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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / September 2006Marriage saved after infidelity! But...
Well, first let me say that this is my first post to this usenet group, my first post in a long time to ANY usenet group for that matter, and it may be a little long, but I really need some input on this matter and it really isn't something I can readily discuss with any of my acquaintances. First things first. I'm 40, my wife is 37. We've been married for almost 13 years. I'll skip most of the details, but basically I thought everything was pretty much okay for most of that time, I mean, we had our problems, and we argued like most married couples, but never physically or anything like that. Now please don't berate me or tell me I'm an idiot for what I'm about to tell you guys. In retrospect, I already know everything you'd have to say. I fully regret everything that has happened. But let me tell the story... Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. I had always had the fantasy of seeing her with another man, and actually, she had already appeared in the amateur section of an adult magazine where she had gotten tons of fan mail, only a couple of which we allowed to be delivered to our house via the magazine. This is where the idea kind of stemmed from. Well, we both decided that our marriage wasn't really strong enough for that kind of pressure, and we never did anything about it. I never had any reason to think she cheated on me (she couldn't have, she was home for years, not working, I was making ends meet, we were living in a trailer, whatnot...) Fast forward 10 years. My income situation improved, and we finally moved into a house which we are currently living in, in a nice suburban setting, all that. We've been here about three years. Everything's cool, or so I thought. The place I used to work for shut down about five years ago, and I got laid off. No problem, I found a new job. I also found a new friend. Or so I thought, that sorry SOB. More on that later. I hadn't been driving at all for the last five years due to a DWI (I could have gotten my license back after a year, but insurance was so high I just had my wife drive me back and forth to work since she wasn't working anyway) and he would give me a ride home every night and we would sit around on the front porch, smoke, drink, and talk until he had to go home. We worked until about 3 or 4 am, and he would return home around six or seven in time for his wife to take their sole vehicle to work. Now, most of the time, my wife would be awake when I got home, but her self esteem issues (she is overweight, but very beautiful, hell, she was in a magazine and the people absolutely loved her) kept her from ever emerging from the bedroom. One day, after I had deemed this guy safe, I urged her to come on out and meet him, and hell, maybe he'd smoke a little weed with her and I. We used to smoke on occassion. Well, she did come out of her hiding place. It was then that I thought that maybe we could have our little fantasy thing come true after all these years. Well, it did. For several months, every couple of weeks or so, she would give us both oral sex. Everything was up front, there was never anything going on when I was not present, and the guy really was amicable, friendly, and hell, the guys at work actually thought he was kind of gay. Okay, finally I find out that there was a lot more to this than meets the eye. They had been practically in love with each other since the first time they saw each other. This sh.t had been going on for ten months, and I was either in denial or too stupid to realize what was going on. I got really pissed, things got bad, and I tried to kill myself. While all this was going on, the sh.t hit the fan and I called this guy's wife and told her everything. I admitted myself into a mental hospital (they call it a behavioral center) for two days, and got prescribed some damn good meds that are really doing me some good right now. In one week, I straightened myself out, got my drivers license back, bought a car, and became a shitload more independent. In the meantime, she had finally gotten a good job, which I thought was for her own good, but now I realize that it was probably because she just wanted to get away from me and start a life with this schmuck she just met. Anyway, after the proverbial sh.t hitting the fan, the guy ends up making up with his wife, (and I really think they did, I mean, after all, we were friends and I'm pretty sure the sleazy bastard isn't lying) totally upsetting (and pissing off) my wife because she says she was in love with him, and after about two or three weeks, my wife comes home from work one day, hugs me, and ASKS if I would like to stay married to her. I said yes. (I've been on psychiactric meds, and my temper has really calmed down...) I have no reason to think that they still talk, I think it's obvious that whatever they had is over, but now I'm beginning to think that my decision was wrong. Now I'm beginning to wonder if I can really ever trust her again, and I'm also beginning to wonder if she deserves me. I'm no prize, but I'm far from a goofball, I make decent money, I'm reliable, and I've stuck by her this far. The only problem is that she doesn't want to discuss this and she thinks that all she has to do is come home, hug me, tell me she wants to stay married and that's supposed to be it. I don't get hardly any affection from her, she doesn't really want to go to counseling, and all she does is sit in front of her computer and rarely talk to me. The thing is, we have now agreed to split the bills 50/50, and my new found wealth is totally awesome after scraping by for the last 7 years or so without her working. My pride tells me to shove her a.s out the door, my wallet tells me HURRAY and my heart still tells me that something might be left worth salvaging. I do feel as though I love her... What the hell do I do? Okay, I know that right now, waiting might be a good option, like maybe she could be my roomate, we had actually discussed that possibility, but now she seems to want to carry on the charade of a marriage. The money has increased by 50%, but what do I do? Any insight? She's tearing me apart.. She says that after all the years of my being a certain way, being ME, I guess, that she thinks of me as a friend. She tells me she loves me, but it's not really in a romantic way. She has agreed to stay married, but now I'm thinking that in due time she'll probably end up talking to this a.shole again and I'll be "a.s out" once again. Any input? -- candeh > Well, first let me say that this is my first post to this usenet > group, my first post in a long time to ANY usenet group for that [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > -- > candeh Crikey! I can't believe I read that whole thing. It was WAY too long to be a troll, right? Well I'm one for giving long responses. The fact of the matter is you ARE an idiot and anytime you invite someone else into your relationship, you get what you deserve. Sorry, that's just the way I look at it. I think you're too screwed up of an individual right now to even contemplate a relationship. I bet your therapist would say the same thing. Screw the money... get some self respect and start from there. --Brian > Now, most of the time, my wife would be awake when I got home, but >her self esteem issues (she is overweight, but very beautiful, hell, >she was in a magazine and the people absolutely loved her) kept her >from ever emerging from the bedroom. It seems to me that if you have someone who won't come out of the bedroom due to self esteem issues that there's a big problem *before* you get into any of the rest of this. > The only problem is that she >doesn't want to discuss this and she thinks that all she has to do is >come home, hug me, tell me she wants to stay married and that's >supposed to be it. I don't get hardly any affection from her, she >doesn't really want to go to counseling, and all she does is sit in >front of her computer and rarely talk to me. Well, not that I'm excusing anything that she (or you) did here, but I'm guessing that someone with major self-esteem issue probably *also* feels deeply ashamed about what she did, and she's hoping that by not talking to you about it and so forth that everything is just going to be ok. You, both of you, have a HUGE problem that's as much about communication as anything else, and whether she's crazy about it or not, you BOTH need counseling, both together and separately. Of course she doesn't want to go to counseling... she's ashamed, and she probably sees it as another blame/explanation/etc. thing. But if what you want is to save your marriage, you have to get her to do this, I think. If it's more fun to have money than a relationship, and if you'd both rather toss it all in rather than work through the difficult things, then there's not a lot to say. But you've been together for a long time, and I'd think long and hard before I did that. >> Now, most of the time, my wife would be awake when I got home, but >>her self esteem issues (she is overweight, but very beautiful, hell, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >bedroom due to self esteem issues that there's a big problem *before* >you get into any of the rest of this. Well, actually she just didn't want to come out if I had a friend over. She's now working, and getting out more. I do agree though that she does have major issues with that. >> The only problem is that she >>doesn't want to discuss this and she thinks that all she has to do is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >talking to you about it and so forth that everything is just going to >be ok. That sounds reasonable... > You, both of you, have a HUGE problem that's as much about >communication as anything else, and whether she's crazy about it or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >you want is to save your marriage, you have to get her to do this, I >think. I shall try harder on that. >If it's more fun to have money than a relationship, and if you'd both >rather toss it all in rather than work through the difficult things, >then there's not a lot to say. But you've been together for a long >time, and I'd think long and hard before I did that. Well, she IS still here, and the fact that she has gone and gotten a job is the reason we have money now. She doesn't want to leave, but she just doesn't love me like she used to. She says it was like that long before this guy was on the scene. I dunno.. > My pride tells me to shove her a.s out the > door, my wallet tells me HURRAY and my heart still tells me that > something might be left worth salvaging. I do feel as though I love > her... What the hell do I do? Go to marriagebuilders.com and read up on infidelity. >> My pride tells me to shove her a.s out the >> door, my wallet tells me HURRAY and my heart still tells me that >> something might be left worth salvaging. I do feel as though I love >> her... What the hell do I do? > >Go to marriagebuilders.com and read up on infidelity. Thanks! I did, and it has helped more than you know. I had looked at a lot of sites about helping marriages, but this one is really good. Thanks again. Things have kind of been looking up even since I posted the original message thanks to some of the things I learned there. > >> My pride tells me to shove her a.s out the > >> door, my wallet tells me HURRAY and my heart still tells me that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks again. Things have kind of been looking up even since I posted > the original message thanks to some of the things I learned there. Oh good. I hope things continue to improve for you. Hi Candeh: I don't know why I write such long dessertations, but I hope that you are ready for my reply and my thoughts. I do not ask people to agree with me, but I do encourage those who are honest with themselves to think about what I have to say herein. To begin with, let's talk about infidelity. The reason your wife was infidelious is due to the fact that she had the romantic transaction behind your back. Yes, absolutely, trust has been lost and definitely requires to be earned. I personally don't believe in divorce and am polyamorous (that is, never in the closet) by nature. Mankind is polyamorous by nature, but this is an issue of how we use our agency to choose. With the exception of adultery, as in this case, and a very, very, very few exceptions, I cannot conceive a marriage not being salvageable. Since you have chosen to extend your vows (that promise to love, cherish, etc., etc., etc. for better or for worse, etc., etc., etc.) to the extent of saving the marriage after adultery says a lot about you. You are an honorable man, but your drinking and temper makes you equally a scoundrel due to the fact that these are masks humans use to hide behind to avoid facing ACTION that is needed. Well, your heart and soul was chewed up and spit out! It's natural to hide behind the anger, especially since that is how we are "taught" to react to such things. I on the other hand have always reacted situations by finding something better. The drinking and temper are disguises mankind uses when he does not want to do what he knows he has to do. In your case, you are angry because you don't like the idea of dealing with the facts that say something about you. Your decision to stay married, therefore, was correct, but you need to find some resolution as regards the cheat. As Baha'u'llah said, "When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love." The cheat cannot be trusted as your wife cannot be, and the subject of trust in your story will never be mendable as long as you live. The challenge is "How do you remain honorable?" all things considered? Because I am polyamorous and am in an open marriage, it is easier for me to talk on this particular subject than most people I know. In your case, being the typical jealous American who follows the lead of white, male-dominated, Protestant-like, power-hungry macho fakes, the cause of the increase of the rise in divorce in the United States, this might be a real task. My recommendation is that you, your wife, the cheat, and the cheat's wife, start having dinner together and draw your boundaries amicably. Let's face another fact. Obviously, you enjoy the best of both worlds; otherwise, you would not have consented to a bi-sexual odyssey, so you and your wife both have human needs that prove that you are both polyamorous as well. It's important that the four of you discuss these facts and find out the reality of your individual situations and come to the reality that you would all do well in an open marriage based on the three rules that my wife and I live by as regards our marriage. 1. Three Rules to Our Open Marriage 1.1. Whomever we take as an extra-marital partner and we need to be tested for STDs every six months. 1.1.1. This also means that if sex is involved in the extra-marital affair, there is no sex until after six months from the first test. 1.2. Each extra-marital partner needs to make the marriage happy. 1.3. Each extra-marital partner needs to meet both married partners. 1.3.1. This also extends to any other partner(s) involved such as the affair's spouse(s). Now, there might also be a conflict with regard to your religious/spiritual beliefs, so take that into consideration as well. Which do you value and serve more? I am a Muslim, so the fact that I am so open-minded goes to show how libertarian I am in general and that I definitely had to choose between my Muslim customs and living my reality. I chose my living reality. I tell you, it was DIFFICULT of me. That is even an understatement. The four of you, especially the cheat's wife, need to make choices as well. My old friend, Terri Brussel-Gibbons who founded Live The Dream in Van Nuys, CA, is a great person to talk to about this subject. In fact, she and her staff are probably the most well versed people in regard to your situation than anyone I know that I recommend you call them at the Success Center at (818) 989-2923. Terri is a great public speaker and writer and has a reputation that stems several decades long (so it seems) in this and many other areas. One more recommendation, study up on polygamy, polyamory, open marriage, polygyny, polyandry, the nudist life style, and the psychology behind bi-sexuality. You will probably find your whole world looking different than ever and your whole life's philosophies thrown out the window. You will probably even become a Libertarian on that note, but politics aside, you will find yourself very libertarian in a safe, logical, and humane way. Good luck, and let me know how you are getting along by emailing me at polygyny@verizon.net. Nolan > Well, first let me say that this is my first post to this usenet > group, my first post in a long time to ANY usenet group for that [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > -- > candeh standing said > I have no reason to think that they still talk, I think it's obvious > that whatever they had is over, but now I'm beginning to think that my > decision was wrong. Now I'm beginning to wonder if I can really ever > trust her again, and I'm also beginning to wonder if she deserves me. Let me get this straight - you were just fine with her giving the guy bl.wj.bs in front of you, but now you don't trust her and thinks she does not deserve you? Casey >standing said > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >bl.wj.bs in front of you, but now you don't trust her and thinks she >does not deserve you? You did read all of it, right? It wasn't supposed to be like that. I thought- stupidly, I might add- that she could seperate sex from love. But I was wrong. She now hates the guy for being so wishy washy and going back to his wife like he did, and she really was hurt by it. But I stuck by her and even though she may not love me like she used to when she married me, she realizes that I'm not such a bad guy. > >standing said > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > You did read all of it, right? It wasn't supposed to be like that. I > thought- stupidly, I might add- that she could seperate sex from love. But I was wrong. IOW, you expected her to be able to think like the stereotypical GUY. It's not at all unusual for a woman to not be able to seperate sex from love. The women I've known who have been able to manage that seem (to me) to have gone through a lot of mental contortions to get to the point of seperating the two. > She now hates the guy for being so wishy washy and > going back to his wife like he did, and she really was hurt by it. But > I stuck by her and even though she may not love me like she used to > when she married me, she realizes that I'm not such a bad guy. But, IMO, you *are* the bad guy in this situation. You have a wife who apparently has self-esteem issues. She has been there with you and for you for years. Then you ask her to give *ANOTHER MAN* a bj in front of you, and then to do the same for you. In essence, you corrupted her, then you got upset that she'd been corrupted. Ever think that perhaps it's her self-esteem issues that keep her in a relationship with the man whom she allowed to bring her to that point? If you want to save your marriage, it's going to take a LOT of work. If it were me, you'd have to be doing a ton of work to show me that you'd never, ever, EVER ask something like that of me EVER again. The marital relationship has to be about trust. She has to be able to trust you to place her well-being above all else, and you must be able to trust her to put your well-being above all else. That doesn't mean doing whatever the other wishes, whenever the other wishes. It means truly, deeply caring about the well-being of the other person above and beyond caring about your own well-being. You didn't act in a trustworthy manner toward your wife. You're going to have to rebuild that trust. JMO, Kitten > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. I always find it strange that a person would get married, then invite another person into the sanctity of that marriage. > I had always had the fantasy of seeing her with another man I would say the operative word is 'fantasy'.. I would say your fantasy became a reality and the reality was not a fantasy. Temily > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. > > I always find it strange that a person would get married, then invite > another person into the sanctity of that marriage. It's not something I would do, but I don't see why it is _so_ strange. Many people think that sex is not a very important par of their marriage. If they thought that, and think sex with another person would be fun or interesting, why _not_ try such a thing? Of course one of the results is that they may have discovered that sex is more important than they thought... > > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Of course one of the results is that they may have discovered that > sex is more important than they thought... I've done it, but not while married. I wouldn't suggest it. While mine came and went without any uncomfortable aftermath, I've heard horror stories about how it's ruined relationships. --Brian >> > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed >> > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >mine came and went without any uncomfortable aftermath, I've heard >horror stories about how it's ruined relationships. Ours is still holding on, we tell each other we love each other, but we have a long way to go. It's hard for me to trust her now, but she says she's pretty much ruined as far as ever truly being in love with anyone ever again. I guess I fall in there somewhere... >> > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed >> > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Of course one of the results is that they may have discovered that >sex is more important than they thought... Yeah, that and the fact that this guy was telling her everything she wanted to hear, building her up, trying to help her with her self esteem, and going behind my back and coming on to her big time, saying how him and his wife weren't getting along, he was so lonely, and how he just LOOOVED her. If I hadn't gotten medication I'd have probably kicked his sorry a.s by now. > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Temily I would bet that in the fantasy, she was doing things with another man but she was doing them to please YOU, and that made it a good fantasy for you. Now you discover that she has been doing things with another man to please HIM, and that changes it a bit doesn't it? > > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for you. Now you discover that she has been doing things with another > man to please HIM, and that changes it a bit doesn't it? Maybe she was trying to please herself? > > > > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > > > > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Maybe she was trying to please herself? With the self-esteem issues he says she has??? IME, not likely. KItten >> Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed >> the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I would say your fantasy became a reality and the reality was not a >fantasy. Yes, I can certainly say from experience to refrain from this type of behavior in a relationship. > Well, first let me say that this is my first post to this usenet > group, my first post in a long time to ANY usenet group for that [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Early in our marriage, say, two or three years, we had discussed > the possibility of inviting another partner into our sex life. Where do we get all of these idiots? WARNING: More idiocy to follow! > I had > always had the fantasy of seeing her with another man, and actually, [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > -- > candeh >> Well, first let me say that this is my first post to this usenet >> group, my first post in a long time to ANY usenet group for that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Where do we get all of these idiots? WARNING: More idiocy to follow! You quoted my entire message, and that's all you had to say? Now I know why I stopped posting to usenet. Hellfire, my nym returned to default on all my replies to you guys' responses. Oh well, now you know who I am. That's ok. Screw it...  Signaturecandeh |
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