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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / May 2006



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Apologies - I don't think that I will find an answer here.

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doug - 24 May 2006 19:14 GMT
I am once again wondering about where my marriage is going.  My wife
has just told me that she doesn't think of me as a husband, but as a
replacement father.  That may be weird, but it makes sense of what she
has been saying for years, for example, the argument that sex is
irrelevant - she wouldn't want sex with a father-figure.

But how I feel now is summarized in a quote at the top of a chapter in
Passionate Marriage:

"Not a day goes by that a man doesn't have to choose
Between what he wants and what he's afraid to lose.
                         - from a blues song.

I am sure that there are many marriages that hang together because a
bad marriage is better than no marriage.  And every time I say that I
am going to move out and take control of my life, every woman within
earshot choruses that I am not capable of it.  That is my wife's
favourite argument: that I can't live without her, so I have to take
her on her terms.

Doug L.
Rog' - 24 May 2006 19:46 GMT
> And every time I say that I am going to move out and take
> control of my life, every woman within earshot choruses that
> I am not capable of it.  That is my wife's favourite argument:
> that I can't live without her, so I have to take her on her terms.

You have a stong emotional bond (or dependency) that you are
afraid to break. If you can detach yourself and view the situation
more objectively, you might see that she's "not all that."  You
deserve better and the chances are good that you can do better.
=R=
A. - 24 May 2006 20:04 GMT
> I am once again wondering about where my marriage is going.  My wife
> has just told me that she doesn't think of me as a husband, but as a
> replacement father.  That may be weird, but it makes sense of what she
> has been saying for years, for example, the argument that sex is
> irrelevant - she wouldn't want sex with a father-figure.

Don't stop right there.  There's no reason she can't revise and
incorporate the dad-energy into a broader perspective of Men.

At any rate, be aware that she will very likely to the same thing
again (regardless of the age of the person she's with), if that's
what she's doing.

> But how I feel now is summarized in a quote at the top of a chapter in
> Passionate Marriage:
>
> "Not a day goes by that a man doesn't have to choose
> Between what he wants and what he's afraid to lose.
>                           - from a blues song.

That's the blues, dude!  There are other songs - although I know
how you feel.

> I am sure that there are many marriages that hang together because a
> bad marriage is better than no marriage.  And every time I say that I
> am going to move out and take control of my life, every woman within
> earshot choruses that I am not capable of it.  That is my wife's
> favourite argument: that I can't live without her, so I have to take
> her on her terms.

She shouldn't want a sexless, dad-oriented marriage, either.  That's
bogus, if you ask me.  But - are you saying you're divorcing her and
heading off to alt.support.divorce already?

If you were truly seen as a dad-figure (by her), she wouldn't be
saying you weren't going to move out, move on (dads always do).
It's children who hang around through dependency.

So - get a copy of Berne's famous book on Transactional Analysis,
read the second half, and see if you can't start playing a different
game, in which you are neither her parent nor her child.

It's worth a shot.

A.

> Doug L.
Joy - 24 May 2006 23:56 GMT
>I am once again wondering about where my marriage is going.  My wife
> has just told me that she doesn't think of me as a husband, but as a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I am sure that there are many marriages that hang together because a
> bad marriage is better than no marriage.

You might want to insert the phrase "the particular people involve have the
opinion that" in between "because" and "a".  Other people obviously hold
other opinions.  The question is, what is *your* opinion?

And every time I say that I
> am going to move out and take control of my life, every woman within
> earshot choruses that I am not capable of it.

Should this be taken to construe that other people make your decisions for
you?  I'm not saying that you should leave your wife, since I don't know
either of you and really don't have any idea what would be the right thing
to do - but I am curious about your statement above.  Do you habitually just
do whatever the people around you say, or were you just using that as a
figure of speech?

That is my wife's
> favourite argument: that I can't live without her, so I have to take
> her on her terms.

Is it that you can't live without her, or that she can't live without you?
Emma Anne - 25 May 2006 00:36 GMT
> And every time I say that I
> am going to move out and take control of my life, every woman within
> earshot choruses that I am not capable of it.

I think if it were me I would want to know whether or not this was true.
I am not saying it would be time to file for divorce or anything, but I
think I'd be exploring my own capability of functioning on my own about
now.
doug - 25 May 2006 01:34 GMT
Thanks folks.  I have been going through some kind of emotional crisis.
I walked out of a training session because I thought it was childish,
now there was this blowup.  I am an ex-lawyer (no questions please, I
am in Oz and it is all different.)  I have known clients to separate at
65.  I am 63, my wife is 61, and we have been married 35 years this
October.  We are a wonderful team, so long as we don't try to be a
couple as well - that is about how I would sum it up.

A laugh for the girls:  my wife wanted to wash a doona.  Our past
experience has been that they go lumpy.  A tip from the Internet
covered washing blankets as well.  It says "It came as a shock to me to
realise that blankets aren't self cleanoing like sheep....  Dissolve
soapflakes or wool mix in the bathtub.  Add the blankets, jump on them
for about ten minutes.  (This is a useful operation for a couple of
kids, as long as they have clean feet and the dog doesn't join in.)"

Just make sure that the dog's feet are clean as well.

Doug.
A. - 25 May 2006 02:59 GMT
> Thanks folks.  I have been going through some kind of emotional crisis.
>  I walked out of a training session because I thought it was childish,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Doug.

Gettin' purdy loose there, Dug.
Tai - 25 May 2006 03:21 GMT
> I am once again wondering about where my marriage is going.  My wife
> has just told me that she doesn't think of me as a husband, but as a
> replacement father.  That may be weird, but it makes sense of what she
> has been saying for years, for example, the argument that sex is
> irrelevant - she wouldn't want sex with a father-figure.

Realistically, given her age, it really is very unlikely your wife will
suddenly turn into the sex and love goddess she's never been, whether she
thinks of you as a father figure or not.

> But how I feel now is summarized in a quote at the top of a chapter in
> Passionate Marriage:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> favourite argument: that I can't live without her, so I have to take
> her on her terms.

Is she right? Or don't you know? Do you want to know? Given your age there
may be a chance of happiness with another woman for you but do you think
you're in a position to be a good partner for anyone just at the moment?
What are you doing to get your depression under control? That seems to me to
be the highest priority for you right now.

I'm sorry you're going through another bad patch, Doug.  The weather's been
pretty miserable lately too and that probably isn't helping much, especially
if you're under each other's feet and getting on each other's nerves.

Tai
shinypenny - 25 May 2006 14:08 GMT
> I am once again wondering about where my marriage is going.  My wife
> has just told me that she doesn't think of me as a husband, but as a
> replacement father.  That may be weird, but it makes sense of what she
> has been saying for years, for example, the argument that sex is
> irrelevant - she wouldn't want sex with a father-figure.

Are you tired of being the parent in the relationship? Can you change
that dynamic? How can you act more child-like? You're not too old... if
kids are grown and gone, and work responsibilities are less of a
priority, then consider it freedom to get a little child-like and have
fun in the world.

What did you enjoy doing as a child? Getting down in the mud with your
toy cars? Digging holes to China? Drawing with crayons? Going fishing?
What did you want to be when you grow up? An astronaut? A rock star? An
NBA player? These are all clues that may lead you to re-embracing your
inner child again.

Regardless of whether it helps your marriage or not, do try something
new and childish and have fun with it. Invite your DW along too; let
her see your sillier side. Think of Urf: he's one big 60-something
child. :-)

jen
doug - 27 May 2006 09:22 GMT
Thanks Tai and Jen.  Yes, I am going through a bad patch and it doesn't
seem to go away.  I get SAD (but fortunately the latitude here is only
about 36.75, nothing like Seattle.)  I routinely increase my
anti-depressants during our winter.  I have to see my psychiatrist on
Monday and may ask for a new approach.

We have a basically good marriage.  I am messed up about emotion
generally.  I was "doing fine" as a child until my emotions in general
and my sexuality in particular demanded expression.  I am a mixture of
enjoying marriage while resenting the dependence it brings.  Not that I
want to be the dominant partner.  I am probably having a "middle-age
crisis" at 63, doing everything years late.

My wife does have her "faults", differences from my fantasy ideal, but
I am quite happy with her around.  Remember Ted shopping around for a
dress for his wife?  My wife is the same size.  She isn't exactly a
houri.  But when I am in bed with her, I get turned on all the same.

I thought that it was urf talking about whether to have only one child.
My wife was an only child; so was her cousin.  It wasn't fun for her.
Not having a brother, she wasn't familiar with how boys and men think
until she started dating.  We can't control the sex of our children (I
finished up with 3 girls) but we are both glad that we had more than
one.

I could say that her present attitudes remind me of the spoilt only
child, except that she wasn't spoilt.

When we finished counselling together, I noticed the beginnings of a
tenderness towards her that hadn't been there before.  It was
completely new.  That has got lost in the meantime.  The honeymoon was
good fun; then we were largely very good friends.  We hid from each
other by directing our attentions elsewhere, to the children.  Two
years plus of separation didn't help at all, but as one doctor said, it
came at an age when our marriage could take it.  I am still avoiding
any intimacy.

Tai, no, I don't want  a sex goddess.  I simply want my wife to stop
saying that I have to adapt myself to what she wants and she doesn't
have to make allowances for anybody.  I don't expect her to become one
suddenly;  as I told a counsellor, I merely want her to acknowledge
that our relationship is a sexual one.  Even a beginning of
boyfriend-girlfriend kissing would be something.

Jen, yes, I am tired of being the parent, but I don't want to be the
child either.  I see it as "my problem".  Because I have a diagnosed
emotional illness, my wife could blame me for all our differences.  But
now I am just caught in the feeling of "the last stage of life."  The
answer, as I tell so many others, is to live one day at a time.

Since I started this thread, I have gone through a deep "wipe-out" of
depression of about 3 days' duration, but I haven't bounced back as far
as I usually do.  I could always count on about one 3-day patch a
month.

One psychiatrist was of opinion that he had "caught" me too late; that
I was now too set to expect any improvement.  I proved him wrong.

Thanks again,

Doug L.
 
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