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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / July 2008To forgive is to understand
I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, 10% life stressors, and 80% medical misfortunes. And i fear, that though the non-medical 20% have changed, and i am no longer in his life, the medical problems will remain the same, or get worse. Erin Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are not responsible for him, his happiness or his physical health. Let go, let go, let go. You were his spouse, not his mother. He is a grown man. If he wants to take care of himself, or let himself go down hill, or even deliberately damage his health, that is HIS choice, and it has never been your responsibility - and now you don't even have the selfish view of a spouse to justify your concern (i.e. as a spouse, you don't want to lose your partner or have their lives blighted sooner than necessary by neglect of their bodies). M. Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are > not responsible for him, his happiness or his physical health. Let go, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > M. But that's just it Mary, the 10% personality is that he has a childish personality, which is very dangerous for handling depression and being compliant on your own. He looks like he is not taking his meds-- very skinny; or he may be ill. I know that it is HIS problem. Do you think it's possible that his "soulmate" will help? I sort of hope so actually; but i worry that she may be a Scientologist-- big trouble. Let go-- right, actually he seems to be happier without me. I know why-- nobody to nag him. That's OK for me- nagging is hard work. Erin > Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Erin On the other hand, if he has liver failure, then the metabolism of imipramine will be delayed leading to toxic symptoms, such as tachycardia, vomiting, somonolescence, dizzy spells, and others.... I think he should see a psychiatrist with specialization in psychopharmacology. That's my opinion. There is nothing I can do because nobody will tell him this except my friends and relatives. Who knows, maybe some "enemies" have told him at work too. I just think it is socially irresponsible, perhaps even criminal to let a person try to take his life without vigilant monitoring and a referral to a specialist. Don't people care anymore? Or am I so irrational? Erin >> Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: >> > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Erin Make sure his life insurance policy is up to date. > >> Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > >> > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Make sure his life insurance policy is up to date. LOL! Good one:-) Erin >>> Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: >>> > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Make sure his life insurance policy is up to date. Erin, are you a doctor? I think that you have some medical or scientific qualifications. You need to let him be himself. Or get him to a doctor. Don't just read things and say that it sounds like him. My wife was reading a biography of Princess Diana. The author suggested that Diana had "borderline personality syndrome" and listed about a dozen indicators, like the list of indicators of depression. The author also said that Diana was "like a child looking in a shop window." I commented that I had often felt like that. That was good enough for my wife, who is a pharmacist. My psychologist at the time said that he could pick a BPD case coming in the door, and I was totally unlike one. As for the symptoms, my wife could find only two in the list anyway. Depression makes me feel isolated in the way described. I relayed to my G.P. another of my wife's "diagnoses" and he replied: "Tell her to stick to being a pharmacist, and stop trying to be a doctor." I suggest that you should do likewise. It is reasonable to keep DH under observation, and act as soon as he shows suicidal tendencies, but you can't institutionalise him just because a possibility exists. There isn't room in the institutions to do that. His "soulmate" may have strange beliefs, but if she wants to keep him, she will watch over his health as much as you would. If she can't pick up danger signals, her female friends will. I am amazed at how in the mixed socials here, the widows look after the widowers, regardless of any relationship. Doug L. > >>> Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > >>> > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > Doug L. No, i am not a doctor. Any diagnoses that are known re: DH come from his doctor. The problem is that he did not follow his dr.'s medical advice and has been non-compliant with his medication. Given the horrible side effects, that can be sympathized with. My only advice (in the past-- we no longer talk medicine and i no longer give advice) I did nag him to see a specialist in depression psychopharmacology. As for me, I did succeed in getting unaddicted from benzodiazepines by joining a huge advocacy group on line (benzo.org.uk); actually my dr. congratulated me in succeeding-- this was at a time when doctors were not aware of the addiction potential of benzos. But I have never prescribed a drug to my DH or any medical treatment; my advice was that his case is very difficult and having tried 25-30 different antidepressants, with no success and with severe consequences, that he might benefit from seen a psychyatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology. Now, he is on his own, and at his doctor's supervision. I do hope for the best, because he looks very ill, and report auditory hallucinations, which unfortunately, to his dr. he described as the interpetation of an air fan-- two different stories. That's social phobia and shyness-- but there is nothing I can do about that. I know that the drug he takes makes you gain a lot of weight and through the 27 yrs. he took it he was overweight-- recently (a few yrs.) he looks emaciated and his skin looks yellow-- could that be exercise? I say nothing to him except if he ever wants my assistance to take a cab to the hospital not to hesitate to give me a call. But I don't interfere with his doctors and him. He knows my opinion anyway. Erin > > >>> Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > > >>> > Erin, his medical problems are exactly that - HIS PROBLEMS. You are [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > > Erin Shucks!!! it could also be the benzos--- if you stop suddenly on these things all hell breaks loose and the effects can last for years or forever; i forgot about that altogether-- Erin In news:735d9b96-203e-47bb-b3cd-ce73c893a340@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Erin <squiggle@sympatico.ca> mused: > No, i am not a doctor. Any diagnoses that are known re: DH come > from his doctor. The problem is that he did not follow his dr.'s > medical advice and has been non-compliant with his medication. > Given the horrible side effects, that can be sympathized with. I've hardly ever been able to have sympathy for never been able to have any sympathy for people who make the decision to put themselves in a given situation. I have had lots of sympathy for people who end up in bad situations for having made decisions that were bad to some degree, but that's different. For instance, depending upon the circumstances, I might feel very badly for someone who decides to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and they are injured more badly than they would otherwise have been had they worn a one. It's arguable that they took a calculated risk, and so they deserve what they get, but I think that's too cold, and overly simplistic. However, if someone knows that they will burn their hand if they touch a stove, and they touch the stove anyway, then I just can't muster any sympathy for them. If your DH generally knows what will happen if he doesn't take his meds, and then he chooses not to take his meds, then I can't have that much sympathy for him. > In > news:735d9b96-203e-47bb-b3cd-ce73c893a340@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > happen if he doesn't take his meds, and then he chooses not to take > his meds, then I can't have that much sympathy for him. It's shyness -- that's the problem. Erin Erin fretted that the new significant other could be a Scientologist, and thus not take on the parental role of nagging Erin's ex to take his medication. Mary responds: Honestly Erin, listen to yourself. He doesn't want you to mother him. Quit it already. Who cares if he takes his medication - it is his problem. If he gets sick, its his problem as well. Erin then wrote: Blah, blah etc. etc. about all the dire things that might be happening to her exes health, and how he needs a shrink, and then mopes because she can't make him do what she wants him to do. Mary responds: So....control is what this is REALLY about. He won't do what you want him to do, and the lack of control over him makes you nuts. At the core, you keep protesting that you know he's not your problem, but you can't stop picking at the fact that you aren't in charge. Erin finally wrote: I just think it is socially irresponsible, perhaps even criminal to let a person try to take his life without vigilant monitoring and a referral to a specialist. Don't people care anymore? Or am I so irrational? Mary responds: I'm mom of three under 18. In this world, I'm in charge of me and my actions, including looking after myself (or not). i'm also in charge of the aforesaid three minor kids until they are legally adults. At that point, ready or not, I can't make them do anything. I hope I will have good relationships with them, and thus have a degree of influence over their actions, but hey, they don't have to ask me for advice, and they certainly don't have to follow anything I suggest. I'm married to their father, and believe me, I have some influence, and I make suggestions, but I can't make another adult do anything they really don't want to do, including him! I also don't have the time and energy to worry about why other people won't look after themselves. I could make myself crazy in short order wondering why assorted people I know don't lose weight, quit smoking, exercise, take their diabetes seriously, deal with their booze or drug problems and on and on and on. However, I let it go because it is not my business. Erin, I think you need to go to some sort of support group so you get that his behaviour belongs to him. You didn't cause it, and you can't fix it. You are giving yourself way too muchy credit as well as too much blame. You are so enmeshed, it isn't healthy for you...particularly since he's let it be known he doesn't want you to monitor, fret, nag and otherwise hang around like he's three. You are also using up a lot of energy fuming that he won't listen. Look after yourself. Take charge of your own happiness, your own situation, and your own future. That should be enough of a full time occupation for anyone. M Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > Erin fretted that the new significant other could be a Scientologist, > and thus not take on the parental role of nagging Erin's ex to take [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > M Thanks Mary. I hope you will be pleased to know that I have not given him any medical advice or even had the usual husband/wife relations with him now for a year. We are separated. We are good friends. Paradoxically, he comes and asks me for advice now-- but do i give it to him -- NO! I say, "i think you should do what your doctor says and what you think is best." Boy, is that hard to say, when he's complaining of auditory hallucinations, vomiting, and nausea. But i say it. You are right about control-- but I come from a family and a culture where that kind of control-- advice and asking how you are and taking care of someone, is considered the decent thing to do. But it doesn't matter anymore now, because we are not living together. He is indeed taking care of himself (looks like he has some kind of disease, but hey -- none of my business). BTW, I am the same with my pets and my family-- but they are far more controlling than me. It's just a cultural bias. It has nothing to do with malice or Freudian analysis. Erin > Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > > Erin fretted that the new significant other could be a Scientologist, [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Erin p.s. and btw, my gut feeling tells me that when someone no longer wants your concern and affection for them, it's because they do not wish to be obliged to return in kind; Erin > I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through > in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Erin I don't understand why forgiveness is important to you. Fill > > I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through > > in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I don't understand why forgiveness is important to you. > Fill Heh, he doesn't either. Erin > I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through > in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, > 10% life stressors, and 80% medical misfortunes. > And i fear, that though the non-medical 20% have changed, > and i am no longer in his life, the medical problems will > remain the same, or get worse. Something tells me you're not remotely close to forgiving him ... Don't look or listen to closely; you might find a surprise at the other end of that rainbow when other more positive and helpful folks bring enlightening rainbows into his life. What then??? > > I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through > > in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > end of that rainbow when other more positive and helpful folks bring > enlightening rainbows into his life. What then??? Actually, i would be happy for him; just because i am hurt doesn't mean i want him to be sick or miserable. Erin > Actually, i would be happy for him; just because i am hurt > doesn't mean i want him to be sick or miserable. Sadly, based only on posting history you've been hurting way to long... >> Actually, i would be happy for him; just because i am hurt >> doesn't mean i want him to be sick or miserable. > > Sadly, based only on posting history you've been hurting way too long... We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) > We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) When we move at an unusually slow emotional pace that typically means somethings amiss... There are traditional periods and stages of death, marriage and relationship breakup remorse... do some home work! Course, its also possible you don't want the truth making your perception on the subject tainted by your life experiences. If that's so, your statement "we all move at our own pace" would be a justification for your own unhealthy pace and or behavior. >> We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > so, your statement "we all move at our own pace" would be a > justification for your own unhealthy pace and or behavior. I'm keeping up with some of the competition (looking at my pet snail on my desk :-) Besides, I'd rather be the turtle, than the rabbit. Or so it appears. > >> We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > desk :-) > Besides, I'd rather be the turtle, than the rabbit. Or so it appears. Speaking of healthy, i really wish i could smoke again; i think everything fell apart when i succeeded in quitting a pack-a-day at the tender age of twenty-four; Erin >>>> We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Erin I sometimes miss it. Sometimes. (was also one pack a day, many, many, moons ago - back around the time of the sinking of the Titanic, give or take) > >>>> We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - i like pet snails On Jul 20, 5:31 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Erin wrote: > > Bill in Co wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - i like pet snails But you best keep them away from your salvia. V > On Jul 20, 5:31 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Really? do salvia keep them away, V? I am a new gardner. Mom never did flowers. I started about 5 years ago (yeah, remember I'm almost 50) so advice is always good But I do remember hiking the Appl. Trail one day waking up and there was a big old slug (not snail, but slug) and thinking of Coleridge "Rime of Ancient Mariner" love 'em all' I do like snails trails On Jul 21, 8:36 pm, "Vickie" <vkraj...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "phelbooth" <phelbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Really? do salvia keep them away, V? ________ No! The snails will eat your salvia, not the other way around. And don't clip em back till Spring, if they hang on. I can't seem to keep em around for more than a year, sadly. I am a new gardner. Mom never did flowers. I started about 5 years ago (yeah, remember I'm almost 50) so advice is always good ___________ I love to garden, but far from an experienced gardener. My garden is shady so I don't get to pick the real colorful flowers. My favorite is hydrangea, but I can't grow it for the life of me! But I do remember hiking the Appl. Trail one day waking up and there was a big old slug (not snail, but slug) and thinking of Coleridge "Rime of Ancient Mariner" love 'em all' I do like snails trails _________ :-) V >>>>>> We all move at our own pace, grasshopper. :-) >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>>> Besides, I'd rather be the tortoise than the hare. Or, so it appears. (corrected) >>> Speaking of healthy, i really wish i could smoke again; i think >>> everything [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > i like pet snails LOL. And at least I think I got it corrected above this time. Duh to me. > > Actually, i would be happy for him; just because i am hurt > > doesn't mean i want him to be sick or miserable. > > Sadly, based only on posting history you've been hurting way to long... Well, nobody cares, and when nobody cares about someone who has been hurt, do you know what they do to them..... they hurt them even more. I am not going to push my luck. Yes to everyone who loves me so much, including my husband, and to everyone else. Life is short you know.... may as well make the best of it, and it's best not to be selfish either. Erin >>> Actually, i would be happy for him; just because i am hurt >>> doesn't mean i want him to be sick or miserable. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > loves me so much, including my husband, and > to everyone else. Life is short you know.... Sometimes I think it's too long, already. >Well, nobody cares, and when nobody cares about someone who >has been hurt, do you know what they do to them..... they hurt them >even more. I am not going to push my luck. I would suggest you write the above statement down exactly as is and present it to your counselor. If they don't know you feel that way, they should. > >Well, nobody cares, and when nobody cares about someone who > >has been hurt, do you know what they do to them..... they hurt them [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > present it to your counselor. If they don't know you feel that way, > they should. I am not quite suicidal yet. :-) I was just venting, really my life is not that bad at all and things are looking up with the help of the counsellor-- very nice person, and obviously my husband wants to mend the marriage. Sorry, to write such a downer- i don't like this humidity and it makes me irritable. I take the tone of it back. Erin >> I forgive my husband for the trouble we went through >> in the past ~five years. I think it was 10% character, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > end of that rainbow when other more positive and helpful folks bring > enlightening rainbows into his life. What then??? Enlightening rainbows sounds nice. I think I saw one recently in The Wizard of Oz. |
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