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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2006



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Re: intimacy question

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Dr Nancy's Sweetie - 24 Jun 2006 19:16 GMT
"Sarah_P <sarahpowers34bspamnot@hotmail.com>" wrote:
> I have come to understand that he needs sex a couple of times a week
> or he gets very frustrated.  How does that compare to other men --
> should he really NEED that much sex?  Sometimes I wonder if he's
> revving himself up with porn or something?

It doesn't matter how he compares to other men.  You didn't marry any
other men, you married him.  That said, what you describe doesn't sound
the least bit unusual.  As for "revving himself up", some women have
posted to this group that their husbands have replaced them with looking
at porn.  It may be that because he's looking at other women less, he's
liking you more.

> I am also uncomfortable with some of the things he wants to do, and
> that makes me have some trust issues, which makes it harder for me to
> feel like I can really relax.

A TV show about the Nazis included the following quotation attributed
to Adolf Hitler:

   When a man is hungry, and he dreams in the night, he does not dream
   about bread and butter.  He dreams about caviar and champagne.

What this means for you is that, the longer your husband is hungry for
sex and thinking about it, the more far-out his fantasies are likely to
get.  If you can work out a situation where he's well satisfied a couple
nights a week, it's likely that he'll be less particular about exactly
what it is you're getting up to.  (He may have specific fetishes or
long-term fantasies, and those won't go away, but even in that case they
may occupy less of his mind, or become less extreme, if you can manage
even part of them.)

I read somewhere (maybe "alt.romance"?) about a couple that had the
problem that he liked her to wear dresses and skirts and look feminine,
and she preferred to cook dinner in shorts and a t-shirt, and besides he
wore denim jeans more than anything else.  They came to an explicit
deal, that twice a month they'd both dress up one level of fancy and eat
at a restaurant with cloth napkins.  In exchange for her dressing up all
pretty, he would get dressed up himself and take her out to eat.  They
had both decided they liked it -- what started as a somewhat mercenary
quid-pro-quo, each doing something to get something in return, had
turned into something they both actively enjoyed.  Neither felt they
were giving anything up.

It may seem a little detached, or something, somehow, to work out a
bargain with your partner, when you hope that they'll just spontaneously
start doing exactly what you want out of pure love and telepathy, but
telepathy is in short supply.  At least an explicit deal has the
advantage that each person gets something they want, and neither will
have to do something they don't want to.

So maybe you and your husband should work out some sort of explicit
deal.  You might start by telling him what you don't want to do, what
you really like to do, and what things you do because he likes them, and
because, while they don't hold any attraction for you in isolation, you
like the *effect they have on him*.  Then tell him what obstacles stand
in the way of doing things more often, and what you'd like him to do to
help deal with them.  Tell him you'll make an effort if he'll make an
effort too.  (As a stay-at-home mom, maybe dressing up and going out
twice a month to eat with cloth napkins would do you a world of good.)

I have often felt that the best single book on getting along with people
is _The Screwtape Letters_, by CS Lewis.  You might want to read, with
your husband, Letter 26, in which Screwtape describes how to sow the
seeds which later turn into domestic hatred.  He advises that you can
get people, who are being "unselfish" by trying to do what the other
person wants, to end up with nobody doing what they want, and everybody
feeling that they were taken advantage of and their sacrifice not even
appreciated.  Honestly saying what you want, and taking turns or working
out bargains, is a much better way to go.

Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
"If everybody gives a little, everybody gets a lot." -- Pete Cottrell
mr.cin - 25 Jun 2006 01:19 GMT
for crying out loud, most men under 40 like sex every night if possible.
Under 30, add a couple for mornings and weekend afternoons.    Thank God I
didn't marry you.  No offense -- I am sure you feel the same way.

> "Sarah_P <sarahpowers34bspamnot@hotmail.com>" wrote:
>> I have come to understand that he needs sex a couple of times a week
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
> "If everybody gives a little, everybody gets a lot." -- Pete Cottrell
Tony Miller - 25 Jun 2006 05:39 GMT
> for crying out loud, most men under 40 like sex every night if possible.
> Under 30, add a couple for mornings and weekend afternoons.    Thank God I
> didn't marry you.  No offense -- I am sure you feel the same way.

You could only marry him if you moved to Massachusetts :)

>> "Sarah_P <sarahpowers34bspamnot@hotmail.com>" wrote:
>>> I have come to understand that he needs sex a couple of times a week
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
>> Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy
>> "If everybody gives a little, everybody gets a lot." -- Pete Cottrell
Tony Miller - 25 Jun 2006 05:38 GMT
> I have often felt that the best single book on getting along with people
> is _The Screwtape Letters_, by CS Lewis.

Fabulous book.  "If you can't tempt him into sexual impurity, do the next
best thing.  Encourage him to marry the wrong woman" :)
Randy - 25 Jun 2006 22:52 GMT
> "Sarah_P <sarahpowers34bspamnot@hotmail.com>" wrote:
> > I have come to understand that he needs sex a couple of times a week
> > or he gets very frustrated.  How does that compare to other men --
> > should he really NEED that much sex?  Sometimes I wonder if he's
> > revving himself up with porn or something?

Parallel counseling sessions from the movie "Annie Hall",
in answer to the question "how often do you have sex?"

Diane Keaton: Oh all the time, like three times a week...

Woody Allen: Hardly ever, maybe three times a week...

No, wanting sex a couple of times a week is not unusual. If
anything, it's on the average-to-low side. (I won't get into
the can-of-worms of how often is normal to actually
*have* sex).

                   - Randy
Jack T - 29 Jun 2006 16:17 GMT
I really do understand that it is individual and that he is in the normal
range.  I am differentiating between "wants sex" and "needs sex."  He wants
sex daily, but we are coming to a deeper discussion about "needs" and I am
coming to undersatnd that he "needs" (sexual) intimacy a couple of times a
week to feel emotionally stable.  That feels very different than a horny
Woody Allen complaining that he is only having sex three times a week.

I used to think his moaning about sexual frequency was just a question of
what we used to refer to in high school as "blue balls" <blush> but I am
realizing that he is much more emotionally dependent on me (and on sex with
me) than I had realized, and I was wondering how normal that really is,
since it does not fit the emotionally distant/aloof stereotype of men I had
believed before.

The reference to porn in my earlier post was a bit flip and not very well
expressed.  The concern is that I have heard porn fuels fantasies and raises
expectations and can create a feeling of frustration if the pornee isn't
able to experience in real life what he comes to believe is available to
other people (whether or not it really is available to other people).  This
may take the form of frequency ("There are other women who are sexual all
the time.") or actions ("All sorts of people indulge in anal sex.").
Neither of these are quotes from my husband, but I do think the media
(including the porn subsidiary) fuel some unrealistic expectations.

p.s.  My husband has brought up the Annie Hall scene before, to which I have
responded that it was clearly written by a man.

>> "Sarah_P <sarahpowers34bspamnot@hotmail.com>" wrote:
>> > I have come to understand that he needs sex a couple of times a week
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>                    - Randy
Doug Anderson - 29 Jun 2006 16:23 GMT
> I really do understand that it is individual and that he is in the normal
> range.  I am differentiating between "wants sex" and "needs sex."  He wants
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Woody Allen complaining that he is only having sex three times a
> week.

OK,  Woody Allen is a neurotic, insecure mess, but why is his complaint less
about "needs" than anyone else's?

> I used to think his moaning about sexual frequency was just a question of
> what we used to refer to in high school as "blue balls" <blush> but I am
> realizing that he is much more emotionally dependent on me (and on sex with
> me) than I had realized, and I was wondering how normal that really is,
> since it does not fit the emotionally distant/aloof stereotype of men I had
> believed before.

I find stereotypes to be an enemy to good relationships (and to good
understanding in general).  Men and women are more alike than
different, though individuals vary hugely.  

When I'm trying to understand someone who behaves differently from me,
one of the things I look for is an understanding of what the
motivation is for their behavior.  More useful than saying "oh, that's
just the way women are."

> The reference to porn in my earlier post was a bit flip and not very well
> expressed.  The concern is that I have heard porn fuels fantasies and raises
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Neither of these are quotes from my husband, but I do think the media
> (including the porn subsidiary) fuel some unrealistic expectations.

You may or may not be right about this, but in either case,  I think
that someone which is important for mature relationships is getting
beyond our conceptions about what "most people" are like and what our
spouse "should" be like, and coming to grips with what our spouse is
really like.

Of course this applies to both you and your husband!

> p.s.  My husband has brought up the Annie Hall scene before, to which I have
> responded that it was clearly written by a man.

Well, it was.  Allen wrote it.  But given the symmetry between
Keaton's lines and Allen's lines,  I wonder why you say this?  It
showed (I thought) equal sympathy for the high-desire-partner and the
low-desire-partner.
Tony Miller - 29 Jun 2006 19:29 GMT
> p.s.  My husband has brought up the Annie Hall scene before, to which I have
> responded that it was clearly written by a man.

I never heard of a woman named "Jack" before, unless you're in a gay
marriage, "Jack" :)
 
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