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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / August 2007Bad Marriage - Need Help
Hi, I dont know where to start. But I need help. I am totally lost and am on a verge of a breakdown. So, I have been married to this person I call my husband for the last 9 years after dating for 2 yrs. His parents never wanted us to marry and so during the dating years we always had tiffs. I thought it was because he was under too much pressure from his parents side. And other times he used to be on the computer playing games. I should have known then but I was blinded by "love". Anyways we moved to US and got married in the US. And immediately I came to know that he was a workaholic with a very short and high temper. I took days for him to cool down after a fight. And he rarely enjoyed spending time with me. He could and still fights on the simplest of things which are not even reasons for a fight. But being a fool and extremely immature at the age of 22 I decided to hang on. Also since there were no reasons for our fights my parents used to think I am making a hill out of a mole and never supported my decision to leave him. Being in a far off country (initially US and now a Canadian Immigrant), I did not have any close friends or family and was unable to take any firm steps. So all this continued and in the process I have changed complelety and dont know who I am and dont even recognize my husband. In the mean time 4 yrs back during some softer moments, we decided to have a baby and now have a 4 yr old. During the same time I decided to be at home with the baby and left my high paying software job. But even during my pregnancy and after having a baby his behaviour has not changed. He still has that short and extremely high temper. Now I am really worried about my baby and dont want all this to affect him. I am tired of telling him to go for counselling. Nothing is working and I am thinking of ....I dont know what. Please help > Now I am really worried about my baby and dont want all this to affect > him. I am tired of telling him to go for counselling. Nothing is > working and I am thinking of ....I dont know what. > Please help IMO, your best bet would be to start by getting counseling for yourself.. so you can work out what it is you think is best for you and yourself given the situation you have. It would be good if he went to marriage counseling with you, but that should be separate from your own counseling. As for his going to individual counseling, it is darn near impossible to get someone who doesn't see there is a problem to go, whether one needs it or not. You can't force him, but maybe if he sees you are serious about making positive changes for yourself and your baby, he might see that he'll need to move forward with you towards a more positive change for the whole family. Good luck. On Aug 27, 6:37 pm, kanchanra...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi, > I dont know where to start. But I need help. I am totally lost and am [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > working and I am thinking of ....I dont know what. > Please help I agree with Calliope about counseling - go for yourself, and *perhaps* he will find value in it, too. However, I am much more dubious about his potential for change. Anger is a characteristic of manipulative, controlling men (and women). It is very likely that you gravitated to this sort of a person in order to recreate, or resolve, some similar issue from your childhood. Having finally awakened to the truth of your situation, it is time for you to develop an exit strategy. Having someone like your husband around is a good way to warp your child, if that hasn't happened already. (This is what happened in my family of origin, and the consequences can last a lifetime.) In counseling, you need to figure out not only how to handle this situation, but seek the reasons you are in such a relationship in the first place. To neglect that is to doom your future relationships to a repeat of the current situation. A word of warning, as you begin to withdraw, expect your husband to become even angrier, more controlling, threatening, and potentially violent. You will need to safeguard your child and your self. And PLEASE, do NOT submit to the delusional fantasy that you can love someone enough to change them - you can't, nor can anyone else. Best of luck! You will most certainly need it. Larry G. > I agree with Calliope about counseling - go for yourself, and > *perhaps* [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Anger is a characteristic of manipulative, controlling men (and > women). I think people *can* change, but only if *they* want to and are willing to put the work into making it happen. > It is very likely that you gravitated to this sort of a > person > in order to recreate, or resolve, some similar issue from your > childhood. Whenever I hear this, I wonder what ill winds are forming up ahead, in my children's lives due to the disasterous divorce their father and I had.. *sigh*... On Aug 27, 9:24 pm, "-Calliope-" <calliope123rem...@remove.gmail.com> wrote: > > I agree with Calliope about counseling - go for yourself, and > > *perhaps* [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > children's lives due to the disasterous divorce their father and I had.. > *sigh*... While it is true that divorce often has a devastating effect on children, it is also true that living in a dysfunctional family can have even worse, more insideous results. The best option is to prevent bad marriages in the first place. Hope you have better luck next time. But please check out your relationship motivations before commiting again. Cheers, Larry G. >> > It is very likely that you gravitated to this sort of a >> > person [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > worse, > more insideous results. But see.. my ex and I managed to bury our problems not just from them, but from ourselves as well. He boasts that he 'faked' being happy, managing to fool me till he was good and ready to leave. Our daughter was the apple of his eye.. she was *daddy's little girl* and it abruptly ended the day he announced he was divorcing me.. he no longer had time to sit and watch their favorite tv show at 7Pm, as had been their routine.. he was, up until the divorce announcement, a very involved father. And I tried, I really did try to keep the stereotypical divorce situation from happening, going so far as to agree to an extremely unusual custody arrangement to keep him in their lives. It was all for naught.. his wife (affair partner) stated emphatically (and in writing!) that she did *not* like having to schedule time around them; she resented every minute they took him away from her. Add a couple more years of crap and you get what's happened now. DD called her dad twice the weekend of fathers day. He not only didn't return those calls that weekend (but did call our son), he has not talked to her YET. And here we are almost Sept!. No, the kids were not suffering as there were no outward appearances of dysfunction.. The ex and I didn't argue, we didn't ignore each other.. none of that. We just.......... stopped being anything but parents. They have definitely dealt with worse since the announcement of the divorce (at least insofar as their father being absent from their life.. as well as financially)..... prior to that, they had the life that just about any kid could want.. an involved SAHM, an involved father.. parents who were devoted to them.. they went to camp.. we went camping.. we took trips.. they had an active life, including music lessons (which they LOVED).. their activities with parents involved in the parent booster association. I somehow managed to keep as much of that going as possible, but it was not without help from others. Even though he was making well over six figures (not including his wife's six figure salary)... and I made almost nothing (having been home for 16 years cuz he wanted the "Good Corporate Wife" long past the time the kids went back to school).. my children have had to sometimes rely on the goodness of others to participate in some things because I was lucky to keep a roof over their heads- such as one coach who brought our DD on the team without her paying the normally required fees, things like that.. And in the outskirts of Boston, doing this is *not* an easy task, I might add. > The best option is to prevent bad marriages > in the first place. Oh.. thank you. I didn't realize this... *sigh*... FWIW.. once he came clean about his being unhappy, I begged him to go to counseling with me.. sure we didn't have the perfect marriage, but I was more than willing to try to fix the problems. > Hope you have better luck next time. Believe me, I have a man who is 10 times the man my ex was.. Kind, generous with his love and affection, not just for me, but with my children as well. One of the best people one would ever want to know... > But please > check out your relationship motivations before commiting again. For pete sake, Larry.. I was 20 when I became engaged with my ex, married at 21.. we were married for 20 years... I'm in my late 40's now.. I can safely say I've checked out my "relationship motivations".... (I know you meant well when you said this, but it comes across as at least mildly patronizing, at least to me it does.) On Aug 28, 6:34 pm, "-Calliope-" <calliope123rem...@remove.gmail.com> wrote: > >> > It is very likely that you gravitated to this sort of a > >> > person [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > you meant well when you said this, but it comes across as at least mildly > patronizing, at least to me it does.) Please forgive me for sounding patronizing. I was not aware of your particular situation, and was writing as though it was a more typical case presented on this newsgroup - a sequence of compulsive relationships centered around common dysfunctional themes, and generally ending in misery, divorce or similar disaster. I am very sorry to hear of your situation which lead to your divorce. To abruptly change one's relationships with both partner and children is mean, treacherous and unconscionable. I should imagine that the affair, his lover and mid-life hysteria had much to do with such a villainous betrayal of his family. For what its worth, their marriage is likely to be a hell of their own making. The woman will continually fret that the cad will do the same to her as he did to you, and will become overbearing in her attempts to control him to ensure he doesn't. Eventually, your ex may recognize the guilt growing within him, and resent his new (trophy ?) wife for seducing him from the family he made with you. They will likely settle into mutual recrimination, manipulation and anger; or resign themselves into an uneasy quiet filled with longing and depression. For them, it is a no-win situation. I am glad that you have found a new mate in your life. Finding a better man will provide a valuable lesson for your children that they too can survive the betrayal and humiliation, and come out the better for it. ~~~ So much for the fluffy positive spin, now let's get down to the nitty- gritty, if you're willing? You say that your new mate is ten times the man your ex was? I hope he is, but really, how do you *know* this to be the case? You were married to someone you initially thought was good. How long did it take you to start recognizing (and burying) the problems you referred to? Have you known your new partner as long as you knew your spouse when he started to show his truer nature? As for the being "perfect parents" for the children, one of the gifts (?) parents bestow on their children is to act as role models for marital relationships. This is quite separate from being role models of good parenting. You may have hid the problems from you and your ex, but children are really quite perceptive and probably picked up on them while you two were still deep in denial. (If you don't believe me, ask them.) You also state that you have checked out your relationship motivations, but didn't state what they were. The lessons we learn and situations we experience as children and young adults hold a powerful sway over the rest of our lives. It is still quite possible that the issues and motivations driving your first marriage are still at play now. While I would not ask you to identify them on a public forum, I would invite you to verify (articulate and confirm) them with a professional counselor. Like most people (you and me included) we are notoriously able to kid ourselves into believing that we are more aware and in control of our lives than we really are. Given your defensiveness about raising this issue, and your stated coping mechanism of burying problems out of your awareness, it seems that this problem is not really resolved to your satisfaction either. (The intent here is not to make you fearful of the issue, but only bring it to your focused awareness.) Best of luck, and hopefully not too patronizing this time. Larry G. > I am glad that you have found a new mate in your life. Finding a > better man will provide a valuable lesson for your children that they > too can survive the betrayal and humiliation, and come out the > better for it. Though this is very true.. it was not the purpose of my 'finding' a better man.. AAMOF.. I'm still amazed at how things happened. > ~~~ > > So much for the fluffy positive spin, now let's get down to the nitty- > gritty, if you're willing? Well, I will give it a shot, but I will let you right now, that if I get snarky sh.t tossed at me from the sidebar (I'm not talking about you)... I will stop posting in reply.. > You say that your new mate is ten times the man your ex was? Yep! > I hope he is, but really, how do you *know* this to be the case? Because I see how he is.. how he treats not just me and not just my family, but I see how he is with the people he interacts with all around him.. and how they react to him.. > You were married to someone you initially thought was good. > How long did it take you to start recognizing (and burying) the > problems you referred to? I don't know how long it was when we both started burying things.. I remained in major denial where my ex was concerned for several years post separation & divorce.. It has been through therapy as much as anything else that I was finally able to admit the dynamics that went on in our marriage. > Have you known your new partner as > long as you knew your spouse when he started to show his truer > nature? I've known my new partner for seven years. I knew my ex for five years prior to marriage.. I think the difference is at ages 21 and 22 when my ex and I married we were not fully formed adults.. we were still far too young and immature and hadn't grown to be the people we were meant to be. > As for the being "perfect parents" for the children, one of the > gifts (?) parents bestow on their children is to act as role [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > perceptive and probably picked up on them while you two > were still deep in denial. (If you don't believe me, ask them.) I don't disagree... > You also state that you have checked out your relationship > motivations, but didn't state what they were. The lessons > we learn and situations we experience as children and young > adults hold a powerful sway over the rest of our lives. It is still > quite possible that the issues and motivations driving your first > marriage are still at play now. Considering the situation at hand, I'm loathe to go into details more than I have already... I'm not willing to subject myself or my SO to more harrassment than we have subjected ourselves to already. I will say that early in our relationship we did have problems with our actions and reactions mirroring stuff from our former marriages (he was married a LONG time.. longer than any I've ever known that has been divorced)... The difference is we talked about those *when* it happened.. and we talked and we talked and we still talk about our relationship and we both are aware of the pitfalls that happen.. I'm not saying we're perfect, far from it.. > While I would not ask you to identify them on a public forum, > I would invite you to verify (articulate and confirm) them with a > professional counselor. Like most people (you and me > included) we are notoriously able to kid ourselves into believing > that we are more aware and in control of our lives than we really > are. I spent several years with a professional counselor after my separation and divorce, as have both our children. > Given your defensiveness about raising this issue, and your > stated coping mechanism of burying problems out of your > awareness, it seems that this problem is not really resolved to > your satisfaction either. (The intent here is not to make you > fearful of the issue, but only bring it to your focused awareness.) Hmmm.. I didn't feel any defensiveness in my original post to you, nor do I here now.. I felt a bit of irritation at being spoken to like a child, but also felt that it was just your style and you didn't intend to come across that way.. I tried to use a bit of humor to get you to see how it might come across.. perhaps that humor failed. I used to think you a bit of a jerk, to be perfectly honest.. but I almost see it as more of an earnestness about you... I dunno.. that isn't the word I'm looking for but it's 1:15am and I should've been in bed a while ago.. I guess what i"m saying is that perhaps you're not a jerk, just... well, something else.. > Best of luck, and hopefully not too patronizing this time. :-) I have to say, I got a bit of a kick out of seeing the two sides of you! On Aug 29, 12:17 am, "-Calliope-" <calliope123rem...@remove.gmail.com> wrote: > > I am glad that you have found a new mate in your life. Finding a > > better man will provide a valuable lesson for your children that they [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > :-) I have to say, I got a bit of a kick out of seeing the two sides of > you! Again, please forgive my lack of tact and finesse in communicating about such personal issues. While I don't consider my writing to be "talking down to" you or others as if you were children, I am aware that there are a number of factors which influence what I write: - many of these issues I've had first-hand experience with, or direct observation of couples in similar situations. The memories and distress which resulted have left me with a passionate distaste for the attitudes, behaviors and thinking errors which contributed to those problems. - I too have been through a lot of counseling, and read extensively on the issues I comment on. In trying to convey a lot of information and advice in a relatively few words. This terseness can be perceived as sanctimonious, arrogant, pretentiousness or any other adjective of high-mindedness you might care to add. - more often than not, I am responding to the information actually given, not what the author actually knows or has experienced, but did not mention. This results in some assumptions which are sometimes wrong (such as how long you had been married to your current husband, and whether you had ever invested in counseling.) - There are times when I simply cannot accurately articulate the ideas I wish to express. Opting instead for the words which come to mind can lead to misunderstandings, which are entirely my own fault. Thank you for pointing out your perceptions of my writings and advice. I shall try to do better in the future. Cheers, Larry G. >> :-) I have to say, I got a bit of a kick out of seeing the two sides of >> you! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > as sanctimonious, arrogant, pretentiousness or any other adjective > of high-mindedness you might care to add. Both of your points I can understand.. but I do think you might widen your audience a bit if you soften your comments. Just a thought, is all. > - more often than not, I am responding to the information actually > given, not what the author actually knows or has experienced, but > did not mention. This results in some assumptions which are > sometimes wrong For me, after posting here in ASM for close to something like 5 years and ASD for several years before with some significant overlap, it's hard to decide how much to repeat for new readers without annoying the long time readers as well, you know? > (such as how long you had been married to your current > husband, :-) I'm currently single, but in a long term committed relationship.... we've been friends for 7 years a couple for over 4 of those. > and whether you had ever invested in counseling.) I do understand your point. > - There are times when I simply cannot accurately articulate the > ideas I wish to express. Opting instead for the words which > come to mind can lead to misunderstandings, which are entirely > my own fault. Gotcha. > Thank you for pointing out your perceptions of my writings and > advice. I shall try to do better in the future. > > Cheers, > Larry G. Cheers to you too. I answered the other part, but accidently clipped some stuff below, so I've gone back and added this.... > On Aug 28, 6:34 pm, "-Calliope-" <calliope123rem...@remove.gmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > affair, his lover and mid-life hysteria had much to do with such a > villainous betrayal of his family. Yes, I'm pretty sure you're correct there. > For what its worth, their marriage is likely to be a hell of their own > making. The woman will continually fret that the cad will do the > same to her as he did to you, and will become overbearing in her > attempts to control him to ensure he doesn't. She was also engaged in an affair on her husband as well.. her husband moved out of the house and mine moved in (on his non-custody days, anyway) > Eventually, your ex > may recognize the guilt growing within him, and resent his new > (trophy ?) wife hehehe.. Oh, she's the boobie prize<G>... (and no, not what anyone would ever call a Trohphy wife, at all..) > for seducing him from the family he made with you. > They will likely settle into mutual recrimination, manipulation and > anger; or resign themselves into an uneasy quiet filled with longing > and depression. For them, it is a no-win situation. I guess outside of how it affects the kids, I have no sympathy for them or their problems.. nor do I really even care. > I am glad that you have found a new mate in your life. Finding a > better man will provide a valuable lesson for your children that they > too can survive the betrayal and humiliation, and come out the > better for it. This is quite true. Glad to have the dialog Larry.. I feel I kind of 'get' where you are coming from more, whereas I didn't before. I apologize for previous comments I've made to you. > I answered the other part, but accidently clipped some stuff below, so > I've gone back and added this.... [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > coming from more, whereas I didn't before. I apologize for previous > comments I've made to you. Thanks for adding the previously omitted response here, and the extended dialog elsewhere in this thread. Your current relationship gives me hope in my own post-divorce recovery (although in my case, the divorce was definitely my own fault.) FWIW, I don't know that apologies are necessary. I've had more than one person tell me that I am (was) an a.shole or a jerk. However, others have offered praise as well, which indicates that I'm not a full-time anything. Cheers, Larry G. >> Glad to have the dialog Larry.. I feel I kind of 'get' where you are >> coming from more, whereas I didn't before. I apologize for previous [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > in my own post-divorce recovery (although in my case, the divorce was > definitely my own fault.) But as you've said, you're actively working to make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes (and really.. with so many out there to make, why not go out and find new ones instead! ;-P ).. I do think there is a danger in going too far.. in perhaps analyzing the life out of any new relationship you might have, so I would suggest you take care not to do that either.. > FWIW, I don't know that apologies are necessary. I've had more than > one > person tell me that I am (was) an a.shole or a jerk. However, others > have > offered praise as well, which indicates that I'm not a full-time > anything. Oh.. you mean.. your human, after all, huh? Welcome to the club. :-) > your You're.. You're, You're, You're, You're, You're, You're, You're.... consider that my penance! > Hi, > I dont know where to start. But I need help. I am totally lost and am [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > working and I am thinking of ....I dont know what. > Please help Here is the thing: you are unhappy with him, and _you_ are telling _him_ to go to counseling. Even if you are right that he is the problem, and he needs to be fixed, him going to counseling won't help unless _he_ thinks he is the problem and needs to be fixed. I think you are much better off in joint counseling where you have a chance as a couple to address the fact that _you_ are unhappy with how things are. I would also recommend visiting marriagebuilders.com, and reading "Fall in love, stay in love" together. > Hi, > I dont know where to start. But I need help. I am totally lost and am > on a verge of a breakdown. I'm so sorry. Your family is far away but do you now have any friends close by to turn to for practical as well as emotional support? > So, I have been married to this person I call my husband for the last > 9 years after dating for 2 yrs. His parents never wanted us to marry [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > working and I am thinking of ....I dont know what. > Please help How urgent is this? That is, are you worried your husband might hurt your child if he's left alone with him? Or you? If they are not immediate concerns and you are mostly worried about having a permanently stressful and unpleasant environment for your son go for counselling yourself. Your husband might even start to go along to but even if he doesn't you need the help to work out what to do. Consider going back to work, as well, at least part time to give yourself more options for your future. |
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