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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / December 2007Consussions and personality change
Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever heard of the word "concussion"? Anyone know that concusssion with temperal lobe damage can change the personality through brain damage? I take it that psychoanalysts and psychotherapists *do* believe that the brain is not just an air-cooling system as held in the Aristotelian School: http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic865.htm http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000028.htm http://www.springerlink.com/content/lq78762q2375lj07/ http://www.adhd.com.au/Post_concussion_Syndrome.htm Let me put another question to you: do you think it's reasonable for a physician to actually examine a patient who has bashed his head on the wall or floor with great force (repeatedly) through a brain scan? -- particularly when cognitive and emotional changes in personality and sleep cycles, follow these head traumas? I know this sounds like i am searching for excuses for my husband's behaviour as some have said, but let's assume that the issue of infidelity (as out-of-character as it seems to me), has become irrelevant. And let's assume that the issue of change in character and deficits in cognitive behaviour or other mental problems have appeared. Is it unreasonable to expect that a patient should be examined for post-concussion syndrome? His uncle who has been a nurse for all his life thinks so. Erin > Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > heard of the word "concussion"? Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Erin If his personality changed due to a concussion, so be it. I don't think a doc would have a concern over it unless he lost function in an organ or body part controlled by the brain. If a person has a concussion and turns into a belligerent a.s, there is not much you can do about it, unless the person is a cartoon, then you could just bash his head in again, and he would return to normal. Vickie > > Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > > heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Vickie Not true -- take a look at the posts i chose (all medical); medication, rehabilitation, cognitive therapy, many things are done to bring a person back to normal. Sports Medicine specializes in this area. I know that DH never got neurological or psychiatric treatment - only psychological tests. He is not one to express his illness so it goes unnoticed. But to me, he complained of memory loss, concentration lapse, narcoleptic fits, mood changes, gate disturbance and other stuff. This is an organic brain problem. When we went to ER, they only examined the spine as he was afraid he had cracked it, and that was ALL they tested. They asked him if he beat his wife (poor guy - he is not violent). He changed after many head bashings-- a problem he has had since childhood). Erin >>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever >>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>> >>> http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic865.htmhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/en cy/article/000028.htm http://www.springerlink.com/content/lq78762q2375lj07/ http://www.adhd.com.au/Post_concussion_Syndrome.htm >>> Let me put another question to you: �do you think >>> it's reasonable for a physician to actually examine [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Erin Erin. You are really grasping here. Yes, I think you are looking for excuses for his behavior. (Are you aware of that)? I guess it's part of the process, though. So, maybe that's ok. > >>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > >>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > excuses for his behavior. (Are you aware of that)? I guess it's part > of the process, though. So, maybe that's ok. Well you may be right Bill. I don't intend to interfere with how he want to live anymore -- whether he is happy and recovered with a new life or not. The question remains though, how did he change suddenly? Even if it were a conscious change i would not interfere, because for me there is not thing to gain. But given that why do you think that? Why do you think that a concussion does not change a personality? Erin > Well you may be right Bill. I don't intend to interfere with > how he want to live anymore -- whether he is happy [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Show quoted text - "Codependent people are often from households with members who are involved in destructive behaviors such as alcoholism or drug addiction. They may have family members or loved ones who are mentally ill or chronically sick. The co-dependent person may be a spouse, parent, or care giver. They have been faced with the unhealthy behavior of the family member, and in an attempt to deal with it, have themselves developed unhealthy habits and behavior patterns." Try googling codependcey Erin. See if any of it rings true to you. It may help. I mean maybe it will help you to focus on yourself and what you can do for you during all this. Vickie > > Well you may be right Bill. �I don't intend to interfere with > > how he want to live anymore -- whether he is happy [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Vickie That's a meaningful answer Vickie. Thanks. Actually, he comes from a co-dependent family with life-long serious disabilities/addictions, but to me it seemed that they did not take care of each other the way my culture does. I, on the other hand, did not have such family problems, but there was/is a lot of love and caring even for small things. So, this was a real drag on me and he took it for granted and still does. I feel guilty even when i am not taking care of him now, doh! I felt i HAD to take care of him because I loved him. It was/is exhausting. I will look up co-dependency. Erin >>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever >>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > Erin I didn't say that, Erin. But - I still think you're missing the main point here - missing the forest for the trees. I still think this is a codependency caretaker issue on your part. Author Melody Beattie has written some books on codependency, such as "Codependency, No More", and "Beyond Codependency" (at least as I recall). You might at least look them up, or just read about them a bit (like maybe over at amazon.com), and see if it is useful to you. > >>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > >>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > You might at least look them up, or just read about them a bit (like maybe > over at amazon.com), and see if it is useful to you. OK - I will. But so what if it's co-dependency? When you care for someone who is ill he may depend on you -- is that so weird? Or is you in turn depend on them.... sigh.... you must have observed human relations. Man is not an island? You make it sound as if I have a psychological problem, because i care for my mother who has health problems, or my father who is getting old, or my DH who has gone bonkers and can't get the right meds. I really don't think I have a problem; i think people who do not care or wish to become more independent have a problem. We are all going to die one day; and the we will really be independent of each other. Erin > > >>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > > >>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > more independent have a problem. We are all going to die one day; > and the we will really be independent of each other. Co-dependency is hurtful. By helping a person in so much as you become their crutch that they don't feel the need to ever really help themselves. And if by some chance they do help themselves or get better, whatever the case may be, the helpful person is lost, because there went the definition of who they are (or who they think they are). At this point, depending how far gone and unhealthy the helpful person is, they can keep making up problems (for the "sick" person) to bring themselves back to being in control again. Do you see how this sort of fits with your grasping. You have always helped out your DH. He is not there any more. Where does that leave you? Vickie > > >>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > > >>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > > Erin Yup, I'm looking: http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/69119-ebook.htm You can download it if you have MICROSOFT - i don't; so i may look it up in the library. It is not exactly "Mother Theresa" or "Norman Bethune" reading, but then again, I am not Mother Theresa. Thanks Erin >>>>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever >>>>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >>>> >>>> Erin. You are really grasping here. Yes, I think you are looking for >>>> excuses for his behavior. (Are you aware of that)? I guess it's part >>>> of the process, though. So, maybe that's ok. >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I have a psychological problem, because i care for my mother who > has health problems, or my father who is getting old, No, I'm not saying that - at least not here. > or my DH who > has gone bonkers and can't get the right meds. But here, given what he done, and his actions, - yes. > I really don't think > I have a problem; i think people who do not care or wish to become > more independent have a problem. We are all going to die one day; > and the we will really be independent of each other. > > Erin The point is, if you don't have some healthy boundaries of your own, you get sucked into thinking it's YOUR issue to fix (and you kinda "depend" on that) - and that "if you can only find the "right fix", everything will magically become hunky-dory once again! And, I don't think it will. This is a bit different than caring for your parents, although even that can go "that way" too (but I don't want to get into this one too much - BTDT). On Dec 28, 10:15 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >>>>>>> Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > >>>>>>> heard of the word "concussion"? �Anyone know [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > This is a bit different than caring for your parents, although even that can > go "that way" too (but I don't want to get into this one too much - BTDT). The focus on self, boundaries for self-behavior AND interaction seem key to me. My mom, who was not functioning well (alcoholism), fell and had a terrible concussion--she was drunk at the time. Now, her negative behavior formerly associated with her drinking is how she is all the time. Two of my three siblings and I had joined Al-Anon long ago, and could deal with her drunk behavior quite well (the third sibling remained co-dependent), but when this became "how mom is" we did have to rethink our boundaries and responsibilities so that we could stay healthy AND love her/care for her. My Dad had the hardest time, but he too has moved from codependency to healthy caregiving. In the past year, Mom has started a medical treatment plan, including depression meds, diet, exercise, and counseling. We all insisted on it, although she saw no problem in her behavior--after all, brain injuries don't allow the injured to process themselves adequately. She is now better than I've EVER known her in all my life (I'm almost 50). Start with yourself. You'll know when you are good and clear, and it will then leak into your troubled relationship. My thoughts are with you. Fill On Dec 28, 10:15 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Erin wrote: > > Bill in Co wrote: [quoted text clipped - 129 lines] > can > go "that way" too (but I don't want to get into this one too much - BTDT). The focus on self, boundaries for self-behavior AND interaction seem key to me. My mom, who was not functioning well (alcoholism), fell and had a terrible concussion--she was drunk at the time. Now, her negative behavior formerly associated with her drinking is how she is all the time. Two of my three siblings and I had joined Al-Anon long ago, and could deal with her drunk behavior quite well (the third sibling remained co-dependent), but when this became "how mom is" we did have to rethink our boundaries and responsibilities so that we could stay healthy AND love her/care for her. My Dad had the hardest time, but he too has moved from codependency to healthy caregiving. In the past year, Mom has started a medical treatment plan, including depression meds, diet, exercise, and counseling. We all insisted on it, although she saw no problem in her behavior--after all, brain injuries don't allow the injured to process themselves adequately. She is now better than I've EVER known her in all my life (I'm almost 50). Start with yourself. You'll know when you are good and clear, and it will then leak into your troubled relationship. My thoughts are with you. Fill Wow, Fill. Great post - thoughtful, plus so much more. I'm listening carefully and thinking about what you said and are saying. Thanks for posting here. Welcome - I don't think I've seen you around much, but I'm very much appreciating your contributions. A. > On Dec 28, 10:15 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 163 lines] > > A. Yeah, that gives hope and credence. Sorry about your mom; that is so sad. But good too that the she is getting better. Sick people have a hard time in life -- doctors should pay more attention to them. Without relatives they often end up on the stree, homeless, soliciting coins. This society sucks. Erin > > On Dec 28, 10:15 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 171 lines] > > Erin It is sad about Mom. Even getting better, I remain cautious and suspicious ("how long will this phase last?") tho it has lasted 6 months, as I said longer healthy behavior than I can ever remember. Which is too bad :( But if it's your husband or my mom or my DH daughter, we want to and can care, but only if we're good (to) ourselves. I'm no expert on this. I mess up, meddle, and try to control things that I need not too often. But I try to focus on being good/healthy myself constantly. I just know when I am not fretting/obsessing/anxious/etc, things are better. This society may suck in some ways. But, think about other societies. Today I read about Pakistan and the woman who was murdered. All the strife there. My mom, your husband, my DH daughter's problems would seem so insignificant if I lived in Pakistan today. I never succeed but try to remind myself of the bigger pictures while not forgetting my real is really, real. Mom's sick. Your husband's sick. But that does not mean you have to be sick. I'm not. (Most of the time) Fill Vickie wrote: > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > *do* believe that the brain is not just an air-cooling > > system as held in the Aristotelian School: You're right of course - there is treatment. But the more concussions a person has, the more likely they are to have negative personality changes, often in the direction of violent or impulsive behavior. By impulsive, however, "running off with soulmate" isn't exactly what is meant. More like sudden shoplifting or darting across an interstate. You're wrong about Aristotle and his notions of the brain (don't know where you're getting that) but I know what you're trying to say - blame that view on Victorian era medicine, not Aristotle, please. Temporal lobe damage causes specific problems in cognition, depending on the exact zone. Right pre-frontal cortex damage is associated with profound personality change (such as running off to a new person or job or situation). > > http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic865.htmhttp://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/en cy/article/000028.htmhttp://www.springerlink.com/content/lq78762q2375lj07/http:/ /www.adhd.com.au/Post_concussion_Syndrome.htm > > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Vickie Not true -- take a look at the posts i chose (all medical); medication, rehabilitation, cognitive therapy, many things are done to bring a person back to normal. Sports Medicine specializes in this area. I know that DH never got neurological or psychiatric treatment - only psychological tests. He is not one to express his illness so it goes unnoticed. But to me, he complained of memory loss, concentration lapse, narcoleptic fits, mood changes, gate disturbance and other stuff. This is an organic brain problem. When we went to ER, they only examined the spine as he was afraid he had cracked it, and that was ALL they tested. They asked him if he beat his wife (poor guy - he is not violent). He changed after many head bashings-- a problem he has had since childhood). Why is his head so bashed? You've probably said, but I forget. The doctor asked that question because concussion patients do have a higher rate of violent acting out. Anti-psychotics of various kinds are used, as well as some other drugs, sometimes things like neurontin. But, the kinds of odd behaviors I associate with your husband, so far as you've described them, don't seem especially consistent with concussion. Could be. Still trying to find some organic reason? Why? I don't think he's going to go in for treatment, if he's so happy the way he is. A. Erin > Vickie wrote: > > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > Erin He could be misdiagnosed imho - Autism or Asperger's looks very likely from his childhood -- that would require different drugs; the drug he has been taking has made his life very hard and has not stopped the head-banging (which he had from youth-- could be Autism could be learned response, don't know) Some of the family disabilities look like Autism in his family. Anyway, as you guys are saying, it is no longer up to me if he is functioning OK -- but i don't know if he is now. I hope for the best for him. Thanks for the feedback. Erin >> Vickie wrote: >> > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > OK -- but i don't know if he is now. I hope for the best for him. > Thanks for the feedback. There you go again. I'm not saying your husband is entirely healthy (the head banging is quite odd, you know). OTOH, sounds like he's always been this way. If in fact he is autistic (or something like it), then by living with you, perhaps he's acquired more social skills and is ready to test his wings. That happens a lot, in marriages - people acquire new functioning in the marriage and then take off to parts unknown with their new abilities. A. > Erin > >> Vickie wrote: > >> > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] > > > > Erin That could very well be given the opportunity, as in this case. I guess it may be his way of saying "thanks for the memories". Erin > > Vickie wrote: > > > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > - Show quoted text - " He could be misdiagnosed imho - Autism orAsperger'slooks very > likely from his childhood -- that would require different drugs;..." Require different drugs???? Autism or Asperger's (which is Autism in pure form) DOES NOT REQUIRE DRUGS!!! It's like saying being black or mixed race would require different drugs to someone having a kidney disease which causes them to go yellow.... You lot are ignorant beoynd belief!! LOL :-))))))))))))))))))))))) Roza www.myspace.com/rozagy > > > Vickie wrote: > > > > On Dec 28, 3:20?pm, Erin <squig...@sympatico.ca> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > > www.myspace.com/rozagy Do a search will you Roza -- there are many medical sites on medications for Asperger and Autism (they are related to schizophrenia in the negative spectrum and antipsychotics and/or antidepressants are used: Here is one site from Medscape: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/460481_2 I will not bother to insult you, you can do the research and save me the trouble. Erin "Require different drugs???? Autism or Asperger's (which is Autism in pure form) DOES NOT REQUIRE DRUGS!!! It's like saying being black or mixed race would require different drugs to someone having a kidney disease which causes them to go yellow...." Pharmaceutical companies have realized that the races are different in the way they utilize medicines and in their approach to health issues in general, and are starting to develop drugs specifically for people of African descent. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/550182_3 > But the more concussions a person has, the more likely they are to have > negative personality changes, often in the direction of violent or impulsive > behavior. FYI - it takes really solid blow to cause deep concussion; even then personality's don't all of a sudden change. Deep concussion can lead to death easily if not treated; multiple head trama's undiagnosed will show consequences and death won't be that far behind. > By impulsive, however, "running off with soulmate" isn't exactly what is > meant. More like sudden shoplifting or darting across an interstate. I agree... concussions "alone" don't change behaviors, values or how one lives life. I've had a few minor one from sports activities, and so has other friends. Nobody's run off with their Internet pen pal or imaginary friends:) Don't know if you're aware... have you noticed the content of her posts and how it's evolving?  SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > > But the more concussions a person has, the more likely they are to have > > negative personality changes, often in the direction of violent or impulsive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > death easily if not treated; multiple head trama's undiagnosed will show > consequences and death won't be that far behind. Correct. I didn't think to include a thorough discussion of what a concussion is. But, yes, we're speaking of serious concussions, not minor shaking or bruising. However, in infants and toddlers, minor concussions can lead to lifelong problems, brain damage and personality change. No, it's not usually sudden. And often, it's not lasting, either. Still, when people on death row in California are studied (and they are continuously studied), it is a consistent finding that violent offenders in general have more concussions (way more) than people who are not in prison. They often had concussions in their teen years. > > By impulsive, however, "running off with soulmate" isn't exactly what is > > meant. More like sudden shoplifting or darting across an interstate. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > other friends. Nobody's run off with their Internet pen pal or > imaginary friends:) Right. Although having a rod through one's prefrontal cortex or having some part of the brain destroyed by stroke can have devastating effects on the personality. > Don't know if you're aware... have you noticed the content of her posts > and how it's evolving? Yes. As someone said, she's grasping at straws - medical tangents, really. I don't mean to be speaking behind her back, obviously, since she's reading these threads. But, her own issues (which border on a sort of para-hypochrondriasis) need looking into, in some fashion. So, Erin, while you dislike the whole notion of psychotherapy, you do need to get a grasp on your own issues if you want your husband in your life. I'm sure he's not particularly happy being constantly diagnosed with something or other - most people would dislike that very strongly. The kind of issues Erin has are, in my view, among the "contagious" psychiatric symptoms. If a person insists on providing a medical diagnosis to others around her (especially a naive diagnosis), sometimes people respond by getting sick. Healthy people respond by moving away, though. On some of the boards Erin is on (Dr. Bob's) people are more willing to support her neurosis and engage in co-diagnosing her husband (or her), or in providing more support for her views. Here, she's not getting that, which I think is good. Some people here who have ceased responding to her are doing that, I think, because they do need to move away from her. Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with her own stuff without psychotherapy? I think I'm understanding a bit more of her husband's dilemmas as time goes by. A. > -- > SD:) > "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > > > But the more concussions a person has, the more likely they are to have > > > negative personality changes, often in the direction of violent or impulsive [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > > My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) OK -- time may tell whether medical problems have been a contributing factor to personality change, including rage, insults, and "i have a right to be free and meld with my co-worker because i have after all fixed her marriage". Personally, i think he's sick, has been sick for some time and gotten worse for lack of medical care. Do I love him? Yes. Do I care for his health? Yes. Can i live with him, doubtful as i am a caretaker to a very sick person. Do I care if he marries someone more compatible, NO, as long as he doesn't want me to join a menage a trois. Erin > Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with > her own stuff without psychotherapy? Her thoughts are all over the place as she hunts for substanciation of what her viewpoints are regarding her husbands motives and feelings. What stands out is she seldom speaks about her issues as though they are problems that need attention; its all about him. A bit to lopsided for me. Coming to grips without therapy isn't going to happen IMO, without her being primed and ready to see and accept her part in the failed process with her husband. As a side note, I am always cautioned by posters that quickly contribute volumes of posts, like she's done over a short period. All a reader has to do is take notice of her content... SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > > Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with > > her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) If you have any questions about that, don't hesitate to ask me. Erin > If you have any questions about that, don't hesitate to ask me. Based on past interactions with you and some of the content in other posts by you; I rather pass. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > > If you have any questions about that, don't hesitate to ask me. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" > My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) Well, as his soulmate said to him when he asked if he should leave his wife, "you may as well". I rather doubt that anything I say about my faults would make a difference, as the decision has already been made on the basis of their arrangement first. Erin >> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with >> her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > problems that need attention; its all about him. A bit to lopsided for > me. I agree there. I may not have gone to that conclusion as swiftly as you did, but I do agree. > Coming to grips without therapy isn't going to happen IMO, without her > being primed and ready to see and accept her part in the failed process [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > volumes of posts, like she's done over a short period. All a reader has > to do is take notice of her content... Well, I'm not as big on attempting to decide what folks are like, or who is normal, or where people are *really* coming from as you seem to be, but I get your general drift. I think there are probably a fair number of people whose inner turmoil is right up there with Erin's, but they lack the desire or stamina to post here. On some other forums, however, they can get going rather at length. She certainly rejects notions about needing outside help, and recently, seems to be waiting for time to heal some of her pain. I think her posts here are as much about getting through that process as actually seeking help from the folks on this board. Which is fine. This board is helpful in various ways (and, I'm sure, sometimes not helpful at all). But it's free and anonymous, mostly. A. >>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with >>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > A. Exactly! Well said. > >>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with > >>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Exactly! Well said. I think i would be just fine if i lived in Alberta. Erin >>>>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with >>>>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>> >>> Well, I'm not as big on attempting to decide what folks are like, or who is >>> normal, or where people are *really* coming from as you seem to be, but I >>> get your general drift. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> seems to be waiting for time to heal some of her pain. I think her posts >>> here are as much about getting through that process as actually seeking help >>> from the folks on this board. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Erin Canada sounds heavenly. And a little more civilized. Scratch that - I bet a LOT more civilized (than here in the states). > >>>>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a person like Erin can come to grips with > >>>>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Canada sounds heavenly. And a little more civilized. Scratch that - I > bet a LOT more civilized (than here in the states). It's supposed to be heavenly; we have all the advantages here; low poverty rate, high educational level, high income level, one of the highest longevity rates, wealth in resources and industry, the biggest Hydro project in the world, Oil, Wheat, Copper, Aluminum, Steel, Pulp and Paper, Childcare, Medicare, high Techonology, Water, you name it..... People living here should be grateful and take advantage of their good luck and contribute to the stability of the country by maintaining a good social life, not screwing it up because they're bored. Erin Erin >>>>>>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a pe rson like Erin can come to grips with >>>>>>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? >>>>>> >>>>>> Her thoughts are all over the place as she hunts for substanciation of >>>>>> what her viewpoints are regarding her husbands motives and feelings. >>>>>> What stands out is she seldom speaks about her issues as though they are >>>>>> problems that need attention; its all about him. A bit to lopsided for me. >>>>> I agree there. I may not have gone to that conclusion as swiftly as you >>>>> did, but I do agree. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>> As a side note, I am always cautioned by posters that quickly contribute >>>>>> volumes of posts, like she's done over a short period. All a reader has >>>>>> to do is take notice of her content... >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>>> >>>>> I think there are probably a fair number of people whose inner turmoil is >>>>> right up there with Erin's, but they lack the desire or stamina to post >>>>> here. On some other forums, however, they can get going rather at length. >>>>> She certainly rejects notions about needing outside help, and recently, >>>>> seems to be waiting for time to heal some of her pain. I think her posts >>>>> here are as much about getting through that process as actually seeking >>>>> help from the folks on this board. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Erin And limited gun rights, and gun killings too, I'm sure. Wow, now what an advanced concept for a society. See, down here in the States, everybody "has the inalienable right" to bear and carry arms. Now just why is that?? Well, it goes back to the 1800's. (See, we're all still just a militia, just like back then)! Besides which, it is MOST expedient for "resolving" conflicts, especially these days. You just point and shoot, and the problem is solved - eliminated. > See, down here in the States, everybody "has the inalienable right" > to bear and carry arms. Now just why is that?? Well, it goes > back to the 1800's. ---------------------- Not Exactly. A "teacher" should know better than to fudge the historical record. The Second Amendment to the Constitution was adopted in 1789 and ratified in 1791 (as a part of the "Bill of Rights"); however, the roots of the right to bear arms significantly pre-dates our Revolution. In 1671, the English Parliament raised the property requirements for possessing firearms so that only the very wealthy were allowed to have them. Then, in 1686, England's King James II prohibited Protestants from possessing firearms, even though they were 95% of the English subjects. But in 1689, Parliament enacted a Declaration of Rights specifically giving Protestants the freedom to "have arms for their defence..." William Blackstone, considered /the/ authority on pre-Revolutionary common law wrote that this was a "natural right of resistance and self-preservation." Colonialists cited this Declaration, Blackstone's commentary, and the common law right of self-defense in their objections to Britsh attempts to disarm their militias. [Summary courtesy of Wikipedia] > "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote:> See, down here in the States, everybody "has the inalienable right" > > to bear and carry arms. Now just why is that?? Well, it goes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > But in 1689, Parliament enacted a Declaration of Rights specifically Dont confuse him with the facts. BTW Does it ever scare you, the quality of the folks who show up for jury duty? Grace > giving Protestants the freedom to "have arms for their defence..." > William Blackstone, considered /the/ authority on pre-Revolutionary [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the common law right of self-defense in their objections to Britsh > attempts to disarm their militias. [Summary courtesy of Wikipedia] > >>>>>>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a pe rson like Erin can come to grips > with [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > "resolving" conflicts, especially these days. You just point and shoot, > and the problem is solved - eliminated. "the great equalizer" --- doesn't matter how short you are, or timid, or shy; with a gun you have the same power as the other guy, armed or not-- assuming you are not myopic; yes, the United States has an interesting history of guns as self-protection and execution of justice (excuse the pun); It's a throwback from the Wild Wild West, but today it has developed into the necessary goods in Vice. But the reason why the US has so much vice is not related to guns, imho. I think it's the speed of life and the demographic design of cities, which alienate people from each other. For example, super highways, no neighbourhoods, mobility, and an individualistic lifestyle that results from such city planning. Erin >>>>>>>>> Any thoughts, S.D., on how a pe rson like Erin can come to grips with >>>>>>>>> her own stuff without psychotherapy? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Her thoughts are all over the place as she hunts for substanciation of >>>>>>>> what her viewpoints are regarding her husbands motives and feelings. >>>>>>>> What stands out is she seldom speaks about her issues as though they >>>>>>>> are problems that need attention; its all about him. A bit to >>>>>>>> lopsided for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree there. I may not have gone to that conclusion as swiftly as you >>>>>>> did, but I do agree. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coming to grips without therapy isn't going to happen IMO, without her >>>>>>>> being primed and ready to see and accept her part in the failed process >>>>>>>> with her husband. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a side note, I am always cautioned by posters that quickly >>>>>>>> contribute volumes of posts, like she's done over a short period. All >>>>>>>> a reader has to do is take notice of her content... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, I'm not as big on attempting to decide what folks are like, or who >>>>>>> is normal, or where people are *really* coming from as you seem to be, >>>>>>> but I get your general drift. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there are probably a fair number of people whose inner turmoil >>>>>>> is right up there with Erin's, but they lack the desire or stamina to >>>>>>> post here. On some other forums, however, they can get going rather at >>>>>>> length. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She certainly rejects notions about needing outside help, and recently, >>>>>>> seems to be waiting for time to heal some of her pain. I think her >>>>>>> posts here are as much about getting through that process as actually >>>>>>> seeking help from the folks on this board. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Erin Yup. Good observation. It's all of that, alright. Emphasis on the individual, and materialism. Good neighborhoods, extended family, and even two-parent homes, are on the wane.... And we're paying for it (although most aren't even aware of it) > Well, I'm not as big on attempting to decide what folks are like, or who is > normal, or where people are *really* coming from as you seem to be, but I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Which is fine. This board is helpful in various ways (and, I'm sure, > sometimes not helpful at all). But it's free and anonymous, mostly. All good points. I know, to some I reach a certain point quicker then others. I suppose its because administering psychology and behavior analysis in the corporate world is considerably faster then in the typical drawn out series of therapy sessions. This is support.marriage; yet its often learned behavioral drugs, addictions of sorts or untreated emotional problems are at the root of the marital troubles. Yes, this board helps; but to often posters are traveling a subjective communicative road that's to narrow, filled with assumptions by the untrained and better suited for RL clinicians. SignatureSD:) "Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.(A.E.)" My disclaimer: I can say, but can't make you see...(S.D.) > Any of the possible psychologists or counsellors here ever > heard of the word "concussion"? There are no psychologists or counselors in this newsgroup. For concussions, try alt.sports.hockey or alt.support.disorders.neurological. Really, though, you should just give up looking for explanations and move on. ...cognitive and emotional changes in personality and sleep cycles, follow these head traumas? Erin Look at traumatic brain injury (TBI) sources and support groups to find information on behaviorial changes subsequent to head injury. |
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