 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / February 2008great expectations
If you get sick and you are separated for a year, is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; i must be coming from another planet or the old country, but i did not think that separation meant you also lose your status as a human being to someone you have been close to for thirty years. Of course maybe you lost that status a long time ago and the show of concern was not heartfelt- unlikely. It's so weird that i swear there is a cult or group influence on his character. This is not like him. I am not the only person to say this-- even his relatives have seen a change in personality. Erin > If you get sick and you are separated for a year, > is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; > i must be coming from another planet or the old > country, but i did not think that separation meant > you also lose your status as a human being to > someone you have been close to for thirty years. I think one of the hardest things to accept in a separation is that the person you are separated from is no longer there for you, emotionally or otherwise. In all the twists and turns of your story, I lose track of if he has his ring on or off or if he's home or elsewhere or what....but failing to be there to support you in a tough time is a really certain sign that he has gone. I think perhaps you'd decided that you could accept a sort of .... quasi marriage where you live on your own, but still act as husband and wife in many ways. I don't think he's going to accept that. > Of course maybe you lost that status a long time > ago and the show of concern was not heartfelt- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I am not the only person to say this-- even his > relatives have seen a change in personality. You realize don't you, that people say this pretty much every time that someone does something unexpected? People *do* change, and they are even supposed to change. It's unfortunate when a married couple do not change together. Zorra > > If you get sick and you are separated for a year, > > is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Zorra The latest message i got from him was that he loved me and did not want to separe, did not want to divorce, and is wearing his ring. I think there is something wrong with my husband that requires medical attention, e.g. brain tumour, brain lesion, or he actually has joined a cult that forces you to disconnect with your family and relatives especially the one who is a suppressive person. I don't think he is acting normally at all- erratically if anything. Erin I checked the symptoms of brain tumour, of which he has had quite a few, including the narcolepsy. I am not giving up on him until he gets an MRI of brain scan. Erin > I checked the symptoms of brain tumour, of which he > has had quite a few, including the narcolepsy. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Erin Then tell him just that. Tell him your conditions for considering a reconciliation are as follows: 1) He has an MRI 2) He sees a medical doctor for a full check-up 3) He sees a psychiatrist 4) He attends marital counseling with you 5) He cuts off all contact with his girlfriend Tell him if he won't concede to those 5 points, then to please stop calling you because he's wasting your time. jen >> I checked the symptoms of brain tumour, of which he >> has had quite a few, including the narcolepsy. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Tell him if he won't concede to those 5 points, then to please > stop calling you because he's wasting your time. I think she's wasting all of your time. Either she's a troll, or she is deeply troubled beyond what anyone hear can do to help. There's always another reason why her H must see yet another doctor, and a reason why she must wait for the H to see that doctor, must less wait for what he has to say. And then there's the next one, and the next one, and .............. Before, it was that she was sure that he had all sorts of emotional and psychological issues that his own doctor didn't see, but that she did, and that she would wait for the H to find a doctor who would see it. Now, it's that he's got physical brain issues (brain tumor, brain lesion, etc...) or he's joined a cult. Of course, she'll wait until he sees a doctor for the former, and when he doesn't find anything, then it's because the doctor is too incompetent to see it. And of course, she'll have to hire a PI to see if H belongs to a cult, and she won't do anything until it's proven that he does. It's always something, and will always be something. My vote is for troll because of the constant barrage of new threads she starts, but she could just as easily be off her rocker. Either way, no one here is going to change a thing.  SignatureNOTICE: I regard everything which anyone posts in Usenet as nothing more than a work of fiction with no basis in fact or reality whatsoever. Every comment in every one of my posts is nothing more than a useless opinion or a wild speculation, and must never be taken seriously or as having any positive value to anyone for any reasons. I never assume that there's any more to a story than what I have read, no matter what else the author or anyone else may have posted anywhere. Be advised that my remarks are that of an ignorant layperson, and no one should ever base their decisions upon them under any circumstances. > >> I checked the symptoms of brain tumour, of which he > >> has had quite a few, including the narcolepsy. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > layperson, and no one should ever base their decisions upon them > under any circumstances. I'm just guessing at possible scenarios because i don't know and because the personality change was sudden-- i remember distinctly, it happened after he took Serzone. He also kept banging his head and stopped taking his meds 5 yrs. ago. So, that could be significant. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But since then he started changing -- temper outbursts, cognitive problems, sleeping fits, weight loss, Reynaud's syndrome, jaundice, depression, hypomania, .... he didn't have these problems before. They may be unrelated but at least they merit medical attention, whether he fell for someone else or not. He got psychological attention, like personality tests. > > I checked the symptoms of brain tumour, of which he > > has had quite a few, including the narcolepsy. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > jen Thanks jen. I will try to tell him these things when his medication has finally stabilized him. He only started again a couple of months ago and he is dazed from it now. I do feel very sorry for him. He wrote to me that he misses me so much and wishes we could resolve our problems. Those points are good, but unfortunately he hates my hard-core medical approach. Then again, maybe that will just have to be the condition. I firmly believe in biological medicine first, especially in abnormal cases like this one. It would take a neurologist or psychiatrist. And he hates them. Erin >> If you get sick and you are separated for a year, >> is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > marriage where you live on your own, but still act as husband and wife in many > ways. I don't think he's going to accept that. It's a common way people have of getting themselves to not feel so much for you, so that they -can- separate (emotionally, moving on). If they feel too much compassion etc. then a lot of people feel this risks getting caught up in things again, so instead they try to be colder so that they won't risk having "feelings" for the person they left and want to leave behind. It usually takes a lot more than a year for an ex-couple (esp. the one who leaves) to be able to be friendly towards each other again, and then only if they are able to emotionally separate and move on with their lives enough to feel that they are not risking being caught up again. It is rarely a conscious choice but is very common, especially in people who have a need to see the world as more black-and-white, with-you-or-against-you. -- Troia > >> If you get sick and you are separated for a year, > >> is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > -- Troia Yes, i understand that. I have done it myself when breaking up with a boyfriend. You have to try not to feel close to them so as to learn to leave emotionally. But in this case, only a week ago, quite the opposite in e-mails and personal concern was shown. This is what i mean by erratic behaviour. Erin >>>> If you get sick and you are separated for a year, >>>> is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Erin Yes, with apologies, I had not read in full until afterwards all the rest of what you were saying about the medical issues. The drugs & so much more that you mention can obviously factor in; need not even be something on the order of a brain tumor but could be so many things including that psychotropics do introduce increased erratic behavior in many people, as I'm sure you already know. Worst thing is (BTDT) it's so hard to tell if a response you see during a breakup is due to those types of factors, or more a normal human reponse. Given the medical history you describe, it seems your concerns are at least not over-reaction and you know best to either have them resolved or at least know what's going on if it's physical, by proceeding with the appropriate tests. I probaby shouldn't have posted precipitately, but it reminded me too much of something I've seen before (and where was restraint? *s*) I wish you well in getting it resolved. -- Troia > >>>> If you get sick and you are separated for a year, > >>>> is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > -- Troia Thanks Troia. I think you have done me a great courtesy today by validating my argument. That is exactly it: so hard to extract the "normal" intention from someone who is under the influence of medical problems which affect the mind and the emotions. It's an atypical marital break-up and very difficult to see if it is worth it. Imagine that the person comes to his senses in the future and realizes he has made a very big mistake. I say this because we had a pretty good marriage given the circumstances. Now, with the medical catastrophe, it is very hard to reverse the damage. That's what i said, 'the outrageous behaviour and insults, so unlike you, must be a sign that you intended to break the marriage up'. It's just very sad. Ironically, he may have to take the low road just because he can't reverse things on account of the embarrassment. I think that is what will happen. I think he is taking refuge in his little group of geeks and the female admirer. Erin I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. If the cause of the separation was some show-stopper that puts you on the path to divorce - then a total lack of concern would be somewhat "normal" IMHO. Consider my case! The state of my split from my ex was so acrimonious that I did not give a flying fig about her or what she was doing - other thanthe total wallet raping that she was engaging in with the assistance of the courts. At that time, had she dropped dead, I would have had a PARTY because it would have meant that the yolk was finally off of my shoulders FOREVER and that she would NEVER again be able to jack me around. IF, OTOH, the idea of your seperation was to give each other space and time to work things through with the aim of ventually re-integrating your lives with a rebuilt marraige, then a total lack of concern would be a "red flag" that efforts to rebuild were perhaps not going so well. I have a real problem with "trial separations", and for the very reason that it is way too easy for one (or both) parties - once separated - to either engage in behaviour that undermines the effort, or to merely throw in the towel. And "easy" way out, as it were. If you were to catch you hubby banging a young blonde cutie, he could just say "Well, we were separated, and I really did not think we were going to get back together.... (insert additional excuses and rationalizations ad nausium....)" It is tough to say about the "cult" aspect. But I would submit to you something that I learned... The Spouse that you married either no longer exisits, or never DID exist! Some people are so good at fooling others that they even fool themselves. One day they wake up, and they simply are unwilling to keep up the facade any more. And when they make that choice, it blindsides just about everyone. I came to realize, in my case, that my ex had been a very cleaver liar and deciever. She conned me the whole way along - until after we were married. I made one of my biggest mistakes by not grabbing some back-bone at the 2 year mark and kicking her sorry a.s to the curb. It would take to about the 13 year mark before this would happen. What a waste of some of the best years of my life. Hang in there Erin, but don't beat yourself up too much. Sometimes people change, and sometimes they had changed to be with you, and now they want themselves back. It hurts like hell, but you can get over it - I am living proof. hth "Trumpet Call - Better Days" >If you get sick and you are separated for a year, >is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Erin > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > >Erin You sound very bitter and mean, and very personal, i.e. the husband i knew no longer exists -- how do you know that stuff? And what made you so angry? Erin > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > Erin BTW, that change may be a medical problem. He used to be the sweetest, kindest,most reliablel man around. Everybody liked him. He had a a nice temper and he was always willing to help people. Some 5 yrs. ago, he started getting strange symptoms, which i discussed with Troyka. Something happened to him (concussion? Serzone encephalopathy? drug withdrawal?). He does not look very healthy to me now, nor happy. I think he needs a medical examination, and i don't meant a Roscharsch test. Good luck to him. I wouldn't say this stuff if i didn't care and remember how he used to be; you're right about that, he no longer is the way he used to be. Why? It's personality symptoms that have come up -- there are many physical changes, like jaundice-- that is not a personality trait. Erin > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Erin, I want to suggest something, but I don't want you to take it the wrong way. I'm just speaking from an angle that I experience all too often. I have read a few of your posts and you sound like a pretty strong personality, possibly aggressive type person. Is it possible that maybe you have exhibited any type of behavior over the years (without realizing it) that has caused him to react in this way? Maybe he just broke? I don't have a good way to put it except to tell you what I go through in my own marriage. First, I love my wife, but she is a very opinionated and aggressive person. She will not hold back in expressing herself even when wrong. If you dispute her, she gets angry. There is a very fine line between "discussion" and "argument". It makes me crazy. She is a generally very negative person about most everything. I have to be very careful about what I say and do because it could easily result in an explosion on her behalf. I, however, am the opposite. I am a very laid back, positive person and do my best to look past these things in most circumstances. I can't stand arguing for I grew up in a household where that was a daily occurrence, but I have lately realized that I have to take up for myself and my children just to keep a sense of normalcy in our household. The thing is, though, my wife many times does not even realize there is a problem. She will sometimes completely judge another person and run them into the dirt, describing all of their shortcomings....many of which she is guilty. It is really wierd to hear her describe herself and say, "I can't believe this person acts that way. How can you live with someone like that?" To give you more insight to my own situation, we have been to a counselor, where we learned that the biggest reason she is like she is, is because she is an "adult child of an alcoholic". One huge symptom is that she has no idea what "normal" is because she neither experienced it growing up nor was taught it anywhere along the line. Sometimes, she has moments of realization, but most of the time, she treats me horribly and is totally oblivious to it. I can tell her she is ruining our marriage and it is as if she doesn't hear me. Sometimes I wonder if one day in the future, I'm just going to "break" and quit taking it. Like I say, I'm not suggesting this to offend, but do you think something like this could have happened to you? Maybe there has been a problem all along and it just took him this long to finally crack? Anyway, I hope all of it comes to some resolution. God Bless, TBD > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] > God Bless, > TBD I'm aggressive on the net. I take the opportunity to express my views without social restrictions, and i like that. But in real life i have been criticicized for not being assertive. I think i am assertive enough. There is one singular point that has driven my husband nuts and he has told me that he really can't stand it: i have nagged him to see a psychiatrist for depression. I do not believe that a gynecologist/GP is enough for his case. This is something that my family and his some members of his family have also expressed. We have had constant fights over which is better biological psychiatry or talk therapy. He has had very serious life-threatening episodes when off the meds, and that would be better handled by a psychiatrist. So, if I am aggressive on this point, it is because i have witnessed near-death attempts. Now that we are separated, he is on his own.... and he did try to kill himself when he was given the green light to get off his medication. So, whether i am there to nag or not, the medical picture is the same. I don't believe that my character has been to his detriment on that particular point, and that is the only point where i have nagged him. I would hate to hear a knock on the door or get a phone call informing me that he is dead--whether we are separated or not. Erin > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > [quoted text clipped - 163 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I haven't read all of your posts and didn't realize his medical situation was so dire. I thought you were just hoping it was a medical condition or tumor or something of that nature that has caused him to act this way. Not that you would wish ill on him, but at least there would be a reason. I don't blame you for nagging him to take medicine. Especially in a situation such as that. Does he take his meds now? Maybe that is a major part of the problem. I used to date a woman that was bipolar and she decided at one point to stop taking her meds. It was a bad thing and we broke up. > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] > a woman that was bipolar and she decided at one point to stop taking > her meds. It was a bad thing and we broke up. After a year and a half of listening to his girlfriend, he decided to stop the meds, for a number of reasons-- i think one of them is that they inevitably make everyone gain weight and he had a crush on her. He was encouraged to exercise by her and he felt better for a while-- i knew that better was mania because of the crazy behaviour, e.g. moving from one place to another (3 different apts.) in 6 months) and non-stop walking. I could count the months when he would crash to depression again-- i was off by 6 months, when he finally tried to hang himself. This stuff is not easy on me, because i too have my serious health problems (bipolar) and my meds give me terrible side effects. So, when he reached that state, thank God, he went to the hospital. We were separated then and he could have just killed himself. He is now back on meds, and not depressed. But I still think there is something that went wrong some years ago, becaue he does not look well- sort of a brassy skin colour and the symptoms he had were not just depression. I spoke about that before, and when i see him i encourage him to get an MRI as he had a concussion and ER only checked the spine. He also took Serzone which is notoriously bad for liver- encephalopathy. I don't think he was checked for that, but he got jaundice after taking this drug. But he is better. And I am very glad he made the choice not to kill himself. Erin > > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > [quoted text clipped - 204 lines] > > Erin Wow, sounds like you really have had a time of it. No offense to your husband, but I'm surprised this other woman would be willing to undertake a relationship with someone with this kind of history. Is she aware of it? Is she one of these people that just think he is okay and doesn't need the medicine? And yes, I'm glad he didn't kill himself either. > > > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 212 lines] > > And yes, I'm glad he didn't kill himself either. Could be; i don't know her side of the story. I may be distorting the situation because of lack of information. Emotionally i have reacted with jealousy because he has told me that if he had to choose between me and her he would choose her, and that he could not give her up as she has reached into his soul, his heart, blah blah blah. And then there was the offer that she would come to see him but i did not have to see her at his apt. Sigh. But, it *is* possible that what he feels about her, is not what she feels about him. It's possible; yeah i know, call me a "sucker". It's possible the moon is made of green cheese. Erin > > > > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > [quoted text clipped - 227 lines] > > Erin Well, if what you say is correct, instead of "sucker", I would tend to think "victim". > > > > > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 230 lines] > Well, if what you say is correct, instead of "sucker", I would tend to > think "victim". Correction: i got an inquiry about my being sick. So, i should be fair that there was a how are you. Erin > > > > > > > > > > I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > > [quoted text clipped - 230 lines] > Well, if what you say is correct, instead of "sucker", I would tend to > think "victim". I don't like being a victim and i have no compensation for it. I am alone with an illness, and after depending on him for more than half my life, i am a bit at a loss. Worse, the treachery and infliction of pain, makes it very hard to be friends again, yet i need his help. That's between a rock and hard place. I don't buy the psychological theory - i think this all happened because of his doctor who does not understand drugs, and especially drug withdrawal. But it's too late now. Many problems have arisen from that mess. Erin >> I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. >> [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > >Erin There just aren't enough hours in a day to go into the hell-hole that was my first marraige. And I would not want to waste my time re-hashing all the bad stuff that happened. I had no intention of being bitter, mean, or personal for that matter. For lack of a better description, call it a "model" that I developed in an attempt to understand what the heck happened to me - what I actually lived through at the time. I spent a LOT of time post break-up thinking about things. It was someone on ASD that brought this up, and the more I thought about it, the more it seemed to fit. I am proud to say that I am no longer bitter about what happened - but that does not mean I will ever forget. The scars will always remain on my heart - even though the wounds have long since healed. I believe I understand your pain in a very real way, Erin. I tried for over a decade to rationalize my ex-wife's behaviour. In the end, no amount of trying to understand did me a lick of good. The harder I tried to make sense of things and to make it work, the stronger my ex tried to dominate me and maintain total control. Did she have a medical problem? I don't know. I do know that when I suggested counselling, she flatly refused, stating it was ME that needed to be medicated, and possibly committed - "oh and BTW honey, did you sign that Power of Attourney I gave to you yet??" (and in the same breath no less). Just offering up my experience. If it helps, great, if not, well, I tried. I admire your spunk, Erin. I just want you to understand that even if you DO find something medical, understanding what may be wrong may not be enough. But I can't fault you for trying. Blessings > >> I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > >> [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > Just offering up my experience. If it helps, great, if not, well, I > tried. Well, i won't ask you to go into it. I once spoke of "purity of heart" in one of these posts - sounds corny i know. But it's what i expected from a relationship rather than unravelling an intricate case from Scotland Yard. That's how i feel free, when i don't have to guess what the other person is saying. Sometimes there is a psychological problem that won't break that, and sometimes there is a problem that the won't disclose. Who knows? I am certain that i do not have all the pieces to the puzzle. Anyway, the commitment business, i may misunderstand but i think that in a moment of despair, he tried to indicate to my dr. that i was having schizophrenic ideas because of my delusional jealousy; and he tried to give me Zyprexa. But i am not sure about that-- i just overheard in the office. See, this is the stuff i hate... lack of disclosure. I am not schizophrenic ... the gf comes to visit frequently and probably stays at his pad. It's a mess. Time will tell. Glad we don't have kids. Do you? Erin > I admire your spunk, Erin. I just want you to understand that even if > you DO find something medical, understanding what may be wrong may not > be enough. But I can't fault you for trying. > > Blessings >> >> I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] >and probably stays at his pad. It's a mess. Time will tell. Glad >we don't have kids. Do you? Nope! The ex had a fertility problem. In retrospect - THANK GOD! The business of him suggestion YOU are schizophrenic is a form of projection - it is also an attempt to divert peoples attention from him and toward YOU. Unfortunately, this kind of trick works very effectively on ALOT of people! BTDT :( My ex did it all the time. By constantly telling people (including her family and close friends) what a lousy husband I was, how I needed to be medicated, yada, yada, yada..... They were always looking at me instead of realizing that she was the major contributor to the problem. <sigh> And, yes, this non-disclosure thing is maddening! There were 3 or 4 times when I caught her in lies and significant distortions of the truth. This was inadvertant as it involved interation with other people in cases where she was not present to poison and control the interaction. I never let on to these people, or to her. But when I finally caught her read handed in something that was very hurtful at the time, well, I realized the I had been putting my trust and my faith in her for over 10 years, and that she had been abusing that trust every chance she got. It tore my guts out. This was the woman I had married. As far as I had known, she was not like this when we married. How could the one person that was supposed to love and charish me above all others do this!!! And things got worse from that time until our eventual split. The manipulations, the lies, the verbal, mental, and physical abuse I suffered.... Shocking. Absolutely shocking. Yes, Erin, it is a mess. And you must do what you feel is right. I did all I could to make things work, In the end when they did not work, I could sleep at night knowing that I tried as hard as I could and that no one could accuse me of bailing out at the first sign of trouble. This is where you are, and it is a very tough place to be. I wish you more success than I had. Just know that you are not alone. >Erin >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> Blessings > >> >> I guess it depends on the cause / intent of the separation. > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 167 lines] > This is where you are, and it is a very tough place to be. I wish you > more success than I had. Just know that you are not alone. I'd like to know what it was that she did specifically, but if it hurts, that's OK. I can't say i did not do things to piss of my husband-- i nagged him about meds all the time, but he was prescribed on them and just skipped them some time. Other things about me, i like art and music and literature, but he has different tastes. I am a bit cold i guess, but I am also very affectionate. I did a lot of things for his benefit. I was devoted. But I guess that was not enough. I think I was a good wife. At least he also told me so, and how much he worshipped me, etc. So, whatever has happened is a problem he has. I suspect, barring the medical possibility of erotomania in the manic phase of withdrawal, that he just fell in love with someone else. Period. Erin > If you get sick and you are separated for a year, > is it normal to expect complete lack of concern; [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Erin When you have been that close to someone for 30 years, and then it disappears, it IS surreal. So you're not coming from another planet, it's just that it doesn't register, for some. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2010 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.