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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / May 2007DS and eating
Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! I'm x-posting (alt.mothers & misc.kids) - hope no one minds. DS is now 6. He seems to be a fairly fussy eater, and has been for some time. He doesn't like mushrooms. He doesn't like much for vegetables. Not crazy about too many fruits, other than a rare banana, watermelon, apples. Doesn't like yogurt, etc. I tend to 'sneak' these foods into his diet, though, so it's not too big of a concern at times. The problem is, though, I am getting sick and tired of certain things he does. When eating, if he doesn't like it (and I know he doesn't) rather than fight about it, I tell him to just pick it out and put it on the side of his plate. Example, eating spaghetti and I put mushrooms in it. Just put it on the side of his plate, and let it be. The problem is, he seems to 'hide' food he doesn't like or want. I find the toast crust shoved in the corner of his chair at the table - same with the green beans or lima beans or whatever out of his meals. He'll discreetly 'drop' the stuff he doesn't like under the table, under his chair or on his chair. It makes a huge mess, and quite frankly, doing a full vacuum of the table area EVERY meal, 3x a day, shouldn't be necessary, I don't believe. But I have to because there's a huge mess. It isn't always stuff he doesn't like. To me, it almost seems like he's gone back to the toddler stage of when he just doesn't want anymore, he'll drop it. His cereal at breakfast - if he doesn't want to finish it, he will do the same dropping or hiding thing. I don't know why. I have never forced him to eat anything more when he claims to be full, nor have I ever forced him to eat anything he doesn't like. He knows the rules are that if you try it once and don't like it, fine. He also knows the rules are that if he serves himself food (and he is definitely at that age where he likes to serve himself) then he must eat all he takes - he knows to start small and have seconds and is usually real good with this, with the exception of the 'dropping' and 'hiding'. If someone else serves him, he needs to eat an acceptable amount and if he says he's full before the plate is done, then there are no snacks until next meal (although he is more than welcome to snack on the previous meal he filled up on) I'm just wondering why he is dropping and hiding this food. It's really starting to drive me insane. I've always thought that the food thing wasn't an issue. He has been doing this for quite some time - I'd say he started about 2 years ago, but lately it seems to be getting worse. We had to put DD1 back into her high chair to remove her booster seat partly because he was hiding food under her booster seat. (other reason is this booster has no straps to tie her in, so she stands or gets up) He definitely makes more of a mess at any given meal than DD1 does, and she is only 22 months. Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! Any ideas? > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what > to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! > Any ideas? I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the vacuuming thing, maybe put a sheet or something under his seat so that if he drops food you can just pick up the sheet and toss the food, then use the sheet again for later meals. Other than that, kids go through phases where they don't like anything. Hopefully it'll pass soon.  Signature~Froggy~ "No one can belittle you without your consent". ~Eleanor Roosevelt~ > I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the vacuuming thing, > maybe put a sheet or something under his seat so that if he drops food you > can just pick up the sheet and toss the food, then use the sheet again for > later meals. Other than that, kids go through phases where they don't > like anything. Hopefully it'll pass soon. If he was 2, I would agree with the sheet idea. But he is 6. > ~Froggy~ > "No one can belittle you without your consent". > ~Eleanor Roosevelt~ >> I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the vacuuming thing, >> maybe put a sheet or something under his seat so that if he drops food [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If he was 2, I would agree with the sheet idea. But he is 6. Yes, I agree with this... >> ~Froggy~ >> "No one can belittle you without your consent". >> ~Eleanor Roosevelt~ >>> I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the >>> vacuuming thing, maybe put a sheet or something under his [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Yes, I agree with this... well, you can use a splat mat or you can keep mopping/vacuuming the floor... OR, you can make him clean up his own mess. don't allow him to leave the table until he has swept around his chair & picked all the food off it. he *can* do this. my kid was taught to pick up his mess & put his dishes in the sink (after scraping leftovers into either the garbage or the dog's dish) when he was 3. it's part of his chores. as far as him being a picky eater, we have a rule that you must try one bite of an unfamiliar food. if you dislike it, you don't have to eat it, but you also *cannot* say "yuck!" or any variation thereof, you may not whine about it being on your plate & you may not remove it from your plate. personally, i don't serve Boo things he doesn't like. if i'm making lasagna for us, i'll boil some bowtie noodles for him at the same time. he doesn't like the mouth feel of lasagne & i understand that. i will offer him a bite, in case his tastes have changed, but it's not an issue if he chooses not to. i don't make his father eat beets or lima beans either, although Boo & i love them (with beets, daddy gets the greens, which Boo doesn't care for & we get the beets <sorry Barb! <g>>). mushrooms have a very distictive mouth feel too, which i dislike, although i like the taste. cream of mushroom is ok. chunks of mushroom are icky. lee >>>> I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the >>>> vacuuming thing, maybe put a sheet or something under his [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > chunks of mushroom are icky. > lee Lee, We have so found that it is often the texture and not the taste in so many instances. Artichokes are the thing that comes to mind first. Our children all love spinach and artichoke dip, but not artichokes steamed or artichoke hearts in a salad. Green beans cooked to death are a no, but slightly firm are a winner. Frozen or fresh peas are a yes, canned is nasty. With five of us I frequently cook something that has incredients others don't like. The kids know to simply ignore what they don'e like and scoot it over to the side. After one bite if they don't like it it's okay just leave it. And each child's mess is his own to clean up. Floor, chair, table around their plate. Trash in the garbage, meat scraps to the dogs, etcetera. Xkatx You might try an idea my sister used with her sets of twins. She has 2 sets and all of them seem to have different food likes and dislikes, and texture tolerances. So she used the tapas method of serving. Purchase some custard cups or salsa bowls (small not pretty, the ones at the dollar store are perfect) and allow them to have each food in a separate small bowl. Yes it makes for a bit more washing, I know that. But if it means there is no huge mess to clean up, and no tantrums at the table, etcetera then it might be worth it. You might add that he rinses and puts his dishes in the dishwasher when he is done. One of my nieces has such a texture aversion that if foods were touching it would make her gag. Not tantrum acting out, just the way she is, some odors do the same thing for her. I hope you find a good solution that works for all of you and doesn't turn dinner into a battle ground Cindi >>>>> I don't know about the picky eater thing but as for the >>>>> vacuuming thing, maybe put a sheet or something under his [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > slightly firm are a winner. Frozen or fresh peas are a yes, canned is > nasty. I find I'm a very texture person. My mom is as well. I'm also a big 'smeller' - like my dad. I only noticed it when someone pointed it out to me. I smell everything before eating/drinking/tasting it, even if I know what it is and know already if I like it/don't like it. Both my mom and I don't like watermelon simply because of the strange texture. DS seems to dislike things based on visual only. It's definitely not the taste - I have tossed stuff like onions and mushrooms in the processor and mushed it up to almost noting, and DS eats it fine. Green beans, another one I know he's not one for, I have put a jar of baby food pureed green beans in something like a spaghetti sauce and he doesn't notice (no one does, actually!) > With five of us I frequently cook something that has incredients others > don't like. The kids know to simply ignore what they don'e like and scoot [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > tantrum acting out, just the way she is, some odors do the same thing for > her. Hm... I never knew about this, but I also know that to this day, I do NOT like my food touching the other food. Until I moved away from home, I had used a divided plate lol It was a plastic plate divided in 3 sections. I believe my mom bought these when I was about 5, maybe. Just out of habit, I always used them, even though they were plastic and very neon color (which was, I might add, VERY popular back when I was about 5!) I do find my stomach does a few flip-flops if N is eating. Certain things make me almost lose my appetite if I see him do it. Steak, potatos, corn, sour cream and cottage cheese. He will smear his meat right across the sour cream AND cottage cheese and add a scoop of corn and a piece of potato on his fork before he shoves it in his mouth. Me? I'll eat all the potatos first. When those are done, I'll eat the meat. When that's done, I'll eat the corn. At the end, I'll plop a bit of cottage cheese on the plate and eat that. Again, I didn't even notice I did this until someone pointed it out that I eat each item one at a time. Now, abut the dishes being put in the dishwasher... Would be a lot easier if I still had my dish washer... It broke and I got rid of it a while back, so putting dirty dishes in me is not an idea - but DS is expected to take his plate to the sink and scrape it in the garbage first (I HATE floating things in the dish water...It's gross, and he knows that lol) He doesn't seem to care if things mix - he often mixes things, like his dad. > I hope you find a good solution that works for all of you and doesn't turn > dinner into a battle ground > > Cindi > DS seems to dislike things based on visual only. > It's definitely not the taste - I have tossed stuff like onions and > mushrooms in the processor and mushed it up to almost noting, and DS eats it > fine. Green beans, another one I know he's not one for, I have put a jar of > baby food pureed green beans in something like a spaghetti sauce and he > doesn't notice (no one does, actually!) Yep. Spinach on Pizza. "No Sam, that's not spinach, that's just herbs. You like those." He ate it... Would it be an option to just take the blender to his sauce before putting it on the noodles? If he doesn't mind the taste of mushrooms he won't know the difference. cu nicole >Hm... I never knew about this, but I also know that to this day, I do NOT >like my food touching the other food. Until I moved away from home, I had [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >eat that. Again, I didn't even notice I did this until someone pointed it >out that I eat each item one at a time. I also eat one thing at a time, and it drove my mom crazy. She thought it was not polite to do it that way, and she tried her best to get me to mix my food on my fork ('it's all going the same place' she would say), but I would not do it. While I will happily eat casseroles that come to the table mixed up, I won't mix them on the fork. I like to taste each thing for itself without a lot of excess tastes in there. This means that there are certain combinations of food that most people like that I don't care for. Particularly mint jelly which my mom always served with lamb. I can't stand mint jelly. I don't care if my food touches each other. I think he is old enough to clean everything up himself. Before he can leave the dining area, he has to clean all the areas where he hides food. Alternatively, have him eat in the kitchen or somewhere that there is no hiding place for the food. >Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to >do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >Any ideas? >I think he is old enough to clean everything up himself. Before he > can leave the dining area, he has to clean all the areas where he > hides food. > > Alternatively, have him eat in the kitchen or somewhere that there is > no hiding place for the food. The only place we eat is at the table in the kitchen (we don't have any sort of dining room or anything) and food, right from the start, has not been allowed in bedrooms, living room, etc., mainly because I am not crazy about the greater possibility of bugs and running around looking for missing dishes doesn't appeal to me. I like the idea of him cleaning up, but we've had some issues with temper tantrums, which we are working on and it is getting far better. Maybe that will be the deal, and he can sit there all night if he refuses? I'm sure he'd eventually do it! >>Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what >>to [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >>Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >>Any ideas? > I like the idea of him cleaning up, but we've had some issues with temper > tantrums, which we are working on and it is getting far better. Maybe that > will be the deal, and he can sit there all night if he refuses? I'm sure > he'd eventually do it! My kids have always had to clean up the messes they deliberately make, so they almost expect that they would have to clean up. I don't think you should shy away from a consequence because he would have a tantrum over it. That just allows him to do as he pleases without consequences. When my kids did that and then had a tantrum because they didn't want to clean up, I have been known to force the towel into their hand and then drag their arm around the mess and making them clean up. Don't know why, but they'd rather do it themselves than have me force them to do it that way. >> I like the idea of him cleaning up, but we've had some issues with temper >> tantrums, which we are working on and it is getting far better. Maybe [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > but they'd rather do it themselves than have me force them to do it that > way. Hahaha I actually tried that with him once. It worked. I actually didn't think to try it for this, though. He didn't want to clean up his room, and I told him I understood (come to think of it, I don't ever want to clean my room, the bathroom, the laundry, dishes, floors...) So I asked him if he wanted me to help him. He said yes, so I took his hand and picked up each toy one by one, using HIS hand. It took about 3 or 4 toys to be picked up like this and put away before he swung his arm away from me and told me he'd do it himself. Ever since that time, if I ask him if he wants help with picking up his room, he says no. > Hahaha I actually tried that with him once. It worked. I actually didn't > think to try it for this, though. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > from me and told me he'd do it himself. Ever since that time, if I ask him > if he wants help with picking up his room, he says no. Uhhhhhhhh good one! I set a timer and tell him everything that's not picked up by the time the timer goes off will be tossed.... He does panic for about a minute and then picks up and put his stuff away. Ok, sometimes he tries to cheat by putting stuff on his bed (I toss everything on the floor) but then I just set the timer again for a shorter time and tell him he needs to put his "junk" away propperly. But I second the "Clean up your own mess" idea. I think it'll probably have the best effect. We started cleaning up the kitchen table together now and it worls really well, apparently putting things into the dishwasher is fun if you pretend it's the boot/trunk of a car. cu nicole >>I think he is old enough to clean everything up himself. Before he >>can leave the dining area, he has to clean all the areas where he [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > will be the deal, and he can sit there all night if he refuses? I'm sure > he'd eventually do it! [snip] I know you don't want to change this on a permanent basis, but could you have a two-pronged approach. You could start having meals in a different place, and also make him clean up after himself. If it has been going on as long as you say, then it is engrained behaviour, and will be much harder to stop then the new rules when eating in a different place. After a week or two, you could move back to the kitchen. Sometimes you just have to put up with the tantrums! SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >I think he is old enough to clean everything up himself. Before he > can leave the dining area, he has to clean all the areas where he > hides food. I agree. I have an electric sweeper that both kids use to clean up their crumbs. Ds is 6.5 and DD is 2.5. She does a decent job. Decent enough to take responsibility for her mess. JennP. > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to > do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! > Any ideas? Hi there! At 6 years old, he is certainly old enough to be responsible for the mess he makes. When he is finished eating, it should be his responsibility to clean up any mess he makes. Have him get down under the table/chair and pick up the large things, then have the vacume ready with the hose/tool to pick up the small stuff.... every meal, before being able to go on to other activities. This isn't a punishment, just what needs to be done.... With my son, all it took was one time of having to clean up muddy soccer shoe prints off the floor to get him to remember to remove the shoes in the garage..... I always try to do the "logical consequences" thing, and often it really seems to help. But sometimes figuring out a "logical consequence" isn't quite as easy as this. : ) good luck! Shel On May 23, 10:50 am, bob and shel <gymmommunged1...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to > > do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Shel, You're so right! If they are responsible for cleaning up their messes, they'll be much neater. >Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to >do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >Any ideas? Two things. One is, if you know he doesn't like it, don't serve it to him. What's the point of it if he won't eat it (and surely you're not forcing him to eat it, right?) I can understand not wanting to vary recipies the rest of the family likes to make a special meal for him (like making a special spaghetti sauce without mushrooms and doubling the pots to wash as well as your efforts in making a meal), turning yourself into a short order cook. But consider - he's a family member too, make a deal that, the family is x people, so one out of x times, the spaghetti sauce gets made without the mushrooms. Because I think maybe he's feeling really pressured by this stuff being put on his plate whether he wants it or not, and not having a part in the decisions about the family meals. And of course talk with him about what the food-dropping is doing and why it's bad. And make him clean it up. So you both work on this together. Banty >>Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what >>to [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > > Banty Disregard my advise. This advice is better. >>Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what >>to [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > wants > it or not, and not having a part in the decisions about the family meals. I often make changes in meals more often than not. He is the only one that doesn't like mushrooms. More often than not, there are no mushrooms in the spaghetti. I've cut out a lot of things I know he doesn't like - I don't even keep onions in the house because he doesn't like them and I just don't use them. I don't like onions, really, but I do like to cook with them for the flavor added. I don't do that anymore. The mushrooms are just a small example, more often than not, it's other things. No, I will NOT cut the bread up so he doesn't have crust. No, I will not dig through a bag of mixed vegetables and only pick out the peas, a few carrots and some corn. The bag of mixed vegetables comes with peas, carrots, corn, green beans. One other type I have bought also has the lima beans in it. I do my best to scoop him out only what he likes and leave the green beans and limas in there, but again, every now and then, one will slip in, and really, sorry about his luck, one bean on his plate can be pushed aside. The cereal for breakfast? He even gets to pick that out almost every time. I do have a say (I don't buy those chocolate Lucky Charms which is full of nothing but sugar) but he normally will pick something like Frosted Flakes or Honeycombs, which I can handle. I find THAT all over and around the tables and chairs as well, and it's normally in an isolated area each time, which makes me know it's not just him being a sloppy eater :( I make a lot of things just 'special' for his liking - fried rice, I make with mushrooms, I make a special bit for him with no mushrooms. Eggs - I know he likes them poached, I like them over easy, N likes them basted. I do basted for N and I, poached for him, or just poach them all. I will make a single small pot of soup he likes for lunch, and the rest of us will eat another kind as well. I do try and make it easier for him, but sometimes it's just not possible to do it all the way only he likes it, as then we'd be eating next to nothing. > And of course talk with him about what the food-dropping is doing and why > it's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Banty Cleaning it up himself is definitely a very good and simple idea. Sometimes, though, I don't check and he's already bolted from the table and gone. Calling him back often causes him to be defiant and just stand there, refusing, and pout. Often I will just do it myself because it's easier than having a toddler track it about everywhere. I think talking would help, but for this, I will have to find a way that works for HIM to talk, as he can get difficult (as some do at this age, it seems!) I used to take out a portion for my picky eater and then do the rest of the cooking for the family. For instance she didn't want any sauce at all on her spaghetti, so I would take some out before I put the sauce on. What with microwaves etc now, you can even do this in advance and just reheat. >> And of course talk with him about what the food-dropping is doing and why >> it's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >for this, I will have to find a way that works for HIM to talk, as he can >get difficult (as some do at this age, it seems!) Bolting from the table is not acceptable table manners. Work on that first (while you continue to do the cleaning up for him). We always had to ask if we could be excused from the table, and sometimes the answer was No. Once you get that under control, then you can work on the food issue. Pouting is also not acceptable. Do not cave in and do it yourself. If you have a SO, then maybe he can take some responsibility for supervising the cleanup. > I used to take out a portion for my picky eater and then do the rest > of the cooking for the family. For instance she didn't want any sauce [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Once you get that under control, then you can work on the food issue. That sounds good. > Pouting is also not acceptable. Do not cave in and do it yourself. If > you have a SO, then maybe he can take some responsibility for > supervising the cleanup. Ugh. This is one thing that, actually, drives me crazy. N will remind DS to take his plate to the sink when he's done, but guess who leaves their dirty plate on the table??? The one who told the kid to remember his plate! Nothing drives me up a wall faster than when you (or he or she, whatever) tells the child to do something but cannot do it themselves. N does this all the time. DS will take his plate every time if reminded, most of the time if not reminded, and it's often N that reminds. It's also me that has to remind N to do the same. I do believe there are some things an adult can do or not do that a child can or can't do, but for something like this, I do believe that if you tell the kid to pick up his plate, you better do it as well. I have, many times, called N back to the table to put his plate in the sink. N has an issue with authority, and always has, and I simply get an, "Alright, I'll do it in a bit." and I'll say, no, now please, as it should have been done already. He'll sit there doing whatever he was doing and I have left the plate and the next meal (usually breakfast for DS before school) the dirty plate is still sitting there if I haven't picked it up. > Ugh. This is one thing that, actually, drives me crazy. N will > remind DS to take his plate to the sink when he's done, but guess > who leaves their dirty plate on the table??? I had this problem with my husband. When I pressed him, he said that he worked hard all day and shouldn't *have* to take his own plate! Maybe your husband subconsciously feels the same way. I did point out that if he wants the kids to learn to take theirs, then he needs to lead by example, and he got better. Not perfect, but better. And he generally helps with the rest of the cleanup -- will even do it himself if I'm busy or being lazy, so I can't complain. Zorra >> Ugh. This is one thing that, actually, drives me crazy. N will >> remind DS to take his plate to the sink when he's done, but guess >> who leaves their dirty plate on the table??? One of the things that used to drive me crazy as a child was that my mom would tell my sister and me to clear the table, and my sister would suddenly realize that she should practice the piano. Of course piano practice was HIGH priority, and clearing the table was not as high. So she would practice at least until the table was cleared. In an attempt to keep her from getting out of her chores, I would clear the whole table except I would leave the vegetable dishes there. Then my mom would get mad because the table was not cleared. Another problem I had was that my mom would call us to get up in the morning, and my sister wouldn't get up. I always had to get up first and get finished in the bathroom before she would get up. Sometimes I would stay in bed and not get up, and that would make my mom really angry because we weren't up and would be late to school. I was never successful in out waiting my sister and getting up second. >I had this problem with my husband. When I pressed him, he said that >he worked hard all day and shouldn't *have* to take his own plate! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >generally helps with the rest of the cleanup -- will even do it >himself if I'm busy or being lazy, so I can't complain. When I was first married, I was objecting to doing some household chore - I don't remember what it was, but I suddenly had an epiphany -- My dh was NOT my sibling!!! I was not in competition with him for my parents attention. I did not have to be sure that things were "fair" because we were a team. So I would suggest that the OP should have her son clear more than just his own plate - like clearing his dad's plate as well. It's something nice he can do for his dad. >>> Ugh. This is one thing that, actually, drives me crazy. N will >>> remind DS to take his plate to the sink when he's done, but guess [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the whole table except I would leave the vegetable dishes there. Then > my mom would get mad because the table was not cleared. My brother's one was to "pick" a fight with me and my sister. We used to be "asked" (in that compulsory way) for my sister (oldest) to do the washing up, me to do the drying and him (youngest) to put away. I remember one particular time where we were being particularly careful not to let him pick a fight and he went off in a huff because I handed something back to my sister because it was still dirty. She didn't mind: I didn't mind, but as we were refusing to argue when he was trying he chose to storm off because of that:-) d > Another problem I had was that my mom would call us to get up in the > morning, and my sister wouldn't get up. I always had to get up first > and get finished in the bathroom before she would get up. Sometimes I > would stay in bed and not get up, and that would make my mom really > angry because we weren't up and would be late to school. I was never > successful in out waiting my sister and getting up second. Now that is a problem I have with dh. If I get up straight away then I'm ready ages before him, and, for some reason I'm not quite sure why, it makes little difference what time (within about half an hour) what time I move. If I don't get up, he lies there waiting for me to get up and we're then late. Debbie >>I had this problem with my husband. When I pressed him, he said that >>he worked hard all day and shouldn't *have* to take his own plate! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > just his own plate - like clearing his dad's plate as well. It's > something nice he can do for his dad. >. The cereal for breakfast? He even gets to pick that out almost every >time. I do have a say (I don't buy those chocolate Lucky Charms which is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sometimes it's just not possible to do it all the way only he likes it, as > then we'd be eating next to nothing. If he does this with foods he likes, foods he picks out, then this is not solely, or perhaps not at all, an issue of hiding/disposing incorrectly of items not wanted/preferred. It is a behavioral issue that needs to be addressed as such. After doing this for as long as he has been it is a habit, perhaps one he is unaware he is engaging in a lot of the time. He needs to have the behavior brought to his attention so he is aware of it. He also needs to clearly hear that it is unacceptable and what the acceptable alternatives are. A discussion at the time of discovery of the first mess would be appropriate [even a mess of one bean], including the clear statement of what can be done instead. Involved in that discussion could be a question about what the reason he is doing it but don't allow lots of discussion with excuses because you will get side tracked enough that he will loose the main point of the whole discussion. Asking him for solutions is appropriate for his age, although you may have to veto some or all of them as either too drastic [common offering of kids] or otherwise inappropriate. Guided suggestions such as offering choices A and B might be helpful, depending on him and how receptive he is during the conversation. Cleaning up his mess every single time he makes one is part of such a solution. Limiting or banning eating out at friends/restaurants might be another component because you have no guarantees he won't exhibit the behavior there since he does it at home [your explanation to him]. Resumption of eating away from home could be earned by successfully following the proper practices for a week might be a good reward, if he sees it as one, for compliance with house rules. Don't make him work longer than he is capable of sustaining the behavior or he and you are set up for a failure you don't want to deal with. Do your best to set him up for success without making it a gimme; make him realize he did have to do something to earn the desired event/item. Make sure you give positive feedback to him [express that you have noticed] every time he complies with the rule, in the beginning stages. After he's made it through a week, say, change your complements, which should be genuine not gushy, to intermittent. An intermittent reinforcement schedule is the strongest one there is because the person has no idea when they will receive the reinforcer [the compliment/praise] and want it enough that they will continue the behavior until they get it. Fade out the frequency of the praise as he gets better at doing what is expected without reminders. I hope those thoughts are helpful and good luck! -Aula >The mushrooms are just a small example, more often than not, it's other >things. No, I will NOT cut the bread up so he doesn't have crust. At 6, he can cut off the crust himself and throw the crust away in the garbage can. >No, I will not dig through a bag of mixed vegetables and only pick out the >peas, a few carrots and some corn. The bag of mixed vegetables comes >with peas, carrots, corn, green beans. One other type I have bought also >has the lima beans in it. Why not buy separate bags of each veggie and mix it up for the meal, that way you can mix only the ones he likes and take his portion out than add the other veggies for the other people who like them. >I do my best to scoop him out only what he likes and leave the >green beans and limas in there, but again, every now and then, one will slip >in, and really, sorry about his luck, one bean on his plate can be pushed >aside. I agree with this, but in general, I prefer single veggies myself so I never do buy bags of mixed veggies anyway. There is no reason to have a mix at every meal - you can have one veggie at one meal and another one another day. >The cereal for breakfast? He even gets to pick that out almost >every time. I do have a say (I don't buy those chocolate Lucky >Charms which is full of nothing but sugar) but he normally will >pick something like Frosted Flakes or Honeycombs, which I can >handle. I find those full of sugar too, but that's ok sometimes. >I find THAT all over and around the tables and chairs as well, and >it's normally in an isolated area each time, which makes me know >it's not just him being a sloppy eater :( Have you asked him why he does this? Cleaning up each time does seem to be the solution at this point. >I make a lot of things just 'special' for his liking - fried rice, I make >with mushrooms, I make a special bit for him with no mushrooms. Eggs - I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >it's just not possible to do it all the way only he likes it, as then we'd >be eating next to nothing. I would not suggest doing things only the way he likes things, but I generally did make portions for kids who were picky without the ingredients they did not like. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > >Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to > >do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I think that kids should be served what the rest of the family is eating...it is a family meal. Unless it is something very spicy that the kids haven't yet acquired a taste for, of course. We required our son to eat at least one bite of whatever e were eating before he could have more of what he liked. Today, he is a great eater and there is really only one food that he doesn't like...asparagus! I don't either, so daddy has to eat that somehere else! Our son is almost 16 now and recently thanked us for making him eat different foods (on vacation, we eat local foods...grits and low country food in Charleston, turtle steak and conch in Grand Cayman), rather than fast food, chicken fingers, pizza, etc., because he recently went on a one week trip with friends and was nearly the only non picky eater of the group, the rest of the kids only wanted junk food and got angry if it wasn't pizza every night, instead of enjoying new foods. Julie askmeanmom.com <snip> > I think that kids should be served what the rest of the family is > eating...it is a family meal. Unless it is something very spicy that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of the kids only wanted junk food and got angry if it wasn't pizza > every night, instead of enjoying new foods. Just because that method "worked" for your child doesn't mean that it will work on all. My parents required I ate small amounts of two things, one was bread and the other was mashed potato. Today even the feel of mashed potato makes me throw up (literally) and I can cope with bread only in the best circumstances (which most of the time it isn't). I was always happy to try different foods, which my siblings weren't, and had a much more varied diet than them when they left home, but I was more picky in what I ate. I think if my parents hadn't insisted I ate bread then I would have started to enjoy it gradually, but because I had to eat a small amount, it became more of an issue than it should have been. Debbie > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > more of an issue than it should have been. > Debbie You're very right. I think it's more the child than the method when it comes to picky eating. As far as not requiring spicy foods or foods which the child hasn't acquired a taste for, I don't see the difference. Either one is something the child hasn't acquired a taste for. ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >to enjoy it gradually, but because I had to eat a small amount, it became >more of an issue than it should have been. The other thing that strikes me about this is the spicy bit. I've heard a lot of people assume that spicy is the outlier, spicy is the acquired taste, not-spicey is the default everyone should eat if someone like a family member doesn't like spicy. Bland is some kind of default neutral taste that shouldn't bother anyone. It's a really bad assumption thoug a common one. Well, I'm fairly widely tolerant of foods, but very *bland* foods I have real problems with sometimes. Things like egg salad especially. But if mashed potatoes are unsalted, it can trigger my gag reflex, there are some other examplse like grits unless something is mixed in. Banty ( if you want to torture me, make me eat an egg salad sandwich on white bread bllleeeeaahh) > Banty ( if you want to torture me, make me eat an egg salad sandwich on > white > bread bllleeeeaahh) That is what I had for lunch yesterday. It's one of my favorites. Though perhaps our egg salad is different than you are used to. Egg salad is one of the mainstays that I sort of burned out on right after my Gastric Bypass. Eating only pureed gets old but egg salad I managed the whole time I was at that eating level. Cindi >> Banty ( if you want to torture me, make me eat an egg salad sandwich on >> white >> bread bllleeeeaahh) > >That is what I had for lunch yesterday. It's one of my favorites. Though >perhaps our egg salad is different than you are used to. Oh, I've had it with the celery, with the paprika, with the this and the that to dress it up (my midwestern roots). Even with some chili. But nothing makes up for that basic mushy cold bland basic texture. Banty >>> Banty ( if you want to torture me, make me eat an egg salad sandwich on >>> white [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > makes up > for that basic mushy cold bland basic texture. Very true. Potted meat is one of those textures that makes me what to hurl. Cindi > Banty >><snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > white > bread bllleeeeaahh) We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of food is served then these things that bother any one person would not be the ONLY thing that is ever served. So if you are bothered by very bland foods, then you are going to choose the brocolli over the egg salad. But on balance, no one is going to starve themselves on whatever stuff is around most of the time. My issue around ... catering (not finding a word I like here, not trying to be incindiary) overmuch to a picky eater is that a balance must be struck between the notion that meal time is a pleasant time and that it should be free of excessive stress and the notion that the world does not spin around the child's desires. Mom has a lot of pressures on her, from other sibs to ...whatever, that picking out your green beans so that they dont sit next to the peas on the plate is a little absurd. Or that Mom should not make use of the convenience of mixed veggies so that the child needn't be exposed to those aforementioned green beans. (Dont get me wrong, I see no moral need for mixed veggies. Thats not the point.) At some point it is actually GOOD for the child to realize that his or her likes and dislikes are just one of a miriad of issues facing a family including good nutrician (I had to put that in because I would not have an any time you dont want to eat what is being served you can eat macaroni policy in my house for example), the practical concerns and the likes and dislikes of the rest of the family members. It is also an oft overlooked concern to teach your children how to politely decline something that they don't care for, or cannot stomach and that it is impolite to criticize what the cook chose to prepare. Those smart folks on this board who advised me to 1. stop fighting about what he eats, to offer and keep my trap shut 2. engage him in the decision process 3. start talking about nutricon were all right on the money for this family, incidentally. My picky eater is offered. If he declines, we say nothing. We make what we make, some nights he chooses. He can find something to eat at every meal. Anyway this is not about the solution that worked for this family so much as my feelings sometimes as I read threads on picky eaters. Cheers. > We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have > about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of food [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one is going to starve themselves on whatever stuff is around most of the > time. I think what many people forget is that we tend to eat differently these days. Once Upon a Time, dinner consisted of a wider variety of simpler foods, in many US homes: meat, potatoes, a couple of veggies, maybe salad, bread, dessert, etc. You could easily decline one or more items on the table and still not go away hungry. Today, we do more with one-dish meals, foods all mixed together, etc. Refusing to eat one thing may mean that you're refusing almost the entire meal. It may not be that kids are so much pickier now (as so many accuse). It may simply be that refusing to eat any particular food has a larger impact at any given meal. That said, I do understand that there are some families who do a lot of things that encourage picky eating. I just think that this notion that every picky kid is the product of a spineless parent isn't particularly accurate or helpful. Best wishes, Ericka >> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >> about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka Indeed. >> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >> about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka One thought though... Frank McCourt would not have asked what was IN the food he ws benig offered if he was ever offered food. I think from a health standpoint we expect to eat to MUCH and that colors our opinion of picky eaters. The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never heard of picky eating being a problem in Asia. These picky eater threads often come down to how to get your kids to eat. I think that is a mistake. Lots of recommendations are forthcoming about how to camouflage, appease, jolly and fuss to get folks to eat. I think *that* is a big mistake. I am all for fun. And fun should be had often, mealtimes and other times. But too much fooling around in order to get someone to eat is a bad idea. >>> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>> about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never >heard of picky eating being a problem in Asia. Maybe it isn't a big news item, but the parents I know from India and China (and other places, but India and China largely in my tech firm) do report some picky eating problems. They like this; this don't like that. They leave this, hog that. If they don't have picky eaters maybe it's because they wait until later to introduce bland foods ;-) Banty [snip] >>The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never >>heard of picky eating being a problem in Asia. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If they don't have picky eaters maybe it's because they wait until later to > introduce bland foods ;-) The problems with picky eaters go back centuries: one of my books has a journal entry from the 1700s about a small child refusing to eat something. Heck, don't you all know the poem that starts "Whatever's the matter with Mary Jane", and has the refrain "It's lovely rice pudding for dinner again" (Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >[snip] >>>The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >(Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) Well I-all don't know that poem and never heard of it. HOWEVER, I agree that there have been picky eaters for quite a long time. My mom, born in 1909 was one. She hated fish because of the bones and would make her mother mash up the fish with her fingers to be sure there were no bones in it. I've posted this before, but my grandmother - at her wits end - finally went to the doctor and what he told her to do was to put my mother to bed and not let her out of the bed and give her nothing to eat but mashed potatoes and blanc mange for a week. Blanc mange is even blander than rice pudding (because we always at least had raisins in our rice pudding. >>[snip] >>>>The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > even blander than rice pudding (because we always at least had raisins > in our rice pudding. Did it work? >> Well I-all don't know that poem and never heard of it. >> >> HOWEVER, I agree that there have been picky eaters for quite a long >> time. My mom, born in 1909 was one. She hated fish because of the >> bones and would make her mother mash up the fish with her fingers to >> be sure there were no bones in it. I should note that my grandmother only had two children and one of them (my mom's little brother) died when he was about 4. So my grandmother was a helicopter parent. >> I've posted this before, but my grandmother - at her wits end - >> finally went to the doctor and what he told her to do was to put my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Did it work? Yes. [snip] >>The problems with picky eaters go back centuries: one of my books has a >>journal entry from the 1700s about a small child refusing to eat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Well I-all don't know that poem and never heard of it. It's by AA Milne, who wrote the original bboks about Chrisopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh (I think in the 1930s). SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >>[snip] >>>>The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >>(Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) I take it you don't like it. You need it properly made not school dinners or Ambroisier. > Well I-all don't know that poem and never heard of it. It's AA Milne (of Winnie the Pooh). "What is the matter with Mary Jane She's crying with all her might and main And she won't eat her dinner-rice pudding again- What is the matter with Mary Jane? What is the matter with Mary Jane I've promised her dolls and a daisy chain And a book about animals-all in vain- What is the matter with Mary Jane? What is the matter with Mary Jane She's perfectly well and hasn't a pain But look at her now-she's beginning again- What is the matter with Mary Jane? What is the matter with Mary Jane I've promised her sweets and a ride on the train And I've begged her to stop for a bit and explain- What is the matter with Mary Jane? What is the matter with Mary Jane She's perfectly well and hasn't a pain And it's lovely rice pudding for dinner again- What is the matter with Mary Jane?" Or that's what I remember of it anyway. I think it's in "When we were very young" but it could be "Now we are 6". Dh would sympathise with Mary Jane. Rice pudding is one of the few things that really does turn his stomach. Personally I quite like it (as long as it's home made not Ambroisier) I suspect my children might like it, so maybe I'll try it at some point. They'd like stirring the jam in anyway. Debbie [snip] >>>(Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) >> > I take it you don't like it. You need it properly made not school dinners or > Ambroisier. [snip] Oh no, I do like it properly made. You can now get it in Waitrose etc in the readymeal range. Seems a bit pointless (like ready cooked jacket potatoes). SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three > (Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) Is that the same as rice porridge? I love rice porridge. It's not so bland when it's cooked in chicken stock. >>(Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) > > Is that the same as rice porridge? I love rice porridge. It's not so > bland when it's cooked in chicken stock. No. It's cooked in milk, with sugar, in the oven for several hours, and eaten for dessert. SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >> (Rice pudding is a lovely bland dish of rice cooked into mush.) > > Is that the same as rice porridge? I love rice porridge. It's not so > bland when it's cooked in chicken stock. No I don't think so. I haven't heard of rice porridge. Rice pudding is a sweet dish (you can buy it tinned which is not very good). It's pudding rice cooked in milk (in the oven) with a bit of butter and nutmeg on the top. You stir brown sugar or jam into it. I haven't made it for at least 15 years so I can't remember the recipe offhand. Debbie >>>> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>> about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Banty LOL! > The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never > heard of picky eating being a problem in Asia. Huh? I'm asian and I was a picky kid. My mom was a picky kid. My brother was a picky kid. My asian friend said she had no choice. If she didn't eat, she was beaten, so she was not picky. >> The Asians have been mixing their ingredients for unknown time. I have never >> heard of picky eating being a problem in Asia. > >Huh? I'm asian and I was a picky kid. My mom was a picky kid. My brother >was a picky kid. My asian friend said she had no choice. If she didn't >eat, she was beaten, so she was not picky. Ah-HA. So there's our answer about what do do about picky kids. Hear that, Xkatx? Beat your kid :-) Banty >> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I >> have about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka I agree with this. I don't think my children are particularly picky (at least compared to some complaints I hear.) I could feed them grilled chicken/beef/fish and some combination of potatoes/rice, green beans, squash, asparagus, broccoli, lima beans, corn and spinach every night of the week. They'd eat it all and never complain. But my husband and I don't want to eat like that every night - it's boring. So on the nights I cook something we want to eat, I make sure the meal includes something they'll eat - even if it's just rice and raw carrots. Clisby >>> We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>> about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Clisby We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not know that any significant number of families have opted for a single dish meal with no sides. >>>>We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>>about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > that any significant number of families have opted for a single dish meal > with no sides. I wasn't talking about a one-dish meal with no sides. I was talking about, say: - onion soup - steamed mussels with garlic - green salad - cauliflower or broccoli soup - mushroom quiche - green salad - Korean pickled vegetables - shrimp sauteed in garlic - rice My children wouldn't touch any of the above, other than the rice and picking any raw carrots out of the salad, assuming it had no dressing on it. Clisby My children wouldn't touch any of that. >>>>>We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>>>about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I wasn't talking about a one-dish meal with no sides. I was talking > about, say: I was kinda backhandedly referring to Ericka's comment. But that said, there is nothing wrong with including side elements the kids will enjoy, like rice and carrots. I think that is the best of all. > - onion soup > - steamed mussels with garlic [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > My children wouldn't touch any of that. I'm going to try this again - the last one disappeared into the ether. When I was cooking for a family I found that mixed vegetables were not a good buy (they tended to be heavy on the cheap vegetables) and were basically nasty tasting. I bought bags of frozen vegetables, and if I wanted to mix them (as in corn and limas to make succotash), I would just put in some corn from the corn bag and some limas from the lima bag. But since I myself preferred to have my vegetables plain and unmixed, and so (except for succotash) did dh, that way of doing vegetables worked for me. >>>>>>We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>>>>about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>>>accuse). It may simply be that refusing to eat any particular >>>>>food has a larger impact at any given meal. I'm not sure if I am typical of Once Upon a Time, although I was cooking for a family in the 60s and 70s. (dd#1 was born in 1961 and ds was born in 1971). At most meals for four of us, I would have meat, a starch, a vegetable and one other side - either another vegetable, a fruit or a salad. We didn't have bread on the table unless it was something like lasagna where I would have Italian or French bread and a salad. If I had a casserole with the meat and starch in it, then we'd have a salad or some vegetable side with it. I didn't count dessert as part of the meal. My rule of thumb was that for every person who was eating, I added another dish to the table. So when dd#3 came along, I tended to have more sides. >>>>> That said, I do understand that there are some >>>>>families who do a lot of things that encourage picky [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>> >>>>Clisby I don't understand how it could be boring when you have all those vegetables available. DH would (and does) steam fresh broccoli every single night when he cooks (which is all the time now). >>> We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >>> we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> I wasn't talking about a one-dish meal with no sides. I was talking >> about, say: >> - onion soup >> - steamed mussels with garlic >> - green salad This would not be a meal that I would have served any grown people. It has no substance to it IMHO. My dh wouldn't eat the mussels because he doesn't like them so I wouldn't have cooked them even though I love them. I also wouldn't serve my family a soup course except at lunch. So keeping the green salad part, I would have done meatballs with onion soup and rice cooked all in one pan, and probably would have also had a vegetable along with the salad. >> - cauliflower or broccoli soup >> - mushroom quiche >> - green salad I love all these things, but dh does not like quiche or either of those soups and I doubt if most of my kids would have eaten them either. He loves broccoli as a plain veggie, but not in soup. This meal has a bit more heft to it, but I'd have to have some other item in this meal. >> - Korean pickled vegetables >> - shrimp sauteed in garlic >> - rice ACK. Dh loves steamed shrimp but does not like them fried in any fashion. I've never had Korean pickled vegetables, but since I don't like most pickles I wouldn't hold out much hope. DD#2 doesn't eat seafood except she will eat fried shrimp which her dad won't eat. DD#3 went to China with her grandmother and came back totally against rice, although I don't think she'd actually refuse to eat it. >> My children wouldn't touch any of the above, other than the rice and >> picking any raw carrots out of the salad, assuming it had no dressing on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> My children wouldn't touch any of that. DS and mostly DD#1 would eat anything - at least DD#1 would eat anything that her dad would eat. > I'm going to try this again - the last one disappeared into the ether. > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > vegetables available. DH would (and does) steam fresh broccoli every > single night when he cooks (which is all the time now). Because plainly cooked vegetables don't do anything for my taste buds. I don't dislike them, and I cook and eat them; but I'd rather have them in some other form. >>>>We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >>>>we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > meal has a bit more heft to it, but I'd have to have some other item > in this meal. Well, my husband and I are both computer programmers, not ditch-diggers. I'm sure the calorie count is high enough. Plus, my husband's idea of a great meal is potato soup. Just potato soup. That's a little bare-bones for me. >>>- Korean pickled vegetables >>>- shrimp sauteed in garlic [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > DS and mostly DD#1 would eat anything - at least DD#1 would eat > anything that her dad would eat. > I wasn't talking about a one-dish meal with no sides. I > was talking about, say: > > - onion soup > - steamed mussels with garlic > - green salad ok, i'd eat the soup & salad. i'm allergic to seafood. Tom might eat the salad, but he's not a big salad fan. he doesn't like onion soup or mussels. Boo would try the soup & eat the salad. i doubt he'd even want to try the mussels since neither parents is eating them. can't blame him. > - cauliflower or broccoli soup > - mushroom quiche > - green salad did you puree the mushrooms for me? ;) we'd all eat this, although maybe Boo would have texture issues with the quiche... > - Korean pickled vegetables > - shrimp sauteed in garlic > - rice again with the seafood! you hate me don't you? Tom adores shrimp. for some reason Boo won't touch it, although he likes lobster. for those of you that eat both, is this a texture thing or a taste thing? > My children wouldn't touch any of the above, other than the > rice and picking any raw carrots out of the salad, assuming > it had no dressing on it. really? Boo likes a rather wide array of salad dressings. he prefers them on the side as 'dipping sauce', but that's ok because that's a recommended way of reducing calories from dressings. how would your kids feel about orzo & pesto? hummus? taboule? plain yogurt? lee >>I wasn't talking about a one-dish meal with no sides. I >>was talking about, say: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > quiche... > No, but I'll puree the mushrooms if you want to change the menu to mushroom soup and broccoli quiche. Somehow, pureeing mushrooms to gon in a quiche sounds like A Bad Cooking Idea. >>- Korean pickled vegetables >>- shrimp sauteed in garlic [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > thing or a taste thing? > Oddly, my children like some shrimp. They'll both eat fried shrimp and, while it isn't their favorite, they'll eat boiled shrimp. for some reason, sauteed shrimp, grilled shrimp, shrimp etouffe, shrimp creole are all out. They might come around to it - at one time, they wouldn't eat crab, but the last time I sprung for really good ($25/lb.) crabmeat, they deigned to taste it and decided it was the best thing they'd had all week. >>My children wouldn't touch any of the above, other than the >>rice and picking any raw carrots out of the salad, assuming [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > plain yogurt? > lee Do you mean orzo with pesto mixed in, or just orzo? I'm sure they'd eat plain orzo. They will not eat hummus, tabbouleh, or plain yogurt. I've never offered them pesto. Mine don't like mayonnaise or salad dressings (even plain oil and vinegar.) Clisby >>>- cauliflower or broccoli soup >>>- mushroom quiche [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > pureeing mushrooms to gon in a quiche sounds like A Bad > Cooking Idea. ok! :) i had the *best* mushroom soup when i was out in San Francisco (well, the soup was at a B&B up the coast towards Muir Woods). i had only had white button mushrooms before that (except for one batch of butter fried morels that i ate to prove to my dad that those mushrooms i found weren't poison). i'm not crazy about white button mushrooms... this was a 5 mushroom cream soup & it was heaven! >> how would your kids feel about orzo & pesto? hummus? >> taboule? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mine don't like mayonnaise or salad dressings (even plain > oil and vinegar.) orzo with pesto mixed in. good cold, hot or room temp. i have to watch Boo with pesto or he'll eat it all, orzo or no. he loves pesto, plain basil pesto & sun-dried tomato pesto. he used to like tabbouleh, but wasn't as fond of it last time i made it. i think i got the lemon juice proportions off a bit though. he likes hummus, preferably with extra lemon & will happily eat plain unflavored yogurt (but if i put mini M&Ms in that's even better). he's also a huge fan of olive oil & spices for bread dipping. BTW, my family dinners at my grandmother's & at home always consisted of at least 2 veggies (4 or more at grandma's in the summer), potatoes or rice, meat, bread & butter, milk & dessert was available, but who had room?! lee First - when I was cooking, mixed vegetables were significantly nastier and also more expensive than buying the vegetables separately. >>>>>We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>>>about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > >My children wouldn't touch any of that. > First - when I was cooking, mixed vegetables were significantly > nastier and also more expensive than buying the vegetables separately. I think mixed vegetables are still pretty bad (assuming you mean the frozen kind). I don't know about cost, since I don't buy them. Clisby >>>>>>We've been through this thought before, but there is one concern I have >>>>>>about the "pickey eater" phenomenon. Seems to me that if a variety of [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >> >>My children wouldn't touch any of that. >> First - when I was cooking, mixed vegetables were >> significantly nastier and also more expensive than buying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mean the frozen kind). I don't know about cost, since I > don't buy them. i bet she meant the canned ones. Veg-All YUCK! and i never could figure out canned potatoes? why, why? potatoes are available pretty much year round & they keep well. we happen to like frozen mixed veggies (i won't buy frozen potatoes either, except tater tots...) lee > and i never could figure out canned potatoes? why, why? > potatoes are available pretty much year round & they keep > well. <idiot> Becausle like dude, you like have to like peel them and stuff. </idiot> We have them in germany, too and I have no idea why people buy them either. I really like the look of the peepled potatoes in a glas... NOT. Ugh, they look inedible, like little rubber balls or something. I don't know how well potatoes keep right now, because to be honest we finished a 3kg bag in the last week within 2 meals. Ok, so we had the neighbours over (mom, dad, 3 "kids" and one baby), but three kids had one potatoe each, my son doesn't eat boiled potatoes (I love my pressure cooker. They're done in under 10 minutes usually), I don't think the dad got more than half a potatoe from one of the kids, so the rest went into moms and my belly. Ohhhhhhh potatoes, with a bit of butter and herbs and salt. Or just some joghurt with herbs... Of course I forgot that the bag's all gone and I didn't buy any when I was grocery shopping today. Dang. And I just read that potatoes, skin and all are good when you're starting on the slippery slope of water retention. (Hello right foot, please stop hoarding the water, there's enough for everybody.) cu nicole >>> First - when I was cooking, mixed vegetables were >>> significantly nastier and also more expensive than buying [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > potatoes either, except tater tots...) > lee We have one recipe which uses tinned potatoes. Didn't know before dh produced that recipe you ould get tinned potatoes. Frozen potatoes? Never noticed them except as chips. The only frozen veg I would get it frozen peas (to eat raw mostly, we all enjoy that) and the only tinned veg is sweetcorn which at one point was the only food item #2 would consistantly eat in quantity. Frozen sweetcorn is horrible. Debbie >> First - when I was cooking, mixed vegetables were significantly >> nastier and also more expensive than buying the vegetables separately. > > I think mixed vegetables are still pretty bad (assuming you mean the > frozen kind). I don't know about cost, since I don't buy them. I like them in soup and rice and stuff but rarely use them like that anymore because the Hunter and Luke won't eat them anymore. I still buy them though - the babies think they are candy, lol. Veggies in South Dakota are not so good so whether or not frozen are icky probably depends on your point of reference ;) SignatureNikki, mama to Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Brock 4/06 Ben 4/06 > We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, we > will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not know > that any significant number of families have opted for a single dish meal > with no sides. Even if it's just one main item with a vegetable and a starch (or two veggies), it doesn't take the kid disliking much to be down to making a meal out of corn. When I was growing up, if I didn't like the salmon souffle, I could easily make a meal out of the salad, potatoes, two or more veggies, bread, and dessert that were likely to be present. I could even dislike two or three things on the table and still make a significant meal. Best wishes, Ericka >> We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >> we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one would have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners were. I didn't know anyone who made that much stuff. >>> We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >>> we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners were. I didn't > know anyone who made that much stuff. My grandmother was doing the cooking, and there were six of us at the table. I think this was common for my grandmother's era (though not so much for my parents'). You don't even want to know what Thanksgiving looked like ;-) I think the way my grandmother cooked was very common for her time. Food was mostly prepared relatively simply and there were more different things on the table. I think that is far less common today (or during my childhood-- my friends begged to eat at our house). When there's more variety on the table, there's less cost to telling a child "eat it or go hungry" because the child will likely find something to eat. If you've only got a couple things on the table, it's much harder for the parent to say "eat it or go hungry" and the parent has much more of an incentive to either cater to the child's limited preferences or push the child to eat. Best wishes, Ericka [snip] >> We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one >> would have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > an incentive to either cater to the child's limited > preferences or push the child to eat. Surely that's due to the number of people eating. If you are preparing enough food for six (without using much in the way of ready-prepared food), you are much more likely to have a wide variety. If you are only feeding four, then you need less food. Add to it that you might be buying pre-weighed packs of vegetables, and that you are feeding people who are less physically active (my Dad walked from our house to the station, then from the station to his office, my husband drives), then the quantity of feed needed is significantly less, and hence the number of dishes will be less. SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three > [snip] >>> We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > enough food for six (without using much in the way of ready-prepared > food), you are much more likely to have a wide variety. Sure...but families used to be bigger as well, and people engaged in more physical labor and needed more food. > If you are > only feeding four, then you need less food. Exactly. Smaller families, less physical activity, etc. all means that people put less variety on the table. It's natural and reasonable...but it's harder on the picky eater. People seem to think that "back in the day" there weren't picky eaters and it's just that today's kids are spoiled and not expected to eat a variety of foods. While that is obviously true in some families, today we simply don't eat anything like we did a couple generations back. We have very different foods (and much more variety) available to us and we have different forces acting on what we choose to put on the table. There were probably just as many picky eaters back then. It just wasn't as salient. Best wishes, Ericka > [snip] >>> We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one would [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > food), you are much more likely to have a wide variety. If you are > only feeding four, then you need less food. My parents made more food by increasing the volume of the individual items rather than increasing the number of items. > Add to it that you might be > buying pre-weighed packs of vegetables, and that you are feeding people > who are less physically active (my Dad walked from our house to the > station, then from the station to his office, my husband drives), then the > quantity of feed needed is significantly less, and hence the number of > dishes will be less. >>>We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >>>we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners were. I didn't > know anyone who made that much stuff. My mother didn't go in for things like salmon souffle, but when I was growing up we would often have had: - meat - potatoes or rice - at least one green vegetable - one other vegetable (possibly green, possibly squash or corn) - salad - bread - possibly dessert There were 8 of us (2 adults, 6 children). If the main dish was something like spaghetti (which everybody liked) we would have had salad and rolls with it. Clisby >>>>We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a stew, >>>>we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. I did not [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >- meat >- potatoes or rice or pasta >- at least one green vegetable or salad >- one other vegetable (possibly green, possibly squash or corn) >- salad [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Clisby That's exactly the way I cooked, except that we wouldn't have had bread, and if I had a green vegetable, I wouldn't also have had a salad, and if I had squash or corn, I wouldn't have had the potatoes, rice or pasta. I did do casseroles, and did not find out until dh took over the cooking that he didn't really care for them. What he usually cooks for the two of us now (and he serves up the plates so that there are no leftovers except of meat), a small piece of steak or a grilled chicken, two green vegetables or a vegetable and a salad, and a small cup of applesauce with a heavy dose of nutmeg. One of the vegetables is usually broccoli. He doesn't do canned vegetables but he will serve canned fruit. He will do baked potatoes (in the microwave) and also baked sweet potatoes (just plain with butter) or a butternut squash. Occasionally he will do a macaroni and tuna salad, or use the leftover roasted chicken for a really nice chicken salad, and sometimes he gets pork chops and makes orange pork chops with peas and potatoes. For that he uses frozen peas and canned potatoes, because the potatoes go in at the last minute. He can also do really nice fried chicken and home fries. >>>> We have more than one choice every night. If we are going to have a >>>> stew, we will have whole wheat rolls and a fruit salad for example. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > My mother didn't go in for things like salmon souffle, Well, we didn't have that sort of thing a lot either. I just mentioned it because it was one of the items I wasn't particularly fond of at the time ;-) > but when I was > growing up we would often have had: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If the main dish was something like spaghetti (which everybody liked) we > would have had salad and rolls with it. Very similar for us (though it was four adults and two children). Best wishes, Ericka > We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one would > have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners were. I didn't > know anyone who made that much stuff. It didn't occur to me until I read Rosalie's comment about serving more items as she had more children, but - were you from a small family? What Ericka's describing sounds pretty typical of dinner during my childhood, but my mother was cooking for herself and 7 other people. It's entirely possible she'd have made fewer dishes if she had had only 1 or 2 kids. Clisby >> We never had that many choices. more than 2 veggies? More than one would >> have been Thansgiving. I don't know how "normal" your dinners were. I >> didn't know anyone who made that much stuff. > > It didn't occur to me until I read Rosalie's comment about serving more > items as she had more children, but - were you from a small family? Huge family. > What Ericka's describing sounds pretty typical of dinner during my > childhood, but my mother was cooking for herself and 7 other people. It's > entirely possible she'd have made fewer dishes if she had had only 1 or 2 > kids. > > Clisby >> >Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to >> >do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] >of the kids only wanted junk food and got angry if it wasn't pizza >every night, instead of enjoying new foods. Well, I agree that this is where things should start, and that the whole family shouldn't have to be affected by one child's taste. But truly, as often as we hear it (as as much as I did it), exposing a child to all kinds of foods does not guarantee that they won't be a picker eater. Certain tastes and textures are perceived by some people differently than others, it seems to be inborn, and it's very common for kids to have it. To the extent that it's been postulated that the kid-pickiness may have evolved as a survival mechanism to protect kids from eating spoiled scraps, as they're less likely to survive a food-poisoning, and we evolved with our kids pretty much picking off whatever adults ate and getting what scraps they could. That your kid (and me as a kid) loves all kinds of foods isn't necessarily becuase of being exposed to all kinds of foods. To your anecdote I can counter with mine about my son ;-) Finally, it strikes me that YOUR exception that you think oviously reasonable - spicy foods, is completely different from mine - very bland foods and certain textures. Banty > That your kid (and me as a kid) loves all kinds of foods isn't necessarily > becuase of being exposed to all kinds of foods. To your anecdote I can counter > with mine about my son ;-) And I can add a counter with mine about myself. My parents only tried to make me eat things very rarely when I was a kid. My mom said it was because she was picky as a kid and she outgrew it so she thought we would, too. Well, I did outgrow it, but it wasn't because I was forced to eat whatever was being served -- I only once was forced to eat. My tastebuds merely changed. > Finally, it strikes me that YOUR exception that you think oviously reasonable - > spicy foods, is completely different from mine - very bland foods and certain > textures. Right on. It bothers me that people think because something doesn't bother them, that it shouldn't bother the kids. Also, spicy foods aren't really an acquired taste for everyone. Some people are born liking it. Macaroni salad (or potato or other such salads) was an acquired taste for me because it's so bland. > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what > to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > beans or whatever out of his meals. He'll discreetly 'drop' the stuff he > doesn't like under the table, under his chair or on his chair. If it were me, I would keep my eye on him during meals. Presumably you are sitting there too? Watch him. As his hand goes down to his chair, with food in it, you tell him that there is no purpose whatsoever to be moving food off the table to anywhere other than his mouth. If it persists, as with any other table manner problem, the meal is done. Also with a 6yo, probably preceeding the aforementioned, you might sit down and talk about it non-mealtime. Does he have a problem pushing it to the side of the plate? What is the problem? Can you think of any ways to solve this problem that don't involve stuffing the food into the chair? This is, of course, assuming this is a table manners issue you are willing to move on. My son prefers to have a separate small plate off his plate to move the stuff he can't stand. I don't really understand his reasoning. But I guess I don't have to. > It makes a huge mess, and quite frankly, doing a full vacuum of the table > area EVERY meal, 3x a day, shouldn't be necessary, I don't believe. But I > have to because there's a huge mess. I would not accept a 6yo pitching food on the floor, at least as much for the sake of said 6yo who is learning how to get along in the world and in a family. I would let him know that his presence at the table is contingent on his using table manners of a human being. If he cannot do that, he is not welcome at the table. Food will resume when he can eat it without strewning it all over the floor. (If he was 2 this would be a completely different matter.) > It isn't always stuff he doesn't like. To me, it almost seems like he's > gone back to the toddler stage of when he just doesn't want anymore, he'll > drop it. One quesion comes to mind... does he do this at school? If so, then my advice will be completely different. > His cereal at breakfast - if he doesn't want to finish it, he will do the > same dropping or hiding thing. I don't know why. I have never forced him [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > snack on the previous meal he filled up on) > I'm just wondering why he is dropping and hiding this food. He's 6. You can ask him. > It's really starting to drive me insane. I've always thought that the > food thing wasn't an issue. He has been doing this for quite some time - [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! > Any ideas? >> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what >> to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > food off the table to anywhere other than his mouth. If it persists, as > with any other table manner problem, the meal is done. Watching him the whole time, or even most of the time, is fairly hard. I often have to deal with DD1, as she's 22 months. Feeds herself, but still have to watch her like a hawk or food goes into her ears, hair, lap, whatever. I also have to spend a bit of time cutting up and getting her food ready for her to eat. I also often have to deal with DD2, who doesn't eat, but sits with us in her chair or in her exersaucer while we eat. I always have to turn to her and make sure I know she's there (and let her see me) or she has a clingy-freakout session. > Also with a 6yo, probably preceeding the aforementioned, you might sit > down and talk about it non-mealtime. Does he have a problem pushing it to [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >> Any ideas? >>> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know >>> what to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] >>> Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >>> Any ideas? This may or may not make a lick of sense here we go. . . He is 6 as said b-4 not 2, well explain this too him and explain that his sister may do this but it is NOT acceptable for him to do this, then as far as watching him ,have everyone's plate ready then call the to the table, i have 4 children that i watch as well as 2 babies at meal times when i baby-sit, i prepare the food that need cut up in the kitchen the set the items they can get themselves on the table then call them for eating all the same while eating with them and having to feed one of the babies as well as (Same as you) comforting and making sure the 4 mo is happy and yes she is very clingy also so i have too be insight at all times, now these are all 3 yo's not 6, but after they all go home i still have my 2 7 yo's my 6 yo and my 3 yo too feed and I continue to do this also.. just try to experiment around with "different- new" foods, that he has never had and he may open his eyes to something that is awesomely nutritious and delicious... as also noted easy and fun to make, another suggestion is having him help you prepare the food and washing the dishes, maybe when he see's how long it takes he will value your time cooking and realize this a bit... like i said just my .02,, Ok back to the regular scheduled programs. . .and ohh a good sight for good fun and fast meals is craftfoods .com give it a whirl. . . and by all means good luck!! Amanda >>>> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know >>>> what to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > craftfoods .com give it a whirl. . . and by all means good luck!! > Amanda do you mean kraftfoods . com? or is there a different site you were referencing? Teri > Watching him the whole time, or even most of the time, is > fairly hard. I often have to deal with DD1, as she's 22 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and make sure I know she's there (and let her see me) or > she has a clingy-freakout session. so, has this behavior started since his sisters were born? possibly it's attention-seeking? is it possible to involve him more in menu planning & food preparation? i mean let him look at cookbooks & see what he might want to make sort of input. or take him to the store & let him choose veggies to try. he's 6. he can cook simple meals with assistance. if he's the big boy cook, maybe you won't get such infantile attention seeking. after all, he *does* see the babies getting a lot of attention... lee >>> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know >>> what to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > have to watch her like a hawk or food goes into her ears, hair, lap, > whatever. That's almost 2. I would broach this at the same time! You fiddle with your food, your tray goes and you are DONE. She will maybe understand the words. But she won't get it until she experiments a few times. If she throws a tantrum, do not cave in. 1. If she was really, really hungry she would have been more motivated to eat 2. she is not going to starve before the next regularly scheduled snack or meal. > I also have to spend a bit of time cutting up and getting her food ready > for her to eat. I also often have to deal with DD2, who doesn't eat, but > sits with us in her chair or in her exersaucer while we eat. I always > have to turn to her and make sure I know she's there (and let her see me) > or she has a clingy-freakout session. You have to always be looking at the 2 year old? >> Also with a 6yo, probably preceeding the aforementioned, you might sit >> down and talk about it non-mealtime. Does he have a problem pushing it to [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >>> Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >>> Any ideas? >>>> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know >>>> what to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > would have been more motivated to eat 2. she is not going to starve before > the next regularly scheduled snack or meal. This is exactly why I normally try and keep an eye on her. She's normally a fantastic eater. She'll basically eat almost everything and anything. The only thing that we've found, so far, that she does not like are green olives. Other than that, she'll pretty much eat anything. She doesn't slow down, though. She'll eat great until she's full, and then it's a matter of seconds, and yes, her plate and tray is gone as soon as I see that she's basically finished. She will, almost every time, say "done!" when she's done - quick ask of "Do you want more?" and she'll either say more or done again. Her "tantrums" are spitting. If she's throwing her tantrum, it's never screaming, crying, kicking, shouting, hitting, whatever... It's her going limp and just falling on the floor and laying there spitting. Yes, I have been trying to ignore it, as was suggested to me long ago, but that doesn't seem to be working. Distracting doesn't work for this either, so I let her finish, then I do make her clean it up. That's a tough one to deal with, and not the point. >> I also have to spend a bit of time cutting up and getting her food ready >> for her to eat. I also often have to deal with DD2, who doesn't eat, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You have to always be looking at the 2 year old? Yes, and if I'm not looking at her, I'm looking at the 7 month old. Or trying to concentrate on nursing the 7 month old while I try and feed myself and keep her hands out of my food or whatever. Or I'm trying to listen to N tell me about his day at work or DS's day at school. I shouldn't have to be watching the 6 year old like a hawk, but I seem to have to anyways. Also, I've noticed, he's sneaky as can be. If, keeping to examples already out, I am taking DD2's tray and plate away, he'll do it then as it only takes a second for me to turn my back and it to happen. >>> Also with a 6yo, probably preceeding the aforementioned, you might sit >>> down and talk about it non-mealtime. Does he have a problem pushing it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>> One quesion comes to mind... does he do this at school? If so, then my >>> advice will be completely different. As far as I know, no he doesn't. He also doesn't really eat at school - he's in kindergarden, and he's home by lunch time, so the kindergarden kids only bring a light snack to school for mid-morning. He does do this at other places, though, like if we go to my parents' place for dinner. It seems to be more meals, not daily snacks or treats or whatever. >>>> His cereal at breakfast - if he doesn't want to finish it, he will do >>>> the same dropping or hiding thing. I don't know why. I have never [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>>> Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! >>>> Any ideas? >Yes, and if I'm not looking at her, I'm looking at the 7 month old. Or >trying to concentrate on nursing the 7 month old while I try and feed myself [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >am taking DD2's tray and plate away, he'll do it then as it only takes a >second for me to turn my back and it to happen. This strikes me as a lot more complicated than just an eating problem. He's either doing this on purpose to be annoying or he has to do it for some reason of his own. >> Yes, and if I'm not looking at her, I'm looking at the 7 month old. Or >> trying to concentrate on nursing the 7 month old while I try and feed myself [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > He's either doing this on purpose to be annoying or he has to do it > for some reason of his own. It does sound like there's an element of a power struggle. It seems like for whatever reason, he doesn't like the rules (reasonable as they may be) and this is his way of pushing back. Best wishes, Ericka >>> Yes, and if I'm not looking at her, I'm looking at the 7 month old. Or >>> trying to concentrate on nursing the 7 month old while I try and feed [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka This might seem fair and reasonable. I have noticed that the worst time for this is at dinner, and I've also noticed his behaviour in general seems to be less than desireable at this time of the year when the kids are all outside playing. DS has picked up a real mouth and attitude, and it does seem to stem from these other boys. Yes, I know DS is the only one who should be responsible for his own behaviour like this, but it's just frustrating. The food is the first battle I would like to pick and conquer with him. Winter comes, the neighbourhood kids aren't all outside, and he turns back into the little boy that he can be - listens and is just a typical boy for his age. Spring comes around and the other kids come out and well, it just seems to bring along some major issues, and yes, at times, it does appear that he just doesn't like the rules. I think this *might* have something to do with the simple fact that he does have rules and expectations from us. These other kids, OTOH, don't seem to have that from their parents. It's not uncommon for me to see one or a few of these boys in the neighbourhood out wandering around at 9, 10pm. On a school night. Not that it matters, but I wouldn't wander aimlessly around at that hour, I would never allow my child to either. Many of the other kids - 97% of the time the other parents have no idea (or seem to care) where their children are or what they're doing. >>>> Yes, and if I'm not looking at her, I'm looking at the 7 month old. Or >>>> trying to concentrate on nursing the 7 month old while I try and feed [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >behaviour like this, but it's just frustrating. The food is the first >battle I would like to pick and conquer with him. I know we always say to pick your battles, but I'm not sure that conquer is the word I'd use for that. He's already proved that he doesn't have to do what you want. It will be three or four times as difficult to 'win' this battle. >Winter comes, the neighbourhood kids aren't all outside, and he turns back >into the little boy that he can be - listens and is just a typical boy for >his age. Spring comes around and the other kids come out and well, it just >seems to bring along some major issues, and yes, at times, it does appear >that he just doesn't like the rules. I think this *might* have something to >do with the simple fact that he does have rules and expectations from us. Is it like that RL Stevenson poem about going to bed when it is still light out in the summer? Are the kids outside during your dinner time? >These other kids, OTOH, don't seem to have that from their parents. It's >not uncommon for me to see one or a few of these boys in the neighbourhood [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >have no idea (or seem to care) where their children are or what they're >doing. What age are the children that are out? I don't think that there is that much bad about having children unscheduled at some point. Or they could be bad parents or they could be overstressed parents who have no options. Maybe he is a little depressed in the winter when the days are shorter, and he has more energy in the spring and summer. Maybe if you loosened the control a little bit, he would relax about the food hiding thing. Or maybe you could use going out after dinner as a reward for not hiding food. Or you could feed him his dinner separately from the rest of the family - after everyone else has eaten or just feed the two kids at the same time and you and your husband eat afterwards by yourselves. Or you could let him pick a snack and watch TV while the rest of you ate, and then feed him on his own afterwards. If he were my child, I would just put plastic down (I used to use old plastic tablecloths backed with fabric that I had for picnics around the high chair) all around his chair so that it would be impossible for him to put food anywhere except on top of the plastic and then let him do what he wants, and just take up the plastic and put any food that was in that area in the garbage. I used to wash the tablecloth also. I would refuse to fight about it, or even acknowledge it. I know that this is not age appropriate, but if it has the effect of making less work for you, then you will feel less stressed about it. When you are less stressed, he will realize that he's not getting to you and may eventually stop. What might happen next, of course, is that he will act out in some other and equally inappropriate, destructive and irritating way. You may prefer the problem that you have now to some problem in the future. . >> It does sound like there's an element of a power >> struggle. It seems like for whatever reason, he doesn't >> like the rules (reasonable as they may be) and this is >> his way of pushing back. > This might seem fair and reasonable. > I have noticed that the worst time for this is at dinner, and I've also [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > have no idea (or seem to care) where their children are or what they're > doing. Is it an issue in the fall as well? Have you considered allergies as a possible culprit? I know when DS1's seasonal allergies kick up, not only is he dealing with itchy eyes and a runny nose, but it affects his mood and behavior as well. He gets generally cranky and resistant. In fact, I usually notice the behavioral change before he notices the eyes/nose/ throat issues. Are you implying above that the food hiding thing wasn't happening in the winter, and is a new phenomenon? I understand from your past posts that he's a bit of a challenging child to deal with, and that you have to be fairly firm with him. There are some areas where kids a traditionally very capable of mounting a resistance if they feel (rightly or wrongly) that they've been too controlled. Potty training and eating are the prime examples of those. They know they hold most of the cards with these two areas. You can't make them eat, and you can't make them go in the potty...and they know it. It may be helpful to back off on the "you must eat X or else Y" rules for a bit and instead concentrate on the table rules that have to do with him being a pleasant dinner companion. For some kids who are prone to engaging in power struggles, you may be better off being very strict about a minimal set of rules that are absolutely necessary, and then let him make his own decisions in areas that aren't as important. For instance, of the table rules you described, the ones that seem more expendable to me would be the ones about him having to finish every bite of what he takes and an "acceptable" amount of what he's served. If he goes wild eating between meals, you could specify particular snack times so he's not eating all day and spoiling his meals. He's going to decide what to put in his mouth anyway, so why create a power struggle over it? And if he is responsible for cleaning up what he drops/ hides, then that isn't an effective way of getting back at you for the rules he's resenting. Making a mess doesn't create more work for you. It just creates more work for him. Of course, being a clever sort, he's likely to find a way to make the cleaning more work for you as well, so if you go in that direction, you'll need to have a strategy in mind for how you'll deal with it when he balks at cleaning and makes it five times as much work as if you'd just taken care of it yourself. Best wishes, Ericka > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what > to do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! > Any ideas? I know my 6yo is quite picky. One of the things that he is picky about is having food that he doesn't like touching food that he does like. Maybe you can provide him with a small dish on the side, into which he can place the stuff he doesn't like. It might keep the discards more 'contained' while allowing him to enjoy the food he does like without the 'contamination' of touching the unliked items. Teri > I'm just wondering why he is dropping and hiding this food. It's really > starting to drive me insane. I've always thought that the food thing wasn't > an issue. He has been doing this for quite some time - I'd say he started > about 2 years ago, but lately it seems to be getting worse. He's old enough for you to give him a broom or dustpan and brush after each meal and ask him to clean it up. "I know you don't like cleaning up. Neither do I. From now on, if you drop it, you clean it." That might curb the habit a bit. gloria p > DS is now 6. He seems to be a fairly fussy eater, and has been for some > time. Sounds like my 6yo! Not only does he get fussier by the day but his appetite has really gone down as well. > The problem is, though, I am getting sick and tired of certain things he > does. When eating, if he doesn't like it (and I know he doesn't) rather > than fight about it, I tell him to just pick it out and put it on the side > of his plate. I do that a little bit too. Luke hates it. He's totally offended by it. He mostly has to live with it but I do try to have options available so he can choose. For example I'll have plain corn as well as the mixed veggie. He also needs the food off his plate and away from his area, different forks etc. I can live with this as long as he keeps a lid on the verbal tirade. The problem is, he seems to > 'hide' food he doesn't like or want. I find the toast crust shoved in > the corner of his chair at the table - same with the green beans or lima > beans or whatever out of his meals. He'll discreetly 'drop' the stuff he > doesn't like under the table, under his chair or on his chair. I'd try .... 1) Give him a bowl or something for items he picks out. 2) Quit making him eat a certain amount (even if he dished it up), dish up things he doesn't like, etc. 3) See if you can replace the action of throwing it on the floor with taking his whole plate to the sink. That will only work if he's allowed complete control of when he is done. I know not all parents agree with that. If none of that works you can try a couple different things. 1) Get him to clean it up. If this is a huge fight that might be a little draining or difficult with two babies to look after. You'll only have so much time. I know it would be damn near impossible for me to spend 30 minutes trying to get mine to clean something up. He'd be on a massive power trip and could probably last for 2 hours, I'd be popping a vessel, the littles would be fussing and crying, the 8yo wouldn't be doing his thing...total nightmare, lol. 2) Explain that cleaning up the mess is not working for you and he'll have to sit by you throughout his whole meal until he is able to sit without making a mess. Then watch him so he doesn't do it. That means he'll have to wait to start eating until you are ready to sit down and if you have to get up after 15 minutes, then I guess his meal is done too. You'd have to organize yourself to be able to sit for at least 10-15minutes and set it up so you can watch him and the babes (so perhaps he has to sit in a less desirable spot) but the easier part is that you control the time. You are done when *you* say done, not when he relents and does something (like in the above case). He also knows the rules are that > if he serves himself food (and he is definitely at that age where he likes > to serve himself) then he must eat all he takes - he knows to start small [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > then there are no snacks until next meal (although he is more than welcome > to snack on the previous meal he filled up on) You say you are allowing him to stop when he is full, or not eat things he doesn't want etc - but IMO you aren't really doing that. You choose the exceptable amount, not him. If he dishes up more then he wants maybe it would be better to not allow him to dish things up himself next time. That is a privealge for kids that can do it responsibly. I don't think you can win the rule that he eats everything he dishes up because you can't *make* a kid eat. They'll sit there all night, hide food in their pockets, under boosters, in the chair, etc ;) My 6yo regularly wants more then he knows he can eat. One way we drove the point home was with breakfast. He loves pancakes for breakfast and I make them ahead of time and freeze them. I started making only 7 pancakes (one for each day). He always wanted two, but only ever ate one. When he ran out of pancakes because we through them in the sink he realized why it might be wise to start small. He's now obsessed that I might run out of syrup but it did help with the over dishing. He still does it but not nearly as bad. Is there anything like that you might try? Good luck!! SignatureNikki, mama to Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Brock 4/06 Ben 4/06 > Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what to > do with this one, so I'm hoping someone has some ideas! [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Sorry this is so long. Tried to offer as much info as possible! > Any ideas? I wouldn't try to figure out WHY he's doing it (this is just my take!), but I'd sure make him clean up the mess each time. Witht he vacuum or cleaning it up with paper towels. But if he makes the mess, he should clean it up. He's old enough. I would also begin giving him very small portions of whatever you're having. Ridiculously small. If he eats it all and wants more, give him another small portion. In any case, I'd certainly put it on him to clean up after himself. But then, I'm the Mean Mom. :) Julie askmeanmom.com >> Alright, this is driving me absolutely bonkers. I really don't know what >> to [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > Julie > askmeanmom.com If he is 6 one would assume he can say why he is doing what he is doing. You might want to try asking him. |
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