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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / May 2008Differences between Spam and On-Topic mom/kids Info
On May 8, 1:41 pm, "dejablues" <dejabl...@comcast.net> wrote: > "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> > > Stop spamming, Ed. It is wrong. I do not admit that mentioning BREASTPUMPS or posting LINKS to breastpump sites is OFF-TOPIC, much less "SPAM" for a group like "alt.mothers", not when you consider the JUNK that's posted here that NOBODY complains about, I am feeling singled-out for abuse, as an unwanted outsider with a perceived agenda to promote a certain kind of care and attention for babies -- as seen when my FIRST posts here about subjects such as prolonged breastfeeding, and whether parents are wise to put their little kids in a lonely little room down the hall rather than show them lots of love and continuing mother-baby intimacy... OH! You HATED those ideas! Or, JAMIE Clark did, at least! Her latest thoughts on this matter that I saw were "f**k off, Ed!" quote / unquote. So, after being perceived as not being quite politically correct, besides being a man.. when I added the link to the breastpump site, you have all gone ballistic! Now, MIND YOU, this is DESPITE the fact that unless you heavily filter what you see in this and the other moms & kids groups, there is an overwhelming amount of textual litter there, ranging from luggage, Viagra, Vioxx, Levitra, accessories, travel to God Knows Where & back... and It seems to me this is, at heart, not a battle over SPAM at all, except in the sense that you are putting a SPAM label on someone who's views about childraising are different from yours, which to me sounds like --- "Okay, I can't argue this guy about ISSUES, so let's use technicalities to get him off the air!" No, this is a battle at least between cliques and maybe between cultures. You are evidently in the "denying-intimacy-and-breastfeeding-with-baby- so-Mom-won't-be-hassled" culture. The culture I am representing is the OPPOSITE culture. It is the: "Look at these results! These brilliant and creative children! when you breastfeed them for a longer period of time!" THAT is what I came in on, and I stick by it, and NOBODY has given me a SHRED of personal evidence in this group that would counter the anecdotal evidence of the 5 kids I mentioned who were exceptionally talented and successful after being breastfed for 2+ years. What I HAVE gotten from several of you loud pontificators is stuff like "you are not being sensitive to the feelings of we, the readers of this newsgroup! This is a very delicate subject. How dare you 'get in the faces' of these mothers and caregivers who feel differently about this subject?" I would interpret THAT as GUILT. These mothers and caregivers don't wish to be reminded that their reaction to having a baby was to want to get the baby out of their way. Their desire was to NOT nurse the baby, to give it formula instead, to "FERBERIZE" it, (you can look up that term if you don't understand it), to put the baby in a room across the hall or down the hall where its screams won't be that noticeable. The merest mention that perhaps it would be more compassionate and caring to raise the child with more intimacy and with breastfeeding led to this recent torrent of criticism about the "links" on my messages, etc. , leading to commercial sites! HOW HYPOCRITICAL. You can't win on the issues, you prefer not to THINK about the issues, so you decide I'm a SPAMMER! Instead of responding "ON TOPIC" about the proper care of children, the litany of complaints and jingo-ist statements by your "panel of experts" makes ME feel like I'm in front of a Sandinista or Pol Pot jury ready to shoot first and ask questions later. That's because I'm perceived as a man, and therefore an outsider, and moreover, not politically correct. It is not politically correct, I see, to the most vocal members of this group, who PRETEND this PUBLIC, UN- MODERATED group is "THEIRS", to love and nurture your child to the utmost, and to wish to share the information with others about successful strategies that have actually worked.. All the responses to me and to my friend Suzanne bear this out! By the way. MARKETING is, in this case, the introduction of ON-TOPIC INFORMATION of a potentially valuable new product or service to someone who without said marketing, would not know the product exists. VersaPed and http://www.breast-pumps.net are in the minority to the existing and highly successful breastpump manufacturers. This is a case of David going up against Goliath! "David" is struggling for breath, struggling to make a FEW sales of what is a GREAT, but comparatively UNKNOWN product! Spreading around the information about the advantages of this product will help a mother raise her 3 children as it also provides a breastpump system which is low-cost and adaptable to other systems already in use. This breastpump which Suzanne invented and patented was intended, from inception, since it was developed by a beastfeeding mother of 3, to simplify life and minimize expenses for mothers. You are mixing-up the introduction of a basic product which is useful for many readers of THIS NEWSGROUP, with SPAMMING. Think about what you are saying. THINK about the fact that this product represents an advance in its field, and that new mothers, caretakers, doulas, midwives, and clinicians ought to have this information available to them -- and where better than in THESE particular mother & baby-related newsgroups? Best Wishes, -------Ed http://www.breast-pumps.net ::stuff:: So you whine about being 'abused' and 'singled out', but now you cross-post massively, as well as repeating your *commercial* stuff. Begone. Jerk. Banty > In article <e0560f58-eafc-43fb-b67a-e09cfa66e...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, > Ed Augusts says... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Banty I'm not whining, YOU'RE one of the ones who's WHINING, Banty, and sounding quite a bit less than a scholarly professional as you're doing it! You and the others STILL haven't fathomed the dimensions of the on- going rift between TRULY NURTURING PARENTHOOD versus LESS-CARING childcare methodologies at the heart of this schism. I guess you people who are protesting against my ON-TOPIC breastpump and related posts are all in the LESS-CARING category., you'd evidently rather see the kid porn ads that pop up on these groups, it seems, since I don't see anyone of you protesting against them! It's a shame that you people seem incapable of holding a debate, and revert to name calling and flatulent knee-jerk responses. Can I get a THOUGHTFUL response, on the issues, from ONE PERSON in your clique, please? Why don't you start your OWN group, and make it a MODERATED group so that nobody can post a blasted thing that you don't 100% approve of! Call it something all of your clique will agree upon, such as: The "Don't Breastfeed, Don't Warmly Nurture for a Prolonged Time, Lock the Kid in a Dark Room & Let the Little Bastard Suffer." Group. THERE! That ought to satisfy the bunch o' ya! ----e.a. http://www.breast-pumps.net >> In article <e0560f58-eafc-43fb-b67a-e09cfa66e...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, >> >> So you whine about being 'abused' and 'singled out', but now you cross-post >> massively, as well as repeating your *commercial* stuff. >> >> Begone. Jerk. There is a moderated group already. >You and the others STILL haven't fathomed the dimensions of the on- >going rift between TRULY NURTURING PARENTHOOD versus LESS-CARING >childcare methodologies at the heart of this schism. I guess you >people who are protesting against my ON-TOPIC breastpump and related >posts are all in the LESS-CARING category., you'd evidently rather see How can you possibly think that calling all who disagree with you "less-caring" will sell your product? FWIW, I breastfed all my four children for between 8 months and 3.5 years and NEVER used a breast pump because I didn't have to. I regard using a breast pump as an inferior alternative that is forced on working mothers. deleted groups I don't read >>> In article <e0560f58-eafc-43fb-b67a-e09cfa66e...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >using a breast pump as an inferior alternative that is forced on >working mothers. I breastfed mine for between 12 months and 2.5 years and also never used a breastpump. My ds never did take a bottle at all and at 12 months weaned to the cup. My dd took a bottle for juice once in a while, but also was weaned directly to a cup. I feel lucky that I did not go back to work until my children were older.  SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> > There is a moderated group already. There IS a moderated group? Cool, Rosalie! That would be THE PLACE for anyone who feels a discussion of breastpumps is off-topic for groups like 'misc.kids.breastfeeding' and 'misc.kids.pregnancy' to go hang out! They will not have to feel the disgust and shame of posting and reading an unmoderated USENET group that features quite a bit of truly disgusting SPAM, posted by people who have the mentality of posting porn to sites intended for discussions of interest to breastfeeding or pregnant moms... spam you all have evidently given up trying to kill. You can't kill that EVIL spam, so you try to kill ON-TOPIC messages with a hint of commercialism instead! Shame, shame! ...wait! there's more... >> You and the others STILL haven't fathomed the dimensions of the on- >> going rift between TRULY NURTURING PARENTHOOD versus LESS-CARING [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > using a breast pump as an inferior alternative that is forced on > working mothers. You breastfed all your four children from between 8 months and 3.5 years... Cool! Congratulations on the four kids! You are SURE to have exceptional children! I bet they're quite talented -- aren't they? I posed comments about the superior achievements of children breastfed for a lengthy period of time, and hardly anyone could mount an argument against what I'd said, and you are confirming it, as well, because I'm sure your children show a lot of talent and kindness. Having four children rather closely spaced, and nursing several of those children in the same time period, would just about guarantee you'd seldom if ever need a BREASTPUMP, that's for sure! But there are other moms who are breastfeeding one child at a time, and in some situations, the baby can't nurse, (as doctors going to Ghana and taking breastpumps to mothers of children with cleft palate recently told us), and in many cases, it becomes a necessary survival tool! But, of course! Every mother is different, and what is a tool for survival for one mother is an unnecessary and unimportant intrusion for another.. like some of you ladies who don't see the need! Regards, ----Ed http://www.breast-pumps.net http://www.get-rich-buying-at-yard-sales.com >> In article <e0560f58-eafc-43fb-b67a-e09cfa66e...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.= >com>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >going rift between TRULY NURTURING PARENTHOOD versus LESS-CARING >childcare methodologies at the heart of this schism. LOL. And the $$$ you could be making have nothing to do with this.... Ah, the power of rationalization. GO AWAY. Banty Ed Augusts schrieb: > I do not admit that mentioning BREASTPUMPS or posting LINKS to > breastpump sites is OFF-TOPIC, much less "SPAM" for a group like [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > technicalities to get him off the air!" No, this is a battle at > least between cliques and maybe between cultures. You seen, we'll keep explaining this until you get it I guess: We don't hate you, we just don't like being treated like idiots. You take quotes out of context, you make false claims and now you cross post to multiple groups just to "prove your point" that we're dumb and need, what actually? You? Your weird pump? You first started posting your advertisements in m.k.p. as far as I remember and then you suddenly started a thread about babies you thought where abused because they were not breastfed and were put to sleep in another room *gasp* Oh my god, what is the world coming to! Clearly you have never seen true abuse because just because a mother doesn't choose to do it "your way" it's not automatically wrong. Also, as an aside I guess, I'd like to point out that it's very hard to sell something to people you belittle and anger. You might want to find a different venue for your advertisement because you're not going to sell any of your pump near us. > You are evidently in the "denying-intimacy-and-breastfeeding-with-baby- > so-Mom-won't-be-hassled" culture. The culture I am representing is > the OPPOSITE culture. It is the: "Look at these results! These > brilliant and creative children! when you breastfeed them for a > longer period of time!" THAT is what I came in on, and I stick by it, OMG! What have I done wrong? I breastfed my son for over 4 years and his IQ is not incredibly high, it's within normal range! I am a failure! waily waily waily... Seriously, go away. I'm scared of catching teh dumb off of you... cu nicole >> "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > breastpump sites is OFF-TOPIC, much less "SPAM" for a group like > "alt.mothers", Well, you're just plain wrong about that. If you look at the blue sky and say it's green, that doesn't make it so. Trying to sell something on usenet is spamming. >>> "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >If you look at the blue sky and say it's green, that doesn't make it so. >Trying to sell something on usenet is spamming. Actually, it's not. There is an official definition of spamming as to x many substantially the same posts are posted to y many newsgroups in z amount of time. X being a lot more than a few. HOWEVER, it is commercial advertising, which is against the misc.kids charter and is very rude and irritating. And *not* "on topic" in a discussion group like this. So it needs to go away. Banty Okay Ed, I'm going to type very slowly and use small words and short sentances. Follow along. Mentioning breastpumps in a post is not off-topic, nor is pointing out useful products. But, mentioning breastpumps to sell your breastpump product is not cool. It's advertising. Posting a link to a "breastfeeding website" that actually ends up being your products website is advertising. Your very first posts to this group were advertising. In your first one on April 6th you talked about Suzanne and her "invention." Total sales pitch, including website link. We ignored you. Your second post on April 9th, you mused about the power going out while trying to pump, and again, it was total sales pitch, including website link. Again, we ignored you. Your third post, several hours later on April 9th, you talked about "preparing for lactation." Again, total sales pitch, including website link. It was at this point that people started responding to you negatively. Yes, you were advertising a breastpump, and yes, you mentioned breastfeeding, and motherhood, etc. But it's still advertising. There is a big difference between posting and/or joining a conversation about breastfeeding or breastpumps, and shilling your product. "But what about all the Viagra ads" you keep saying. And we keep telling you, we are singling you out because you are a real live human being. Because we have explained the rules of Usenet to you, and you keep blatently disregarding them. On April 21st you surface again, this time by posting an opinion relevant to the group. Not agreed with by many, but at least it was on topic. You included the website in your signature line, which was okay, because you didn't actually mention the product in your post. BUT, because you had already aggressively advertised to us just a week or two before, your post was met with more hostility than normal, even for this group. And not because you are a man, but for 2 main reasons -- 1. that we all felt that it was a very thinly and very poorly attempt to continue advertising to us when we had already told you that advertising was not allowed, and 2. you are not capable of making your point clearly without insulting people. You clearly don't seem to get the point that no one really has a problem with you being a proponent of breastfeeding, and even prolonged breastfeeding. I think most people in this group are proponents of breastfeeding. But your contention that you either breastfeed or neglect your child in another room is preposterous. What about people who breastfeed exclusively and yet still have their child sleep in their own room? What about all the people who bottle feed but co-sleep until the child is in kindergarden? It is possible, people do it all the time. But in your world, there are only two options, you either breastfeed, or you neglect your screaming child down the hall. There are all sorts of variations, Ed, and much of our wrath comes from your single minded assertion that it's your way or the highway. It has nothing to do with politcally correct. It has to do with common discourse and conversation. It doesn't matter how useful or helpful your product might be, you cannot advertise it here. You can be a part of the group and have the website link in your signature line, but you can't just sit around and post advertising copy to this group. And yet, that's what you've done, and continue to do. Creating a nice "backstory" that is relevant to the group does not change the fact that it's advertising. While you have stories of 5 (wow, 5? That's a lot. NOT) children who seem very well adjusted, bright and creative, doesn't actually prove your theory at all. I can look around my neighborhood and describe more than 20 children between the ages of 0-6 years old who are extremely bright, well mannered, well adjusted, happy and creative. Some were bottle fed formula, some were breastfed. Some were breastfed for a few weeks, some a few months, and some a few years. Some slept in the family bed, some slept in a cot in their parents room until 1 year, some slept in their own room at 6 weeks. And yet I make no bogus claims that their "brilliance" is due to how they were fed. It's more likely a socio-economicthing. We live in a pretty nice neighborhood with a lot of stay-at-home moms. But you know what? I'd never sit here and say that UNLESS you live in a nice neighborhood, and UNLESS you stay at home with your child, your child will be less intelligent, less creative, less well adjusted, less happy and content. Why wouldn't I say those things? Because I'm not an idiot. It doesn't matter how many times you claim that because the item you are selling is relevant to this group that it doesn't count as advertising, it still is advertising. It doesn't matter how many times you try to point out all the other spammers on this group, what you are doing is no better. There pretty much isn't anything you can say that will get us to change our minds about you. You are trying to sell your product, and we aren't buying. In fact, word of mouth is way more powerful than advertising -- and negative word of mouth goes a long way. So go ahead, Ed and Suzanne. Hang out here, keep talking about your pump, keep telling us that you are just trying to help us, and see how well that works for ya. Or, better yet, just go away. Advertisers are not welcome here. SignatureJamie Clark > On May 8, 1:41 pm, "dejablues" <dejabl...@comcast.net> wrote: >> "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > Best Wishes, -------Ed > http://www.breast-pumps.net >Now, MIND YOU, >this is DESPITE the fact that unless you heavily filter what you see >in this and the other moms & kids groups, there is an overwhelming >amount of textual litter there, ranging from luggage, Viagra, Vioxx, >Levitra, accessories, travel to God Knows Where & back.. There is no point in complaining about auto generated spam. We filter it or report it. Since you are posting through google groups (this is NOT a google group, btw, but a usenet group that existed long before google was around), you haven't got decent filters. Since you are not *autogenerated,* we can point out to you that you are spamming. Advertising a product here is simply not a good idea. You will not get many takers and you may make potential customers angry. If you want to discuss parenting issues, then certainly, you can put a url in your signature and people *may* check it out if they are looking for a product that fits into what you are selling. Discussing the advantages and disadvantages of breast pumps really cannot be done objectively by someone who is touting a particular brand and people here are knowledgeable enough to know that too. SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > Discussing the advantages and disadvantages of breast pumps really > cannot be done objectively by someone who is touting a particular > brand and people here are knowledgeable enough to know that too. This is in fact not true. When what the industry offers breastfeeding mothers has a serious gap in it, there are many mothers out there who are driven to invent something better themselves. FWIW, If you trace back through Ed's posts, you'll find that in most of them, he stood to gain *nothing* from mentioning the product I offer. He just liked the product and said so. When I realized the volume he was posting, and the interest he's been taking in the discussions here, I was the one who insisted on creating an affiliate link for him. But for weeks he was doing what he was doing simply because he believed in the product and believes in motherhood and apple pie and all that, and truly believed some of the readers here would appreciate an innovation. I have in fact, seen an increase in hits from overseas directly traced to what he's been saying, so there ARE mothers who are interested. I have to tell you, when I find a great product for mothers online, I often write to the inventor and congratulate and praise her or him on a good idea. For example, here are two I am NOT affiliated with in any way: http://www.moboleez.com/ http://www.mytinyhands.com/ I dare you to not like them! And I'll bet I'm not the only mom reading here who has great ideas. There are resources for just such mothers: http://mominventors.com/ whose slogan is: "Moms Helping Moms" For Pete's sake, loosen up, ladies. Tight sphincters make for miserable childbirths. SignatureSuzanne. === My fun corner of the world :-) http://www.SuzCorner.com > This is in fact not true. When what the industry offers breastfeeding > mothers has a serious gap in it, there are many mothers out there who > are driven to invent something better themselves. Wow, you are amazingly thick-skulled. Turning a discussion of how we don't want to read your spam into yet another post of spam is going to already aggravate a bunch of already aggravated group of people. Your already poor marketing skills is failing a very important test: know your audience. Usenet is filled with the most hardcore, oldschool people on the net. We predate the Web. We don't predate BBSs, but some of us used (or still use) them. We wrote the book on netiquette. We are not fluffy, pink butterflies in our email and songs on our websites types. We're utilitarian, dinosaur, this is the way we have had it, this is the way we want it types. What people call "flamewars" on these namby-pamby overly moderated web boards make hardened Usenet veterans smirk and not even break a sweat. Don't come into OUR space and tell us how to run things. Don't tell US you don't like our attitude, you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. There is a commercial group for the misc.kids set of groups. Get your a.s over there and sell your crap, join in the discussion here like a proper newsgroup denizen, and all will be well. Or, you can choose to stfu and go away, and again, all will be well. Or, you can keep waving your "but I'm the SAAAAVIOR OF YOOOOUUU" flag trying to shove your product down our throats, alienate your entire audience, telling us to loosen up (there's a good sales tactic) and earn what all Usenet trolls earn....the deafening silence of the mass *PLONK*. That means that quite soon, if it hasn't started already, the two of you will find yourselves killfiled by the majority of the persons you are supposedly attempting to "help". By which you mean 'sell lots of stuff to so we can make money'. So you understand this, I'll use some small words for you. This means that everything you post will either be marked as read or simply deleted by everyone who killfiles you. You will be effectively removed from our newgroup(s) by your own choice. So do, keep it up. Keep violating our space, our charter, and our standards of behavior. See how many sales it earns you. *completely out of patience with this bullshit* Michelle Flutist >Don't come into OUR space and tell us how to run things. Don't tell US >you don't like our attitude, you invaded our house, we didn't invade [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >shove your product down our throats, alienate your entire audience, >telling us to loosen up (there's a good sales tactic) LOL! Yeah, the sphincter thing came right out of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" to be sure. Banty > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on Usenet since the mid-80's, probably before you were born. And I know what goes and what doesn't go. Usenet was developed at taxpayer expense and neither you nor anyone else here "owns" it. You wanna own something, go pay for hosting, start yourself a blog, and own your own space. But on Usenet, you can't just wish people and their relevant posts away just because you personally don't them. That's all that's really going on here. So get over yourself. S. Signature=== Visit my fun corner of the world :-) http://www.SuzCorner.com >> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > > You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on > Usenet since the mid-80's, probably before you were born. A. Do us the favor of not acting like an idiot newbie then, if that's the case. B. The tactic of putting down someone's age as a way to score points is always hilarious when you're terribly wrong. Michelle Flutist >>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Michelle > Flutist Aw, come on, Michelle. I was at your 21st birthday party last week with the unicorn/rainbow theme. : ) SignatureJamie Clark www.ClarkDigitalArts.com Jamie Clark schrieb: >>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Aw, come on, Michelle. I was at your 21st birthday party last week with the > unicorn/rainbow theme. : ) And I thought it was BarbiePrincess... Dang! cu nicole >> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >That's all that's really going on here. If you're so all-fired experienced, how do you come not to know that commercial posts have *never* been welcomed in these groups, or not know about the offshore robo-generated spam and why you see it?? >So get over yourself. LOL! "Get over yourself" - this is like, junior high or something? Banty >> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > > You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on > Usenet since the mid-80's, And more than 20 years later you /still/ don't get it? Wow. I mean: wow. SignatureMo > > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So get over yourself. /me pulls up chair and prepares to offer everyone popcorn for the show. >>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > /me pulls up chair and prepares to offer everyone popcorn for the > show. <roars> I am SO glad you are back ROTFL. (Just finished writing my latest letter to OU... So if they want before tomorrow, sending it at one minute to midnight is making good time, right LOL?) SignatureMo >>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > /me pulls up chair and prepares to offer everyone popcorn for the show. And tam tams? I've got some marmite crisps, anyone want some? SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three >>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I've got some marmite crisps, anyone want some? DAMN TIM TAMS!! > >>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > >>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > DAMN TIM TAMS!! /me remembers to add tim tams to list of things to introduce to travian team he he he he >>>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >DAMN TIM TAMS!! Hahahaaaaa!!!! I just knew someone would pull out the Tim Tam factor ;-) Nan >>>>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>>>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >;-) >Nan Tim tams are OFF TOPIC!!! Sez me :) >>>>>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>>>>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Sez me :) Just taste the lovely deliciousness of one.... you'll not regret it <G> Nan > >>>>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > >>>>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Sez me :) > \ then hand them over and no one will get hurt! >> >>>>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >> >>>>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> \ >then hand them over and no one will get hurt! ..they...they...do you mean to say... Tim Tams SHOOT?? Banty schrieb: >>> Tim tams are OFF TOPIC!!! >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ..they...they...do you mean to say... Tim Tams SHOOT?? Maybe they're the Chili kind and bite back? Btw: is this just a german trend or is this happening all over the world: Chili Chocolate and similar hot/spicy chocolate combinations... Usually marketed as Maya/traditional/south american themed chocolates. I usually don't see the point. I want sweet chocolate, not something that makes me want to gulp down water or eat bread/rice to stop the burning. cu nicole - yes, it's late here and I should be sleeping but I'm not. [snip] > Btw: is this just a german trend or is this happening all over the > world: Chili Chocolate and similar hot/spicy chocolate combinations... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cu > nicole - yes, it's late here and I should be sleeping but I'm not. I've seen it in the UK. One of my friends would always add chocolate to chili con carne. SignaturePenny Gaines UK mum to three > Banty schrieb: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I usually don't see the point. I want sweet chocolate, not something that > makes me want to gulp down water or eat bread/rice to stop the burning. Chocolate is a complex flavor that blends with a lot of different things. I like chocolate, but I don't like sweet foods, so a chocolate that has a higher percentage of cacao appeals to me. dejablues schrieb: >> Banty schrieb: >>>>> Tim tams are OFF TOPIC!!! [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > like chocolate, but I don't like sweet foods, so a chocolate that has a > higher percentage of cacao appeals to me. Yes, but I still consider that "sweet chocolate". I just don't like chocolate that makes my eyes water ;-) cu nicole Penny Gaines schrieb: >>>> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>> You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I've got some marmite crisps, anyone want some? I have Belgian Chocolates and homeade icecream.... Not really for me, just to improve the quality of the breastmilk, of course ;-) cu nicole >> > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >/me pulls up chair and prepares to offer everyone popcorn for the show. I think they have descended from spamming into trolling ;) SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>> > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I think they have descended from spamming into trolling ;) So they're spolling? Tramming? Tim tamming? >>>> > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >So they're spolling? Tramming? Tim tamming? LOL SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>>> > you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >LOL Tim, tams.. Trolls and Spam. ..that's gotta be the beginning of some pretty good doggerel.. Banty >> you invaded our house, we didn't invade your's. > > You are seriously mistaken, Michelle. I've been coming and going on > Usenet since the mid-80's, probably before you were born. And I know what > goes and what doesn't go. Well then you'd think you'd be smart enough to know that advertising is not allowed. > Usenet was developed at taxpayer expense and neither you nor anyone else > here "owns" it. Ownership in the sense that it's our group because we are regulars here. When was the last time you posted here, before April 24th, 2008? This is more "our" group then yours, because a group is made up of those that use it. I've been posting here pretty continuously since 1995. I think it's fair for me to be a bit territorial about "my" group and try to keep advertising out of it. >You wanna own something, go pay for hosting, start yourself a blog, and own >your own space. But on Usenet, you can't just wish people and their >relevant posts away just because you personally don't them. > > That's all that's really going on here. No, that's not what's going on here. If either of you had relevent posts, we wouldn't be having this "discussion." You guys are posting, you're advertising. Except for this whole line of threads, where you keep trying to tell us that you do belong here, and you have done nothing wrong. > So get over yourself. You get over yourself. SignatureJamie Clark www.ClarkDigitalArts.com >> So get over yourself. > >You get over yourself. Ever notice how just about everyone who spouts "get over yourself" (not meaning you, Jamie in response) need to get over themselves? Seriously. Banty My mouth is hanging open. I have never seen rejected salespeople launch a retaliatory attack before... what the ...?? Suzanne and Ed... the hospital gave me a simple breast pump, free of charge, when I had my first son. I used it on occasion. I never bought a better one. I didn't buy a baby sling, either. The kids are fine, 15 years later, btw. I am astounded at your manner and your gall. What are you mad about? Hey Ed and Suzanne... I know this really great book about salesmanship. Wanna buy a copy? You don't? Fine! I'm gonna haunt you with insults and complaints, then! > What are you mad > about? Wow, it's really too bad you think this! I am not / have not been mad at all, and I am just amazed how anybody could read anything I've written overlaid with their own "mad on". Yes, it is kinda sad how people interested in discussing breastfeeding are not supposed to discuss breastfeeding in any of these breastfeeding-related groups. I think it is fantastic what is going on in Africa right now. Sure, I'm proud of my own accomplishment, but you only found out about it because my friend brought it up, and that makes you all hopping mad, I guess because there could be other authorities in the subject outside of Usenet. But I for one have never even offered you a link to my product. I bet you can't even name it. Go ahead, read the archives. And I think as a group you've all been overtly and obviously silly excoriating a really gentle man who was maybe a little naive about the militancy of the breastfeeding vs non-breastfeeding issue. I think he expected to hear people explain their own reasons for their own styles of mothering, rather than hear everybody berate him for not mouthing the politically correct position that all styles are ok and can and do work well. This was because from our own discussions, he already knew I don't entirely swallow that whole line. If it were true, we wouldn't have any need anywhere for state child protective agencies. Sure, in the interests of polite discourse one must not touch on hot topics, least of all to admit that in the interests of capitalism, outrageously expensive clunky inferior breast pumps were foisted on new mothers for generations. Also in the interests of polite discourse, I have strongly urged my friend NOT to introduce another hot topic that drastically showcases the severe, even schizophrenic societal attitudes we tolerate in "modern" society towards motherhood. Y'all can thank me later ;-) Suzanne. Suzanne. schrieb: >> What are you mad >> about? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Usenet. But I for one have never even offered you a link to my product. > I bet you can't even name it. Go ahead, read the archives. Gosh, this is bullshit and you know it. You're the one using Caps Lock and you're the one insulting us regulars. > And I think as a group you've all been overtly and obviously silly > excoriating a really gentle man who was maybe a little naive about the > militancy of the breastfeeding vs non-breastfeeding issue. I think he > expected to hear people explain their own reasons for their own styles > of mothering, rather than hear everybody berate him for not mouthing the No, he repeatedly stated that all mothers who don't breastfeed and co-sleep are neglecting their children, don't love their children and to top it off those children not breastfeed and co-slept will turn out dumb and antisocial. > politically correct position that all styles are ok and can and do work > well. This was because from our own discussions, he already knew I > don't entirely swallow that whole line. If it were true, we wouldn't > have any need anywhere for state child protective agencies. Ok, lots of hot air and no content in the entire sentence, please keep going, maybe that explains global warming? > Sure, in the interests of polite discourse one must not touch on hot > topics, least of all to admit that in the interests of capitalism, > outrageously expensive clunky inferior breast pumps were foisted on new > mothers for generations. Well, if you can't take the heat... He was acting rude under pressure. As are you. I also don't recall anyone "foisting" "clunky inferior breast pumps" on any of the groups you're cross posting to, except you and your boyfriend of course, but I guess you see this differently, again. > Also in the interests of polite discourse, I have strongly urged my > friend NOT to introduce another hot topic that drastically showcases the > severe, even schizophrenic societal attitudes we tolerate in "modern" > society towards motherhood. We do discuss hot topics, except we don't start insulting each other if we're not thinking the exact same thoughts. > Y'all can thank me later ;-) Don't count on it. cu nicole - nak. > Yes, it is kinda sad how > people interested in discussing breastfeeding are not supposed to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > politically correct position that all styles are ok and can and do work > well. We can clearly deduce from these statements neither of you have ever actually bothered to read the breastfeeding newsgroup, or any of the major breastfeeding discussions in the pregnancy newsgroup. Thanks for enlightening us. > Y'all can thank me later ;-) Shortly after hell freezes over. Michelle Flutist Suzanne at SuzCorner schrieb: >> Discussing the advantages and disadvantages of breast pumps really >> cannot be done objectively by someone who is touting a particular [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mothers has a serious gap in it, there are many mothers out there who > are driven to invent something better themselves. No. Most mothers do not even need a breastpump at all. I sold my pump to a friend and I have not regretted it. Besides, I liked the AVENT Pump. It was perfect for my needs and I believe a lot of women think so, too. I have yet to hear a single person say the same about your pump. > FWIW, If you trace back through Ed's posts, you'll find that in most of > them, he stood to gain *nothing* from mentioning the product I offer. He > just liked the product and said so. And he loved the product because he successfully used it himself? Yeah... cu nicole >> Discussing the advantages and disadvantages of breast pumps really >> cannot be done objectively by someone who is touting a particular [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mothers has a serious gap in it, there are many mothers out there who are > driven to invent something better themselves. Wrong. This is in fact true. We don't have issue with the fact that you invented this thing, we have issue with you and your clone advertising it on these newsgroups. You guys didn't search out newsgroups to participate in because you were interested in getting to know people or exchanging ideas, you searched out newsgroups soley for the purpose of advertising your bump -- breastfeeding groups, kids groups, pregnancy groups, and mothers. You looked at these groups as potential customers, plain and simple. And when we called you on it, you got more and more insulting and rude and continued to spam us with your advertising crap. I've got to agree with other posters, you both have a lot to learn about advertising and marketing. "You all suck. I spit in your face, and flaunt your rules. Wanna buy my product? No? gosh, how unfair! You still suck. How about now? Wanna buy it now?" How's that working for ya? > FWIW, If you trace back through Ed's posts, you'll find that in most of > them, he stood to gain *nothing* from mentioning the product I offer. He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > seen an increase in hits from overseas directly traced to what he's been > saying, so there ARE mothers who are interested. Just because you have hits, doesn't mean that people are interested. I went and checked out your site, but trust me, I have no intention of buying from you. > I have to tell you, when I find a great product for mothers online, I > often write to the inventor and congratulate and praise her or him on a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I dare you to not like them! What do I win? I didn't like either product. Wouldn't buy either, wouldn't recommend them. > And I'll bet I'm not the only mom reading here who has great ideas. There > are resources for just such mothers: > http://mominventors.com/ whose slogan is: "Moms Helping Moms" That's nice. It's cool that moms invent things, and it's cool when other moms support them. But it's not cool to spam usenet newsgroups. Ever. > For Pete's sake, loosen up, ladies. Tight sphincters make for miserable > childbirths. We're all plenty loose. We just don't like rude spammers who stay well beyond their welcome. SignatureJamie Clark www.ClarkDigitalArts.com >> http://www.moboleez.com/ >> http://www.mytinyhands.com/ >> >> I dare you to not like them! They are both unneccessary products and I would certainly not spend money on them. I used receiving blankets for privacy or a discreetly lifted t-shirt (actually, I think Western society should to get over the idea that feeding a baby by breastfeeding has to be *discreet* to be decent). I didn't need a sign to tell people to wash their hands and I think its rather silly. SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > On May 8, 1:41 pm, "dejablues" <dejabl...@comcast.net> wrote: >> "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "alt.mothers", not when you consider the JUNK that's posted here that > NOBODY complains about, Get a decent news server and you won't see most of it. Don't go boohooing here because you chose the wrong news server. > I am feeling singled-out for abuse, Boo friggin' hoo. > as an unwanted outsider Finally you are making sense. > with a perceived agenda to promote a certain kind of > care and attention for babies -- as seen when my FIRST posts here > about subjects such as prolonged breastfeeding, and whether parents > are wise to put their little kids in a lonely little room down the > hall Big rooms are better :-p? rather than show them lots of love and continuing mother-baby > intimacy... OH! You HATED those ideas! Hmmmm, just a minute ago you were whining that YOU were singled out. Don't you mean to say YOU are hated then? > Or, JAMIE Clark did, at > least! Her latest thoughts on this matter that I saw were "f**k off, > Ed!" quote / unquote. Only one person responded? Or are you perhaps SINGLING OUT someone? > So, after being perceived as not being quite > politically correct, besides being a man.. Men are not politically correct? Since when and why? > when I added the link to > the breastpump site, you have all gone ballistic! Everyone? The entire planet's population? Everyone in all those four newsgroups you are crossposting to? (You really have NO clue about netiquette, do you?) > Now, MIND YOU, Excuse me? Mind YOU! > this is DESPITE the fact that unless you heavily filter Or a decent news server. > what you see > in this and the other moms & kids groups, Alt.mothers is not a moms groups, nor a kids group. > there is an overwhelming > amount of textual litter there, ranging from luggage, Viagra, Vioxx, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Okay, I can't argue this guy about ISSUES, so let's use > technicalities to get him off the air!" <snort> Boohoohoooooooooooooooo. > No, this is a battle at > least between cliques and maybe between cultures. Cliques? When you are crossposting to FOUR different NGs?! > You are evidently in the > "denying-intimacy-and-breastfeeding-with-baby- > so-Mom-won't-be-hassled" culture. Ah, please explain this for the culture for each and every country's culture, you are obviously so very knowledgeable. > The culture I am representing is > the OPPOSITE culture. Sounds more like the 'bord voor je kop' culture as we would say in Dutch. > It is the: "Look at these results! These > brilliant and creative children! when you breastfeed them for a > longer period of time!" Ah yes, there's this huge division in the world: everyone in college was breastfed, all drop-outs were bottle fed. Obviously you fall in the latter category. > THAT is what I came in on, and I stick by > it, and NOBODY has given me a SHRED of personal evidence in this > group that would counter the anecdotal evidence of the 5 kids I > mentioned who were exceptionally talented and successful after being > breastfed for 2+ years. Easy. I was not breastfed, yet I have one degree and am currently working towards four more. Oh, and I easily qualify for Mensa :-pppppp. > What I HAVE gotten from several of you loud > pontificators is stuff like "you are not being sensitive to the > feelings of we, the readers of this newsgroup! I'll put if differently: you're rude. > This is a very delicate subject. Spam? No it isn't. Spam is rude. > How dare you 'get in the faces' of these mothers > and caregivers who feel differently about this subject?" I would > interpret THAT as GUILT. Please mail me your personal details, you sound like a perfect twisted mind to pick about with my fellow psychology students. > These mothers and caregivers don't wish to > be reminded that their reaction to having a baby was to want to get > the baby out of their way. And just how many times have you boohood this to your mummy? > Their desire was to NOT nurse the baby, > to give it formula instead, to "FERBERIZE" it, (you can look up that > term if you don't understand it), You're the one lacking understanding. > to put the baby in a room across > the hall or down the hall where its screams won't be that noticeable. Just how big do you picture people's houses? Southfork?! > The merest mention that perhaps it would be more compassionate and > caring to raise the child with more intimacy and with breastfeeding > led to this recent torrent of criticism about the "links" on my > messages, etc. , leading to commercial sites! Because you were spamming and thus misbehaving. > HOW HYPOCRITICAL. Hmmmm, sounds to me like you need to take a marketing course. Urgently. > You > can't win on the issues, you prefer not to THINK about the issues, so > you decide I'm a SPAMMER! That's because you ARE. > Instead of responding "ON TOPIC" about the proper care of children, You clearly have NO clue about what's OT in alt.mothers. > the litany of complaints and jingo-ist statements by your "panel of > experts" makes ME feel like I'm in front of a Sandinista or Pol Pot > jury ready to shoot first and ask questions later. I'd guess that's just your guilty conscience. How very rude to compare yourself to that BTW, perhaps you should stop worrying about breastfeeding and go back to your parents and ask them to teach you basic manners. They've clearly not done so. > That's because > I'm perceived as a man, And you are what? A eunuch? > and therefore an outsider, You are a SPAMMER! > and moreover, not > politically correct. Spam is never politically correct. > It is not politically correct, I see, to the > most vocal members of this group, Which group? You are crossposting to FOUR groups! > who PRETEND this PUBLIC, UN- > MODERATED group is "THEIRS", ROTFL! > to love and nurture your child to the > utmost, and to wish to share the information with others about > successful strategies that have actually worked. A strategy for a child, yes, that just SCREAMS intimacy, doesn't it LOL? > All the responses to > me and to my friend Suzanne bear this out! Boohooo times two.... > By the way. MARKETING is, in this case, the introduction of ON-TOPIC > INFORMATION of a potentially valuable new product or service to > someone who without said marketing, would not know the product exists. PML! Where did you get your marketing education? Muppet academy ROTFL?! > VersaPed and http://www.SPAM are in the minority to the > existing and highly successful breastpump manufacturers. This is a > case of David going up against Goliath! All companies start small. It's takes - among others - knowledge and respect for (potential) customers to grow. Your David will clearly never make it. > "David" is struggling for > breath, struggling to make a FEW sales of what is a GREAT, but > comparatively UNKNOWN product! So you are spamming. > Spreading around the information about > the advantages of this product will help a mother raise her 3 children > as it also provides a breastpump system which is low-cost and > adaptable to other systems already in use. So you are spamming. > This breastpump which > Suzanne invented and patented was intended, from inception, since it > was developed by a beastfeeding mother of 3, to simplify life and > minimize expenses for mothers. Beastfeeding? Is that your idea of intimacy with children? I'd rather have them across the hall, thank you very much... > You are mixing-up the introduction of > a basic product which is useful for many readers of THIS NEWSGROUP, Which newsgroup? You are crossposting to FOUR newsgroups! > with SPAMMING. Because it IS spam. > Think about what you are saying. I usually do. Why don't you? > THINK about the fact > that this product represents an advance in its field, and that new > mothers, caretakers, doulas, midwives, and clinicians ought to have > this information available to them -- and where better than in THESE > particular mother & baby-related newsgroups? Easy: spam is bad netiquette. SignatureMo (some days you just need to poke something with a stick...) On May 15, 10:05 am, "Mo" <send dot mail dot to dot m...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On May 8, 1:41 pm, "dejablues" <dejabl...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> "Suzanne's Friend" <edaugu...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 263 lines] > -- > Mo (some days you just need to poke something with a stick...) Bad netiquette is one thing, wrong-headedness is another. I would say you folks are wrong-headed when you GIVE UP trying to STOP the abundance of porn and kiddie porn, Vioxx, Viagra, accessories, travel ads, etc,. like you are doing, in these 4 mothers/kids/pregnancy/ breastfeeding groups, and complain about someone who is ON-TOPIC with messages which actually ARE of interest to nursing mothers, or parents in general, such as I'm doing & Suzanne is doing. HOW DARE YOU pick on people who are posting about childraising methods and breastpumps, while you sit idly by, insulated by your kill-files, as links for preteen and lolita sites, among others, are being repeateadly posted on these groups? Have you REALLY exhausted every weapon in your arsenal against the REAL "SPAM" and ILLEGAL SPAM that's out there? Have you notified local or regional Law Enforcement? There is an F.B.I. office right here in Phoenix, I talked with them just a few months ago about a person of interest... I am about to contact them again, in regards to how & why it is, that newsgroups like breastfeeding/pregnancy/kids/mothers should be INUNDATED with ILLEGAL SPAM. Alright, how abou this? Have you written to your Congressmen or Senator? Have you brought this matter of ILLEGAL SPAM posted in foreign countries up with Obama, Hillary, and McCain? No! You would rather cross spears with people who are posting about BREASTPUMPS. Tsk, tsk, what hypocrisy! Your comment that you don't understand the idea of intimacy between mom & baby, that you PREFER TO HAVE (THE BABY) ACROSS THE HALL, reveals you are, like most of these others, a Ferber-izer who feels baby needs to be "toughened-up" by screaming their head off rather than being closely attended to and loved. And then, I predict that when you get old, you will wonder why YOUR kids put you in a nursing home rather than take care of you! Hah! You will deserve it! Best wishes, -----Ed http://groups.google.com/group/BOOK-ADVENTURES-with-Ed-Augusts >Bad netiquette is one thing, wrong-headedness is another. I would say >you folks are wrong-headed when you GIVE UP trying to STOP the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >rather cross spears with people who are posting about BREASTPUMPS. >Tsk, tsk, what hypocrisy! "Look over there! Look at all that BAD BAD spam. You should do something about that BAD BAD spam instead of worry about little old me and my GOOD GOOD spam. Golly, by not doing anything about that BAD BAD spam you are basically supporting kiddie porn and viagra. How dare you!" >Your comment that you don't understand the idea of intimacy between >mom & baby, that you PREFER TO HAVE (THE BABY) ACROSS THE HALL, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >when you get old, you will wonder why YOUR kids put you in a nursing >home rather than take care of you! Hah! You will deserve it! She was just trying to get your goat, Ed. And I believe she got it. HA. SignatureJamie Clark www.ClarkDigitalArts.com Never heard of snipping?! <snip> > Bad netiquette is one thing, wrong-headedness is another. You would know. > I would say > you folks I am not 'you folks'. > are wrong-headed when you GIVE UP trying to STOP the > abundance of porn and kiddie porn, Vioxx, Viagra, accessories, travel > ads, etc,. like you are doing, I am? Since when? Fantasy! > in these 4 mothers/kids/pregnancy/ breastfeeding groups, Get your facts straight, I only subscribe to ONE of those groups. Fantasy! > and complain about someone who is ON-TOPIC Spam is never on-topic. > with > messages which actually ARE of interest to nursing mothers, or parents > in general, such as I'm doing & Suzanne is doing. You are *spamming*. > HOW DARE YOU <snort> Naturally I am totally impressed now that you started to yell at me. > pick > on people who are posting You are not. You are *spamming*. > about childraising methods and breastpumps, > while you sit idly by, Please pass on my compliments to your parents for the charming manners they taught you. They must be so proud of their rude offspring. > insulated by your kill-files, Fantasy again, I have never mentioned kill files. > as links for > preteen and lolita sites, among others, are being repeateadly posted > on these groups? As I said before: get a decent news server and most (if not all) will be filtered out. I happen to have a decent news server. > Have you REALLY exhausted every weapon in your > arsenal against the REAL "SPAM" and ILLEGAL SPAM that's out there? Have I ever said such a thing? Fantasy again. > Have you notified local or regional Law Enforcement? Wouldn't you like to know... > There is an > F.B.I. office right here in Phoenix, I talked with them just a few > months ago about a person of interest... I am about to contact them > again, in regards to how & why it is, that newsgroups like > breastfeeding/pregnancy/kids/mothers should be INUNDATED with ILLEGAL > SPAM. What do I care? The FBI has *no* jurisdiction here. > Alright, how abou this? Have you written to your Congressmen > or Senator? <yawn> Try to wrap your peanut brain around this: this is an INTERNATIONAL newsgroup and the vast majority of the world's population does NOT live in the US! If you knew ANYTHING about the world (which you clearly don't!) you knew that very few countries have a Congress and Senators. So, no I have not written to my Congressmen of my Senator, since they don't exist, not to mention the fact that we have equal representation here. > Have you brought this matter of ILLEGAL SPAM posted in > foreign countries up with Obama, Hillary, and McCain? Foreign countries like the US you mean? Why would I possibly want to write to presidential wannabees in the foreign country that the US is? Please list all the MPs you have written to in my country. > No! Because I don't live in the US, moron! > You would > rather cross spears with people who are posting about BREASTPUMPS. Do you think that applying it to your head might activate an actual brain cell in you? Do try! > Tsk, tsk, what hypocrisy! I'd rather injustly be called a hypocrite by someone who spams, is rude to the core, fantasises more than Disney and DreamWorks combined and conveniently does not respond to anything that doesn't suit them, than be called what you are: an idiot. > Your comment that you don't understand the idea of intimacy between > mom & baby, I made no such comment. Either admit that you are lying or quote. > that you PREFER TO HAVE (THE BABY) ACROSS THE HALL, I made no such comment. Either admit that you are lying or quote. > reveals you are, like most of these others, a Ferber-izer who feels > baby needs to be "toughened-up" by screaming their head off rather I made no such comment. Either admit that you are lying or quote. > than being closely attended to and loved. And then, I predict that > when you get old, you will wonder why YOUR kids Which kids are that? > put you in a nursing > home rather than take care of you! Hah! You will deserve it! Sad spammer. > Best wishes, -----Ed > http://BOOK-ADVENTURES Book adventures? I bet you think you are living it now... SignatureMo Are you over there in Dutch land? lol. I know I don't recognize you or your name here, but the Dutch thing just got me......I hope you don't mind me asking......I need to make a passing dish (preferably one that American kids would be willing to try) that is Dutch-oriented to represent the origins of my family (whoever it was that was Dutch -- I have no idea!) (we are a lot of nationalities actually) for a potluck dinner at school, so I'm searching and searching trying to find something to make - do you have any recommendations? > Sounds more like the 'bord voor je kop' culture as we would say in Dutch. |
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