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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / June 2008



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Divorce Statistics in Australia

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Doug Laidlaw - 26 Jun 2008 01:37 GMT
Recent comments about divorce rates sent me looking.

When Australia introduced no-fault divorce, at the same time it set up the
Australian Institute of Family Studies.  In 2006, they published a PDF
leaflet at http://www.aifs.gov.au/afrc/pubs/newsletter/n2pdf/n2d.pdf

From the histogram by blocks of 5 years on page 2:

The peak years are ages 25-34 (about 23 per 1000 couples);
Below age 29, more women divorce than men;
From age 30, more men divorce than women;
Although the margins continue through the age groups, they are relatively
small (mostly 3-5 per 1000 couples.)

I wonder if the anti-women brigade have seen these figures?

Doug L.
Doug Freyburger - 26 Jun 2008 16:42 GMT
> Recent comments about divorce rates sent me looking.
>
> When Australia introduced no-fault divorce, at the same time it set up the
> Australian Institute of Family Studies.  In 2006, they published a PDF
> leaflet at
> http://www.aifs.gov.au/afrc/pubs/newsletter/n2pdf/n2d.pdf

It shows a vast increase when the no fault law went
into effect.  That looks like pent up demend.  It does not
show long term effects.

> From the histogram by blocks of 5 years on page 2:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I wonder if the anti-women brigade have seen these figures?

Since it does not list who initiated the divorces nor why at
doesn't address those issues IMO.  But it does say if you
want a stable marriage, marry a woman who's already past
30.
Bill in Co - 26 Jun 2008 17:48 GMT
>> Recent comments about divorce rates sent me looking.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> want a stable marriage, marry a woman who's already past
> 30.

Isn't the consensus that, more often than not, the women may have initiated
it, but the men often precipitated it?
Doug Freyburger - 26 Jun 2008 20:24 GMT
> > Since it does not list who initiated the divorces nor why at
> > doesn't address those issues IMO ...
>
> Isn't the consensus that, more often than not, the women may have initiated
> it, but the men often precipitated it?

I've read some rants of the "anti-women brigade" that women
initiate most divorces but haven't double checked the claim.
Doug L's citation does not address it.

It doesn't give any stats on who precipitated divorces and I
don't think it's practical to gather that data objectively.  With
no fault divorce who precipitated it gets lost in the testimony
that might or might not be objective and cases settled out of
court don't have enough material to guess in many cases.

With no fault there doesn't even need to be an instigator.  I
have friends who were married.  One was sued.  They did an
uncontested divorce immediately to protect the assets of
the partner not being sued.  Neither in the couple instigated
that divorce.  In fact they never separated and eventually
remarried after the court case was gone.
Doug Laidlaw - 27 Jun 2008 01:46 GMT
>>> Recent comments about divorce rates sent me looking.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Isn't the consensus that, more often than not, the women may have
> initiated it, but the men often precipitated it?

That is exactly what those figures question.  In a fault jurisdiction,
theoretically, the opposite partner initiated it.  Unfortunately, it does
challenge Emma Anne's joking statement (which my wife supports,) that the
husbands need a lady in the house to put it on a list for them, and the
lady of the house has left.

To Doug: The histogram has two colored bars, one for husband-initiated and
one for wife-initiated divorces.  If you are asking "who initiated the
separation?", no, it doesn't give that.  The divorce application has a
place for who decided that the marriage was over, but that isn't the same
thing.

You are probably right about pent-up demand.  The fault concept involves
name-calling and hurtful behaviour in Court that ruins all hope of future
co-operation.  Women in particular hated it, and how can you talk
objectively together about the children's future afterwards?  The children
suffer as a result.  In 1961, we introduced 5 years separation as an
experiment in no-fault, and gave an option to existing cases to convert.
Everybody flocked to it.  The 1981 Act brought it down to one year.  They
were talking about bringing more fault back into property, but not into the
divorce itself.  The theme is to maintain the respect of both parties for
each other, and to see beyond any knee-jerk reaction.  I agree that some
men and women are either hopeless or plain damaging, and don't deserve
that, but they are the minority.

Doug, I am a firm believer in the concept that what you perceive isn't
necessarily true in the abstract, although it is true for you.  At the same
time, there is other anecdotal evidence that things are more one-sided in
the U.S.  Men here have a preconception that they have no hope in custody
cases.  The Chief Judge pointed out that in contested cases, the father
wins more often than the mother.  Shared custody is becoming more popular,
and the system allows for it, although it wouldn't be awarded in a contest,
because the issue in a contest is unfitness.

If you want an obedient, servile wife, you will find one anywhere, and look
for those characteristics, disregarding age.  I don't; I want an equal
partner.

Doug L.
Doug Freyburger - 27 Jun 2008 19:08 GMT
> To Doug: The histogram has two colored bars, one for husband-initiated and
> one for wife-initiated divorces.

No it doesn't.  It has a histogram of who *experienced*
divorce by age.  It includes an explanation "a difference that
reflects the fact that women tend to marry at a younger age
than men".  The difference is a reflection that men and
women don't always marry spouses the same age, not who
initiated the paperwork.

> If you are asking "who initiated the
> separation?", no, it doesn't give that.

Interesting difference - separation vs divorce.  But in a way
that distinction does not matter.  For either divorce or
separation, the anti-women brigade insist that it is women
who predominantly make that choice.  Decide to separate
or decide to divorce.  The PDF file does not mention either.

> The divorce application has a
> place for who decided that the marriage was over, but that isn't the same
> thing.

Okay.  If one spouse separated, the other might file
because of abandonment.  That doesn't really work in
no-fault terms because abandonment is a fault based
divorce cause ...

Where the anti brigade misses is who's actions really
started it all.  If the husbands a utter jerk the way so many
antis seem, who would blame the wife for moving out once
she realized the initial nice guy was a short term act?

> You are probably right about pent-up demand.  The fault concept involves
> name-calling and hurtful behaviour in Court that ruins all hope of future
> co-operation.  Women in particular hated it,

Your statement does go with the anti brigade's lament
in that case.  Before when fault was needed women did
not have the option of simply giving up for no reason
that would have held up in court.  Now they do.  Lacking
good stats who's to say how often men also take that
option?  The cliche dead beat dad comes from such
abandonment.

> ....  They
> were talking about bringing more fault back into property, but not into the
> divorce itself.

That's an interesting concept.  If all you really did was
walk out, why get assigned any money?  If you really
got adandoned why should the deserter keep the money?
Check.

> The theme is to maintain the respect of both parties for
> each other, and to see beyond any knee-jerk reaction.  I agree that some
> men and women are either hopeless or plain damaging, and don't deserve
> that, but they are the minority.

And yet kids are fought over in court.  Everyone with a heart
hates that fact.

> Doug, I am a firm believer in the concept that what you perceive isn't
> necessarily true in the abstract, although it is true for you.

Not just there are two sides to any story, his and hers,
but there are at least 3.  His, hers, what really happened
if you has a video camera going the whole time.  Plus the
viewpoint of the neighbor who heard shouting through the
walls and the other neighbor who only saw civility while the
family was out in the back yard, and on and on.  But we
all think our story is the story ...
Bill in Co - 27 Jun 2008 22:01 GMT
>> To Doug: The histogram has two colored bars, one for husband-initiated
>> and
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
> family was out in the back yard, and on and on.  But we
> all think our story is the story ...

I don't.   I've come to realize that none of us ever has the real complete
story - the Whole Truth (assuming there even is such a thing), since all we
can ever do is filter it through our own *PERCEPTIONS*.
 
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