Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / December 2006

Is this a troll post?

On the off chance that it isn't, I'd answer that 1.) there's no global
"women" who all want the same thing and 2.) there are going to be a lot more
women who disagree with your wife than agree, so your wife is actually
reducing the pool of women who'd be interested in your son when he grows up.
Most of us prefer men that can pick up their own socks and do the dishes.
I've got a strong preference for men who can cook, myself -

I'm afraid that your wife is wrong. Nowhere does it say that women
should serve men. The passage in Ephesians 5 which is normally used to
make women subject to men is actually preceded by a command in 5:21
which tells men and women to be subject to each other. Also, even if it
was trying to teach subjection (which it is not) it is quite
specifically referring to husbands and wives and not women and men.
Paul in Galatians 3:28 says that in the Christian era there is no
longer to be a distinction between male and female but that both are
now equal in Christ. In these modern times your wife is making your son
into a lazy kid who will struggle to find a wife if he keeps on
receiving teaching that encourages him to be lazy and treat women as
slaves. Get his hands into the wash basin before its too late!

William Milton
www.themarriagesite.com

Christians amuse me. They are as remote to me as martians. They believe
the most amazing things.
Is it a lot more likely that your son will come to believe that food
magically appears and that the subsequent mess, in a similar
inexplicable magical occurance - suddenly disappears?
What if there are no women about to perform the magic? Will your son
starve?

How magnanimous of your daughter to accept unquestionably her servile
status!

;D

I think it admirable that you indulge your wife's strange cult beliefs.
Some, like Sam Harris, urge us to be more pro-active with them. I think
we should be tolerant - but take all the sharp objects away from them
and tell them sternly, but lovingly; "No, you don't get to blow up the
world so Jesus will come back."

So while you're right to be concerned about what this will do to your son,
you shouldn't ignore the effect on your daughter. Is your wife one of those
who don't believe it is necessary to educate girls?  Will your daughter be
encouraged to excell in school and to go to college as much as your son
will?  Do you want your daughter to grow up thinking that her lot in life is
limited to serving men?  Do you want your daughter to marry the kind of man
who is looking for a servant?

OK, I'll bite.  So you are afraid that your son will someday get
involved with a woman.  And let's say they start to get serious.  Then
one night this woman has your son over for dinner, and after dinner
your son offers to do the dishes.  So you think this woman is going to
think to herself, "Gee, I really thought this was the guy for me, but
he's offered to do the dishes.  Darn, now I can't marry him!"

If you think this is plausible, I just want to know what color is the
sky on your planet?

There is a lot of evidence that all people generally seek to
recreate the circumstances of their childhood within the
framework of their marriage / adult family.  So, in a sense,
your wife is right - your son would be less likely to find a
mate who is significantly like his mother.

The problem is that such women are rapidly disappearing from
the ranks of the available - not because men are quick to
snatch them up, but because fewer women are opting for that
tradition of gender role assignment.  Whether this is a
permanent reduction in numbers, or is a reaction to "fads" in
social thinking (peer-based marriages is gaining momentum)
is subject to debate.

So, while his mother is grooming your son to look for and
expect a woman like her, she may also be handicapping him
from dealing effectively with the real world outside your
wife's limiting vision.  The religious gender rules your
wife selectively enforces, were written for societies in
existance thousands of years ago.  They are not necessarily
appropriate to the 21st century, or even reflect the
teachings of Jesus.

"What women want" is also subject to debate, perception and
possibly change.  More than likely, some women want one set
of things, others want something else.  And like a number of
men, quite a few women simply don't know what they want,
although they are frequently told what they *should* want.

COMMENT: In your post, I got the impression that something
is amiss in your family, and that other than a certain
amount of religious zeal, neither you nor I can quite
articulate just what the real problem is.

(I may be projecting my own dislike of religious piety
and zeal.)  However, if you are uneasy with policies your
wife is implementing, and the possibly negative effects
she is having on your children, you may wish to consult
with a family counselor on your own.  An objective
opinion form an informed professional might give you
insight into your family's dynamics and potential
future.

Best regards,
Larry G.
LAMPS
www.loveandmarriageseminars.com

Good one.
".....trollin, trollin, trollin down the r--i-v-e-r....."

Five-year-olds should have chores, but I'm not sure washing dishes
should be one of those chores. Wouldn't your son have to stand in a
chair just to reach the top of the sink? There are often sharp objects
hiding in the dish water.

As for any biblical reasons..., hogwash.

BRAINWASH ALERT for your children, and for you.

_______________________________
"Some people learn something new
every day, others just get 24 hours older."

It's probably time for you to buy a Bible.

Good luck ... God speed.

Tab

Your wife's childhood orientation and biblical interpretation has much
more to do this issue then what the bible actually says.

I am catholic; attended catholic schools, and raised in a traditional
Midwest euro family by strong women, and a sister four years younger.  I
was taught as a child (minor chores started around 5yrs) how clean
dishes, cook, even iron after doing my outside chores on the farm.
Essecentally, I did double duty.  When my sister became of age, she was
taught home related chores, however she never had physical chores
outside the house.

It's likely your wife has misinterpreted intent behind some of the
passages referencing serving men, maybe even confused some of her own
childhood parental observations with bible passages.

A  five year old child will learn from his parents behavior and actions,
or lack there of.  So, you and your wife NOT doing the dishes is the
better example of what he sees.

Again, she's misinterpreting biblical intent.  In tomorrows day and age,
you sons self-esteem and confidence with play a much greater roll then
distorted gender rules.

As I said, emotionally healthy women want the same in men, topped with
confidence.