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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / August 2008changes and all
we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why i am here. thank you for respecting that. seems life changes. and sometimes not in ways we anticipate or desire. mine is and i am struggling. married for nearly sixteen years now. one wonderful child, turning 13 soon. husband injured and disabled when DS was an infant left me the breadwinner and eventually the one who does most of whatever needs to be done around the house. ah, yes, some of you are recognizing me. sometime along the way i became the maid, the housemate, and lost my status as wife. no tenderness, no touch, no real conversation about what matters. i stuffed it all somewhere deep inside and kept going. then, last winter, the dam began to crack. depression set in and i had to acknowledge it. meds. therpaist. but i couldn't get him to see one. i couldn't get him to talk. i've become emo. have to keep going have to present reasonably to the world and my family, but the emotions rush through me and leave me in a dazed and shattered place daily. i finally got through to husband some of what was going on through email. i asked that there be some sort of help in maintaining the house, reducing the clutter that has taken over as i have slowly given up. told him i am tired of working all day and coming home to working just to be able to find the top of the dining room table so i can eat dinner. there was some effort. and it has waned. told him i wanted some closeness, some indication that he does truly care for me instead of his pr0n. three years without being touched in any way kind of makes you wonder you know. well, a little effort there, sporadic, but a little. and i tried to move the conversation into the real world. to talk about what it is that lies between us. he has come to blame it all on a computer game i play. an mmog. i started play last fall. he refuses to even talk about what happened prior to last fall. everything is my fault and my cessation of playing that game will cure it all. we won't go into my finally understanding how he has controlled me over the years. how i have no friends, no life, nothing outside of what he will engage in with me. which isn't much outside of work now. my only friends are on line, through that computer game. i am not allowed to mention that game, never have been allowed to, not allowed to talk about those friends. so he demanded i stop play. he shut off his computer last thurs. until that happens. um, yeah, like that hurts me. but, after talking things through with my therapist i have quietly stepped away from the game. i am giving it through next monday morning. he can step up and actually do something now, or we have our clear demonstration that the game is not the issue. and i am alone. this is a very brief notation of what has been building for many many long months, in fact years. there is more not said here than said. bare glimpse of my world. flame me if you will. i am no longer the nicest person on usenet. i am an angry, emotive person and i am seeking a little support aside from the flames that will almost certainly come. call me sparrow {{{{{{{{{{Sparrow}}}}}}}}}} Do you have my email? Its changed so many times. dizzys mamma at g mail dot com. Please write me if you need to. Angela > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why i am > here. thank you for respecting that. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > call me sparrow > {{{{{{{{{{Sparrow}}}}}}}}}} > > Do you have my email? Its changed so many times. dizzys mamma at g mail > dot com. Please write me if you need to. > > Angela Thank you Angela. I did not have that one. Later tonight, when I get over the shopping trip I just came back from. Thank you! sparrow > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why > i am here. thank you for respecting that. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > i've become emo. have to keep going have to present reasonably to > the world and my family, One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the world or your family except who and what you really are. If they love you, great. If they don't, then they never did. Time to find new friends. > but the emotions rush through me and leave > me in a dazed and shattered place daily. i finally got through to [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > call me sparrow I am new to this group. I don't know you. But I will observe that you sound strong, sensible and capable. With those skills in hand, I wish you the fastest route to recovery, happiness and the love you deserve. Best wishes. Stephanie > One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the world or > your family except who and what you really are. If they love you, great. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > strong, sensible and capable. With those skills in hand, I wish you the > fastest route to recovery, happiness and the love you deserve. thank you for your kindness stephanie. It is good to meet you. I have been a regular most of the last um, 11 years or so. Someone, perhaps dorothy, banty or lee, may remember better than i on that, although it is far from important. In those years I have slowly lost the friends I had, with our move across country putting the final blow to any I had left, for since we've arrived here 3.5 years ago I've not been able to keep any....my husbands' habits have made it difficult, especially coupled with my shyness, to make and then retain friends. I have become isolated and lonely. now that i'm so emotive I find myself leaking the pain, anger, depression at times where it is far from appropriate, like staff meetings at work. In my brief post earlier I was far from clear on that. But that is why I must find ways to put a lid on the whole thing while I learn to live with emotions all over again. Thank you for your kind words. I no longer see much in myself that is positive. The words of others ring hollow to me, but I soak them up in hopes that maybe some of them are accurate, that maybe there is still something within me that is of value. forgive me, i give you a taste of where i have wandered to these days, and we've never properly met. forgive me. may better days find us all soon. sparrow >> One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the >> world or your family except who and what you really are. If they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > thank you for your kindness stephanie. It is good to meet you. Seems as though we may be neighbors of a sort. Where in VT are you? I am Northish, in Franklin County. > >> One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the > >> world or your family except who and what you really are. If they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Seems as though we may be neighbors of a sort. Where in VT are you? I am > Northish, in Franklin County. wow, we are neighbors of sorts. i am in windsor county, currently working in brattleboro in windham county. i'm waiting for a aug 14 job interview that is much closer to home. but i get up your way often since I work for the state and end up in meetings in waterbury very regularly. lol. another vermonter, who'd have thunk it! there aren't that many of us on usenet! what do you do? tell me about your kids, if you have any. how did you find usenet? we seem to be a vanishing breed these days! sparrow >>>> One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the >>>> world or your family except who and what you really are. If they [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > sparrow I am a stay-at-home and homeschooling Mom of 2 little kids. I am a recovering geek (former software engineer) and have been on usenet for a while. I really only go to misc.kids anymore though since a lot of the groups I used to visit are over-run with trolls and whatnot. I LOVE Vermont. I am not native. I am from NH which, though a neighbor, seems like another planet! > I am a stay-at-home and homeschooling Mom of 2 little kids. I am a > recovering geek (former software engineer) and have been on usenet for a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I LOVE Vermont. I am not native. I am from NH which, though a neighbor, > seems like another planet! I am sure Lee has already told you the differences between vt and nh since she is there. I grew up in vt, moved away as I got my degree, and finally returned, via florida, 3.5 years ago. We have one son, age nearly 13 [eek!] whom we have homeschooled from the git go. He is entering seventh grade this year. Husband does the homeschool stuff, I do the work for money stuff as well as ninety percent of the housework and some of the yard work. How old are your little ones? sparrow >> I am a stay-at-home and homeschooling Mom of 2 little kids. I am a >> recovering geek (former software engineer) and have been on usenet [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > sparrow 7 and 4. I homeschool them too. How I would LOVE my DH to do most of the house and yard work! Not really, actually. The kids and I do the housework. We are trying to add the yard work to our work. But since the kids and I are home all day, and the ones making the vast majority of the mess, we do the vast majority of the picking up. I cannot quite envision seventh grade. So I take one year, and even one day at a time. >> One and only comment, you do not need to present anything to the >> world or your family except who and what you really are. If they [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > must find ways to put a lid on the whole thing while I learn to live > with emotions all over again. Well honestly, that sucks. It makes a lot more sense what you mean now though. > Thank you for your kind words. I no longer see much in myself that is > positive. I do. I don't even know you, and I do. You held your family together through illness and loneliness and godonlyknows what all else. That's what depression does, it sucks your will to do anything in whatever way it can, by stealing yoru esteem, by stealing your energy. And if you have been suffering in lonliness, that only makes it worse. > The words of others ring hollow to me, but I soak them up > in hopes that maybe some of them are accurate, that maybe there is > still something within me that is of value. Well as long as it takes. As long as it takes. You did mention you are counseling or therapy of some kind? Good On You. >forgive me, i give you a > taste of where i have wandered to these days, and we've never > properly met. forgive me. may better days find us all soon. > > sparrow You did not do anything wrong so there is nothing to forgive. > Well honestly, that sucks. It makes a lot more sense what you mean now > though. yeah, my first post wasn't very specific in many things. It is hard to write it all down, especially quickly and especially in any way that another person can make sense of. > I do. I don't even know you, and I do. You held your family together through > illness and loneliness and godonlyknows what all else. That's what > depression does, it sucks your will to do anything in whatever way it can, > by stealing yoru esteem, by stealing your energy. And if you have been > suffering in lonliness, that only makes it worse. Thank you for that, and for understanding. My windows to the rest of humanity and the world are kind of dark with disuse, covered with cobwebs. peering through them i see shadows of movement, enticing me but scaring me. these wounds are deep and there are fresh ones. > > The words of others ring hollow to me, but I soak them up > > in hopes that maybe some of them are accurate, that maybe there is > > still something within me that is of value. > > Well as long as it takes. As long as it takes. You did mention you are > counseling or therapy of some kind? Good On You. Yes, it helps. Talking helps. With my friends from trav, with you all. maybe some day i'll have a rl friend too. thank you for your kindnesses. sparrow > and i am alone. this is a very brief notation of what has been building for > many many long months, in fact years. there is more not said here than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > call me sparrow *hugs* how could I flame you when I know exactly how you feel. Vicki (who still can not get used to this name) > *hugs* how could I flame you when I know exactly how you feel. > > Vicki (who still can not get used to this name) Vicki - Forgive me for not recognizing you when I believe I ought. Thank you for the hugs. I need all I can get these days.....but as my friend from trav has told me, I will bend, not break, although sometimes i almost feel I'd rather the breaking. sparrow >> *hugs* how could I flame you when I know exactly how you feel. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > sparrow I live in wi. I am cute and adorable and have 2 cute adorable kids. Vicki (I am a crummy speller and have no grammar skills) >>> *hugs* how could I flame you when I know exactly how you >>> feel. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Vicki (I am a crummy speller and have no grammar skills) and you really ought to live in NH ;) so there! and there were no spelling or grammar errors in your post, so i bet you're a pod person & not really you. lee  SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. > and you really ought to live in NH ;) > so there! LOL my mom agrees with you. :P > and there were no spelling or grammar errors in your post, so > i bet you're a pod person & not really you. > lee Finally have a spell checker. Hey on another note, I got my license today. Only took 4 tries. Tori > > and you really ought to live in NH ;) > > so there! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hey on another note, I got my license today. Only took 4 tries. congrats girl! they dont ask y ou how many tries when you drive down the road, just did you pass! woot! >> and you really ought to live in NH ;) >> so there! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Hey on another note, I got my license today. Only took 4 tries. Good for you.... I remember you were nervous about that. SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>> and you really ought to live in NH ;) >>> so there! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > Good for you.... I remember you were nervous about that. Yes I was. I took my first trip to walmart tonight by myself. It was really neat. I got a little lost on the way home as I took a back road home and I missed my turn. Thankfully I knew where I was I just needed to get over a street. I just went a bit too far north :P Tori > Yes I was. I took my first trip to walmart tonight by myself. It was > really neat. I got a little lost on the way home as I took a back road > home and I missed my turn. Thankfully I knew where I was I just needed > to get over a street. I just went a bit too far north :P > > Tori Yeah! Then you have survived your first outing, got lost, punted and made it home fine. That is all to the good. GO girl! >> and there were no spelling or grammar errors in your post, >> so i bet you're a pod person & not really you. > > Finally have a spell checker. likely story... > Hey on another note, I got my license today. Only took 4 > tries. it took my older brother four tries to get his as well. i don't think that's uncommon. lee SignatureLast night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why i am > here. thank you for respecting that. I'm so sorry about your life issues! I have "known" you for what seems like a long time. I have hs'd the kids for years also so I always was interested in what you had to say about that when it came up. My oldest is 13 now, it makes me feel so old but but lucky :) And it's such a cool age, I am loving it. It's not scary like so many moms make it out to be. Of course, there's a few years left... And my "baby" will legally be in kindergarten. I'll be hs'ing two middle schoolers and a kindergartener. WOW! My mother got re-married to a man 5 years ago and he gave up physical marital activity a few months after the wedding. She says there is nothing now, not even hugs. I can see how much it is hurting her and she is having to make a decision now whether she can handle living as brother/sister type relationship or if she thinks she can end it. She feels all sorts of guilt at the thought of leaving. I can imagine how much it would hurt to also have to go to work and then come home at the end of the day and work at home. My husband works and I don't, but I do take care of most of the child-related things(I do NOT care to take them fishing! that's HIS job) and most of the housework, the finances, and the family issues that come up(which is mostly his family). I also make sure everyone eats. I would feel very low if he had to come home and do all teh housework and everything else, on top of working for money. Soon everyone will be old enough to where I'll be comfortable leaving them home together longer than an hour or two, then I'll hopefully be working(am planning to be a certified birth doula and someday a LC) Anyway this got really long. I hate for people to hurt and it makes me talk to them alot. A big issue contributing to my mom's depression is the lack of affection of any kind from her husband and so your post touched a nerve. Marie > I'm so sorry about your life issues! I have "known" you for what seems like > a long time. I have hs'd the kids for years also so I always was interested [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > affection of any kind from her husband and so your post touched a nerve. > Marie Marie, Your comments strike a chord here. Your mom and I should probably talk. I can just not imagine being married without the comfort of touch. Sex, well, hey, sometimes that fades in and out of a couples' life, but touch, a caress, the comfort and caring it relays, is so necessary to the health of a relationship. Just holding hands, or snuggling, ah I could go on at length. I won't. You know, you understand. Thank you for listening and caring. That is so deeply appreciated. sparrow >and i am alone. this is a very brief notation of what has been building for >many many long months, in fact years. there is more not said here than >said. bare glimpse of my world. flame me if you will. i am no longer the >nicest person on usenet. i am an angry, emotive person and i am seeking a >little support aside from the flames that will almost certainly come. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I had no idea that you were going through all this, hon. I consider you a good friend online and my email is always open. I cannot imagine anyone flaming you for the way you feel given your situation. Is your email different? Do you still have my email? SignatureDorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) > > I had no idea that you were going through all this, hon. I consider > you a good friend online and my email is always open. I cannot > imagine anyone flaming you for the way you feel given your situation. Thank you dorothy. I treasure every single hug that comes my way. I believe my email is unchanged. I have a new computer so much of the email addy's I had are lost. sparrow > Is your email different? Do you still have my email? > and i am alone. this is a very brief notation of what has been building for > many many long months, in fact years. there is more not said here than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > call me sparrow ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Awful situation. I'm here most of the time if you just want to rant or talk, I think you have my details. Not dissimilar to our problems, except possibly we do know we care, and not quite brother / sister. Marc > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > know we care, and not quite brother / sister. > Marc <<<<<<Marc>>>>>> Thank you. How are you managing to stay sane? I feel like i have gone about over the brink here. each day is a day i must make myself put my feet one in front of the other. sleep? what is that? I try, but i waken often, despite the antidepressant, and do well to get five hours a night. sigh. time to dress for work....thank you for caring, for responding, for being there. I will be able to check back in in about 12.5 hours... sparrow >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > sparrow Hi, Sorry Saturday hurly burly. I hope you have a good time with Lee. Stay sane? Mainly too tired from working odd hours. And sleep has not been a problem, in fact I probably sleep too much. I found anti-depressants to actually be more of a problem than the problems that caused me to accept taking them. So, I haven't been back on them, although I could possibly be there. DH probably is also in the same boat, but he won't go there. One thing I have been doing over the last year or two is making sure we spend about an hour in each others company each night. So even if he hides behind the newspaper, or engrossed in some cricket game, conversation does result which releases some tension. Sometimes I think a robot could live my life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Marc > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Marc I did have a great time meeting Lee and Boo. She was so much like I expected she'd be, and Boo is a great kid. So inquisitive and sweet, very interested in things. I had a good time and only wish I'd had more time to spend with her. I hope she enjoyed herself as well. Your comments about make sure you spend time with your husband while he does things esounds with me. I don't recll if I said husband has demanded that I stop playing my mmog, but he did. And I have put it on hold. He didn't seem to notice after a day or so so I told him. His response was oh, i hadn't noticed. Now, three days later, he has done nothing different. Mind you he had not said he would, but he intimated he would behave differently. sigh. I am running this 'experiment' until monday. If there is no obvious change on his part i am returning to my game. The anti depressants help me a lot. I have the energy to do the things that need to get done rather than simply sitting around in a dense fog. Some have told me that the same medication has caused them to gain weight. maybe i'm lucky, but i haven't. Sleep though remains an elusive event, found in snatches and best sought after I've pushed myself to the limits of endurance. The anger i have boiling inside is not going to allow me to accept the type of relationship you have forged. The control he has used to limit my life, my access to people whom I might have forged friendships with, must end. It has gotten to the point that recently when I went outside to mow because his back was hurting that he sent DS out to watch me the whole time to make sure I dumped the clippings in the right place. They were communicating back and forth via family radios, discussing what i was doing. And that is but one sample of what I'm dealing with. I could go on and on but do not want to just dump light that right now. Morning chores call, it is saturday and that means housework high hurdles followed by yard work. sparrow > I did have a great time meeting Lee and Boo. She was so much like I > expected she'd be, and Boo is a great kid. So inquisitive and sweet, very > interested in things. I had a good time and only wish I'd had more time to > spend with her. I hope she enjoyed herself as well. Sounds wonderful. > Your comments about make sure you spend time with your husband while he does > things esounds with me. I don't recll if I said husband has demanded that Well, I am doing cross stitch too. It is only an hour or two. But if you don't spend time in the same space there can't be anything going on. It was a lot worse before I started this. > I stop playing my mmog, but he did. And I have put it on hold. He didn't > seem to notice after a day or so so I told him. His response was oh, i > hadn't noticed. Now, three days later, he has done nothing different. Mind > you he had not said he would, but he intimated he would behave differently. Um, would have got my goat too. It does take time to turn the boat, too. However, if the other partner is intractable.... > sigh. Yes > I am running this 'experiment' until monday. If there is no obvious change > on his part i am returning to my game. > > The anti depressants help me a lot. I have the energy to do the things that Good > need to get done rather than simply sitting around in a dense fog. Some ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > have told me that the same medication has caused them to gain weight. maybe > i'm lucky, but i haven't. Sleep though remains an elusive event, found in > snatches and best sought after I've pushed myself to the limits of > endurance. > > The anger i have boiling inside is not going to allow me to accept the type Yes, that is where we might be in a different boat. Pr0n is not involved, and DH does have a lot of stresses. About another two years before we can consider him telling the job to take a hike, if he wants to. No, for him changing jobs is not an option for several reasons. > of relationship you have forged. The control he has used to limit my life, Not sure what you mean, but I'll leave that > my access to people whom I might have forged friendships with, must end. It Yes, that would be intolerable. DH is controlling in that he needs to control his environment, mainly from habit nowadays rather than very real reasons that lead him to develop those behaviours. We have fought many a battle royal in the past that he does not attempt to control what I do, and it may cause him to have to sometimes step out of his comfort zone and he has learnt to deal with it. lol, he often recalls those times very fondly, lol. > has gotten to the point that recently when I went outside to mow because his > back was hurting that he sent DS out to watch me the whole time to make sure > I dumped the clippings in the right place. They were communicating back and I would have got son to do the dumping - no way is anyone co-opting my kids to be my watch dog. Mowing stopped and the shrew from hell for days but there are some things no one gets to do. > forth via family radios, discussing what i was doing. And that is but one > sample of what I'm dealing with. What DH wants to control to the nth degree he has the honour of doing it to his heart's content. Which is why he cleans the bathrooms. I realise your DH has back issues, and am sorry that the last op hasn't helped significantly (how much stress is that putting on his life?) so it may be more difficult. Stay sane? don't know if I am ;S - I have fought the battles to keep the control thing in check, and it stays on an even keel mostly except times when he is stressed. I may also be a bit older than you so some other issues are also in play. And it would help I think if I went to bed the same time as DH more often, but it may not. And just ocassionally I do see some of the other him peaking through and know we need to get more R&R into our lives. I find it difficult to get motivated as sometimes I would just like someone else to be inspiration. It is too hard to be the sole mover in any social interaction. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Marc > Well, I am doing cross stitch too. It is only an hour or two. But if you > don't spend time in the same space there can't be anything going on. It > was a lot worse before I started this. You are right. I have been trying to do that. Reading, mainly. My heart just isn't in the creative stuff right now. He mainly does what he has done all our married life: sits at his computer and reads his groups and news. If I get into doing something he might follow me, like do outside stuff if i go outside, but that is about the sum total. It *seems* to me its always been that way, but I am probably wrong and rather jaded today to see clearly. That is at least part of the problem right now. I said: > > The control he has used to limit my life, > Not sure what you mean, but I'll leave that He has made it difficult in so many ways for me to make or keep friends. He has told me outright things I am not allowed to do, that in more recent times. I doubt he recognizes it as a form of emotional abuse and battering, but it is. > Yes, that would be intolerable. DH is controlling in that he needs to > control his environment, mainly from habit nowadays rather than very [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > zone and he has learnt to deal with it. lol, he often recalls those > times very fondly, lol. Now that I recognize what has been going on I am starting to push back. For the first time in our married life I got my family to go out to a chinese restaurant last evening. Husband had been adamant for years that he hated chinese food, and had convinced DS that it was awful. When he asked last evening where i wanted to eat dinner I told him and we went. I know he made a conscious concession to do that. And, guess what, both he and DS liked their meals! 16 years to get to this point? I was too much of a push over. > I would have got son to do the dumping - no way is anyone co-opting my > kids to be my watch dog. Mowing stopped and the shrew from hell for days > but there are some things no one gets to do. I probably should have. I didn't think of that. I was so angry because the lawn hadn't been mowed for two weeks [his fault] and now he was acting like I was incapable of doing it myself and needed a twelve year old to play nanny. Anger can blind one a bit to obvious solutions. > What DH wants to control to the nth degree he has the honour of doing it > to his heart's content. Which is why he cleans the bathrooms. I realise > your DH has back issues, and am sorry that the last op hasn't helped > significantly (how much stress is that putting on his life?) so it may > be more difficult. He hates himself, from what little he has said to me. He hate his body, what he has become. He feels worthless. Those factors have been in the mix for some time. I don't know if I will ever be able to get him to return to treatment for that stuff. He tried an antidepressant briefly, but refused talk therapy. He needs to talk it out and get a perspective on things. I cannot be the therapist, but perhaps my own difficulty in remaining the pillar of strength around here might be what gets him there. Something has to, I hope. > Stay sane? don't know if I am ;S - I have fought the battles to keep the > control thing in check, and it stays on an even keel mostly except times [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > motivated as sometimes I would just like someone else to be inspiration. > It is too hard to be the sole mover in any social interaction. Lol, Marc, I think I'm the older one. doesn't really matter, because wisdom and experience do not go along with one's calendar age. I have been particularly shocked that at my age, 51, I am now coming to grips with issues that I can now trace to when I was nine. Long time festering, long time making issues. Probably will take time to unravel, if they do. Poor self esteem is a life long pattern with me, which directly feeds into why DH has been able to control me so readily, and why I am shy, and other things. oh darn, going to rain, running to pull laundry in off the line. A > Your comments about make sure you spend time with your husband while he does > things esounds with me. I don't recll if I said husband has demanded that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I am running this 'experiment' until monday. If there is no obvious change > on his part i am returning to my game. Just a couple of thoughts to ponder, for whatever they're worth: 1) Resentment on your side isn't going to go away in a day or a week, and neither is resentment on his side. If he's resentful of the time and attention you've given this game, a week of "good behavior" will likely not impress him all that much, just as you've seen him make an effort and relapse after a short period of time. That's not to say he shouldn't recognize the effort you've made and take it as an extended olive branch, but the pernicious thing about resentment is that it leaves one feeling entitled to one's discontent and suspicious of overtures. On both sides. I suspect that right or wrong, he has resentments simmering about a lot of things that are feeding his behaviors. He may or may not be able to overcome them, but no matter how much he implies that if only you weren't doing X, everything will be ok, he is not going to do a 180 just because you stop doing X. It was a process going in, and it will be a process going out (if he is willing and capable of engaging in that process). I think you set yourself up for failure if you believe that if gaming was the problem, a week of no gaming will show obvious improvements. I think even if it was a significant factor in the current situation, you'd be lucky to see even a small change after a week of no gaming. 2) You said that your in-person social network was weak. Gaming is also taking time away from building an in person social network. My personal recommendation (perhaps worth approximately what you paid for it ;-) ) is that when you go back to playing your game, you ask yourself what a healthy life would look like for you, and what role gaming would play in that life. Then, firmly limit yourself to that amount of gaming. Make sure there's time available to nurture self, friendships, family, marriage. That will probably leave gaping holes right now, but use that time to take a step, however small, in the direction of nurturing an important relationship. Do something other than gaming that nurtures yourself. Visit a friend, or sign up for an activity that might put you in the way of making a friend. Plan and do something as a family. Plan and do something with your husband. You may get pushback on the latter, and there's only so much you can do about that. Only you can decide how much time and energy you're willing to put into seeing whether he's committed to improving your relationship. At some point, things will begin to change or you will have exhausted your willingness to try. Either way, you'll have an answer at that time. 3) Since insomnia is a problem, are you using the gaming to fill that time during the night when you can't sleep? That can also get you into a very vicious cycle. Light from electronic screens (tv, computer, video games, etc.) can reset your internal clock just like daylight, and some people are more sensitive to this than others. If you're in that camp, gaming at night could be the absolute worst thing for your insomnia. Of course, that puts you in a terrible bind--between work and home/family responsibilities, when else are you supposed to play? What else are you supposed to do when you can't sleep? Why shouldn't you at least enjoy the relationships you do have online? Those are all valid issues, but I think you have to at least struggle with the possibility that the screen time is a significant factor in the insomnia (which can also be a significant factor in depression). You might even be better off scheduling game time when you normally do housework and doing housework when you can't sleep! Hang in there. This is a really rough spot to be in, and the depression and anger make it very challenging to see your way out of it or to be hopeful about the ultimate resolution. Be kind to yourself. This isn't all your fault, and it's not on your shoulders alone to fix it. Best wishes, Ericka "Ericka Kammerer" <eek@comcast.net> wrote in message > Just a couple of thoughts to ponder, for whatever they're > worth: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > situation, you'd be lucky to see even a small change after a > week of no gaming. Erica, your point is well made and the rational part of me understands and accepts it as accurate. The emotive side, the hurt and angry side fights against that understanding and demands reparations. I know, in my better moments, that this struggle is ongoing. I understand that is a normal reaction, even. What to do to make myself work towards a positive outcome is often beyond my ability to understand at this point, so much do I wage that internal war that the rest of the situation becomes lost in resentment=generated fog. Not right, not fair, but real. That i have kept my emotions bottled up for years and they are suddenly now running rampant is not helping, at least as far as I can see. But, they should not be put back in the bottle either. I need to learn to deal with them rather than hide them from me and the world. For whatever it is worth, *I* do not believe that if I am not gaming thingsw will be fix0red. The equation is much more complex and, as you saliently point out, my getting into gaming was but the more recent step in a long road. > 2) You said that your in-person social network was weak. Gaming > is also taking time away from building an in person social [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > will begin to change or you will have exhausted your willingness > to try. Either way, you'll have an answer at that time. Again, very good point, and something I've already begun to ask myself. Different reasons for those questions arising, but they are. The first question is why did I fall into gaming? Hmmmmmmm, my family asked me to play the game with them. When they stopped playing and moved onto other computer stuff, I stayed. The step back from there is what was my family doing: playing computer games. I used to be the one who would demand they stop and do something else. I got really really tired of being the one responsible for [nearly] always getting the family to do something together that did not involve electronics. I was the last one to fall into the trap. Before computer gaming what did my family do? Well, my husband has always played computer games. I realized very early on in our marriage that I was a computer widow, not a football widow. In those days he would come do things with me like body surf, work in the yard, clean house togheter with me, go visit mutual friends. After his injury that fell off somewhat. After the move to Vermont it virtually stopped. He has begun to make friends here, but he has often said he doesn't need friends he is a hermit. I have not. I work all day far from home [so anyone I meet there is a good long drive away and a long distance phone call away] and it took me until a month ago to get him to go to church. I have intermittently looked for social group things I could get involved with. Things like maybe an embroidery guild or a writers group. I don't know what it is but both here and in Florida those groups seem to be scheduled for traditional working hours. Even the few groups I see at our new church seem to be then. Where are the things for those of us who work all day? I wish I knew how to find them. > 3) Since insomnia is a problem, are you using the gaming to fill > that time during the night when you can't sleep? That can also [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > time when you normally do housework and doing housework when > you can't sleep! I was not aware of the impact of the computer screen on sleep patterns. It is possible it did effect me, although I doubt I'll know for sure. I was writing daily prior to the game, often well into the evening, and not having the insomnia problem I did as the depression became apparent. /shrug/ Whatever it is, I can say that I don't get up to play. I did that about four times, but only after not being able to fall back to sleep for some time. The game is its own stimulus, and does push wakefulness/alertness, so I stopped doing that as a potential insomnia cure pretty quickly. Now I just lay in bed and wait for sleep. I think last night I was awake at least five or six times. As to my on line relationships, aside from these few in alt.moms, I am now questioning if any of them will extend beyond game. One may, time will tell. And now I struggle with the rejection demon on top of the anger/resentment ones. In moments like these I'd rather that whole geni bottle of emotions stayed tucked away in that dark closet where it lay. Life would be far easier as a spock than a troi. Forgive me for dumping. It does seem to be what i do these days. Tell me to go away and stuff it because I'm sure it will become as tiring to you all as it does to me. > Hang in there. This is a really rough spot to be in, and the > depression and anger make it very challenging to see your way out > of it or to be hopeful about the ultimate resolution. Be kind > to yourself. This isn't all your fault, and it's not on your > shoulders alone to fix it. Thank you for all your kind, caring, and reality based words, Erika. I need friends now. Deeply I need them. And with all that I'm harping on me and my issues and my needs, I know that will try anyone's patience who takes the time to persevere. I will try to be other centered, but right now the energy seems all spent on just putting one foot in front of the other without falling victim to emotional spin out yet again. And today I'm not doing well in that regard. sparrow > "Ericka Kammerer" <eek@comcast.net> wrote in message >> Just a couple of thoughts to ponder, for whatever they're [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > back in the bottle either. I need to learn to deal with them rather than > hide them from me and the world. Absolutely, and it's going to be a messy process, and it's going to be two-steps-forward-one-step-back, and all that. It may help to focus more on the little tiny steps you can take than on the end result, which can seem so daunting at times. > For whatever it is worth, *I* do not believe that if I am not gaming thingsw > will be fix0red. Oh, I very much suspect that it won't fix things. I suspect that it's more symptom than problem, if anything. > The equation is much more complex and, as you saliently > point out, my getting into gaming was but the more recent step in a long [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > are the things for those of us who work all day? I wish I knew how to find > them. It can be tough, to be sure. Does your church have a needlework group? Mine has one that's pretty fun. It's called "Needle or Not" (because you can do needlework, or just visit if you prefer). It's in the evenings twice a month, and some of the folks meet for dinner beforehand. People do pretty much any sort of needlework (stitching, knitting, quilting, even scrapbooking sometimes). It doesn't take many people. If you could find just a few like-minded people at church, you might be able to start something like that. Are there any local needlework shops (I know, those are often a dying breed)? If there are, some of them might have a regular "stitch in." Can you get away at all? CATS died, but there's a new festival in, I think, King of Prussia, PA in the fall (I think it's called The Stitching Jubilee, and it has a website). That would be a fun weekend away. There's also Celebration of Needlework in Nashua, NH in the spring. > As to my on line relationships, aside from these few in alt.moms, I am now > questioning if any of them will extend beyond game. One may, time will > tell. That is a challenging thing with online relationships. As much as I think online relationships have some real substance to them, we also need in person relationships and people who will stand by us in person when the going gets tough. > And now I struggle with the rejection demon on top of the > anger/resentment ones. In moments like these I'd rather that whole geni > bottle of emotions stayed tucked away in that dark closet where it lay. > Life would be far easier as a spock than a troi. Forgive me for dumping. No forgiveness needed! > It does seem to be what i do these days. Tell me to go away and stuff it > because I'm sure it will become as tiring to you all as it does to me. Only you can tell when venting moves from something that's helpful to you to something that keeps you mired in those negative emotions. As long as it's helpful to you, feel free to vent! >> Hang in there. This is a really rough spot to be in, and the >> depression and anger make it very challenging to see your way out [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > my issues and my needs, I know that will try anyone's patience who takes the > time to persevere. Don't sell yourself short. It sounds like you're very short on friends in real life right now, but it is not an unreasonable burden for friends to be there for friends in need. Yes, it takes some effort, but just as you'd want to be there for your friends in need, they want to be there for you as well. Not letting your friends help is kind of a backhanded insult, as if you don't think they're strong enough or you don't want to be indebted to them. You may be in a spot where you're finding that people you thought were real friends are actually fair weather friends, which is very hurtful, but don't be afraid to lean on friends when you need them. That's what they're there for. > I will try to be other centered, No, now would be a really good time for you to be self- centered and work on getting yourself healthy. You need to do that before you can go out and save the world, or even your relationships. Don't feel guilty about that. Best wishes, Ericka >> I will try to be other centered, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka Seconded, agreed and passed. There is a time for everything, and it certainly seems at this time for you, it is the time for you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Marc Quoted For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to throw away; a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace. Ecclesiastes > >> I will try to be other centered, > > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Ecclesiastes I love Ecclesiastes, and that section of it as well. This is a new thing, to demand for me, olr take for me. I am struggling with it, in maintaining a balance and not going overboard or returning to my usual everyone else but me outlook. I have taken little things like buying a necklace from avon. I want to take a weekend and go away somewhere. I don't know where, but someplace where I have friends to go be with. That is a tough bill to fill since I don't have any, lol, but that is the desire. Perhaps my high school reunion in August, which I will attend alone, will meet that need for now. Who knows. sparrow > I love Ecclesiastes, and that section of it as well. This is a new thing, > to demand for me, olr take for me. I am struggling with it, in maintaining [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > reunion in August, which I will attend alone, will meet that need for now. > Who knows. I hope this week went better, and you both managed to make some time for your own endeavours, and for each other. Thinking of you Marc > Absolutely, and it's going to be a messy process, and it's > going to be two-steps-forward-one-step-back, and all that. It may [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh, I very much suspect that it won't fix things. I > suspect that it's more symptom than problem, if anything. I hear you on all that. We had a long conversation last night because I emailed him my journal entry of yesterday. In it I had discussed the development of computer use in our family from the day or our marriage, and had mentioned a few words like manipulative and control. He was very angry and probably hurt after reading it but I finally got his attention. He did talk. I found his memory selective, forgetting things that I had asked for, but remembering things he had done to make my life good. Messy, hard conversation, but he did not walk out. Yes, i still get blamed for stuff in subtle ways, but at least he is talking and has now agreed to couples counseling, although he did make the usual statement, he would do it if i want him to but he doesn't think it will help. I will be looking for a counselor monday. As to the game and my on line friends, he said he never meant me to give that up. After much thought, and talk with my friend who has been walking me through this, I am going to go back to the game. I find myself curiously ambivalent about the game itself, which underscores to me the role the chat plays v. the game. I will also attempt to limit my hours in game so that it does not consume my life as it had been, but it is a diversion, a place to go to escape the real world. The real world has got to become more comfortable for me in order to me to be able to limit the need for the diversion. I don't expect him to do it all, I have my work to do here as well, but neither will I end my game play because of his demand. > It can be tough, to be sure. Does your church have a > needlework group? Mine has one that's pretty fun. It's called [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > be a fun weekend away. There's also Celebration of Needlework > in Nashua, NH in the spring. The local Needlework shop does have classes, but they are midmorning. Obviously not designed for the working person. Sigh. But the church is an idea. There are many women there, maybe I can get something going as fall arrives and kids go back to school. Many of the families with kids homeschool, so I hope an evening event would be feasable. > Only you can tell when venting moves from something > that's helpful to you to something that keeps you mired in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that before you can go out and save the world, or even your > relationships. Don't feel guilty about that. Erika - As i tell kly and dark, I am listening. I hear your words, I am filing them away, and trying to find the balance that they help lend. Every day, often every hour, is different internally. Sometimes I need a huge kick in the butt, many others I need a caring ear and sage advice or hugs. Thank you sparrow I cannot see why anyone would want to flame you. My overwhelming thought is just to give you a big hug. I'm so sorry that things are the way that they are for you ;-(. SignatureMo > I cannot see why anyone would want to flame you. My overwhelming thought is > just to give you a big hug. I'm so sorry that things are the way that they > are for you ;-(. Thank you Mo. To tell you the truth I was expecting Treenie or some other troll to hit me hard. I have been surprised at the lack of trolls, but the low noise is sad. One reason I've been gone so much was the high spam volume but that seems to have been diminished significantly Did someone call? ;) I figured out who you are and I'm sure you were a smart-a.s to me when I was being an a.shole. I missed this thread for a while and I'm glad I did because more has developed. Keep reading though Sparrow, I ain't gonna hurt you. Ms. A, sounds like your sh.t is pretty f*cked up. There was a time in my life when I went to AA because I thought I had a drinking problem. I think I had more of a life problem. But AA was really great because the program taught me how to live and helped me meet other people and to get "out of myself" a little bit. Don't know if there is booze in your family, but if you could get into a group like AA or Al-Anon, you might get some support, get out AND you could meet people who would have an interest in you. From what I remember about your occupation, I'd think you know about what's going on and be able to take some sort of action to resolve the mess, but maybe it's like "physician, heal thyself." Toto pointed me in the direction to learn more about abuse, and the abuse crap has multiple flavors. It looks like the crap may have settled into your life. Ain't my business, but don't be a doormat. Think of yourself AND your son. Don't let his life get f'ed up in this mess. sh.t - I feel sorry for you. Ewww - empathy. Maybe it's the vicodin I'm on. My back is screwed and I'm hoping to get surgery before the insurance plan changes - otherwise I'll be bankrupt. I haven't been able to walk or stand well since the start of May. I didn't get pain killers till the middle of July. Schadenfreudes anyone? My old man is dying a slow and painful death from mesothelioma from asbestos. I try to feel sorry for him. Perhaps my messed up spine is karma. So jump in and kick me, Ranger and Mo - I have it coming but it doesn't matter that much coming from you gnats. Last night I went to bed and told God that I'm sorry I'm such an a.shole to people and to please help me stop. Maybe you can pray, sparrow. It might work sometimes after all. Sucks to be you. Sucks to be me, too. At least you can walk and you have a good job. I thank God I still have feet and shoes to put on them. My job isn't great but for the first time it's one I like. It might be a trite and condescending cliche, but "things can always be worse." Get your sh.t together Lady! Maybe get out of there for a week or 2. Can you rent a room like 10 minutes away from work? Maybe distance will put things in perspective. Well you asked for advice and I hope you don't think I trolled you, 'cause it wasn't my intention... for once. Sorry this is happening - I hope it gets better for you. Now please stop reading this message Sparrow, and go to the next one. LaTreen Washington Is she gone? (LaTreen turns back to the rest of you, drops trou, and moons the other readers.) "Have a nice day y'all!" Ha ha ha - I think I need another vicodin... > > I cannot see why anyone would want to flame you. My overwhelming thought > is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > low noise is sad. One reason I've been gone so much was the high spam > volume but that seems to have been diminished significantly >Sucks to be you. Sucks to be me, too. At least you can walk and you >have a good job. I thank God I still have feet and shoes to put on >them. My job isn't great but for the first time it's one I like. It >might be a trite and condescending cliche, but "things can always be >worse." Wow - a glimpse of the human being behind the troll. I guess I haven't been around you as mucn as Toto has. Well, I gotta say I wish you well and luck - seriously. Time and time again in my life I discover that some of the worst actions are by unhappy people, people in pain (literally in your case), and to wish them well and even (if practicable) enable some improvement in their lives makes the whole venue a happier one. Yes, 12 step plans, even leaving aside for a moment the religious content, have a lot of wisdom to them. I'm not even religious, but I remind myself of the serenity prayer often. So all the best to you in your struggles, truly. Amazing you posted this. >(LaTreen turns back to the rest of you, drops trou, and moons the >other readers.) And at this point I don't even care if you posted that too LOL. Banty Did someone call? ;) I figured out who you are and I'm sure you were a smart-a.s to me when I was being an a.shole. I missed this thread for a while and I'm glad I did because more has developed. Keep reading though Sparrow, I ain't gonna hurt you. Ms. A, sounds like your sh.t is pretty f*cked up. There was a time in my life when I went to AA because I thought I had a drinking problem. I think I had more of a life problem. But AA was really great because the program taught me how to live and helped me meet other people and to get "out of myself" a little bit. Don't know if there is booze in your family, but if you could get into a group like AA or Al-Anon, you might get some support, get out AND you could meet people who would have an interest in you. From what I remember about your occupation, I'd think you know about what's going on and be able to take some sort of action to resolve the mess, but maybe it's like "physician, heal thyself." Toto pointed me in the direction to learn more about abuse, and the abuse crap has multiple flavors. It looks like the crap may have settled into your life. Ain't my business, but don't be a doormat. Think of yourself AND your son. Don't let his life get f'ed up in this mess. sh.t - I feel sorry for you. Ewww - empathy. Maybe it's the vicodin I'm on. My back is screwed and I'm hoping to get surgery before the insurance plan changes - otherwise I'll be bankrupt. I haven't been able to walk or stand well since the start of May. I didn't get pain killers till the middle of July. Schadenfreudes anyone? My old man is dying a slow and painful death from mesothelioma from asbestos. I try to feel sorry for him. Perhaps my messed up spine is karma. So jump in and kick me, Ranger and Mo - I have it coming but it doesn't matter that much coming from you gnats. Last night I went to bed and told God that I'm sorry I'm such an a.shole to people and to please help me stop. Maybe you can pray, sparrow. It might work sometimes after all. Sucks to be you. Sucks to be me, too. At least you can walk and you have a good job. I thank God I still have feet and shoes to put on them. My job isn't great but for the first time it's one I like. It might be a trite and condescending cliche, but "things can always be worse." Get your sh.t together Lady! Maybe get out of there for a week or 2. Can you rent a room like 10 minutes away from work? Maybe distance will put things in perspective. Well you asked for advice and I hope you don't think I trolled you, 'cause it wasn't my intention... for once. Sorry this is happening - I hope it gets better for you. Now please stop reading this message Sparrow, and go to the next one. LaTreen Washington Is she gone? (LaTreen turns back to the rest of you, drops trou, and moons the other readers.) "Have a nice day y'all!" Ha ha ha - I think I need another vicodin... On Jul 27, 4:00 pm, "eMtsuJ" <noSpam...@vermontel.net> wrote: > "Mo" <send dot mail dot to dot m...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:6f411tF9o4ssU1@mid.individual.net... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > low noise is sad. One reason I've been gone so much was the high spam > volume but that seems to have been diminished significantly <<<<<<<<Treenie>>>>>>>>> Wow, girl, I had no idea, and I am glad toto stuck in there with you to point you to something that has helped. Yes, I expected you to flame me horridly. You remind me how much people can change when given the opportunity. Thank you for that reminder, and for your words. We are trying. There was substance abuse before our marriage. That was gone before I met him, but the effects are more long lasting than I had realized at the time [memory loss among them]. I have been coming to realize a great deal more about him, me and our relationship in recent days. http://siddhe.livejournal.com/ This is surely an oddyssy. It is taken a step at a time, without knowing what the end result will be. I do pray, and I believe He will be there and help you, me, and all who ask. I deeply appreciate your words. a > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why i am > here. thank you for respecting that. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ i am seeking a > little support aside from the flames that will almost certainly come. > > call me sparrow ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi! And of course I remember you...I have even met you and still consider you a friend :-) I am so sorry to hear about the h*ll you are going through, I just can't imagine, but then things sneak up on us and then suddenly we look around and things are FUBAR, leaving us wondering how we got from there to here. ((((hugs to you my OL and RL friend)))))) beth email the same as ever > Hi! And of course I remember you...I have even met you and still consider > you a friend :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > beth > email the same as ever Thank you , Beth. Your girls must be so big by now! DS is as tall as me and we had to buy him new sneakers today because the size ten men's we bought him in April were too small. Today it was size twelve mens shoes! EEEeeppppp! Thank you for your kind words. Yes, things snuck up on us. And after last nights difficult conversation I see communication is part of the core issue, as well as that he does not realize in any way that he has been controlling me in so many ways all these years. we will go into couples counseling as soon as i can find one. > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why i am > here. thank you for respecting that. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > call me sparrow Hi Sparrow (hugs) - somehow this post got away from me and I did not see it. It is amazing how difficulties can kind of creep up and how one can justify behaviors of others, then recognize how much anger and resentment they've been stuffing away. I think that regardless as to what transpires - or how this is resolved - you are taking the beginning steps toward healing and toward remembering that you need to be loyal to you first. ((((((((hugs)))))))) the sanct is till open, albeit quiet, if you need........ Teri > we know each other, but i am keeping my id under wraps because of why > i am here. thank you for respecting that. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > call me sparrow Sparrow, You know that we are here and care about you. If you want to chat email me at froggy 1030 at embarqmail dot com SignatureFroggy |
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