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Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / February 2005Found a Preschool for dgd!
We found a nursery school for dgd for September. It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the Bible belt. <g> Good points: She doesn't have to be potty trained. She can bring her *pink blankie* and they have no problem with her dragging it around though they will encourage her to leave it in her cubbie. It's a small school with 16 students in the class and two teachers and their are often helpers in the classroom. The teachers are very friendly and they have been teaching for quite a while as a team. The classroom is mostly play based with projects done in small groups throughout the morning although some projects are a bit longer and can be whole group. The playground is lovely and easily supervised because of the high fence around it. We can bring her as much as we like and stay with her to familiarize her with the classroom and teachers over the summer when they do their vacation bible study camp. The first week is a *slow start* where only part of the class comes so it is not so overwhelming to a slow to warm child and parents are welcome to stay for the first day if they wish. The only con: They are quite Christian and do some bible stories which we don't really want - the director takes small groups to the chapel to listen to the preacher's stories. I am applying to sub there so I can keep an eye on things and asked the director if they might be interested in starting a 4 y o class since there is no preK currently. If she is interested in that, I would certainly not mind teaching such a class instead of having dgd go to the public preK at 4. They also have a toddler class and a 2 year old class so dgs can go earlier, since he is so outgoing. He will probably be ready to go for a few days at 2, I suspect. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > We found a nursery school for dgd for September. > > It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the > Bible belt. <g> > > W w00t w00t may it be brilliant for her! I'm never sure on the 'too christian' thing and I'm against churchy stuff these days having had it rammed down my throat for years... I figure a little biblical knowledge and teaching in early years isn't necessarily a bad thing > We found a nursery school for dgd for September. :) > It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the > Bible belt. <g> That's the best part. (BG) > Good points: > She doesn't have to be potty trained. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > will probably be ready to go for a few days at 2, I > suspect. >> It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the >> Bible belt. <g> > >That's the best part. (BG) Sorry, if they start trying to convert her, we will have to pull her out despite how *good* it seems. Saying grace and celebrating the holidays is fine, but teaching Bible stories as truth is not. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >We found a nursery school for dgd for September. > >It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the >Bible belt. <g> Excellent! E's preschool is also faith-based. We're not church-going types, but figure a little learning about that can't hurt the young one ;-) Nan >>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >types, but figure a little learning about that can't hurt the young >one ;-) I think that learning bible stories is not something I want for a young Hindu child. You may be okay with that, but ds will counter it so she knows they are fiction. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >young Hindu child. You may be okay with that, but ds will counter >it so she knows they are fiction. Very true. E's preschool hasn't focused on bible stories. They say grace before snacktime and have done a Christmas program for the church, and will also do an Easter program. They do sing some songs tied to Jesus and such, but I haven't seen a heavy dose of faith teaching, at all. Nan >Very true. E's preschool hasn't focused on bible stories. They say >grace before snacktime and have done a Christmas program for the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Nan Yeah, but you are not in the south.. Indiana is much more like Illinois in that respect I think. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > young Hindu child. You may be okay with that, but ds will counter > it so she knows they are fiction. So the crucifixion is also fiction eh? >>>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >So the crucifixion is also fiction eh? Depends on whether you believe that Jesus was a historical person or not. I do believe that happened. They crucified plenty of others as well in that time. The part that[s fiction is the part where he arose from the dead. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > The part that[s fiction is the part where he arose from the > dead. Are you willing to let her make up her own mind on that matter? Or will you teach her what *you* believe to be fiction...? It might be fiction to you, but plenty of people believe it to be fact, and base their beliefs on it. A child has a right to decide for themselves in this matter. Manipulating them according to your own beliefs is the same thing as someone teaching them fiction presented as fact. You should let her determine for herself what is the truth. >It might be fiction to you, but plenty of people believe it to be fact, >and base their beliefs on it. A child has a right to decide for themselves >in this matter. Sure she can make up her own mind when she gets older. My dd is spiritual, but not church religious. My ds is atheist. The grandchildren will be what they will be. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>It might be fiction to you, but plenty of people believe it to be fact, >>and base their beliefs on it. A child has a right to decide for themselves [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The grandchildren will be what they will be. :) Okay...then I'll shut up now. (BG) >>>>>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > thing as someone teaching them fiction presented as fact. > You should let her determine for herself what is the truth. oh, like the neo-cons? http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May2004/Bageant0518.htm lovely people. i expect to be burned at the stake in a few years. lee <not faith based. i prefer logic> >>>>>>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > oh, like the neo-cons? This isn't political, it never was. > http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May2004/Bageant0518.htm > > lovely people. i expect to be burned at the stake in a few > years. Stereotyping faith according to a single incident, or several...is quite typical. > lee <not faith based. i prefer logic> So do I, which is why I don't believe that things just 'happen'. Logic dictates a design, there is no design in prejudice, it's irrational. >>>>>>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > oh, like the neo-cons? > http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May2004/Bageant0518.htm Just got the chance to read this. People are entitled to their own opinions. Stereotyping Christians isn't anything new. Personally, I don't really much let it bother me...I'm not your typical 'christian'...in fact, I'm not really a christian at all. I don't walk the walk...I don't talk the talk, and I believe what logic tells me to. That also means that I don't take the Bible as fact, I take it as a nice excerpt of primative mans interpretation of events that they couldn't explain in any other manner. But I do believe in something beyond the understanding of man, if that happens to be God...then so be it. > lovely people. i expect to be burned at the stake in a few > years. > lee <not faith based. i prefer logic> > I think that learning bible stories is not something I want for a > young Hindu child. You may be okay with that, but ds will counter > it so she knows they are fiction. To HER they are fiction. I realize that this is probably what you meant but things are starting to strike me a bit wrong with the wording you chose so I thought I would clarify. No harm done though, Dorothy. -Kara. >>>We found a nursery school for dgd for September. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > young Hindu child. You may be okay with that, but ds will counter > it so she knows they are fiction. Sorry hon...but I have to say something... You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real people, along with the junk that gets fed to them on TV and mainstream advertising, all presented as fact to an impressionalble child that actually believes them...and you're worried about a few Bible stories? It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other 'religions' in a public school environment, and yet you're worried about a few bible stories in a christian environment? I have no problem with hinduism, or any other religion...let people believe what they want to believe. But I do have a problem with double standards, and this is a classic one. I respect you a great deal Dorothy, but I can't agree with this in any way whatsoever. Eventually children *will* grow out of believing in Santa Clause, and they'll do the same with 'Bible Stories'. >You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real >people, along with the junk that gets fed to them on TV and mainstream >advertising, all presented as fact to an impressionalble child that >actually believes them...and you're worried about a few Bible stories? No, I don't teach that either. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real >>people, along with the junk that gets fed to them on TV and mainstream >>advertising, all presented as fact to an impressionalble child that >>actually believes them...and you're worried about a few Bible stories? > > No, I don't teach that either. But does she believe it? That's the point. And if she does, do you discourage it? Or tell her that he doesn't exist? >>>You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real >>>people, along with the junk that gets fed to them on TV and mainstream [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >But does she believe it? That's the point. And if she does, do you >discourage it? Or tell her that he doesn't exist? At three? I don't know. She doesn't really know much about Santa at this point. She sees him in the malls, but we don't read the stories about Christmas so she doesn't know that he is or isn't real. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter >>>Bunny are real people, along with the junk that gets fed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > does, do you discourage it? Or tell her that he doesn't > exist? if her mom is Hindu & her dad is athiest, why would they celebrate Christmas... which *is* what the whole santa claus thing is about (although a bit more secular: 'santa' still translates as 'saint')? same thing with the easter bunny, although i'll be the first to admit *that* is a pagan symbol (& therebay more acceptable to me). i don't teach santa or the easter bunny, but i do have holidays around solstices & equinoxes, because holidays are fun. i don't want the Christian right telling my kid creation stories in school either. sheesh. lee >>>>You teach your child that Santa Clause and the Easter >>>>Bunny are real people, along with the junk that gets fed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > thing is about (although a bit more secular: 'santa' still > translates as 'saint')? That doesn't answer my question. If you teach your child that Santa is a real person, and encourage it...what is the difference between that and teaching bible stories in the same context. > same thing with the easter bunny, although i'll be the first > to admit *that* is a pagan symbol (& therebay more acceptable [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stories in school either. sheesh. > lee And I don't want teachers teaching the *theory* of evolution to mine, stating it as fact and telling them that their faith is a myth. But there's nothing wrong with that, right? It works both ways. >If you teach your child that Santa is a real person, and encourage >it...what is the difference between that and teaching bible stories in >the same context. Hindus and atheists *don't* teach their kids that Santa is a real person though, so it's irrelevant. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>If you teach your child that Santa is a real person, and encourage >>it...what is the difference between that and teaching bible stories in >>the same context. > > Hindus and atheists *don't* teach their kids that Santa is a real > person though, so it's irrelevant. No it isn't. It's just an excuse not to answer the question. Thanks Dorothy, that answers it well enough. >>>If you teach your child that Santa is a real person, and encourage >>>it...what is the difference between that and teaching bible stories in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >It's just an excuse not to answer the question. Thanks Dorothy, that >answers it well enough. I don't know of any Hindu who teaches there child that Santa or the Easter Bunny is real. Do you really think that Hindus have a Christmas tree and presents from Santa in their houses? They don't. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>>If you teach your child that Santa is a real person, and encourage >>>>it...what is the difference between that and teaching bible stories in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Christmas tree and presents from Santa in their houses? They > don't. I realize that. That wasn't my question. I still never go an answer, hypothetical or not. >I still never go an answer, hypothetical or not. What was the question again? Old age... <g> -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>I still never go an answer, hypothetical or not. > > What was the question again? Old age... <g> (BG) Never mind hon...I can just be an a.s at times, can't I? (VBG) >>>I still never go an answer, hypothetical or not. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Never mind hon...I can just be an a.s at times, can't I? (VBG) Of course, but it's 'cause ya loves me. <vbg> -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>>I still never go an answer, hypothetical or not. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Of course, but it's 'cause ya loves me. <vbg> :) Oh yeah...and about the old age thing...? (VBG) > if her mom is Hindu & her dad is athiest, why would they > celebrate Christmas... which *is* what the whole santa claus > thing is about (although a bit more secular: 'santa' still > translates as 'saint')? Santa actually was a saint :-). Santa Claus comes from the Dutch Sint Nicolaas (or Sinterklaas as he is mostly called). St. Nicolaas was the bisshop of Mira. We celebrate Sinterklaas Day on 5th December, but that feast has *nothing* to with religion anymore :-). It's not even an official holiday in the sense that people get the day off ;-).  SignatureMo >It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other 'religions' in a public >school environment, and yet you're worried about a few bible stories in a >christian environment? They don't teach hinduism as truth in any public school environment. Nor should they teach Christianity or Judaism or Islam as *truth* Learning *about* any religion is fine. Learning it as if it was true is not unless its the parent teaching it or your own church. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other 'religions' in a public >>school environment, and yet you're worried about a few bible stories in a >>christian environment? > > They don't teach hinduism as truth in any public school environment. > Nor should they teach Christianity or Judaism or Islam as *truth* Bullshit. They tried that with my son here when he was in 6th grade and he told them it was a bunch of crap. Don't tell me they don't try to teach it, we went through this with the school here along with several other parents a few years ago because they wouldn't allow the kids to read their bibles in the library but insisted on teaching buddism and hinduism as part of history. They don't do it now because we raised hell about it, but they *did* try. > Learning *about* any religion is fine. Learning it as if it was true > is not unless its the parent teaching it or your own church. So let the kids decide that for themselves, why is that such a problem for people who don't believe? I honestly don't understand this. >Don't tell me they don't try to teach it, we went through this with the >school here along with several other parents a few years ago because >they wouldn't allow the kids to read their bibles in the library but >insisted on teaching buddism and hinduism as part of history. But they are part of history. So is Christianity, So is Islam, so is Confucianism, etc. I doubt very much if the teachers even know the tenets of any religion other than their own. And I doubt they were teaching any of those things as *truth.* -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>Don't tell me they don't try to teach it, we went through this with the >>school here along with several other parents a few years ago because [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > religion other than their own. And I doubt they were teaching > any of those things as *truth.* Regardless, if they talk about one, they need to cover the others as well...and they weren't doing that. They were forbidding the discussions of Christianity and allowing the others. My daughter wore a cross to school, and was told to remove it. The girl she was sitting next to in the same class had a jewish star on her notebook, but they didn't have a problem with that. It's a double standard, and it's pathetic IMO. >My daughter wore a cross to school, and was told to remove it. The girl >she was sitting next to in the same class had a jewish star on her >notebook, but they didn't have a problem with that. I do think that is ridiculous. Your dd should certainly be able to wear a cross (unless it's a gang symbol - they banned both five and six pointed stars for that reason in Chicago - they were being used to signify belonging to rival gangs). -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>My daughter wore a cross to school, and was told to remove it. The girl >>she was sitting next to in the same class had a jewish star on her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > five and six pointed stars for that reason in Chicago - they were > being used to signify belonging to rival gangs). Well, it didn't happen that way, and it's getting worse. >>Don't tell me they don't try to teach it, we went through this with the >>school here along with several other parents a few years ago because [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > religion other than their own. And I doubt they were teaching > any of those things as *truth.* My 10th grade world history teacher taught all the religions.. She did it so well I dabbled in Buddism for 5 years about. She spent verry little time on christianity and it turned out she was Catholic. Other religions where taught as other truths. Tori SignatureBonnie 3/20/02 Xavier 10/27/04 >> I doubt very much if the teachers even know the tenets of any >> religion other than their own. And I doubt they were teaching [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >christianity and it turned out she was Catholic. Other religions where >taught as other truths. They should be taught as faiths that some people believe not as *truths* at all. And they should be taught in historical contexts as should Christianity. It is impossible to understand the history of Europe and of the US without understanding something about Christianity. And it is impossible to read much Western literature without understanding Christian symbols at the very least. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > And they should be taught in historical contexts as should > Christianity. It is impossible to understand the history of > Europe and of the US without understanding something about > Christianity. And it is impossible to read much Western > literature without understanding Christian symbols at the > very least. I couldn't agree with you more, Dorothy :-). As an atheist I had considerable difficulties understanding all the references to the christian faith in English literature and to a lesser extent in Dutch literature. SignatureMo >>>Don't tell me they don't try to teach it, we went through this with the >>>school here along with several other parents a few years ago because [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Tori That's the way it should be, and I commend your teacher for doing it. However, there are many times where this doesn't happen...that's where I take exception to it. >>>It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other >>>'religions' in a public school environment, and yet you're [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > They don't do it now because we raised hell about it, but > they *did* try. but Buddism and Hinduism *are* a part of history, as is Juadism, Cristianity, Calvinism, Puritanism, etc. almost all religious movements have caused or been created by some historical event. you cannot teach that event without the underlying religious background. history makes no sense if you take away the underpinning myths. if you don't understand history, you *are* going to repeat it. i suppose you object to teaching greek & roman mythology also? there's nothing wrong with teaching myth or religious myth, as long as you aren't forcing your religious myth on anyone else. >> Learning *about* any religion is fine. Learning it as if >> it was true is not unless its the parent teaching it or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > such a problem for people who don't believe? I honestly > don't understand this. so why was it a problem for you & the other parents when your child's school taught about buddism & hinduism in historical context? it's not like they were forcing them to accept those myths any more than the cristian ones you seem to prefer. lee SignatureIt is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998) >>>>It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other >>>>'religions' in a public school environment, and yet you're [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > myths any more than the cristian ones you seem to prefer. > lee I didn't have a problem with it. I had a problem with the prohibition of discussions of any kind concerning christianity and the encouragement of of discussions of other religions. You discuss one, you must cover them all. You can't single out a single faith and forbid it. It's either all or none. >>>>It's okay for teachers to teach hinduism and other >>>>'religions' in a public school environment, and yet you're [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > myth, as long as you aren't forcing your religious myth on > anyone else. I don't object to the teaching of *any* religion or belief, regardless of what it is, I object to people telling my kids that what they believe is a myth simply because they don't believe it themselves. Let the kids believe whatever they wish, but keep it within a objectionable context. I have never forced my beliefs on *anyone*, and neither do my kids. I expect the same respect from others who disagree with me concerning those beliefs. I object to schools singling out and fobidding students to practice their christian faiths, and yet not doing the same with other religions. If you allow discussions of one, or even several religions...you can't single out a particular belief and fobid it without showing the same consideration for other beliefs. >>> Learning *about* any religion is fine. Learning it as if it was true >>> is not unless its the parent teaching it or your own church. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > like they were forcing them to accept those myths any more than the > cristian ones you seem to prefer. lee >I object to schools singling out and fobidding students to practice their >christian faiths, and yet not doing the same with other religions. That happens because Christianity is a proselytizing faith. Almost no other religion goes out trying to convert others. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>I object to schools singling out and fobidding students to >>practice their christian faiths, and yet not doing the same [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Almost no other religion goes out trying to convert > others. not all Christian faiths proselytize either. i've never been grabbed by an Episcopalian bound on converting me... although that's likely to change with the charismatics & evangelicals splitting the church... i have been 'invited to tea' by the Moonies (if that was before your time, the Moonies invited young teens to tea & basicly kidnapped & brainwashed them) & had Jehovah Witnesses knocking on my door. my brother was stalked by the Sc**ntol*gists... truthfully, i am terrified by the growth of the Christian Right. first they go after the gays, then who will be next? non-Christians? unmarried mothers? lee<interesting times are indeed a curse> > truthfully, i am terrified by the growth of the Christian >Right. first they go after the gays, then who will be next? >non-Christians? unmarried mothers? I agree there. Heck, I lived next door to a Protestant missionary who went to Italy to convert the Catholics once. And I agree that not all Christians try to proseletyze others. Unfortunately the fundamentalists who believe in the Bible as literal truth are the ones we need to watch out for because they really believe they have a mission to keep everyone else from going to hell. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>I object to schools singling out and fobidding students to practice their >>christian faiths, and yet not doing the same with other religions. > > That happens because Christianity is a proselytizing faith. Almost > no other religion goes out trying to convert others. No it isn't. Muslims do the same thing. Regardless, it's a double standard and prejudice. If you allow one faith, you must allow others. In any other light, it's nothing but bigotry and prejudice towards the christian faith. >Eventually children *will* grow out of believing in Santa Clause, and >they'll do the same with 'Bible Stories'. I teach children that fairy tales are just that - fun stories. The same thing is true of religious stories. They are stories often with a moral, but they are on the order of Aesops fables and not literally true. Santa Claus is also a fun fictional character. I wouldn't tell anyone that he is a real person. I won't disabuse other people's children of the notion that he's real. But I also won't tell my kids a lie when they ask. I think the Santa as the spirit of giving is fine, but the kids get their gifts from us, not from Santa. Of course, Hindus don't even celebrate Christmas that way. And if I was Christian, I would really prefer celebrating Christmas without any Santa Claus anyway. I always liked the idea that my neighbors had of giving gifts to the poor at that time of year. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>Eventually children *will* grow out of believing in Santa Clause, and >>they'll do the same with 'Bible Stories'. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with a moral, but they are on the order of Aesops fables and not > literally true. Maybe not for you and others who feel this way...but for some their entire lives are based on this. It's only to be expected that they would teach them as fact, it's part of their religious nature. > Santa Claus is also a fun fictional character. I > wouldn't tell anyone that he is a real person. I won't disabuse > other people's children of the notion that he's real. But I also > won't tell my kids a lie when they ask. Again...others, perhaps not you...will teach their children that he *does* exist, and then turn around and have a fit when Bible stories are taught within the same context. That is what I mean by double standard. > I think the Santa as the > spirit of giving is fine, but the kids get their gifts from us, not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > idea that my neighbors had of giving gifts to the poor at that > time of year. Arrrrgh...you know... I love ya anyway. :) >> I teach children that fairy tales are just that - fun stories. The >> same thing is true of religious stories. They are stories often [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >lives are based on this. It's only to be expected that they would teach >them as fact, it's part of their religious nature. Teach them to your own children not mine. At any rate, I don't object to them teaching them in the context of a religious preschool. I just wish there was an alternative here. I am willing to put up with it because the program is good. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>> I teach children that fairy tales are just that - fun stories. The >>> same thing is true of religious stories. They are stories often [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Teach them to your own children not mine. The same can be said for others as well, only it never is. > At any rate, I don't object to them teaching them in the context of > a religious preschool. I just wish there was an alternative here. > I am willing to put up with it because the program is good. That's good to hear...I'm glad the pressure is off. And I am happy that you found something acceptable. >> Santa Claus is also a fun fictional character. I >> wouldn't tell anyone that he is a real person. I won't disabuse [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >exist, and then turn around and have a fit when Bible stories are taught >within the same context. That is what I mean by double standard. So if I taught your three year old that this story was true, you would have no objection? Once upon a time Yama, the god of death, fell in love with a mortal woman. He disguised himself as a mortal man and won her hand. As she was mortal, he lived with her on earth rather than taking her to his underworld kingdom, Yamapuri. But it was not long before he discovered that the wife he had chosen was shrewish and quarrelsome. She became even worse after she bore him a son. The son was named Yama Kumar. Yama frequently disagreed with his mortal wife over Yama Kumars upbringing, but she argued so violently with him that in the end Yama agreed to whatever she said. Finally, Yama couldnt bear her bad temper any more and returned to his kingdom. From there he kept an eye on his son whom he loved very much. Unfortunately, his wife was unable to raise the boy properly and he grew up without learning anything to make a living for himself. One night Yama appeared before his son and promised him the gift of healing if Yama Kumar work very hard and learn about medicinal herbs and plants. The young man gratefully accepted his fathers gift. After some time, the young man became a qualified doctor. "I am proud of you, my son," Yama said, "Now any time you approach a patient, if you see me sitting at the patients head, that means the patient will die. Then you should refuse to treat that patient." The boy followed his fathers instructions and soon became widely known for his excellent diagnosis and treatment. Some years later, the princess became very ill. Royal physicians came from far and near to cure her but they were all unsuccessful. The princess grew weaker and weaker. The kings courtiers then told the king about Yama Kumar. The king decided to let Yama Kumar try to cure the princess. Yama Kumar was thrilled at the opportunity to compete with the royal physicians. But as he approached the princess bed he was dismayed to see his father sitting there. "Oh father!" Yama pleaded, "Please spare her life! She is so young and beautiful. Must you take her life away now?" Yama loved his son very much and wanted to let the princess live, but he was also duty bound to take her. Finally he agreed to let her live for just three more days. Thanking his father, Yama turned to the king and queen who could not see or hear the conversation between father and son. "Your majesties, your daughter is very ill" Yama Kumar told them. "I think she may have only three days of life left. However, if she outlives these, she will live to a ripe old age." Saying this he sat down beside her and thought hard of a plan to save her life. Yama Kumar never left the princess bedside Finally, on the third day, he saw his father approaching from a distance. Before Yama could reach the princess, Yama Kumar slyly called out, "Oh mother! How nice of you to come to see father!" Upon hearing his sons words, Yama immediately fled before he could even reach the princess bedside. Yamas sense of duty could not overcome his fear of his shrewish wife! Yama Kumars trick had worked! As soon as Yama left, the color began to return miraculously to the princess cheeks. After a week had passed, Yama Kumar announced to the king that his daughter was cured. So happy were the king and the queen that they married the young man to their daughter and the couple lived happily to a ripe old age. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>> Santa Claus is also a fun fictional character. I >>> wouldn't tell anyone that he is a real person. I won't disabuse [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So if I taught your three year old that this story was true, > you would have no objection? No, I wouldn't. I would let him decide, because most kids that age will come to the parents and ask them their advice on the story itself. I *would* have a problem if you told him that his faith is a myth, and that what he has been taught is a lie. > Once upon a time Yama, the god of death, fell in love with > a mortal woman. He disguised himself as a mortal man [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > the young man to their daughter and the couple lived happily > to a ripe old age. >I *would* have a problem if you told him that his faith is a myth, and >that what he has been taught is a lie. Well, I wouldn't do that, but certainly kids have told other kids that (mostly Christians, btw). Or they tell Jewish kids that they have to believe in Jesus. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >> I *would* have a problem if you told him that his faith is a myth, >> and that what he has been taught is a lie. > > Well, I wouldn't do that, but certainly kids have told other kids > that (mostly Christians, btw). Or they tell Jewish kids that they > have to believe in Jesus. This reminds me of a Family Law episode where two parents are fighting a bitter battle over custody of their only daughter. Mother is jewish, father christian. When they married, religion wasn't an issue, but later on it became one. Father sends his daughter to a christian school where they teach her her mother is going to hell for not being christian and the mother forbids her to play with her friends on Sabbath, etc. It gets very ugly, but the script is an excellent example of clashing religions etc. SignatureMo >>> I *would* have a problem if you told him that his faith is a myth, >>> and that what he has been taught is a lie. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > mother forbids her to play with her friends on Sabbath, etc. It gets very > ugly, but the script is an excellent example of clashing religions etc. This is actualy why many churches recomend marrying people "equaly yolked" Because if they dont agree on the basics like what they believe then how do you agree on other things. Religous beliefs are often link to how you raise your children and interact with other people. Tori > We found a nursery school for dgd for September. Fabulous! It sounds a lot like our preschool, which G. will attend next year as well. > It's too Christian for me, but what can I do, we are in the > Bible belt. <g> Are you sure it's as religious as it appears? We have a church affiliated preschool (I chair the oversight board), but our policy is that the religious mission of the preschool is providing support to the whole community (regardless of religion or lack thereof) rather than converting the masses. We do have "chapel" once a month or so, and the kids say grace before snack, but those are kept low key and ecumenical as possible, and there isn't any other religious content (and we have lots of non-Christian kids in the school). Lots of people arrive to check out the school believing that it will be more religious than it is. Of course, especially in the Bible Belt it may well be very Christian. When we were hiring a new director last year, it was tough finding someone with experience with church run preschools (helpful to have the experience dealing with the church structure--it can be a royal pain) who didn't want to make the school "more religious." Anyway, here's hoping the religious aspects are low key enough that they don't pose too much of a problem for you all. Having a great preschool is a real blessing. We're excited for G. to go next year. She'll only be two years old, but she is so outgoing I think she'll have a blast. As an added bonus, she'll likely have a neighborhood friend as her teacher. Is the school NAEYC accredited? I heard that the number of accredited church affiliated preschools with 2yo programs is very small (like, exactly 1 of them in the US as of a few months ago, and likely a couple more by now). Best wishes, Ericka >Of course, especially in the Bible Belt it >may well be very Christian. When we were hiring [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >structure--it can be a royal pain) who didn't want >to make the school "more religious." So far every church school here is much more religious than the church school I taught in which welcomed all religions. This one takes the kids to chapel to hear the preacher tell Bible stories, but hopefully we can ask them not to take her to do that since the director takes them in small groups. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > This one takes the kids to chapel to hear the preacher > tell Bible stories, but hopefully we can ask them not > to take her to do that since the director takes them in > small groups. Although the chapel in our preschool is very low key (more along the lines of "some higher being loves you" than anything more specific), we do offer to concerned parents that the child need not be brought to chapel. Also, the parents are welcome to come and sit with the child for the once-a-month chapel (so the parents know what's been said and can deal with it however they please). That might be another tact if your preschool can't or won't allow your DGD not to attend chapel (since they might be too short-staffed to not have your DGD in chapel). Best wishes, Ericka >> We found a nursery school for dgd for September. > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka There's three of them in my immediate area, my dad works at one. >> Is the school NAEYC accredited? I heard that >>the number of accredited church affiliated preschools [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > There's three of them in my immediate area, my dad works at one. Church run, with accredited 2yo programs? When we talked to the NAEYC folks about accrediting our 2yo program a few months ago, they were the ones who told us that there was only one other church run NAEYC accredited 2yo program in the country. That person may have been misinformed, of course. Best wishes, Ericka >>> Is the school NAEYC accredited? I heard that >>>the number of accredited church affiliated preschools [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Best wishes, >Ericka There is a searchable database online for NAEYC accredited centers now. It looks like there some church one runs in Texas though I don't know if they have two year old programs. http://www.naeyc.org/accreditation/search/state.asp?state=TX Steppingstone Preschool First United Methodist Church First Christian Church Preschool Timber Ridge Presbyterian Children's School The Early Learning Program of The Woodlands Presbytrn Church Children of The Woodlands Methodist Weekday School Saint Laurence Parish Weekday Childrens Program Apple Tree School First Presbyterian Church University Presbyterian Children's Center -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits > There is a searchable database online for NAEYC accredited > centers now. > > It looks like there some church one runs in Texas > though I don't know if they have two year old programs. Yeah, it's the 2yo program that's the kicker-- there aren't a whole lot of them, and apparently the new standards/process for accreditation for a 2yo program is...challenging. Best wishes, Ericka > Yeah, it's the 2yo program that's the kicker-- >there aren't a whole lot of them, and apparently the >new standards/process for accreditation for a 2yo >program is...challenging. NAEYC's whole accreditation process is challenging. I went through it at a large YMCA program and it takes a lot of teacher time and parent feedback as well as the visits by the accrediting judges. The visits were very backlogged and the center did not reaccredit because they could not get someone to schedule a visit after that first time. Might have redone it now, but when I left they were simply waiting for the visits to finish up. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >> Yeah, it's the 2yo program that's the kicker-- >>there aren't a whole lot of them, and apparently the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > first time. Might have redone it now, but when I left they > were simply waiting for the visits to finish up. They got horribly behind on their visits and actually gave blanket extensions to large classes of sites because they couldn't do the re-accreditation visits before their accreditation was to lapse. They have been working on overhauling their accreditation system to make it work more smoothly--and apparently they are now paying the former volunteers involved in doing some of the assessments. That should help significantly. And yes, it is a long and painful process no matter what age group, but my understanding is that demonstrating you're meeting the requirements for a 2yo program is particularly challenging the way things are currently set up. Best wishes, Ericka >>> Is the school NAEYC accredited? I heard that >>>the number of accredited church affiliated preschools [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka They're sponsered by the Church yes, and one is based out of it. It doesn't surprise me much that they wouldn't be listed. > They're sponsered by the Church yes, and one is based out of it. But with 2yo programs? > It doesn't surprise me much that they wouldn't be listed. Why? NAEYC certainly lists a whole lot of church run preschools (ours included) on it's searchable list of accredited preschools. It just doesn't mention whether any of these programs have 2yo programs, which is why I can't independently double check what the NAEYC person told us. Best wishes, Ericka >> They're sponsered by the Church yes, and one is based out of it. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Best wishes, > Ericka I have no idea why Ericka, all I know is that one of the Churches here sponsers one, my father is a teacher there. They have kids from ages around 6mos, and into high school. It's a private school that's funded by both the church and the parents of the teachers. Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. >>> They're sponsered by the Church yes, and one is based out of it. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > around 6mos, and into high school. It's a private school that's funded by > both the church and the parents of the teachers. Ummm...parents of the students. Typo. LOL > Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I > can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. >>They have kids from ages >>around 6mos, and into high school. It's a private school that's funded by >>both the church and the parents of the teachers. > > Ummm...parents of the students. Typo. LOL Wouldn't that be amusing...parents subsidizing their grown kids' salaries ;-) Oh, and if they have kids from 6mos to high school, perhaps only part of the program is accredited by NAEYC. Actually, I would think that likely, as I don't think that NAEYC accredits anything beyond kindergarten age. Best wishes, Ericka > Oh, and if they have kids from 6mos to high school, >perhaps only part of the program is accredited by NAEYC. >Actually, I would think that likely, as I don't think that >NAEYC accredits anything beyond kindergarten age. After school and school age programs would not be accredited by NAEYC, that is correct. They might be accredited by a different agency or organization. And, considering how much work a NAEYC accreditation is, I would doubt any school would bother if they had another agency that accredited the whole school. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>They're sponsered by the Church yes, and one is based out of it. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I > can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. I'm confused. I don't know that the school isn't in the database, as I don't know the name of the school. I would *expect* that if it is NAEYC accredited that it is in the database, as that is part of the service. If you claim NAEYC accreditation, people should be able to double check that on the NAEYC website, with the assumption being that if you're claiming accreditation and you're not on the website, you might be lying about accreditation. I think preschools would be up in arms if that were the case! I know we'd be pretty upset if our school wasn't listed as accredited, just as we'd have a fit at my company if our registrar didn't have us listed on the official searchable site of ISO 9001 certified companies. That's part of the service we're paying for with accreditation! It's a royal PITA to go through the accreditation process. To go through all that and then have parents not be able to independently verify accreditation would be unacceptable. My only question is whether the NAEYC person we talked to was incorrect in tellling us that there were very few NAEYC accredited church run preschools with programs for two year olds. Best wishes, Ericka Best wishes, Ericka >Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I >can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. If it isn't in their database, then it's not NAEYC accredited. It exists, but that just means NAEYC never visited and accredited the school. NAEYC's process is year long, involves feedback from parents, teacher evaluation of their own classroom (strengths and weaknesses). It involves accreditors coming out and observing classrooms as well. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I >>can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > weaknesses). It involves accreditors coming out and observing > classrooms as well. Then I must be confusing it with something else, because as far as I know, there are several excellent schools around here that cover those age groups mentioned. >Then I must be confusing it with something else, because as far as I know, >there are several excellent schools around here that cover those age >groups mentioned. There are several other accrediting agencies besides NAEYC but NAEYC is the one that does most preschools and daycares that bother with accreditation. A regular private school would probably be accredited by some other agency if they were accredited at all. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >>>Just because it's not in their database doesn't mean they don't exist. I >>>can't believe that they'd have all of them anyway. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > there are several excellent schools around here that cover those age > groups mentioned. Well, one can have an excellent school without it being NAEYC accredited. It's completely up to the school whether to go through the expense and hassle of becoming accredited. Best wishes, Ericka > Is the school NAEYC accredited? I heard that >the number of accredited church affiliated preschools >with 2yo programs is very small (like, exactly 1 of >them in the US as of a few months ago, and likely >a couple more by now). No, it's not NAEYC accredited. But very few preschools in the area are. Btw, she will be 3, not 2 when she attends. They do have an infant, a toddler and a 2 y o program though. As for the accreditation, there are other organizations that do accreditation and more Christian preschools use those than use NAEYC, I suspect since some of them are specifically for Christian schools. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits >We found a nursery school for dgd for September. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >will probably be ready to go for a few days at 2, I >suspect. Glad you found one that is acceptable. Free Spirit DD(8) DS(11) > We found a nursery school for dgd for September. How wonderful :-)! Sounds like a great place for dgd, hope you'll get to sub there :-). They'd be lucky to have you! SignatureMo |
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