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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2007Marital mental hell
Hello, I'm in my head a little too much with this one. I've been married for several years and I have a baby, whom I completely adore and whom I could not bear to lose a custody battle over. I have been faithful to my wife throughout our marriage, however when we started dating, I didn't know much about mature relationships. I was also friends with a large group of ex-girlfriends and former casual "hookup" buddies. I tend to form very close, loyal friendships and when someone is there for me, I feel like I need to return the favor. However, because of some incidents where my wife felt disrespected by a few friends whom I had been intimate with, I had to cut several people out of my life to maintain our relationship and eventual marriage. My wife has never been secure about my relationships with ex-girlfriends (despite the fact that she continues a friendship with her married ex-boyfriend -- which I don't mind, except for the double standard). However, my wife has never trusted me because of my mild flirtation habits. To me, it's just a way to validate that I'm still liked and admired... an ego-boost, etc., but she finds it disloyal. So I try not to do it anymore. Anyway, before I met my wife, I was engaged to another woman. We had a volatile live-in relationship. Nothing physical, just a lot of heartbreak, plus pregnancy, abortion, eating disorders (her), bipolar stuff (her), suicidal feelings and OCD (me), etc -- I'm basically OK now. Nevertheless, I felt like she was the love of my life and was heartbroken when she left. We both quickly married about a year-and-a- half later and have only been in touch sporadically since. Last Christmas, we had a huge fight over having no sex life for over six months. Part of this was the baby, but there was no sexual contact either. She called me some horrible names and I, in turn, declared I was going to find an ex-girlfriend and "get laid." Of course, the argument died down quickly, but the empty threat hung over my wife and she used it to continue to make sarcastic comments and not trust me. Recently, I heard through a mutual friend that my ex spoke glowingly of me as her onetime "best friend" whom she misses and feels bad that our relationship ended that way. She said she compares me to her husband a lot and doesn't really have a friendship with him. She also readily admitted to marrying on the rebound. I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and read the mutual friend's note. I hadn't disclosed the more troubling "comparisons with husbands," etc. because it served no purpose other than to hurt my wife and make her insecure. She went off on me, saying I was dishonest and saying that the topic of exes could never come up again if we wanted to stay married. For several years, I have lived without the friendship of many people whom I valued very much because AT ONE TIME, we had been intimate and my wife wasn't comfortable. I can understand my wife's feelings, but at the same time, I feel a huge void in my life and a longing for the many friendships lost. And to be honest, I still wonder "what if?" about my ex. I don't know if my wife and I can make each other happy. At the same time, I feel a huge responsibility to keep my family together and I DO love my wife. I just don't know if I can stay married. I'm lost and I can't bring this up without getting screamed at. Please help and if you're going to post nasty, abusive tough-love sh.t, then don't bother. I had enough of that in my teens. On Jun 25, 4:45 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: < snip > > However, because of some incidents where my wife felt > disrespected by a few friends whom I had been intimate with, I had to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > validate that I'm still liked and admired... an ego-boost, etc., but > she finds it disloyal. So I try not to do it anymore. < snip > > She called me some horrible names and I, in turn, > declared I was going to find an ex-girlfriend and "get laid." Of [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > you're going to post nasty, abusive tough-love sh.t, then don't > bother. I had enough of that in my teens. I have many friends who are exes with whom I occasionally exchange email or see in person. My husband's ex-fiancee from college has stayed at our house and I know there's at least one other ex of his with whom he communicates regularly. In other words, I'm not someone who's hugely jealous or believes that any contact with an ex is inappropriate, as many do. BUT. If you are using ex-contact to get an "ego-boost" out of flirting, you've threatened to sleep with an ex in a moment of anger, your marriage is sexually/emotionally unsatisfying, and this most recent ex is someone who you have what-if thoughts about and she feels the same about you, you would be playing with plutonium to try to re- establish contact with her. That situation is virtually tailor-made for an affair. If that's not what you want, stay the heck away! Sarah >I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She >said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >saying I was dishonest and saying that the topic of exes could never >come up again if we wanted to stay married. Although I am not at all a fan of email snooping, it's pretty easy to see why your wife would feel uncomfortable about the situation to begin with, and why she would go absolutely ballistic about reading the email. It's also pretty clear to me that if you have an ex who you think about and who you compare to your current spouse, and if you truly want to keep your marriage together, you probably shouldn't be spending time with the ex. >For several years, I have lived without the friendship of many people >whom I valued very much because AT ONE TIME, we had been intimate and >my wife wasn't comfortable. I can understand my wife's feelings, but >at the same time, I feel a huge void in my life and a longing for the >many friendships lost. And to be honest, I still wonder "what if?" >about my ex. I have a suspicion, which might be totally wrong, that if your marriage was going better, you wouldn't miss the other friendships so much. >I don't know if my wife and I can make each other happy. At the same >time, I feel a huge responsibility to keep my family together and I DO >love my wife. I just don't know if I can stay married. I'm lost and >I can't bring this up without getting screamed at. Please help and if >you're going to post nasty, abusive tough-love sh.t, then don't >bother. I had enough of that in my teens. I suspect that what's wrong in your marriage is not all about this exs thing. You mentioned the no sex for six months, etc... there have to be *other* things that are fueling that problem. When other people seem most attractive is when things aren't great at home. The absolute best advice you could get, I think, is to figure out what's wrong with the marriage rather than spending too much time worrying about the lost friends part, right at the moment. Have you considered counseling? > >I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She > >said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > about the lost friends part, right at the moment. Have you considered > counseling? Yes, we've been to counseling. I think we should go back, but she's not too keen on going. I think you're right about "missing people" if the marriage was right, although part of THE REASON I've been so dissatisfied is having to cut off communication with so many exes who were close friends -- some of whom did nothing to hurt either me or my wife, or if their behavior was interpreted as hurtful, it was unintentional. In total, we wound up having no sex or sexual contact for eight months. Now we have sex about once every one to two weeks. I wouldn't mind this so much, but the sex is so predictable and non- spontaneous. I find myself frequently fantasizing about all the things I'll do when my marriage is over. The friendships I'll renew, the dating game, etc. I know this isn't all realistic, but I'm ashamed of myself for even thinking about it with a wife and baby. In reality, I think I'll be really down if my marriage ends. Yet I still wonder if this is all a sign I should walk away from the marriage, as long as my son remains in my life. Then again, I can't stand the thought of losing a family and being alone. >> >I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She >> >said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >Yes, we've been to counseling. I think we should go back, but she's >not too keen on going. I think maybe you need to push it, whatever the reaction. Why doesn't she want to go? Do you have any real sense about how she feels about the current state of your marriage? >I think you're right about "missing people" if the marriage was right, >although part of THE REASON I've been so dissatisfied is having to cut >off communication with so many exes who were close friends -- some of >whom did nothing to hurt either me or my wife, or if their behavior >was interpreted as hurtful, it was unintentional. Like Sarah, I'm not a particularly jealous person, and so I don't see that much reason to cut off contact with all exes... but if you like to flirt, however innocently, I can see why that would drive your wife straight up a wall and be a source of constant friction. This is one of those things that it's hard to come to a middle ground on because there's not much compromise if her desire is NO ONE with whom you've ever had a relationship, and all of the people you want to see are people who fit into that category. Did you talk about this in counseling? >In total, we wound up having no sex or sexual contact for eight >months. Now we have sex about once every one to two weeks. I >wouldn't mind this so much, but the sex is so predictable and non- >spontaneous. So why is that? What might change it? >I find myself frequently fantasizing about all the things I'll do when >my marriage is over. The friendships I'll renew, the dating game, >etc. I know this isn't all realistic, but I'm ashamed of myself for >even thinking about it with a wife and baby. Yeah, I know, but when you're in a situation that is unhappy, it's all too normal to do this. And I know you know this, but you need to keep it firmly fixed in your mind that these are fantasies, and that reality would be likely to be very different and a lot less ideal. >In reality, I think I'll >be really down if my marriage ends. Yet I still wonder if this is all >a sign I should walk away from the marriage, as long as my son remains >in my life. Then again, I can't stand the thought of losing a family >and being alone. Well, it doesn't seem to me from what you've said that you are really at the point where there's nothing to salvage. And the other thing that you have to bear in mind is that even if you have the world's most amicable divorce (and believe me, I did), your relationship with your son will change. This is especially true because your son is so young, and you'll be missing those small-child bonding years. Even if you spend a lot of time with him, it just won't be the same. Since you still love your wife and want to be with your son, it seems to me that you need to try everything you possibly can to make the marriage work. Maybe it still won't, but do you really know that yet? On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > >I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She > > >said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I find it hard not to be judgmental here. Were there any relationships you brought to the marriage that were not people you slept with? God, I really feel for your wife. She is your wife, for crying out loud. She went through 9 months carrying your child, labor, nursing probably, maybe have some postpartum, trying to figure out her new role as mom, and you are pissed because you only get it 1 or 2 times a week now? You know if you can't hack it then let her go (and the baby). She deserves better. Go f*** around and see how wonderful your life will be. Why you would even ask your wife if you can reconnect with the woman who you used to be engaged to, I don't get it. You really think she has no idea that you consider this woman the *love of your life*. Get honest with yourself. Do you think that all this will put her in the mood? Not only do you need to go to therapy together, but you need it yourself, and because of you - she should go individually too. I know you were looking for sympathy - but I am not going to give it when you are just looking for any excuse to cheat. Vickie > On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>>> whom I valued very much because AT ONE TIME, we had been intimate >>>> and my wife wasn't comfortable. I can understand my wife's feelings, but >>>> at the same time, I feel a huge void in my life and a longing for the >>>> many friendships lost. And to be honest, I still wonder "what if?" [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Vickie But........! But........! But then you're "denying me" my "well deserved" (cough, belch) chance, for MY OWN happiness, you meanie!!! What about ME ME ME?? You just don't know how HARD it is for me to do without!!! You expect me to be responsible? What are you, some oldie fogie, stuck in the Middle Ages??? Get with the times, babe, it'a ALL about MY happiness, and ME ME ME ME ME :-) On Jun 25, 4:23 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Better an oldie fogie, than some immature, excuse making, disrespectful jackass. How on earth can he say he loves her? Please explain, Bill, because I just don't get it. This other woman is said to be the love of his life, how can the wife possibly even have a shot at filling that role? Vickie > On Jun 25, 4:23 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > > - Show quoted text - The only disrespectful jackass here is you, Vickie. I never said the other woman was the love of my life -- you invented that term. God, you're an idiot! On Jun 26, 6:38 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 25, 4:23 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] > > - Show quoted text - And I quote, "I felt she was the love of my life." Your words blockhead, not mine. Perhaps you meant that was in the past, but you keep going back to her. Get a grip and get REAL. Vickie > And I quote, "I felt she was the love of my life." Your words > blockhead, not mine. Perhaps I apologized too soon for being harsh. Yes, I meant WAS. God, why do people come here if they'll just be ripped apart by someone else's assumptions. Good thing you're not a therapist. "Blockhead?" Who do you think you are, the 5-cent doctor in Peanuts? Waste of a nickel. Do you treat everyone like this in the name of help? On Jun 26, 7:24 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > And I quote, "I felt she was the love of my life." Your words > > blockhead, not mine. > > Perhaps I apologized too soon for being harsh. Yes, I meant WAS. I posted below that I had already snapped back. > God, why do people come here if they'll just be ripped apart by > someone else's assumptions. Good thing you're not a therapist. > "Blockhead?" Who do you think you are, the 5-cent doctor in Peanuts? > Waste of a nickel. I used blockhead to not use some other words I wanted to. You can call me Lucy. > Do you treat everyone like this in the name of help? Nope. Your first post came to me as an *ode to my ex's* with a few dribbles of perhaps, maybe, perchance I am considering working on this with my wife for my marriage. And that is such a pity. You are sounding a bit differently to me now. I hope things work out for the best. Vickie > On Jun 26, 7:24 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Vickie Thanks, Vickie. Best to you as well. The ex is not in my life, my wife is. Let's hope it stays that way. Looks like almost anyone can be accused of being too blunt, a bully, or abusive. > Looks like almost anyone can be accused of being too blunt, a bully, > or abusive. Is that what Lombard said. I just remember the Peanuts comment, the I would never marry you, and the jackass/idiot remark. What can I say? His first post rubbed me the wrong way. I admit to being fairly blunt, but not a bully or abusive. Nina suggested trying to look at it in a different light. I slept on it and I think I was able to, (a little). The more he wrote, the easier it was for me to find that he wanted to work things out with his wife. It was all good in the end. I hope things work out for them. Seems like they are just hitting that rough patch after a babe is born. I remember that place well. It is so confusing to try and find how it all fits together at that time in your life. Hey, side note, how is your grandson's face from his fall. Everything healing ok? Vickie On Jun 26, 6:38 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 25, 4:23 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > other woman was the love of my life -- you invented that term. God, > you're an idiot! You also didn't complain about having sex once or twice a week - you said it's at once a week or twice a month, and that it's non- spontaneous - code word for "not really good." I'm not saying that this is any kind of excuse to be fantasizing about your X - but only that both you and your wife need to acknowledge all of the problems on the table, of which sex is one - and probably a big one. I'm watching some daytime TV show right now where some expert is saying that 10% of couples do not resume normal sexual relationships (however they defined it before) after the birth of a child - 10% go at least one year without sex at all, and it's the woman who has lost interest. Hormones. My view on this is that the man has to step up and use his hormones to get the woman jump-started again - her own hormones are guiding her off in a different, less sexual direction. A. [snip] >I'm not saying that this is any kind of excuse to be fantasizing about >your X - but only that both you and your wife need to acknowledge all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >at least one year without sex at all, and it's the woman who has lost >interest. Hormones. I agree. I was 32 when my son was born, and I remember distinctly how revved up I was when I was pregnant -- all the way up until the end (the benefits of the extra testosterone in my system, I guess) -- and the nose dive my libido took after his birth. I was breastfeeding as well and did so until he was about 9 months old. It was at about that point that I began to feel like myself again -- as a completely separate entity from my son. Gradually, my libido returned (and as I entered my late 30's, really took off). We all know that childbirth takes a toll on a marriage. And I think it also exposes any weaknesses in the relationship as well, even magnifies them. Usually, it's temporary. But if you're on shaky ground already (as we were), it can really throw a monkey wrench in the carefully constructed coping mechanisms you've created to deal with a less than healthy situation. Barb On Jun 26, 2:09 pm, Barbara Didrichsen <barbe...@yahooremove.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:53:26 -0000, Atalanta arctos > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Barb Basically the same thing happened here. My second marriage never had to go through the trials and tribulations of pregnancy and childbirth (thank god) - but it does make a difference, and I really did factor that difficulty in, when I was attempting to figure out what to do with my first marriage. Our marriage had had its ups and downs, before we had our first baby, but after we had two kids, it was mostly down, down, down. I was just thinking about that today - how different he and I were with regard to what we thought was a proper family life and how we incorporated parenting/changing hormones into our lives. A. On Jun 26, 6:38 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 25, 4:23 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > The only disrespectful jackass here is you, Vickie. I never said the > other woman was the love of my life -- you invented that term. You said "Nevertheless, I felt like she was the love of my life and was heartbroken when she left." You should try understanding the changes in women's bodies after giving birth and other issues that affect them. Vickie was right. She carried your baby for nine months. Keep that in your head instead of tryign to find excuses to act irresponsibly by saying that your wife doesn't take responsibility.Your wife is going through a lot of changes. Have some sympathy for crying out loud and do something to help your wife. As for other mean complaining about not getting sex instead of understanding what woman goes through after birth, any woman who marries that type of man is gets pity from me. Btw, I landed here accidentally after creatign a new google accont. Frankly, I have never gotten into a serious relationship where I would jeopardise my emotional well-being to the point of life-alteration situation MAINLY because of men like those. Not that the men I had bene involved were bad or jackesses but for the first time in my life, I feel like I am meeting someone I should give a chance if he wants the same. Is there any support group for relationships like that? > God, > you're an idiot!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >role as mom, and you are pissed because you only get it 1 or 2 times a >week now? I don't think that's at all why he's complaining. He said, this is not a problem. He said, no sex for 8 months was a problem. Would you be ok with that? >You know if you can't hack it then let her go (and the baby). She >deserves better. Go f*** around and see how wonderful your life will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I know you were looking for sympathy - but I am not going to give it >when you are just looking for any excuse to cheat. I really think that you're reading something in that isn't something that he said, and I don't think he was looking for sympathy; he was looking for suggestions. > >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > not a problem. He said, no sex for 8 months was a problem. Would you > be ok with that? I start going bonkers after just a few *days*. 8 months??? No way! However, having once been in a relationship where 6 months wasn't unusual, I'd go along with the suggestions for counseling, as well as for physicals and checking for depression. Kitten >>> On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] >> not a problem. He said, no sex for 8 months was a problem. Would >> you be ok with that? What I'd have a problem with is the state of the marriage that *caused* the unpleasant side-effect of no sexual intimacy of any kind for that long. There could be many and varied reasons for that, not all to do with having a cruel, cold, and generally naughty wife. However, I hung out in misc.kids.pregnancy long enough to find out that it's extremely common for some women to go off sex for months and months and scarily long months! And just expect their husbands to cope without them (the women) even trying to look for even partial-solutions. Madness! <Suppressing rant about married people who think they can unilaterally put their sex lives on hold indefinitely without seriously jeopardising their relationships> > I start going bonkers after just a few *days*. 8 months??? No way! I resemble that remark. Longest I've ever gone was 3 weeks and that was after my middle baby. (Oh, wait, we're only talking about PIV sex, here, aren't we? :)) ) > However, having once been in a relationship where 6 months wasn't > unusual, I'd go along with the suggestions for counseling, as well as > for physicals and checking for depression. Yep. Tai >>>> On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > What I'd have a problem with is the state of the marriage that *caused* the > unpleasant side-effect of no sexual intimacy of any kind for that long. Good call!!! And quite insightful. > There could be many and varied reasons for that, not all to do with having a > cruel, cold, and generally naughty wife. > >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Really? Ok I will go back and re-read, because it sounded like...Well, I did this tiny thing here, BUT THEN SHE DID THIS, and then I did this, here, but it was insignificant, THEN SHE STOPPED THIS. One excuse after another. And that in the end he wants, maybe not an excuse to cheat, but and excuse to divorce her. Vickie >> >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] >THIS. One excuse after another. And that in the end he wants, maybe >not an excuse to cheat, but and excuse to divorce her. But don't you think that's how most marital problems work. I did this and then he did this and then I did this and then he did this? It's telling the story, and, well, we all lean to our side of the story. I read a lot of this as, I am unhappy and because I am unhappy I think about a world in which I might be less unhappy... which is all too human. Which is all too human, and pretty much what many, many people do when they're miserable. Been there, done that, actually. That doesn't mean that you're (necessarily) looking for carte blanche to do what you want, but looking for a way out of being miserable. What's hard for me to tell in this story, really, is what the root causes of the problems are. > I read a lot of this as, I am unhappy and because I am unhappy I > think [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > do > what you want, but looking for a way out of being miserable. Thank you for expressing this so well. I agree completely. Zorra > > >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Here it is. You tell me what I got wrong. Married several years - wife had a baby. Excuse 1 - Didn't know about mature relationships Friends with tons of ex-girlfriends - some he was just friends with, some he laid once in awhile. Excuse 2 - Forms close bonds with all these woman. Wife will not let him continue on with them. He says wife felt disrespected (he considers it over "some" incident, my guess, his flirtations or the other women). He HAD to cut those relationships. This of course is due to her insecurity, nothing to do with him. Oh yea, and she has one ex who is married (probably happily married). Double standard to him. Excuse 3 - He needs his ego pumped up. It is not enough that his wife loves and married him. "She" finds this disloyal to look outside the marriage for his ego-trips. Excuse 4 - Next paragraph he has devoted to the *love of his life*. Blah, blah, blah, he was heartbroken. Excuse 5 - This was a rebound relationship for him and unfortunately he married the poor sap. Excuse 6 - No sex for 6 months. (Hmmm. if C-section, she can't for 3). So I will be generous and say 4 months no sex. He purposely pushes her insecurity buttons by saying, "Fine no sex - I will cheat, but not with some stranger, nope, with my ex!" Excuse 7 - She uses excuses to make sarcastic comments and brings this up to keep not trusting him. (I wonder why??) Next paragraph goes into this *love of his life* and how she lets a mutual friend know that she wants him because her own husband sucks. (Here is where wife snoops, I say, good instincts.) Excuse 8 - He has been deprived of his friendship with this woman. Wife's fault. Actually deprived of all his woman. He wonder what if????? Excuse 9 - Says he loves his wife, but she doesn't want to talk of him about rekindling his friendship with his lost love, so she yells. He thinks this is unfair. Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. Maybe you can read between those lines, Nina. I think I am in a pissy mood today, but I still think all that is between is "I want an excuse to get out of my marriage." He says he has had enough tough love talk in his teens, well he needs some *real* talk now. Vickie >Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >He says he has had enough tough love talk in his teens, well he needs >some *real* talk now. People who just want to get out of their marriage just do it. <shrug> You can read it however you like, of course, and I could be dead wrong, but a lot of this is simply typical of the kind of thinking you do in a miserable situation that you don't know what to do about. And if you do read the second post, you'd see that he wants to go back to counseling, but his wife doesn't. It's rarely one person's fault. But, for me, believing the best of people and trying to explore what positive things they can do tends to work a little better. > >Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But, for me, believing the best of people and trying to explore what > positive things they can do tends to work a little better. Shrug, that is all I get, Nina! Alright, I have never been divorced so I am probably not the one to comment. I will read his other post, later. I am a little keyed up now. I am not being fair to the OP. Vickie >> >Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Shrug, that is all I get, Nina! I just meant, I read it one way, you read it another; it's kind of pointless to spend a lot of time arguing how to read something. Or at least I've never had any luck with it in the past! :-) > I just meant, I read it one way, you read it another; it's kind of > pointless to spend a lot of time arguing how to read something. Or at > least I've never had any luck with it in the past! :-) That's exactly right... However, it's important to realize that many ASM folks tend to come in with multiple interpretations, seldom healthy values; but the always "safe" get counseling; some fast foot work of understanding laid upon some compassion and the glass is half full. In my estimation - that does little more then foster what's already grown ugly. >>Anyway, before I met my wife, I was engaged to another woman. We had >>a volatile live-in relationship. Nothing physical, just a lot of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>heartbroken when she left. We both quickly married about a year-and-a- >>half later and have only been in touch sporadically since. I read the OP's topic post - and the above statements stood out for many reasons; he sounds immature and boarding unhealthy; not only in judgment, but poor social skills and hasn't a clue about what constitutes valued friendships; x-girlfriend/bed mates are NOT. He just want's to be told he's ok --- and what ever he wants is ok --- ALL wrong! Seems he's still meandering, wrapped up in sex with earlier women and some how turned those past emotional messes into what he calls intimate friendships of sorts. Then after several years of growing resentment because his wife was uncomfortable (and rightfully so) regarding his behavior and maintaining those past relationships; he thinks he deserves understanding... he deserves nothing more then a slap up side the head in my book of values. I understand why his wife reacts as she does - his priorities are distorted. He says he's lost; he's right about that... The sad part though, apparently he's not ready to do much more then say "if we're not going to tell him what he wants to hear - then don't bother." I will give him one thing - he's right he missed the mark on tough love when he was a kid, it's apparent.  SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > Alright, I have never been divorced so I am probably not the one to > comment. I will read his other post, later. I am a little keyed up > now. I am not being fair to the OP. Actually some divorcee's even multiple-married types need to be slapped up side the head by those that have a semblance of knowledge regarding positive healthy marriages and relationships. Mind you, marriage isn't perfect and we can't be happy all the time. It's sharing how we cope with our trials and tribulations with smatterings of happiness that hopefully keeps people from running to what all to often turns out to be selfishness and or narcissistic divorce motives. So, don't feel because you've never been divorced, you're perception isn't real or valued..it is. The idea is to get married "once", not lay claim to value buckets of divorce knowledge. If you haven't visit ASD, do so; and read all the distortions, pretty sad. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > >Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But, for me, believing the best of people and trying to explore what > positive things they can do tends to work a little better. Nina, THANK YOU for your support of what I was saying, which you grasped perfectly. I wish other people were that perceptive! On Jun 26, 6:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > >Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I agree. Way to be objective Nina. Although I *am* being perceptive, just not in the way Lombard wants me to be. Vickie > > > >On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > > Excuse 1 - Didn't know about mature relationships I was 24 when we got together and my past exes were somewhat unbalanced. Not an excuse > Friends with tons of ex-girlfriends - some he was just friends with, > some he laid once in awhile. Not when I wasn't single! > Excuse 2 - Forms close bonds with all these woman. Wife will not let > him continue on with them. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He HAD to cut those relationships. This of course is due to her > insecurity, nothing to do with him. I NEVER flirted with exes. And stop your guessing, it's disrespectful to make assumptions like that. > Oh yea, and she has one ex who is married (probably happily married). > Double standard to him. Unhappily married actually. But that's another story. > Excuse 3 - He needs his ego pumped up. It is not enough that his wife > loves and married him. "She" finds this disloyal to look outside the > marriage for his ego-trips. Who DOESN'T like a little attention?? > Excuse 4 - Next paragraph he has devoted to the *love of his life*. > Blah, blah, blah, he was heartbroken. Didn't call my ex the love of my life. > Excuse 5 - This was a rebound relationship for him and unfortunately > he married the poor sap. That was my ex's relationship. And my wife is not a poor sap. I probably shouldn't have gotten together so quickly with her, but whatever. > Excuse 6 - No sex for 6 months. (Hmmm. if C-section, she can't for > 3). So I will be generous and say 4 months no sex. > He purposely pushes her insecurity buttons by saying, "Fine no sex - I > will cheat, but not with some stranger, nope, with my ex!" EIGHT MONTHS and I don't just mean no sex, I mean NO SEXUAL CONTACT. > Excuse 7 - She uses excuses to make sarcastic comments and brings this > up to keep not trusting him. (I wonder why??) > > Next paragraph goes into this *love of his life* and how she lets a > mutual friend know that she wants him because her own husband sucks. > (Here is where wife snoops, I say, good instincts.) Whatever, your opinion doesn't carry much weight. > Excuse 8 - He has been deprived of his friendship with this woman. > Wife's fault. Actually deprived of all his woman. > He wonder what if????? Not ALL. And yes, somewhat her fault, considering she's been giving me grief about this from DAY ONE because of HER OWN insecurites. > Excuse 9 - Says he loves his wife, but she doesn't want to talk of him > about rekindling his friendship with his lost love, so she yells. He > thinks this is unfair. > Did I miss anything. Haven't gone through the other post yet. Did I call her my "lost love?" God, your melodrama is worse than my own wife's! Thank God I'm not married to you! > Maybe you can read between those lines, Nina. I think I am in a pissy > mood today, but I still think all that is between is "I want an excuse [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Show quoted text - NOT FROM YOU!! "I read the OP's topic post - and the above statements stood out for many reasons; he sounds immature and boarding unhealthy; not only in judgment, but poor social skills and hasn't a clue about what constitutes valued friendships; x-girlfriend/bed mates are NOT. He just want's to be told he's ok --- and what ever he wants is ok --- ALL wrong!" If that was all they were(x-gfs, bedmates), I'd walk away in a heartbeat. These are people whom I had decade-plus long friendships with (that included periods of intimacy), people whose families took me in for Thanksgiving when I had nowhere to go and people whom I'd known since I was 15 years old. It's not THAT easy to detach. Nonetheless, I've done it.... FOR YEARS. That makes me IMMATURE??? I don't disagree with everything you've said... perhaps I do have one foot out the door. All I know is that I'm willing to do anything to haul it back in and fall in love all over again with my wife. And Vickie, the "love of my life" thing... I said "was." Looking back, I don't know if she "is." All I know is that marriages don't happen for no reason and I'm focused on restoring the one I have. I'm not contacting my ex or attempting to, however mad it drives me. So give me a little credit here! On Jun 26, 8:57 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > I'm not contacting my ex or attempting to, however mad it drives me. So > give me a little credit here! How would you feel if there was someone from your wife's past whom she wasn't contacting because she didn't want to upset you, but you could tell it was driving her mad to not contact him? Kitten On Jun 26, 9:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > Did I call her my "lost love?" God, your melodrama is worse than my > own wife's! Thank God I'm not married to you! Go back and re-read your original post. You did call your ex the love of your life, and you also said you were now wondering "what if." jen > On Jun 26, 9:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > jen I said "I believed she WAS the love of my life." As in "at the time." As for now, I have no idea, but I'm certainly not rushing to contact her and tempting fate. On Jun 26, 10:05 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 26, 9:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > time." As for now, I have no idea, but I'm certainly not rushing to > contact her and tempting fate. But you are wondering "what if." I'm not going to lambast you for that. When a marriage is suffering, it can be normal to look at the grass on the other side and wonder if it is greener. But let's get honest, okay? You're not going to get to the heart of your dilemma if you can't be completely self-honest. Your wife is insecure about your other relationships. Whether this is something you helped create, or she manufactured on her own, or a little of both (which is my guess), her insecurity is interfering with your sex life. It's awfully difficult to relax and enjoy sex if you don't trust your partner and fear he's wondering "what if" about someone else. While it's normal to wonder what if, can you see it's not helping your situation? If you want to give your marriage one last chance, then you need to put aside these wonderings completely, and turn towards your wife. Take that one foot off the floor and take off your sprinting shoes completely. Intimacy is scary as hell. It's scary as hell to depend on one person only for the rest of your life to meet your sexual and intimacy needs. It gets even more scary when you bring a baby into the picture, because now there's not one adult dependent on you, there's also a tiny innocent life that's dependent on both of you to make the marriage work. Wow, that's awfully intimidating! What if I told you that one of the most common times for affairs to happen in a marriage is when a baby is born? It's true. Why is that... it's because suddenly "forever" is really forever. You can get divorced, but you can never break the bond as parents of that child you created together. It is fairly normal to have hesitations and start questioning everything. This is what I think you are doing. And, what your spouse is *also* doing. She is having a really hard time relaxing and trusting. She's just as scared as you are. She's scared that she will give you her heart 100%, and her body, and you'll hurt her because someday you will decide the grass is greener somewhere else and sprint off, leaving her alone and rejected. Such fear is really not very conducive to great sex. jen > On Jun 26, 9:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > jen Many thanks, jen. V Hey Op... I can kinda see how the folks here reacted to your original post and can understand their reactions. If you just want out... leave. Simple as that.. don't drag it out and make it painful for EVERYONE involved. As a wife with five kids, I have been in your wifes shoes (as has any mom/wife). But rather than bombard you with accusations and the like... let me ask you this: What have you done RECENTLY to emotionally uplift and support your wife, to help her feel more secure in your love? I'll share with you some secrets that has helped my current marriage tremendously ( My first marriage ended when my husband died. No divorce here and I'm a firm believer that most everything can be worked out if you put enough TIME and EFFORT into it. ) 1. Say "I love you" and mean it. I don't mean with just your voice. Actions speak much louder than words. Spell out "I love you" in her favorite chocolate candy on the kitchen table before you leave for work in the morning. Actively think about the things you love about your wife... how she laughs at your jokes or that she's kind to animals or how she tenderly rocks your child to sleep... write these things down with " I love you because...." at the top and pop it into a nice card and give it to her. Draw a bath for two complete with candlelight and bathe and pamper her. Give small, thoughtful, non- essential gifts. ( nix the toaster or bath robe) Tell her she's beautiful...and mean it... put the look in your eyes that you are excited to look at her and be with her. There are many ways to SHOW love outside of sex. I guarentee... if your wife feels loved... she's more will to give and show it her self. This is step one to an improved sex life... 2. Be attentive and respectful of your spouse... When you threatened her with an affair, you broke down her trust in you. It will take time and persistance to rebuild that. It won't happen in weeks or months... be patient, be loving and be faithfully honest about ALL things no matter how small it might be to you. 3. Don't be negative. Statements that begin with " I don't like it when you..." will always lead to hurt feelings. Instead focus on the positive: I love it when you do this... or I feel so good when you .... Freely compliment your wife on the positive aspects of your sex life. She'll feel more confident and more willing. :) Please do not ever criticize your partner's feelings.... you may not like her feelings... you may not understand... and you may not feel like she SHOULD feel that way but the fact remains .. she does. And she has a right to her feelings. Accept them... and ask.. how can I make "this feeling" change or be better? 4. Make it a priority to satisfy your partner's needs.... whether physical or emotional and the gesture is likely to be reciprocated. Be good... get good. Listen to what your wife really wants... learn what pleases her the most and then go out of your way to provide it. 5. Four things you can do every day to keep intimacy alive: a.) Talk and LISTEN b.) TIME... this is the greatest gift you can give and it's also the most gratifying to receive. Be greedy with your time with your wife... it's precious. c.) Touch. The importance of physical touch is so under-rated... but it's the key to being emotionally satisfied. Lightly touch her arm while she's telling about her day and what the baby did or when the two of you are out shopping. Keep a physical conection going whenever your together. Give her a nice bear hug when you come home from work. CUDDLE!!! Make it a priority! and lastly d.) Treat. Ask yourself.... what does my wife want or need to day? an hour break from the baby? comfort food? or maybe a little "just because" gift or flowers? Everything that I've written works both ways. My husband was driving me crazy with the ex's who are still friends, our sex life was in the dump and I started doing the things listed above... and inside of a month of being persistant...things started changing and then he started doing these same things for me. It's made a huge difference in the level of intimacy we share now, our sex life is fantastic (even with five kids... seven on the weekend), our family is happier and calmer and ya know... damn the luck... but we avoided a divorce that I was sure was coming. I've never been happier. And since you ARE a man... please don't limit sex to a fifteen minute romp unless she WANTS a quickie. Make it last... focus on her.. touch and explore ( I don't know how much detail I can go into here...) but basically make it ALL about her... for.. I don't know... at least an 1/2 hour or so... then worry about yourself. Do these things for a month... just a month.... I guarentee you'll see a 100% improvment with your marriage. HTH.. Jen On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" <jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com> wrote: > And since you ARE a man... please don't limit sex to a fifteen minute > romp unless she WANTS a quickie. Make it last... focus on her.. touch > and explore ( I don't know how much detail I can go into here...) but > basically make it ALL about her... for.. I don't know... at least an > 1/2 hour or so... then worry about yourself. lol! Not at you, not at all. I am laughing because it might just be a typo, but I thought you, at the last minute, decided to be generous to Lombard. You left an *an* before your 1/2 hour, which I think you had first written *an hour*. You should have stuck with an hour if that is what you meant. Maybe even 2!!! > Do these things for a month... just a month.... I guarentee you'll see > a 100% improvment with your marriage. I agree, Jen. Good post. Vickie (who doesn't want you to pop her bubble, if it was a typo!) :-) > On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Vickie (who doesn't want you to pop her bubble, if it was a > typo!) :-) Hi Vickie, Actually I had originally written an hour... but if the man has been doing quickie or getting nothing at all... I figured a 1/2 hour was a good start. LOL My husband and I "play" for several hours sometimes... it's great. *big grin* Jen On Jun 27, 7:45 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" <jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Show quoted text - (Heehee) That is what I thought. Very generous of you! Playing is great. Vickie > On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Vickie (who doesn't want you to pop her bubble, if it was a > typo!) :-) Thanks Jen. Actually she prefers quickies. I often have to negotiate with her for more. I know that sounds like a role reversal, but she gets very tired. That's another thing that bothered me -- I thought she lost sexual interest in me. Those are some great ideas though. These past couple days she threw out her back and I've just been trying to massage her and help her with various things. I got some ammo recently with a reply from the mutual friend who said she was surprised that my wife would read her email to me and that she was bringing these insecure feelings on herself by not trusting me because if I wanted to be with another woman, I'd be with her. She also said that my ex wasn't saying, "I HATE MY HUSBAND! I should have married my ex when I had the chance," but rather saying, "I love my husband but I wish he would open up to me more like my ex did." Which, the friend added, is a compliment to me and says I'm a great husband. Well, I'm not going to push it. I did tell my wife the other night that I was not going anywhere and that I loved her and was sticking by her side. I think it had quite the positive effect. There's been no talk of divorce since. On Jun 28, 2:36 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > that I loved her and was sticking by her side. I think it had quite > the positive effect. There's been no talk of divorce since. So you've got a couple of days without divorce talk - VERY good. No matter how open you were with your ex - or how she perceives you - there's no guarantee that you're as open with your current wife. And we don't know how your wife perceives things. I'd say you seem pretty open, in general, though, if that's any help. I don't think that makes you "a good husband" necessarily - especially if you are pretty open with lots of people. I know some people like that trait in a husband or wife - I most decidedly do NOT (and neither does my DH). It's good that you're posting here anonymously, which isn't the same thing as emailing to an X or even talking to friends about your situation with your wife. Your wife needs you to love, protect, respect her - all that good stuff. BTW, the "your wife shouldn't be jealous if you speak to your X, if you were wanted to be with that other woman, you'd be with her" is just another version of, "If I feel like it, I can leave any time I want" - not a happy making statement for an insecure spouse to hear. So you might want to keep that particular open statement from your friend *to yourself* around your wife, anyway - for the time being. Hopefully your marriage is based on more than just what either of you happens to want at the time. When you say "she prefers quickies," do you mean sex in which you climax and she doesn't? A. > When you say "she prefers quickies," do you mean sex in which you > climax and she doesn't? Yes, I mean, sure she'll occasionally like longer ones where she climaxes, but often it's seems like, "Do what you gotta do and get it over with so I can watch TV and go to sleep." On Jun 28, 2:36 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 27, 7:15 pm, "jennifer.mainwel...@gmail.com" > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I tried posting yesterday. No luck. Although my post might eventually get here, so sorry, if I repeat myself. Quickies were all I wanted right after my 3 kids were born. Just couldn't get the baby out of my head. I always felt this time pressure to be available to them when they were insy. I tried really hard to let go, and succeeded a handful of times. The thing was I came right out and told my husband what was up. He was glad it really had nothing to do with him so he enjoyed his *Let's go!* race to the finish. As far as my release went, I wasn't all that concerned. Just happy to spend the few moments with him to be close. The tricky part came a later when I had to pull hard on the reins to slow him down. We are still working that one out! Vickie > On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I'm not looking to cheat. That never crossed my mind and isn't an option. And the current state of our sex life is not the reason I'm "pissed." I'm not "pissed" at all, except when she takes no responsibility for anything in our discussions. God, people like you make me sick. Shoot first and ask questions later. On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > >I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She > > >said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ok, not quite as keyed up anymore. I still think you are making excuses to leave your wife. Stop looking at the past, of all these women you used to be with. Know that by keeping these women in your thoughts is not letting you move forward. Choose to move forward with your wife and baby. Tell yourself your wife is who you picked to spend the rest of your life with, and that making her happy is top priority, and that in return, you yourself will be happy. Try to make new friends that are where you are now, meaning married with kids. Make the couple's therapy appts. yourself. Tell her when they are. I have a feeling if it is all set up, she would more than likely go. If she doesn't, then go yourself. You need to so you can get over the fact that when things get tough in your marriage you don't turn to focusing on past relationships. That you focus on making things right between yourself and the woman you took your vows with. If sex is predictable and a bore to you, step up to the plate, and do something about it. First, put in an extra effort in helping with the baby and around the house. The more relaxed she can get the better. Do the romantic gestures you feel so keen on doing with other women, and do those for your wife. Experiment with a few things in bed. Find out what she likes. Maybe right now a quickie is all she is up for because of her thoughts on the babe. It doesn't mean it will always be like that. Let go of your expectations. Maybe you can get her going with a massage first. Maybe try something you have never tried before. But see, this is WORK and TIME you need to put in with your wife. You have a commitment you have to keep. If you can do some of these things you should have no time for your fantasies of your ex's. Another thing that sounds awful to me, is you state you will feel really *down* if your marriage ends. Not heartbroken, or devastated, or despair. Just down. I don't know Lombardidiedi. Get yourself some help on what you think is important in your life. Vickie > On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I apologize for snapping back so harshly. I don't like character attacks. I didn't mean "down" as in "bummed." I know it would be worse... tears shed, feeling of no future, etc. I guess I meant it like Paul McCartney when he called John Lennon's death "a drag." I didn't explain it as clearly as I'd hoped. Your advice is sound and I will take initiative to follow it. On Jun 26, 7:09 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jun 25, 3:12 pm, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ok. But I have already snapped back to you before I reached this post! Vickie > Ok. But I have already snapped back to you before I reached this > post! As have I. Oh well. > Hello, I'm in my head a little too much with this one. I've been > married for several years and I have a baby, whom I completely adore [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > cut several people out of my life to maintain our relationship and > eventual marriage. Your wife felt disrespected but you don't agree with that she was justified in feeling that way? It seems to me as if you've distanced yourself from your wife here but the rest of your post makes me think, on balance, that her concerns about boundary-crossings by you and your friends might have been justified. My wife has never been secure about my > relationships with ex-girlfriends (despite the fact that she continues > a friendship with her married ex-boyfriend -- which I don't mind, > except for the double standard). However, my wife has never trusted > me because of my mild flirtation habits. To me, it's just a way to > validate that I'm still liked and admired... an ego-boost, etc., but > she finds it disloyal. So I try not to do it anymore. It sounds like you are respecting her feelings there, now. > Anyway, before I met my wife, I was engaged to another woman. We had > a volatile live-in relationship. Nothing physical, just a lot of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > heartbroken when she left. We both quickly married about a > year-and-a- half later and have only been in touch sporadically since. We can love people very much who we are not good for and/or who are not good for us. Good relationships require more than love, love is only a starting position. > Last Christmas, we had a huge fight over having no sex life for over > six months. Part of this was the baby, but there was no sexual [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my wife and she used it to continue to make sarcastic comments and not > trust me. Well, really, do you think she should have trusted you? You call the threat an "empty" one but your wife had no reason to think it was other than a firm promise to step out on her if she didn't become immediately available. Also, it's the kind of comment that will guarantee ill-feeling, and clamped thighs or reluctant and unhappy coupling if sex does take place. > Recently, I heard through a mutual friend that my ex spoke glowingly > of me as her onetime "best friend" whom she misses and feels bad that > our relationship ended that way. She said she compares me to her > husband a lot and doesn't really have a friendship with him. She also > readily admitted to marrying on the rebound. So your 'friend' is telling you your ex is unhappy and in a potentially emotionally available state. > I asked my wife if she would mind if I was friends with my ex. She > said she wasn't comfortable with it, then snooped into my email and > read the mutual friend's note. I hadn't disclosed the more troubling > "comparisons with husbands," etc. because it served no purpose other > than to hurt my wife and make her insecure. And make her legitimately concerned about everyone's motives, thereby arousing her suspicions and making it even less likely she'd be happy with you picking up with your ex? Which you are really, teally keen on doing? > She went off on me, > saying I was dishonest and saying that the topic of exes could never > come up again if we wanted to stay married. Well, I did read down to the end of your post where you requested there be no 'tough love' responses but I have to say I'm feeling very sympathetic towards your wife at the moment. You are not behaving like a trustworthy person, at all. Can you not see that? > For several years, I have lived without the friendship of many people > whom I valued very much because AT ONE TIME, we had been intimate and > my wife wasn't comfortable. I can understand my wife's feelings, but > at the same time, I feel a huge void in my life and a longing for the > many friendships lost. And to be honest, I still wonder "what if?" > about my ex. Which do you want more, a happier life with your wife and child or to explore the possibilities of a future with a woman with whom you have an already failed relationship? > I don't know if my wife and I can make each other happy. At the same > time, I feel a huge responsibility to keep my family together and I DO > love my wife. I just don't know if I can stay married. I'm lost and > I can't bring this up without getting screamed at. Please help and if > you're going to post nasty, abusive tough-love sh.t, then don't > bother. I had enough of that in my teens. I think you should stop reaching out to friends of the opposite sex right now, especially the ones you have a romantic history with. Turn your focus back onto your relationship and start treating your wife with more kindness, respect and affection and calmly ask for her to return to counselling with you. If she won't go with you (yet) go back by yourself. Whatever are the problems which caused you two to become distant in the first place, all your actions since have been telling your wife you want to put more distance between you, not less. To me you are presenting as someone with one foot out the door and rising onto the balls of your feet in readiness for a 100 m dash into the distance. Show her that you are committed to your mariage and you want to make it work and that you think that goal is worth your patience. Do you think it's possible you've focussed on your need for sex rather than greater intimacy with your wife, through sex? Some women have awful pregnancies and are just too uncomfortable for sex. Others need to feel special and cherished to their lover to want to make love at all. What does your wife need from you? Does she get enough time to think of herself as a lover rather than hust a mother? Babies are tiring and women often need more physical energy than men to feel like having sex in the first place. How much thought have you given to the changes your wife has gone through in the last year? I think you are at a crossroads in your life, think very carefully about what sort of life you want for youself and what sort of person you want to be. I understand that you are sad and lonely but you have a lot more you could do to repair your marriage if you are willing to make a real effort to do so. Tai > Hello, I'm in my head a little too much with this one. I've been > married for several years and I have a baby, whom I completely adore [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > you're going to post nasty, abusive tough-love sh.t, then don't > bother. I had enough of that in my teens. IMHO, you've really got to consider what's important to you, and you've got make some tough decisions, but most of all, you've got to be brutally honest with yourself, and then you've also got to be totally honest with your wife, no matter where that leads. In the end, whatever negative consequences that would happen as a result of being honest will happen anyway, but only to a much more severe degree if you're dishonest. I must also say that I suspect that you may suspect what you might hear about your story, and that you already know that you don't want to hear it, and that this is why you tried to control the responses. I don't think anyone here is ever mean just for the sake of it, but rather, is simply trying to be honest. IMHO, your admitted need for validation (i.e.., flirting), plus your seemingly intense desire to remain friends with those with whom you've been intimate strikes me as something much more troubling than you may want to admit, which also may explain why you want to control the responses you get to your story. If you're such a friendly guy, and seemingly make friends so easily, then why can't you get by with making a whole new stable of friends? Why do you need the friendship of any X's? One clue as to the reason for this might be found in your seeming need to be friends with your X fiancé. The chronology of your story seems to show that your intense desire to renew your 'friendship' with her was even further intensified when you heard that she really missed you. This leads me to believe that you really ARE hoping to rekindle the more romantic aspects of that relationship. That, plus the fact that you're obviously not getting as much sex as you'd like also leads me to believe that if you do rekindle this 'friendship', the chances are fairly high that you'll have sex with her. Frankly, while your wife might or might not be ultra-sensitive to your flirtatious ways, given what you've posted here, I simply don't see how you could be trusted anyway. Now please understand that I'm not trying to be mean or nasty or tough. I'm just being as honest as I can. First of all, I'll assume that your wedding vows did not include the caveat that you'll be faithful to your wife for only so long as you think you should, and that you reserve the right to unilaterally withdraw your commitment to her without ever telling her. so now what you've got to do is to decide what kind of a man you really are. Are you the type that makes solemn vows without really meaning it, or are you the type that will adhere to them even when the going gets tough? I don't know of any other way to say this, and so I hope your feelings aren't hurt, but I do think that you've got to get your mind straight and realize that now with a child in hand, you've got to evolve to the next phase of maturity. You've got to realize that these 'friendships' are nowhere near as important as your family for as long as you decide to remain in the marriage. Friends will come and go, and really are replaceable parts, notwithstanding your attempt to set up the readers of your story with the claim that you regard friendships as all important in life. Certainly, they are important, but family is crucial, and the two do not even begin to compare. Now, if you really do want something other than what your wife can supply, then that's fine, as long as whatever you do about that is open and honest. Remember, if your child is really important to you, what you do about your current situation will be her key for how she will conduct her life. So is it that she's important for what she can do for you, or is you concern really for her and her future? SignatureNOTICE: I regard everything which anyone posts in Usenet as nothing more than a work of fiction with no basis in fact or reality whatsoever. Every comment in every one of my posts is nothing more than a useless opinion or a wild speculation, and must never be taken seriously or as having any positive value to anyone for any reasons. I never assume that there's any more to a story than what I have read, no matter what else the author or anyone else may have posted anywhere. Be advised that my remarks are that of an ignorant layperson, and no one should ever base their decisions upon them under any circumstances. > > Hello, I'm in my head a little too much with this one. I've been > > married for several years and I have a baby, whom I completely adore [quoted text clipped - 153 lines] > that my remarks are that of an ignorant layperson, and no one should > ever base their decisions upon them under any circumstances. Not hurt at all by your response. It was calm and rational. The desire to control any responses was simple... I spent a long time as a teen in therapeutic communities and thereby became convinced that tough-love therapy is frequently, if not usually, counterproductive. It often did led to further problems and I watched a friend kill himself fairly recently while still carrying the trauma of the experience. I myself had nightmares for years and still do occasionally. Vows, yes, I took them and they were serious. I just wonder how long we can try to fit a square peg into a round hole. Our marriage has NEVER been peaceful over a long term. After four-plus years, I can't help but wondering if it was a mistake. That doesn't mean I won't try. I am concerned immensely for her future, which is a big part of why it's tough to digest when she indicates how much I've hurt her in our marriage. I don't think she's entirely the victim and I think she rarely, if ever, takes responsibility for anything, but it doesn't mean I don't feel guilty or wish I'd done anything differently. Part of me wonders if we'll EVER make each other happy. Which brings me to this. I'm committed to doing the right thing and until I am thoroughly convinced otherwise, that means staying in the marriage. On Jun 26, 10:33 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > Not hurt at all by your response. It was calm and rational. The > desire to control any responses was simple... I spent a long time as a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > experience. I myself had nightmares for years and still do > occasionally. I find it often helps to explore one's own childhood, when problems arise after a baby is born. There is a possibility that some of your current problems are deeply rooted in things that happened in your childhood. Specifically, what was your own relationship with your dad like? jen > I find it often helps to explore one's own childhood, when problems > arise after a baby is born. There is a possibility that some of your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > jen He was my hero when I was young, an obnoxious obsessive-compulsive tyrant as I grew older and a good guy, but a running joke today. He was so obsessively fastidious in his ways that he drove my mom away, drove his second wife nuts and almost drove both of his kids away. Finally, he went to therapy, met a girl and got a little better. Today, we get along great, but live 3,000 miles apart... which is probably a good thing. On Jun 26, 10:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > > I find it often helps to explore one's own childhood, when problems > > arise after a baby is born. There is a possibility that some of your [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Today, we get along great, but live 3,000 miles apart... which is > probably a good thing. Sounds like you must've had a rocky childhood. You paint a picture of an obsessive-compulsive who wasn't capable of maintaining a steady relationship, one who led a volatile life filled with drama, and drove everyone close to him away. You mentioned you have OCD too, right? So my question is, do you feel that you are doomed to be your father? Are you doomed to drive your mom away, and eventually your child? That you might as well go back to the ex, since she's nutty and has mental health issues - maybe you feel that's all you deserve? jen > On Jun 26, 10:46 am, Lombardidiedi...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > jen I don't know about everything applying consciously, but I do know that I've always been very afraid of becoming my father. He just rubs so many people the wrong way. I also always felt an obligation to "save" my ex when we were together, however impossible that it was. AllYou! wrote: > <Lombardidiedin70@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1182804337.237867.307910@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >Vows, yes, I took them and they were serious. I just wonder how long >we can try to fit a square peg into a round hole. Our marriage has >NEVER been peaceful over a long term. After four-plus years, I can't >help but wondering if it was a mistake. That doesn't mean I won't >try. Whether or not you try is not the issue for me in this situation. Whether your not you're honest with your wife about any decision you make is the issue. I don't know if it's true for you, but IMO, too many people confuse a decision to end the commitment, with the decision to cheat. >I am concerned immensely for her future, which is a big part of why >it's tough to digest when she indicates how much I've hurt her in our [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I'm committed to doing the right thing and until I am thoroughly >convinced otherwise, that means staying in the marriage. Staying in the marriage is not necessarily the right thing, and it's certainly NOT the right thing for someone to lead their spouse to believe that they remain faithful, when in fact, they don't. That's just trying to have the best of both worlds at someone else's expense. > Staying in the marriage is not necessarily the right thing, and it's > certainly NOT the right thing for someone to lead their spouse to > believe that they remain faithful, when in fact, they don't. That's > just trying to have the best of both worlds at someone else's expense. Yes, and as I indicated before, cheating is not an option. By the way, she e-mailed me this morning and said she wanted a divorce because I supposedly told a friend (male), "I don't think it's going to work." What I actually said was, "I don't know if it's going to work." Which is true -- and she can't say she DOES know. But she calmed down and things are OK. >> Staying in the marriage is not necessarily the right thing, and >> it's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, and as I indicated before, cheating is not an option. That's good, but I don't think you indicated that to me, and so I'm sure I missed it. > By the way, she e-mailed me this morning and said she wanted a > divorce > because I supposedly told a friend (male), "I don't think it's going > to work." What I actually said was, "I don't know if it's go |
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