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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2007bad news - friends splitting up...
Friends of ours who've been together for nearly 20 years anounced today that they had split up. They've got an 8 yr old daughter. I've friends with the fella for about 30 years, and more recently my wife has been friendly with his wife for the last 10 years or so. We visit each others houses a couple of times a month, go out for meals together, the kids play together, we've even been on hols together. I was best man at their wedding... I knew they werent the perfect couple but I always thought they were the sort that always moaned about each other but always stayed together.... Its really upset me and made me feel down. My own marriage has been through a dodgy spell in the last six months. Luckily, its 100% times better (I hope) than it was six months ago (when we were on the verge of a split). Its still shocked me and I'm hoping it doesnt happen to us. I'm wondering whether my wife is waiting for our son to grow up a little (like my friends did) or until shes able to work fulltime and waiting for the right moment to dump me... > I'm wondering whether my wife is waiting for our son to grow up a > little (like my friends did) or until shes able to work fulltime and > waiting for the right moment to dump me... That could be.. although its not unreasonable to have momentary concerns about your world after being surprised by the collapsing world of some friends. I've been married a measly ole 8+yrs, in my late 50's; and we're already had some bumps and moments of ponder. Plus, we wonder about our son finishing HS with the grades needed for college; wonder about where our next vacation will take us and wonder what to serve for dinner when the in laws arrive next week. My point - to darn much wondering can bring about problems that otherwise are the result of natural differences and shouldn't be reason for deep concern. Yet - you're sharing a sense of vulnerability; which could mean your wife had problems with your behavior or actions in some manner speaking... So, what did you do or haven't done to worry that your marriage might fail?  SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > Friends of ours who've been together for nearly 20 years anounced > today that they had split up. They've got an 8 yr old daughter. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > little (like my friends did) or until shes able to work fulltime and > waiting for the right moment to dump me... Divorce does seem to be catching. I can't see how it would hurt to be extra attentive. Try marriagebuilders.com. > BertieBigBol...@gmail.com <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Friends of ours who've been together for nearly 20 years anounced [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Divorce does seem to be catching. I can't see how it would hurt to be > extra attentive. Try marriagebuilders.com.- I second Emma Anne's advice. You are in a good position right now -- alert enough to not take things for granted, and a with good enough relationship to work on. Talk to your wife and bring it to her attention the need to work on the health of your marriage together. Don't wait until you get to a point of no return. > Friends of ours who've been together for nearly 20 years anounced > today that they had split up. They've got an 8 yr old daughter. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > little (like my friends did) or until shes able to work fulltime and > waiting for the right moment to dump me... Well, the terrible thing about what's happening these days is that an increasingly number of people subscribe to the notion that if one partner is unhappy, and unilaterally decides that the other partner isn't making them happy, that they are justified to seek some sort of emotional or physical comfort with someone else. Some people even take this a step further and believe that because divorce is a bad thing for a kid, that for the kid's sake, the unsatisfied spouse should chose cheating over divorce. I don't know if your wife is one of those or not, but because it seems so easy to justify cheating with these lame excuses, you'd better have some serious discussions with your wife about a whole range of issues, including infidelity, and preferably in the presence of a professional. > <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > including infidelity, and preferably in the presence of a > professional. But his concern is about his wife dumping him, not cheating on him. >> <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > But his concern is about his wife dumping him, not cheating on him. To be more precise, his concern was that his wife might dump him well off into the future, but only stay with him until then because of their kid. And so that circumstance seemed relevant to the very issue that's been discussed here recently which is the relative merits of cheating vs divorce. Here we have a case where the OP is speculating that the only thing keeping his DW in the relationship is the kid. I don't think it's a huge leap to conclude that he also suspects that his wife is therefore unfulfilled in the relationship. I must admit to being surprised at the percentage of people in this group who weighed in on the side of the notion that divorce can often be the preferred of the two alternatives, and so if that's any indication of the percentage who think that way IRL, then it's not beyond reason that his DW may be one of them. As such, I was simply warning him of that possibility if, in fact, he's right about his wife's attitude toward the marriage. SignatureNOTICE: I regard everything which anyone posts in Usenet as nothing more than a work of fiction with no basis in fact or reality whatsoever. Every comment in every one of my posts is nothing more than a useless opinion or a wild speculation, and must never be taken seriously or as having any positive value to anyone for any reasons. I never assume that there's any more to a story than what I have read, no matter what else the author or anyone else may have posted anywhere. Be advised that my remarks are that of an ignorant layperson, and no one should ever base their decisions upon them under any circumstances. > >> <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > issue that's been discussed here recently which is the relative merits > of cheating vs divorce. Of course he'll read all views and take whatever he finds relevant. But if I was in his position the most important thing on my mind would be how to improve my marriage and strengthen its foundations, not how to prevent potential cheating! His post didn't indicate anything about cheating as a problem. He's scared that his marriage will break up, and seeing his friend's marriage crumbled makes the possibility more real to him. To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an already fragile situation is more harmful than helpful. They need positive thinking to work towards getting closer and solving the problems that they already have, not adding more tension and focussing on problems that *may or may not come about in the future*. > They need positive > thinking to work towards getting closer and solving the problems that > they already have, not adding more tension and focussing on problems > that *may or may not come about in the future*. You and "AllYou" have similar views, except he leans heavily on one aspect, while you lean on another. Essencially, you're both right - just pushing your equally important aspect as though it's the end all be all; which isn't the case. Try a little bit of both. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" >>They need positive >>thinking to work towards getting closer and solving the problems that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just pushing your equally important aspect as though it's the end all be > all; which isn't the case. Try a little bit of both. What do you mean by "a little bit of both"? You mean talk a little about potential affairs and a little about how to improve our relationship? It's possible that the OP will benefit from that. However, if *I* was in the situation that he has expressed (which is the only thing I know about his life), *I* wouldn't respond well if my husband brought up other potential problems (like likelihood of affairs) AT ALL. I would want us to only focus on getting closer together and improve our relationship. Of course that's what would work for *me* and the OP may need a different approach. >>>They need positive >>>thinking to work towards getting closer and solving the problems [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > together and improve our relationship. Of course that's what would > work for *me* and the OP may need a different approach. Well, for me, that would depend upon how it was brought up. I never said that he should accuse her of infidelity. > To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an > already [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they already have, not adding more tension and focussing on problems > that *may or may not come about in the future*. Given the exchanges which I've observed and in which I've participated on this subject in this NG for over a year now, I believe that a much greater percentage of people than I would ever have suspected subscribe to the notion that 'cheating' is not all that egregious if a partner comes to the unilateral decision that they are unfulfilled in their marriage. Moreover, I've seen a lot of people weigh in on the subject by saying that given two alternatives, they'd regard cheating as better than divorce when kids are involved. In fact, someone went so far as to say that because cheating would probably forestall divorce, they probably should cheat as opposed to doing nothing. What I see here is a guy who not only strongly suspects that his wife is feeling unfulfilled, but that he also suspects that she's only staying with him for the sake of the kid. And so my advice to him was simply that I believe that the sampling I saw here about how people feel about cheating may very well apply IRL, and so because he's in this situation, he should engage in a very, very serious attempt to resolve any issues with his wife that he can. I was very clear to say that I wasn't suggesting that his wife necessarily felt that way, and I was very clear to suggest that he seek counseling. Here is exactly what I said: "I don't know if your wife is one of those or not, but because it seems so easy to justify cheating with these lame excuses, you'd better have some serious discussions with your wife about a whole range of issues, including infidelity, and preferably in the presence of a professional." I respect that fact that you think ignoring the very real possibility of certain dangers is better than to raise them unless there's a very good reason to suspect that they are present, but I hope you can respect my opinion that I think it's better to understand all of the reasonably potential dangers as an added impetus to work as hard as possible to fix the marriage. I don't know why you'd comment on my comments in a way so as to suggest that I should not have made my comments, but life goes on. SignatureNOTICE: I regard everything which anyone posts in Usenet as nothing more than a work of fiction with no basis in fact or reality whatsoever. Every comment in every one of my posts is nothing more than a useless opinion or a wild speculation, and must never be taken seriously or as having any positive value to anyone for any reasons. I never assume that there's any more to a story than what I have read, no matter what else the author or anyone else may have posted anywhere. Be advised that my remarks are that of an ignorant layperson, and no one should ever base their decisions upon them under any circumstances. > > To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an > > already [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > comments in a way so as to suggest that I should not have made my > comments, Where did you read that in my words?! You snipped the part where I explicitly said: "Of course he'll read all views and take whatever he finds relevant." You should give him what you think is good advice and I'll do the same. Our comments on various views simply opens them up more and make it easier for the OP to evaluate different approaches. In this case, I see a man in distress, worrying that his wife may dump him at some point because there isn't much in their marriage to hold her except for the kids. *I* think (see emphasis!) the advice that he needs is how to improve his marriage and eliminate the sources of discontentment, instead of a discussion about the relative merits of various actions should she remain unfulfilled and unhappy. But as I said (more than once), this is only my view. That means If *I* were in the position of his wife, and wanted to save my marriage, I would need my husband to focus on making the marriage more loving and healthy, instead of bringing the concern about potential affair to the table. *I* can't imagine feeling warm and loving towards my husband if he showed concern about the risk of an affair (by me or himself). It would be an obstacle to creating the positive, trusting, and loving environment that I would need for feeling closer to him and working on our marriage. Of course this may only be me, but I think he needs to hear it because it's possible that his wife, too, would react to such a discussion the way I would. If she's anything like me, your advice would push her out the door faster. If she is more like you and different from me, she may see the light and make sure to not stay in the marriage and fall into the trap of an affair, if she remains unfulfilled. Obviously he is the only one who knows her and should be able to figure out what is appropriate. >> > To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an >> > already [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Where did you read that in my words?! "To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an already fragile situation is more harmful than helpful." I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but that does seem to imply that you think my advice was more harmful than helpful. Was I wrong in making that inference? > You snipped the part where I > explicitly said: "Of course he'll read all views and take whatever [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'll do the same. Our comments on various views simply opens them up > more and make it easier for the OP to evaluate different approaches. > In this case, I see a man in distress, worrying that his wife may > dump [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > discontentment, instead of a discussion about the relative merits of > various actions should she remain unfulfilled and unhappy. I *do* understand that's how you feel, and yes, I see the emphasis, although I'm confused about why you thought you needed to emphasize it, or that you needed to emphasize the emphasis. That seems a little rude to me, especially when it wasn't me who criticized your advice in the first place. It seems to me that if anyone needs to emphasize that they are simply giving their opinion, it's the person who's being taken to task for simply giving their opinion, not the person who's criticizing someone's opinion. What do you think? > But as I said (more than once), this is only my view. I'm still confused here. The implication of stressing that you're only giving your view is that somehow, you feel that I've taken you to task for giving your view, and if I've done that in any way, I guess I'll ask you the same question that you asked me, which is "Where did you read that in my words?!" I've said over and over again that I respect your opinion, and only that it was my wish that you'd respect mine. How you could interpret that as suggesting that your opinion is any more than an opinion is beyond me, but I'm not very bright. > That means If > *I* were in the position of his wife, and wanted to save my [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > such > a discussion the way I would. I feel that I must stress yet once again here that I understand your opinion, and what's more than that, I respect it. It almost seems as though you're offended that I do not agree with it, or that you think I'm trying to shove my opinion down your throat, or that I've rejected or dismissed your opinion. Ironically, not only have I not done any of those things, and not only have I explicitally said the opposite, but that between the two of us, you are the one who has done that about mine. I find that interesting. > If she's anything like me, your advice would push her out the door > faster. If she is more like you and different from me, she may see [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > one > who knows her and should be able to figure out what is appropriate. Well, I want to say once again that I respect your opinion, even though I have difficulty understanding how you think you can know how I'd react (i.e., "if she's like you, she'd...."). Frankly, I think you're misunderstanding my opinion, but I think, given your last couple of posts to me, you'd take any further thoughts I'd have on the subject much too personally, and I'd rather avoid any animosity which could surface between us. Suffice to say that I understood your opinion the first time that you stated it, and that I've understood it all of the other times that you stated it, and that I'm not aware of ever criticizing your opinion, or of suggesting that it was any more than an opinion, of even being offended that you chose to specifically suggest that I should not have given mine (i.e., more harmful than helpful). I'll simply leave it that I disagree not only with your opinion of the situation, but I also disagree that my opinion was more hurtful than harmful. I think the more we understand the potential pitfalls of having unresolved issues in the marriage, the more urgency we'll have to resolve them. Thank you for your opinions of my opinions. > "Nellie" <ellie_fi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message [..] > >> I respect that fact that you think ignoring the very real > >> possibility [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > think my advice was more harmful than helpful. Was I wrong in making > that inference? Ah, yes. I understand now. To me there is a fundamental difference between disagreeing with a view, and even finding it a harmful advice (if taken), and believing that it should not be expressed. So yes, based on my view of the situation, I think that if the OP took your advice it would be more harmful than helpful. However, in no way do I believe that you shouldn't have offered it. Quite the contrary, I think it's important that all different views are offered, because I am well aware that not everyone thinks like me. Something that may work well for me might be the absolute wrong approach for someone else (and vice versa). You expressed what is a good advice in your mind. If the OP's wife's mind works more like yours than mine (and that's what I meant when I said if she's more like you), it means that your proposed approach is better for them than mine. The OP is the only one in the position to make that decision. As for criticizing your opinion, I honestly believe that this is the forum for expressing, examining, and criticizing opinions. It's through this exercise that people can polish their own views and gain deeper understanding of what may or may not be useful in practice. I don't, in anyway, see criticizing an opinion as offensive, and certainly don't feel offended if my views are criticized. So it's with that spirit that I comment on anyone's views here. Aside from that, if my emphasis has come across as rude, I am sorry. I didn't intended it that way. My goal was to emphasize that what I see as "the right approach" is based on my view of the world, and I don't think it's a universal truth that applies to everyone. > Aside from that, if my emphasis has come across as rude, I am sorry. > I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > don't > think it's a universal truth that applies to everyone. Thank you, and please know that I agree with you that there is no universal truth which applies, which is why I wanted to emphasize that I respected your opinion when I expressed my disagreement with it. > > "Nellie" <ellie_fi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > they already have, not adding more tension and focussing on problems > that *may or may not come about in the future*. I dont think my wife cheating is a problem, but you are correct, seeing my friends marriage go this way has made the possibility more real to me. Like I said, we have had problems, and, although things are much better its not all perfect. And yes, I am aware of that... On Jun 29, 10:32 am, "BertieBigBol...@gmail.com" <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote: [..] > > To me introducing the non-existence issue of cheating into an already > > fragile situation is more harmful than helpful. They need positive [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Like I said, we have had problems, and, although things are much > better its not all perfect. And yes, I am aware of that...- As I said in my first comment, you are already ahead of many people with troubled marriage. You *know* there is a problem, haven't reached a point of no return, hopefully haven't piled up so much hurt feeling and resentment to make it difficult to work on the problems, and want to save your marriage. If your wife is smart, she, too, would want to save and improve the marriage. Take Emma Anne's advice with marriagebuilder. Talk to your wife with a positive view of your marriage and tell her that if both of you desire you can turn your marriage to a healthy and fulfilling union. Take charge of your life and steer it in the right direction. Good luck... On Jun 28, 7:11 am, "BertieBigBol...@gmail.com" <BertieBigBol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Friends of ours who've been together for nearly 20 years anounced > today that they had split up. They've got an 8 yr old daughter. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > little (like my friends did) or until shes able to work fulltime and > waiting for the right moment to dump me... Posted this before, never showed. Just come out and ask your wife. *Babe - that is pretty crappy what happened with so and so. Knew they had issues but I thought they could work it out. I love you and hope you know that any issues we might have I will do my damnedest to work them out with you. You feel the same?* (insert whatever manly lingo you use) Can't predict the future, but it is silly to wonder and worry about how she is feeling now. Vickie > On Jun 28, 7:11 am, "BertieBigBol...@gmail.com" > > Can't predict the future, but it is silly to wonder and worry about > how she is feeling now. Sorry BBB, I didn't mean silly. I just mean you shouldn't put yourself through the *what if*. V |
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