn _why_ it bothers you so much. > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Vickie, it seems like in order to stop being bothered by this, you may > need to learn _why_ it bothers you so much. Yeah, I wish I could figure it out. V > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > people do that doesn't actually affect us" is a good one, and is > often difficult. I think this is the crux of much of what is nasty in our society. All people need to learn to MYOB and get out of other people's stuff. > Vickie, it seems like in order to stop being bothered by this, you may > need to learn _why_ it bothers you so much. >> (snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > people > need to learn to MYOB and get out of other people's stuff. How does it benefit society if no one cares what anyone else does, no matter how bad it is, and just looks the other way all the time? If we all did that, nothing would change, and anyone could do anything they felt like. In short, there would be chaos. >> Vickie, it seems like in order to stop being bothered by this, you may >> need to learn _why_ it bothers you so much. Maybe she's thinking of others, and is not so self-centered, even though, admitedly, it doesn't accomplish much. But some people can't turn off caring about others like that. It's like watching a train wreck, and saying it ain't my problem, so let's go out for ice cream. Some people can't turn it all off like that. > Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. > Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks for any good advice. It's not an irrational response. It's a completely rational response. The problem with the response, though, is an irrational fear, and that fear is borne of insecurity. Obviously, what you've said is that you want the credit for having done something positive (e.g., helpful, creative, etc..). So why do you want the credit? I suggest to you that it's because you have some degree of need to have your worth to those around you validated. And what's the antithesis of validation of worth? It's irrelevance. And what's the consequence of irrelevance? It's abandonment, and abandonment is scary, and so your response is anger (i.e., loathing). Therefore, I suggest that in your mind, *to the degree* that your worth is lost or ignored, your presence in the lives of those around you will not be valued, and so you will not be valued *to the degree* that your worth isn't validated, and *to the degree* it's not validated, you will feel abandoned, and so therefore afraid, and so therefore angry. It's all very logical and very rational except for one thing.......... Your worth to the people around you will be seen for what it is in the long run, and is not dependent upon building a ledger wherein you get credit for every individual act of good. >> Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. >> Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > long run, and is not dependent upon building a ledger wherein you get > credit for every individual act of good. Dang! Thanks for the response. I always seem to have abandonment issues. It's true I do want validation of my worth from those around me. And that's something I try to work on, but never seem to get it totally out of my system. Only thing I don't get is if I have this degree of being valued and when I don't get it, I don't go out of my way to prove anything to them really. In fact I want to turn my back on them completely. Kick them out of my life! If I am fearful of abandonment why don't I keep trying to prove my worth to them? Vickie >>> Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. >>> Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Vickie I think that's the wrong way of looking at it. You shouldn't feel the need to do it with those you care about (or even those you don't!). But even if you do, it's a losing proposition, as it will never end, and it constantly drains your energy (i.e., always being on guard, trying to prove something, etc, etc) for useful purposes. Those who care about you don't need that constant exercise of proof, and just accept you for who you are. (And if they don't, that is on THEM, and is THEIR issue). >>> Yep I'm 40! and still detest (immaturely I add) copycatters. >>> Any good ways of convincing oneself to take it as flattery [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > If I am fearful of abandonment why don't I keep trying to prove > my worth to them? It's all part of the defense mechanism. It's preemptive. 'If they don't want me, then I don't want them'. It's a way of taking control over the abandonment to make it seem as though it was really your choice, not there's. "Vickie <vkrajnik@yahoo.com>" wrote about being annoyed by relatives who copy what she does; she gets a backyard pond, they get one, and such like that. I have several suggestions: 1) Do something you know they dislike. For Hallowe'en, dress up like a character from a movie you know they don't like. If they're big barbecuers, announce that for the next month you're going to be a vegetarian. If they're vegetarians, get a big chest freezer, go to a farm, and buy an entire side of beef. 2) Do something in a small way, let them copy it in a big way, and then wait for them to give up. You might be able to pick up some nice stuff cheap at the garage sale when they get rid of the weight machine, or whatever. 3) Talk about doing something you won't actually do. Have a bunch of pamphlets for motorcycles in the house, along with a brochure for motorcycle-riding lessons. Maybe they'll break their necks riding the motorcycle and solve your problem that way. 8-) 4) Poison the well by talking about how they'll copy you. Next time you get something you really like, when they see it for the first time, say "Now you'll run right out and buy one too, I suppose." See what they say. * You might like this: http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2232901/7046346 Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy 'The annual Mardi Gras celebration took place in New Orleans Tuesday night. "Mardi Gras" is a French word which means "Fat Tuesday" and is the day that marks the beginning of Lent. "Lent" is also a French word, which means "Rehab".' -- Colin Quinn, SNL Weekend Update, 11 Mar 2000 > "Vickie <vkrajnik@yahoo.com>" wrote about being annoyed by relatives who > copy what she does; she gets a backyard pond, they get one, and such [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > * At the very least, the next time they copy I will think of all your suggestions and laugh my butt off. :-) Thanks DNS. > You might like this: > > http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2232901/7046346 Yep. Only thing is Fras' boss would have just invited Fras over to see his great taste and ideas. Passing it off as all his own and expecting compliments! Vickie Addended: I didn't mean this in specific relation to "copycats", but just as a general observation. P.S. I tried your approach of "not minding about anyone else's business" while watching the World News (at least to be informed), but all I get instead is Michael Jackson's "business" paraded in my face. Sigh, there (seemingly) is no escape from this complete and utter "appeasement to the masses" stupidity, except, perhaps, living in isolation from this world. Bill in Co wrote: > Stephanie wrote: >>> phelbooth <phelbooth@gmail.com> writes: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > saying it ain't my problem, so let's go out for ice cream. Some people > can't turn it all off like that. |
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