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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / December 2006Need help!
Hi everyone. I really need some neutral advice on my current situation. I have asked many friends and family on what they think and they pretty much always say the same things because they are somewhat biased since they are MY friends and family. Anyone who has anything helpful to say about this situation... I would greatly appreciate and take the advice. I am 22 yrs old and have a 8 mo. old little boy. I am trying to decide if I should work things out with the father of my son. He and I dated for 2 1/2 years, found out I was pregnant (accidental), decided to get married, and then realized we did not agree on several important marriage-related issues. He did not want me to be a stay-at home mother. I did. He did not want to share a checking account. I did. He even went so far as to say,"Uh, what if I want to be a stay-at-home father?!" He thought I just wanted to hang out at home & take the easy way out. He was very greedy about everything, but he thought I was just being stubborn. We decided to call off the wedding. I moved out of the house he and I lived in and moved home with my mother. I had my baby 5 months later. Eric (the father) has always been there for the baby & loves him to death. He is a great father. Eric and I have been dating off and on since we got unengaged. About 4 months ago we had a pretty major argument about money and I called things off for good. I stated dating someone else. This man was everything that Eric had not been. He was very unselfish, loving, genuine, a good Christian man, and he treated me like a queen. I was falling for him quickly. At this same time, Eric was begging me back. He couldn't stand it that I was dating someone else. I was lying to him at first about dating this other man, but eventually it came out. It drove Eric insane. He started sending the man crazy messages and everything trying to keep him away from me. Eric was telling me that he would do anything to have me back and out family back together. He said he wanted me to be a a stay-at-home mother. He said he would be more actively involved in my life. He started sending me sweet little text messages & e-mails randomly. He asked me to at least give it one last try for our son & then if we didn't work out, at least we could tell him in the future that we tried & it just didn't work. I decided to give it the one last try. I broke things off with the man I was seeing that I had been falling for, which was extremely hard. I went to Eric and told him was could try. I moved back in with him and I thought he was going to be wonderful. He was great to my face, but behind my back he was sending hateful messages to the other man & sending messages to people I know trying to dig up info on me and this man. He questioned me all the time about what me and this guy did, if we had been intimately involved, etc, etc.... Obviously I was not happy like this. I eventually left again. I decided to not date for a while & I decided to get my own apartment, which I am moving into in about a week. Christmas was a smack in the face of reality. Eric and I will be "sharing" our son on Christmas for every year to come. Next year, I will not have him on New Years Eve or Christmas morning. I cannot bear to live like that. I guess it boils down to this: Eric and I get along fine w/o all the BS we've been through lately. In the time we dated, we rarely fought. If we did, it was over minor problems. I feel like there may be hope for us if we could get past all these issues and we could both be with our son all the time. If he could get over the other guy I was seeing and not let that drive him crazy & if he could straighten his life up and live a Christian life like I am trying to do right now, then I think we could maybe make it work. I always thought there may be someone better for me out there. I always felt like someone could stimulate me more and I could be a better man than Eric is. Maybe there is. Who knows? So, should I try to work things out with him,get married and have our family together? I know there will be so many issues in the future if we don't try to keep our family together- like Eric dating someone else and eventually getting married, me doing the same, step-parents that our son may not like, jealousy between Eric and I with out new partners and all these icky things that no one ever wants. I can easily see Eric and I getting married and living a normal family life together in our house, which we already have. I can't honestly say that I would be completely fulfilled with that life with him. Should I hold out & see if there is someone else that may be "the one" for me that I don't have to question being with? and what if there is no one out there for me and I have to raise my son alone, (which is an insanely difficult task)? then I may regret not staying with Eric and marrying him if he has moved on. Any advice? Many thanks in advance. :) >Should I hold out & see if there is someone else that may be "the one" >for me that I don't have to question being with? > >and what if there is no one out there for me and I have to raise my son >alone, (which is an insanely difficult task)? then I may regret not >staying with Eric and marrying him if he has moved on. There is no such thing as the one who you won't have to question being with. Every person comes with flaws and problems and things that are not exactly what you would like. Having a partner means accepting compromise, accepting that people are not perfect, and choosing to love them anyway. Whether you stay with Eric or not, you have to make ONE choice and stay with it. No one can tell you whether staying with him is the right thing to do or not, but I can tell you that the absolute wrong thing to do would be to stay with him but spend all your time thinking, "well, maybe if I had <whatever>, things would be better..." That's a sure recipe for misery. If you don't stay with him, you'll have to deal with sharing your son with him, and with his erratic jealous behavior. However, it also sound like if you DO stay with him, you'll have to deal with his jealous, erratic behavior. And you will also have to deal with the fact that you have to learn to make joint decisions about things like whether you will stay at home, etc. So, either way, a wise place to start would be by considering some kind of counseling that would help you two deal with communicating better and so forth. This might give you a better idea of whether or not the relationship might work out... and you really have nothing to lose; at worst, it would be likely to make both of you better parents. shau...@yahoo.com wrote: > Hi everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > Any advice? Many thanks in advance. :) I don't think there is anyone who can really answer your question. There is no way to know whether there is someone "better" out there for you. When we choose someone to marry, we never get a perfect match. Marriage involves a certain amount of tolerance of things you don't necessarily like about your partner. But none of us are perfect, so our partners have to tolerate our faults too. I think everyone who is married has experienced doubts about their marriage. You meet someone to whom you are attracted, and you wonder what it might be like to be married to them. The problem is, you know your partner very very well and you see all their faults. But you only know that outside person superficially. So it is very easy to think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. In your case, you know Eric very well, so you know all his faults. The other man you dated for a few months, so you don't know him as well. I think it is pretty certain that he has some faults that you would have discovered had you known him longer. I have been married for 25 years now, and your description of your arguments with Eric sound like totally normal married life to me. Most couples argue about finances. That is probably the number one thing that married couples fight about. I think no matter who you marry, you can expect to fight about things like this. But fighting is not necessarily a bad thing. Fighting all the time about almost everything, now that would be bad. But on the other hand, you can't expect to live with someone day in and day out and not have a certain amount of disagreement. I think you went from dating Eric to living with him, and that is a big change. It is much easier to have a dating relationship than a living-together relationship. I think as far as fighting is concerned, you need to try to have productive fights where you come to some conclusion you can both live with. That way the fight can be a positive thing because it helps you to arrange your life in ways you can both accept. Going back to your question, I think the question is this: would you have married Eric if you hadn't gotten pregnant? Because I don't think you should marry him if you don't love him. You shouldn't marry him just because he is the father of your child. You want your child to grow up in a household with parents that love each other. At the same time, you do recognize that things are going to be more complicated if you marry someone else. But I don't think you should marry Eric just to avoid that complication. There are lots of divorced parents out there who work these things out and handle the complications. It happens all the time. I'm sorry I can't give you some formula to give you the right answer on this. I think it's great that you are a Christian, and maybe you might want to talk to your paster to get some guidance about this. Praying about it certainly wouldn't hurt either. Good luck to you, and may God bless you. Thank you for your response (and thanks to everyone else.) I agree that we definately need counseling. That is another thing that bothers me about him. A while back, I set up counseling through my church for us. It was sort of a pre-marital counseling, but I quickly let the counselor know that we were there for pre pre marital counseling, basically relationship counseling to see if we would want to get married. It was a pretty successful meeting. The man told us we would need to call back and get things set up with the person that would be our counselor from that time on. Eric took the business card like he was going to be the man and go through with setting it up (which is unlike him.) He's typically very passive. What did he do? He never called. Nothing was every set up. This was a big sign to me that he was not into trying to resolve our problems in our relationship like I was. I have always wanted a man to take charge, especially in the family. I want the man to be the leader. I don't think Eric has what it takes to be this type of man. He is passive, avoids conflict, and isn't a great communicator. With all the negative things I have said about him, I feel like I need to bring to light some of his positive traits so that he doesn't look like a monster. He is very goal-oriented, down-to-earth, smart, and successful in his career. He makes goals and meets them. I have always loved that in him. When I met him, he was a senior in college and he told me that before he met me, he didn't really care that he was about to graduate, but since he had met me, he was excited to graduate and start a family with me and be a great supporter. He is also a fantastic father. I know that no matter what happens between him and I, he will always be there for our son. He will not be a deadbeat dad, like he and I both had. I guess one thing that I didn't mention is love. I don't know that I'm still in love with him. I love him as a person and as my son's father, however I don't know if I could fall back "in love" with him. There were sparks between him and I at the very beginning when we met, then I guess things died down as they do in all relationships. We got into several ruts, however we never completely broke up until we got unengaged. I don't know if I am just completely out the real world spectrum or what, but in my mind, I envision that when two people are meant to be, they don't have to question if each other is the "right one." Sure, they will have flaws, but when someone you absolutely love has flaws, aren't they somewhat cute? Should you try to make things work with someone who's personality isn't exactly what you expected to end up with? Like the whole "head of the house" thing I mentioned, would it ever work if he can't be that? Or is that something I am being unrealistic about? > shau...@yahoo.com wrote: > > Hi everyone. [quoted text clipped - 149 lines] > about it certainly wouldn't hurt either. Good luck to you, and may God > bless you. > I don't know if I am just completely out the real world spectrum or > what, but in my mind, I envision that when two people are meant to be, > they don't have to question if each other is the "right one." Sure, > they will have flaws, but when someone you absolutely love has flaws, > aren't they somewhat cute? Goodness, no. Flaws are irritating, annoying, and something you have to remind yourself every day that you have to accept them because you have some yourself that he has to accept, too. Flaws are not cute at all! -- Anita -- > I have always wanted a man to take charge, especially in the family. I > want the man to be the leader. I don't think Eric has what it takes to > be this type of man. He is passive, avoids conflict, and isn't a great > communicator. Whatever type he is before marriage, that is what he will be and more after marriage. -- Anita -- > Whatever type he is before marriage, that is > what he will be and more after marriage. > > -- Anita -- I know & this is what scares me. I see him growing into a grumpy old man like his grandfather. I am and have been trying my very best to see that that doesn't happen. I just don't know if that's something you can change in a person or if they are destined to be that way if it is in their heart. There are many things that I wish were different about him. But, maybe I will always feel that way with everyone I date.? I feel like if I am going to wish things were different about every person I date, I might as well go ahead and stick with Eric since he is the father of my child > He's typically very passive. What did he do? He never >called. Nothing was every set up. This was a big sign to me that he was >not into trying to resolve our problems in our relationship like I was. But maybe that's not what it meant. It's pretty dangerous to interpret other people's actions by thinking about them in terms of what it would mean if we did it. That is, sure, for me, if I didn't make the appointment, it would mean that I wasn't serious. For him... well, who knows? It might mean that he forgot. That he was afraid of doing it. That he thought you were going to make the appointment, Whatever. And when you didn't follow up, either, maybe he thought you weren't serious. >I have always wanted a man to take charge, especially in the family. I >want the man to be the leader. I don't think Eric has what it takes to >be this type of man. He is passive, avoids conflict, and isn't a great >communicator. Be careful what you ask for... you may get it. If you want a man to take charge, then you have to accept it when he says, sorry, you have to work, too. And other things like that. I suspect that (like a lot of us, me kind of included) you'd like someone to take charge when you want him to and to do things your way when you want that. And, well, it's probably never going to happen, so maybe this would be a good thing to think twice about. On the other hand... you can learn to communicate, and I don't see avoiding conflict as necessarily a bad thing (certainly I'd prefer it to someone who seeks conflict), but some people ARE truly passive. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but he's truly passive, and if that's going to be something that drives you crazy in the long run... that's something to think seriously about as well. >With all the negative things I have said about him, I feel like I need >to bring to light some of his positive traits so that he doesn't look [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >always be there for our son. He will not be a deadbeat dad, like he and >I both had. These are VERY good things. >I guess one thing that I didn't mention is love. I don't know that I'm >still in love with him. I love him as a person and as my son's father, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >they will have flaws, but when someone you absolutely love has flaws, >aren't they somewhat cute? Um, no. Not after a while. You can learn to look at flaws with love and tolerance, but even if you love someone, there are a lot of really un-cute things that other people do. I hate to say it, but you really are living in a fantasy world if you think that you are going to find someone who is, without question, the "right one", and stays that way after the flush of infatuation is past. Which doesn't necessarily mean that Eric is right for you; it just means that this ideal thing is not ever likely to happen. It's not the real world. >Should you try to make things work with someone who's personality isn't >exactly what you expected to end up with? Like the whole "head of the >house" thing I mentioned, would it ever work if he can't be that? Or is >that something I am being unrealistic about? I think that you need to think about what the head of the house thing really means to you, and you need to talk to him about it, and you need to go back to that counselor. Make the appointment yourself. > I think that you need to think about what the head of the house thing > really means to you, and you need to talk to him about it, and you > need to go back to that counselor. Make the appointment yourself. I think you're right. I have mentioned this to him also. I have told him that if he's serious about us working things out and being a family, we REALLY need to seek professional help- someone who knows what they are talking about. (not a friend of mine, of his, a mother, etc..) He says that he is willing to go through counseling. Maybe this time he will stick with it and take something from it and maybe it will show us that there is a way to work through things. Do you really need a partner to raise a child, it is most likely to end up with two children and divorce than getting him to change. The pattern he has show you is only the beginning and is most likely that it is going to be worse. Raising a child alone is not difficult just require a lot of work. Life is not easy and seem to me that you want the easy way out. You got to see life as a whole and not a temporary fix, How far you wanted to go before your child appear, a doctor, nurse, receptionist, or a cleaning lady. not that one position is better than other, but everybody has is place, are you looking for yours or your child. > > I think that you need to think about what the head of the house thing > > really means to you, and you need to talk to him about it, and you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > time he will stick with it and take something from it and maybe it will > show us that there is a way to work through things. > I have always wanted a man to take charge, especially in the family. > I want the man to be the leader. I don't think Eric has what it takes > to be this type of man. He is passive, avoids conflict, and isn't a great > communicator. First, babycakes, love is something that a person decides to do, notwithstanding their partner's faults, uncouth behavior, and poor taste, becuz, among other things, no one's perfect, including you, and his /poor taste/ resulted in him choosing you. Second, the guy you describe prob'ly applied to a great many of us. Have you ever met a guy who likes to talk about his "feelings" as if he had any? All guys are trained from birth to internalize stuff. Its why we're so much better at having heart-attacks than serious discussions. We're the stable, dependable, average joes, who most just do what we have to do to get by. Tthe type of man you want is a fantasy that exists only in fairy-tales and James Bond movies. Have you ever done an internet search, only to find that no results meet your criteria? You could spend a lifetime looking for Mr. Goodbar (find the movie), and never find one. =R= > I have always wanted a man to take charge, especially in the family. I > want the man to be the leader. I don't think Eric has what it takes to > be this type of man. He is passive, avoids conflict, and isn't a great > communicator. This is not the 1950s. You are describing a culture that doesn't exist anymore, and frankly I think we are all better off that it doesn't. You and your partner should be equals in running your household. And do you really think you want him to be telling you what to do all the time?? It seems to me that you disagree with many things he says. Are you saying you want to meekly say "Yes sir" to him?? You are 22 years old, and I think at that age it is not always easy to know what you really want in life. I think you are still in the process of discovering who you are. There is nothing wrong with that. It is absolutely normal. But I think you need to examine some of your assumptions about what you really want. It is dangerous to make a major decision like who you are going to marry based on misconceptions about how you want things to be. You may wind up with what you think you want, only to discover that it isn't what you want at all. I think you should really do some soul-searching to try to figure out what you really want, because what you describe sounds like a romantic fantasy that would be really awful in real life. > Hi everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > alone, (which is an insanely difficult task)? then I may regret not > staying with Eric and marrying him if he has moved on. I agree raising a child alone is difficult. It is certainly not something I would want to do, though I would if I had to. Your friend Eric has demonstrated none of the qualities that I'd look for in a mate. He has demonstrated jealousy, selfishness, and inconsistency. In addition, his behavior to your new boyfriend verges on the scary. I'm not trying to be mean, but when I read through your post, if I subtract the presence of your child, these stories sound like high school antics to me. This tends to make me feel like neither you nor Eric are mature enough to get married (it is unfortunate that not being mature enough to get married does not guarantee against getting pregnant). (And, by the way, it is perfectly reasonable for Eric to ask what if he wanted to be a stay-at-home-Dad. It is also perfectly reasonable for a man to want to marry someone who at least in the long term is going to be contributing to the household income.) In about 1 year you have -broken off an engagement -had a baby -almost fallen in love with someone else -gotten reinvolved with your old boyfriend. Too much too fast in my opinion. You need to slow down, think about what your future is going to be like and how you want to get there, and examine whether your strategies are effective. I would consider counseling too, as Nina suggested. (Also, as Nina said, there is no "the one." Every relationship involves accepting that the person you want comes with traits you might not have chosen, and learning to deal with those traits.) You may never find anyone "better" than Eric, but that doesn't matter if Eric is not very good, unless you think you are better off in a bad marriage than single (I wouldn't feel that way, but you may). But if (like me) you'd want to be married to someone who behaves responsibly, thinks about and plans for the future, is stable and dependable, then those are traits you should work on developing in yourself. >You may never find anyone "better" than Eric, but that doesn't matter >if Eric is not very good, unless you think you are better off in a bad [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >dependable, then those are traits you should work on developing in >yourself. And this is the best advice of all. It's so easy, when you're young, to be in a hurry to find the person you want to be with and to live happily ever after. So, instead of working on becoming the person we want to be, we work on finding the person we want to be with, and it's just the wrong way around. There's a lot of life ahead, and you don't need to be with someone else for every second of it. (Having said that, it is much harder when you add in raising a child alone. But it is still true that hurrying into something is not likely to help much in the short run, and is very likely to make things worse in the long run.) >>You may never find anyone "better" than Eric, but that doesn't matter >>if Eric is not very good, unless you think you are better off in a bad [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > likely to help much in the short run, and is very likely to make > things worse in the long run.) OP, this is very good advise. You are definately right in that I have had way too much happen in a year's time. I agree that I need to slow down & that's what I was in the midst of doing (getting my own apartment away from my mother's house) and getting my life back in order. When Christmas came around, I had to stop and re-evaluate the situation. I don't think I can live without seeing my son every Christmas morning. He should be there with my family. It just doesn't seem right. However, Eric will not budge on having him Christmas morning. The only solution is to be together. Now I am worried that if I take this time to myself and get myself in order to find that I really want to get my family back together that he will be moved on & won't want the same. Right now, he does want to work things out. > > Hi everyone. > > [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > dependable, then those are traits you should work on developing in > yourself. > You are definately right in that I have had way too much happen in a > year's time. I agree that I need to slow down & that's what I was in > the midst of doing (getting my own apartment away from my mother's > house) and getting my life back in order. When Christmas came around, I > had to stop and re-evaluate the situation. I don't think I can live > without seeing my son every Christmas morning. Yes, you can. It may be painful, but you'll have to learn traditions to cope with being one of two parents if you don't marry Eric. Millions of others have managed this, you will too. Probably even if you _do_ marry him, you'll have to learn when you get divorced, since it sounds to me like you don't love him, and he is more motivated by jealousy than by loving you and making a family. > He should be there with > my family. It just doesn't seem right. However, Eric will not budge on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > order to find that I really want to get my family back together that he > will be moved on & won't want the same. That's quite possible. If I were you, I'd have to take that risk though, as the alternative (marrying someone I wasn't dead sure I wanted to be with) would be unacceptable to me. > Right now, he does want to work > things out. But first he didn't, then (it seems out of jealousy) he did. Not much of a basis for a marriage there, IMO, though of course I could be wrong. I do think you have some unrealistic goals. It seems like one of the things you want out of a relationship is to be taken care of. This doesn't seem like this is who Eric is, and I think it is going to be hard to find someone else who wants to take care of both you and your child. Also, as far as your pre-pre-marriage counseling, if Eric didn't make the next appointment _you_ should have. Yeah, it would have been nice if he did, but it is no use blaming him for something you _both_ failed to do. Also (not related to your predicament), the tradition on this group is to post your response _below_ the text you are responding to (as I just did). It makes it easier to read if everyone is doing the same thing. Also (not related to your predicament), the tradition on this group is to post your response _below_ the text you are responding to (as I just did). It makes it easier to read if everyone is doing the same thing. Whoopsie! Sorry about that. :P > > You are definately right in that I have had way too much happen in a > > year's time. I agree that I need to slow down & that's what I was in [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > just did). It makes it easier to read if everyone is doing the same > thing. Also (not related to your predicament), the tradition on this group is to post your response _below_ the text you are responding to (as I just did). It makes it easier to read if everyone is doing the same thing. Whoopsie! Sorry about that. :P > > You are definately right in that I have had way too much happen in a > > year's time. I agree that I need to slow down & that's what I was in [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > just did). It makes it easier to read if everyone is doing the same > thing. > Now I am worried that if I take this time to myself and get myself in > order to find that I really want to get my family back together that he > will be moved on & won't want the same. Right now, he does want to work > things out. If he does not want to work things out in one year, he's not the right person to get married to. If this is a family that he will fight for, he will keep fighting for it. -- Anita -- > I'm not trying to be mean, but when I read through your post, if I > subtract the presence of your child, these stories sound like high > school antics to me. This tends to make me feel like neither you nor > Eric are mature enough to get married (it is unfortunate that not > being mature enough to get married does not guarantee against getting > pregnant). Excellent observation... :) and I agree. And, from what I read, she's just as much at fault as he is but for different reasons. She's a mother that needs to take charge over her life to insure a stable environment for her child. She should establish a life on her own, no matter how difficult, and put dating on hold until such time as her life has as semblance of stability and her judgment improves.  SignatureSD:) > Hi everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > life together in our house, which we already have. I can't honestly say > that I would be completely fulfilled with that life with him. Don't marry this person unless you can wholeheartedly say that you want to spend the rest of you life with him. > Hi everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > Any advice? Many thanks in advance. :) Kudos on the amazingly well written and thoughtfully considered post! You ask a number of very perceptive questions, but raise even more subtle issues along the way. I will try to *respond* to most of them, and do so briefly. However, you will eventually have to supply your own answers. 1. Marry Eric - son's dad ? That depends on what your priorities and objectives are. If you and Eric have common goals, play/work well together, are willing to both support one another and actually *learn* to love one another - then yes marrying Eric is probably the best decision. If either of you can't or won't do those things then move on. 2. Step-parents ? Step-parents often have problems with their step-children. Usually loyalty to the spouse, or biological parents create result in conflicts. However, younger children often adapt well to step-parents. 3. Visitation football. Indeed, this often does cause problems for everyone concerned, unless you live in the same tribe, and live in neighboring huts. The alternatives are worse - waiving parental rights, and children feel abandoned and worthless. Anger and misconduct often ensue. 4. Dating "Falling for" and "in love" = DANGER! Hormones and neuro-chemicals are in your bloodstream, and you aren't thinking straight any more. Do not plan your future when under the influence of infatuation (in love). Additionally, you never really know the person you are dating until a major problem occurs. Nice/best behavior before marriage is sales and marketing effort to get you to buy what you aren't shown. Problems tend to strip off the masks and reveal the real person behind them. 5. Your children It is all fine and good that you should want to get/stay married "for the sake of the children." Good marriages serve to provide for and nurture children in a way that single parenthood simply cannot match. However, one of the important functions of parenthood is to teach children how to be competent, happy, socially success adults. If your marriage doesn't provide these lessons for your children, then either improve your current marriage so that it does, or find one which will. (This is *much* easier said than done!) There. You have love, marriage and parenthood in a nutshell. Best of luck in figuring out what you want to do with your life and this "information". Best regards, Larry G. LAMPS www.loveandmarriageseminars.com SignatureYour mind is a terrible thing to waste - TURN OFF YOUR TV! > There. You have love, marriage and parenthood in a nutshell. > Best of luck in figuring out what you want to do with your > life and this "information". Thank you so much for taking the time to give me this great advice. These are all things I must ponder over, and you're right, only I can answer my questions. Too often I wish a piece of paper would fly out of the air, land on my head, and tell me what to do. I have to learn to trust my own decisions. He does not sound like a person who cares about women and their feelings. And, he probably feels everything is OK with his behavior, not likely to change. Also, a man can have a lot of fun with his child, but not really be responsible when it comes to bringing up the child in a day to day kind of relationship. |
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