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Family Forum / Marriage / Marriage / September 2008a friend?
He's not spending much time with me; just goes through the necessary courtesies and then runs to his computer at his apt.; makes me feel kind of insecure; i guess that's my problem? the occasional roses for accidents and birthdays from the grocery store, seem like a token to me; I'm worried, and i can't make any complaints because the therapist said i should try not to nag. I used to like our friendship; he used to be on my side; :-( Erin > He's not spending much time with me; > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > accidents and birthdays from the grocery > store, seem like a token to me; No, your problem isn't just the insecurity. Your problem is can you and your husband have the sort of relationship you want to have? And, if not, can you be happy with the sort of relationship you _do_ have? And if you aren't happy with it, are you going to continue it anyway? > I'm worried, and i can't make any complaints > because the therapist said i should try > not to nag. I used to like our friendship; > he used to be on my side; :-( Sounds like something to bring up in therapy. > > He's not spending much time with me; > > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Sounds like something to bring up in therapy. It's computer addiction - the therapist commented on it. I wonder if there is a cure-- this is really heavy duty computer work for more than 15 year day in day out, and now into the weekends into the night -- no vacations-- just computers. Poor guy. Erin > > > He's not spending much time with me; > > > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > It's computer addiction - the therapist commented on it. Without getting sidetracked into the question of what computer addiction is, what you are doing here is the following: "I want something I'm not getting from my husband. Aha, it's a medical problem: computer addiction. So maybe we can fix that." This is an indirect approach and one which hasn't served you well recently. Better to talk to your husband (in therapy if necessary) about what sort of relationship you'd like to have, whether you can have that, and if not, what then. > > > > He's not spending much time with me; > > > > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > about what sort of relationship you'd like to have, whether you can > have that, and if not, what then. It's hard to fix after this time and no i am not inventing it-- the therapist picked it up -- it is definitely a problem and the addiction is getting worse: http://www.computeraddiction.com/ Erin > > > > > He's not spending much time with me; > > > > > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > picked it up -- it is definitely a problem and the addiction is > getting worse: Again, I don't want to get into an argument about whether computer addiction exists, or whether your husband has it. I'll just repeat my words: Without getting sidetracked into the question of what computer addiction is, what you are doing here is the following: "I want something I'm not getting from my husband. Aha, it's a medical problem: computer addiction. So maybe we can fix that." This is an indirect approach and one which hasn't served you well recently. Better to talk to your husband (in therapy if necessary) about what sort of relationship you'd like to have, whether you can have that, and if not, what then. > > > > > > He's not spending much time with me; > > > > > > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > about what sort of relationship you'd like to have, whether you can > have that, and if not, what then. I agree Dough, that's a sensible idea. Erin > I don't want to get into an argument about whether computer > addiction exists Suffice to say, degrees exist; and I won't argue the subject either. Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. Its not a stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. Constant posting online feeds a need... just like other addictions. The question is what's causing the need and why isn't the need being addressed. > > I don't want to get into an argument about whether computer > > addiction exists [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > posting online feeds a need... just like other addictions. The question > is what's causing the need and why isn't the need being addressed. Of course people post here for a reason. And those who post frequently have their reasons for posting frequently. That doesn't imply an addiction. Back to Mr Erin - Erin focusses not on what she would like her husband to do (probably because she is unwilling to force the issue as her husband would rather leave her than do what she wants) but instead likes to externalize the problem to - his girlfriend - his medications - his illnesses - his doctors - and (in the post I replied to) his so-called computer addiction. This tactic gets her nowhere regardless of whether there is such a thing as computer addiction, and regardless of whether (if there is such a thing) her husband experiences it. > > > I don't want to get into an argument about whether computer > > > addiction exists [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > thing as computer addiction, and regardless of whether (if there is > such a thing) her husband experiences it. Well, i would not use these explanations if he didn't try to assure me over and over again that he loves me and he does not want a divorce and that his goal is to move back in soon. All he has to say is he is no longer interested in the marriage and it will be over. But that is the last thing on his mind-- so he says. Erin > Well, i would not use these explanations if he didn't try to assure me > over [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Erin Sounds to me as if he is dangling a carrot in front of your face cos he likes the sense of control he has over you. i.e. he doesn't want you but doesn't want to lose you either. That's not to say that there isn't potential for your relationship, just that as long as you are so dependent on him, he will not be back. So perhaps you're kind of a fall-back-on in case something else should fail. And perhaps he's waiting to see that in you which he used to see. - Michaela > > Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. Its not a > > stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. Constant [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That doesn't imply an addiction. For example I test positive for almost all of the symptoms of ADD/ADHD yet I've found a why to make my life work very well. With a life that works well calling it a "disorder" doesn't quite make sense and ASDT/FIET for Attention Span Deficit Trait and Focus Intensity Excess Trait just doesn't have the same buzz. Anyways, frequent posting is a coping mechanism that gives me higher total productivity at work. My attention is like a laser cannon mounted on an autorotating turret that has no off switch on its turret. I can focus on a task just so long beofe my focus has to snap elsewhere. Without posting I would try to hold focus longer and longer on the same target and end up spacing out. With posting I can focus on a work project until my mind is pushing to snap off of that project, rotate my focus to the posting window, focus there for a bit, then snap my focus back to the work task. Without that classic ADD/ADHD spacing out trait I end up with high productivity. Coping mechanisms aren't the same as addictions. Now computer games, I've shown addictive behavior patterns toward them. I need to be very strict with myself when I can start to play and what interuption will make me quit for the day. Absolutely no World of Warcraft for me. > Back to Mr Erin - Erin focusses not on what she would like her husband > to do (probably because she is unwilling to force the issue as her [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > thing as computer addiction, and regardless of whether (if there is > such a thing) her husband experiences it. Exactly. At least she's taken up calling them scenarios. At some level she knows it's not rational. Maybe eventually she'll decide that since it's not working she needs to try something else. In the meantime she pretends that separated is the same as married and focuses on her estranged legal spouse's words not actions. > > > Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. �Its not a > > > stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. �Constant [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > as married and focuses on her estranged legal spouse's words > not actions. Let me put the situation as simply as possible: something is the cause. We just don't know which or how many are-- assumptions are not enough-- some jump to the assumption that it's early childhood school habits, others say it's mid-life, others say, it's always been like that, others say it's withdrawal, he himself says it was temporary insanity, so i don't think it's irrational to wonder why someone had a critical crash like that, unless of course you are totally at peace with why things happen in the world - que sera sera kind of thing. Erin > > > > Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. �Its not a > > > > stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. �Constant [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Let me put the situation as simply as possible: something is the > cause. Perhaps the cause is that your husband is simply doing what he wants to do! He wants, for whatever reason, to stay married to you. But he also doesn't want to give you attention, and wants to be free to spend as much time with his girlfriend as he likes. Suppose that "scenario" applies. What would you do? > > > > > Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. �Its not a > > > > > stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. �Constant [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > Suppose that "scenario" applies. What would you do? It doesn't apply ... "girlfriend is married" and moved to another city. Something happened to him - drugs are high on my list because one-year withdrawal down to 0, is likely to cause suicidal depression; hence the attempt at hanging himself and the mania. The disappearance of the depression up Emergency team reinstatement is about as close as you can get to empirical proof in mental health treatment. Other factors contributed. This is a major problem in psychiatry - the chicken and the egg dilemma for skeptics though. Erin >>> Just notice of how often and how long some people post here. Its >>> not a stretch to think those same people are online elsewhere too. >>> Constant posting online feeds a need... just like other addictions. >>> The question is what's causing the need and why isn't the need >>> being addressed. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and Focus Intensity Excess Trait just doesn't have the same > buzz. Hmmm... a tao-type approach... Beautiful and congratulations on your outlook. It's not necessarily the "disorder" that is the problem. You've taken something that many would see as an obstacle and seen its advantages and turned it into a plus. Like the internet and MXit (I don't know if that's an international name), there're all these things and yes, they are potentially the cause of many problems, but it really depends on how educated and sussed we or our kids are when we/they set out to use these things. I think we often do that (use a potential obstacle as an aid), but seldom realise that is what we've done and take it for granted. I imagine that more often than not we allow ourselves to get hung-up on the things we don't manage to see in a positive light. So because we're hung-up on its negative aspects, we never distance ourselves sufficiently to see that we can use it to our advantage. > Anyways, frequent posting is a coping mechanism that gives > me higher total productivity at work. My attention is like a [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > as married and focuses on her estranged legal spouse's words > not actions. Nice post. - Michaela > It's computer addiction - the therapist commented on it. > I wonder if there is a cure-- this is really heavy duty > computer work for more than 15 year day in day out, > and now into the weekends into the night -- no vacations-- > just computers. Poor guy. I strongly suspect you're perceptions are tainted... listening to you, your DH seemingly has all types of issues and problems; and poor you... In news:0d054a3a-c728-4efe-a2d5-3c1b9805fd83@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Erin <squiggle@sympatico.ca> mused: > He's not spending much time with me; > just goes through the necessary courtesies [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > not to nag. I used to like our friendship; > he used to be on my side; :-( This is amazing to me. The behavior you described above was completely predictable before you took him back, and so clearly, you chose to put yourself in this situation, and yet, in this short time, you're already complaining about it. And what's worse, you're still blaming your therapist for your decision (i.e., not to nag) instead of realizing that it was just advice, and that the decision not to nag is yours. You really do not understand the concept of taking responsibility for your decions, do you. > In > news:0d054a3a-c728-4efe-a2d5-3c1b9805fd83@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > You really do not understand the concept of taking responsibility > for your decions, do you. I do, but it's complicated. He tells me he is sick and needs me, and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in our position AY. Furthermore, the counsellor thinks this marriage is one of the best she has seen, and we can hope for great improvement. As i said we paid for that advice, a lot of money and reliance on professional insight. Erin In news:19b9f6da-8e2a-4ee7-92f9-b964a36643a9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Erin <squiggle@sympatico.ca> mused: >> In >> news:0d054a3a-c728-4efe-a2d5-3c1b9805fd83@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I do, but it's complicated. No, it isn't. > He tells me he is sick and needs me, > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in > our position AY. But you've come here to ASM and vomited reams and reams of information about your life, and are clearly doing so in order to illicit opinions, and maybe even advice. And so to then reject those opinions on the basis that they are invalid because the person stating them isn't in your position seems rather silly to me. Certainly, you can reject opinions for any number of reasons, but some of those are silly, and this is one of them. What's really going on here, IMHO, is that you simply like being a victim. You put yourself right back in a situation which you knew would give you ample opportunity to whine, and complain about your circumstances. > Furthermore, the counsellor thinks this > marriage is one of the best she has seen, and we can hope for > great improvement. You've got to be kidding, right? Your marriage counselor thinks that the marriage that you've described here is one of the best she has seen? > As i said we paid for that advice, a lot of money and reliance > on professional insight. But it's up to you whether or not to accept that advice. You even were quite adamant that any decisions which YOU make were YOUR decisions. So is it your decision to accept your counselors advice, or not? If it is, then it's now your decision for which YOU must accept responsibility, no matter how you came to make it. > In > news:19b9f6da-8e2a-4ee7-92f9-b964a36643a9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > or not? If it is, then it's now your decision for which YOU must > accept responsibility, no matter how you came to make it. Once again, your confusion results from the lack of historical and personal proximity to the people you are speaking with. This is a deep problem among psychiatrists, and net counsellors. I know which problems are soluble and which are not. You don't. I am open to reading others' perspectives, in case my personality (which was described as domineering to the counsellor, and yeah she thought i was rather hard-headed-- the manner in which you speak has a lot to do with that btw) has warped my interpretation and perception of reality. My DH is so mild-mannered and speaks like a judge. He is very polite. I am very brusque when the topic is serious. Erin In news:672fe736-a72e-4d2d-a9ac-bff8b6567eb9@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, Erin <squiggle@sympatico.ca> mused: >> In >> news:19b9f6da-8e2a-4ee7-92f9-b964a36643a9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Once again, your confusion More insults noted. > results from the lack of historical > and personal proximity to the people you are speaking with. > This is a deep problem among psychiatrists, and net counsellors. > I know which problems are soluble and which are not. You don't. I know that the opinions I offer about relationships apply to anyone, including me. I know that our decsions are our decsions, no matter how we came to make them. I know that unhappiness springs from the inablity to accept responsibility for the decsions we make. And then I have my opinions of you based upon your posts here, and I've stated those as well. None of any of that requires any understanding of your particular circumstances, no matter how hard to try to lash out at me for having those opinions. [snip] > I do, but it's complicated. He tells me he is sick and needs me, > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As i said we paid for that advice, a lot of money and reliance > on professional insight. Okay, then, professional insight says that this is a great marriage, one of the best. Therefore, your perceptions are all wrong. He is on your side, he is your friend, the roses from the grocery store are not tokens but deep expressions of his love, his health is fine, the time he spends on his computer at his apartment has nothing to do with you, the woman whose company he appears to prefer to yours is a harmless friend. It's all good, so relax and enjoy your terrific marriage! Seriously, Erin, I don't know what you want anyone to say at this point. You start out saying, "I'm worried or upset about <this>". Someone posts that it's reasonable for you to be worried and/or upset and suggests you ought to think hard about what <that> means for your happiness, and within three posts you're defending your husband, defending your counselor, putting down the person who responded for having an opinion when they don't know every detail of your life, and so on. You don't want people to agree with you, you don't want people to argue with you, you want... what? Sarah > > I do, but it's complicated. �He tells me he is sick and needs me, > > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Sarah It's just that he's distracted all the time-- he's not there, know what i mean? A counsellor cannot see that because they are not with you 24/7; when he comes to visit he does what has to be done, and rushes out. No conversation, and very stiff at that. So, what do i want? I want things to be as they were before he started seeing counsellors, and the OW, and had the breakdown. He was more human then. Now, he complains of his health, he looks sick, and as he told me the only way he can rid anxiety is by being on the computer to distract himself. This is not an improvement in our life or his; this is a degeneration. I don't know what kind of therapy he's getting, but it has made him a very unhappy person. Erin > > > I do, but it's complicated. �He tells me he is sick and needs me, > > > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > conversation, > and very stiff at that. So why can't you _tell_ the counselor this, and _tell_ the counselor how you would like things to be. Don't focus on what you want him to _stop_ doing - focus on what you want him to _start_ doing. > > > > I do, but it's complicated. �He tells me he is sick and needs me, > > > > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Don't focus on what you want him to _stop_ doing - focus on what you > want him to _start_ doing. Apparently his has his own therapist and he says it helps him a lot-- but i don't ANY difference in his character; the only difference i see is that he has taken up exercising and if lose my cool, he does not pounce back; but you have to understand that this is easy to do when you are not living together and only seeing each other at most 30 min. per day-- the therapist in the meantime gets the credit. As for our marriage counsellor -- who really tried to see the common ground for us-- we have stopped because there is no use going further. He wants to stay at his apt. until next Spring and then he will come back. In the meantime we will try to stop his computer addiction by going to movies on a weekend or maybe out or supper. He has told me himself that there is no meaning in his life except the computers-- and i can see that. Marriage is an obstacle to his primary love now-- since his breakdown it has gotten worse, not better. Oh -- the meds; despite the fact that he no longer has depression, he blames the medication for all his troubles. To that i say nothing, because i cannot tolerate going through another possible suicide attempt. IMHO, he needs to see a psychiatrist who knows drugs-- not a psychologist. I do not tell him that-- it is what i firmly believe from experience. There is nothing to say to cognitive or Adlerian or Maslowian or any therapist about this -- only a doctor or psychiatrist can understand why the drugs he takes are making him ill, but treating his clinical depression. Why don't the psychologists refer him to an appropriate doctor? That would be a very helpful thing to do. Erin > > > > > I do, but it's complicated. �He tells me he is sick and needs me, > > > > > and we are interdependent after so many years-- you're not in [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > he has taken up exercising and if lose my cool, he does not pounce > back; Those sound like big differences to me. But what he gets out of his therapist is his business anyway, not yours. > but you have to understand that this is easy to do when you are not > living [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ground > for us-- we have stopped because there is no use going further. What on earth does that mean!? > Apparently his has his own therapist and he says it helps him a lot-- > but i don't ANY difference in his character; the only difference i see [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > wants to > stay at his apt. until next Spring and then he will come back. So. Despite his profound love for you, despite his desperation without you, despite his desire to reunite with you - he spends half an hour a day with you and isn't planning to come back at least until spring. And there's no point to continuing marriage counseling. Do you have the ability to detect bullshit AT ALL? Sarah > > Apparently his has his own therapist and he says it helps him a lot-- > > but i don't ANY difference in his character; the only difference i see [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Sarah Well, the therapist thought it was a congenial arrangement due to the lease and all, and if the therapist did not think it was bullshit, why should I? I'm being a very good girl, as i am sick of the grocery lists of faults i have and being called domineering, delusional, paranoid, and a bitch-- by relatives and professionals. Now they can't say anything as I am behaving. And it is very important that I cooperate, as I am bipolar and do not wish to rock the boat. Erin > > > Apparently his has his own therapist and he says it helps him a lot-- > > > but i don't ANY difference in his character; the only difference i see [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > and all, and if the therapist did not think it was bullshit, why > should I? Because it's bullshit, that's why. Why does the lease make a difference? He has the lease; it's a sunk cost. It doesn't get any less expensive if he sleeps there. If he keeps the apartment empty and moves back in with you, it will cost exactly the same amount of money. (I'm not even bringing up the possibility of a sublease here as I'm sure there is some complicated bullshit reason why that's not possible.) You're doing it again. Either the therapist is absolutely right and we must all trust without question in the advice of the therapist (is this the therapist you're not even seeing any more because it's pointless?) or we may question that advice. If we must all trust without question in the advice of the therapist, then you should do so, and put any doubts you have out of your head. Airing them here only means people will continue to offer heretical countersuggestions. If, on the other hand, there is the chance that the therapist is a person with his/her own opinion which may or may not be correct as opposed to an omniscient and omnibenevolent superbeing, then it's permissible to question, and to occasionally call bullshit. That doesn't mean you can't still play along with the therapist's suggestions if you feel that you need to do so to be seen as compliant, but the therapist is not here right now, you are not bound by law or ethics to this play-dumb thing you do, and *I'm* sure not. Sarah > > > > Apparently his has his own therapist and he says it helps him a lot-- > > > > but i don't ANY difference in his character; the only difference i see [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Sarah "heretical countersuggetions" -- that's cute; i suppose he could move back in right away-- maybe we are both scared that it is too early for it to work out; he does need to be alone for some time-- maybe because he is ill? That's another thing that worries me-- that he is ill, the drs. know, the therapist knows, everyone knows, but the illness is serious and they're not telling me-- is that possible? Tell me when i have run out of feasible scenarios, ok? :-) Erin In news:a1510e1b-9c54-46d7-98e7-dec7898731e6@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, Erin <squiggle@sympatico.ca> mused: > Tell me when i have run out of feasible scenarios, ok? :-) That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. > "heretical countersuggetions" -- that's cute; i suppose he could > move back in right away-- maybe we are both scared that it is > too early for it to work out; he does need to be alone for some time-- > maybe because he is ill? That's another thing that worries me-- that > he is ill, the drs. know, the therapist knows, everyone knows, but the > illness is serious and they're not telling me-- is that possible? It's possible. A lot of things are possible. I'd say the more pertinent question is, is it probable? I'm not sure I follow the logic anyway; why would a serious illness lead them to recommend he live alone in an apartment? Yes, obviously he could move back in right away. If you're scared it's too early for it to work out, how do you picture the situation changing over time? If you think things will be better in the spring, how will they be better and what steps are the two of you taking to get from here to there? > Tell me when i have run out of feasible scenarios, ok? :-) Um. Sarah > > "heretical countersuggetions" -- that's cute; i suppose he could > > move back in right away-- maybe we are both scared that it is [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Sarah He's getting medical tests soon - the symptoms are uncommon. Hey, i'm not paranoid -- just imaginative; Erin > > > "heretical countersuggetions" -- that's cute; i suppose he could > > > move back in right away-- maybe we are both scared that it is [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > He's getting medical tests soon - the symptoms are uncommon. > Hey, i'm not paranoid -- just imaginative; Oh, sure, he could have something wrong with him. The question is, is your scenario - he has something wrong with him, it's serious, everyone knows but you, and *this* is why he needs to live alone in an apartment - probable. And I'd say no. It doesn't make any more sense than the he-already-has-a-lease line of argument. That scenario strikes me not as paranoid, but as a fairly extreme example of wishful thinking, although for weird values of 'wishful thinking'. I would venture to suggest that the various medical causes you think are motivating his behavior are less painful for you to contemplate than the possibility that he doesn't really want to be around you for the same run-of-the-mill reasons that affect other marriages in trouble. You have repeatedly insisted that it is simply impossible that any of the issues that caused your split with your husband were internal to the marriage; they were, you are sure, ALL external (the friend, the stress, the illnesses, the medication withdrawal, the therapist, the sunspots, the alien abductions). Now that some of those problems are getting solved, you're finding it harder to explain his continued reluctance to resume your marriage as it was, so the other explanations have to carry more weight (he's not just ill! he's secretly dying! and everyone knows but me!). Sarah Sarah > > > > "heretical countersuggetions" -- that's cute; i suppose he could > > > > move back in right away-- maybe we are both scared that it is [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Sarah Uhm.... you're really good Sarah-- good analysis; very insightful and pragmatic; you may be right. I just hope not. Erin >Do you have the ability to detect bullshit AT ALL? I think the question is....do WE have the ability to detect bullshit at all?  SignatureLauri in WA > On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:45:00 -0700 (PDT), Sarah Lister > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Lauri in WA I think, where we've been well reinforced to detect, we can--even overdetect, to some extent. I watch AMC. There's this new female character, Randi, and she overdetects. Poor Franklin. I also think we absolutely cannot, at all, most of the time-- Makes me ask: If the other person is aware s/he's BSing us, is s/he more likely to be undetected? Or if the other person is unaware (repressed or just not caring), are we more likely to be BSed--like an osmosis of naivete? >> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:45:00 -0700 (PDT), Sarah Lister >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > overdetect, to some extent. I watch AMC. There's this new female > character, Randi, and she overdetects. Poor Franklin. AMC? Is that like TCM? I *love* the old classics from the 40's! (Sigh, I'm still waiting for Scotty to beam be over there, but I think he's asleep at the switch, cause I'm still stuck here). On Aug 19, 8:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:45:00 -0700 (PDT), Sarah Lister > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > (Sigh, I'm still waiting for Scotty to beam be over there, but I think he's > asleep at the switch, cause I'm still stuck here). lol Beams, All My Children. A chick soap from noon-1 daily, M-F, on ??? I think ABC. I TEVO (is that like VHS? :) it and watch in big stretches, like seven-ten episodes in a row. I just want you to know I drank red wine tonight. But I can't remember if that makes me an idiot, stoned, or drunk. I guess it depends on whose ideology you're buying into this night. Is it still Hot in CO? Better here--AC off today. Fill > On Aug 19, 8:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > think ABC. I TEVO (is that like VHS? :) it and watch in big stretches, > like seven-ten episodes in a row. I thought it was "American Movie Classics". Or maybe that doesn't exist anymore, making room for the likes of this newage dumbass crap, like Jerry Springer; stuff apparently for the masses with an I.Q. of 80. And that reminds me: "oh no, dear, it's spelled p-o-t-a-t-o-e, not "potato" (said by that dumbass politician). > I just want you to know I drank red wine tonight. But I can't remember > if that makes me an idiot, stoned, or drunk. I guess it depends on > whose ideology you're buying into this night. I like white wine, better. Less sweet, much more dry (usually). Just like my sense of humour (kudos to the Brits, for that sp.) > Is it still Hot in CO? Not so bad today. Maybe not even 90. > Better here--AC off today. > > Fill Still have it on, but it's a swamp (evaporative) cooler, and is CHEAP to run! Pennies to heaven... On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Aug 19, 8:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Still have it on, but it's a swamp (evaporative) cooler, and is CHEAP to > run! Pennies to heaven... Oh yah yah, sounding like a Yooper (is Yooper still around?) Yooper Boyka or someone? (Sorry if mis-spelled please done mine know insult) I live to close not to sound li,e Yoopie AMC was or is Am Mov Classics, like you say. But for my virtual reality, it's All My Children. Today, was boring, Adam Sr and Jr thinking how to take over a make-up Co. You don't care, really. I only care b/c of the really quite cool dynamics of ongoing narrative. Clarissa is my favorite book in all and forever. No it's not, I lied. But it is the book I'd take with me if I could have only one on a deserted (and let it be tropical) island. Yeah well let me tell you this newage dumbass crap makes room for some cool stuff! I liked VHS a lot. Didn't like DVDs as much--they were more in control of your time than vica versa, and when you're paying to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 days and read and listen to no sports really, and come back and watch the opening ceremonies, the gymnastics, the swimming, the track. I can 300x fast forward thru the rest and almost totally not hear the dum- basses who narrate this stuff. (The stuff narrated live is tolerable; that narrated de facto makes me want to throw a brick, or at least my errant-husband's-head, which seems like a brick these days, thru the TV screen.) POTATOE Tomatoe You say tomatoe I say tomahto See--I could never monitor a spelling bee. That sounds good enuf to get the image of the potato into my head. I'd circle the "e" in a first-year comp paper but...well...in and of itself, unless the student was writing about the genetic engineering of potatoes ?? in the US, I'd really not care much. Well OK in a final draft I'd care a bit. Kind of like "Hemmingway"--but that only bugs me if I've actually *taught* Hemingway for a few sessions. Otherwise, just a circle around the extra M, but yeah, it'd bug me more than Potatoe, to be truthful. Also your note about keeping things in check is bugging me. Like, "listen" because I haven't "listened" very well previously. Can I both hate you and love you for that? Certainly I needed to be told and to hear it. And I don't think it would have "got me" if not rooted in potential "reality" whatever that is. Pennies to heaven or from heaven? Fill > On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > cool stuff! I liked VHS a lot. Didn't like DVDs as much--they were > more in control of your time than vica versa, They were? Or are?? :-) > and when you're paying > to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 > days and read and listen to no sports really, and come back and watch > the opening ceremonies, the gymnastics, the swimming, the track. I can > 300x fast forward thru the rest and almost totally not hear the dum- > basses who narrate this stuff. (The stuff narrated live is tolerable; Barely. > that narrated de facto makes me want to throw a brick, or at least my > errant-husband's-head, which seems like a brick these days, thru the > TV screen.) > > POTATOE Get that damn E out of there!! Who do you think you are? Senator Dan Quayle? "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy..." :-) > Tomatoe > You say tomatoe [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > "listen" because I haven't "listened" very well previously. Can I both > hate you and love you for that? For sure. :-) > Certainly I needed to be told and to > hear it. And I don't think it would have "got me" if not rooted in > potential "reality" whatever that is. > > Pennies to heaven or from heaven? > Fill I stand corrected. :-) > > On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > > I stand corrected. :-) > > On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > They were? Or are?? :-) I don't watch DVDs or go to movies much. I'm terribly impatient during most of them. I thought the new Batman was just awful. Sure, I liked the effects and the Joker was awesome. Got that part in about five minutes. > > and when you're paying > > to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Quayle? > "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy..." :-) What is really funny is if you knew me in the other real life, and my other email account, you'd laugh about the potatoe thing even harder. (And no, looking up Philemina Potatoe at UW is not going to help you at all, lol) > > Tomatoe > > You say tomatoe [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I stand corrected. :-) Actually, I just wondered which you meant. One has to do with Abe Lincoln, I think (to heaven) and the other (from...) the song/film But, what I want to know is, were you able to make out my many typos in that bit about Yooper? I did that just to see if you could figure out meaning despite typos. (The rest of the posts typos are unintentional). As a matter of fact, form now on I'll trie to rutinely spell wrong and be not grammatical in all posts to you just to peeve you. J/K >>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > the effects and the Joker was awesome. Got that part in about five > minutes. I don't watch many DVDs, either. I *much* prefer the spontaneity of taking whatever comes into my living room, on HBO, or TCM, or CSPAN, or whatever, and not what I stick in the DVD player. And ditto for radio - I love the spontaneity and randomness of it, despite the advertising. >>> and when you're paying >>> to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Actually, I just wondered which you meant. One has to do with Abe > Lincoln, I think (to heaven) and the other (from...) the song/film The latter. > But, what I want to know is, were you able to make out my many typos > in that bit about Yooper? I did that just to see if you could figure > out meaning despite typos. I can. > (The rest of the posts typos are > unintentional). As a matter of fact, form now on I'll trie to rutinely > spell wrong and be not grammatical in all posts to you just to peeve > you. > > J/K Oh yeah??? You think so, eh?? :-) > >>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > whatever, and not what I stick in the DVD player. And ditto for radio - I > love the spontaneity and randomness of it, despite the advertising. Well that's what's nice about Tivo--you can ff thru the ads. I hate the ads. Truth time: I can watch old Alfred Hitchcock, Shirley Temple, and James Bond movies (over and over). I also can watch reruns of I Love Lucy endlessly, and I have all of this stuff on DVD. And I never ever miss AMC (the soap) and when I mess up the Tivo-ing of it I actually get snitty (to myself). > >>> and when you're paying > >>> to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Oh yeah??? You think so, eh?? :-)- Hide quoted text - Nah. I'd just ask ya to cut me slack since I'm a terrible speller and a great malapropism-er. But every now and then, you can expect an intentional, just so I can tell if you're not sleeping thru my post. (Why would anyone? I'm so TERRIBLY interesting......) Well, I guess it's 5:00 somewhere, so time to hit the single malt scotch. :) Will go so well with some hand rolled smoke. I'll probably be quite an idiot in an hour. Care to join me? :) What is real, anyway? > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - >>>>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > Well that's what's nice about Tivo--you can ff thru the ads. I hate the > ads. When the TV or radio ads come on, I temporarily switch to the other channel (like TCM for TV), and then when they're done, go back. (Usually they last for two or three minutes or so, and if I miss a bit, no big deal). > Truth time: I can watch old Alfred Hitchcock, Shirley Temple, and > James Bond movies (over and over). I also can watch reruns of I Love > Lucy endlessly, and I have all of this stuff on DVD. And I never ever > miss AMC (the soap) and when I mess up the Tivo-ing of it I actually > get snitty (to myself). I'd rather watch reruns of Ben Casey, but that's hard to find. :-) >>>>> and when you're paying >>>>> to watch action--ehy! But tevo, this is great. I could go away for 10 [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > Nah. I'd just ask ya to cut me slack since I'm a terrible speller and > a great malapropism-er. I'll try. :-) (Alas, I also am a victim of malapropisms sometimes, sad to say) > But every now and then, you can expect an > intentional, just so I can tell if you're not sleeping thru my post. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What is real, anyway? I don't know. Maybe it's all a Perception, in the Final Analysis. > >>>>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] > > I don't know. Maybe it's all a Perception, in the Final Analysis.- Hide quoted text - Ya think? You must have been a good pscyh teacher. But, as our recent dialogue has made perfectly clear (to me), my perception is not the final analysis. Maybe yours isn't, either, but certainly we both come from informed positions for analyses. (BYW, do you have or check whatever email address is connected to your account here? Hmmm....you curious cats, if my my husband saw the posts, I'd gulp, but not have to swallow, so there. lol Tho I do know these things: 1. I'm an idiot for not liking single malt scotch (this occured b/c as, an 18 year old when that was legal age, I took a bottle of dear old dad's, drank it to the last drop, got sicker than a cancer-patient --after all, I was an 18 yr old athelete -- and can't stand it 2. I wish I knew someone who could give me smoke worth the time of rolling it myself. Ahhhh...the 70s ,good old days. 3. I'm an idiot. My IQ is like 82 or something What you doing tonight Bill? I was working on "parallel language" between "learning goals and outcomes" and "learning activities and assessments." Do you know I am now *required* to spell out four sets of learning goals: 1. My course, specifically. 2. My course, as it relates to dep't. 3. My course, as it relates to Univ liberal education goals. 4. My course, as it realtes to first-year experience (incoming freshmen only) goals. That is like 6 freaking pages (Calibri, 12 point. 1.5 spacing)! That is like 50 text messages, in their world! Oh My! I try to say something shocking on page two, but you know, I'm with ya: if ya can't say it in a page, don't say it at all. But the U is forcing us to put all this crap up. And this is before all the accomodations--which I believe in--that must be stated for all kinds of exceptions. Shhhhheeeeet. Bill. Pray. Pray to Jesus, on your broken knees, that my pilot project will be accepted and that I will then be promoted and earn much, much more than I do to put words on a piece of (virtual)paper that 60% of students won't read anyway. You doubt me? (OK,you don't, but I'm--like you-- BEING NICE, ahem ahem, heh heh)--go to http://techintheclassroom.ning.com/video/video/show?id=1584749%3AVideo%3A1262 Fill >>>>>>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> >>>>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 199 lines] >> >> I don't know. Maybe it's all a Perception, in the Final Analysis. I mean life, or at least what we can get out of it. > Ya think? You must have been a good psych teacher. But, as our recent > dialogue has made perfectly clear (to me), my perception is not the > final analysis. In the Final Analysis means ... what it all eventually comes down to. > Maybe yours isn't, either, but certainly we both come > from informed positions for analyses. > > (BYW, do you have or check whatever email address is connected to your > account here? No, it's bogus. (figured that was pretty obvious). But Margo, my trusted assistant, knows the real one, since "...the Shadow knows..." > Hmmm....you curious cats, if my my husband saw the posts, I'd gulp, Which cats? Your cats? > but not have to swallow, so there. lol > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > old dad's, drank it to the last drop, got sicker than a cancer-patient > --after all, I was an 18 yr old athelete -- and can't stand it I don't drink hard liquor. I *do* love margaritas and daiquiris, however. :-) OK, throw a Pina Colada in there, too. (Well, I have had some screwdrivers in the past, but that's probably not what you'd call hard liquor). > 2. I wish I knew someone who could give me smoke worth the time of > rolling it myself. Ahhhh...the 70s ,good old days. You smoke cigarettes? For shame! (I quit ages ago, and hopefully forever) > 3. I'm an idiot. My IQ is like 82 or something > > What you doing tonight Bill? I was watching Key Largo. Usually I'm watching TCM, or tinkering with the computer (I tend to do mess with it a bit) > I was working on "parallel language" between "learning goals and > outcomes" and "learning activities and assessments." Do you know I am [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Shhhhheeeeet. This is the newage bullshit invented by Administrators, who have nothing better to do. And it is also due to the newage bullshit of: "I'm gonna sue your a.s, because you didn't tell me where the bathroom was on your syllabus, (or the Learning Center, or whatever), and you can't expect me to be responsible enough to figure that out on my own". And indeed, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Viva Le Nouveau Age De Enlightenmente. Indeed, we, as a society today, are reaping what we sowed. I am kinda glad I don't have to put up with that bullshit anymore. 20 or 30 years ago, it was non-existent. Today, it's rampant, and it's ALL ABOUT those multipage typed "Goals and Objectives" lists (that nobody ever looks at), and also some newage Disclaimers that (allegedly) "must" be on the syllabus today (although I didn't. :-). > Bill. Pray. Pray to Jesus, on your broken knees, that my pilot project > will be accepted and that I will then be promoted and earn much, much [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Fill Can't do videos very well over here on dial-up! (Even audios are a bit problematic)! Don't believe me? Try it some time. But other than that, I don't mind dial-up, and actually am used to it. On Aug 21, 1:37 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Aug 19, 9:05 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > >>>>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 252 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh for X's sake, Bill, no, I don't smoke cigarettes. I used to (as my buddies put it) try to be a "wanna be smoker" but I never really was one. Some times with friends who smoke organic/natural stuff, I will bum one or two. (Let;s agree inthe last year I've bummed a total of six organic cigarettes) But if I say on this group that I'm smoking some fine hand rolled, that keeps with the image of me as some sort of crazy drinking smoking idiot, which is far more exciting than the me most ppl see. Good one with Margo. Film Noir yeah. Key Largo? Not sure--tell me. Tinkering is good. I tinker with all kinds of sh.t. Lately mostly my syallbus. I've been studying/trying to abpply this transformative learning stuff. I get it conceptually but am having a hard time putting it into language for my students. Parents here for the long weekend. No not my cats. My cat--the other one I killed last summer (well not directly, euthanasia, but still, I did it)--is old lazy and not curious about much, tho I can still get her to play with string for about ten minutes a day. Or, maybe, I'm a crazy drunk stoned stupid woman with fifteen cats defacating all around. Who knows? I think hard liquor pretty muc sucks. What I've found is it makes me "mean"--as in, my spirit weakens. I like some of it fine (not scotch or any whiskey, no brandy): I can drink Long Island Ice Tea or Rum and coke but if I do this for two nights--even lightly--my spirit gets mean. So I don't. I do it for one night I'm fine (Unless I post here and get the alcohol police)) I am sorry you don't check whatever your bogus email is. I do, tho rarely. I've written you. Hope Margo passes it on, Mr Spade. Moonbeams and sunshines, Dashiell (Fill) > On Aug 21, 1:37 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 266 lines] > > Oh for X's sake, Bill, no, I don't smoke cigarettes. I used to (as my (Well, it kinda sounded like it). > buddies put it) try to be a "wanna be smoker" but I never really was > one. Some times with friends who smoke organic/natural stuff, I will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > crazy drinking smoking idiot, which is far more exciting than the me > most ppl see. But I don't see how people can try only a few cigarettes. Either you get into it, or you don't (the way I've seen it) > Good one with Margo. Film Noir yeah. Key Largo? Not sure--tell me. Film noir from the 1940's. Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, etc. Hell, I watch about any drama from the 1940's. LOVE IT! > Tinkering is good. I tinker with all kinds of sh.t. Lately mostly my > syallbus. I've been studying/trying to apply this transformative > learning stuff. "Transformative Learning stuff"? (Hmmm, on second thought, nevermind. :-) My old-fashioned methods seemed to work just fine for my students, and without a stupid, 10 page, newage, "list" of bulleted "Goals and Objectives" (and those were just to make Administrators look good; but I'm sure they had a nice place for them on their shelves, however, to impress their superiors with). > I get it conceptually but am having a hard time > putting it into language for my students. Maybe you don't need to bother. What counts is what you do in the classroom; the basics; and some good, old-fashioned, common sense. (The last thing I need is to be told how to teach better from the Education Dept (snort). > Parents here for the long weekend. Maybe that's good. > No not my cats. My cat--the other one I killed last summer (well not > directly, euthanasia, but still, I did it)--is old lazy and not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Or, maybe, I'm a crazy drunk stoned stupid woman with fifteen cats > defacating all around. Who knows? The Shadow knows... > I think hard liquor pretty muc sucks. What I've found is it makes me > "mean"--as in, my spirit weakens. I like some of it fine (not scotch [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So I don't. I do it for one night I'm fine (Unless I post here and get > the alcohol police)) Who was that? > I am sorry you don't check whatever your bogus email is. I do, tho > rarely. I've written you. Hope Margo passes it on, Mr Spade. Maybe Margo can get it from Vickie. They sometimes share. > Moonbeams and sunshines, > Dashiell (Fill) We get a LOT of sun out here, but I'm still a moonbeam, though I never can remember what that means! (I figure at this age, though, it's kinda excusable). On Aug 22, 2:38 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Aug 21, 1:37 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> SNIPPITY > > Oh for X's sake, Bill, no, I don't smoke cigarettes. I used to (as my > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > But I don't see how people can try only a few cigarettes. Either you get > into it, or you don't (the way I've seen it) > > Good one with Margo. Film Noir yeah. Key Largo? Not sure--tell me. > > Film noir from the 1940's. Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, etc. Hell, > I watch about any drama from the 1940's. LOVE IT! I'll watch it then! > "Transformative Learning stuff"? (Hmmm, on second thought, nevermind. > :-) I actually think you'd like it and that your old methods were just fine and probably fairly much in keeping. You and I have discussed before how much students and teachers differ now than in the old-age. It's true we need more bullets for administrators, but what I'm finding is that students come into a class with fairly unclear expectations of either the importance of the class alone or its relation to other courses or the Mission of the University (my school is liberal arts). I don't have bulleted lists of much except for how the expectations for my course align with the department and university learning outcomes. > My old-fashioned methods seemed to work just fine for my students, and > without a stupid, 10 page, newage, "list" of bulleted "Goals and Objectives" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > last thing I need is to be told how to teach better from the Education Dept > (snort). I would have agreed with you until recently. The point is, of course, to not just have it as "emtpy language" but language they can do something with, learn from, come to understanding something about why they're taking, say, a novel course, why the goals of the course are and how they are in keeping with the degree they chose to pursue. I think one of the effects of the newage is that there is a lot of diverse, separate, quick "blips" of information and younger people come in--in general (some, of course, come in far more intelligent than I am and barely needing a 4-year liberal arts degree to go on to become a great something)--anyway, a lot of younger people come in without having a solid understanding of how all the "blips" taught to them previously are very relevant to either their general knowledge, or their goals, or themselves, or other people. So, I'm going a little longer and more carefully with my first-day handouts this time, but I'm also making a 10% assignment that asks them to think about how that information relates to their understanding of this English course, this liberal education college, etc. Does that make sense to you? > > Parents here for the long weekend. > > Maybe that's good. It's good. I should have said my parents, lol. Only bad thing this weekend was my Mom and I ran into DH's daughter while out shopping. However it was quick and fairly painless. Yet another benefit of removing myself from the crazy-ness. When I used to want to, try to, have a good relationship--or at least have the hope of one in the future--it would have been tougher. Much easier to let go knowing they're all happier now without me. Didn 't even bother to tell DH about the meeting because, as he put it, I need to stay out so he can have the relationship with them. :) And no, because I know you'll ask, of *course* he hasn't said anymore about the "general boundaries" -- you were right, OK -- but again on the flip side, I find myself not caring as much as I did a week ago and continuing to enjoy the increasing freedom of not being part of these weekly little flashes of chaos. x > > So I don't. I do it for one night I'm fine (Unless I post here and get > > the alcohol police)) > > Who was that? Some people don't like it when I name names when they aren't part of the immediate discussion... > Maybe Margo can get it from Vickie. They sometimes share. Sharing is nice. I think I still have the original Moonbeam post. But I don't know where. You are one. You doing anything fun this weekend? Do you have a pet? > On Aug 22, 2:38 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I'll watch it then! I also loved "Notorious" (Cary Grant, Ingrid Bergman, etc), from the same era. Oh yeah, and that recent HBO special series, "In Treatment" (therapist & patients) >> "Transformative Learning stuff"? (Hmmm, on second thought, nevermind. >> :-) >> > I actually think you'd like it and that your old methods were just > fine and probably fairly much in keeping. Well, at least for my students, and my subject matter (Electronics) > You and I have discussed > before how much students and teachers differ now than in the old-age. Yuuuup. Not just that, but society at large, and personal responsibility (or rather, I should say, the increasing lack thereof (along with COMMON SENSE) > It's true we need more bullets for administrators, but what I'm No, what we really need is LESS administrators. And administrative BULLSHIT. > finding is that students come into a class with fairly unclear > expectations of either the importance of the class alone or its > relation to other courses or the Mission of the University (my school > is liberal arts). But not so much for what I was teaching (Electronics). > I don't have bulleted lists of much except for how > the expectations for my course align with the department and > university learning outcomes. Ah yes, those good ole, newage, "learning outcomes and assessments"! (snort) (nevermind, I'll be nice) (thinking of William Bennett and Ronald Reagan a bit here, despite my being a Democrat, and liking Obama; but as I said, I'm not monolithic) >> My old-fashioned methods seemed to work just fine for my students, and >> without a stupid, 10 page, newage, "list" of bulleted "Goals and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > course, this liberal education college, etc. Does that make sense to > you? Yes. But then again, we taught in vastly different fields, so I think it's more applicable for you and your students. What I do know is that their English and writing skills (for my students, in my classes) were pretty weak. (Nor did most care much about it, sad to say, which oftentimes pissed me off a bit). >>> Parents here for the long weekend. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > future--it would have been tougher. Much easier to let go knowing > they're all happier now without me. That still sucks. What a way to live. :-( But it's really a loss, for all. > Didn 't even bother to tell DH > about the meeting because, as he put it, I need to stay out so he can > have the relationship with them. :) And no, because I know you'll ask, > of *course* he hasn't said anymore about the "general boundaries" -- Right. It's just easier to do nothing. Human Nature 101. (We're all guilty :-) > you were right, OK -- but again on the flip side, I find myself not > caring as much as I did a week ago and continuing to enjoy the > increasing freedom of not being part of these weekly little flashes of > chaos. Well, maybe that's a (small) saving grace. >>> So I don't. I do it for one night I'm fine (Unless I post here and get >>> the alcohol police)) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Some people don't like it when I name names when they aren't part of > the immediate discussion... OK. >> Maybe Margo can get it from Vickie. They sometimes share. > > Sharing is nice. > > I think I still have the original Moonbeam post. But I don't know > where. You are one. You doing anything fun this weekend? Nah. Same ole stuff. Pretty much nadasville. For some reason, I am reminded of Enya's song, "Only Time". > Do you have a pet? Not allowed to in this apartment. I miss kitties. But that's ok, as its one thing less to have to "worry" about. Of course, the downside is that it's one thing less to *care* about, too. And you gotta have at least something to care about, else, what's the point of being here? (Hmmm, on second thought, I'll leave there). On Aug 23, 5:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > On Aug 22, 2:38 am, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Oh yeah, and that recent HBO special series, "In Treatment" (therapist & > patients) I LOVE Notorious! We don't get that new-age HBO stuff here, tho. :) > >> "Transformative Learning stuff"? (Hmmm, on second thought, nevermind. > >> :-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Well, at least for my students, and my subject matter (Electronics) I thot you were psychology teacher. Wow, how'd I get that messed up. Or maybe you were :) and maybe I actually teach history! (doesn't matter much for our discussion) Anyway, "transformative assessment/ learning" really is, in my mind, what good teachers have always done. What I've been working on professionally is slowing down (or make clear in my head) the embedded structures involved and trying to make this clearer to (especially freshmen) because I like teaching freshmen the most--they are still young and eager and excited, before non- transformative learning multiple-choices their memorized facts to death for yet four more years. > > You and I have discussed > > before how much students and teachers differ now than in the old-age. > > Yuuuup. Not just that, but society at large, and personal responsibility > (or rather, I should say, the increasing lack thereof (along with COMMON > SENSE) YES. Exactly--that is exactly what our university, and me quite investedly, are working on-- > > It's true we need more bullets for administrators, but what I'm > > No, what we really need is LESS administrators. And administrative > BULLSHIT. "Need" was a poor choice of word on my part. I entirely agree that most administrators could butt out of most things and they waste my time making me fill out more forms and include more language than ever before. When I said "we need more bullets" I meant "we are required to provide"- > > finding is that students come into a class with fairly unclear > > expectations of either the importance of the class alone or its [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bit here, despite my being a Democrat, and liking Obama; but as I said, I'm > not monolithic) You don't have to agree or be nice. This is causing a lot of conflict in the U right now. I was pretty skeptical except that I decided I'd really research, go to workshops and forums, and give it a try. What I'm finding is that while it makes students uncomfortable--it does, after all, hold them accountable for every choice they make in relation to their "higher" education (and some, still, just want to get "high" more than study)--I have noticed two remarkable improvements: first, in their academic skills in relation to course content and second, in their accountability. I've also had to make changes in how I've considered my accountability to them. That's really odd, too, because whatever else students might say or think of me, they have unilateral in the past two decades in using the words "clear about expectations" and "fair." (They also use words like "eccentric" regularly. I'm a goof nut. I will meet them informally on Friday, and I plan to wear all shoes, shorts, and shirt (virtually solid orange) and come into the room and say, "Orange you glad to meet me?" I use music to teach grammar and make them dance. Crap like that) Of course there are those who say "Devil's Daughter" or "Most enthusiastic ever" but only clear, fair, and eccentric have been consistent. snips What I do know is that their English > and writing skills (for my students, in my classes) were pretty weak. (Nor > did most care much about it, sad to say, which oftentimes pissed me off a > bit). Right! Why would they care? Few teachers are motivated to explain why the writing matters--is more significant than an essay grade--and most who do are English teachers. And even those who do use that as a subject matter itself don't always have students who want to learn why it's important, believe that it's important in those ways, or transfer those beliefs into other classes. >>Only bad thing this > > weekend was my Mom and I ran into DH's daughter while out shopping. > > That still sucks. What a way to live. :-( But it's really a loss, > for all. It is. The only way this loss could have been avoided was via DH setting boundaries and living by them. He couldn't, so it's a loss for all. He did manage to inform me that he'd be lunching with this daughter on a specific date this month and going to his daddy's birthday party on a specific date this month. Not exactly what we agreed on, and I thought about pushing, and then I thought what the phuck. My goals is really as simple as never seeing any of them ever again (never hearing about them, too, tho that may be trickier, but in time..., so they can all be happy getting what they want. I'll be fine. No, I'll be even better than fine. I've gone thru much greater losses then this (after all, I'm "losing" the chaos which I was part of in a codependent way and I'm also "losing" the hope of being accepted by a family who I no longer have any respect for). The downside is that I lost respect for my husband in this, but hopefully this is not just a symptom of larger problems that I can't or won't see. It's a very new and awkward feeling for me. I would not have married him if I had known he could not demand his family to treat him and our marriage with integrity. And of course he, like them, has not treated our marriage with integrity now. I don't like this. I do still like him, but he did not provide the foundation I heard him promise before we were married. And I would not have entered this kind of life, where we're at now, by choice. AARRRGGGGHHHHH I don't know if I will want to get out of it later or not. (I have a strong tendency to keep commitments, but a stronger one to preserve my health, both emotional and physical.) It may end up, and my goal is that it would be this way, that in a year from now I find that I can live with a husband who didn't treasure me enough to stand up for me, not when the going got tough. I just hit a key accidentally and deleted the rest of you post. I'll go back to it for the kitty-business. Fill > On Aug 23, 5:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I LOVE Notorious! We don't get that new-age HBO stuff here, tho. :) LOL. It shows up on TCM. You DO get TCM, don't ya? :-) >>>> "Transformative Learning stuff"? (Hmmm, on second thought, >>>> nevermind. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I thot you were psychology teacher. Wow, how'd I get that messed up. > Or maybe you were :) No, only in here. :-) > and maybe I actually teach history! (doesn't > matter much for our discussion) Anyway, "transformative assessment/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > this clearer to (especially freshmen) because I like teaching freshmen > the most--they are still young and eager and excited, Yes, exactly. I always enjoyed them too; that eager, open mind. And no "Senioritis". > before non- > transformative learning multiple-choices their memorized facts to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > time making me fill out more forms and include more language than ever > before. Exactly. And what a waste. > When I said "we need more bullets" I meant "we are required to provide"- >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > enthusiastic ever" but only clear, fair, and eccentric have been > consistent. Good! An exciting (and even eccentric) teacher is what makes the difference. > snips > What I do know is that their English [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Right! Why would they care? If they had any sense, they would know. And they SHOULD know. Maybe they weren't raised well. > Few teachers are motivated to explain why > the writing matters--is more significant than an essay grade--and most [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > setting boundaries and living by them. He couldn't, so it's a loss for > all. Well, he probably could, at least theoretically. Or maybe he doesn't have the constitution for it, but really, it's just a question of basic integrity and respect, and he should know better. Grrrrrr. > He did manage to inform me that he'd be lunching with this > daughter on a specific date this month and going to his daddy's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of in a codependent way and I'm also "losing" the hope of being > accepted by a family who I no longer have any respect for). Which is really sad. And (if I may say so) a bit pathetic. What a waste, and for what? No one is winning anything here. Whats the matter with them, anyway. Grrrr. > The downside is that I lost respect for my husband in this, but hopefully > this is not just a symptom of larger problems that I can't or won't see. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > marriage with integrity. And of course he, like them, has not treated > our marriage with integrity now. I don't like this. I wouldn't either. I think I would "have it out" with them and try to get it resolved, but I think you said you have tried, and it did no good. Well, there are some people who will never change their opinions, I guess. > I do still like him, but he did not provide the foundation I heard him > promise before we were married. And I would not have entered this kind [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Fill On Aug 23, 5:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Some people don't like it when I name names when they aren't part of > > the immediate discussion... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Nah. Same ole stuff. Pretty much nadasville. Well, you're writing me. And others! You know you've talked me and others through some trying times with a great deal of kindness. Sure you and some others are not exactly buddies, but I sense that bothers you as much as it does me. But I don't want to post more about that here. Maybe I'll go get Sam a cup of coffee in some other forum. > For some reason, I am reminded of Enya's song, "Only Time". > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > something to care about, else, what's the point of being here? (Hmmm, on > second thought, I'll leave there). Yeah. It's scary knowing that. So many people cover that up in so many ways, but really, it's pointless. Maybe that's why we make such a big deal about personal stuff. To keep ourselves fooled. I always know, underneath, tho, exactly what you're saying. Did you read that one post a while back--can't remember what thread or who wrote it--about "Well what's the point of feeling bad about things we can't change?" (talking about Darfur, Afghanistan, poverty in US, whatever). Do people really buy into the fact that they can't change things? I'm always a bit pissed at myself for excusing my limited attempts at "changing things"--what did you say "Human Nature 101"? > On Aug 23, 5:48 pm, "Bill in Co" <surly_curmudg...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Well, you're writing me. And others! You know you've talked me and > others through some trying times with a great deal of kindness. Well, thanks. > Sure you and some others are not exactly buddies, but I sense that bothers > you as much as it does me. For some, yes. For some others, no. :-) I am reminded of Dr Seuss: "Those who care about such stuff, don't matter; and those who really matter, don't care about such stuff" (Seuss) :-) > But I don't want to post more about that > here. Maybe I'll go get Sam a cup of coffee in some other forum. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Yeah. It's scary knowing that. So many people cover that up in so many > ways, but really, it's pointless. I think so. > Maybe that's why we make such a big > deal about personal stuff. To keep ourselves fooled. Hmmm. I'm not sure I'm in that category of being fooled, sad to say. > I always know, > underneath, tho, exactly what you're saying. Did you read that one > post a while back--can't remember what thread or who wrote it--about > "Well what's the point of feeling bad about things we can't > change?" (talking about Darfur, Afghanistan, poverty in US, whatever). I remember somebody saying that, and then (in effect) just blowing it off. Which is part and parcel of the Serenity Prayer, I expect. But alas, never have been good at following that) > Do people really buy into the fact that they can't change things? Well, for some things - many things - that is TRUE, if you're talking about you and me, or the person on the street (and not the political "leaders" (dictators?) who might be able to, and are usually responsible for creating the mess in the first place) > I'm always a bit pissed at myself for excusing my limited attempts at > "changing things"--what did you say "Human Nature 101"? Yeah. But the truth is, it IS very, very, very limited, at our level. |
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