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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / July 2007Good news and a dumb question.
1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. 2. My mom told me she is sending me a Wal-Mart gift card for Bonnie for school cloths. 3. Onto the dumb question. WHAT do you dress kids in these days for school? Is it mostly Jeans? When I was in school I wore dresses almost every day except gym days, unless I forgot to wear pants. At least in lower grades. Was this just because my mom grew up when girls where not allowed to wear pants to school? Not a huge deal or anything but I am stumped. We have quite a few pairs of jeans already for her so I am thinking we need mostly socks, tights, undies, shirts and shoes. Ok everything other then jeans.. lol We have a back pack from a yard sale. LL Bean so it is a nice one. We don't get the supply list until the first week in August and I am really annoyed with what I have seen on the other grades lists. Including Clorox Wipes, baby wipes, AND Sanax Hand Gel. Bonnie better be healthy all year with all that sterilizing. Tori >WHAT do you dress kids in these days for school? Is it mostly Jeans? >When I was in school I wore dresses almost every day except gym days, >unless I forgot to wear pants. At least in lower grades. Was this just >because my mom grew up when girls where not allowed to wear pants to school? Why did you change your mind about hschooling? Last I read anything about it you were hschooling still... Do you ever see other kids your daughter's age? Whatever they wear is what your kid should wear lol And no one wore dresses in school unless they were the wacko-religious types or the Christian/Private school(I went to a Christian school for a few years). I went to school in the 80s-90s. Marie >> WHAT do you dress kids in these days for school? Is it mostly Jeans? >> When I was in school I wore dresses almost every day except gym days, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why did you change your mind about hschooling? Last I read anything > about it you were hschooling still... I was dumb and was talked into sending them to Kindergarten. Was a silly thing to do and I wish I hadn't. > Do you ever see other kids your daughter's age? Mostly at church or other function type things. The other kids I see at their home.. and I wouldn't send kids in public in barn cloths. Whatever they wear is > what your kid should wear lol And no one wore dresses in school unless > they were the wacko-religious types or the Christian/Private school(I > went to a Christian school for a few years). I went to school in the > 80s-90s. > Marie I did not go to a Christian school and my mom wasn't a wacko.. I graduated in 1997. I do not remember what other kids wore but I know every year I got new tights and pretty dresses. I know I had pants as well as I have seen the pictures. Tori >I was dumb and was talked into sending them to Kindergarten. Was a >silly thing to do and I wish I hadn't. Well you can change your mind lol >> Do you ever see other kids your daughter's age? > >Mostly at church or other function type things. The other kids I see at >their home.. and I wouldn't send kids in public in barn cloths. Barn clothes? I don't even know what that is and I LIVE in the country amidst the barns and cows and goats. If you go to walmart or some similar store, and see the t-shirts with all the sayings on them, that's what the girls around here wear, with jeans. I have no clue what brand is THE style these days, my kids just wear whatever brand. My cousin is 14 and in public school and will only wear certain (pricey) brands but I'm not sure what they are. But your daughter is young, so brand name shouldn't matter at her age. What do the kids wear to your church? Do they not wear normal clothes? You don't see kids at the store, or anything? My youngest daughter and my neice are about the same age,(4 and 5 but months apart, the 5 year old starts K next month) they just wear a shorts and shirt that matches. Sometimes it's jean shorts and sometimes cotton. I go to thrift stores and buy alot of pink, orange, and yellow things and it all matches together(those are *her* colors). Marie > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:55:50 -0500, Tori M > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > only wear certain (pricey) brands but I'm not sure what they are. But > your daughter is young, so brand name shouldn't matter at her age. They shouldn't matter at any age, it depends on the values that children are taught. > What do the kids wear to your church? Do they not wear normal clothes? > You don't see kids at the store, or anything? My youngest daughter and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all matches together(those are *her* colors). > Marie > 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Tori I like to dress my kids well, that doesn't mean that I spend a lot of money. First, a winter coat (I can't remember where you live, so I'm nto sure you even need winter things) I like the kind that has the zip out liner ... then you have a jacket, a coat and then a heavy coat. The next is shoes, a pr of sneakers that are NOT white. I also like everything to mix and match, that way my daughters can dress themselves w/o much help. Jeans, cargo pants, and the cargo pants w/ the sip out legs ... they can be worn as shorts and as pants. Several printed T-shirts, a few button down shirts, and one button up sweater and a couple of pull over sweaters. Nothing fancy (I made that mistake when I bought a bunch of skirts). Fancy things just get in the way of art class and sitting on the floor. K's spend a lot of time on the floor. At least 2 pr of mittens that are exactly the same that way if one gets lost, you don't have to run out and buy another pr. A nice warm hat. Lots o' socks! at least in our house ... > I like to dress my kids well, that doesn't mean that I spend a lot of money. > First, a winter coat (I can't remember where you live, so I'm nto sure you > even need winter things) I like the kind that has the zip out liner ... We have 2 winter coats. I will need to buy mittens and gloves this year though. > The next is shoes, a pr of sneakers that are NOT white. > I also like everything to mix and match, that way my daughters can dress > themselves w/o much help. Jeans, cargo pants, and the cargo pants w/ the > sip out legs ... they can be worn as shorts and as pants. That is a good idea thanks. :) > Several printed T-shirts, a few button down shirts, and one button up > sweater and a couple of pull over sweaters. > Nothing fancy (I made that mistake when I bought a bunch of skirts). Fancy > things just get in the way of art class and sitting on the floor. K's spend > a lot of time on the floor. I will keep this in mind.\ Tori > At least 2 pr of mittens that are exactly the same that way if one gets > lost, you don't have to run out and buy another pr. Every time I go to the grocery store or the dollar store I get a couple of pairs of those one-size-fits-all stretchy gloves. On small hands they're acceptably warm because they don't stretch too much, and if they lose one I just throw them another. Of course they're not meant for snowmobiling or long hours making snowballs, but for waiting for the bus and recess, they're fine. They also make a good first layer under a warmer waterproof pair of mittens. It never hurts to go to the Goodwill, Salvation Army, or church rummage sales. You'd be amazed at the stuff some people give away - my mom has made a very lucrative business on ebay selling vintage and designer clothes she finds this way. A lot of is brand new, too >> At least 2 pr of mittens that are exactly the same that way if one gets >> lost, you don't have to run out and buy another pr. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Of course they're not meant for snowmobiling or long hours making > snowballs, but for waiting for the bus and recess, they're fine. I like those too, but we really can't use them here. We get a huge amount of wind off of the lake ... and it gets bitter bitter cold. They also make a good > first layer under a warmer waterproof pair of mittens. That's a good idea. > It never hurts to go to the Goodwill, Salvation Army, or church rummage > sales. You'd be amazed at the stuff some people give away - my mom has > made a very lucrative business on ebay selling vintage and designer > clothes she finds this way. A lot of is brand new, too > 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. great news! :) > 2. My mom told me she is sending me a Wal-Mart gift card > for Bonnie for school cloths. <cough> > 3. Onto the dumb question. the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask... > WHAT do you dress kids in these days for school? Is it > mostly Jeans? When I was in school I wore dresses almost > every day except gym days, unless I forgot to wear pants. > At least in lower grades. Was this just because my mom > grew up when girls where not allowed to wear pants to > school? jeans, maybe, but there are lots of somewhat dressier materials one could wear to school. from what i see at Boo's school, it looks like it's a 60/40 split between dresses & pants in the lower grades. lots of little girls like frilly dresses (or their mothers do anyway). once the girls get to upper el (4th grade & higher) they seem to wear dresses/skirts less frequently. > Not a huge deal or anything but I am stumped. We have > quite a few pairs of jeans already for her so I am thinking > we need mostly socks, tights, undies, shirts and shoes. Ok > everything other then jeans.. lol that sounds about right to me (as long as the school doesn't have a dress code). Boo isn't very sloppy, so i end up needing more clean socks & undies than clothes. if i have 2 dozen sets of socks & undies, i only have to do his laundry every other week (that's during school. during summer he works on digging the pond, so he gets quite dirty and wet & sometimes goes through 2-3 outfits per day). > We have a back pack from a yard sale. LL Bean so it is a > nice one. We don't get the supply list until the first > week in August and I am really annoyed with what I have > seen on the other grades lists. Including Clorox Wipes, > baby wipes, AND Sanax Hand Gel. Bonnie better be healthy > all year with all that sterilizing. if she hasn't been exposed to loads of other kids before, she'll likely get a lot of colds, even with all the sanitizing. however, i don't think i'd give a 5 year old Chlorox wipes... the alcohol based goop can be dangerous for kids that suck on their hands, & Chlorox is less benevolent than alcohol! a couple hints on the supplies: don't give her the whole box of pencils at the beginning of the year. give her 2 or 3 at a time. twistable crayons don't break as easily as regular crayons (but she'll probably ask for markers too). Boo has requested a backpack for this year. he's used the same canvas tote bag since he was 3 & wants a change. i have a whole pile of stuff to send you, i just need to get another box and get to the post office. some will be useful for Bonnie too, i think. lee >> 2. My mom told me she is sending me a Wal-Mart gift card >> for Bonnie for school cloths. > > <cough> Yes I know :P I had actually talked to Jeff about maybe going to a clothing only type store and then my mom said she was sending the gift card for Wal-mart. >> 3. Onto the dumb question. > > the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask... hehehe > jeans, maybe, but there are lots of somewhat dressier > materials one could wear to school. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > once the girls get to upper el (4th grade & higher) they seem > to wear dresses/skirts less frequently. Ok so a Dress for the first day wouldn't be out of the question then. Bonnie likes girly colors like pink and bright yellow and she LOVES to wear sweaters. >> Not a huge deal or anything but I am stumped. We have >> quite a few pairs of jeans already for her so I am thinking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that sounds about right to me (as long as the school doesn't > have a dress code). No real dress code, some what not to wear stuff but I do not think they say what to wear. > if she hasn't been exposed to loads of other kids before, > she'll likely get a lot of colds, even with all the > sanitizing. however, i don't think i'd give a 5 year old > Chlorox wipes... the alcohol based goop can be dangerous for > kids that suck on their hands, & Chlorox is less benevolent > than alcohol! Last night while trying to fall asleep I had mulled over the idea of asking them not to use the goop on Bonnie. I do not really buy into the whole sterilize everything they touch mentality. I know I get sick quite often in the winter and Bonnie has been sick between 1/4-1/2 the amount of times I have been and she usualy gets less sick with it. > a couple hints on the supplies: > don't give her the whole box of pencils at the beginning of > the year. give her 2 or 3 at a time. > twistable crayons don't break as easily as regular crayons > (but she'll probably ask for markers too). The school here insists on name brands and supplies get pooled. They want 2- 16 color boxes of Crayola crayons. At least that seems to be the theme in the other grades. > Boo has requested a backpack for this year. he's used the > same canvas tote bag since he was 3 & wants a change. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for Bonnie too, i think. > lee Thank you :) Tori >No real dress code, some what not to wear stuff but I do not think they >say what to wear Ours had girls wear shorts under dresses because of the PE classes where they need to climb around and stuff. Even in K, that's not a bad idea, imo. Also, don't get dresses that are too long because that hinders play and don't get anything that you don't want them to get dirty. Art in K can be messy and while the kids do wear smocks, they can be expected to get paint on shirt sleeves and pants often. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > Last night while trying to fall asleep I had mulled over the idea of > asking them not to use the goop on Bonnie. I do not really buy into the > whole sterilize everything they touch mentality. I know I get sick > quite often in the winter and Bonnie has been sick between 1/4-1/2 the > amount of times I have been and she usualy gets less sick with it. They aren't asking for that stuff because they're trying to sanitize the world. They're using the hand sanitizer because it often takes too much time to get all the kids to wash their hands on bathroom runs. They use the Clorox wipes to wipe down the tables quickly after messy activities. Baby wipes are used to clean the kids hands (and arms, and faces, and ...) after painting or other messy activities. If they don't have the time, or they don't have enough sinks in the classroom, or whatever, they need *something* just to do *basic* cleaning up. Best wishes, Ericka >> 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > kids that suck on their hands, & Chlorox is less benevolent > than alcohol! Our school asks for Chlorox wipes, the kids don't use them, only the teachers and TA's. > a couple hints on the supplies: > don't give her the whole box of pencils at the beginning of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for Bonnie too, i think. > lee > 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. that is good news :) > 2. My mom told me she is sending me a Wal-Mart gift card for Bonnie for > school cloths. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tori here its school uniform: grey skirt/tousers/pinafore. All where the same coloured polo shirts and same coloured cardigan/sweater. School summer dresses in the summer. Its all very simple :) In Ks next school, tops have to have the school badge. We don't have to supply supplies at all. They take in their book bag, gym kit and painting apron. Packed lunch or dinner money. Can take in a pencil case with a pencil and eraser if they like in Junior school. > We don't have to supply supplies at all. They take in their book bag, > gym kit and painting apron. Packed lunch or dinner money. Can take in a > pencil case with a pencil and eraser if they like in Junior school. I do not remember having to bring much in lower grades BUT the list for 4k is Busy Bugs (4-k) ? 1 full size backpack ? 2 boxes of 16 count Crayola crayons ? 1 change of clothes (pants, shirt, socks & underwear in a Ziplock bag labeled with your childs name. ? 1 box of Kleenex ? 1 plastic folder ? 1 two pocket folder ? 1 box of baby wipes ? 1 disposable camera ? 1 box of quart size Ziplock bags ? 1 box of gallon Ziplock bags ? 1 tri-fold rest mat (full day children only) ? 1 BEACH TOWEL (for snuggling with during quiet time) Blankets are too large for our storage space. ? 1 box of Dixie cups ? 1 roll of paper towels ? 1 container of Clorox Wipes ? 1 bottle of Germ-X ? 1 pair of hard soled slippers to be kept @ school This is a lot of stuff and the first grade stuff is just as bad Tori >> We don't have to supply supplies at all. They take in their book bag, >> gym kit and painting apron. Packed lunch or dinner money. Can take in a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >This is a lot of stuff and the first grade stuff is just as bad >Tori I think most things were supplied back in my day, but my dgd's K supply list is as follows: 1 24-count pkg of crayons (crayola equivalent) 3 16-count pkgs of crayons (crayola equivalent) 2 8-count pkgs of crayons (crayola equivalent) ************ why not just get one big box of 64? This is silly - I would be happy to count them into a baggie or something if they want the kids to have a specific number of crayons to use. This is also cost inefficient for parents, imo. 1 scissors 5" blunt tip (fiskars equivalent) 5 glue sticks .77 oz large (Elmer's equivalent) 3 white school glue - 4 oz (Elmer's equivalent) *************again, not very cost efficient for the glue, I tended to get a large jar of glue and refill the small glue containers from that using a funnel. 1 washable markers - 8-count (Crayola equivalent) 2 pkgs construction paper - assorted colors - 9 by 12 50-count 1 pkg construction paper - assorted colors - 12 by 18 50-count 10 #2 pencils (standard yellow) - I guess you can't get the kids the colors and designs they want) 1 watercolors - 8-count (crayola equivalent) 1 box of facial tissues 100-count (Kleenex equivalent) 1 manila paper 9 by 12 50-count 1 manila paper 12 by 18 50-count 1 spiral notebook wide ruled 70-count 1 dry erase marker chisel tip black (expo equivalent) 1 dry erase marker chisel tip non-black (expo equivalent) 1 green pocket folder with brads 1 red pocket folder 1 blue plastic pocket folder with brads 1 yellow plastic pocket folder with brads 2 8.5 by 11 story tablets (1/2 inch rule, red baseline, dotted midline) 1 plastic schoolbox (8.5 by 5.5 by 2.5) 6 resealable plastic gallon bags (ziplock equivalent) 10 resealable plastic sandwich bags (ziplock equivalent) It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but then that's not the way it's done. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>> We don't have to supply supplies at all. They take in their book bag, >>> gym kit and painting apron. Packed lunch or dinner money. Can take in a [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > The Outer Limits One of the public schools in our area made a supply box and sold it at cost. I'm not sure why, but the Federal government stepped in and made them stop. It's really irritating. First, the school was making NO profit at all and second, you didn't HAVE to buy it, it was a choice. I know a lot of ppl here don't like Wal-Mart, and I don't shop there often, however I do buy my school supplies there. I buy most of our home office supplies there as well. I can buy them there at 80% off during school supply sales. I really can't afford to spend $100 on school/office supplies when I can buy them at WM for $20. >One of the public schools in our area made a supply box and sold it at cost. >I'm not sure why, but the Federal government stepped in and made them stop. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >sales. I really can't afford to spend $100 on school/office supplies when I >can buy them at WM for $20. Our walmart has 1-subject notebook for a dime each, and composition notebooks for 50 cents each, glue sticks and bottles of glue(all elmer's) for a dime each. Also packs of colored pencils and markers(Crayola!) for a quarter each. Let me tell you I go crazy every summer!! And my kids don't even go to school. But we have enough notebooks and glue every year to last us for years LOL And all for just a few dollars. I'm tempted to go buy 100 notebooks- would only have to pay 10 bucks. Marie > >>> We don't have to supply supplies at all. They take in their book bag, > >>> gym kit and painting apron. Packed lunch or dinner money. Can take in a [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > sales. I really can't afford to spend $100 on school/office supplies when I > can buy them at WM for $20. Interesting -- we have a supply box per grade, sold at cost. I can't figure out why the Feds would step in.... Caledonia > Interesting -- we have a supply box per grade, sold at cost. I can't > figure out why the Feds would step in.... > > Caledonia Because very little of our tax dollars actuall go to education. They're pretty much bottom of the list. Most teachers have to buy their own supplies with their own money. The public schools don't supply these things any more. And since US public school teachers barely make more than someone working in the food service industry, they need the parents to step in and help with the supplies. Angela > . >> Interesting -- we have a supply box per grade, sold at >> cost. I can't figure out why the Feds would step in.... > Because very little of our tax dollars actuall go to > education. They're pretty much bottom of the list. Most [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than someone working in the food service industry, they > need the parents to step in and help with the supplies. and how does that explain why the Feds would step in & prevent the school or PTA from selling a supply box? something which has nothing to do with "using tax dollars". also, i really want to know *where* you find food service workers making 30-50k per year... yes, teachers are vastly underpaid for the work they do & the education we demand they aquire, but come on, it's NOT as badly paid as a part-time minimum wage job (or even a full time one. i made a whopping 16k/year in retail management)! again, one (of many) reasons schools don't have enough money are unfunded federal mandates, like NCLB or the task of mainstream educating the severely handicapped. lee >> . >>> Interesting -- we have a supply box per grade, sold at [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > mainstream educating the severely handicapped. > lee I talked about this w/ my MIL (a teacher) last night. Several years ago Ohio declared that the way it funded schools as being unconstitutional. As of yet, no one has come up w/ a better funding plan ... so it the funding is still unconstitutional and probably will be for years to come. So they are extremely picky as to the dollars in vs. dollars out of the public school system. The school system can only accept so many private dollars (they don't count profit, but actual dollars) ... when that limit is met public tax dollars (in grants/loans/etc.) are withheld. I guess when this was attmpted they went over their limit therefore losing major grant money. I know I know ... very stupid reasoning ... but then again, this is Ohio ... Home of the Red Neck Wonders. And since US public school teachers barely make more >> than someone working in the food service industry, they >> need the parents to step in and help with the supplies. > > and how does that explain why the Feds would step in & > prevent the school or PTA from selling a supply box? something > which has nothing to do with "using tax dollars". It doesn't. It wasn't meant to. WRT why the PTA/O doesn't use some of the money from their membership drives and other fund raising to make supply boxes for the kids? Not a clue. Ask them. Not me. > also, i really want to know *where* you find food service > workers making 30-50k per year... Went to Micky D's for lunch today. Sign on the wall offering 30k to 50k for management. Thank you very much. yes, teachers are vastly > underpaid for the work they do & the education we demand they > aquire, but come on, it's NOT as badly paid as a part-time > minimum wage job (or even a full time one. i made a whopping > 16k/year in retail management)! Bully for you. Ask an inner city or very rural school teacher how much they make. Public education is way down on the list when it comes to voting on budget allocations whether its on a local, state or federal level. > again, one (of many) reasons schools don't have enough money > are unfunded federal mandates, like NCLB or the task of > mainstream educating the severely handicapped. > lee Did I say anywhere that I didn't agree? Don't think so. Why does almost every responce from you to me seem to have the tone of "You don't know WTF your talking about."? please note the words almost and seem. not always and does. Angela >> Interesting -- we have a supply box per grade, sold at cost. I can't >> figure out why the Feds would step in.... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Angela Here the teachers are paid very well, but it's not all about the pay ... they also receive AMAZING retirement benefits and other benefits as well. I'm not sure if anyone who works for food service is making 50K a year. Unless they are a chef or upper management. My DH's family is a family of teachers ... I get sick of the whining about pay ..... > It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a > cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but > then that's not the way it's done. My objection to most of the cleaning/storage list is that if it is a NEED it should be part of the school budget. Paper towels and Dixi cups? And my school does not allow for the cheaper items like Rose art Crayons. Tori >> It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a >> cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tori Pretty much anything Rose Art is crap, I know my craft/art supplies. While they cost less at first, they don't last. I do agree that most of this stuff should be included, we shouldn't have to pay extra for basic needs. > Pretty much anything Rose Art is crap, I know my craft/art > supplies. While they cost less at first, they don't last. > I do agree that most of this stuff should be included, we > shouldn't have to pay extra for basic needs. really? i've had great luck with Rose Art, much better than with modern Crayola (i do still have antique Crayola crayons & the difference is noticable). lee >> It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the >> district at a cheaper price in bulk and that parents could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Paper towels and Dixi cups? And my school does not allow > for the cheaper items like Rose art Crayons. you know, i'd go ahead & get the Rose Art crayons and paints. not only are they less expensive, in my experience they are a better product, plus Rose Art has fantastic customer service (i got some of their play clay that was too soft once. instead of just replacing the one bad container they sent me a whole set of 6). i'd get whatever 3oz cups that were on sale & the store brand of hand sanitizer, too. it's bad enough that the schools dictate that the kids bring supplies that used to be supplied by the school, but it's just totally wrong to dictate the *brands* to be purchased. lee <who admits freely to issues with public schools> > you know, i'd go ahead & get the Rose Art crayons and paints. > not only are they less expensive, in my experience they are a > better product, Really? I haven't used a lot of their products, but have encountered the crayons several times and I did not like the crayons *at all*. Also, one of the tricky bits with kindergarten is that they're actually *learning* about the colors. In higher grades, the kids mostly have their own crayons and use them as they please. In kindy, they do a lot of activities where they're all using specific colors to do specific things. At that point, it gets challenging with different brands because the colors aren't the same (not only are the reds different reds, but the 16 crayon box doesn't necessarily have the same 16 colors). And, if all the supplies are going into a communal pool for sharing, it's not at all helpful if some of the crayons are less desirable to the kids than other crayons, because then they argue over who's using what. So, I can understand being particular in kindergarten with shared supplies. I don't think it's as relevant in later grades (and my experience has been that the schools loosen up in higher grades). Best wishes, Ericka > > It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a > > cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tori Out of curiosity, though, who funds the school budget? Here, a lot of cleaning supplies were pushed down to the parents, as the increase in oil and electricity costs were astounding, and the school committee tried to keep the budget (about 15% funded by the state, 85% from local taxes) within their definition of 'reasonable growth' parameters. It's a balance. Many people complain bitterly than our taxes are too high -- but I think they'd be lighting torches and carrying pitchforks if our library had no non-fiction books, let alone wasn't open 6 days a week. Caledonia >>> It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a >>> cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Out of curiosity, though, who funds the school budget? I THINK it is funded through property taxes. BUT if the teacher had to fit the "special" cleaning supplies into her classroom she would find a cheaper way to do it. The next objection is the quantity of what the teachers want. Some classes ask for 2 Family Sized boxes of Tissues, assuming they have 20 kids that would be 40 boxes of tissues for 9 months. Again some classes are asking for 2 packages of Clorox wipes, 2 bottles of hand gel. I am sure at the end of the year they are not going to send back any of that stuff, because how could you fairly? So the next year they only have to send 1 of each because this year they had too many? If they worded it as the items that really are NEEDED are put up top with a note saying boy we could really use these other items if you want to pitch in for the extras. I am sure many people would adore to buy a few refill packs of Clorox wipes, and Mrs. Germphobe would LOVE to just coat the whole class in the gel goop. I personally do not buy into the whole antibacterial everything society we are in. I would prefer that just plain old soap and water was used. I do understand it being more difficult to get some of the cleaning done if they do not have good sinks in each room, but I do feel that they should find the most economical way to do things while accomplishing their goals. Oh and my local library does not have a Non-Fiction section in "house" BUT it is linked up to a network that has TONS of books. I just need to go online and request them. I can ask the librarian to do it as well but why not just do it myself, it isn't that hard and I don't need to go in until it gets there. Also it has hours everyday except Friday with Sat. only being open 2 hours. ALSO in WI you can go to any library in any town and request books. I have cards in 3 towns but I tend to not go to the ones further away. Tori > Oh and my local library does not have a Non-Fiction section in "house" > BUT it is linked up to a network that has TONS of books. I just need to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tori I was wrong. It isn't open Sunday either. I thought it was weird that it would be so I re-read the card and I noticed they didn't mention Sunday. Friday has closed next to it. I do not think I have ever been in a town that The library was open 6 days. Well except maybe Nashua but we went there mainly for internet use when Jeff and I first got married. I live in a town of around 1,000 people I believe. I am just glad we have a library. Not all towns around here do. Some do not even have a real TOWN. We at least have a main st. you can drive your 4 wheeler down it but we have one ;) Tori >> Oh and my local library does not have a Non-Fiction >> section in "house" BUT it is linked up to a network that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to it. I do not think I have ever been in a town that The > library was open 6 days. Well except maybe Nashua Nashua library *isn't* a public library though. it's open to the public, but it's a private holding, run by a board of directors & not funded by the city. the high school in my town is the same sort of arrangement. while it *has* to take high school age students from town, it can pick & choose which other town's students it will admit (and there is a long list of applicants every year, as it's considered the best high school in the state), so there is a very high level of the "best & brightest" attending. the high school gets a very small amount of money from taxes, but not much. certainly no where near as much as our K-8 grade school, which is crap (due pretty much entirely to internal petty politics). lee > > Oh and my local library does not have a Non-Fiction section in "house" > > BUT it is linked up to a network that has TONS of books. I just need to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tori For an 'alternate reality' experience, I don't think I've ever lived in a town here (okay, one had a population around 25,000 yet still maintained town status -- our town has a population of 5,000) that *didn't* have a library open 6 days/week. Wow. Caledonia > For an 'alternate reality' experience, I don't think I've ever lived > in a town here (okay, one had a population around 25,000 yet still > maintained town status -- our town has a population of 5,000) that > *didn't* have a library open 6 days/week. Wow. > > Caledonia I have actually lived in 2 Named areas here that are under 1,000 people population and one had a town hall, the other didn't. My friends husband is the head of his towns council but they don't have a town hall either that I know of. In NH Moultonboro was the same size as Amery WI yet Amery is like big town here. Moultonboro is an itty bitty town in NH. Tori >> Out of curiosity, though, who funds the school budget? > > I THINK it is funded through property taxes. BUT if the teacher had to > fit the "special" cleaning supplies into her classroom she would find a > cheaper way to do it. Teachers don't have any budget authority. > The next objection is the quantity of what the teachers want. Some > classes ask for 2 Family Sized boxes of Tissues, assuming they have 20 > kids that would be 40 boxes of tissues for 9 months. I think it's very likely that these have come about because they've found that's what they need. Either they actually go through that many tissues, or they only get half the families responding and so they have to ask for two boxes to get the 20 they need for the class. > Again some classes > are asking for 2 packages of Clorox wipes, 2 bottles of hand gel. I am > sure at the end of the year they are not going to send back any of that > stuff, because how could you fairly? So the next year they only have to > send 1 of each because this year they had too many? In all likelihood they would adjust, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find that they go through it that quickly. > I personally do not buy into the whole antibacterial everything society > we are in. I would prefer that just plain old soap and water was used. > I do understand it being more difficult to get some of the cleaning done > if they do not have good sinks in each room, but I do feel that they > should find the most economical way to do things while accomplishing > their goals. With what time? They've got their day booked full trying to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. Taking a half hour to send kids to bring in a bucket of soapy water (teacher can't leave the kids alone in the classroom to go get it) and then scrub down the desks after art class just means that all of a sudden, there won't be anything messy in art class (if there's art class at all). What is practical to do at home with a sink and just a few kids isn't so practical to do in a room without a sink and with 20-30 kids, especially when you're on a tight timeline. Best wishes, Ericka > With what time? They've got their day booked full trying > to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > few kids isn't so practical to do in a room without a sink and > with 20-30 kids, especially when you're on a tight timeline. But how hard is it to get a spray bottle and fill it with a little bleach and water, or disinfectant and water and keep it for quick cleans. Pennies on the dollar compared to those wipes. Tori >> With what time? They've got their day booked full trying >> to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tori I wouldn't want airborne bleach in the classroom. Become a class parent ... you will see how quickly these things are used. >>> With what time? They've got their day booked full trying >>> to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I wouldn't want airborne bleach in the classroom. >Become a class parent ... you will see how quickly these things are used. Yep, kids with allergies or breathing issues would prevent me from using bleach water. Nan >>> With what time? They've got their day booked full trying >>> to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I wouldn't want airborne bleach in the classroom. > Become a class parent ... you will see how quickly these things are used. Unfortunately that isn't an option for me. I still do not drive, not that we have 2 cars, and it is too far to walk. Not only that but Xavier is too young to put in Head Start this year so he will be home all day. Tori > >>> With what time? They've got their day booked full trying > >>> to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tori Ah -- if I remember DD1's K well (as DD2 was too young for anything), I'm guessing that there's a world of volunteer 'things that parents at home can do with paper bags' awaiting you. Truly. DD1's school graciously sent her home with 24 brown paper bags too many times (pilgrim hats, book covers, ladybug costumes) that it's all thankfully become a hazy memory. I remember thinking at the time (or as midnight approached) that it *had* to be easier for those parents who could go into the school to volunteer. And then, of course, i went into the school to volunteer, and longed for the paper bag days. But worthwhile all around -- DD1 saw that I was invested in her classroom, even if I was stuck at home, and I never looked at a supermarket bag the same way. Caledonia >> Unfortunately that isn't an option for me. I still do not drive, not >> that we have 2 cars, and it is too far to walk. Not only that but Xavier [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > approached) that it *had* to be easier for those parents who could go > into the school to volunteer. There's also carpooling with other volunteers, babysitters, and looking for volunteer opportunities where you can bring the small fry along. My time available to be in school ebbs and flows, but I generally find that there's a way to be involved if you want to, and it is very beneficial to be involved at least a little bit. Volunteering on field trips is often great for getting to know your child's friends (and then you just have to find a sitter for the day and I'm sure another chaperone could bring you in to school). Even most of the working parents I know find *something* to come in for at least once or twice during the school year, just because it's so very helpful to see the teacher and class in action. I think this is one of those situations where when there's a will, there's a way. Best wishes, Ericka . > > Become a class parent ... you will see how quickly these things are used. > > Unfortunately that isn't an option for me. I still do not drive, Is there bus service at least part way? not > that we have 2 cars, and it is too far to walk. Not only that but Xavier > is too young to put in Head Start this year so he will be home all day. Although I homeschool, I also volunteer in a school classroom. Some years I have brought kids with me. Other years I have had a mother of one of the children in the class watch my kids. --Betsy >> With what time? They've got their day booked full trying >> to cover all the things they're required to cover educationally. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > bleach and water, or disinfectant and water and keep it for quick > cleans. Pennies on the dollar compared to those wipes. Depends on who's doing it. That's what they do in my kids' preschool, but they have a higher teacher-student ratio (more hands to do it) and no state-mandated curriculum (fewer tight deadlines) and they can keep it out of reach of the kids (fewer safety concerns). It could be that such a situation would work in your classrooms, I don't know. I'm just very hesitant to judge teachers before walking in their shoes and understanding where they're coming from with their requests. More often than not, it turns out that what seemed senseless is actually pretty sensible once you know the whole story. Best wishes, Ericka >I THINK it is funded through property taxes. BUT if the teacher had to >fit the "special" cleaning supplies into her classroom she would find a >cheaper way to do it. Our property taxes fund the school.... a whopping $17.81 a year. >The next objection is the quantity of what the teachers want. Some >classes ask for 2 Family Sized boxes of Tissues, assuming they have 20 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >stuff, because how could you fairly? So the next year they only have to >send 1 of each because this year they had too many? You'd be surprised how many boxes of tissues one classroom will go through during a school year. Last year I donated an additional 4 boxes of ziploc bags to E's class, as the teacher needed more but she hated to have to ask parents for more, when she'd already asked for more hand gel and cleaning wipes! >If they worded it as the items that really are NEEDED are put up top >with a note saying boy we could really use these other items if you want [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >should find the most economical way to do things while accomplishing >their goals. You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... then I spent time in the classrooms and got a good smack of reality. The teachers really do need these things. Nan > You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... then I spent > time in the classrooms and got a good smack of reality. The teachers > really do need these things. > > Nan I am probably just angry because I didn't want to be in this spot to begin with. I am trying to let go of it because I do not want to be rude to Bonnie's teacher this year but I really do not feel right in this decision to send her to school. I really see most of it as too expensive and unneeded. Tori >> You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... then I spent >> time in the classrooms and got a good smack of reality. The teachers [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Tori When comparing it to homeschooling, I can see why you feel that way. *hug* Nan >> You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... >> then I spent time in the classrooms and got a good smack [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > send her to school. I really see most of it as too > expensive and unneeded. look at it this way, you can use this to demonstrate how homeschooling will save money ;) lee >>> You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... >>> then I spent time in the classrooms and got a good smack [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > homeschooling will save money ;) > lee Hehehe yup. And how ALL of the money we do spend on it has an obvious educational value ;) Tori >> You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... then I spent >> time in the classrooms and got a good smack of reality. The teachers [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > this decision to send her to school. I really see most of it as too > expensive and unneeded. But the truth is, if you made this decision and follow through on it, then you're only shooting yourself and your daughter in the foot if you have your blood boiling over everything. Your daughter's love of learning will be ruined faster by that than by anything else. If you can't live with this decision, then back out. If you go forward with it, go with a positive attitude and a cooperative spirit and be open to the possibility that the teacher actually knows what she's doing and will be a wonderful, positive influence in your daughter's life educationally and otherwise. No school or teacher is perfect, but many of them are quite good and children often adore them. Don't take that away from your daughter before she even starts. Education doesn't have to be exactly the way you'd do it to be good. Best wishes, Ericka >>> You know Tori, I had some of the same gripes as you.... then I spent >>> time in the classrooms and got a good smack of reality. The teachers [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > daughter before she even starts. Education doesn't have to > be exactly the way you'd do it to be good. I know this. I was really feeling bad today. I have been in such a crabby mood lately that I could pick a fight over just about any topic. I will do a separate update post but just know I am generally not this disagreeable. Tori >>> I am probably just angry because I didn't want to be in this spot to >>> begin with. I am trying to let go of it because I do not want to be [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I will do a separate update post but just know I am generally not this > disagreeable. I know you're not ;-) I just also know that you're not totally behind this decision and that it isn't easy to be open under those circumstances...and that kids can really sense that sort of conflict. It's hard for me not to let some things that annoy me about schools cause me to send the wrong message to my kids. Things are never completely black and white. I may not agree with a particular homework assignment, but I do think it's important to make good on your commitments and have a good work ethic, and I certainly have had it up to *here* with folks who think they only have to do what they like or agree with. So, I have to be careful how I deal with my own feelings about details because they color my children's experiences. Also, I think if you are going forward with this, it's easier on *you* if you try to have a positive attitude. Maybe you have a bad school or teacher, but many of them *are* good and have reasons for doing what they do, even if they're not quite apparent to you from the start. Just like having siblings means that a child's world is no longer going to be optimized for his or her individual needs, going to school does the same for education. Still, the sibling has some advantages, and so does a classroom. For any particular combination of student, classmates, teacher, and school, maybe it's a net gain or maybe it's a net loss, but there are benefits as well as liabilities. Once you've decided to have another baby, you might as well hope for the net positive outcome, and if you've decided she's going to kindergarten, you might as well hope for the same in this situation. Best wishes, Ericka > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:04:45 -0500, Tori M > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Our property taxes fund the school.... a whopping $17.81 a year. Wow. Big wow. How are your schools funded? Caledonia >> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:04:45 -0500, Tori M >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Caledonia Well, that is the figure for our property, I should have mentioned that. And the breakdown of taxes dispersed does show the school as getting the biggest chunk.... but that said, our schools rely HEAVILY on one fundraiser the students do, and there are programs for the schools such as Boxtops for Education and stores donate a portion of your shopping receipts.... but that's not enough, obviously. Parental donations of either $$ or items is valued immensely. Nan >> It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by >> the district at a cheaper price in bulk and that parents [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > towels and Dixi cups? And my school does not > allow for the cheaper items like Rose art Crayons. Please volunteer within the classroom as the room parent and start participating in your school's PTO/HSC-SSC (Home&SchoolClub-SchoolSiteCouncil) before making such grand, uninformed statements. You will immediate grasp what everyone is gently trying to tell you: You're observations (from very much afar) are off. The biggest reason for not requesting a year's worth of supplies (that are not covered in the school's allocation of SIP funds) is storage of those supplies. Do you want the classroom to look like a warehouse for soap, Kleenex(tm), and wipes? Every classroom I've been in storage is always at a premium, especially if the teacher has been doing his or her job for several years. Closets and file cabinets are stuffed with projects and examples, lessons and books, so there is none left. During cold and flu season, it's not unusual to go through ten or twelve boxes of Kleenex(tm), two packages of 500-ct wipes, and a gallon of anti-bacteria soap a week. Volunteer and follow the money. The Ranger > > It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a > > cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but > > then that's not the way it's done. > > My objection to most of the cleaning/storage list is that if it is a > NEED it should be part of the school budget. I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly, its not. The choice therefore becomes putting it on the parents or putting it on the teachers. BTW, you might want to ask if the teacher meant to require brand names, or if it was used to easily describe things. Paper towels and Dixi > cups? And my school does not allow for the cheaper items like Rose art > Crayons. I hate Rose Art crayons -- the ones that One had made a barely-visible waxy streak on paper. In any event, check for sales. Staples usually puts crayola crayons on sale for 10 cents to 25 cents a box in August. In fact, check for all of your basics there -- kids' scissors (2 for 50 cents), pencils (under $1 for 100, IIRC), etc. I'm sure that Walmart and Target run similar sales, but Staples is closest for me. As to your clothing question, can you hold off on purchases until after she's settled into school a bit? Then you can see what the other kids wear, and she can let you know what makes her comfortable. Barbara > Tori >>> It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a >>> cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > might want to ask if the teacher meant to require brand names, or if > it was used to easily describe things. I am sure once I meet the teacher next month when she does her home visit I will be fine. > Paper towels and Dixi >> cups? And my school does not allow for the cheaper items like Rose art [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (under $1 for 100, IIRC), etc. I'm sure that Walmart and Target run > similar sales, but Staples is closest for me. We are going to have to decide if we are going to go to MN for school supplies at a cheaper rate but higher taxes or buy them in WI for more money but less tax. WI has a law about how much profit HAS to make. > As to your clothing question, can you hold off on purchases until > after she's settled into school a bit? Then you can see what the > other kids wear, and she can let you know what makes her comfortable. I had thought about that but Jeff and I are better with getting things as we have the money for it. We SHOULD have enough the 2nd or 3rd week in August for everything.. In general I know she likes to wear Tee Shirts with sweaters and jeans. I am guessing unless it is unusually warm in the classroom she will want a sweater most days in the winter. If she dresses herself it is usually into a hoodie shirt and jeans on cool days. Warm days could be a dress or a pair of shorts. Tori Tori > 1 24-count pkg of crayons (crayola equivalent) > 3 16-count pkgs of crayons (crayola equivalent) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > want the kids to have a specific number of crayons to use. This > is also cost inefficient for parents, imo. I don't think it's the *number* of crayons, but the specific colors. What they're wanting is 6 red crayons (because they'll use those a lot) and maybe only 4 red-orange crayons, and just 1 of whatever fancier color shows up in the 24 count box. In kindy, they're working on learning colors, so they'll do activities that involve using a specific color crayon for specific tasks. > It seems to me that most of this could be ordered by the district at a > cheaper price in bulk and that parents could pay a supply fee, but > then that's not the way it's done. I agree. This is one area where a PTA can be helpful. If the PTA gets organized, they can buy in bulk and put together classroom packs and have them there the first day of school for a more reasonable fee. It's a big-ish job, though, so there has to be a volunteer ready to do it. Best wishes, Ericka > In kindy, they're working on learning colors, so they'll >do activities that involve using a specific color crayon for >specific tasks. My dgd has known her colors since she was 2 and preschool takes care of learning colors. If they want specific colors, it is still cheaper to buy in bulk and parcel them out, imo. I know there are children who are behind, but I guess I will find out this year how many kids don't know their colors when they enter K. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >> In kindy, they're working on learning colors, so they'll >> do activities that involve using a specific color crayon for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > takes care of learning colors. If they want specific colors, it is > still cheaper to buy in bulk and parcel them out, imo. I agree with buying in bulk. Someone just asked why specify a brand and why not buy one box of 64 instead of 2 boxes of 8, 3 of 16, and 1 of 24 crayons (or whatever it was). It would be much more efficient to buy in bulk and have the parents pay a supplies fee, at least in the early years. > I know there > are children who are behind, but I guess I will find out this year how > many kids don't know their colors when they enter K. Most, if not all, will know their colors, I would expect. Best wishes, Ericka > 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. YAY!! :)  SignatureRebecca Jo Mama to Alexander 6/6/05 & Jack 7/7/07 > 1. Jeff got hired back to work today. WOOOHOO. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > because my mom grew up when girls where not allowed to wear pants to > school? Probably. I'd ask at the school, because things can vary widely. At my kids' school, jeans would be fine. Best wishes, Ericka > Not a huge deal or anything but I am stumped. We have quite a few pairs > of jeans already for her so I am thinking we need mostly socks, tights, > undies, shirts and shoes. Ok everything other then jeans.. lol > Tori Lots of schools around here don't allow the little girls to wear dresses or skirts unless they are like a skort -- shorts (rather than just panties) underneath. Check if there are skirt rules before buying them. Signature-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ http://jamlady.eboard.com http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor |
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