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someone explain this?

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Caroline - 25 Nov 2005 01:04 GMT
we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault because
I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry been a long night and in really bad mood right now!

Caroline

Thanks for letting me vent
just me - 25 Nov 2005 01:07 GMT
Caroline mentioned in passing :

> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault
> because I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't
> TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry been a long night and in really bad
> mood right now!

vent away.  you ok?  how's your car?  I am confused, though, because I'd
always heard that if you rear-end someone it is your fault, end of story.
Guess something changed?

-Aula

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People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing
their own soul. - Carl G. Jung

Knit Chic - 25 Nov 2005 01:47 GMT
> Caroline mentioned in passing :
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> vent away.  you ok?  how's your car?  I am confused, though, because I'd
> always heard that if you rear-end someone it is your fault, end of story.

Nope, not always.  But a lot of people think that.  I will say that is true
most of the time, but after processing thousands of claims (former job) I
have found that there is no hard and fast rule.
From personal experience, I was RE'ed on a freeway onramp and was 100% not
at fault, the other driver was distracted by the prisoner they were caring
in their van.
Because it was an FBI agent, my ins had to pay out 100% of the claim.  (you
can thank Bush Sr. for that little law, saying that when an FBI agent as an
accident it is NEVER their fault.  No ticket was issued.

> Guess something changed?
>
> -Aula
Leanne - 25 Nov 2005 02:36 GMT
> Nope, not always.  But a lot of people think that.  I will say that is
> true
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> (you can thank Bush Sr. for that little law, saying that when an FBI agent
> as an accident it is NEVER their fault.  No ticket was issued.

it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its your
fault, the law pretty much says if your too close to stop, your fault.
Knit Chic - 25 Nov 2005 03:04 GMT
>> Nope, not always.  But a lot of people think that.  I will say that is
>> true
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its your
> fault, the law pretty much says if your too close to stop, your fault.

Are you in the US?  can you state the code for that?
in EVERY case? ... every time? ... check it out .. i happen to know what i'm
talking about.
There are a lot of things that ppl think are laws, when they are not.  I
have heard it thousands of times, most every day I was at work.
btw, this has nothing to do w/ the OP, I have no idea about that.
anyway, if you can state the code for it .. i would be happy to read it.
Leanne - 25 Nov 2005 03:25 GMT
>> it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its your
>> fault, the law pretty much says if your too close to stop, your fault.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> btw, this has nothing to do w/ the OP, I have no idea about that.
> anyway, if you can state the code for it .. i would be happy to read it.

nope I'm not from the US, which is why I said it could be different where
you are, care to read the post again?

> oh .. and I guess what I posted that happened to me was a lie?
> what ever .. not worth my time ......
> /sigh

Never said that either, read again and stop jumping on people.
Knit Chic - 25 Nov 2005 00:07 GMT
>>> it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its
>>> your
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Never said that either, read again and stop jumping on people.

you didn't say were you were from, that's why I asked if you are in the US.
Knit Chic - 29 Nov 2005 16:26 GMT
>>> it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its
>>> your
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Never said that either, read again and stop jumping on people.

I'm sorry I was so bitchy ... I shouldn't have been.
toto - 25 Nov 2005 03:34 GMT
>Are you in the US?  can you state the code for that?
>in EVERY case? ... every time? ... check it out .. i happen to know what i'm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>btw, this has nothing to do w/ the OP, I have no idea about that.
>anyway, if you can state the code for it .. i would be happy to read it.

Obviously, they can't state the code because there are defenses
against this.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/car-accidents/driver-error.html

Rear-End Collisions

In most jurisdictions, a driver who rear-ends another car is
presumed to have caused the accident. In most cases, that
presumption is correct: The driver at the rear follows too
closely, or doesn't pay attention to what is going on in the
road in front of his car, and doesn't take notice that another
car has stopped or slowed in front of him until it is too late
to avoid collision. In higher speed rear-end collisions
involving a line of cars, such as cars stopped at a traffic
light, you may see the initial collision propel the stopped
cars into each other, such that three, four, or even more
cars become involved.

The most common defense to a charge of negligence
arising from a rear-end collision is the sudden emergency
- that is, a claim that the car that was hit stopped suddenly
and unexpectedly, or that something sudden and
unexpected (e.g., a truck losing its load) caused that car
to come to a sudden stop, rendering the collision
unavoidable. Where one or more cars are able to stop
in reaction to a claimed sudden emergency, it is more
difficult to make this claim - "If they could stop, why
couldn't you?"

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
Knit Chic - 25 Nov 2005 00:12 GMT
>>Are you in the US?  can you state the code for that?
>>in EVERY case? ... every time? ... check it out .. i happen to know what
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Obviously, they can't state the code because there are defenses
> against this.

Exactly my point .. there is no code for it ... but many many many ppl think
that it's always the RE'er's fault.  My point that it is not *always* the
RE'er's fault.
I got so sick of "He RE'ed ME!  It's not my fault"  I would hear that from
Insd. every day.  Another misconception is that he who receives a ticket, is
at fault.  That one isn't correct either, but a lot of people think it.
But again, this has nothing to do the w/ the OP's issue.  I know nothing
about that one.

> http://www.expertlaw.com/library/car-accidents/driver-error.html
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> The Outer Limits
Kara H - 25 Nov 2005 04:07 GMT
> Obviously, they can't state the code because there are defenses
> against this.

Dorothy (bear with me here!),
   I was in a very minor accident right where the red star is on this map
(http://tinyurl.com/aoo74 - zoom in all the way). I was headed north east on
Madison Rd. and veered east towards Observatory Ave. (where the east-bound
arrows are). There is a yield sign right at the red star. The car in front
of me stopped at the yield sign and then proceeded. I checked again to make
sure the car in front of me had gone and that there were no cars coming
southbound from Dana Ave. and then I, too, proceeded. As I looked up, the
car in front of me accelerated VERY quickly and then suddenly slammed on its
brakes and began making a u-turn (it was obvious that the driver was
attempting to read street signs at the yield) with no turn signal or any
indications. Before it was even clear WHAT was happening, I had attempted to
swerve but barely clipped the rear of the guy in front of me. The girl
behind me then rear-ended me. It was quite an odd situation because a state
trooper happened to be driving by just following the incident. I don't think
we would have called the police otherwise. Of course he called for the
police. The guy in front of me barely had a scratch and my only issue in the
front was a cracked turn signal and small dent below it. The guy in front of
me knew that what he was attempting to do was illegal and knew that he was
at fault in that sense. He did, however, have the nerve to ask me about
where a certain street was because he didn't know where he was going
(evidence that he was lost, again)!! Oddly enough, he didn't even get my
insurance information because he said he would take care of it himself b/c
it wasn't much and he apologized a million times and blah blah blah.  I
don't think either of us were aware that you didn't HAVE to file a claim,
though. This then meant that I had to go to court (I was under 18) and
received a ticket as well as hiked-up insurance. It was quite a bizarre
situation because as soon as the cop was finished with the guy in front of
me he went to the first driveway and turned around and sped off (confirming
the fact that he was going the wrong way). Now, I completely understand the
whole issue about leaving enough space to stop though in my case it really
became a null issue because there was no way to know what he was going to do
with watching for oncoming traffic at the yield sign and the accelerating,
etc. I can live with taking responsibility for that, though. HOWEVER, I
think that the fact that he was, without a doubt, attempting to make a
u-turn in the middle of the road should have been taken into consideration
at this point. Any attempts I made to discuss this with the cop were ignored
despite me being completely respectful and civilized. Now, this could be an
issue of 17 year old teenager vs. old man driver and the cop just assuming
that I didn't know what I was doing. But, am I completely wrong to think
that the u-turn situation should have been explored? Even if it meant we
BOTH got cited. It's still frustrating to think about! Thoughts?

-Kara.

toto - 25 Nov 2005 04:14 GMT
>HOWEVER, I
>think that the fact that he was, without a doubt, attempting to make a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>that the u-turn situation should have been explored? Even if it meant we
>BOTH got cited. It's still frustrating to think about! Thoughts?

I would think that this might be a case where both drivers were at
fault at a minimum.  Was making a u-turn legal at that place in the
road?    I suspect you are correct that the issue could have been
explored though the presumption is that the driver who rear-ends
the car *is* at fault.  What about the insurance companies?  It seems
to me that your insurance company might have helped you in this
situation.

Also, I am sure that your age probably did count against you with
the policeman.  In general, adults seem to presume that teenagers
are too new to driving to be keeping track of everything they should
be watching.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits
Kara H - 25 Nov 2005 04:32 GMT
> I would think that this might be a case where both drivers were at
> fault at a minimum.  Was making a u-turn legal at that place in the
> road?

Yes, u-turns are illegal there. This is a relatively busy residential
street. It is my understanding that u-turns are illegal in Ohio, and this is
even more true if there are cars approaching in EITHER direction (as I was
approaching from the rear and there were cars headed towards us as well that
I believe he was trying to 'beat').

>I suspect you are correct that the issue could have been
> explored though the presumption is that the driver who rear-ends
> the car *is* at fault.  What about the insurance companies?  It seems
> to me that your insurance company might have helped you in this
> situation.

I was not allowed to work with the insurance company as the insurance is not
in my name. My premium rose because of the ticket ONLY because no damages
were claimed against my insurance (on my side or his)

> Also, I am sure that your age probably did count against you with
> the policeman.  In general, adults seem to presume that teenagers
> are too new to driving to be keeping track of everything they should
> be watching.

Yes, I think you are right. This logic always bemuses me a bit, though,
because many of this situations do NOT have to do with experience. I don't
think my situation would have ended any differently had I been driving for
20 years rather than almost 2 years. You know? That's not to say that a lot
of accidents involving teenagers DON'T have to do with lack of experience or
outside distractions.

-Kara.
Knit Chic - 25 Nov 2005 03:06 GMT
>> Nope, not always.  But a lot of people think that.  I will say that is
>> true
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> it could be different where you are, but here, if you RE someone its your
> fault, the law pretty much says if your too close to stop, your fault.

oh .. and I guess what I posted that happened to me was a lie?
what ever .. not worth my time ......
/sigh
Kara H - 25 Nov 2005 03:32 GMT
> oh .. and I guess what I posted that happened to me was a lie?
> what ever .. not worth my time ......
> /sigh

Eeep.

Kat, Leanne is in Aus and I don't think she was trying to offend you in any
way. She was just stating that where she is, the law says that it's your
fault if you rear-end someone. I have no doubt that you know what you are
talking about in OUR country but Leanne was saying that it depends on where
you live.  Nothing to get defensive about.

-K.
Leanne - 25 Nov 2005 03:44 GMT
> Eeep.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> -K.

Thats exactly what I meant, Thanks Kara.
Mamma Mia - 25 Nov 2005 04:14 GMT
>> oh .. and I guess what I posted that happened to me was a lie?
>> what ever .. not worth my time ......
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> -K.

ditto.

come on, lets all hug and be friends and have a happy friday post/

chris also in oz, where RE is always your fault
Caroline - 25 Nov 2005 19:12 GMT
no she was at fault just didnt' want to take responsibility... and we were
okay   car just has a 6 inch crack in bumper  easily fixed

Caroline

> Caroline mentioned in passing :
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> -Aula
Stara Baba - 27 Nov 2005 13:34 GMT
> no she was at fault just didnt' want to take responsibility... and we were
> okay   car just has a 6 inch crack in bumper  easily fixed
>
> Caroline

Let us know how much it costs to repair.   :-)
Easy ‚ Inexpensive.  :-(
Glad you're safe.
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Plissken - 25 Nov 2005 01:11 GMT
> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault
> because I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't
> TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry been a long night and in really bad mood
> right now!
>
> Caroline

Uh, who said it was your fault? Insurance company or the driver. I'm fairly
certain the person who rear ended you is at fault. If your insurance company
says otherwise get a lawyer or at least tell the insurance company you will
be hiring a lawyer.

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Kara H - 25 Nov 2005 04:10 GMT
> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault
> because I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't
> TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry been a long night and in really bad mood
> right now!

Uggggh! That's very frustrating, Caroline! I was wondering, though, who
found you to be at fault- the police officer? insurance? other driver?

Hang in there!
-K.
Caroline - 25 Nov 2005 19:15 GMT
driver tried to blame me...  we didn't have to put it through insurance

Caroline

>> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault
>> because I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Hang in there!
> -K.
Stara Baba - 27 Nov 2005 13:30 GMT
> driver tried to blame me...  we didn't have to put it through insurance
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > Hang in there!
> > -K.

LOL!!  So because the driver who hit you said it's your fault, you're
buying it?  

Tip for if you're ever involved in an accident:  Don't let the words,
"I'm so sorry" come from your lips.  A lawyer sees that as an admission
of guilt.   Say you want to exchange DL and insurance information,
decide if the police should be notified so a report is filed, ask how
the other driver's grandmother is feeling, but don't say "I'm sorry,"    
It's the natural "polite" thing to do -- don't.
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http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-23-05 - Potica !

Stara Baba - 27 Nov 2005 13:25 GMT
> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault because
> I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thanks for letting me vent

Who said it's your fault?  In MN, if I hit you from behind, it's my
fault.
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http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-23-05 - Potica !

Mermaid - 29 Nov 2005 00:53 GMT
> we had some snow tonight and I got rear-ended.  Yet it was my fault because
> I stopped too quickly.  WTF  maybe if you weren't TAILGATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thanks for letting me vent

Oh no!  Well... lets see... you have insurance and they don't?
 
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