 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2007TMI - Why men don't want sex
I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is important so...... I came across an article that listed, by men, a few reasons why they might not be interested in sex. The first - rejection, lack of desire by wife, total indifference. If the wife just wants you to get it over with, it can be difficult to find the desire to make it happen. Second - The couple had great sex for many years, the children are grown, and either partner feels they no longer feel the need for sex. (This sounds kind of like differing libidos to me). Third - Too much work. Men just want to cum, sometimes. It takes 2 min. by themselves, and more like 45 min. with wife, because they want to make sure she enjoys it too. Not wanting to always have to return the favor. On the other hand here was one reason why women don't want to have sex: Boredom. It is like a repetitive chore. Working, caring for the kids, housework, why spend the energy that isn't there, when it is going to feel exactly the same way as before. No passion or excitement. I know there are more, medical reasons for instance, but I wasn't going in the direction of inability, just no desire to. My take is you need to mix it up. Give some, take some, and share some. Experiment on occasion. Rain checks are also good to let partner know that it isn't that you don't want them, but that you are just not in the moment mentally or physically. If you both have a different sex drive, self help is the way to go. One more thing. Hygiene. Occasional *dirty* spontaneous sex can be awesome, but for the most part, brush teeth, and shower regularly! Vickie (taking a stab at being a sex-pert) Oh, and info was obtained by Dr. Helen. >I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is important > so...... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Vickie (taking a stab at being a sex-pert) Oh, and info was obtained > by Dr. Helen. I don't disagree with anything you have said. In addition, the issue of sexual desire cannot be looked at in relationship isolation. I am currently madly in love with my husband. The fact that our closeness is fantastic make the environment for sex also very good. This sentement is attrubuted often to women. But it is true to men too, in the macro picture. When things are running happily and smoothly, I just think everyone is much more likely to hit the hay with enthusiasm. And I don't mean sleeping! > I don't disagree with anything you have said. In addition, the issue of > sexual desire cannot be looked at in relationship isolation. I am currently [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The second sentence there, sexual desire cannot be looked at......meaning, if things are going bad in other areas of the relationship it can make it difficult to want sex with partner? If that is what you mean, I agree. Although for some reason, it has changed for *me*, up to a point. Vickie >> I don't disagree with anything you have said. In addition, the issue of >> sexual desire cannot be looked at in relationship isolation. I am [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > at......meaning, if things are going bad in other areas of the > relationship it can make it difficult to want sex with partner? Yep. > If that is what you mean, I agree. Although for some reason, it has > changed for *me*, up to a point. > > Vickie Yeah but we woman-folk hit a cerain age, and BAM. We gotta have it. (That is completely tongue in cheek. I have no idea if it is true. Studies seems to suggest that the women peek later than men thing is nonsense.) > >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > completely tongue in cheek. I have no idea if it is true. Studies seems to > suggest that the women peek later than men thing is nonsense.)- Hide quoted text - Yep. It's true. That's probably a big part of what's kept our marriage together during the difficulties we've been having. I've a friend who jokes about having gone without for a certain number of years; I can't stand to go more than a few *days*. I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of YEARS. Kitten >> >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Kitten I think I would shoot myself. Toys are lovely, but they are not the real thing. > >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > I think I would shoot myself. Toys are lovely, but they are not the real > thing. The desire for sex is not same is among the couples, is that true.. anyone have studied in this direction? LD http://forums.familylobby.com (Your True Family Discussions) Stephanie remarked: > Yeah but we woman-folk hit a cerain age, > and BAM. We gotta have it. (That is > completely tongue in cheek. I have no > idea if it is true. Studies seems to > suggest that the women peek later than > men thing is nonsense.) I suspect this *BAM* things is actually something cultural-- the shift from the fairy tale desire for "pure love" loses power and all of a sudden the need to be seen as physically desirable kicks in. Of course some women will have done their level best to condition their husbands to NOT express any sexual interest... so the sudden shift leaves the described subset without a foundation. I would hope this is not more common...  SignatureJack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/ "Political correctness is an effort to abrogate the First Amendment under the assumption that there exists a right to not be offended and that it has priority." - the Toberman > Stephanie remarked: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > power and all of a sudden the need to be > seen as physically desirable kicks in. I don't know. That might be true for some women or play a part, but for me, well I have always had a fairly strong libido, now it is more like a need and want. It might be about really learning about your body as you get older. Instead of concentrating on what is making your man happy, you finally realize you want to make yourself happy sexually. That you are not only equal in getting enjoyment out of sex, but that you can enjoy it and get out of it what you want. > Of course some women will have done their > level best to condition their husbands to > NOT express any sexual interest... so the > sudden shift leaves the described subset > without a foundation. If that is the case, practice makes perfect! > I would hope this is not more common... Me too. Vickie >> Stephanie remarked: >>> Yeah but we woman-folk hit a cerain age, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > man happy, you finally realize you want > to make yourself happy sexually. Please realize that I have limited experience with women and only "know" (well, have any real observation time on) _one_ woman... who is, to my myopic eyes, still trying to figure out what "role" she is supposed to play in life. The key for many people and their comfort with sexuality, especially their own, can be summed up as: "Respectability is inversely proportional to Sexuality." In the US, the "American Puritan Ethic" tends to look down on people-- men _and_ women-- who are sexually active, most especially in any field pertaining to socially responsible roles (i.e. "politics") even though some gaffes tend to be less touchy than others after it gets the name recognized (what hurt Clinton helped him get free publicity). So a lot of this seems to be taught-- both through above-board education but also by "romantic fairy tales" children are exposed to which leads to far more insidious forms of unreal expectations than porn does. Some things-- look at Communism, as a for instance-- ignored basic human drives. A lot of the anti-sexual programming pushed in the middle of the 20th century were at least as devoid as handling reality. > That > you are not only equal in getting > enjoyment out of sex, but that you can > enjoy it and get out of it what you want. I suspect there are many who cannot cope with the guilt in enjoying a part of their body that the Devil managed to sneak in onto God's grand design. :-) >> Of course some women will have done their >> level best to condition their husbands to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If that is the case, practice makes perfect! The problem is that a husband may have been conditioned to hide all evidence of seeing his wife as a sexual being... and the sudden shift pisses him off given the amount of his time that was wasted. Personally, I am less than patient-- but, then, my wife _still_ does not see her long (10 months, now) chronic yeast infection as a sign that her blood glucose had NOT been managed well-- and she doesn't want to test it, either. I also lack sympathy for such a chronic condition because it is, in effect, self-inflicted... and seems like she does not _want_ to recover function and lose her weight. Granted, the itchiness of the yeast does tend to cause her to have sexual thoughts far more often than ever before. I also saw how she idolized her great aunt as a "Lady"... and, even though the woman had been married for 50 or so year, my wife doesn't connect that a "Lady" can be sexually active. It's all in the roles... and, if the roles shift suddenly because of an agonizing reappraisal of one's life, those around one will not know whether to trust that the new mindset is "for real". I _really_ doubt that my observations would hold up for more than a tiny fraction of women and marriages... and, in a way, I kind of hope that I'm way off base given my lack of experience. Don't forget that the suppression of a woman's sexuality _does_ mess up a man's view of himself... and, by the time any shift occurs in his wife, he's well into a large set of emotional land-mines his wife instilled. And, to my eye, the hell of it is that both parties have accumulated land-mines from being together! SignatureJack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/ "Political correctness is an effort to abrogate the First Amendment under the assumption that there exists a right to not be offended and that it has priority." - the Toberman > >> I suspect this *BAM* things is actually > >> something cultural-- the shift from the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > figure out what "role" she is supposed to > play in life. So noted. > The key for many people and their comfort > with sexuality, especially their own, can > be summed up as: > > "Respectability is inversely proportional to Sexuality." For some maybe. And for those, that is a sad state when in a loving relationship. > In the US, the "American Puritan Ethic" > tends to look down on people-- men _and_ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > recognized (what hurt Clinton helped him > get free publicity). Look down on men and women that are in steady loving relationships and/ or married, also? Socially responsible roles - if you keep it private - all is good. I would not pretend to think anyone in a socially responsible role does not have sex. Clinton, well, not a fan in a lot of aspects. Basically he cheated on his wife. That is a whole different ball of wax. Not at all pertaining to married men and women and their sexual endeavors together. > So a lot of this seems to be taught-- both > through above-board education but also by > "romantic fairy tales" children are exposed > to which leads to far more insidious forms > of unreal expectations than porn does. Maybe, but I think there is enough out there in the real world that while growing up you tend to out grow the fairy tale. Unless you are hidden away from the truth. > Some things-- look at Communism, as a for > instance-- ignored basic human drives. A > lot of the anti-sexual programming pushed > in the middle of the 20th century were at > least as devoid as handling reality. Hmm. OK. > > That > > you are not only equal in getting [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > body that the Devil managed to sneak in > onto God's grand design. :-) OH MY! The devil sneaked it in huh? This from your wife? Could you tell her we are not God. We are human and enjoy what we can. > >> Of course some women will have done their > >> level best to condition their husbands to > >> NOT express any sexual interest... so the > >> sudden shift leaves the described subset > >> without a foundation. Sure. > > If that is the case, practice makes perfect! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shift pisses him off given the amount of his > time that was wasted. Yes. And those feelings are warranted. But can he move past the anger at some point, know people grow and discover new things and be thankful for the wonderful shift happening? I hope so. > Personally, I am less than patient-- but, > then, my wife _still_ does not see her long [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > not _want_ to recover function and lose her > weight. Again, yikes! I don't know the ins and outs of yeast infections. I have had many, a lot of times before my period. When I was at my thinnest - 115lbs - I still got them! There are many things on the market for them. She needs to get busy! If the over the counter stuff is not working - she had better high-tail it over to the docs. It could be something else. A lot of women do suffer from chronic yeast infections and it is most uncomfortable. > Granted, the itchiness of the yeast does > tend to cause her to have sexual thoughts > far more often than ever before. So get read of the infection. And help her to feel a pseudo itchiness to get the ball rolling. > I also saw how she idolized her great aunt > as a "Lady"... and, even though the woman > had been married for 50 or so year, my wife > doesn't connect that a "Lady" can be sexually > active. Buy her a regency romance novel. > It's all in the roles... and, if the roles > shift suddenly because of an agonizing > reappraisal of one's life, those around one > will not know whether to trust that the new > mindset is "for real". Oh yes, I agree. The waiting for the other shoe to drop. The - can I let go and trust this is not for a short period of time. This is extremely hard. I am doing it in my relationship now at times, (not about sex though). The thing is, you got to take the gamble. It could turn out to be *real* and if you don't let go of resentments, then once again you are wasting valuable time with your partner. And if it turns out to be a passing fancy, well, then you had those wonderful moments together, and can work at achieving them again. > I _really_ doubt that my observations would > hold up for more than a tiny fraction of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > parties have accumulated land-mines from > being together! I don't know. Your story could be common with a lot of people. For the rest - marriage is work, hard, hard work. You got to take those land-mines one step at a time. Prioritize them with your SO and start chipping away. Vickie >I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is important > so...... [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > obtained > by Dr. Helen. Assuming that there are no physical issues, I'd speculate that #1 would be huge. It was with my X. She and her sister would joke all the time about how they basically hated the whole idea of sex, and neither has had sex since they've been single. I frankly don't see what the second even means. And even though I'll venture to guess that I'm older than most of you, the it's difficult to imagine that the third would be difficult for me. In all honesty, my SO gets me so turned on that she often asks me to slow down so that we can savor things a little more. > >I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is important > > so...... [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Did you intend to say anything? >> >I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is >> >important [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - All sex takes place in the mind before the body. >I know this is not a sexuality site, but in marriage sex is important > so...... [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Vickie (taking a stab at being a sex-pert) Oh, and info was obtained > by Dr. Helen. > All sex takes place in the mind before the body. > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What is your take on base needs? Vickie > What is your take on base needs? > Vickie We need them. :D The most fortunate among us find a partner that gives us what we need because they need to. What we want is not always what we need as noted in song. >> All sex takes place in the mind before the body. > > What is your take on base needs? > > Vickie [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I agree. Vickie > All sex takes place in the mind before the body. Another nail on the head... If you don't have passion, a vivid imagination and some aggressiveness (all from the big head) - sex is wham bam thank you to the hole in the wall. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.B.)" > but in marriage sex is important so...... Another nail on the head:) My take, no passion, then no spontaneity or adventure - resulting boredom - no sex. Before marriage, I worked hard and traveled a great deal in my career - yet, still found time to date one or two times per week. EVERY DAY, didn't matter.. I showed, brushed my teeth, combed my hair, used deodorant and cologne; all to make sure I was presentable - why? just in case. You bet ya .. hygiene and being open plays into spontaneity. I found many, but, not all single woman took pretty much similar actions around their careers - why? same reason .. just in case. Now married with kids ---- to much work or boredom.. that's bull crap! If it can be done around long demanding work hours when single with employees pulling on ya (like kids) at every juncture .. and still "just in case" and not now - quit blowing smoke - see the truth and change it! SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.B.)" >> but in marriage sex is important so...... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > employees pulling on ya (like kids) at every juncture .. and still "just > in case" and not now - quit blowing smoke - see the truth and change it! I agree. It is a matter of priorities and excuses, excepting the baby stage. I really think I am with Urf. Sex is mostly in the mind. >>but in marriage sex is important so...... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I found many, but, not all single woman took pretty much similar actions > around their careers - why? same reason .. just in case. Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my teeth everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress nicely, etc.), and I have absolutely no thought of "just in case". How do you explain that? > Now married with kids ---- to much work or boredom.. that's bull crap! > If it can be done around long demanding work hours when single with > employees pulling on ya (like kids) at every juncture .. and still "just > in case" and not now - quit blowing smoke - see the truth and change it! Agreed... > Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my teeth > everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress nicely, etc.), > and I have absolutely no thought of "just in case". How do you explain that? LOL ... how about - in spite of your daily routines, they are just that. - you have left passion and desire by the way side as you've grown old in mind. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.B.)" >> Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my >> teeth everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that. - you have left passion and desire by the way side as you've > grown old in mind. That's an odd conclusion to come to.What has Nellie ever said to lead you to believe she isn't still a passionate and desirous woman? (I'm certain she's given me the impression she is both, recently.) My high personal hygiene standards have a lot more to do with maintaining my morale and sense of self than with keeping myself in readiness for sex - which I do, anyway, because I *am* a happily married woman... with a fully functioning sex drive. Tai >What has Nellie ever said to lead you to believe she isn't still a passionate and desirous woman? (I'm certain she's > given me the impression she is both, recently.) It was a comment based on her post to me - DO NOT PERSONALIZE or MAKE IT OUT TO MEAN MORE - SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" >> What has Nellie ever said to lead you to believe she isn't still a >> passionate and desirous woman? (I'm certain she's given me the >> impression she is both, recently.) > > It was a comment based on her post to me - DO NOT PERSONALIZE or MAKE > IT OUT TO MEAN MORE - Uh...okaaayyyyyy... (It hardly seems something to shout over!) But I would still like to know why you think that people keep themselves clean and well-groomed primarily so they can be ready for sex. Tai >>>What has Nellie ever said to lead you to believe she isn't still a >>>passionate and desirous woman? (I'm certain she's given me the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Uh...okaaayyyyyy... (It hardly seems something to shout over!) Just to avoid possible misunderstanding, I don't remember posting anything else to SD recently, so my guess is that he is referring to the post to which he responded to -- the one that you saw too! If that's not it, I would be very curious to know which post he is talking about. How 'bout it SD? Which post of mine are you talking about? > But I would still like to know why you think that people keep themselves > clean and well-groomed primarily so they can be ready for sex. Even though I know capitalized letters imply shouting - sometimes we have to raise our voice to get others to either listen or stop going down a predisposed road. I think you tend to take what's typed here a bit to literal at times; and maybe in conjunction with the limits of 2D, causes disconnects. As you know, I am NOT a woman, and highly suspect NOT like some of the men that frequent ASM. So, take that into account, whether you like what you perceive of me or not. The obvious - 99.9% of those people that take care of their personal hygiene were taught that from childhood, that's a given. I am not talking about plain 'Jane" that takes a bath and gets dressed to take the kids to school. Nellie was right - I am talking about feline subtleties that attract the senses of those men, like me, that love women (that like being women) and "always" think about "just in case." SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > > But I would still like to know why you think that people keep themselves > > clean and well-groomed primarily so they can be ready for sex. <snipped> > I am not talking about plain 'Jane" that takes a bath and gets dressed > to take the kids to school. Nellie was right - I am talking about > feline subtleties that attract the senses of those men, like me, that > love women (that like being women) and "always" think about "just in > case." There's something very sexy, to some of us, about people in the midst of hard work. Clean is nice, but rippling muscles under a sheen of hard-earned sweat is... mmmmmmmmmmmm... Kitten >>>Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my >>>teeth everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > That's an odd conclusion to come to.What has Nellie ever said to lead you to > believe she isn't still a passionate and desirous woman? Does that mean that you think other things that SD says are based on some real and rational foundation?! > (I'm certain she's > given me the impression she is both, recently.) Well, thank you, Tai. But please don't tell me that I've violated my own standards of modesty with regards to TMI subjects lately, have I? If so, it's been totally unintentional :-) >>>> Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my >>>> teeth everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Does that mean that you think other things that SD says are based on > some real and rational foundation?! I'm sure some of them must be! >> (I'm certain she's >> given me the impression she is both, recently.) > > Well, thank you, Tai. But please don't tell me that I've violated my > own standards of modesty with regards to TMI subjects lately, have I? > If so, it's been totally unintentional :-) No, you were quite subtle. ;) Think Lysistrata. Tai [..] >>>(I'm certain she's >>>given me the impression she is both, recently.) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No, you were quite subtle. ;) Apparently not subtle enough for you :-) > Think Lysistrata. Ah, that...! >>Gee, I am a happily married woman, and still shower and brush my teeth >>everyday (as well as comb my hair, use deodorant, dress nicely, etc.), >>and I have absolutely no thought of "just in case". How do you explain that? > > LOL ... how about - in spite of your daily routines, they are just that. Not sure what you mean. Yes, they are, in fact, my daily routines. I thought you were saying that daily grooming is for the purpose of "just in case", no? I like to be well groomed and nicely dressed, but don't associate it with passion and desire. Now, dressing provocatively and sexy to go out in the evening.... that's something else! > - you have left passion and desire by the way side as you've grown old > in mind. Maybe. Come to think of it, I was pretty much the same when I was younger too. So perhaps I never had passion and desire -- don't tell that to my husband though, LOL... > Not sure what you mean. Yes, they are, in fact, my daily routines. I > thought you were saying that daily grooming is for the purpose of "just > in case", no? I like to be well groomed and nicely dressed, but don't > associate it with passion and desire. Now, dressing provocatively and > sexy to go out in the evening.... that's something else! Glad you knew not to personalize that statement :-) You're right about the provocative aspect = "just in case." From my bachelor days - many confident women wear provocative lingerie under their business attire - not only to enjoy feeling sexy (a good thing) - but, "just in case"; exactly what many women quit doing after marriage and kids. The libido is driven by various degrees of passion, desire, and senses. It's not driven by how smart or good of a mother a women is - or how good of provider or father the man is, or his IQ or his bank account or credit rating; those are just value attractions. For me; a women in a nicely fit summer dress, bare legs, nice pumps and a just bathed fresh scent - my "vivid" imagination does the rest:-p As far as I am concerned - to many older and or married women and men have lost site of their playful little boy and girl inside - that means their imagination is lost as well. If they both quit, my best guess is one quit first - the other gives in later. This is when affairs surface - because the libido never quits (assuming the person is healthy); it just goes to sleep until someone stimulates one of our senses. > Maybe. Come to think of it, I was pretty much the same when I was > younger too. So perhaps I never had passion and desire -- don't tell > that to my husband though, LOL... Passion and desire are subjective - SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > For me; a women in a nicely fit summer dress, bare legs, nice pumps and > a just bathed fresh scent Switch the pumps to sandals, and that's me in the summer -- without a smidgen of desire for "just in case". I think you associate too much meaning to the way people like to present themselves, and have too many stereotypes weighing on your mind! > As far as I am concerned - to many older and or married women and men > have lost site of their playful little boy and girl inside - that means > their imagination is lost as well. I don't know what environment you're in, but in my world that's not the case at all. Look at newly divorced older men and women. If anything, I see much more confidence and carefree attitude about expressing themselves than their younger counterparts. Even without the desire for "just in case", I know that as I've grown older and more comfortable in my own skin, I am much more likely to wear what I like without worrying about whether it's "too this" or "too that"! In a way being older and married not only makes me feel more comfortable and confident, but also *frees* me from anxiety of "what message am I sending". The same is true with many of my female friends. > If they both quit, my best guess is > one quit first - the other gives in later. Now you are talking about keeping passion alive between a couple -- not at all the same thing as why we present ourselves certain ways in public. Here, I agree with you that people should try and keep the sexual energy alive or it'll diminish. But this is not about age. Young couples are at risk too. > Switch the pumps to sandals, and that's me in the summer -- without a > smidgen of desire for "just in case". Your choice.. >I think you associate too much meaning to the way people like to present themselves, and have too many > stereotypes weighing on your mind! I am not setting here making "assumptions" about you or personalizing at you ... so, how about not doing that with me? > I don't know what environment you're in, but in my world that's not the > case at all. Look at newly divorced older men and women. If anything, I > see much more confidence and carefree attitude about expressing > themselves than their younger counterparts. Part of that is due to how the generation has evolved. Sure there's more confidence as people age; historically that's always been so ... but, that has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about SEX why it does or doesn't happen for many. >Even without the desire for "just in case", I know that as I've grown older and more comfortable in > my own skin, I am much more likely to wear what I like without worrying > about whether it's "too this" or "too that"! In a way being older and > married not only makes me feel more comfortable and confident, but also > *frees* me from anxiety of "what message am I sending". The same is true > with many of my female friends. IMO even more substantiation for why affairs happen to the unsuspecting - age aside. They grow so into themselves, while pushing sexuality aside. >Here, I agree with you that people should try and keep the > sexual energy alive or it'll diminish. But this is not about age. Young > couples are at risk too. Young couples are considerably less likely to encounter this level of behavior; especially those in the 20's and 30's. "if" those here in SOCA are any indication. Course, those in the back country sections of America might be very sheltered from how mainstream society is evolving. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > > For me; a women in a nicely fit summer dress, bare legs, nice pumps and > > a just bathed fresh scent [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > meaning to the way people like to present themselves, and have too many > stereotypes weighing on your mind! Heh. When I got home from work today, I changed into work jeans, an old work shirt with tears here and there, and my vinyl boots. Chewy seemed awfully appreciative of the sight. <shrug> While we were waiting for our friend to get here with the pigs we needed to butcher, I brought my tabiano filly into the front yard and brushed her out. When our friend got there, he didn't seem all that oblivious, either. It can be interesting working alongside two men who both appreciate a woman with a sense of humor and a willingness to tackle jobs that are often considered "men's work." Kitten On Jun 23, 9:12 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <CaitMacFhiodhbhui...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > For me; a women in a nicely fit summer dress, bare legs, nice pumps and > > > a just bathed fresh scent [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Kitten When I was painting the exterior of the house, a few neighborhood guys came over. To admire my work. But I think they were gawking because they were waiting to see me fall off the ladder. Dang it! Vickie > On Jun 23, 9:12 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh, hey Cait, how the butchering go? Did you cook it all or freeze it? Yesterday I spent most of the time in the yard. Mowing, picking up the dog stuff, and I spread a bunch of new mulch around our fruit trees. I have been thinking of tackling the sprinklers but I think I might screw things up. Also we have this huge Sequoia in the back and it shades some areas of the lawn, so I am thinking of cutting a few branches back to see if I can get a little more sun there. Also deciding if I should roll out some new sod. Decisions, decisions. Vickie > > On Jun 23, 9:12 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Oh, hey Cait, how the butchering go? Did you cook it all or freeze > it? We got it all done. Our friend used the first two to teach Chewy how to field dress them, then we loaded those two back into his truck for him to take to a local guy to cut and package for a couple of needy families in the area. That left Chewy and me to do the other two by ourselves. Our friend taught Chewy well. He got them both field dressed, then I got them skinned. We soaked them overnight in a vinegar-water mixture, then put them in the freezer to chill this morning, while we were at church. We've got them in the smoker now, with a mixture of oak and mesquite in the firebox. We've apple and pecan chips, along with a mixture of herbs, in a pot of water over the firebox. Once they're done, one goes to our friend, the other is for us. Our friend was appreciative of being able to field dress them all here, but he's not happy with the set-up, so he's going to help us get things lined out so it'll be easier. He often gets calls from local ranches to come get wild hogs that have been caught in live traps. (Wild hogs are such a nuisance and a danger around here that there's year-round open season on them.) He likes to give them to needy families, but the local guy who processes them requires that they be field dressed when they arrive at his shop. So it looks like we'll be doing quite a bit of that from this point out. > Yesterday I spent most of the time in the yard. Mowing, picking > up the dog stuff, and I spread a bunch of new mulch around our fruit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > branches back to see if I can get a little more sun there. Also > deciding if I should roll out some new sod. Decisions, decisions. Just be careful with that beautiful Sequoia! :-) I need to work with my tabiano some more today, but I think I'll wait a bit. She's needing daily attention, as she's due to foal in about 4 weeks or so. Kitten On Jun 24, 4:48 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <CaitMacFhiodhbhui...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jun 23, 9:12 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > field dressed when they arrive at his shop. So it looks like we'll be > doing quite a bit of that from this point out. Nice that you are willing to help out with the needy families. I bet your knife came in handy. > > Yesterday I spent most of the time in the yard. Mowing, picking > > up the dog stuff, and I spread a bunch of new mulch around our fruit [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Just be careful with that beautiful Sequoia! :-) It is about 70yo we think and it is beautiful. It only saps twice a year so that isn't too big a problem. The shade is well loved here. Now is about the time of I get our big root watering thing out. Jam it in the roots and let the water run for a good long time. I think it would be fine to have some lower branches cut. It will survive, but me on a ladder with a saw, not so sure!!! > I need to work with my tabiano some more today, but I think I'll wait > a bit. She's needing daily attention, as she's due to foal in about 4 > weeks or so. Wow. I hope her baby is ok. Wonder what you will call it? Vickie > When I was painting the exterior of the house, a few neighborhood > guys came over. To admire my work. But I think they were > gawking because they were waiting to see me fall off the ladder. > Dang it! Are you sure they were's admiring the view from "behind." ;-) > > When I was painting the exterior of the house, a few neighborhood > > guys came over. To admire my work. But I think they were > > gawking because they were waiting to see me fall off the ladder. > > Dang it! > > Are you sure they were's admiring the view from "behind." ;-) Not a clue. Although, later my husband pointed out I should pick a new pair of paint pants. His comment to me was, "I see you have chosen one of your floral panties for today." And I had walked around the Home Depot in those pants!!! Never notice those things, you know. If I am speaking to a man and he's eyes travel south, I always assume I have some stain or something on my shirt. Look down, nothing there, well, a bug or something must have landed there. Vickie > > > When I was painting the exterior of the house, a few neighborhood > > > guys came over. To admire my work. But I think they were [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > on my shirt. Look down, nothing there, well, a bug or something must > have landed there. I thought *I* was naive! Kitten On Jun 24, 4:50 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <CaitMacFhiodhbhui...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > When I was painting the exterior of the house, a few neighborhood > > > > guys came over. To admire my work. But I think they were [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yep. Most who know me, know I am clueless about that stuff. I remember a couple of friends telling me once, "Vickie, you shouldn't talk to so and so, he is making advances, and your head is in the clouds." And I am like, "What are you talking about!" It could have turned out awful, but I listened to my friends and steered clear. I don't think that man and his wife are together anymore. But, I had absolutely nothing to do with that, thank you very much! Vickie (the unsophisticated) > On Jun 24, 4:50 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Vickie (the unsophisticated) Vickie, you don't need to be sophisticated to know when a man is making advances. You just need to have a bunch of guy friends, so you can learn to understand guys and where they're coming from. Here's a link for you. Listen to Track 12, Triflin' State of Mind. <grin> http://www.oldbootsmusic.com/music01.html Kitten On Jun 24, 5:47 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <CaitMacFhiodhbhui...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 24, 4:50 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - Show quoted text - So basically they, men, are always in a triflin' state of mind? Or just some mornings they wake up and know they are going to be in a triflin' state of mind? You know, I think I am mostly in a triflin" state of mind. lol! Never had a bunch of guy friends. Or father or brothers. I have never understood where the male species is coming from. I have a hard enough time figuring out the one I married!!! :-) Vickie > On Jun 24, 5:47 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > triflin' state of mind? You know, I think I am mostly in a triflin" > state of mind. lol! LOL... I've come to the conclusion that most folks are in a triflin' state of mind, whether they feel like doing anything about it or not. I know I am. > Never had a bunch of guy friends. Or father or brothers. I have > never understood where the male species is coming from. I have a hard > enough time figuring out the one I married!!! :-) I don't have anything to do with my father, and my mother's 2nd husband was just as bad, in a different way. But my maternal grandfather stepped up to the plate. I was his first grandbaby, and born on his b-day to boot. I knew he'd be there for me, where my father never was. With that "knowledge" that some men are trustworthy and many aren't, I didn't have boyfriends in school. Instead, I "adopted" brothers - usually of the "tough guy" sort. <fond smile> They looked out for me, in their own way. I still do that to a degree. My best friends have nearly always been guys. Our friend who was over last night is, I think, right up there at the top of the list of best friends ever. I can count on him whenever I can't count on anyone else. He's going to be really happy with Chewy and me tomorrow. Chewy's delivering his smoked pig to him in the morning. I got back online just to tell you how it turned out. We've been sampling the tenderloin from ours. ooooooohhhhh! It's fabulous! We soaked it overnight in vinegar-water, then chilled it all morning in the freezer. Then I smoked it with mesquite and oak, with apple and pecan chips in water with a blend of herbs. Goes wonderfully with a glass of pinot grigio. OK, Chewy's spent the weekend treating me wonderfully; he learned to field dress a hog, then got out of my way so I could do the skinning; he actually noticed when he was starting to talk aggressively to YS, stopped himself, and took the time to CALMLY talk to YS about the downward spiral they've a habit of getting into; he helped me get the smoker ready and put the pigs in and out of the smoker; he's told me several times how wonderful he thinks I am; and now he's sitting 5 feet away from me bragging to his own online group about these hogs while listening to RadioFreeTexas.org. The meat's probably rested long enough; and we've 3 chickens, a rack of lamb, and a goat rack in the smoker, since the fire was still good and hot. Why is it that after all that, he looks *way* better to me than he looked back when he was grumping and growling all the time? ;-) Kitten On Jun 24, 9:22 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <CaitMacFhiodhbhui...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 24, 5:47 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > state of mind, whether they feel like doing anything about it or not. > I know I am. Yep! > > Never had a bunch of guy friends. Or father or brothers. I have > > never understood where the male species is coming from. I have a hard [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > born on his b-day to boot. I knew he'd be there for me, where my > father never was. That is nice. > OK, Chewy's spent the weekend treating me wonderfully; he learned to > field dress a hog, then got out of my way so I could do the skinning; [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > after all that, he looks *way* better to me than he looked back when > he was grumping and growling all the time? ;-) Yea, well, you know the answer to that one! What a splendid weekend for you. Hope there are more to come. Vickie <snipped> >> Why is it that > > after all that, he looks *way* better to me than he looked back when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What a splendid weekend for you. Hope there are more to come. <big grin> He brought me a long-stemmed red rose to work today. Kitten On Jun 25, 4:24 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: > <snipped> > >> Why is it that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kitten Damn! Way to go Chewy! Vickie <snipped> > Never had a bunch of guy friends. Or father or brothers. I have > never understood where the male species is coming from. I have a hard > enough time figuring out the one I married!!! :-) This song kinda sums up what know about friends, and especially guy friends. When I've really needed someone, it's nearly always been a guy who showed up. http://www.youtube.com/?v=vEN4o0Af_zE Kitten > <snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Kitten I wonder why that is. And if the converse is also true? And if this is typical or atypical behavior (sociologically), for most? On Jun 24, 10:56 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I wonder also. V > On Jun 24, 10:56 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> > I wonder also. > V Well, Zorra added some support to the argument that it may not be necessarily true, and it would be interesting to hear some other's takes on this, too. On Jun 24, 10:36 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Kitten Wow, good song. You are lucky to feel you can count on some people like that. I know for a fact my husband does not trust most people. I think his attitude has rubbed off on me, in the friends department. I have had too many experiences where the chips were down and everyone I knew (which wasn't many) turned tail and ran. These being 99% women for me. They say things like, "If you ever need anything, give me a call." But you know that isn't the case. They are just being polite. Making friends is tough. Especially when you are an old lady like me. :-). And making friends that are men - well I just never considered it. That was kind of a downer post. Sorry bout that. Vickie > On Jun 24, 10:36 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > call." But you know that isn't the case. They are just being > polite. Before this thread start sounding too much like female bashing, let me say that there have been several women that I've really been able to count on when the chips are down. The ones who have really been there for me in my life -- who stuck with me through everything, who listened, sympathized, advised, encouraged, have mostly been women. This is rather unusual considering that I'm one of those women who tend to prefer the company of men -- though to be honest, I have more men friends on the computer, and more women friends in real life. When I played that song, the very first image that popped into my head was of my sister. She was driving home from work when her car died in an unfamiliar and seedy part of town, at about 1am. She found a pay phone to call her husband, but couldn't wake him. Finally, she called her neighbor. This woman got out of bed, threw on a coat over her nightgown and came to get my sister, about an hour round trip at 1am. I think too of the mom and daughter team who stopped to help my mom when she ran out of gas, took her to a gas station, badgered the owner into letting her borrow the gas can, took her back to her car, and then followed her back to the station "just in case". And I think too of my neighbor who came across a motorcycle down in the road, called 911, set up her car as a roadblock, stayed with the woman, talking to her and soothing her until the ambulance got there. She went to the hospital, stayed until the first operations were over and the woman was out of immediate danger, and checked back in with her frequently over the next many weeks of slow recuperation. It was a man who called 911 when my own mom fainted and crashed her car, and men who stopped when her tire blew and she couldn't change it herself (twice!) So I'm certainly not trying to say that women are *more* likely to help than men -- but they are just as likely to I think. Though there may be some differences in the types of help that are more likely to be offered by men versus women. I'd expect women are less likely than men to stop and help a stranger on the road our of fear for their own safety. To your later point Vickie, I too have trouble making close friends. I think there is a knack to it that I haven't mastered. Zorra > > On Jun 24, 10:36 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > > <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I agree with your examples above. But I am talking about a deeper friendship than polite strangers helping out and being a good citizen in general. I can usually make shallow friendships at the drop of a hat. It is the ones that you can really count on that I am unlucky with. Vickie > I agree with your examples above. But I am talking about a deeper > friendship than polite strangers helping out and being a good > citizen > in general. Well the woman that went to get my sister in the middle of the night was her best friend. The woman who gave me crash space in her house for two weeks was my best friend. It tends to be women who rally around to help after a birth or death in the family. > I can usually make shallow friendships at the drop of a hat. It is > the ones that you can really count on that I am unlucky with. Me too, and I think it's because there are so many things that don't occur to me to do. For example, this race I'm going to do in September is a fundraiser for breast cancer. One of my partners is a breast cancer survivor -- only a few months out, so she's still going through it all, trying to regrow her hair, regain her strength, and forge her identity again as a strong woman, not as a cancer victim. Yet it was my *other* partner who mentioned that we should sponsor this woman in the race, make a donation in her name. Something so obvious and thoughtful, and I'm embarrassed to say, it just didn't occur to me. I think the people I know, male and female, who are most likely to have deep friendships are the ones who notice what is needed and who do it without being asked. "Look, let me come stay with your mom one afternoon so you can get out." I'm not good at that. Are you? Zorra > > I agree with your examples above. But I am talking about a deeper > > friendship than polite strangers helping out and being a good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > for two weeks was my best friend. It tends to be women who rally > around to help after a birth or death in the family. Oh. I didn't know that. > > I can usually make shallow friendships at the drop of a hat. It is > > the ones that you can really count on that I am unlucky with. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > do it without being asked. "Look, let me come stay with your mom one > afternoon so you can get out." I'm not good at that. Are you? Yes. I actually think I am. I have done that many a time. Let kids and there sibs stay over for the parents to get a break. Offering it and being asked, I have done it. Picked up a stranger on the Grapevine and ended up driving 100 miles out of my way to drop him. Have donated time and money to a lot of causes and individuals. Offered many mini-get-a-ways with my family to other *so called* friends to have fun on our tab. Most things to do with kids. Parents are working, they know I am home, so I get visitors at all hours and for some reason I cannot turn most away. And there is more. Nothing has never been offered in return. And a couple times I asked for favors only to be politely let down. Yuck, I sound bitter. I don' t like that. I guess it just hurts. You hope by starting a friendship off things will turn out good, then a favor gets into the mix, I do it, again and again and again, with no end in sight and no reciprocation. And I have to say most of the time it is with women. Well, of course, because that is who I look for friendship. One time I thought I might have a friendship with a man, but I must have pissed him off, don't know what happened, because he stopped that quickly. Actually that has happened a few times. But better that than these long term things you hope turn into something more and don't. Vickie >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message >> > One time I thought I might have a friendship with a man, but I must > have pissed him off, don't know what happened, because he stopped that > quickly. Actually that has happened a few times. But better that than > these long term things you hope turn into something more and don't. Maybe you didn't piss him off at all. Have you been around for one of those "be careful about how close you are with friends of the opposite sex that you are sexually attracted to" threads yet? Maybe it was one of those cases, and he didn't feel comfortable building a friendship with a married woman that he was attracted to. It wasn't necessarily anything you did at all. > >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > woman that he was attracted to. It wasn't necessarily anything you did at > all. Naaa. I really don't think so. Vickie >> >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Naaa. I really don't think so. LOL -- but you also think that men in Home Depot don't notice your flowered underpants, and that those guys are really just staring at a stain on your shirt. :-) Zorra > >> "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It is impossible. I was a hideous monster going into that store! Vickie "Vickie <vickie@mcdanielx.com>" wrote of friendships with men that snapped shut unexpectedly, and "Joy <dontreplytot...@dontlikespam.com>" suggested that perhaps each had started to feel uncomfortable "building a friendship with a married woman that he was attracted to". (Aside: when he started his ministry, Billy Graham adopted a rule that he would never be alone in a room or car with any woman except his wife Ruth. He wanted to be certain that he wouldn't end up in the tabloids having to explain himself. No matter how innocent any meeting was, even the explanation would be a distraction.) ANYWAY Ms Vickie said she didn't think that was likely, and "zorra <zor...@comcast.net>" commented: > LOL -- but you also think that men in Home Depot don't notice your > flowered underpants, and that those guys are really just staring at a > stain on your shirt. :-) which earned this from Ms Vickie: > It is impossible. I was a hideous monster going into that store! I posted this last month, but it bears repeating here: a couple years ago, "This American Life" did an entire show about testosterone: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=939 The most interesting segment is "Infinite Gent" (starts at ~15:20), about a woman who decided to become a man and started getting massive testosterone injections. As a woman, Griffin was a feminist and objected to many of the usual stereotypes and thought men who ogled women on the street were jerks. As a man, with the testosterone of two linebackers flowing through his bloodstream, Griffin gets a totally different perspective on life. Pay particular attention to what he says between 18:28 and 18:50. Darren Provine ! kilroy@elvis.rowan.edu ! http://www.rowan.edu/~kilroy "Like the ski resort of girls looking for husbands and husbands looking for girls, the situation is not as symmetrical as it may seem." -- Alan McKay > "Vickie <vic...@mcdanielx.com>" wrote of friendships with men that > snapped shut unexpectedly, and "Joy <dontreplytot...@dontlikespam.com>" [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > for girls, the situation is not as symmetrical as it may seem." > -- Alan McKay Is that true???? No way. That is hard to believe. I mean. I believe it, but it seems so foreign to me. No internal dialogue, just an extreme need to check women out because of testosterone. And the fact that you all, as men have to condition yourself not to act like yourself, because in society that it's considered rude and being a pig. Was it hard conditioning yourself? Or is it just a natural thing that occurs with maturity and age. I am sure some men are not as in control as others. Comparatively as women, lacking the big T, I suppose it is like us trying to be more assertive. And working at not going with our instinct to be the care-giver and passive at all times. That is so funny about the red convertible. It was also strange that he didn't have as many tears. Thank you for that. I am sorely lacking in the knowledge about men. That was very interesting! Vickie > On Jun 26, 8:29 am, Dr Nancy's Sweetie <kil...@elvis.rowan.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > yourself not to act like yourself, because in society that it's > considered rude and being a pig. Well, if you listen to the tape, he had 2-6 times as much testosterone in his body as a normal man. And he went from the very low levels of a normal woman to this ultra high level overnight. I'm not a man, but I would assume that a normal man can go through his life without having sexual fantasies about Xerox machines! I think the point that Darren was making though, was that if a guy is walking along in the Home Depot, looks up and sees a pair of panties peeking through, he'll react regardless of how sweaty or disheveled the woman in question is. Zorra > > On Jun 26, 8:29 am, Dr Nancy's Sweetie <kil...@elvis.rowan.edu> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > - Show quoted text - But can you imagine! A car or a xerox machine! Will the man notice with regular T or notice with the testosterone of 2 linebackers??? Vickie >> Well, if you listen to the tape, he had 2-6 times as much >> testosterone [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > of > 2 linebackers??? :-) The man with the regular T will notice -- the man with the testosterone of 2 linebackers will apparently start having involuntary pornographic images flash through his head. Zorra zorra posted: >> On Jun 26, 8:29 am, Dr Nancy's Sweetie <kil...@elvis.rowan.edu> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Zorra I'm not sure what it is, but within two or three sentences of any of Vickie's post, I have this incredible urge to play video games... > zorra posted: > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry I bore you. Just ignore, please. Vickie > > "Vickie" <vic...@mcdanielx.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > It is impossible. I was a hideous monster going into that store! Vickie, Men stare at me when I'm in holey work jeans, sweaty and dirty from working with livestock or putting in plants, or with semolina all in my hair and my clothes from tossing pizzas, when I think my hair is a horrid mess because curls are sneaking out of my hair clips. They think it's cute if I've got dirt or grease streaked across my forehead from wiping away the sweat with my arm. Some men LIKE that. Don't ask me why. Kitten "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I think those men behold more deeply than do others. It is learned by experience that to see with only eyes is to miss most of what is there. urf "Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them." Hume To me the question has always been.... why do women not see in themselves that which is beauty seen by the men who adore them. They fuss to make themselves even more when all that is needed is a look to melt a heart. > Men stare at me when I'm in holey work jeans, sweaty and dirty from > working with livestock or putting in plants, or with semolina all in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kitten > "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > themselves > even more when all that is needed is a look to melt a heart. OH MY. If that is true that is the loveliest thing ever! Vickie >> "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Vickie I think he's right, too. > "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > themselves > even more when all that is needed is a look to melt a heart. Beautiful, urf. Kitten On Jun 26, 7:45 pm, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Vickie, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yea, ok. I have some quirks too, lol! Vickie > Yuck, I sound bitter. I don' t like that. I guess it just hurts. > You hope by starting a friendship off things will turn out good, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > time it is with women. Well, of course, because that is who I look > for friendship. I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe you're investing in the wrong people? > One time I thought I might have a friendship with a man, but I must > have pissed him off, don't know what happened, because he stopped > that > quickly. Actually that has happened a few times. But better that > than > these long term things you hope turn into something more and don't. If the guys are stopping them quickly, then they may be getting a vibe that you want more, or that they want more and you don't. Sometimes people interpret friendly as flirtatious. It's relatively easy for a working woman to develop a friendship with the men she works with, but harder I think for a stay-at-home mom to find male friends. I know because I tend to prefer the company of men myself, but since leaving work, all my friendships have been with women. It's just to odd to call a man, or to arrange to go places -- there's always this....uncomfortable feeling that there may be something inappropriate about it. Zorra > > Yuck, I sound bitter. I don' t like that. I guess it just hurts. > > You hope by starting a friendship off things will turn out good, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe you're investing in the > wrong people? I am not sure either. Although it has been a while since I really truly put myself out there for a friendship, Not the favors thing, but being open enough to try and connect with someone. > > One time I thought I might have a friendship with a man, but I must > > have pissed him off, don't know what happened, because he stopped [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this....uncomfortable feeling that there may be something > inappropriate about it. Man, I am not even sure if I remember how to flirt! I am just me. And somehow people find me lacking after awhile. Vickie >>> Yuck, I sound bitter. I don' t like that. I guess it just hurts. >>> You hope by starting a friendship off things will turn out good, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > truly put myself out there for a friendship, Not the favors thing, > but being open enough to try and connect with someone. That can be risky and if you've had a few knock-backs then it's not surprising if you don't want to take the risk. I'm not ure what to suggest other than finding a social activity/hobby that you really enjoy and seeing what arises out of that. I understand playing team sports can foster long term friendships but I wouldn't know about that myself! Also, sometimes we are just in the wrong environment for our particular personalities to find people to mesh with. A couple of experiences you've written about in the past couple of days made me think you've been unlucky in that respect. And some of them could be explained by people not having any room in their lives for newer friendships - I know that over the years I've let a number of promising friendship possibilities go and had them let go by the other person where I was concerned. I think that can be more true in different stages in our lives than others. I have only a small handful of good, deep friendships and they've all evolved over a long period of time and been built up (miniature) brick by brick. While they need to be tended to grow and stay healthy they also can't be forced and I've found my closest friendships have just sort of happened without us really thinking about it out of those much more casual but friendly acquaintanceships. But I do sometimes find it hard to give them enough of my time because most of my energies are directed towards my husband and children. It helps that most of my friends have similar commitments! >>> One time I thought I might have a friendship with a man, but I must >>> have pissed him off, don't know what happened, because he stopped [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Man, I am not even sure if I remember how to flirt! I am just me. > And somehow people find me lacking after awhile. I practice on my husband occasionally but I think you have to have a reason to flirt... and it doesn't occur to me very often! I also suspect that if you once knew how to it would come back to you pretty quickly when/if you needed it. :) Do you find these early starts fizzle out without obvious cause or because one of you forg |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message