Family Forum / Parenting / Mothers / March 2005

Ah, this is so typical of kids.  My 5 year old still does things she's
been told not to, and it can be pretty frustrating.

Well, I wouldn't spank.  It doesn't seem to be working for you,
either.
My 5 year old has to sit in a chair if I find myself having to count
to 3 when she won't listen.  It's an on-going process and not likely
to resolve itself overnight.
How about removing some of her toys, or putting her in time-out?
Keep things she keeps getting into (ex:  the sugar) out of her reach
so it's a non-issue.

Nan

welcome to motherhood.

you have an active child... maybe creating more outdoor activities
might help.

give her her own keyboard, that type of thing.

i am not to crash hot with these myself.. My almost 3 yo is and
*extremely* active child, who drives me to dispair... though he has
started to listen to dh, since he uses his cane to catch him.. lol.

Michelle

--
If a man does not keep pace with his companions,
perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.
Let him step to the music he hears, however measured
or far away.

- Henry David Thoreau

It is doubtful that she is any more stubborn than many other three
year olds.  So first, do NOT label her as the stubborn kid.

Testing limits is *normal* and at 3 and 4, she needs as much
control of her world as you can give her.

Was there any reason why she could not have the yogurt?  Yogurt
is a nutritious food and if she was hungry for a snack, why not allow
this?

For this age, tell her what she can do not what she cannot do.  No
is simply a challenge.  Save it for the behavior that is dangerous
and say no very little otherwise.

Also, keep track of whether or not you *are* letting her finish
whatever it was she got out.

And, remember that when you chase her, she thinks it is a game.
Three year olds love to be chased.  You may want to play chase
games with her when she is doing things you want her to do and
not when she is disobeying.

Is there any real reason she cannot sit in the chair?  Any reason
why she cannot type on the computer?

My dgd who is 2 1/2 types on the computer.  We just put up a word
processor and make the font large and she types away.  There is
no reason for her not to sit in the computer chair unless it is likely
that she would fall off it.

Neither of these is working for you and I don't really think they
will.  Why not put the sugar up so high that she cannot reach it?

Also, give her plenty of opportunities to play with sand or other
messy things so she won't want the sugar.  Use some substitute
she can play with.

Probably so.   At 4, even if she knows, she probably hasn't the
language to tell you the reasons because they are unconscious.

Note that it isn't working...  Punishment usually does not work very
well because if one behavior is suppressed by it another will rear
its head.  

You need to change your attitude towards parenting really.  

First, accept that your child is not simply being defiant out of some
stubbornness or badness.  Accept that she wants to please you,
but cannot always control her impulses.  

Redirect her so that the need she is meeting gets met in ways
that are acceptable to you.   As I mentioned for the sugar, she
just wants to be messy with it probably and its attractive to play
with.  So get some sand and set up a place she can play with
that.  Try some art sand that she can sprinkle on paper and glue
to make pictures.  Make sure she has plenty of opportunities to
play with playdoh, glue, paint, etc. under supervision.

Eliminate the word *no* except for things that are dangerous.
Tell her what she can do, not what she cannot do.  If she cannot
have the yogurt, what is she allowed to have for a snack at that
time?  Say *you can have a piece of apple* perhaps instead of
*put the yogurt back*.   If she is just enjoying opening and closing
the lids, get her some containers with lids and say, you can put
your beads or buttons in here and open and close them.   If she
wants to play on the computer, teach her how to put up the word
processor or a game all by herself that she is allowed to play.

Good luck.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

    Your daughter sounds perfectly normal to me, not that
normal toddler/preschool behavior isn't frustrating.  A few
things come to mind:

- Try to reserve saying "no" for when it's *really* necessary.
  If you're saying "no" all the time, it's very frustrating for
  a child and they  just start to tune it out.  If need be, do
  some more childproofing.  If the sugar thing is driving you
  crazy, put it up.  There will be plenty of other ways to teach
  her to stay out of things without leaving something accessible
  that is just going to drive your blood pressure through the roof.

- Make sure she's getting lots of good time to do active things,
  preferably outside.  It's natural for her to want to run and
  climb and chase, so you need to give her acceptable times and
  places to do those things.

- Once you've pared down your list of "nos" to the absolute
  minimum, *never* fail to follow through.  Give one warning,
  and if it doesn't work, physically stop the situation (e.g.,
  if you're going to fall on your sword over the computer chair
  issue, then after *ONE* and only one request not to get in the
  chair, get up and physically pick her up and move her to
  another location/activity).  Every single time you keep repeating
  "no" while she continues on her merry way, every single time
  you say "no" and don't follow through, every single time you
  say "no" and end up playing chase, you have taught her that she
  doesn't need to take your "no" seriously.  The "nos" have to be
  rare, consistent, and consistently enforced.  I don't think
  spanking does a bit of good with this sort of thing.  Time outs
  might work, but if you want to go that route, you might look into
  Swihart and Cotter's Stop-Pause-Redirect method (described in their
  book _The Manipulative Child_) for some more details.  How you
  handle the details of the situation is important if you want it
  to be successful.  It is hard work to be this consistent.  My
  experience is that most people fall down on the job by continually
  hollering "NO!" from across the room as the child continues on her
  way doing whatever she's not supposed to do.  You *MUST* stop
  what you're doing and follow through in a hands on way if you want
  to have any effect.  This is another really good reason to pare
  the "nos" down to a manageable level ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Er....troll much lately?