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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / September 2007Thoughts on This Book?
_If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ http://tinyurl.com/2qpagf This is the book that Chewy's counselor gave him to read 3 or 4 weeks into his sessions. He's about halfway through it. I just read it in about 4 hours. (I have one of those "nothing to do" days, so I picked it up off the dashboard, where he'd left it.) I find the concepts interesting. The things Gary Smalley suggests are things that I think would prove helpful to a relationship. But... Will he apply them? If he *does* apply them, will it be "for real?" And will it stick? The answers to those three questions will be based on his motivation. Only he truly knows what his motivation is, and only he knows how strong that motivation is. I only know that he's no longer yelling loudly, but he's still condescending and derogatory. And he still doesn't hear it when he's being that way. A couple days ago, we were talking about something as he was driving me back to where I'm staying. As we pulled in the driveway and continued talking, I started to voice my thoughts on what we were discussing. (Maybe the truck and needed repairs? I don't remember now.) I got only a few words out when he interrupted me with a condescending response to what he *thought* I was going to say. I have to find a way to work past all this - all the pain, the fear, the tears - if there's ever going to be any hope on my end to heal our marriage. And I have to figure out a way to learn to trust that he's really trying to change, not trying to play me. Right now, I feel like that's exactly what he was doing 8 years ago - playing me, playing on my Mother Hen tendencies, working me to get someone to take care of him and his children, working me to take on that "Mother" role for him. I don't know how to get past that. Kitten >_If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >someone to take care of him and his children, working me to take on >that "Mother" role for him. I don't know how to get past that. Well, let's think "best spin" for a minute here. Let's suppose that he is really, truly trying. The habit of being condescending and derogatory is a hard one to break... I grew up with it, everyone in my family is like that, and mostly they are pretty ok (including me) but if you hit them on a bad day/moment, all of that meanness and sarcasm and so on come right back out. Including me... except that I try very, very hard not to do that, and it has taken me a decade to get good at it. He's been working on something like this for a couple of weeks. It would be a tad unrealistic to think that he would change that pattern overnight, *especially* with someone with whom this pattern of dealing is very ingrained. The person who brings that out in me absolutely more than anyone else is my ex. So I wouldn't expect too much too soon. Let's think "worst spin" for a minute here, too... two versions. One version really is that he's playing you, consciously or subconsciously. The other version is that he isn't, but that he's simply not capable of that much change... and you might well not be able to live with a slightly improved but still pretty nasty version. Either way, I don't think I'd be trying to trust that he's not playing you... not just yet. It doesn't gain you anything. I think I'd be working on getting some healthy level of detachment from whatever he does, which would stand you in good stead whichever way this works out. So... did his car get fixed? > On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:26:54 -0700, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > So I wouldn't expect too much too soon. I know that change takes a long time to be real. But it would be nice if, when he did it, I could ask, "Please don't talk to me that way," and he'd accept that he'd slipped back into it, take a breath, and try to stop - instead of getting even worse while telling me he's not being condescending. > Let's think "worst spin" for a minute here, too... two versions. One > version really is that he's playing you, consciously or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > does, which would stand you in good stead whichever way this works > out. I'm working on it. Lots of deep breathing techniques. A bit of doing things with friends. (Went with a group of friends to play pool again last night. Someone else was driving, so...) > So... did his car get fixed? Nope. They fixed what he'd said was the problem, then they found more problems, then they found that he'd ruined the engine completely. A new engine would cost more than the car's worth. So I told one of my buddies to go through the cars he's been collecting to turn into street racers and find one that would be good for me. If I get a car, I'll just give Chewy the suburban. Kitten On Sep 22, 11:05 am, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe <st_brigids_gate_f...@yahoo.com> wrote: If I get a car, > I'll just give Chewy the suburban. You already GAVE him the suburban the day his car went into the shop. IIRC except for the few hours that you had it when you dropped him off for the night shift it's been in his possession and hes had sole use of it since then. Of course hes been driving you to work and picking you up 5 days a week but he gets gas money.....enough to cover fulll use of the truck for himself and his daughter for doing you that favor doesnt he? Do you seriously think that he considers that truck anyone but his at thi point in time? Kitten, if you were to run this out as a math equation youd see how often you come out on the short end in all your ealings with him. Take care of yourself. He takes great care to see he's taken care of.....by you! Grace > On Sep 22, 11:05 am, Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Take care of yourself. He takes great care to see he's taken care > of.....by you! I know. It's an equation that's been glaring me in the face for 8 years. I've been well aware of it all along, but I was willing to take the gamble on him. It was a choice I made knowing full well it was a gamble. <shrug> Now I'm having to deal with the very real probability that I lost on this one. Kitten >> _If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ >> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > Either way, I don't think I'd be trying to trust that he's not playing > you... not just yet. I think you meant to say that that "he's playing you" above (?). But I agree with what I think is your basic premise. I wouldn't assume that he is deliberately and consciously "playing you" like some sort of evil demon, but rather that is only what it may seem like, but, (bottom line), he just hasn't been able, or really willing, to make the changes. But that is more about him, and his own inabilities, not that he is deliberately out to "play you" (IMO). So, in fairness to him, I see some distinction there. However, all that being said, the end result is that he hasn't changed all that much, and maybe that is all that is really important here - in the final analysis. He just may not be capable of much more. > It doesn't gain you anything. I think I'd be > working on getting some healthy level of detachment from whatever he > does, which would stand you in good stead whichever way this works > out. > > So... did his car get fixed? > _If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > loudly, but he's still condescending and derogatory. And he still > doesn't hear it when he's being that way. Stephanie gave a really good response to this, but I have something to add that might be worth talking about in counseling. I can believe he doesn't hear it. I can also believe he doesn't mean to be condescending or derogatory. _Regardless_ of whether he is being condescending or derogatory, if he care about your marriage, it is a problem (for him, I mean) if you perceive him as being condescending or derogatory. So rather than arguing about whether he is _really_ being condescending or derogatory, it would benefit him to realize that you are perceiving _something_ that is having a negative effect on you, and to just try to change it. I doubt you can get him to realize this in the middle of an argument, but it might be a good thing to bring up during a joint counseling session. > A couple days ago, we were talking about something as he was driving > me back to where I'm staying. As we pulled in the driveway and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > someone to take care of him and his children, working me to take on > that "Mother" role for him. I don't know how to get past that. I think he is probably relating to in the same dysfunctional way that he has related to all the women in his life. That doesn't mean he is trying to play you, but it also means there is no more reason to trust his follow through than there has ever been. Never suspect malice when incompetence or stupidity suffice! On Sep 22, 3:17 pm, Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovet...@gmail.com> wrote: > > _If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Stephanie gave a really good response to this, but I have something to > add that might be worth talking about in counseling. She did? It didn't show up on Google. :-/ > I can believe he doesn't hear it. I can also believe he doesn't mean > to be condescending or derogatory. _Regardless_ of whether he is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > but it might be a good thing to bring up during a joint counseling > session. I agree that he probably doesn't *intend* to be condescending and derogatory. I've told him that, as well. I think it's just habit, and that he doesn't realize he's slipping into it. > > A couple days ago, we were talking about something as he was driving > > me back to where I'm staying. As we pulled in the driveway and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Never suspect malice when incompetence or stupidity suffice! I've never suspected malice, per se, with him. Just subconscious habits he doesn't even notice he has. Doing whatever it takes, at a subconscious level, to get whatever it is that he's needing, with no awareness of how it is affecting the people around him. Kitten > But... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And will it stick? If I take the above questions along with your past posts on related subjects; in conjunction with what appears to be your expectations regarding his behavior, the effects of counseling on him and you; failure is the only result. Your "trust" issues appear overwhelmingly deep. To such an extent - it doesn't sound as though you can get past your issues - let alone the issues you have your SO. >I have to find a way to work past all this - all the pain, the fear, >the tears - if there's ever going to be any hope on my end to heal our >marriage. And I have to figure out a way to learn to trust that he's >really trying to change, not trying to play me. I don't know your age; but, something tells me 40's+. If? that's in the ball park and he's in a like age range, teaching old dogs to do "NEW" emotionally healthy instinctive tricks can take the rest of your lives. I'd suggest you drop this ball, and go off on your own to work on your issues. Because until your issues are resolved to such a point they can stay in a closet - you'll constantly find behaviors in others that will bring yours to bear in some unhealthy manner.  SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > _If_Only_He_Knew:_What_No_Woman_Can_Resist_ > > http://tinyurl.com/2qpagf I read the excerpt and I thought Smalley's approach would work well on me. Mind you, I thought it would work on my husband as well. I think it's true that most of us will respond to warmth, respectful treatment and being heard by our partners. But as you say further down, it's easier to believe in that continuing when there's already a habit of it and it's not a new behaviour with no guarantee it will be adopted permanently. I wonder what Chewy thinks he has to give up if he bends to you? He must feel he's protecting himself and part of that could be from the habit of misunderstanding you currently have with each other. I don't know how true this is, Kitten, but I have the impression he's staked out a boundary line with you firmly on the other side and he fears what will happen if he lest you cross over. So somehow he feels what you want for you and him is not what he wants and is resisting being drawn in. And it may not be there's anything wrong with your set of desires, his past history with women suggests his resistance is a personalty trait of his. I wonder if your counselling sessions could focus on the areas you can agree on and are happy about and then move outwards from there to the more difficult and contentious issues of opposed behaviours or actions and goals. Neither of you seem to have much trust for the other and probably both for good reasons, if uneven numbers of them - objectively or otherwise. > This is the book that Chewy's counselor gave him to read 3 or 4 weeks > into his sessions. He's about halfway through it. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Kitten |
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