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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2008I'm having an affair.
It all started online, like many affairs do these days. We met while participating in a locally based group. And it was one of those things, something clicked and after a month or two from the time we first noticed each other, we began emailing each other. It progressed rapidly after that, within another month, we met. The first meeting, we just talked. The second meeting, we kissed. We have had other meetings since then, but we have never progressed beyond kissing. I'm not going to pretend that somehow that makes it right, because I know it doesn't. The thing is, I can't really say what it is that compels me to continue with the affair. I mean beyond the obvious, which is that I feel as if I have found my lifemate, and we have an incredibly good chemistry and understanding of each other. But when I ask myself if I am willing to sacrifice my marriage to this affair, the answer has very honestly been no. I guess that I am at a cusp right now. I think my marriage has a lot of problems, but I don't think it is without salvation. Or - I am terrified that it is over and has been over for a few years now. But I have children to consider too. Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair has filled in my life - what is it that I am not getting from my marriage that I am finding elsewhere? Or is it truly possible that the two of us just happen to click so completely that the affair was irresistible? That sounds so selfish. I don't feel that I am a selfish person. But I do admit that right now I am torn. I know that I have to end the affair, especially before it escalates. Because I know that to continue it will only add to the confusion. But I don't want to. What if I am letting the greatest love of my life slip away? But then, shouldn't I be working to create the greatest love of my life right here in my home? > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > away? But then, shouldn't I be working to create the greatest love of my > life right here in my home? As someone once told me, what you have is not real. You don't go through the regular trials and tribulations of everyday life with your secret lover. You can't start a new beginning without some other beginnings end. Is the opportunity even available to you to create the greatest love with the one you had first been committed to? It is a tragic shame you probably will never know. Vickie > As someone once told me, what you have is not real. > You don't go through the regular trials and tribulations of everyday > life with your secret lover. > You can't start a new beginning without some other beginnings end. You're right, and I realize that. Granted, we are not paying bills together or caring for children together or even suffering through medical crises together. Maybe that is what made it so appealing in the first place, not the fact that we can talk, but the fact that we can talk without the voices of children to interrupt or the phone ringing. > Is the opportunity even available to you to create the greatest love > with the one you had first been committed to? I don't know. I've been trying for many years. But often I feel as if I am the only one trying. > It is a tragic shame you probably will never know. Why? > Vickie > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >> Vickie What a complete dumbass! >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I don't know. I've been trying for many years. But often I feel as if I >am the only one trying. For those of us who wandered into this group from the dying alt.support.divorce (ASD), your story is both tragically and boringly familiar. Including the justification that crept into this post (..."I've been trying for years..."). I haven't read beyond this post yet, so I don't know for certain that I'll find other familiar canards, but I'd not be surprised. I know I sound harsh, but it's important for you to know that what seems unique and special and different to you is really just the same, exact feelings other people having affairs express -- both about their affair partner and their spouse. Your marriage undoubtedly needs work, but as long as you are emotionally invested in this other relationship, you're not available to work on it. Think about what this means for your future. Divorce has devastating and lasting consequences, especially for children. Barb >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Think about what this means for your future. Divorce has > devastating and lasting consequences, especially for children. all of that, PLUS the fact that there's simply no reason to lie to his wife about it all. >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Barb Obviously he doesn't care about that. What you wrote is "harsh"? Nah. (What I wrote might have been, though. :-) Let's just call it for what it is (aka, "calling a spade a spade"). (I'm always soooo impressed by this side of "humanity", sorry about that). > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > first place, not the fact that we can talk, but the fact that we can > talk without the voices of children to interrupt or the phone ringing. Yes, that's it. > > Is the opportunity even available to you to create the greatest love > > with the one you had first been committed to? > > I don't know. I've been trying for many years. But often I feel as if I > am the only one trying. Most of us are trying and some feel alone in doing it too. > > It is a tragic shame you probably will never know. > > Why? You do realize that what you did/are doing is a deplorable thing. It will be up to your partner if they want to work things through, not you. You lost all rights in regards to your marriage when you failed to live up to your vows. Vickie >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Vickie Apparently you haven't been keeping up with the times. The days of the Scarlet Letter are long gone. > I don't know. I've been trying for many years. But often I feel as if I > am the only one trying. It's very easy to revise history to excuse one's actions in the present. Make sure to ask yourself if you might not be doing that. jen > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > away? But then, shouldn't I be working to create the greatest love of my > life right here in my home? The grass always seems greener on the other side until you get there. Many times people say this but it is so true. People enjoy the thrill of the secrecy but when they are found out it is not fun anymore. You have to want to make things better with your spouse. If you don't, then you won't. > The grass always seems greener on the other side until you get there. > Many times people say this but it is so true. People enjoy the thrill > of the secrecy but when they are found out it is not fun anymore. You > have to > want to make things better with your spouse. If you don't, then you > won't. I don't think it's the thrill of the secrecy. I don't feel so thrilled about the secrecy, I feel anxiety. I do think it is some kind of escape though. I am just not so sure what I am escaping from. > x-no-archive: yes > > It all started online, like many affairs do these days. We met while > participating in a locally based group. And it was one of those things, > something clicked and after Blahblahblahblahblah. Get the f.ck over yourself. >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Get the f.ck over yourself. Seconded. Just (yet another) sign of the *it's all about ME ME ME* times, and screw the children. And - he wants "support" for it! >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >away? But then, shouldn't I be working to create the greatest love of my >life right here in my home? Who are you trying to fool? Last week I had sex with your wife and she told me that your penis is so small that you can not satisfy ANY woman. She said she is not happy with you because she wanted a MAN (like me), who could arouse her. Instead she got you with your tiny worm you call a dick. You might as well face the truth. She dont want you anymore. You dont satisfy her needs. NNTP-Posting-Host: wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org >NNTP-Posting-Host: wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org >wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org >wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org >wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org >wdV5uzmQul2rk0eZSkCZOg.user.aioe.org Goodbye Troll PLONK > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > happen to click so completely that the affair was irresistible? That > sounds so selfish. I don't feel that I am a selfish person. I have a suggestion, since you apparently don't get it. As someone else suggested, go f.ck yourself. > The thing is, I can't really say what it is that compels me to > continue with the affair. I mean beyond the obvious, which is > that I feel as if I have found my lifemate, and we have an > incredibly good chemistry and understanding of each other. But > when I ask myself if I am willing to sacrifice my marriage to > this affair, the answer has very honestly been no. Like too many people today, you seem to be confused between reasons to enter into a new relationship, and reasons to lie about it. You can wonder all you want about the reasons why your having this other relationship, but what's the reason that you're lying about it? While there might be many reasons why your relationship with your wife might not be fulfilling, or might even be bad, and while those might be perfectly understandable reasons to want to seek a different relationship (although, maybe they are not), there is no valid reason to lie about it. None. First of all, you might find some clarity about the situation if you stop calling it an 'affair', as though it might as well be some dinner gala of some sort. It's not an affair at all. It's a lie, and it's a betrayal. You're engaged in a continuing betrayal of your wife. So instead of saying "I'm having an affair", you should really say "I'm continually betraying my wife". Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem saying those words, instead of words that make it sound as though you're at some sort of party with which your wife would have no problem. > Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying > your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem > saying those words, instead of words that make it sound as though > you're at some sort of party with which your wife would have no > problem. Did I miss something or haven't I read far enough? How do you know it's his wife, and not her husband? jen >> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying >> your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Did I miss something or haven't I read far enough? How do you know > it's his wife, and not her husband? I read the gender-neutral posts as if the OP is a woman so I'd be quite interested in knowing which it is - although it doesn't make any difference to what I think he/she should do, of course. > >> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying > >> your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > interested in knowing which it is - although it doesn't make any difference > to what I think he/she should do, of course. Didn't we have another poster who did the gender neutral thing? Turned out it was an unusual sort of troll, IIRC. S/he was "proving" that we are sexist and give different advice based on the gender of the cheater. Or I might be mixing up two trolls. . . >>>> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not >>>> betraying your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that we are sexist and give different advice based on the gender of > the cheater. Or I might be mixing up two trolls. . . When someone is so careful to avoid giving clues about their sex it can give me the impression they are setting up a scenario for a magazine article or somesuch and it seems very contrived to me. Here they are, presumably in a great emotional mess, yet are still controlled enough to be carefully sifting through their word choices. If they are that able to be coolly analytical why do they need outside opinion in the first place? Even if it's used as a self-defence mechanism they are probably only wanting to hear what they are already willing to accept about their situation anyway. >> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying >> your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > jen Maybe s/he's bisexual, or unisex. Doesn't really matter, does it? Whoever it is, they're completely clueless, and fully amoral. As I said, shame apparently doesn't exist anymore these days. It's all just a laugh, isn't it? (don't believe me? Watch the comedians just pan it, and affairs, today). >> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not betraying >> your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have no problem [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >jen Because wives do not have a penis !!!!!!!! (except yours). In news:a3f8917d-8fe9-4e5c-8e1f-23672feec620@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com, pennyshiny123@gmail.com <pennyshiny123@gmail.com> mused: >> Now, if you can make a case for why it is that you are not >> betraying your wife, then please do. Otherwise, you should have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Did I miss something or haven't I read far enough? How do you > know it's his wife, and not her husband? The OP was gender neutral IIRC, and I didn't want to keep typing he/her, she/he. etc... The point remains the same, regardless of gender. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > away? But then, shouldn't I be working to create the greatest love of my > life right here in my home? Through a series of really bad choices, rationalizations, you've come to a point where you have two paths. You can continue to deceive those around you on a path that leads only to pain and shame increasingly justifying more egregious lies to your partner, or you can cut your losses and use it as a catalyst to improve your relationship with your spouse. It's sounds simple, but it's really that clear cut. Choose wisely, on you worst days you can't imagine how shitty life can be for all around you if you continue the way your going. In news:388c9b20-609e-4a4e-a246-aa38eee7532e@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com, mr_sbr <mrsbr_175@hotmail.com> mused: >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > life can be for all around you if you continue the way your > going. That's the best post I've yet seen about this kind of situation. > Through a series of really bad choices, rationalizations, you've come > to a point where you have two paths. You can continue to deceive [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Choose wisely, on you worst days you can't imagine how shitty life can > be for all around you if you continue the way your going. You are right. I suppose I already knew the answers, and I know what I have to do, I just needed to hear it. It will be difficult to break off the affair, but not nearly as difficult as what will happen if I am discovered, or if my marriage ends. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the affair, but not nearly as difficult as what will happen if I am > discovered, or if my marriage ends. I'm probably one of the few people here that will concede that yes it will be hard to break it off without a speech about how you deserve it (you do by the way :). It will suck, and it will suck for a while to come, but more importantly than sucking, it's the right thing to do, tough but right. You've already f.cked up, that can't be changed, but hopefully you can look back someday knowing that today was the day that you started doing the right thing. Good luck. In news:dc77c453-d30b-42ce-8c29-d02262b05921@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com, mr_sbr <mrsbr_175@hotmail.com> mused: >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > you can look back someday knowing that today was the day that > you started doing the right thing. Good luck. I can't think of too many people that would disagree that it will be difficult to do the right thing. Doing the right thing is only ever worth noting to the extent that it's difficult anyway. So yes, it will be tough, but yes, it's irrelevant. Frankly, there's nothing in what the OP has said that convinces me that he 'gets it', even though it appears that he will 'do the right thing'. In fact, in this last post of his, he's made it clear that he's going to do what's in his own best interest, and the fact that it happens to also be the right thing to do is irrelevant. It was irrelevant when he decided to begin betraying his wife, and it's still irrelevant now that he's decided to end the betrayal. > Innews:dc77c453-d30b-42ce-8c29-d02262b05921@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com, > mr_sbr <mrsbr_...@hotmail.com> mused: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > irrelevant when he decided to begin betraying his wife, and it's > still irrelevant now that he's decided to end the betrayal. Sometimes doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is good enough to get the ball rolling. You stop drinking because of a DWI, you stop cheating for fear of getting caught, you stop doing drugs because you get fired for flunking a drug test. All may motivate a person to seek help yet not address the reason for the behavior, but that first step to doing the right thing (recovery) its recognizing the behavior. Hopefully that person can find out the root of the behavior as they continue to avoid that behavior.....but stopping is the first step. I know this may be a fundamental difference in philosophy between you and I and have lead to disagreements over the years, but I do understand your point. I just know from personal experience that for me at least, putting a stop to the the wrong behaviors was the only thing to give me perspective on the situation to address the root problems. Everybody else's millage may vary. In news:25d170c9-5a65-4394-81db-9e106bdc7853@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, mr_sbr <mrsbr_175@hotmail.com> mused: >> Innews:dc77c453-d30b-42ce-8c29-d02262b05921@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com, >> mr_sbr <mrsbr_...@hotmail.com> mused: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > situation to address the root problems. Everybody else's > millage may vary. I agree that whatever it took for you to get to where you are, it worked, because your first post to the OP, among others that I've read from you, tells me that we're almost exactly on the same page when it comes to infidelity. So I'll have hope for the OP as well. I'm just not as optimistic as you that it's generally a good way to 'salvation'. Good posts. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > difficult to break off the affair, but not nearly as difficult > as what will happen if I am discovered, or if my marriage ends. It's too bad that you don't seem to get it yet. You began betraying your wife for what you perceived was in your best interests back then, and you've continued to betray her with only your best interests in mind, and now, if you follow through on ending your betrayal, it seems that the only reason you'll be doing so is again, because of your best interests. Truth, loyalty, trust, commitment, and the pain that you will bring to your wife seem not to enter your decision making process at all. That does not bode well for the future. > It's too bad that you don't seem to get it yet. You began betraying > your wife for what you perceived was in your best interests back [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > decision making process at all. That does not bode well for the > future. You are right, it does not bode well for the future. I understand loyalty, as I have stood by my spouse through some very difficult times in the past 13 years. Our marriage has had to endure more difficult than average circumstances in a short time. Trust and truth are shaky, and that hinges on some underlying problems in the marriage. I won't claim that I am not a part of those problems, but my spouse is part of those problems as well. I am growing to understand that I have to take responsibility for what I do, regardless of what my spouse does. My partner is insecure and jealous and has been so from the beginning of our marriage. In the past, I have not even been able to talk to my partner about co-workers of the opposite sex without the insinuations and resentment arising. Unfortunately, that has set the tone for the marriage. Some days the marriage is great, and then there are others when the problems com to the surface and I just think that the marriage is over and has been over for quite some time. I am inclined to stick it out. For many reasons, because we have a life together and children together and because we have invested our lives in this, dysfunctional as it may seem. I don't expect things to be perfect. I think when you put people in a home together, there is bound to be conflict. But ... what happened? How did I end up here? Obviously, I know. I didn't expect the affair to happen, but I can't say that I didn't intend for it to happen. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix it. > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > can't say that I didn't intend for it to happen. I'm just trying > to figure out how to fix it. I won't belabor the point I made earlier to you except to say that there's nothing in what you just posted that's changed my mind. As to fixing 'the affair', whatever that means, it's as simple as not having gotten into the betrayal in the first place. Simply stop. Every time you have a communication with the OW, every time you see her, every time you are intimate with her, you have once again betrayed your DW. There's only one communication left to have, and that's to tell the OW that it's over, that you can't betray your DW like that anymore, and that there will be no contact between you anymore. The fact that you think you've got to 'try' to 'figure out' how to 'fix' it, is just a continuation of the ridiculous rationalizations by which you justified the betrayals in the first place. > Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair has filled > in my life - what is it that I am not getting from my marriage that I am > finding elsewhere? Or what is it you are trying to avoid in your marriage? Deepening intimacy, perhaps? Affairs are not always about what is missing. Sometimes they are about something positive that is overwhelmingly there, and increasing.... and even if it is all good, it is scary. So you introduce a third person to create a triangle and buy yourself some stability and distance. And sometimes it has absolutely zero to do with your partner, and everything to do with you. Maybe you are avoiding major emotional work you need to do for yourself. What age are the kids? Are they at a major milestone - like going into school or leaving the nest? Have you moved recently? Has a loved one died or become ill? Your parents, perhaps? What happened in your family of origin, when your mom was your age now? jen Pumpkins <pumpk...@not.valid.com> wrote: > Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair > has filled in my life - what is it that I am not getting from my > marriage that I am finding elsewhere? What you are finding is a way for your inner knuckle-dragger to express itself instead of acting like a stand-upright person who faces the real issues in their relationship. You'd rather act like a clod than face the reality of your marriage. Either that, or you're just a cold-hearted cretin who doesn't care who gets hurt as long as you get your jollies. > Pumpkins <pumpk...@not.valid.com> wrote: >> Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you're just a cold-hearted cretin who doesn't care who gets hurt > as long as you get your jollies. Why does everyone think the OP is a man, when it's so obviously a woman? >> Pumpkins <pumpk...@not.valid.com> wrote: >>> Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Why does everyone think the OP is a man, when it's so obviously a > woman? I'm with you, but I'm not sure why. Perhaps it was a combination of the language used and this: "Maybe that is what made it so appealing in the first place, not the fact that we can talk, but the fact that we can talk without the voices of children to interrupt or the phone ringing." > > Pumpkins <pumpk...@not.valid.com> wrote: > >> Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Why does everyone think the OP is a man, when it's so obviously a woman? I couldn't figure it out myself, so I stayed gender neutral in my posts, thank you very much. Vickie > "Rog'" <rcblinnNoSpam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >> What you are finding is a way for your inner knuckle-dragger [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> you're just a cold-hearted cretin who doesn't care who gets hurt >> as long as you get your jollies. > Why does everyone think the OP is a man, when it's so obviously > a woman? I tried to keep my post (above) gender-neutral. Admittedly, some of my perjorative terminology is commonly used to describe male behavior; however, I would submit that, in this case, its equally applicable to a woman... knuckle-dragger, cretin, getting her jollies. > Why does everyone think the OP is a man, when it's so obviously a woman? The only reasons either why I see are very cliche' - I have been called "Pumpkin" by a girlfriend back in my single days but I've never heard any man refer to himself as Pumpkin and definitely not Pumpkins. Since the account was apparently opened anonymously specificly for this discussion it's a self depricating term. I can, just barely, imagine a woman using such a term anonymously specificlly for anonymity. I can't imagine a man even thinking up such a handle unless he's a farmer who grows them as a crop. There are men who won't view it as an affair until it is consumated. There are women who will view it as an affair as soon as it includes emotional attachment independent of consumation. Both extremes are very stereotyped. Both hints are weak but they are enough to carry a guess for me. Not that it really matters if the OP is male, female or whatever. Neuter drone bees can't type and we wouldn't have enough in common to discuss their family situations ... > Pumpkins <pumpk...@not.valid.com> wrote: >> Mostly I've been trying to figure out what purpose the affair [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you're just a cold-hearted cretin who doesn't care who gets hurt > as long as you get your jollies. Please DO try to keep up with the times, and pretending to be an old fogie. Affairs are perfectly acceptable today, in case you haven't heard. See, it's all about the ME ME ME generation today, as you fully well know. And as I said before, it's sooo good for the late nite comedians on TV, because it is sooo cool and acceptable today. Doesn't even raise an eyebrow anymore. Viva Le Nouveau Age De Enlightenmente (aka - anything goes) |
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