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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / November 2007Cant believe I've been so dull - advice needed
Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she threw them back), and then I stepped up and raised my fists... Fortunately, nothing happened. Really, really stupid I know... We went through a bad patch about 10 months ago and it was looking a bit dodgy to say the least. However, since then we've been doing really well and havent had a huge argument like this since. I'm just so annoyed with myself that Iet my temper get the better of me. Any advice? I've gone to work now and my wife has gone too. I've tried apologising but I guess shes just too annoyed with me at the moment. On Nov 22, 3:45 pm, paulf...@gmail.com wrote: > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended > up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she threw them [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tried apologising but I guess shes just too annoyed with me at the > moment. Please do keep on apologising. If you are really sorry, she will see it on your face and forgive. Please don't use too many words. Tell her what you shouldn't have done like throwing trousers. That's violence. You may also apologise for provoking her. Genuinity is the key. Wives are generally very forgiving. Wish you luck and God bless your marriage. Once you forgive each other, please feel free to apologise to your kids too. It really helps the whole family bond. Best regards. > On Nov 22, 3:45 pm, paulf...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > marriage. Once you forgive each other, please feel free to apologise > to your kids too. It really helps the whole family bond. Best regards. Yeh. Not clever at all, was it? I'm really worried though.... > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. > I ended up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > has gone too. I've tried apologising but I guess shes just too > annoyed with me at the moment. Throwing something and raising your fists is a form of violence designed to intimidate and there is never any excuse for it. You can easily find youtself out of the house with a protective order and facing charges of assault for such behavior. IMHO, you need to act fast w- more than an apology... perhaps a vacation or at least a gift card to a day spa, as well as an offer to spend some $$ on marriage counselling. It you have a problem with your temper, sign up for an anger management course thru a mental health service. >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. >> I ended up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > your temper, sign up for an anger management course thru a > mental health service. Maybe so, but look at the OP's track record. Was it a hark back to 10 months ago - old habits inexplicably reasserting themselves? After 10 months of improvement, I could forgive one slip-up. Hopefully wife will, too. My "gut" is saying that wives do give credit for the 10 months, and are prepared to see this as an aberration. I would like to hear what happened that evening. Were things going "too well"? Irene Kassorla (anybody heard of her? I have a book by her - '70's era) suggests that a big argument like this is often a way of re-establishing distance when a couple get too close for comfort. In her example, the argument followed a really intimate "second honeymoon" type holiday. Many big arguments are about a little thing or "something stupid." The big issues you can discuss rationally. Doug L. > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... > Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. > We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. > Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... Let her calm down a bit. Apologize again and with sincerity. Tell her you have really tried improving and perhaps were a little complacent and this just creeped up on you. Take responsibility for your actions and tell her what you will do so it doesn't happen again. It's easy to go back to old habits, especially when tempers get hot. Hang in there!  SignatureQueenie *** Be the change you wish to see in the world *** >> Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. >> We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Hang in there! Like me, you see a winner here. The road upwards has its occasional bump. Doug L. > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... > > <paulf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Doug L. Hmmm. Well I reckon in those 10 months I have changed for the better. We dont argue about the things we used to and generally I dont get so mad either... This was really out of the blue to be honest. I'm surprised I reacted like I did because I've not done it for so long... I dont things were going "too well". Its been a hard road these last 10 months and things were starting to look back to getting on track for the last few months... I guess I need to be more careful especially about getting complacent. Just hope I havent screwed things up this once... <sniped> > IMHO, you > need to act fast w- more than an apology... perhaps a vacation > or at least a gift card to a day spa, as well as an offer to spend > some $$ on marriage counselling. From a woman's perspective - Buying a spa gift card or a vacation as an apology won't do the trick. Do something like that once you're starting to reconnect, as part of the process of reconnecting, but to do so beforehand is tatamount to trying to buy forgiveness. And don't *offer* to go to counselling. DO it. And do it with conviction. Going just to try to win your wife back won't do the trick. Do what the counselor says, work on what's going on inside yourself, focus on your end of the problems in your marriage and give your wife the space to work on her end of the problems. Take it seriously, fix the problems, or it won't work. Believe me on that. Kitten ><sniped> >> IMHO, you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >your wife the space to work on her end of the problems. Take it >seriously, fix the problems, or it won't work. Believe me on that. And along those lines... don't EVER say, let's go to counseling, I'll arrange it... and then not follow it up. (Yup, really high on the "Specific Things that Led to my Divorce" list.) > On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:58:03 -0800 (PST), Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > (Yup, really high on the "Specific Things that Led to my Divorce" > list.)- And don't tell her to arrange counseling, then get angry and yell at her when she does. Kitten > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended > up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she threw them > back), and then I stepped up and raised my fists... Fortunately, > nothing happened. > > Really, really stupid I know... Pretty assnine, actually, that you would even do such a thing. On Nov 22, 1:38 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > paulf...@gmail.com wrote: > > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Pretty assnine, actually, that you would even do such a thing. Bill, I keep thinking this, but I don't think I've ever written it - You've lived a pretty sheltered life, haven't you? Kitten > On Nov 22, 1:38 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Kitten Perhaps in some ways, yes. But in some other ways, not so much. I'm a bit careful who I associate with, although even then there have been a few misses :-) On Nov 22, 2:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 1:38 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > a bit careful who I associate with, although even then there have been a few > misses :-) Some of your comments seem beyond being careful who you associate with, like there are a lot of experiences a *lot* of people have that are completely foreign to you. Not a bad thing. Just... sheltered. Kitten > On Nov 22, 2:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Kitten Well, yes, I haven't had (*nor would I want to have*) any experiences and/or associations with abusers, serial-killers, child-molesters, rapists, wife-batterers, and the like (all of which fit in the category of *pond scum*). And I haven't worked in a prison. And I haven't been on skid row. So, yes, that is perhaps a bit sheltered. And yes, those people would indeed be foreign to me, and for that, I'm glad. (And as for those who choose to be with such people (unless perhaps they are therapists), well, I'm not going there. :-) On Nov 22, 4:35 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 2:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > who choose to be with such people (unless perhaps they are therapists), > well, I'm not going there. :-) LOL... there are a lot of other types of people out there, too, who've lived lives that hold a vastly different set of challenges than what you seem to have known. Miners, farmers, ranchers, construction workers, foundry workers, and the like. Kitten > On Nov 22, 4:35 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Kitten Yes. Absolutely. But - how did we get here?? This dialogue all started with someone raising his fist to hit his spouse, I thought. Now, how we got from THERE to HERE (miners, farmers, and ranchers, etc)? I haven't the foggiest. :-) Or are you implying that that goes with that territory? On Nov 22, 5:30 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 4:35 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: <snipped> > >> Well, yes, I haven't had (*nor would I want to have*) any experiences > and/or [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > haven't the foggiest. :-) > Or are you implying that that goes with that territory? The man said he lost control, said things he shouldn't, and *raised* his fists - but stopped himself. Now he's looking for ways to deal with things so he doesn't go there again. I think that's far from asanine. Kitten > On Nov 22, 5:30 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>> Well, yes, I haven't had (*nor would I want to have*) any experiences >>>> and/or associations with abusers, serial-killers, child-molesters, rapists, >>>> wife-batterers, and the like (all of which fit in the category of *pond >>>> scum*). And I haven't worked in a prison. And I haven't been on skid >>>> row. So, yes, that is perhaps a bit sheltered. And yes, those people >>>> would indeed be foreign to me, and for that, I'm glad. (And as for those >>>> who choose to be with such people (unless perhaps they are therapists), >>>> well, I'm not going there. :-) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The man said he lost control, said things he shouldn't, and *raised* > his fists - but stopped himself. Well - which should never have happened in the first place (as he himself admitted). Period. End of story. On Nov 22, 7:41 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 5:30 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Well - which should never have happened in the first place (as he himself > admitted). Period. End of story. So, you're saying that emotion, good or bad, has never taken control of you, however temporarily? > On Nov 22, 7:41 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>>>>> and/or associations with abusers, serial-killers, child-molesters, >>>>>> rapists, wife-batterers, and the like (all of which fit in the category >>>>>> of *pond scum*). And I haven't worked in a prison. And I haven't >>>>>> been on skid row. So, yes, that is perhaps a bit sheltered. And >>>>>> yes, those people would indeed be foreign to me, and for that, I'm glad. >>>>>> (And as for those who choose to be with such people (unless perhaps they >>>>>> are therapists), well, I'm not going there. :-) >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > So, you're saying that emotion, good or bad, has never taken control > of you, however temporarily? No, I didn't say that. But not the above - no way. On Nov 22, 7:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 7:41 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > No, I didn't say that. But not the above - no way. Life is a learning path, Bill. If you were able to learn early on how to deal without such reactions, then you should be thankful. But I don't think any of us should look down on those who have yet to learn that lesson. I feel that it would be better for us to be thankful that we're not in the same place, and - if we're in a position to do so - help them learn to do better themselves. Kitten > On Nov 22, 7:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>>>>>>> and/or associations with abusers, serial-killers, child-molesters, >>>>>>>> rapists, wife-batterers, and the like (all of which fit in the category >>>>>>>> of *pond scum*). And I haven't worked in a prison. And I haven't >>>>>>>> been on skid row. So, yes, that is perhaps a bit sheltered. And [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>>>>> Yes. Absolutely. But - how did we get here?? This dialogue all >>>>>> started with someone raising his fist to hit his spouse, I thought. Now, >>>>>> how we got from THERE to HERE (miners, farmers, and ranchers, etc)? >>>>>> I haven't the foggiest. :-) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Life is a learning path, Bill. If you were able to learn early on how > to deal without such reactions, then you should be thankful. "Such reactions"?????? The part above is intuitively obvious, and practically instinctive, at least to any moral person (possible condescension, notwithstanding). Hey, if you also want to forgive (as yet another example) a wife-beater, or a rapist, more power to ya, but - count me out. On Nov 22, 10:51 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Nov 22, 7:54 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Hey, if you also want to forgive (as yet another example) a wife-beater, or > a rapist, more power to ya, but - count me out. You're lumping people working to learn to control their reactions to frustration or anger in with "a wife-beater, or a rapist?" Totally different, Bill, and you know it. And where do you draw the line between a person who beats another with his/her fists, and a person who does so "only" with words? Where does continual condescention fit on that spectrum? Kitten > On Nov 22, 10:51 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >>>>>>>>>> Well, yes, I haven't had (*nor would I want to have*) any experiences >>>>>>>>>> and/or associations with abusers, serial-killers, child-molesters, >>>>>>>>>> rapists, wife-batterers, and the like (all of which fit in the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>>>>>>>> LOL... there are a lot of other types of people out there, too, who've >>>>>>>>> lived lives that hold a vastly different set of challenges than what >>>>>>>>> you seem to have known. Miners, farmers, ranchers, construction [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>>>>> Well - which should never have happened in the first place (as he himself >>>>>> admitted). Period. End of story. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > frustration or anger in with "a wife-beater, or a rapist?" Totally > different, Bill, and you know it. No it isn't. Not when they can't control their reactions enough to not hit their wife, hit their kids, or whatever. > And where do you draw the line between a person who beats another with > his/her fists, and a person who does so "only" with words? Right here: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Where does continual condescension fit on that spectrum? It doesn't. On 22 Nov, 19:38, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > paulf...@gmail.com wrote: > > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Pretty assnine, actually, that you would even do such a thing. Yep. I KNOW... On Nov 22, 2:45 am, paulf...@gmail.com wrote: > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended > up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she threw them [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tried apologising but I guess shes just too annoyed with me at the > moment. If you know in your heart that you would never strike her, you need to make sure she knows this as well. The thing is- as stupid as it was, it shows immaturaty. A boy who is so frustrated raises his fists in a tantrum to control his little world. You need to work on ways to control that little boy. I find it pretty bad that you threw pants at her. Sorry to say- I have not a clue how you go about controlling your anger. I mean you can walk away if you feel like you are going to lose it, then make sure to return later when you calm down, because you don't want to just leave things hanging. That's my best advice without knowing how bad your loss of control is. Vickie > Had a big argument this morning about something really stupid. I ended > up throwing a pair of our sons trousers at my wife (she threw them [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > tried apologising but I guess shes just too annoyed with me at the > moment. On the off-chance you're still reading this newsgroup, Paul, how have you and your wife been getting on since your temper got the best of you? I think you need to look at what was making you angry enough to feel (even so briefly) like hitting her. You controlled yourself before it went too far and that's good but I believe working out the source of your frustration/anger is probably more important than beating yourself up about how you expressed it. Actually, I don't think throwing clothing is all that serious because there is no intent to hurt when flinging soft things about! Not good, of course, but not evil or abusive in a one-off situation. Corrected... > Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote: >> On Nov 22, 10:51 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>>>>>>> Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 4:35 pm, "Bill in Co." <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> <snipped> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>>>>>>>>> child-molesters, rapists, wife-batterers, and the like (all of >>>>>>>>>>> which fit in the category of *pond scum*). And I haven't worked >>>>>>>>>>> in a prison. And I haven't been on skid row. So, yes, that is >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps a bit sheltered. And >>>>>>>>>>> yes, those people would indeed be foreign to me, and for that, I'm >>>>>>>>>>> glad. (And as for those who choose to be with such people (unless >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps they are therapists), well, I'm not going there. :-) >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> >>>>>>>>> Yes. Absolutely. But - how did we get here?? This dialogue >>>>>>>>> all started with someone raising his fist to hit his spouse, I >>>>>>>>> thought. Now, how we got from THERE to HERE (miners, farmers, >>>>>>>>> and ranchers, etc)? I haven't the foggiest. :-) >>>>>>>>> Or are you implying that that goes with that territory? >>> >>>>>>>> The man said he lost control, said things he shouldn't, and *raised* >>>>>>>> his fists - but stopped himself. >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> >>> Hey, if you also want to forgive (as yet another example) a wife-beater, or >>> a rapist, more power to ya, but - count me OUT. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It doesn't. Correction: ok, it can, in some instances. Like if a spouse is constantly verbally abusing their spouse and/or his/her kids. That may be just as bad, and in some cases, maybe even worse. > I'm just so annoyed with myself that Iet my temper get the better of > me. Any advice? No advice, just an observation - that bad patch you spoke of, seems what ever happened since was nothing more then a Band-Aid. To raise your fist - anger was deeply seated, masked sota speak; and your SO was pressing a button. I suspect not unlike when the patch was bad. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) |
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