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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / November 2005Has An Affair Helped Invigorate Your Marriage?
Have you had an affair? Has it actually helped to re-invigorate your marriage? Or helped you to get a better handle on what you want out of life? If so, successful writer would like to hear your story. Total discretion/anonymity guaranteed in writing. No pay, but free copy at end of project. > Have you had an affair? Has it actually helped to re-invigorate your > marriage? Or helped you to get a better handle on what you want out of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No pay, but free copy at end of project. If you could perhaps define the reason you are studying affairs that might assist a bit. For instance, are you considering having one yourself? Have you already had one and are interested in helping others with a book on the subject? Using the stories to write a novel? Do you have a title that would help clue us in? Thanx. > > Have you had an affair? Has it actually helped to re-invigorate your > > marriage? Or helped you to get a better handle on what you want out of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > with a book on the subject? Using the stories to write a novel? Do you > have a title that would help clue us in? Thanx. Know two people who were in dying marriages. Had affairs, and it appears to me (and other outside observers) that the affairs reinvigorated their respective marriages. I find that fascinating, and curiously against the accepted notion that affairs are patently bad or harmful. Think a book on the subject would be both fascinating, anti-establishment, and potentially enlightning and helpful. >>>Have you had an affair? Has it actually helped to re-invigorate your >>>marriage? Or helped you to get a better handle on what you want out of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > harmful. Think a book on the subject would be both fascinating, > anti-establishment, and potentially enlightning and helpful. More likely it'll be potentially misleading and damaging. Unless you do an objective study, and report on the damage as well as the occasional "helpful" effect, all you are doing is presenting a small minority of self described "happy cheaters". Sure, you may sell some books, and that may be enough incentive for you, but don't fool yourself about the "enlightening and helpful" bit. I am not disagreeing that some people may have improved their marriage after an affair. In fact I'd be interested to learn about their experiences and how they were able to make something positive from the affair. But only if it's from a credible source based on objective study and statistics of what percentage of affairs happen to end happily. It doesn't seem like you are interested in such a project though. My goodness. As if all the crap out there to "help" troubled marriages is based on "objective" studies. 90% of what I see basically says to just turn your life over to Jesus...that's the cure-all. I'm not looking to write a scientific treatise...on that account you're right. I am looking to write an insightful book that highlights the very real and painful fact that marriage for many, if not most, doesn't work; that an awful lot of people have affairs; and that maybe, just maybe, if society didn't look at marriage through some dishonest, idealistic, and puritanical lens that a few more marriages would yield benefits and happiness to both spouses. > My goodness. As if all the crap out there to "help" troubled marriages > is based on "objective" studies. 90% of what I see basically says to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > idealistic, and puritanical lens that a few more marriages would yield > benefits and happiness to both spouses. Then why not write a book about what you think of marriage and how society should view it? I mean, since you seem concerned about "honesty", why promote a misconception that affairs are good for marriage? You don't really think that affairs, in general, are helpful to marriage, do you? But good luck in gathering the stories that you're looking for, I'm sure there are a handful of couples who'll give you what you want... > My goodness. As if all the crap out there to "help" troubled marriages > is based on "objective" studies. 90% of what I see basically says to > just turn your life over to Jesus...that's the cure-all. Perhaps the 90% are right. Or did that possibility elude you? :) Bo Oh, Christ... > Oh, Christ... Elude, huh? :) Bo Yeah, it eludes me. I mean, it should be so clear to me that the faith in Christ has brought so much goodness to the world...especially to married couples, the unfaithful, and little boys. > Yeah, it eludes me. I mean, it should be so clear to me that the faith > in Christ has brought so much goodness to the world...especially to > married couples, the unfaithful, and little boys. I would look at it a little differently... For example: 'it should be so clear to me that the faith in Christ has brought so much goodness to the world... The problem is when people forsake Christ and His teachings (eg. "do unto others...", and "love your neighbor as yourself")--that's especially when married couples, the unfaithful, and little boys are hurt/abused/etc' It's not 'faith in Christ'--but rather lack of it that becomes the root of problems. Its easy to attribute to 'faith in Christ' some of the evils of this world--but I would submit to you that this is not the case. It's like blaming the parents of a drunk driver that kills an innocent person. After all, if they hadn't had him, he wouldn't have killed the innocent person. Poor allegory I realize, but I think it holds some truth. People can NOT live up to God's standard--that's the whole reason He sent Jesus. I don't claim to understand it all either---and yes the things you cite do bother me--but how can they possibly be God's fault? Good luck on your project. If its objectively carried out, I think the data will support the idea that the happiest, longest relationships are monogamous.....because that's the way it was planned from the beginning... Bo >> > Have you had an affair? Has it actually helped to re-invigorate your >> > marriage? Or helped you to get a better handle on what you want out of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > harmful. Think a book on the subject would be both fascinating, > anti-establishment, and potentially enlightning and helpful. I can't help but think that the affair was likely the catalist for getting down to the work of fixing whatever was broken which was being ignored rather than the affair itself reinvigorating. Steph, I think you are probably right. But, having witnessed multiple marriages that sink into long-lasting ruts, with little chance of change, and now seeing affairs shake two of them up for the better, not sure there was another way. I mean, sure, ideally, something else would have worked, but both marriages tried seritonin uptake inhibitors, marriage counseling, yelling, etc, and none of those things knocked them out of their ruts...an affair did. > Steph, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > inhibitors, marriage counseling, yelling, etc, and none of those things > knocked them out of their ruts...an affair did. Can you please quote what you are responding to? It is hard to follow if you do not. You know this response is so freaking depressing it is not even funny. The solution to ruts is affairs, drugs and yelling. Did they ever try getting a life? Instead they chose to ignore their vows and have an affair. They got lucky and it did not cause a crash and burn on them. You won't find me cheering their success. I'm turning into Bill. What the hell is wrong with us? > [H]aving witnessed multiple marriages that sink into long-lasting > ruts, with little chance of change, and now seeing affairs shake two [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and none of those things knocked them out of their ruts...an affair > did. If the people are inward-directed, those sorts of things won't help them any. Instead of an affair, married people in a rut who need a shakeup should get up at 6am and work at a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, or something, for two hours before they go to work. Then they should return after work for another two hours. Feed dinner to people you normally wouldn't let sit next to you on the bus, and then clean up after they're done and wash the dishes. And then get up early the next day to do it again. The act of loving your neighbors -- actually doing something to make their lives better, not just imagining warm fuzzies in the general direction of poor people -- often has an amazing effect on how you see yourself in relation to other people. Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "I don't know what your destiny will be, but one thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who ave sought and found how to serve." -- Albert Schweitzer Dr. Nancy, I think people should be volunteering regardless of the condition of the marriage. That said, and I say this again, I'm not an advocate of affairs...I'm just saying, I have seen them help a few marriages (as taboo as that is to say in this oh-so-conservative country) and I wonder if they (affairs) have helped lots more, and how, and why? > Dr. Nancy, > > I think people should be volunteering regardless of the condition of > the marriage. > > That said, and I say this again, I'm not an advocate of affairs... Not yet, but you like to be! You want to believe that affairs are good, and are looking for crumbs of evidence to support what you want to believe. > I'm > just saying, I have seen them help a few marriages (as taboo as that is > to say in this oh-so-conservative country) and I wonder if they > (affairs) have helped lots more, and how, and why? Are you interested to learn how and why affairs have hurt lots of marriages? Lets say that you find what you're looking for, and few more couples tell you that affairs have helped their marriages. Then what? Are you going to suggest people have affairs to fix their broken marriages? Look. We live in a world of unsubstantiated assumptions. Bet you ate your eggs when you were young, 'cause they "were good for you," but you probably watch them carefully now for cholesterol. First time I heard the Japanese ate raw fish back in the seventies, I thought they were primitives; now it's my favorite food. How many millions believed -- assumed -- the Catholic Church was about doing good...until...well, need we go there? And how long was it assumed women weren't intelligent enough to vote, or have serious jobs? Assumptions. We all make them. We assume marriage is good. Affairs are bad. But is that patently the case? Is it the case in all cultures, around the world? I don't think so. Maybe marriage isn't so good...certainly...statistics say it doesn't work at the well for most of us. And maybe affairs aren't that bad...who knows, maybe if we were more accepting of affairs, we'd have better marriages? Radical thought, I realize, but something I want to look at. It may be un-PC. It may be taboo. But I think it is worth looking at what is, in my mind, a pretty rotten institution (marriage) in a whole other light. > Look. We live in a world of unsubstantiated assumptions. Bet you ate > your eggs when you were young, 'cause they "were good for you," but you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Assumptions. We all make them. We assume marriage is good. Affairs > are bad. But is that patently the case? I think you may live in a world with more unsubstantiated assumptions than my world. I don't assume marriage is good. But I like _my_ marriage. I _do_ believe dishonesty is bad. So if consenting adults can have an affair while being honest with each other and their loved ones, I don't see anything inherently bad about that. But this isn't what most affairs are like. > Is it the case in all > cultures, around the world? I don't think so. Maybe marriage isn't so > good...certainly...statistics say it doesn't work at the well for most > of us. And maybe affairs aren't that bad...who knows, maybe if we were > more accepting of affairs, we'd have better marriages? Radical > thought, I realize, but something I want to look at. I think there is a kernel of an insight here. By "affairs" people often mean sexual liaisons outside of one's marriage. As important as sex is, I think people often focus too much on it. While lieing to one's spouse is almost certain to damage one's marriage (if your sposue expects truthfulnees), sexual fidelity alone is not nearly enough to keep one's relationship healthy and rewarding. > It may be un-PC. It may be taboo. Well, don't flatter yourself too much about being an iconoclast here. The questions you are asking are ressonable, but they really aren't that original. > But I think it is worth looking at > what is, in my mind, a pretty rotten institution (marriage) in a whole > other light. I see. What do you find rotten about marriage? How do you think increasing the dishonesty and hypocrisy between partners could make marriage less rotten? Or are you proposing open marriage (in which case it isn't really an affair)? >> Look. We live in a world of unsubstantiated assumptions. Bet you ate >> your eggs when you were young, 'cause they "were good for you," but you [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > affair while being honest with each other and their loved ones, I > don't see anything inherently bad about that. But then it's not called an affair is it? Isn't it swinging or open or some such at that point? I thought an affair was deceitful by definition. > But this isn't what most affairs are like. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > marriage less rotten? Or are you proposing open marriage (in which > case it isn't really an affair)? I feel overanalysis has kicked in. People have affairs. I agree that for it to be an "affair," it has to be hidden, or "deceitful." All I'm saying...ALL I'M SUGGESTING...is that an affair, like a car accident, a death, a loss of a job, can shake things up and ultimately yield more positives for the marriage than negatives. As I've said, I've seen this first hand. My observations of marriage is that like water moves downhill, marriages often move towards ruts...and are seldom knocked out of them. If an affair can do this...maybe frequently does this...than let's acknowledge it, understand it, be aware of it. And, when it happens, embrace. Am I advocating affairs? No. I acknowledge they happen, a lot, and I refuse to a) think those in them should be banished to the tower and b) only see that they are bad, cause they aren't. >I feel overanalysis has kicked in. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > My observations of marriage is that like water moves downhill, > marriages often move towards ruts...and are seldom knocked out of them. I would agree as long as you substitute sometimes for often, but that's only because I don't have any evidence to suggest often. > If an affair can do this...maybe frequently does this...than let's > acknowledge it, understand it, be aware of it. And, when it happens, > embrace. Ok. I am not actually challenging you. If the affair gives them the kick in the rump that they need, well Ok then. My only comment (which it would have been helpful if you quoted by the way) was how to achieve understanding. You already have 2 cases. So you know it CAN happen. If you want to know any more than that, you have to look at the set of all affair participants not just the ones with the positive outcomes. There perhaps you can gleen the difference between the ones with positive outcomes and ones without. > Am I advocating affairs? No. I acknowledge they happen, a lot, and I > refuse to a) think those in them should be banished to the tower and b) > only see that they are bad, cause they aren't. Well I'm not the tower banishing type, because basically what other people do with their marriages is none of my business. I guess if there is someone faced with a cheating spouse, not leaping to the conclusion that it's over could be good. Though I don't know that people do leap to that conclusion. For the record, I do think that they are bad, always bad. BUT even bad mistakes can be overcome. > I feel overanalysis has kicked in. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > yield more positives for the marriage than negatives. As I've said, > I've seen this first hand. Well, of course it _could_ do that. But given that most often it _doesn't_ do that, it seems like a very odd focus for a writing project. A more interesting question (IMO) would be the following: "Although most affairs have negative consequences for the marriage, occasionally after an affair the couple is able to build a stronger relationship than they had before. What is the difference between couples who are able to do that and couples who aren't? And for the couples who are able to do that, how do they accomplish it?" >I feel overanalysis has kicked in. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >refuse to a) think those in them should be banished to the tower and b) >only see that they are bad, cause they aren't. My shrink says, It takes a 'catastrophic event' to motivate change. An affair could be classified as a type of a catastrophic event that may motivate change. What kind of change, dunno, an affair is usually an event that creates a lot of negativity and destruction. Not something I would think of as invigorating, unless I thrived on anxieties that go along with negativity and destruction. O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk about. I've just read a book that spoke about this very subject. Not the whole book mind you, but it delved a bit into the soul's place in love, and touched upon the subject of infidelity and how sometimes it could improve the marriage. I was keen to know of people whom this happened to. So, Mr. Author, I think you are justified in researching this and wish you luck. I think you should pose the same question to the alt.divorce group though, there was a woman there a few years ago who was doing this and she seemed quite happy about it. She wasn't divorced...maybe she is now though. I'd be dying to know. I'm happily married and I love my husband. I'm also "in love" with another man. He's also married with children and does not want to leave his marriage. I have not had an affair. I have not met him. He is an old sweetheart who recently contacted me via email. I would never separate my family because of my feelings of old love/renewed love for this person. I know enough not to ruin a good thing. Nor can I deny the adrenalin rush I feel and heart pounding that signafies intense emotion. Because I am in love I feel great. It helps me be nicer and more patient with my family. I'm enjoying the increased testosterone and seritonin going through my system which translates to great sex with my husband. It's an affair of the mind. Like a fantasy, and my husband and family get the benefits. > O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in > actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > with my husband. It's an affair of the mind. Like a fantasy, and my > husband and family get the benefits. Suemedia, I think there are many people out there who would argue that you are, in fact, having an affair. I don't mean that in any judgemental or accusatory way, I just think that one could argue -- and some will -- that a written connection with sexual overtones is an affair, whether or not there is physical contact. (Some would probably argue that if your husband doesn't know about the connection that it is definitively an affair). Either way, what you are experiencing, in terms of increased sexual interest in your husband as a result of this connection is EXACTLY the kind of thing I am talking about. Marriages are hard to keep fresh, and sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to do it, even if the kick comes from the mighty pen. But your story does make me think about degrees. "Has an affair helped invigorate your marriage?" It never occurred to me that when I posed the question I would have to define "affair." Is a man who watches porn at night on his computer to get turned on before going downstairs and having great sex with his wife having an affair? Is a woman who gets turned on flirting with -- but never touching -- a coworker, than bringing that sexual energy home to her husband having an affair? If these are all "acceptable" behaviors (I certainly think they are), that is, if it is acceptable to be turned on by someone else if that energy is taken out on one's spouse, than that begs another question? What about a husband who does engage in sex occassionally outside the marriage, but feels young and invigorated as a result and finds himself more sexually interested in his wife BECAUSE OF these "affairs?" Why is that so bad but the porn or office flirting is ok? Cause we're puritans? Cause there is a risk of disease? Cause there is a risk of pregnancy? > > O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in > > actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > puritans? Cause there is a risk of disease? Cause there is a risk of > pregnancy? If the love of your life was screwing some guy(s) on occasion, then hopping in the sac thinking about him, would you be asking the same questions? Or would you be acting all jealous and butt hurt? > > O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in > > actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > your husband doesn't know about the connection that it is definitively > an affair). Yes I could see that. But I don't think four emails and an overactive imagination constitutes an affair. > Either way, what you are experiencing, in terms of increased sexual > interest in your husband as a result of this connection is EXACTLY the > kind of thing I am talking about. Marriages are hard to keep fresh, and > sometimes it takes a kick in the pants to do it, even if the kick comes > from the mighty pen. Agreed > But your story does make me think about degrees. "Has an affair helped > invigorate your marriage?" It never occurred to me that when I posed > the question I would have to define "affair." Is a man who watches > porn at night on his computer to get turned on before going downstairs > and having great sex with his wife having an affair? Since my husband has been caught doing this, and we've discussed it I have to answer here. At first I was bothered. But then since we talked about it, it doesn't bother me anymore. He's a little more discreet about it now, our sex life is fine, and I feel confident about myself, so as long as he's happy, I'm happy. To me its not an affair in any sense of the word. More like a little visual stimulation. Is a woman who > gets turned on flirting with -- but never touching -- a coworker, than > bringing that sexual energy home to her husband having an affair? What about cyber-sex with strangers? Is hearing the spoken word an affair? I think the affair has to be with the same person, repeated? What about sex-aholics, people with multiple transgressions? What > about a husband who does engage in sex occassionally outside the > marriage, but feels young and invigorated as a result and finds himself > more sexually interested in his wife BECAUSE OF these "affairs?" does this happen? does this happen to women? No experience here. Would be interested to know. From reading the discussion groups it seems most people get caught, or admit, then get miserable. Why > is that so bad but the porn or office flirting is ok? Cause we're > puritans? Cause there is a risk of disease? Cause there is a risk of > pregnancy? All of the above, plus loss of the partner that you are raising offspring with. But another question is, why if we change as individuals throughout our lifetimes, do we figure our marriages and partners must stay the same? And if we acknowledge change in ourselves, why is it a bad thing, or why must we take it so personally when we or a partner needs to grow in a different direction? Actually I think I know the answer to these questions but it doesn't mean I'm not trying to find a better way to react. Or rather, to change and grow, but not sacrifice my partner for some rather basal needs I have. I feel I may have more of a man's point of view on this rather than a womans. I'd like to hear from women suffering from unusual levels of testosterone. >> > O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in >> > actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > have more of a man's point of view on this rather than a womans. I'd > like to hear from women suffering from unusual levels of testosterone. There is something about complicating your life that must be considered. By that I mean when you introduce new people into your little world you run the risk of having introduced unforeseen outcomes. As long as fantasy is kept just that, fantasy it is not really a problem. The primary danger of fantasy is that it becomes obsessive behavior. In general fantasy is always more satisfying and reliable than fantasy made real. > Yes I could see that. But I don't think four emails and an overactive > imagination constitutes an affair. No, but can you be sure it'll stay limited to that? > > But your story does make me think about degrees. "Has an affair helped > > invigorate your marriage?" It never occurred to me that when I posed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > have to answer here. At first I was bothered. But then since we talked > about it, it doesn't bother me anymore. That's very good. Now, if you found out your husband was having a similar experience that you're having right now (a woman he feels in love with, with whom he exchanges emails, and allows his imaginations take him where yours take you!) would it bother you? Sometimes I wish he would....Hey maybe he is, the chair I'm sitting in smells a bit sharp... But yes, of course I'm only human. >> O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in >> actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > your husband doesn't know about the connection that it is definitively > an affair). I think what others would say is completely irrelevant. What would her husband say / feel? THAT is the determinant of cheating IMO. > Either way, what you are experiencing, in terms of increased sexual > interest in your husband as a result of this connection is EXACTLY the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > puritans? Cause there is a risk of disease? Cause there is a risk of > pregnancy? > But your story does make me think about degrees. "Has an affair helped > invigorate your marriage?" It never occurred to me that when I posed [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > more sexually interested in his wife BECAUSE OF these "affairs?" Why > is that so bad but the porn or office flirting is ok? Some people think porn and office flirting aren't OK either. But the answer to why extramarital sex is "so bad" is that it *ins't* bad at all, if it's acceptable to you and your spouse. > Cause we're > puritans? Cause there is a risk of disease? Cause there is a risk of > pregnancy? I'd say all of the above except for being puritans (there are many non-puritans who don't like their partners cheating on them). Nonetheless, if two people agree that having multiple sexual partners is "not bad", the other problems can be overcome. There are ways to prevent disease and pregnancy. > O.K. I've been following this for a bit and am VERY interested in > actually hearing any responses from those who this book would talk [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > with my husband. It's an affair of the mind. Like a fantasy, and my > husband and family get the benefits. Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ <snip>> >>I'm happily married and I love my husband. I'm also "in love" with >>another man. He's also married with children and does not want to leave [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ I feel so wrong because this is one of my favorite love stories. Cheryl >> Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" >> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ >> > I feel so wrong because this is one of my favorite love stories. "The last time I felt like this I was falling in love..." <sniff> Yeah, mine too! Tai >>> Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" >>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Tai Estelle and I saw this movie years ago when it was new. We got into a discussion about it. The basic question was can a man or woman actually love two partners at the same time. In the example of the movie, there was a distinct plan and time frame for each partner. That is, for her she had her husband and family and once a year she had her lover. The same was true for the guy. If you noticed, the more times they were together, the more it started looking like a marriage. Doesn't Bill Gates have some arrangement like this? >>>>Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" >>>>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Doesn't Bill Gates have some arrangement like this? I shudder to think and yes, I agree the longer the affair went on, it took on the appearance of a marriage. Cheryl I am so sad to see this link descend into nostalgia about an old, and not really that great, Alan Alda movie. > I am so sad to see this link descend into nostalgia about an old, and > not really that great, Alan Alda movie. Well, the film is certainly old, and probably not that great (I haven't seen it myself). But this discussion hardly qualifies as a "descent" for this thread! >> I am so sad to see this link descend into nostalgia about an old, and >> not really that great, Alan Alda movie. You'll find the "Complaints about Thread Drift Department" down the hall on the left. > Well, the film is certainly old, and probably not that great (I > haven't seen it myself). I doubt whether it's your cup of tea - it's fairly soppy although I think well-acted - but it could be worth dipping into as long as you had a back up film to move on to. Burstyn and Alda are good together. Tai >>> I am so sad to see this link descend into nostalgia about an old, and >>> not really that great, Alan Alda movie. > >You'll find the "Complaints about Thread Drift Department" down the hall on >the left. Just look for letters WC on the door ;) >>>> Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" >>>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > more times they were together, the more it started looking like a > marriage. My husband and I had a similar discussion the first time and the times we've seen it since. The premise interests me because I'm not monogamous by nature, rather I am for practical or pragmatic reasons and because that's the agreement my husband and I have. I think it's quite possible to love two people in a romantic sense at the same time but I suspect it's very rare to be able to do it well! The time constraints (or rationing) the Alda and Burstyn characters placed on themselves make the idea more believable. Another thing we like about the film now is that now, years and a long(ish) marriage later, we can appreciate even more the growth and changes each person went through and we're more aware of some of the subtleties that, due to our youth, we missed the first time . > Doesn't Bill Gates have some arrangement like this? I have no idea! I'm sure unlimited wealth can purchase a great deal of flexibility in one's partners or allow one to search out like-minded partners much more easily than most of us can. Tai >>>>> Sounds like "Same Time, Next Year" >>>>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078199/ [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Tai I like the way you expressed your "non monogamous" nature Tai. I have always felt pretty much the same about myself. Yet here I am, lo these many years later, and I have surprised even myself. If you don't think that's an affair, then just forward this post over to your husband. Chances are, he might disagree with you *a bit*. One thing to keep in mind, is that keeping secrets, lying, and other forms of behaviour like that create signifigant amounts of physiological arousal. It's entirely possible it's the lying turning you on, not the love. > Look. We live in a world of unsubstantiated assumptions. You mean "you", not "we", right? > Bet you ate > your eggs when you were young, 'cause they "were good for you," but you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > need we go there? And how long was it assumed women weren't > intelligent enough to vote, or have serious jobs? 'K... > Assumptions. We all make them. We assume marriage is good. Not me. I don't assume marriage is good. I am very happily married and wouldn't want to be single. There are people for whom marriage is a terrible way to live. > Affairs are bad. If by "affair" you mean being dishonest and cheat on your spouse, then you bed I think it's bad. But you are putting "affairs" as the opposite of "marriage"? Maybe by affair you mean sexual relationships without being married. If so, I don't think it's bad. [...] > Radical > thought, I realize, LOL... You give yourself way too much credit. There is nothing radical in what you say. Look, there are people who would choose open marriage, and if it works for them, then great. There are others who never want to commit to one person. Again, more power to them. Saying that people should commit to one spouse and then cheat on them in order to make their committed relationship better is, well ... you figure it out! > but something I want to look at. > > It may be un-PC. It may be taboo. But I think it is worth looking at > what is, in my mind, a pretty rotten institution (marriage) in a whole > other light. Then why do you care to *help* marriages with affairs? Just skip the marriage and jump into the affair - and do it proudly, without having to drop yourself to the level of a liar and a cheat. Umm...cause like a 100 million people already are...married. > Look. We live in a world of unsubstantiated assumptions. Bet you ate > your eggs when you were young, 'cause they "were good for you," but you [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > what is, in my mind, a pretty rotten institution (marriage) in a whole > other light. In order to determine if they are "good" or "bad" or whatever though, you have to look at affairs from ALL the population having them, not just the ones that bettered the marriage. >> I'm >> just saying, I have seen them help a few marriages (as taboo as that is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >tell you that affairs have helped their marriages. Then what? Are you >going to suggest people have affairs to fix their broken marriages? Seems to me that this is a person looking to justify his own affair, perhaps....either one that he's had or is thinking of having. I'm just judging from this snippet as I haven't read the rest of the thread. Lauri in WA, going to work now so I'll be quiet for the rest of the afternoon. :) > Dr. Nancy, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to say in this oh-so-conservative country) and I wonder if they > (affairs) have helped lots more, and how, and why? I wonder if you could get a grant to study it. |
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