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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / May 2008Can anybody point me to any of these famous misc.kids.etc & alt.mothers newsgroup "charters" ?
There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting people for spam", but not one person yet has yet posted a link. Any of ya actually got one? <tick tick tick.... TIME'S UP> What I see is a lot of brow beating of a guy who posts pregnancy and breastfeeding related articles, and JUST because he's a friend to me he also chooses to include a link to a great breastfeeding related product - namely the breast pump I patented. I'll tell you this -- when I needed a breast pump like this one, there was no such thing. Knowing how badly I needed it, and how my situation was certainly not unique from other mothers, I made it happen. And I did that as much for the betterment of the lives of other mothers than for anything else. Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? I can tell you from personally knowing Ed, that he is absolutely terrific around kids, and he does indeed care a lot about the welfare of babies as well as their mothers. He is doing a favor to you and any mother interested by making you aware of a great product that makes mothers' lives easier. If you're not interested, then fine, skip to the next topic heading you are interested in -- just like all the vioxx and Rolex ads you skip over without following up on ad nauseum. But you seem to be oblivious to the fact that your following up to Ed's posts indicates to me that you ARE interested in what Ed has to say, whether or not you like to admit it or not. But how transparent can you be? Do I smell envy that you aren't also connected with such a great product for mothers? Didn't you know -- You can be. ;-) Those of you also interested in a work at home opportunity so you can be with your kids can contact me. The rest of you can.... skip it!! Suzanne. > There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting people > for spam", but not one person yet has yet posted a link. Any of ya > actually got one? <tick tick tick.... TIME'S UP> > > What I see is a lot of brow beating of a guy who posts pregnancy and > breastfeeding related articles, No. He posted his advertisement first, then when regular posters took him to task, he threw in a random post about how he knows women that were breastfeeders. Not the same thing. >and JUST because he's a friend to me he also chooses to include a link to a >great breastfeeding related product - namely the breast pump I patented. You put him up to it. His main goal was to push your product. Not to discuss pregnancy or breastfeeding. > I'll tell you this -- when I needed a breast pump like this one, there was > no such thing. Knowing how badly I needed it, and how my situation was > certainly not unique from other mothers, I made it happen. And I did that > as much for the betterment of the lives of other mothers than for anything > else. Making money doesn't factor into it? I'd bet that's your main objective. > Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex > watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. > > So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? Edvins Augusts is a real person. He actually answered those who criticisized him. All that other stuff you mention is posted by spambots hosted in some foreign country. Objecting to them is futile. > I can tell you from personally knowing Ed, that he is absolutely terrific > around kids, and he does indeed care a lot about the welfare of babies as > well as their mothers. He just wants to make money, same as you. >He is doing a favor to you and any mother interested by making you aware of >a great product that makes mothers' lives easier. If you're not >interested, then fine, skip to the next topic heading you are interested >in -- just like all the vioxx and Rolex ads you skip over without following >up on ad nauseum. I've tried Vioxx, and it's great. I sure wouldn't buy it from a Usenet spammer, though. > But you seem to be oblivious to the fact that your following up to Ed's > posts indicates to me that you ARE interested in what Ed has to say, > whether or not you like to admit it or not. WE JUST WANT HIM TO GO AWAY. Did you consider the fact that Edvins has a long history of Usenet kookdom? Didn't think so. >But how transparent can you be? Do I smell envy that you aren't also >connected with such a great product for mothers? Translation : My business isn't taking off in the way I expected and I'm going to blame YOU for it. > Those of you also interested in a work at home opportunity so you can be > with your kids can contact me. > > The rest of you can.... skip it!! > > Suzanne. The Spammer. Leave . Now. Please. kthxbye! >There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting >people for spam", but not one person yet has yet posted a link. Any of >ya actually got one? <tick tick tick.... TIME'S UP> Well THAT's fair. :-/ There is no formal charter since misc.kids evolved out of another group when many of the newsgroups were renamed, but there *is* a FAQ posted in misc.kids.info, with this link: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/misc-kids/faq/part1 Which contains: ____________________________ *** Netiquette on misc.kids *** Most of the guidelines here are the same as in news.announce.newusers. In fact, it is *strongly* recommended that you read the etiquette guidelines in news.announce.newusers (or in any other introductory text on news readers) before you post any articles. * misc.kids is a discussion group. Please do not post binaries. There are groups specifically chartered for this purpose. misc.kids already has a tremendous amount of traffic and the extra bandwidth used by these files is not appreciated. Please remember that someone has to pay for all those bytes to be trasmitted around the world. * Please do not post advertisements. misc.kids is a non-commercial newsgroup. Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to children are appropriate, although they would be more appropriate in misc.kids.consumers. ____________________________ But you know what - we don't even NEED it in the FAQ to be able to protest the absolute rudeness of busting into a discussion group hawking your wares. Would you walk up to a group of women at lunch, who are talking, laughing, and whip out your breastpump and try to sell it? Hopefully not. (Hopefully...) Well, busting into these newsgroups doing that is just as rude. But mercenary folks like you just don't seem to get that... >What I see is a lot of brow beating of a guy who posts pregnancy and >breastfeeding related articles, and JUST because he's a friend to me he >also chooses to include a link to a great breastfeeding related product >- namely the breast pump I patented. Amazing. You don't see how being such an *interested* party in this would cloud your judgement. >I'll tell you this -- when I needed a breast pump like this one, there >was no such thing. Knowing how badly I needed it, and how my situation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex >watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. BECAUSE - we use killfiles and also use services that filter out some of that stuff because there's nothing else that can be done about that. I don't even SEE that stuff. Someone like *you*, on the other hand, pretending to participate but you're really here only to push your wares, is harder to avoid, and yes indeedy you get a strong reaction when you do that. If you were more experienced with this venue and stuck around getting to know what it's about before spouting off your mercentile stuff, you'd have learned that. >So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? See above. >I can tell you from personally knowing Ed, that he is absolutely >terrific around kids, and he does indeed care a lot about the welfare of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the next topic heading you are interested in -- just like all the vioxx >and Rolex ads you skip over without following up on ad nauseum. Oh what bullshit. Commercials don't belong here - period. Existence of other spam does not a justification of your actions make. Go away. Banty Wow, the gall! A guy selling a mothering product gets shut down for trying to use a discussion board to make sales, then his friend berates the mothers (still touting the product). On a parenting board. Hello? Lots of moms here to point out the obvious: THIS IS RUDE! Breast and bottle feeders agree: You are a bratty girl scout, stamping your feet on the porch because the answer was 'No thanks, no cookies today'. Scram, Missy. Sell your cookies somewhere else. >Wow, the gall! A guy selling a mothering product gets shut down for >trying to use a discussion board to make sales, then his friend [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >stamping your feet on the porch because the answer was 'No thanks, no >cookies today'. Scram, Missy. Sell your cookies somewhere else. As a former Girl Scout I object strongly! You will now be force-fed four boxes of Trefoils. Banty > >> There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > in misc.kids.consumers. > Hmmm! "Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to children are appropriate...." Thank You! Case Dismissed! P.S., I think you're wrong about the evolution of ' misc.kids.' These group names haven't changed in at least 18 years...since before there was a 'web'. Best wishes, -----Ed http://groups.google.com/group/BOOK-ADVENTURES-with-Ed-Augusts > > . > > Go away. > > Banty >Hmmm! "Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to >children are appropriate...." That would be more in the vein of.... "Hey everyone, I'm thinking of buying Brand XYZ car seat. Anyone used one? Anyone have any other recommendations? See Ed? It's NOT advertising, but an actual discussion to let others point out their viewpoint. In your posts, all you do is shill your friend's product. >Thank You! Case Dismissed! Don't think so. Nan > >Hmmm! "Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to > >children are appropriate...." [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nan You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ breastfeeding" quartet of groups, in which I gave a paragraph for each of 5 different kids who were breastfed 2+ years, and their exceptional talents, good behavior, etc., and also TRIED to start a discussion about maternal nurturing in general...i.e., that in these cases of successful parenting, the mothers stayed close to their babies, usually slept alongside the baby, rather than "FERBERIZE" them by making them sleep down the hall in a lonesome, dark little room as a different 'culture', "Ferber's" culture, believes is best. I TRIED to start this dialog, but I got groans of disapproval for raising the question, I was told that I was being insensitive to the mothers who read these messages who raised their kids in the opposite way. Now, possibly what's wrong here is that I started posting with a message here, a message there, among these four groups, so if you were looking at 'misc.kids.pregnancy' maybe you missed one of these posts of mine to 'misc.kids.breastfeeding'. My posts on these mothers & babies groups have been EXCEPTIONALLY "on-topic". And , by the way, Suzanne never told me what to write, I don't need anyone to encourage me to write! Best wishes, ----Ed > Now, >possibly what's wrong here is that I started posting with a message >here, a message there, among these four groups, so if you were looking >at 'misc.kids.pregnancy' maybe you missed one of these posts of mine >to 'misc.kids.breastfeeding'. I read misc.kids and alt.mothers and neither of the other groups. I am deleting groups I don't read when I answer you from now on. I don't care what you did in other groups.  SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > On Thu, 15 May 2008 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT), Ed Augusts Well, let's see: I wrote: edaugu...@gmail.com> wrote: Now,possibly what's wrong here is that I started posting with a message here, a message there, among these four groups, so if you were looking at 'misc.kids.pregnancy' maybe you missed one of these posts of mine to 'misc.kids.breastfeeding'. You replied: I read misc.kids and alt.mothers and neither of the other groups. I am deleting groups I don't read when I answer you from now on. I don't care what you did in other groups. Dorothy You don't "care" what I did in "other groups"? Okay, that's fair, I guess! I can see the fact that I should not have posted my ON-TOPIC remarks in misc.kids.pregnancy without including them in misc.kids and alt.mothers, so, here, so that you get the complete picture, is what I posted there on April 20: I'm becoming extraordinarily curious about what I perceive as a very positive effect that prolonged breastfeeding can have on a growing child's ability to both learn and create as well as display good health! I have recently seen some examples of children that have been breastfed past 2 years of age. Let me give you a run-down on their various attributes: Oldest, is a girl just finishing high school. She excels in learning foreign languages, writes complex and delightful fantasies and other short stories that are so good, that I agree with her teachers that they'll soon be published! She also sews kimonos, wedding dresses, and other gowns, often designing her own patterns! As to physical condition, she is in the martial arts and has robust good health, though refined and delicate at the same time, not lacking in the feminine graces. Next up is a boy of 15. He is musically gifted and both sings and dances. He's been touring the nation and the world for the past few years and doing solos both singing and dancing. He has the mind of a philosopher. He asks questions, is a deep thinker, and is of a very serious nature. He has no known health problems, plays tennis and other games and sports. Next along is another boy, of 12. He is a budding scientist. He recently won a regional science fair and is extremely interested in robotics and aerospace. He also plays a musical instrument and is taking lessons in it, as well. He has a strongly physical nature and rough-houses a bit to burn off some of this energy, but has a golden heart, is generous and friendly to all. Next to the youngest is a boy of 6. He reputedly has prophetic and healing abilities that can be seen in his deep-set and very dark eyes. His mother turns to HIM for advice because she feels he has a wisdom beyond his years. He is much more calm and relaxed than many children of the same age. He has no physical infirmities or weaknesses that his mother has ever mentioned. The youngest is a boy who just turned 4. He is just a happily playing, thriving lad! Just like his six year old brother, he has no infirmities or physical or mental challenges or weaknesses that anyone knows of. He communicates well and his verbal abilities and other skills are a bit higher than other boys of the same age. He is perhaps too young to single out any special abilities he may have. As I said, all these kids were breastfed until they were at least two years old! They seem to be well-adjusted, mentally proficient, show creative abilities including musical and artistic and literary abilities, and I haven't seen any of them display any physical or mental problems of any kind. I am wondering if these kids are the exception, or the rule! Can anyone add to this list with kids whom they know who have also been breast fed? THAT's what I wrote & posted on April 20th. And I stirred up a hornet's nest, with Jamie Clark, Deja and others, because nobody could come up with concrete examples to back their p.o.v. And I was scorned for being "INSENSITIVE" to mothers who had raised their kids using the other, less intimate, less loving, less attending-to-their-needs method! It was said I was not following "NETIQUETTE" by posting a thread advocating this view of child- rearing! Can you believe that? Best wishes, ------Ed http://breast-pumps.net There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits On May 15, 10:09 am, toto <scarec...@wicked.witch> wrote: > On Thu, 15 May 2008 09:57:37 -0700 (PDT), Ed Augusts Well, let's see: I wrote: edaugu...@gmail.com> wrote: Now,possibly what's wrong here is that I started posting with a message here, a message there, among these four groups, so if you were looking at 'misc.kids.pregnancy' maybe you missed one of these posts of mine to 'misc.kids.breastfeeding'. You replied: I read misc.kids and alt.mothers and neither of the other groups. I am deleting groups I don't read when I answer you from now on. I don't care what you did in other groups. Dorothy You don't "care" what I did in "other groups"? Okay, that's fair, I guess! I can see the fact that I should not have posted my ON-TOPIC remarks in misc.kids.pregnancy without including them in misc.kids and alt.mothers, so, here, so that you get the complete picture, is what I posted there on April 20: <snips reposting of material that could be readily found by the reader if they so desired. Ah, now I get it. You want us all to move into one news group to save you the hassel of addressing four and making sure that the thread, as it morphs, doesn't leave anyone out. You two are really cute you know that? I mean really! That's like asking me to move into the neighbor's house just because they have a kid and so do we. Utterly fascinating theory, but sorry, we built our house because we wanted to be here, not there. Those who wish to participate in the other ng's do. Those who don't do not. Mixing and intermingling for the sake of ongoing spamming and near troll behavior is more netiquette violations. Since you both claim to have a long history in usenet you know that is also a huge violation of those mores, but hey, you don't care so have at it. I love trimming headers and p0ts, that is one of my specialties. So, keep throwing the spam around. Entertainment value will be used up shortly, I can see the killfiles starting to be utilized already. And I've only been back from travian life for about 36 hours. Soon you and your sock puppet will only be talking to the wall. /me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. So, everone, raise your hand if you have killfiled these twerps and I will tally you up for a fresh shipment of tim tams and Vermont maple syrup. A aula schrieb: > So, everone, raise your hand if you have killfiled these twerps and I will > tally you up for a fresh shipment of tim tams and Vermont maple syrup. Me. I just read the replies and have fun with those ;-) Where do I send my adress? ;-) cu nicole >aula schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >cu >nicole I'm gathering a list of addresses and will post them shortly... Banty (hee hee) > >aula schrieb: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Banty (hee hee) don't miss suzy's isp there...... aula schrieb: >>> aula schrieb: >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > don't miss suzy's isp there...... I thought maybe we can get her to send us free samples of her incredible invention... Possibly with Ed to demo it? cu nicole >aula schrieb: >>>> aula schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >I thought maybe we can get her to send us free samples of her incredible >invention... Possibly with Ed to demo it? Do they have hair traps in those things (y'know - like for the drain for doggy baths..)?? Say, maybe that's Suzy's patentable idea! Banty Banty schrieb: >> I thought maybe we can get her to send us free samples of her incredible >> invention... Possibly with Ed to demo it? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Say, maybe that's Suzy's patentable idea! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww On the other hand.. It does have pedals, so maybe it's hands free and he can concentrate on.. other.. things while pedaling? *shudder* cu nicole > Banty schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > On the other hand.. It does have pedals, so maybe it's hands free and he > can concentrate on.. other.. things while pedaling? *shudder* Oh, damn Nicole. Do you mind passing out brain bleach for that mental image? :p Michelle Flutist Michelle J. Haines schrieb: >> Banty schrieb: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Oh, damn Nicole. Do you mind passing out brain bleach for that mental > image? :p There ya go *hands over the extra strong detergent* cu nicole >/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. > >So, everone, raise your hand if you have killfiled these twerps and I will >tally you up for a fresh shipment of tim tams and Vermont maple syrup. > >A Ooooh, real maple syrup! /drool Nan >>/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Nan I note that you're not drooling over the stupid tim tams.... And New York State maple syrup is clearly superior to Vermont syrup. So THERE. Banty >>>/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Banty Yabbutt, I can get Tim Tams anytime. Real syrup, however.... Na >>>>/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Na You should come to the Great Northeast! Aula came back... Banty > >>>>/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > You should come to the Great Northeast! Aula came back... yabbut aula would gladly depart before the next snow season. cost of living here is awful. /me shudders in fear pondering next fuel season pre-buy. >> >>>>/me passes out scones and wonders where Sarah is. >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >living here is awful. >/me shudders in fear pondering next fuel season pre-buy. You mean for heating oil? Yeah - this is the first year I did a pre-buy, sure glad I did! When did you do it, like August? Banty > You mean for heating oil? > > Yeah - this is the first year I did a pre-buy, sure glad I did! When did you do > it, like August? early june. as soon as they became available. >> You mean for heating oil? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >early june. as soon as they became available. If you don't mind saying, what was your $$/gal? Banty > >> You mean for heating oil? > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > If you don't mind saying, what was your $$/gal? I THINK it was 2.59 but i'd have to ask husband to be sure. >> >> You mean for heating oil? >> >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I THINK it was 2.59 but i'd have to ask husband to be sure. That sounds about right. Maybe I should call sooner then - in August I got 3.05. I'm happy enough that I got that, though. Banty > That sounds about right. Maybe I should call sooner then - in August I got 3.05. > I'm happy enough that I got that, though. You should go earlier. Your price will almost certainly be better than into the season. >> That sounds about right. Maybe I should call sooner then - in August I got >3.05. >> I'm happy enough that I got that, though. > >You should go earlier. Your price will almost certainly be better than into >the season. Thanks for sharing the info. I've in the past let the price float, and not come out *too* badly for that. I was getting burnt last year (2006-2007 hearing season), though... I always wondered how the oil delivery company makes ends meet with a lot of people on contract, when the price rises, without shifting the costs to those who don't have contracts. I asked that of my oil company, and their answer was that the oil is purchased and reserved on the market well before delivery, and my August price is the current price that they can purchase oil for their customers who obtain contracts at that time. What is your information on that? Are you actually buying a quantity, or going on contract like me? (If you don't mind.. :-) Banty > Thanks for sharing the info. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Are you actually buying a quantity, or going on contract like me? (If you don't > mind.. :-) It is my understanding that the oil company buys a certain amount of oil at that price that we purchase at. I do not have a clue where it is stored though. A >> Thanks for sharing the info. >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >that price that we purchase at. I do not have a clue where it is stored >though. Various places, anywhere from at the port to their own storage tanks, they said. Banty > Various places, anywhere from at the port to their own storage tanks, they said. Makes sense. I shudder to contemplate this coming year's prices. With gas for the car pushing $4/gal when it was at least a dollar less a mere six weeks ago is scarey. I am thinking of living on welfare rather than driving myself to the poorhouse to go to work. Ok, not really, but it is awful to just see any raises I get erased by both insurance premium increases and the cost of getting to work. I am, for all intents and purposes, earning less in real dollars now than I was four years ago because of those factors alone. Don't tell me the economy is healthy when my personal situation is deteriorating. A >> Various places, anywhere from at the port to their own >> storage tanks, they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > alone. Don't tell me the economy is healthy when my > personal situation is deteriorating. the economy is healthy for Bush's oil buddies, & that's all that matters. i was kidding around with Nan about running for president... maybe i really should. at least i'm not isolated from real people like everyone else that's running... anyone want to start a Dark Horse party? too late for this year, but we've got 4 years to work on it. lee SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. > yabbut aula would gladly depart before the next snow season. cost of > living here is awful. > /me shudders in fear pondering next fuel season pre-buy. Have you considered a wood stove? Between the wood stove and backup electric heat (which is now cheaper than oil) , we haven't bought heating oil in five years. Plus, male children are built-in wood choppers and haulers. ;-) > > yabbut aula would gladly depart before the next snow season. cost of > > living here is awful. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > oil in five years. > Plus, male children are built-in wood choppers and haulers. ;-) I would love one but the chimney has only one flue, so we would have to build a whole second chimney and such. a >> > yabbut aula would gladly depart before the next snow season. cost of >> > living here is awful. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I would love one but the chimney has only one flue, so we would have to >build a whole second chimney and such. Ditto here. And my male child labor will off to college in a couple of years. So oil it is. But, a lot of folks around here are going to wood stoves. They're kinda neat, and I certainly can understand people going to wood stoves. My neighbors right next door who are struggling a bit have gone all to wood - often garnered from the woods behind our houses (I've given him permission for any fallen wood in the backwoods part of my property). Couple of problems with that though are that cords of wood have shot up in price (not everyone has the muscle my neighbors have with a man quite used to the work and two teen boys, and woods to garner to boot), and the *other* problem is that the air around here is getting kinda smokey some days, and it's pretty much nullifying the improvement in carbon footprint that conservation due to high fuel prices would have brought. Banty >>> > yabbut aula would gladly depart before the next snow season. cost of >>> > living here is awful. >>> > /me shudders in fear pondering next fuel season pre-buy. We had a level payment for oil, and in August they calculated that it would be $180.00/month based on 12 months. (They always do it wrong BTW and often let us run out of fuel, but there aren't a lot of options here). They recalculated this spring. We were $1000.00+ down from what the fuel they delivered actually cost, so they raised the monthly payment to $460.00/month. We have an old furnace. I hoping that when we replace it, we will go the geothermal route. We have enough back yard for them to dig up so that we could do that. We had electric baseboard heat when we lived in RI. Very expensive and of course of no account when the electricity went off. >>> Have you considered a wood stove? Between the wood stove and backup >>> electric heat (which is now cheaper than oil) , we haven't bought heating [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >nullifying the improvement in carbon footprint that conservation due to high >fuel prices would have brought. We still have a lot of people around here that heat with wood (i.e. they've always done it that way), and there is a smoky fog that hangs over the low places in the winter. There are also people that use propane. We have three fireplaces, all with Franklin stoves in them. One in the living room, one in the back parlor and one in one of the upstairs bedrooms. The chimney from the back parlor goes up through the two back bedrooms and there's places in it to attach additional stoves. But the 'new' wing (added c 1930) which had two other bedrooms upstairs had no place for doing that because the chimney in that section of the house had been taken for the oil burner. We also have a little one room story and a half house in back of our house which was the summer kitchen. DH put in a chimney for another Franklin stove out there when he put plumbing in. When he was a kid, he helped his dad build a house which included a fieldstone faced fireplace. So installing a fireplace isn't impossible for a reasonably handy person. But I do worry about chimney fires from creosote build up and/or birds nests and debris in the chimney. DH thinks he can sweep the chimneys and make them safe himself. During the first gas crisis in the 70s dh decided that we would heat the house with wood instead of that expensive oil. We used a fan to force the air from the stove downstairs into the dining room and other rooms in the house. Our house backs up to a large tract of woods, and there were plenty of downed trees in there. So -- DH was out with a chain saw - snow on the ground. DS who was about 8 at the time with him DH stepped on a tree, and his foot slipped down until his knee was caught in the tree crotch where it was held, and he fell sideways. He sent DS in to get DD#2 who was writing a paper for biology (senior in HS - DD#1 was in college, and I was at the regional band competition with DD#3) so that she could help him into the house. DD#2 thought he just wanted her to help carry wood and told DS that she'd be out in a little while. DS brought that message back to DH. DH sent a more forceful message to DD#2, and she came out to help him into the house, and then drove him down to the clinic on the base. Incidentally he refused crutches because he said he didn't need them, and when I got home, he was laid out on the bed and couldn't even get to the bathroom, so I had to drive down to pick up the crutches after all. That was the end of heating with wood. > But, a lot of folks around here are going to wood stoves. They're kinda > neat, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in > the backwoods part of my property). IL's had a wood stove for many years. I hate to think what kind of air I was breathing in that house, because it gets covered in soot. MIL cleaned often, more often than she would have needed to if she didn't have a wood stove. Once they moved, she was so happy to have a gas fireplace to replace it. It was her opinion that wood stoves made the house much dirtier. >> But, a lot of folks around here are going to wood stoves. They're kinda >> neat, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > replace it. It was her opinion that wood stoves made the house much > dirtier. Getting a good woodstove fire burning is an art, and if you do it right, there isn't much smoke, and you should never have soot in the house. If you do, you're doing it wrong! The only real mess from it is the bits of bark that fall off the logs onto the floor, and a broom takes care of that. IMO the oil burner was much dirtier. We don't have a basement so it's in the utility room off the kitchen, and I hated the smell and the fine black soot from the oil burner. > IL's had a wood stove for many years. I hate to think what kind of air I > was breathing in that house, because it gets covered in soot. MIL cleaned > often, more often than she would have needed to if she didn't have a wood > stove. Once they moved, she was so happy to have a gas fireplace to replace > it. It was her opinion that wood stoves made the house much dirtier. My mom is of the same opinion. They have a furnace that is oil/wood/coal as well as a wood stove. >> >Hmmm! =A0"Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to >> >children are appropriate...." [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >of 5 different kids who were breastfed 2+ years, and their exceptional >talents, good behavior, etc., No matter how much hoo-haa you put around your ad, it's still an ad. It's a extremely common method - get chatty, then start talking only about what you want to sell. The other extremly common method is to shift addy's and add a *second* "person" to the discussion to make you look more legit. It's all very transparent and stupid. GO AWAY. Banty > The other extremly common method is to shift addy's and add a *second* "person" > to the discussion to make you look more legit. > > It's all very transparent and stupid. > > GO AWAY. Has no one yet whois'd this pair? You are tempting me! >You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking >several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ >breastfeeding" quartet of groups, No Ed, I haven't missed any of your SPAM posts. You and Suzanne have now pissed me off to the point that I've reported both of you and I have never done that. I can safely say that I would not recommend your product to a mother if her life depended on it. Wonderful sales tactics you two have. Buh-bye. Nan >>You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking >>several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I can safely say that I would not recommend your product to a mother >if her life depended on it. Wonderful sales tactics you two have. ::::shhhhhh:::: I think he/she/them/it actually thinks lives depend on it.. Banty >>>You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking >>>several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Banty THAT IS CORRECT!!!!! If you do NOT USE MY breast pump you are a HORRRRIBLE mother that would rather STICK THE KIDS DOWN THE HALL to SCREAM THEIR HEADS OFF!!!!! Ack. What idiots. Nan > ::::shhhhhh:::: > > I think he/she/them/it actually thinks lives depend on it.. > > Banty Shhhhh.... In fact they do... http://tropej.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/2/125 >> ::::shhhhhh:::: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Shhhhh.... In fact they do... >http://tropej.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/2/125 Toldja!! So, "Suzanne" - your calling is in the Peace Corps, the UN, or other NGU's in Africa. :::wait:::: ::::wait:::: You still here? Rather try to sell to Usenetters, huh. Banty >>> ::::shhhhhh:::: >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Banty The Usenet (predominantly Americans and tech advanced countries) should be left behind? ;-) > >> ::::shhhhhh:::: > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > You still here? Rather try to sell to Usenetters, Well, there are statistics that demonstrate unequivocably that we are the most gullible audience ever to enter the internet. Right? >> You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking >> several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Buh-bye. Uh-oh....now they've been Nan-ed <eg>. RDH. SignatureMo (gotta go, I have just two hours left before my deadline of OU bashing transpires...) >>> You must've come in a bit late, Nan, because you're overlooking >>> several of my first messages in the "mothers/kids/pregnancy/ [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > RDH. EXpires. Duh. SignatureMo EdAugusts schrieb: > Thank You! Case Dismissed! Oh, so you're being Judge, advocat and defendant. Cool. I didn't know that's how the sytem worked in the US. cu nicole > P.S., I think you're wrong about the evolution of ' misc.kids.' These > group names haven't changed in at least 18 years...since before there > was a 'web'. Good heavens, does your arrogance know no bounds? Misc.kids.pregnancy was not created until 1994. Several of us were around then to remember it, not to mention that anyone (including yourself) is capable of googling and verifying when it was established. As far as the rules on commercial posts goes, it's clear as can be to the rest of us that your postings are nothing more than advertisements thinly (not to mention badly) disguised as legitimate postings. You have no interest in anything around here except hawking your products, and the rest of us aren't too stupid to figure it out. "Discussion and reviews of products" happens by disinterested parties, not by those who stand to gain financially from the product's use. But really, if you just want to land in a bunch of killfiles and antagonize any potential customers who might have been out there, and jeopardize your relationship with your ISP, go ahead, knock yourself out. Or, if you have any intention of playing nicely in the sandbox, you could take your posts to misc.kids.consumers where they belong. Best wishes, Ericka >> P.S., I think you're wrong about the evolution of ' misc.kids.' >> These group names haven't changed in at least 18 years...since before [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > anyone (including yourself) is capable of googling and > verifying when it was established. Ericka, Far from being a newbie, I used to post quite a bit on misc.kids, back when there was only one misc.kids, and as far as I can see, misc.kids itself is still around. What happened was not a "name change" at all. It was a split off into two related groups. That's entirely different. S. Signature=== Visit my fun corner of the world :-) http://www.SuzCorner.com >>> P.S., I think you're wrong about the evolution of ' misc.kids.' >>> These group names haven't changed in at least 18 years...since before [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > see, misc.kids itself is still around. What happened was not a "name > change" at all. It was a split off into two related groups. Um, where did I say any different? Banty also made clear that m.k.p evolved out of another group (m.k), though if you go back and look at the CFV you will see that there were more than two groups involved in the misc.kids.* reorganization. Either way, the name "misc.kids.pregnancy" didn't even exist 18 years ago, and the m.k FAQ applies, just as Banty said, because it is the "lead" group in the m.k.* hierarchy. Frankly, however, this is all in the angels dancing on pinheads category, as the main point is that advertising (which this clearly is) is not acceptable in these newsgroups, and being insulting and arrogant (which the thin veneer of "content" is, even construed in the best possible light) is unwelcome just about anywhere regardless of the charter. Ignoring netiquette is poor manners, and so is being insulting to group members, and if *you* care about your brand image, you would be more concerned about the ugly light cast on it by your surrogate's behavior than you would be about defending his inappropriate behavior. Best wishes, Ericka [snip] > Ericka, Far from being a newbie, I used to post quite a bit on > misc.kids, back when there was only one misc.kids, and as far as I can [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > S. There was both a name change and a split. In about 1987, almost every newsgroup in existance at the time changed its' name. Net.kids changed its' name to misc.kids. Im about 1994, misc.kids split into several newsgroups. SignaturePenny Gaines usenetting since 1993 I really don't understand why everyone is feeding this person's self-importance. Just kf the idiot and forget he/it/they exist. /shrug Angela /back to lurk mode > I really don't understand why everyone is feeding this person's > self-importance. Just kf the idiot and forget he/it/they exist. /shrug It's probably fun to have one of those damn spammers who actually talks back and he's getting spanked for the sins of all his ilk. Mind you, Ed lost me with his over use of caps, there's only a certain amount of eye-pain I'll put up with for the entertainment value. > I really don't understand why everyone is feeding this person's > self-importance. Just kf the idiot and forget he/it/they exist. /shrug > > Angela Oh but angela! It is more fun to prod them and see how far they are going to take these specious arguements. Entertainment value alone makes these threads fascinating reading! /me offers popcorn and tim tams Now, if you want to talk about kids......DS is turning 13, has a broken arm [cast of course], and is going into seventh grade, homeschooled, in the fall. I'm a crazy woman doing various crafts and life goes on. /me offers coffee too since it is sunrise in Vermont. So, who else thinks this is a highly amusing thread and is ready to pull up a lounge chair with me? A, fresh from travian > /back to lurk mode >> I really don't understand why everyone is feeding this person's >> self-importance. Just kf the idiot and forget he/it/they exist. /shrug [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to take these specious arguements. Entertainment value alone makes these > threads fascinating reading! /eyes the dusty pointy stick in the corner This is true. > /me offers popcorn and tim tams Accepts offer. > Now, if you want to talk about kids......DS is turning 13, has a broken > arm > [cast of course], and is going into seventh grade, homeschooled, in the > fall. I'm a crazy woman doing various crafts and life goes on. DS is 10 now. We got his broken arm out of the way when he was 4. Your's must be a late bloomer. Either that or my DS was just very precocious at that age. lol I'm still working for HP and finally biting the bullett and upgrading to Vista. Prolly this weekend. Backing up my pc is not going to be fun. /sigh DD is making me a Gramma in Sept. Trying to figure out how to get back to Florida for the big event. Gonna be spendy with fuel prices the way they are. My mom is coming out for a visit in July for a week before going on to Astoria to visit her sister, then we are going out to Astoria for a few days at the end of July. First vacation we've had in over 2 years. Looking forward to it. One of my cousins is out there too. I haven't seen her in 30 years. ugh! That makes me feel old. > /me offers coffee too since it is sunrise in Vermont. > > So, who else thinks this is a highly amusing thread and is ready to pull > up > a lounge chair with me? Wish I could. Got to get the boy up and ready for school and a field trip today and then off to work for me. > A, fresh from travian >> >> /back to lurk mode > DS is 10 now. We got his broken arm out of the way when he was 4. Your's > must be a late bloomer. Either that or my DS was just very precocious at [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Wish I could. Got to get the boy up and ready for school and a field trip > today and then off to work for me. Wow, ten years old. Just as DS is pushing thirteen and I can't quite grasp that, I cannot imagine him that old [and that tall!]. Or you being a grandma. wow. It sounds like Idaho has agreed with you. I find Vermont wearing on me and would love to go back to a warm climate. Husband, otoh, really likes Vermont, and there are the original reasons we came here: my parents and DS. So, I am staying here in this cold place at least for a few years. Don't have a lot to talk about these days, at least stuff I will leave behind me on a server for ever for others to goggle. I will probably soon slip back into lurk as travian restarts the server next week. We will see. Sorry, not in the best mood today I guess..... back to lurkishness until I'm nicer to be around. A >I really don't understand why everyone is feeding this person's >self-importance. Just kf the idiot and forget he/it/they exist. /shrug > >Angela > >/back to lurk mode Yeah, he's an idiot, but the group has been kinda slow lately.... It's a bit entertaining :-) Nan >[snip] >> Ericka, Far from being a newbie, I used to post quite a bit on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >In about 1987, almost every newsgroup in existance at the time changed >its' name. Net.kids changed its' name to misc.kids. Ah, yes. The Great Renaming: http://uncommon-sense.net/interests/usenet/renaming-faq/ >Im about 1994, misc.kids split into several newsgroups. SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >> >>> There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Hmmm! "Reviews and discussions of commercial products relating to >children are appropriate...." Which, I must point out, would NOT include the sellers of the products pushing them. >Thank You! Case Dismissed! > >P.S., I think you're wrong about the evolution of ' misc.kids.' These >group names haven't changed in at least 18 years...since before there >was a 'web'. Look up the Great Renaming. I think Wikipedia has a decent article on it (or part of an article). And Usenet exists quite apart from the "web" and predates Google, DejaNews, and even the old webcrawlers. Banty > There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting people > for spam", but not one person yet has yet posted a link. Any of ya > actually got one? <tick tick tick.... TIME'S UP> Do a search for Usenet guidelines. You're smart, you invented a breastpump, I'm sure you know how to use Google. <tick tick tick...TIMES UP> You lose. > What I see is a lot of brow beating of a guy who posts pregnancy and > breastfeeding related articles, and JUST because he's a friend to me he > also chooses to include a link to a great breastfeeding related product - > namely the breast pump I patented. Nobody gives a sh.t who you are. We aren't hounding Ed because he's your friend. We aren't hounding Ed because he's a guy. We're hounding Ed because he's advertising on a Usenet newsgroup. After we specifically told him that it wasn't allowed. > I'll tell you this -- when I needed a breast pump like this one, there was > no such thing. Knowing how badly I needed it, and how my situation was > certainly not unique from other mothers, I made it happen. And I did that > as much for the betterment of the lives of other mothers than for anything > else. That's nice. Good for you. I hope you sell a lot of your pumps. But not here. Go buy advertising like a real company, and stop trying to get something for free from a place where advertising is not allowed nor acceptable. This is not an acceptable place to post your ads. While we may seem like a ripe pool of potential customers, it is not acceptable to advertise her. > Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex > watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. > > So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? I'm going to type this really slowly, Suzanne, so pay close attention. Because those ads are posted by spambots. Replying to them is futile. You, and your dear clone Ed, are real people. The rules of the group have been explained to you, both in simple terms and in very clear terms. And both of you continue to flaunt the rules and norms of this group, despite the loud protests of the members of the group, and advertise your product. > I can tell you from personally knowing Ed, that he is absolutely terrific > around kids, and he does indeed care a lot about the welfare of babies as > well as their mothers. That's nice. > He is doing a favor to you and any mother interested by making you aware > of a great product that makes mothers' lives easier. If you're not > interested, then fine, skip to the next topic heading you are interested > in -- just like all the vioxx and Rolex ads you skip over without > following up on ad nauseum. No, he is not doing me a favor. He would do me, and many of the women of this newsgroup a favor if he went away like we asked him to. Instead, he continues to advertise your product, and then you come over to defend your clone and continue to advertise your product. Do us a favor, go away. > But you seem to be oblivious to the fact that your following up to Ed's > posts indicates to me that you ARE interested in what Ed has to say, > whether or not you like to admit it or not. But how transparent can you > be? Do I smell envy that you aren't also connected with such a great > product for mothers? No. This isn't envy. This is anger. Anger that you're clouding up a great group with your bullshit arguments about why you should be able to post your crap advertisements here. Regardless of what we say, you continue. You are rude, and I would not recommend your product to anyone. In fact, I would recommend against it, to anyone. Repeatedly. > Didn't you know -- You can be. > ;-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Suzanne. I wouldn't work for a sleaze like you if it was the last job on earth. And I wouldn't buy a product from a sleaze like you, nor would I tell anyone else about it, except to tell them what a couple of sleazey people run the company, and how rude they are to totally disregard the Usenet FAQ and member wishes. SignatureJamie Clark > Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex > watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. > > So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? We do. But all of it is auto-generated spam. There's no -person- there. So there's nothing to do except killfile it, which we do. > I can tell you from personally knowing Ed, that he is absolutely > terrific around kids, and he does indeed care a lot about the welfare of > babies as well as their mothers. What does this have to do with anything? > He is doing a favor to you and any > mother interested by making you aware of a great product that makes > mothers' lives easier. Selling a product != doing us a favor. > But you seem to be oblivious to the fact that your following up to Ed's > posts indicates to me that you ARE interested in what Ed has to say, > whether or not you like to admit it or not. But how transparent can you > be? Do I smell envy that you aren't also connected with such a great > product for mothers? Wow, you're really new to Usenet, aren't you? I love the smell of roasted newbie in the morning. Michelle Flutist > Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex > watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. > > So tell me, why is that? Why don't any of you object to that? Most readers ignore one post wonders OR report them to their ISP's for spamming. When a repeater arrives then they are usually told, in no uncertain terms, that they are violating the norms of the group. Doesn't matter how many times he protests or gets his friends to protest, pushing a product that is for sale is spamming. Now, if he wants to join in the OTHER conversations in the group and talk on those topics and only leave the product info as a sig line, well that becomes a different thing entirely. Then he becomes a part of the group, leaves the info politely available for those who might wish to use it, and that is fine. The people here are trying to educate him to that norm. He can choose to listen or not. The group can choose to accept him, ignore him, report him, or not. A >> Nobody here seems to object to all the vioxx, celebrex, fako Rolex >> watches, and other garbage going on here that truly IS spam. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >trying to educate him to that norm. He can choose to listen or not. The >group can choose to accept him, ignore him, report him, or not. Absolutely. Then people who *want to*, can take the intiative to investigate a product. Banty > There are a lot of vague references to said charters and "reporting > people for spam", but not one person yet has yet posted a link. Any of > ya actually got one? <tick tick tick.... TIME'S UP> Well as you use giganews.com you may as well read the AUP: Net Etiquette and Abuse Each newsgroup can be considered as a separate "community", where those who regularly use the newsgroup have standards for what is appropriate and what is not. These standards can vary from one group to the next. Many groups have written charters and FAQs that reflect a consensus of those who regularly use the newsgroup. You should always read posts in a newsgroup to learn what is considered appropriate before posting to that newsgroup. For a listing of charters and FAQs on various subjects, be sure to check out www.usenetfaqguides.com. At Giganews, we would like every member to have the best experience possible with the newsgroups. We do not, however, wish that to be at the expense of others. The newsgroups are comprised of people from diverse backgrounds. When communicating with people on the newsgroups, it is best to keep in mind that there are many other people that read what you post. Please consider the views and feelings of everyone who might read your posts and give them the same consideration and respect as you would like to receive yourself. # Commercial Posts Commercial posts are frowned upon in nearly every newsgroup. Most groups do not welcome contributions from a business or commercial website. # Promotional Posts Promoting a business, a website, or an organization will usually be considered as spam, in nearly every newsgroup. This can even include inviting visitors to a 'personal', 'public service', or charitable website. Crossposting A few binary newsgroups, such as certain music groups, encourage posting to more than one group at the same time, as long as the content is appropriate to each newsgroup. The majority of binary groups and almost all text groups, however, discourage any form of crossposting. Please consider that a thread in a text group may begin as appropriate to two newsgroups, but followups may soon become "off topic" in one of the groups Abuse Reports Reports of abuse can be sent to abuse@giganews.com Oh, and look. A handy e-mail link Every time you cross post, God kills a kitten Signaturescrum (\_/) Procrastinator bunny says: ( . .) 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