Toy guns
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ºFree~Spiritº - 30 Oct 2003 05:38 GMT 9 Year Old Arrested For Waving Toy Gun By Michael C. Fitzpatrick Morning Journal Writer - Cleveland 10-29-3
LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report. His mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, said her son, Thomas Clark Jr., told Lorain police when they approached him outside a Broadway business that the gun was a toy. An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report. Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report. ''He doesn't deserve this. He is not a bad kid at all. That's what I was trying to explain to the officer. It's just not fair,'' Saunders said. Saunders was getting her hair done at the Northern Institute of Cosmetology on Broadway near Seventh Street when the incident began. Saunders said she and her son were spending the day together . Saunders said her son got his hair cut first, and then he went outside to play while waiting on her. A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report. The report said the gun was spray painted black and resembled a genuine gun. At that point, Officer Joe Novosielski confronted the boy at gunpoint, ordering him to drop the gun and then lie on the ground, the report said. Thomas, who his mother said has been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, said he was frightened by the incident. Lorain police said Novosielski handled the situation properly. ''Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that,'' Lt. Robert Poli said. ''We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around,'' Poli said. ''You don't know it's a toy gun.'' Saunders said police were not even going to come inside the cosmetology institute to tell her they were arresting her son. She said she learned from another woman her son was being arrested. Saunders, wearing curlers in her hair, said she raced out to the police car to attempt to intervene on her son's behalf. ''He (Novosielski) snatched me by the arm and cuffed me. People were just walking down the street shaking their heads. I did not cuss at him, and I did not yell at him, because I'm not that type of person. I feel I'm the one that was disrespected,'' Saunders said of her arrest. When informed her son was being arrested, Saunders attempted to pull her son away from the officer but moved away when told to, according to the report. Police said Saunders pleaded with them not to arrest her son and to ''just give him a warning,'' according to the report. She also told police her son ''was just playing'' and that he didn't point the gun at anyone before asking police, ''Don't you have anything better to do?'' Saunders was eventually arrested after refusing to move away from the cruiser where her son had been placed, the report said. The officer told her to finish her business at the beauty salon and then come to the station to pick up her son, according to the report. She is free on $750 bond and is scheduled to appear in Lorain Municipal Court today. The report of Thomas' arrest was forwarded to the juvenile court system, according to the police report. Lorain County Prosecutor's Office spokesman Mark Hastings said the report had not been received yet. ©The Morning Journal 2003
Free Spirit DD(7) DS(10)
enigma - 30 Oct 2003 14:07 GMT > 9 Year Old Arrested For > Waving Toy Gun [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > Lorain County Prosecutor's Office spokesman Mark Hastings > said the report had not been received yet. i would be sueing the police department. if this is what happened it was handled *extremely* badly by the police. there is no excuse for pointing a real gun at a 9 year old boy's head. when i was a teen i was in a car that got pulled over because someone saw one of the kids in the back pass a pellet gun to one of the kids in the front to put in the glove box. a pellet gun looks way more like a handgun than a spraypainted plastic toy (unless it's one of those vintage 60s toys. i had some pretty realistic cap guns as a kid) so i can understand the reasoning. while the officer that pulled us over had his gun drawn, he certainly didn't *aim* it at anyone. he was also jumpy when i removed the pellet gun from the glovebox, understandably... however, once we showed him the pellet gun, the pellets (it wasn't loaded. we weren't stupid) & how it worked, he let us go...after asking where he could get one :p it wasn't an entirely pleasant experience (especially since i had no ID) but it certainly was less traumatic than this is going to be for both the boy & his mom. that kid is *never* going to trust cops again. <sheesh!> another zero tolerance over reaction. lee
Angie - 30 Oct 2003 18:08 GMT I agree. I'd listen to the mother who pleaded, I mean, she said it was fake.
> > 9 Year Old Arrested For > > Waving Toy Gun [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > another zero tolerance over reaction. > lee Nan - 30 Oct 2003 18:19 GMT > another zero tolerance over reaction. >lee As much as I don't like toy guns, I have to agree the cops went way overboard. I hope the department heads can truly see this for what it is and discipline those officers accordingly.
Nan
sc®umble - 30 Oct 2003 20:04 GMT > > another zero tolerance over reaction. > >lee [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I hope the department heads can truly see this for what it is and > discipline those officers accordingly. Is it illegal to have toy gun in america.If not then I don't see what case they have,especially as the child obviously hadn't threatened anyone,and once they had the gun off the kid they would have been aware it wasn't real.
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Nan - 30 Oct 2003 20:14 GMT >> > another zero tolerance over reaction. >> >lee [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >they have,especially as the child obviously hadn't threatened anyone,and >once they had the gun off the kid they would have been aware it wasn't real. Heh. Walk into any toy store in the US and you're bombarded with all kinds of toy guns. Nope, they're not illegal. I don't really see what case they might think they have.
I'd love to see the officers disciplined and have to give an apology to the boy *and* his mother.
Nan
Jarkat2002 - 30 Oct 2003 21:34 GMT >I'd love to see the officers disciplined and have to give an apology >to the boy *and* his mother. > >Nan not me.
~Kat
"Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer
gale - 30 Oct 2003 23:44 GMT > >I'd love to see the officers disciplined and have to give an apology > >to the boy *and* his mother. > > > >Nan > > not me. whoever allowed and/or assisted the child in painting the gun to look real should *really* be taken to task. That was a very stupid manouver and the individual was not thinking of the various children and adults who have been killed mistakenly because the cops *thought* they were armed with real guns and did not respond appropriately to their orders.
-A-
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gale - 30 Oct 2003 21:38 GMT > Is it illegal to have toy gun in america.If not then I don't see what case > they have,especially as the child obviously hadn't threatened anyone,and > once they had the gun off the kid they would have been aware it wasn't real. It is not illegal but it is apparently illegal to manufacture toy guns the look like the real thing because of similar events where people have even been killed because the cop thought the gun was real.
-A-
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Jarkat2002 - 30 Oct 2003 21:33 GMT >As much as I don't like toy guns, I have to agree the cops went way >overboard. >I hope the department heads can truly see this for what it is and >discipline those officers accordingly. > >Nan I don't know ... after seeing an interview w/ the mother I could see how hysterical she would become her arrest was probably necessary for the PD to evaluate the scene (ugh .. it's NOT like me at all to take up for the PD!) I saw the gun on the news .. it DID look real. The kid spray painted it to look real. I'm glad the kid didn't get shot! He is lucky, IMO anyone waving a gun around puts themselves at risk. Weather they are 'playing' or not. ~Kat
"Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer
Nan - 30 Oct 2003 21:46 GMT >>As much as I don't like toy guns, I have to agree the cops went way >>overboard. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >gun around puts themselves at risk. Weather they are 'playing' or not. >~Kat Well, I haven't seen the interview, so I suppose she could have been overly hysterical. However, I still think that pointing a loaded gun at a young kid's head and continuing to follow up with an arrest after being told it was a toy was out of line. I agree that it was really stupid of the kid, but overkill is still overkill on the part of the officers.
Nan
Lead Foot Mama - 30 Oct 2003 19:10 GMT OMFG! This is ridiculous.
I'm against guns and all - but finally gave in and let DS have a wooden cap gun (resembles an old time doublebarrel gun - we bought on vacation to WIlliamsburg this past summer). Its got the orange tipped end and all, and its a cap gun.
My son is 9, and he and his buddies all have cap guns - and they play in the yard with them - cops and robbers or war or whatever. If they don't have the cap guns, they are using things like hockey sticks or sticks as pretend guns. Its no different in how they play than it was when I was a kid - or when my parents were kids.
I find this story just stupid. Arresting a 9 yr old, hauling him off to the station without his mother. Hell - if anyone should have been arrested, it should have been the mother - but since it was a toy gun, there's no need for anyone to be arrested. And to think they wanted to take the son away from the mom and have her join them at the station when she was "done with her business". F-that - Nobody and I mean NOBODY would be taking my son without taking me right along with them. I don't care if I was in the middle of having my hair colored and went with foil and chemicals in my hair.
>9 Year Old Arrested For >Waving Toy Gun [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] >Free Spirit >DD(7) DS(10) -- LFM They say I need to lose weight... How do you spot reduce 10lbs out of your right foot?
Angie - 30 Oct 2003 19:36 GMT I hear you!!
> OMFG! This is ridiculous. > [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > They say I need to lose weight... > How do you spot reduce 10lbs out of your right foot? Jarkat2002 - 30 Oct 2003 21:38 GMT >I find this story just stupid. Arresting a 9 yr old, hauling him off >to the station without his mother. Hell - if anyone should have been >arrested, it should have been the mother - she was.
>but since it was a toy gun, >there's no need for anyone to be arrested. Unless he was pointing it at others who did not know it was a toy. He took the toy gun and made it look real. Yes, it was a toy, but did the people around him know that? No, and he didn't want them too either. Don't get me wrong, I DON'T think this kid should go to jail, but I do think some kind of action should happen.
>And to think they wanted >to take the son away from the mom and have her join them at the >station when she was "done with her business". F-that - Nobody and I >mean NOBODY would be taking my son without taking me right along with >them. I'm sure she was arrested, she was screaming at the cameras on the news about it.
~Kat
"Rice Krispies. East meets west" Cosmo Kramer
toto - 31 Oct 2003 00:24 GMT >OMFG! This is ridiculous. It sounds ridiculous that's true. I cannot find any pictures of the toy gun online, but did find this.
Charges dropped in toy gun arrest
Wednesday, October 29, 2003
W W W . C H R O N I C L E T E L E G R A M . C O M
Tony Lombardo The Chronicle-Telegram
LORAIN A 9-year-old Sheffield Lake boy wont face charges for waving a toy gun in the air on Broadway Avenue in Lorain, county Prosecutor Jeff Manning said. The boy and his mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, were both arrested Saturday after noon when a driver called police after seeing the boy waving what appeared to be a real gun.
The boy was charged with inducing panic and his mother with obstructing official business and resisting arrest. The charges against the boy were dropped Tuesday.
Lorain police Lt. Bob Poli said the gun, which was painted black, looks like a real 45mm semi-automatic weapon. I know all kids have toy guns and like to play with them, but they cant be painting them to appear real. This one here looks pretty real, he said.
Saunders said she didnt know her son had the toy, which he found in the park two days earlier. She said she was getting a haircut at the Institute of Cosmetology when another customer told her police had arrested her son.
I flew outside, and I saw the police putting my son in the squad car, she said. Saunders said her son was frightened and cried as police took him into custody. He has attention deficit disorder, his mother said. It makes him sensitive and softhearted.
Police said they felt threatened by the gun. Patrolman Joe Novosielski approached the boy as if he were a threat, Poli said. You assume its real until you get there and see for yourself, he said. Novosielskis report states, I exited my cruiser and confronted the male at gunpoint. I ordered him to drop the gun and lie on the ground.
Manning said the guns appearance justified the call to police. The gun looks fairly real. Weve had a rash of incidents involving firearms in this city, Manning said. Theres a heightened sensitivity among law enforcement individuals.
Saunders was handcuffed and placed next to her son after obstructing police business, a report said.
The report states she refused to walk away from the police car and flailed her arms when the officer attempted to handcuff her.
Saunders is scheduled to appear in Lorain Municipal Court on Nov. 14.
Saunders denied resisting arrest and said the officer used excessive force with her son.
I was begging and begging the officer to give my son a warning, she said. My son didnt have any idea what he was doing wrong.
Contact Tony Lombardo at 329-7134 or tlombardo@chronicletelegram.com. Charges dropped in toy gun arrest
Police apprehend 9-year-old Sheffield Lake boy at gunpoint for waving plastic pistol
TONY LOMBARDO / CHRONICLE A 9-year-old boy was arrested in Lorain while playing with this toy gun, which had been painted black.
-- Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
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